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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two. Let's walk little.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Crutis is brought to you

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Speaker 2: by a Islamic business bank celebrating twenty years of banking

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Speaker 2: rooted in values is a registered FSP. Good evening, I'm

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Speaker 2: Stephen Croutis, Welcome to the program. Eight minutes after six

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Speaker 2: the time. A bit of corporate news today, but everything's

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Speaker 2: still really in waiting and dissipay shin, I believe as

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Speaker 2: the joke obviously, waiting to see what happens with oil prices,

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Speaker 2: with the conflict in Iran, all of that situation can

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Speaker 2: have such a big impact on you, and we all

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Speaker 2: know this. We'll talk a little later in fact about

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Speaker 2: electric cars. If you go to so many other places,

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Speaker 2: if you just now sort of watch drama set in

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Speaker 2: New York or London, you'll see so many electric cars.

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Speaker 2: Beijing absolutely Here not so much. And I'm not entirely

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Speaker 2: sure why the takeup has been so slow. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know who we will blame, obviously, but you know

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Speaker 2: other things too. We're a much bigger country in terms

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Speaker 2: of sort of range than many other places, and I

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Speaker 2: think the big thing also is you buy one car

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Speaker 2: and you use it to go around every day, and

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Speaker 2: you use it for the sort of long family trip

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Speaker 2: to Poloqwani every weekend. And I think that really is

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Speaker 2: the issue, and that's where sort of electric cars fall down.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about that with Warren Tucket just before seven o'clock.

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Speaker 2: Before that, Francois Rousseau is the CEO of the Southern

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Speaker 2: African Agricultural Initiative, one of the groups that's gone to

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Speaker 2: court against the Minister, against the Ministry of Agriculture, essentially

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Speaker 2: saying that they should be allowed to import their own vaccines.

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Speaker 2: Were due to speak to the Agriculture Minister. John's Tina

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Speaker 2: Haysen too and get his response to that argument. So

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Speaker 2: all of that in the next couple of minutes. Liberty,

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Speaker 2: the insurance group, the investment group. You know, essentially they

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Speaker 2: say that they had a hack, they've taken sort of

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Speaker 2: steps to mitigate it. And the question I suppose rarely

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Speaker 2: is if they can have a hack, who can't I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's so well resourced. So yeah, simbathis to Sishi. We'll

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Speaker 2: talk about that in a moment, and we'll hear from

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Speaker 2: Timothy Walker about shipping around the coast. He's at the

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Speaker 2: ISS really watches shipping very very closely. But it does

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Speaker 2: seem lots of opportunity coming our way because more ships

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Speaker 2: are coming around here simply because of what's happening in

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Speaker 2: the Middle East. Good to hear from you O double

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Speaker 2: one double A three oh seven, O two two one

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Speaker 2: four four six oh five six seven and voice notes

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Speaker 2: as well, of course on seven two seven oh two

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Speaker 2: one seven oh two.

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Speaker 3: The Lney Show with Stephen Krudis live on ninety two

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Speaker 3: point seven and one O six FM, streaming on the

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Speaker 3: Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 1: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: Well are ruling from the Kha Teng High Court today

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Speaker 2: that an application by the group sake Lecha, the Southern

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Speaker 2: African agri Initiative and the Farmers Group Free State Agriculture

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Speaker 2: lacks urgency. It won't be heard immediately. The group say

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Speaker 2: government is blocking them from procuring their own foot and

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Speaker 2: mouth vaccines for their cattle. The Agriculture Department says it

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Speaker 2: has a duty to coordinate the response to the disease.

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Speaker 2: As you know, if you've tried to bry with beef lately,

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Speaker 2: those prices are about twelve percent over the last year

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Speaker 2: and more actually higher than that. At one point. We'll

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Speaker 2: hear from the Agriculture Minister in a moment. But first,

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Speaker 2: Francois Rousseau is the CEO of the Southern African Agricultural Initiative.

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Speaker 2: Francois good evening. Why did you go to court? What

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Speaker 2: do you believe government is doing that is incorrect?

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Speaker 4: Bike grieving Stephen, Yes, I first want to correct your

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Speaker 4: earlier course. I see you've only read the minister into

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Speaker 4: which is severely lacking. There was no ruling with regards

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Speaker 4: to urgency. In fact, the court ruled against the minister

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Speaker 4: with costs because it was They actually gave the Minister

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Speaker 4: a deadline in March to come back with a Section

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Speaker 4: teen application to show how is he going to remedy.

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Speaker 4: We went to court to find that what in the

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Speaker 4: current regulations or the current scheme is there that is

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Speaker 4: preventing farmers from donating and procuring their own vaccines. Because

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Speaker 4: the only impediment at the moment is the minister himself.

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Speaker 2: What is the minister doing that's the problem? I mean,

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Speaker 2: are you suggesting he is not moving quickly enough?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, not just that, but currently farmers cannot administer vaccines themselves,

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Speaker 4: and they cannot procure it from the private importers that

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Speaker 4: the minister himself is using at the moment. So the

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Speaker 4: minister is centralizing the whole value chain when it comes

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Speaker 4: to vaccine procurement and dispersing of these vaccines. So all

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Speaker 4: the vaccines that are coming into the country must be

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Speaker 4: sent to honest the poor biological products defunct State and Enterprise,

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Speaker 4: which has been severely lacking in the last twenty years

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Speaker 4: with regards to its production and its sale of vaccines.

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Speaker 4: And then from the state the sites which farmers get

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Speaker 4: vaccines and which don't.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I can imagine as a farmer that would be

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Speaker 2: very distressing. Do you accept that government may have a

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Speaker 2: duty to regulate vaccines? I mean, can you imagine a

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Speaker 2: situation where there's no coordination? And I think I think

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Speaker 2: this is government's argument, we have to coordinate. But can

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Speaker 2: you imagine if they didn't. I mean, wouldn't different farmers

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Speaker 2: using different vaccines be a problem? It might actually make

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Speaker 2: it easier for the disease to spread over the longer term.

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Speaker 4: No, no, Stephen, The problem is we have to get

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Speaker 4: her immunity as soon as possible, and in order to

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Speaker 4: do that, we need to vaccinate the national herd before

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Speaker 4: the end of the year, and we need to vaccinate

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Speaker 4: at the minimum eighty percent of the national herd for

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Speaker 4: her immunity to stick. The only way we can do

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Speaker 4: that is to get vaccines on mass into the country

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Speaker 4: and let farmers vaccinate. We do not have enough state veterinarians,

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Speaker 4: We do not have enough private veterinarians or the farmers

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Speaker 4: who have the funds to pay those veterinarians to vaccinate,

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Speaker 4: so they themselves must vaccinate. The only reason why vaccines

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Speaker 4: will come into the country that are not allowed, and

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Speaker 4: that's not what we're advocating for. We see it approved

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Speaker 4: by Supra and from necessary suppliers. But the only reason

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Speaker 4: that the vaccines that enter the country which are not regulated,

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Speaker 4: the only reason why they are coming in here is

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Speaker 4: because the minister has created the black market, and he

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Speaker 4: created the black market because it cannot supply enough vaccines

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Speaker 4: to the country. You would remember that he promised that IARC,

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Speaker 4: which produced twelve nine hundred vaccines almost a month ago,

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Speaker 4: will produce weekly. They've only produced that one batch and

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Speaker 4: they haven't produced after that. He said that there would

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Speaker 4: be five million and six million vaccines coming in in

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Speaker 4: the middle of March. That also has not occurred. And

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Speaker 4: that's because it keeps on with this obsession of centralizing

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Speaker 4: vaccine control. We are already vaccinating against diseases, animal diseases

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Speaker 4: which are state controlled, like brucellosis. Why can we not

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Speaker 4: do it for foot and mouth disease?

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Speaker 2: France Arroussop, thank you so much. The CEO of the

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Speaker 2: Southern African Agricultural Initiative, Well, John Stienhaesen is the Minister

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Speaker 2: of Agriculture, he joins me. Now John, good evening to you, Minister,

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Speaker 2: excuse me, good evening to you. Thank you for your time.

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Speaker 2: If I was a farmer and I could see my

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Speaker 2: herd of cattle, my family's entire savings was in danger,

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Speaker 2: I would want to get them vaccinated as quickly as possible.

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Speaker 2: Why are you insisting on state control here?

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Speaker 5: It's not me consisting insisting on its, Stephen. It's the

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Speaker 5: regulations and the law requiring state control diseases, particularly those

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Speaker 5: using vaccines that are not registered for use from South Africa,

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Speaker 5: to be managed by veterinarians. We've already made it very

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Speaker 5: clear that private vetinarians of private animal health technicians can

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Speaker 5: assist in this, and we've had hundreds of these vets

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Speaker 5: and animal health technicians registering to assist. The reality is

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Speaker 5: the vaccines, the Dolvat vaccine, the bar Genesis Bago vaccine,

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Speaker 5: and the Botswana vaccine are not registered for use in

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Speaker 5: South Africa, which is why they have to go through

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Speaker 5: a Section twenty one process for the importation. All other

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Speaker 5: remedies are done through Act thirty six. And I've heard

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Speaker 5: that your previous interview is going on about the fact

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Speaker 5: that farmers can vaccinate for those diseases. Yes they can

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Speaker 5: because those remedies are registered vaccines in terms of Act

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Speaker 5: thirty six in the country. The FMD vaccines are not

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Speaker 5: registered and imported under emergency situations like we did with

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Speaker 5: the COVID vaccines. And that's while they require, as the

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Speaker 5: COVID vaccines did, only implementation by registered veterinarians, whether they

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Speaker 5: be private or public.

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Speaker 2: Okay, if that's the case, and I accept what you say.

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Speaker 2: The real reason for all of this is, as the

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Speaker 2: farmer has put it, things are not moving quickly enough.

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Speaker 2: The vaccine, the doses are here, but they're not getting them,

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Speaker 2: and isn't that really the fundamental problem.

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Speaker 5: Simply that's simply not true, Stephen. There's been millions of

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Speaker 5: vaccines rolled out since the beginning of this year. We

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Speaker 5: vaccinated two million in the last quarter of last year.

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Speaker 5: And as the vaccine starts arrive now from bi Genesis

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Speaker 5: Bago and Dolvett We've already approved now and have got

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Speaker 5: the sarpro approval for six million vaccines from dolvette from Turkey,

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Speaker 5: and we are importing another one point five million from

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Speaker 5: Bigenesis Bago awaiting a bigger order of five million. The

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Speaker 5: vaccines are rolling out, and they're rolling out at an

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Speaker 5: incredibly fast pace around the country according to the vaccination

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Speaker 5: strategy that we have already publicly released that focuses on

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Speaker 5: the priority areas where the disease is at its a

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Speaker 5: peak and where it is the most virulent. That is

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Speaker 5: how you do these things. Obviously, the more vaccines that areouved,

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Speaker 5: the foster we'll be able to vaccinate. But we're well

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Speaker 5: on back to meet our vaccination target of eighty percent

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Speaker 5: of the national herd by December.

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Speaker 2: If a farmer could procure exactly the same thing from

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Speaker 2: exactly the same person government is getting it from what

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Speaker 2: would be the harm in letting them procure it.

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Speaker 5: Well, this is not a registered medicine, Stephen. It's the

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Speaker 5: same as importing illegal medication from outside of the borders.

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Speaker 5: And we've already seen the negative effects of what happens

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Speaker 5: when you allow the type of vaccine free for all

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Speaker 5: that these applicants aren't visaging. During the course of the

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Speaker 5: Core Last Courts of last year, some farmers took it

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Speaker 5: upon themselves to import vaccines from Kenya and to administer

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Speaker 5: into these animals. They have now potentially introduced strains of

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Speaker 5: the F and D vaccine which we do not have

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Speaker 5: in South Africa, the O and A strains, and that

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Speaker 5: obviously complicate the fight against foot and out disease. And

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Speaker 5: that is why this has to remain something that is

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Speaker 5: overseen by the state.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 5: Obviously private veterinarians and private animal health technicians and others

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Speaker 5: in the sector are integral to the rollout. But what

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Speaker 5: we can't do is allow the vaccine free for all,

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Speaker 5: where anybody can walk in and get a vaccine. The

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Speaker 5: same applies with flu vaccines, Stephen. You cannot go to

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Speaker 5: your local pharmacy pass flu vaccines and take them home

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Speaker 5: and administer them to your family. They have to be

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Speaker 5: administered by a health professional. It's also important because the

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Speaker 5: whole reason that we're embarking upon this mass vaccination strategy

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Speaker 5: is to get our states has changed with the World's

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Speaker 5: Organization of Animal Health. To do that, you have to

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Speaker 5: demonstrate this government that you've been in control of a process,

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Speaker 5: that you have the data to back up your vaccination,

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Speaker 5: that you have the data to back up the epidemiology,

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Speaker 5: so that we can get FMD free status with vaccination,

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Speaker 5: which will then open up ninety four countries around the

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Speaker 5: world for US to resume trade with that has been

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Speaker 5: closed for twenty years. If you don't have that monitoring

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Speaker 5: and surveillance and that control, it's going to make obtaining

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Speaker 5: that status incredibly difficult.

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Speaker 2: John Stienhaysen, thank you very much. Indeed, Minister of Agriculture,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know if it's relevant, but I should

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Speaker 2: probably mention that he is also the leader of the DA.

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Speaker 2: Well your thoughts on that seven two seven oh two

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Speaker 2: one seven oh two. I have bought strong arguments both ways.

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Speaker 2: Just gone twenty minutes after six that's on the Money

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Speaker 2: Show six to eight pm. Well, the Investment and insurance

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Speaker 2: provide a. Liberty, the latest institution to be hit by

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Speaker 2: data hacks, warned its customers some of its data systems

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Speaker 2: have been hacked. You can imagine the value of that situation,

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Speaker 2: of that information rather. Sibasis Cishi is a cyber security

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Speaker 2: analyst director at iron Sky South Africa A SIBS saw

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Speaker 2: good evening, thanks for your time again, We've had so

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Speaker 2: many of these attacks.

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Speaker 7: Now.

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Speaker 2: Liberty a well resourced company, a company I'm sure take

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Speaker 2: cybersecurity very seriously, and yet it still gets hacked. I

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Speaker 2: mean this shows you how sophisticated these people really are.

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Speaker 8: Hi, Stephen, and good evening to the viewers as well.

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Speaker 8: And most definitely the hecks are getting more and more

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Speaker 8: brazen and they and they're extracting a lot more information

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Speaker 8: in recent paths. I don't know if you if you

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Speaker 8: saw it, that's a few I think last week the

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Speaker 8: titill houting provincial governments also potentially suffered a breach. Of course,

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Speaker 8: the chabauts worth of data leaving their environments. So SOFOAKA

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Speaker 8: is technically on the targets for these ransomware groups and

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Speaker 8: they are really and they really are upgrading within the

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Speaker 8: orders to extract cognize information from our systems.

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Speaker 2: If a company, even a company as well resourced as Liberty,

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Speaker 2: does everything it can to prevent a hack, can it

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Speaker 2: still be vulnerable? I suppose? Is what I'm rarely asking

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Speaker 2: is can a company make absolutely certain that their systems

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Speaker 2: can't be breached like this?

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Speaker 8: And the only way that a company could ever say

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Speaker 8: that there as a person secure is if nobody gets

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Speaker 8: access to any sort of data, which is kind of impossible.

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Speaker 8: There's a there's a balance between security and usability, And

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Speaker 8: unfortunately for a lot of businesses, especially of the systems

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Speaker 8: of like the Liberty. You know, they've got a lot

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Speaker 8: of client facing systems, I've got a lot of systems

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Speaker 8: that they're on internal staff use. So it's ritally impossible

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Speaker 8: to to to bypically say that you're going to bee

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Speaker 8: hundred percent off or you're going to be one hundred

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Speaker 8: percent protected against against any sort of breach. The best

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Speaker 8: that you can do is just to limit it as

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Speaker 8: much as you can and basically be on the point

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Speaker 8: if something does happen to to basically lets an amount

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Speaker 8: of time that an attacker has got time to exploit

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Speaker 8: intermature out from your systems.

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Speaker 2: So, I mean, it's interesting that because the Liberty CEO

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Speaker 2: yurashmahar I said yesterday they took steps to mitigate to

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Speaker 2: contain the impact of the breach. When you've been hacked,

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Speaker 2: what what can you do to limit the damage?

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Speaker 8: So it kind of depends on kind of what kind

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Speaker 8: of heck. So there's different variations and variations where people

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Speaker 8: just extract information up in the systems and then they

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Speaker 8: leave the systems intacked. Others other sort of heck. They

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Speaker 8: basically they basically just they deface your environment, they deface

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Speaker 8: your your websites. That's normally on the lower end. But

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Speaker 8: what happened with Liberty is there seems like they extracted

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Speaker 8: a lot of personal information out from the systems, which

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Speaker 8: makes it very hard now because now the hackers have

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Speaker 8: got access to this information that could and they could

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Speaker 8: share it with whether and wherever they sort of want.

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Speaker 8: So it sort of really does make it really really hard.

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Speaker 2: What Liberty did do, which I was pleased about, was

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Speaker 2: they went public with it. I'm sure there's some companies

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Speaker 2: that haven't when this has happened.

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Speaker 8: Very unfortunately, yes, because there is a price to pay now,

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Speaker 8: So I think especially with the Information regulator. You know,

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Speaker 8: they really want to know when when when these breaches happen.

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Speaker 8: And I don't know if you have noticed that people

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Speaker 8: like the top price of Liberty did kind of drop

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Speaker 8: a bit. So it does have a dynamic. It does

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Speaker 8: have a directive impact on people's trust on the brand

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Speaker 8: because now they're always going to view for it's always

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Speaker 8: going to be used autocult sis or radio discussion around.

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Speaker 8: You've been breached before, you know, so how can I

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Speaker 8: trust you with my data? So very unfortunately that at

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Speaker 8: the end of the day is that there's maally nothing

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Speaker 8: much that that organizations can do. That they can protect

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Speaker 8: the information as much as they can, but creatures are

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Speaker 8: going to happen. So it's just basically just to be

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Speaker 8: as pro active as you can in protecting your valmy.

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Speaker 2: So people might be a client of Liberty or a

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Speaker 2: client of someone else's been hacked. There might be the

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Speaker 2: people whose information was hacked from the partying provincial government. Uh,

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Speaker 2: you would probably never know, But how can you protect

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Speaker 2: yourself because now people would know so many things about you.

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Speaker 2: They would probably know you know your ID number, who

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Speaker 2: you're married to, your children's names, all of that kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff. I mean, it must make an individual like

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Speaker 2: you or I a lot more vulnerable.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, So basically the only way that the users can

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Speaker 8: do is just to use credit providers to just make

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Speaker 8: sure that no new there's somebody isn't trying to open

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Speaker 8: up an account under their name or using the information

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Speaker 8: that they've gotten from the breach. So you've got to

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Speaker 8: really take take really important steps and getting notifications around

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Speaker 8: your credit and if anybody's applied for credit under your name,

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Speaker 8: to act extremely quickly as something that happened. If you

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Speaker 8: get notification from the providers of TransUnion, Experience all those

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Speaker 8: companies that to call the to call the company that's

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Speaker 8: that's that is that's about to issue us credit and

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Speaker 8: just tell them that you didn't issue this. They are

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Speaker 8: are the beast that the user can do. Was unfortunately

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Speaker 8: that our the data is really out there and as

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Speaker 8: much as they have if the rents people they say

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Speaker 8: that all those delete it, that you've never really one

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Speaker 8: hundred percent show that they'll ever do that. So the

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Speaker 8: best thing you need to do as a user is

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Speaker 8: just to protect yourself. Apply for these services, get get

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Speaker 8: that monitoring on your on yourself, and then you know

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Speaker 8: and then work extremely foror thely when you get the

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Speaker 8: notification and.

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Speaker 2: She thanks very much, really appreciated. A cybersecurity analyst and

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Speaker 2: director at iron Sky South Africa. I mean, if you've

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Speaker 2: ever had a hack happened to you or your company,

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Speaker 2: I'd be glad to hear the story. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to name the company if you don't want, but just

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Speaker 2: you know how things played out. Oh seven two seven

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Speaker 2: oh two one seven two twenty six minutes after six

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Speaker 2: the Money Show the Market. Ryan Hill is the head

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Speaker 2: of fundamental Sales at Abscess cib Ryan good evening. Just

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Speaker 2: an overall picture. First, I got a sense that our

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Speaker 2: market and in fact international markets are just waiting to

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Speaker 2: see what happens the sort of all the hallmarks of

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Speaker 2: a market kind of lacking direction.

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Speaker 9: Bade Hard Belivening, Steven Definitely. I think what we're seeing

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Speaker 9: at the moment is that the initial optimism around is

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Speaker 9: being a quick and well I would say easy, but

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Speaker 9: certainly a sort of short shop conflict in an Iran

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Speaker 9: that certainly seems to be. I think we're losing hope

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Speaker 9: around rapid resolution, and you can see that markets are

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Speaker 9: starting to behave in a way that says.

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Speaker 8: Where there might be some more trouble coming.

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Speaker 9: And one of the ways in which you can see

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Speaker 9: that is the fact that you're seeing a lot more

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Speaker 9: buying activity happening in spaces that are considerably, considerably more defensive.

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Speaker 9: So for example, your talco's, your farmer companies, your food stocks,

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Speaker 9: et cetera, all seem to be catching a bed in

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Speaker 9: the market at the moment.

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Speaker 2: I was fascinated to see, you know, Premiere, make Red,

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Speaker 2: Tiger brands, I think make Red Netcare, Life Healthcare mt

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Speaker 2: and and Verdicom I think was Vertoom with the stocks

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Speaker 2: that were all up on the day. I mean, that

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Speaker 2: really tells you what people are thinking about what we're

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Speaker 2: going to need and we're always going to need to communicate,

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Speaker 2: and we're always going to need to we're always going

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Speaker 2: to need to.

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Speaker 9: Eat precisely, that plus the drug stocks of course historically

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Speaker 9: and of course, if if you look at offshore markets,

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Speaker 9: also utilities in other companies where you've got pretty reasonable

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Speaker 9: high conviction around the security of cash flows, whereas of

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Speaker 9: course your cyclical companies, your miners, et cetera, et cetera,

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Speaker 9: tend to get sold off during environments like this because essentially,

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Speaker 9: again it's a flight to safety.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so obviously a big beneficiary from this. You

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Speaker 2: would think they make fuel from they make petrol from oil.

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Speaker 2: I've kind of been slightly surprised that the share price

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Speaker 2: hasn't actually done more over the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, that's an interesting and fair point.

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Speaker 9: I think a lot of investors, particularly on the retail side,

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Speaker 9: look at what's happening to the Brent spot price. That's

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Speaker 9: essentially the price traded in the Mid Atlantic. But what

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Speaker 9: you actually need to be looking at to get a

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Speaker 9: review of what's going on with Sassol is the dubaiophysical price.

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Speaker 9: And just to give you some sense there, I mean,

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Speaker 9: the tightness in the Middle East means that the dubaiophysical

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Speaker 9: price is closer to about one hundred and sixty dollars

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Speaker 9: a barrel, as opposed to Branch, which is trading closer

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Speaker 9: to one hundred dollars the barrel. Now, again, of course

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Speaker 9: that's simply because of the shortage of physical supply in

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Speaker 9: the Middle East, whereas that tight experience is not happening

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Speaker 9: in the Atlantic, for example. But it does give one

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Speaker 9: an indication of where diesel prices could be going. And

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Speaker 9: of course Sassal benefits from this directly through something called

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Speaker 9: the crackspread, which is essentially the margin that makes on

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Speaker 9: making the likes of diesel and petrol.

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Speaker 8: Bottom line is that this is going to be.

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Speaker 9: Highly supportive of their cash flows, and yeah, I think

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Speaker 9: he's going to potentially provide them with a very large

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Speaker 9: opportunity to delevel their balance sheets and potentially even play

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Speaker 9: dividends at some point.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Ryan Hill, thanks so much. He had a fundamental

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Speaker 2: sales at Abscess cib Yeah, all about what's happening in

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Speaker 2: the Middle East at the moment. You're the Money Show,

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Speaker 2: just gone six thirty.

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Speaker 4: What Stephen on seven two seven oh two one seven o.

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Speaker 2: Two, Well, you heard the conversation around vaccines. I have

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Speaker 2: to say I didn't think I've spent so much of

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Speaker 2: my life talking about vaccines again, but you heard the

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Speaker 2: conversation with John sten Hayes and the Agriculture Minister and

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Speaker 2: also of course the Farmers Group sigh. Has some interesting

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Speaker 2: responses to that this evening.

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Speaker 10: Hi, Stephen, whatever happened to the case of the army

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Speaker 10: who imported those vaccines for COVID? I think it was

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Speaker 10: some kind of horse medication. They spent millions on it.

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Speaker 10: Has someone been fired?

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Speaker 11: Just asking?

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Speaker 10: I mean there seems to be no consequence management for

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Speaker 10: our ministers.

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Speaker 2: I mean the issue of consequence management. I mean you

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Speaker 2: should hear the orders to general and the orders to

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Speaker 2: general before her, and the orders to general before him,

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Speaker 2: and the one before him, yeah, and the one before him,

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Speaker 2: or saying the same thing, you know, no consequence management.

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Speaker 2: I do remember that story. I think the Public Protector

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Speaker 2: eventually investigated or someone didn't. It was sort of reversed,

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Speaker 2: but I don't know if we got the money back.

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Speaker 2: It was with Cuba, if I remember correctly, I think

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Speaker 2: it was a very strange thing. You with the Money show.

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Speaker 2: It's twenty two minutes to seven. I do want to

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Speaker 2: point out something, if I name you may remember last

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Speaker 2: night at about this time, we got a voice note

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Speaker 2: from someone who asked what I thought was a very

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Speaker 2: interesting question. And certainly there's been some discussion about this

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Speaker 2: and sort of corners somewhere about whether or not Trump

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Speaker 2: or people close to him are playing games on the

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Speaker 2: markets because they know what he is going to do,

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Speaker 2: because he tells them, and what that would mean. Well,

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Speaker 2: Blumberg have the most astonishing stories this afternoon about futures markets.

436
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 2: And let me just explain the numbers here. So they

437
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 2: say that in the normal course of the day, early

438
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: in the morning in New York, so normally around the

439
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 2: period of around say ten minutes to seven in New

440
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 2: York time, on an average over the course of five days,

441
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 2: every day in that period, around seven hundred thousand barrels

442
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 2: of oil are traded in a futures market. In other words,

443
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 2: you pay for it now, you get it at a

444
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: future date. That's the future's market. So you're basically saying,

445
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 2: what is the future price of oil going to be?

446
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: That's the whole point. So an average of seven hundred

447
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: thousand barrels would normally be traded in that point yesterday

448
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: when Trump made the announcement, so six forty nine am,

449
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: six million barrels of oil were traded in that two

450
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: minute period, normally seven hundred thousand, this time six million.

451
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 2: At the same time, there was a massive increase in

452
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: trade on the SAP five hundred futures market and on

453
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: financial mind it's in Germany and parts of Europe all

454
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 2: at the same time. Trump made his announcement at seven

455
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: oh five am, soqull it. Thirteen minutes later, he made

456
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: the announcement. Now, I don't know enough, and frankly, I

457
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 2: don't know anyone who does know enough who can say

458
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: for sure that's insider trading, or that's this or whatever

459
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 2: it is. But can you think of another explanation? I mean,

460
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 2: maybe there is, But isn't it the strangest thing? So

461
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: when I said last night and the person said to me, well,

462
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 2: can you say that this is not happening? The answer

463
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: is no, I can't say it's not happening.

464
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: The Money Show with Stephen Schwitz on seven O twos

465
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: seven O twos.

466
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 2: Sixteen minutes to seven will obviously more concerned about the conflict,

467
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 2: the impact of the conflict around Iran and our economy.

468
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: But it does seem now that some ships are avoiding

469
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: sailing anywhere near that aread of going through, say the

470
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: Sewers Canal, they might now be sailing around our coast.

471
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 2: Timothy Walker's a senior researcher on maritime security at the

472
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: Institute for Security Studies. Timothy Good evening, are we seeing

473
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 2: much of an increase in traffic going around Cape Town

474
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: rather than going well anywhere near the Middle East?

475
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 12: Good evening, Stephen, and good evening to everyone listening. Thanks

476
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 12: for having me on Yes mask CMA, HAPAG Lloyd some

477
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 12: of the largest shipping companies in world. Container shipping companies

478
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 12: have decided that they are no longer going to operate

479
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 12: through wonder Strait of hor Moos for understandable reasons, but

480
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 12: two also looking at not returning to the Sewer's canal

481
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 12: route and therefore the only route really between Europe and

482
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 12: Asia will take them around South Africa. So we are

483
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 12: seeing an increase in container ships. In particular, they're very valuable.

484
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 12: The insurance you pay on those, for instance, in the

485
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 12: case of an attack or some kind of incident, is

486
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 12: a lot more of the value of the ship is

487
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 12: so much more so erring on the side of caution

488
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 12: shipping companies, shippers are choosing the Cape.

489
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 2: Route a lot more, and I presume it may be

490
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 2: a lot more expensive. It must be a lot more

491
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 2: expensive to come around the whole of Africa, but probably

492
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: less expensive than insurance.

493
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 12: That's the calculation to make. There's also if you're going

494
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 12: through the Sewez Canal, there's a pretty substantial toll you

495
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 12: pay to the Egyptians to go through and that plus

496
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 12: the insurance cost, which is normally quite quite little, it's

497
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 12: only about sort of a quarter of a percent of

498
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 12: the value of the ship, but once it rises to

499
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 12: about one or two percent, and the ship of value,

500
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 12: the kind of shipping which is going around the cape

501
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 12: now is valued well over one hundred million for a ship,

502
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 12: so you're looking at paying an extra million million and

503
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 12: a half. And there you calculate that against what kind

504
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 12: of extra fuel you have to take on to burn

505
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 12: because you are traveling quite a substantial longer distance as

506
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 12: well as time. The shipping companies don't tend to mind

507
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 12: that too much. They have, for instance, overcapacitated in the

508
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 12: last few years. They've built, particularly so COVID, a lot

509
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 12: more shipping container ships that is really required, so there's

510
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 12: more of them out to sea for longer. It means

511
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 12: there's a less demand. So rather they can sort of

512
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 12: charge quite a lot. So therefore all depends on the

513
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 12: kind of calculations you make, particularly around fuel.

514
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: When they do the longer route, they'll need bunkering, they'll

515
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: need supplies and oil. In particular, where is the sort

516
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 2: of best place for them to do that? Is it

517
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: in the South African port. I mean, you know, obviously

518
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: people in Cape Town are going to say, is there

519
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: anywhere else? But there might well be.

520
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 12: There are several places along the South African coast, in

521
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 12: particular Algoa Bay, which has several ships offshore barges which

522
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 12: are currently supplying or can be supplying ships which choose

523
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 12: to come around the Cape and refuel here. We've always

524
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 12: as a South African market struggled against the big, big

525
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 12: centers where ships choose to bunker will take on fuel

526
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 12: due to factors like the lack of paperwork, the supplying reliability,

527
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 12: the waiting time, and those are places like Singapore and

528
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 12: Rotterdam which tend to be the choke points but also

529
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 12: the end destinations for many of those ships. They take

530
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 12: on fuel there in particular, then if they're going through sewers,

531
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 12: they don't have to burn quite as much so they

532
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 12: don't have to stop in and if they're coming around

533
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 12: the Cape, yes they may choose to call in al Gourbey.

534
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 12: But there's also several other countries, Mauritius in particular and

535
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 12: Namibia who have really benefited in the last few years

536
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 12: from South Africa's implementation of its regulations, and it's actually

537
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 12: kind of caused a loss of the share of the

538
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 12: market and competitiveness to Namibia and Mauritius, and those things

539
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 12: are now being resolved slowly. But whether we're able to

540
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 12: scale it up enough, because there's a lot of ships now,

541
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 12: but we only have, like I say, a relatively few

542
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 12: number of barges. We're looking I think as a country

543
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 12: to grow that amount, But whether that can be done

544
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 12: quickly before potentially a change occur again and shipping reverts

545
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 12: to its normal patterns remains.

546
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: To be seen. What is the problem with the regulations?

547
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 2: Is there a tax implication? Obviously we tax all kinds

548
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: of oil and fuel. Is there something else well?

549
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 12: A large amout amount of it stems from a decision

550
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 12: a few years ago by stars in the Customs and

551
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 12: Excise Acts to close a loophole which many companies, where

552
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 12: it felt, had been exploiting, which is that when you

553
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 12: bring fuel into the country you need to pay an

554
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 12: import tax or a duty on that. But if you

555
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 12: were bringing it in to a ship and not taking

556
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 12: it ashore, so it wasn't kind of falling under the

557
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 12: definition of like an oil container on land, those were

558
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 12: the only things considered.

559
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 8: It was to be taxed.

560
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 12: Shipping companies, according to Stars, weren't paying that import duty,

561
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 12: so they seize several vessels. This is midway through twenty

562
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 12: twenty three, and that caused a lot of lack of

563
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 12: confidence in this African market itself. The regulations, the implementation

564
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 12: of those, it took it a while, as I said,

565
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 12: has sorted out. At the time it had sorted it up,

566
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 12: had lost market shared to whether other countries who didn't

567
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 12: have quite the same regulations or tax in import duties

568
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 12: and made themselves an attractive alternative.

569
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: So, I mean, it's an impossible question at Timothy. Obviously

570
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: the future of this conflict is yet to be written.

571
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 2: But is it fair to say that faith in shipping

572
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: in that whole area has been shaken? I mean, no

573
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: one really knows what's going to happen, but like oil markets,

574
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: I just can't help but think that there might be

575
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: a fundamental re understanding of what is safe from what

576
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 2: isn't in that area, certainly for let's say the next

577
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: six months, even if the conflict ended on Friday.

578
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's the maritime security has been taken for granted

579
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 12: for a long time. You know, the idea that ship

580
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 12: will arrive without being blocked or suffering some kind of hindrance.

581
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 12: Anywhere in the world. It's a fundamental part of international law,

582
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 12: the freedom of navigation on the high seas. Coastal states

583
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 12: aren't supposed to intercept or block or charge a toll

584
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 12: like the Iranians are saying they will do now on shipping.

585
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 12: That does seem to be changing quite fundamentally, especially in

586
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 12: that part of the world. This is where geography really

587
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 12: comes to play a massive part. To get as quickly

588
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 12: as you can from if we're taking a European or

589
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 12: an East Asian perspective to your major markets and partners,

590
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 12: you want to take the shortest possible route, and that

591
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 12: would be through the Sewers Canal. But to go through

592
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 12: that you have to go past the Arabian Peninsula, where

593
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 12: on both sides of its both sides where it has

594
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 12: choke points the Red Sea as well as the Strait

595
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 12: of Hormus. You've seen massive instability, and this is again

596
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 12: factoring in that the Huti in Yemen have not really

597
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 12: made their presence known. It's not as clear still whether

598
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 12: they would target many vessels as they did before, but

599
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 12: it's still enough to create a lot of concerns amongst

600
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 12: shipping that rather than take that risk, they will take

601
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 12: the longer route. But that longer route just adds again

602
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 12: to the overall cost of doing things and takes does

603
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 12: cause an economic hit for the rest of the world.

604
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 12: We do stand to benefit in some way through bunkering

605
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 12: and supplying ships if they choose to call in at

606
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 12: saff comports, but the long term global ramifications of just

607
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 12: instability in the Middle East are being felt in a

608
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 12: big way.

609
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: Timothy walk Up, thank you so much, Really appreciate that,

610
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: senior researcher on maritime security at the Institute for Security

611
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: Studies eight minutes now to seven the time you with

612
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 2: the money show. Well, that's one aspect that's having an

613
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: impact on us, the increased shipping traffic around our coast.

614
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: But the other question of courses is the fact that

615
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: fuel prices are about to jump so dramatically going to

616
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: have an impact on cars you may be thinking of buying,

617
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: And even if fuel prices to moderate over time, electric

618
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 2: cars are becoming cheaper and perhaps cheaper to run. If

619
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 2: you have a solar installation or if you'll work a workplace,

620
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 2: dos aue your local shopping mall suddenly the cost has changed.

621
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: Warren Tucker is a motoring expert. We're on Good Evening.

622
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: I think in a way we've fallen a bit behind

623
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: the rest of the world here. More and more countries

624
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: have so many of these electric cars on the road.

625
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: At the moment, we have a very small number of

626
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: electric cars being.

627
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 13: Sold, yes, Good Evening. So what you see in the

628
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 13: market is is because of the high cost of entry,

629
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 13: you know, the electric cars at the moment are sort

630
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 13: of only a select few that would go that way.

631
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 13: You've obviously got your hybrid electric which is your petrol

632
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 13: and your electric engine. Those seem to be more common,

633
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 13: and what you kind of see people are more likely

634
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 13: to buy a hybrid before they buy a full electric vehicle.

635
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 13: Obviously based on the situation we had a couple of

636
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 13: years ago with load shedding. Okay, am I going to

637
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 13: go full electric? Am I going to be able to

638
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 13: charge my vehicle? You know, I'm going to have to

639
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 13: put up solar. So there's all those things to consider

640
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 13: when it comes to an electric vehicle.

641
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: And there's been a very wet march in carting. You

642
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: know that be a problem if you look at an

643
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: electric car, I mean what becomes interesting if you have

644
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: a bit of money, or if you can take it

645
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 2: out of your bond or something like that, you can

646
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 2: afford sometimes to look at the whole cost over the

647
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 2: lifetime of the car. Because an electric car probably needs

648
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: less servicing, they can be quite cheap to run. If

649
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 2: you have access to solar, you can say, okay, over

650
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: five years or over ten years or whatever, this is

651
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 2: what this car will cost. If I buy a diesel

652
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: or a petrol car, this is what the car will cost.

653
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: And there'll be massive variables there because you don't know

654
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: what's going to happen to fuel prices. The problem is

655
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 2: most people don't have the luxury of that horizon, and

656
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: they're expensive to buy upfront. Electric cars, I.

657
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 13: Mean definitely you see. So the issue with the electric

658
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 13: cars are simple. Your batteries your biggest cost. Even though

659
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 13: the price of your batteries come down about twenty five

660
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 13: percent compared from twenty twenty three to twenty twenty four,

661
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 13: your battery still remains the biggest cost on the vehicle.

662
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 13: And that's kind of where a lot of the stumbling

663
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 13: blocks in terms of getting into the electric or the

664
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 13: evy market. The thing with evy vehicles is because they

665
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 13: cost so much to purchase upfront. The pine a used

666
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 13: one might actually be more beneficial because their prices have

667
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 13: also started falling. I mean, yeah, and yeah, their prices

668
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 13: have dropped fifteen percent. So, you know, because there's more

669
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 13: anti level electric vehicles in the market, productions obviously kicked up,

670
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 13: you know. So total cost of ownership, Yes, upfront is

671
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 13: a high cost to entry, but look at it holistically.

672
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 13: Over let's say an eight year period, because they say, well,

673
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 13: normally your battery would last about eight years, right you,

674
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 13: your total cost of ownership drops dramatically. However, tires for

675
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 13: electric v are sometimes can be a bit extensive. Service

676
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 13: seller is basically just the braking system and a couple

677
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 13: of folters here in there, and that's about it.

678
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 2: I suppose. The other problem is that for a big country. Now,

679
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: if you're in the United States, for example, a much

680
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 2: richer country than us, you might have an electric car

681
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 2: that one person uses as a sort of run about,

682
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: you know, in the city, or and then another big

683
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: car that you use on holidays, or you borrow one

684
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 2: or your rent one. Here I think hardly anyone does that.

685
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: So you need one car that can take you to

686
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: and from work, pick up the kids, go to the supermarket,

687
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: to all of those things. And on a Friday afternoon

688
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 2: you live in Joeburg, you have to be able to

689
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 2: jump in that car and get a pulloqwani in one

690
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: move for the weekend, and we only have one car

691
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 2: to do all.

692
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 13: Of that in definitely, you see in America and all

693
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 13: your more developed countries, you've got various ways to get

694
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 13: from point eight to point B. You can use the bus,

695
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 13: you can use the train, You've got options. In South

696
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 13: Africa not really. Our rail system for a long time

697
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 13: is being neglected. The buses are constantly competing on the

698
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 13: taxis who are constantly competing on the buses, and you've

699
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 13: got a situation where if you don't have a vehicle,

700
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 13: you know you're kind of stuck. You need to make

701
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 13: a plan to get where you need to go. We

702
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 13: do have a network that to set up for recharging vehicles.

703
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 13: So what they did is you can drive basically from

704
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 13: Jobok to Cape Town, Jobok to Naisner, Robok to Pe

705
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 13: and I think Jobok to Cape Durbin as well. And

706
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 13: the garages are clearly noted where you can stop and

707
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 13: charge your ev vehicle. But it's not How can I say,

708
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 13: it's not like they've got fifty charging stations there. They

709
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 13: normally have four or five, And those charging stations are

710
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 13: available because there aren't that many electric vehicles on the road.

711
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 13: Should that start to change and you start seeing a

712
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 13: situation where there are more electric vehicles on the road,

713
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 13: then these sites obviously will need to be beefed up,

714
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 13: which means the demand will incase you need to obviously

715
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 13: supply those sites of power. So all those things sort

716
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 13: of wherever knock on efflect. That's why I say that

717
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 13: the public seems to where, at least in South Africa,

718
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 13: they might accept in a hybrid electric vehicle because I

719
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 13: still have a petrol engine, right, so I can put

720
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 13: petrol in if I need to. I've got this electric

721
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 13: motor as a backup. So when I'm in town or

722
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 13: city driving, I'm riding on electric motor. If I need

723
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 13: to get on the highway, I'm going to drive with

724
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 13: a petrol engine. And you've kind of got a best

725
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 13: of both worlds. And that system seems to be sort

726
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 13: of more the publics accepting more of that sort of

727
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 13: system than the full electric vehicle.

728
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 2: Larren Tucker, so much to talk about, so interesting. Thank

729
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 2: you so much, Motoring expert, really appreciate the time.

730
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 14: The Money Show Stephen Flutter is brought to you by

731
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 14: Absur Islamic Business Bank, celebrating twenty years of banking rooted

732
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 14: and values apps as the registered FSP.

733
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: In a moment is cold calling on the way out? Yes? Please?

734
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: What about network connections and the people you work with

735
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: and your shared office? That's next you at The Money

736
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 2: Show seven o'clock.

737
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Credits on seven

738
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: o two nets walk Little.

739
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

740
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 2: by abs Islamic Business Bank, celebrating twenty years of banking

741
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: rooted in values as is a registered FSP. Seven minutes

742
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: after seven, Good evening, well plenty to come. We'll talk

743
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 2: a little bit about networking and about the experience of

744
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 2: working in the same space as someone. I'll explain this

745
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 2: a little better in a minute, I promise, Rutendo Wendingui.

746
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 2: He'll be with you in a few moments as well.

747
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: Be looking at what's been happening on our content and

748
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 2: personal finance this evening. Why you mustn't do your will

749
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: yourself in other words, the risks, the pitfalls, things you

750
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: have to take into account, and why it's a good

751
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: idea to actually you get an expert to do it,

752
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 2: or to just make sure everything's taken care of. I mean,

753
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: some of the best soap operas ever have had stories

754
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 2: about wills because you know, it's all complicated and people argue,

755
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 2: and I'm always amazed at the number of people who

756
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 2: seem to change their will at the last minute. I mean,

757
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: always a bit suspicious, frankly, I mean surely. I mean,

758
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 2: do the people in your life change that quickly? Really? Okay?

759
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: You know, did the one child slight you in some way?

760
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: Were they rude? On the latest WhatsApp? I mean, it's

761
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: a very interesting thing. But how to make sure your

762
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 2: will works? So yeah, looking forward to that. Will take

763
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 2: questions as well on that good year from you? Oh

764
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: double one double A three oh seven or two and

765
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: two one four four six, five six seven.

766
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 3: The Loly Show with Stephen Kruer's Live on ninety two

767
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 3: point seven and one six FM streaming on the Prime

768
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 3: Media Plus.

769
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 11: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

770
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: So interesting to see a comment from a netcare earlier

771
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 2: today and they were basically making a very interesting point.

772
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 2: They were giving it just a trading update, and they

773
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: said that essentially there was they had noticed that medical

774
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: schemes seemed to be a little tighter this year. In

775
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 2: other words, they seem to be making people jump through

776
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: more hoops to get hospital treatment approved, and as a result,

777
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: Netcare wasn't doing quite the same number of hospital procedures.

778
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 6: Now.

779
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: A couple of things are going on in the medical

780
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: aid industry and if I remember correctly, and this is

781
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: off the top of my head, Discovery by far the

782
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 2: biggest actually delayed it's increase because of its financial position,

783
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 2: which is quite strong. It delayed the increase in what

784
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 2: people will pay. I think it's six months quite a while.

785
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: So that's the one thing. You've also got, as we know,

786
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 2: sort of longer term concerns about the medical aid industry.

787
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 2: And that's because the younger people are sort of not

788
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: having medical aid. The people who are left on it

789
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 2: are older people. They needed more. You don't have quite

790
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: the same contributions all of those things, and so that's

791
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: a part of the issue. But just an interesting comment

792
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 2: from Netcare that sort of medical aids schemes seem to

793
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 2: be a little tighter. So my question, I suppose have

794
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: you noticed that now? No, almost everyone I know, almost

795
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: every adult I know who has medical aid, has had

796
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: a fight with their medical aid at some point or another.

797
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 2: And you can spend hours going through the minushi of this,

798
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 2: and that I know people who've actually sort of appealed

799
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: the decision and ended up in front of a group

800
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 2: of people who took them very seriously. I didn't know

801
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 2: such a thing existed. But have you noticed a change

802
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 2: in what your medical aid is authorizing? Please? Oh seven

803
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 2: two seven oh two one seven o two.

804
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 3: Is on The Money Show six to eight pm.

805
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're quite as frustrated as in

806
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: you probably are by the sheer number of calls you

807
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 2: get to your cell phone. That is someone you don't

808
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: know trying to sell you something, usually something that you

809
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 2: don't need for some reason. I'm in some car insurance

810
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: company books. And then there are people who say that no,

811
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 2: we'll reduce your loans. Yeah, whatever, I'm going to trust you.

812
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 2: I don't know, though, if you've had the experience of

813
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 2: someone you know offering you a service, maybe someone in

814
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: your neighborhood. So on my street, WhatsApp group. I've noticed

815
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 2: a few people who live in the street will advertise

816
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 2: their services, and I have to say, if I ever

817
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: actually need a service, they're the first person I go to.

818
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily know that their service will be better.

819
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: I may not even know them that well, but hey,

820
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 2: they're on their street, my street What'sapp group, so they've

821
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 2: got to be good, right. It's interesting that just because

822
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 2: I sort of know them well. The shared workspace provider

823
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: Workshop seventeen, they've started I don't know if you'd call

824
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 2: it an experiment, but they've created the directory. So if

825
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 2: you work there, if you're one of them members, and

826
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 2: you're there regularly and you're looking for a particular service,

827
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 2: well maybe that well dressed chap that you see in

828
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 2: the lift every day actually provides exactly that you just said,

829
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 2: no idea. Penelope Mania is the national marketing manager at

830
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 2: Workshop seventeen. Canelope, good evening. What made you think of

831
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 2: doing this.

832
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 15: Hi, Stephen, Yeah, thanks thanks so much.

833
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 6: So.

834
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 15: Really, I think this is it's not necessarily an experiment,

835
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 15: and it's been something that we've been working on for

836
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 15: for quite some time now, and it's really a digital

837
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 15: platform app and platform based digital directory, and I think

838
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 15: it really talks to what you're saying right now, is

839
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 15: you have trust in physical proximity. I mean, you share

840
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 15: or someone says something in your network or your WhatsApp group,

841
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 15: and you automatically kind of trust them. It's a funny

842
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 15: kind of you know, a funny kind of concept. Maybe

843
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 15: it's because you know it's their proof of existence. You know,

844
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 15: you share you know, a dog walk, or you see them,

845
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 15: you know, over over the fence or whatever, and you

846
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 15: automatically think, well, I know them, they're like minded, and

847
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 15: I trust them. So we've kind of taken that concept

848
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 15: of really kind of that trust element and then obviously

849
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 15: the membership based of like minded individuals and businessmen and

850
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 15: women and not all looking for data as you refer

851
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 15: to them things them in the lift, and really putting

852
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 15: that onto a platform which you have access to, immediate

853
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 15: access to, so you're cutting out that noise, you know,

854
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 15: if you're going to LinkedIn or whatever that might look

855
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 15: like I'm searching for say I'm looking for a marketer

856
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 15: or I'm looking for a graphic designer. I can choose

857
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 15: bi sector, I can choose by location and by organizations,

858
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 15: so it's a really really seamless way of looking for

859
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 15: a professional that you're looking for, and you know it's

860
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 15: quick and it's sufficient and effective. So really that's been

861
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 15: our approach and something quite quite new.

862
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: Have people been making these connections anyway? I mean I

863
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: am the kind of person you don't really want to

864
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 2: be in a lift with me because I ask you

865
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 2: how you are, what your name is, where you're from,

866
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: how many children you have, how much they irritate you.

867
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 2: But have people been making these connections anyway?

868
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 15: I think they have. But I think you know, we've

869
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 15: we've kind of we've moved into a space where people

870
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 15: are really busy, you know, they don't have the time

871
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 15: and the day. Yes, they connect authentically over a cup

872
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 15: of coffee around you know, the coffee stations or the

873
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 15: barister stations. But now we're giving you something that, as

874
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 15: I said, it's really kind of almost network as a service,

875
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 15: so you know, you can quickly tap into it. I

876
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 15: can say, Okay, that person's you know, sitting next to

877
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 15: me or down the hall there in marketing, and I

878
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 15: want to connect with them, and it's it's literally a

879
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 15: really informal intro, but I really know them because now

880
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 15: I can just walk down. I've made that connection, I

881
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 15: can walk down down the passage, and now you know

882
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 15: we literally can move from there.

883
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: The type of people who use your facility, so your customers,

884
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,479
Speaker 2: I don't know if you call them community members or something,

885
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 2: but can I say, in a couple of times i've

886
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: sort of been into your facilities, I've noticed they are

887
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: a very particular kind of person. Let me say, a

888
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 2: sort of upwardly mobile. There's someone who's clearly sort of

889
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 2: successful in their own sense. Does that act as a

890
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 2: sort of self selecting filter. It's only a particular kind

891
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: of person.

892
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 15: I think you're absolutely right. I mean, look, we've got

893
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 15: a base of about eight thousand professionals and over one

894
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 15: hundred different sectors, so absolutely like minded individuals. You know

895
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 15: they are obviously from as you say, definitely professionals. We

896
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 15: can and people can filter out that professional that digital directory.

897
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 15: So you know they come to the space and they're

898
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 15: looking for the same thing. So immediately, you know, we

899
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 15: talk about looking as that network as a service idea,

900
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 15: they're looking for those self fulfilling same things.

901
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: The people who go to your offices, they reready been

902
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: looking for a workspace. I mean most of them. At

903
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: one point, we are probably just looking for a place

904
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 2: where the electricity and the Wi Fi always worked. Now

905
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 2: that's a little easier, but they'll stay where they are.

906
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: There must be now you're offering this, I mean, there

907
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: must be value in the directory itself. You've actually got

908
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 2: a collection of people who are known to be sort

909
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 2: of vaguely good at what they do. That's valuable. I mean,

910
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: that's valuable for your customers.

911
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 15: It's hugely valuable. I think we've we've really moved away

912
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 15: just to work just sort of a desk or an

913
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 15: office or just an office space or.

914
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 11: Any of that.

915
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 15: Not really, it's it's hugely, hugely valuable because you know,

916
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 15: whatever you you know, it's a scarcity, and if you

917
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,720
Speaker 15: look at things like LinkedIn, it's become such a digital noise.

918
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 15: I don't want to go onto that platform and start

919
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 15: sifting out through the noise and sending a message. It

920
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 15: might actually just sit in an in box for six

921
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 15: to eight ten months or never get onswered wherever. I know,

922
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 15: you know, these are the individuals that are actually doing

923
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 15: and working as hard or maybe not as hard as me,

924
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 15: or but really they're they're they're in the same you know,

925
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 15: the same capacity. So absolutely, it's it's it's really is

926
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 15: it's really you know, working in that regard.

927
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 2: How are you finding business at the moment. I mean

928
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 2: that you're seeing a lot more people coming in. Did

929
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 2: load shedding the end of load shedding have an impact

930
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 2: in any way?

931
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 15: Load shedding was fantastic for business, not so great for

932
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 15: their economy also South Africa, but really fantastic for business.

933
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 15: And we've actually never been busier. It's really been fantastic.

934
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 15: We've got you know, I think with the advent of

935
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 15: of you know, people going back to to to the

936
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 15: office space, large companies obviously kind of sending a lot

937
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 15: of their workforce back into office spaces. We're seeing all

938
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 15: sorts of from the sol entrepreneur to large big enterprises

939
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 15: coming through btos, bespoke office solutions. So we are getting

940
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 15: you know, the spaces are full. So you've got a

941
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 15: great demographic of you know, individuals to large different companies

942
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 15: coming to the space to utilizing the space. So there's

943
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 15: a great cross sector, as I said, over one hundred

944
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 15: different sectors to pull from. So it's a great directory

945
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 15: and really beneficial from the individual to the large organizations.

946
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 8: It's not just yeah, it's not.

947
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 15: It's not necessary, you know, just looking for someone to

948
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 15: do business, you know, someone to say, for example, I'm

949
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 15: looking for X person, you know, like a contractor or whatnot.

950
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 15: You know, it could be it could at ranges, you know,

951
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 15: whether they're want an expertise or a speaker, or a

952
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 15: connection or a contractor. So the ranger is really it's fantastic.

953
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: Banela Pemnira, thanks very much, the national marketing manager at

954
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 2: Workshop seventeen. So I suppose my question to you then

955
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 2: would be when do you answer the phone and why?

956
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 2: And when you're looking for a particular service, who do

957
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 2: you contact? Is it someone who lives in your area?

958
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 2: I know so many people. I mean when I have

959
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 2: things done or I need something done, what I usually

960
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 2: do is I ask a friend or I ask I

961
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 2: actually ask my street WhatsApp group. Does anyone know a

962
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 2: person who will do this?

963
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 14: Well?

964
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: Does anyone knows someone who you know? Does anyone basically

965
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 2: use the person and being happy with their service? And

966
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 2: should I use them? Sometimes you get people to say, look,

967
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 2: i'll give you this number, but I don't know if

968
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 2: I would use them, or they'll be very honest with

969
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: their experience quite often though. The first response, certainly on

970
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 2: my street WhatsApp group because it's a nice place, it's

971
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: a nice street, is someone will say you, what's this person?

972
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 2: They're very good, this is what they did for me,

973
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 2: and so on you go because there's no stronger recommendation.

974
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: So that idea of that proximity. I think the other thing,

975
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 2: and we must be honest about this, is that if

976
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 2: you I think there are two ways that make you

977
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: trust someone fundamentally. The one is if you've known them

978
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 2: for a long time, so you might have known someone

979
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 2: when they were young, you worked with them for ten years,

980
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 2: you go away for five years, you come back, you

981
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 2: see them again. You immediately trust them because you know them.

982
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 6: You just do.

983
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: And the second is if you know where someone lives.

984
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 2: And I don't mean that in a threatening way. I

985
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 2: mean in a way that you live in the same

986
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: area as them. You know that if they do something

987
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: wrong to you, they are themselves vulnerable. The other way,

988
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 2: so you know they aren't going to do anything aggressive.

989
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: I think that's really one way of looking at it.

990
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 2: Nineteen minutes now after seven.

991
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,760
Speaker 1: Your Money Show Africa Business.

992
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 2: Focus professor Rotendo and Dingree founding director a Tribe Africa,

993
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 2: advisory and author of Rumble in the Jungle Reloaded Rotinda.

994
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 2: How's it going?

995
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,479
Speaker 6: Not too sure? They's Steven all the Belgar in your voice?

996
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 6: How are you?

997
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 7: Yeah?

998
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: All right, all right, Yeah, I know a lot going on.

999
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: As a DRC. Obviously we know them kind of for

1000
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 2: their mining. Now they're finally looking at a sugar production project.

1001
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 6: Definitely step in the right direction, Stephen DRC. As we

1002
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 6: know historically it's invested significantly mining, but in trying to

1003
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 6: diversify the economy. They're focusing on on on a sugar

1004
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 6: manufacturing plant. So obviously they want to stop the importation

1005
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 6: or reduce the importation of sugar. At the moment, Steve,

1006
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 6: they're important about one hundred and fifty million US dollars

1007
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 6: worth of sugar every year. And they've got the well,

1008
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 6: they've got the land, definitely, they've also got the potential

1009
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 6: money to put into the infrastructure. So really obviously by

1010
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 6: building this refinery processing sugar, and they also create an

1011
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 6: agri value chain of jobs of infrastructure and and and

1012
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 6: build self capacity which is a big thing. And we've

1013
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 6: seen Angola, which relies heavily on oil now also diversifying

1014
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 6: and branching also into other areas including technology. So definitely

1015
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 6: people For dir SE with all its other challenges, this

1016
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 6: would be a positive thing because their sea geographical is

1017
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 6: one of the biggest countries on the continent, so definitely

1018
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 6: step in the right direction. And the and the and

1019
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 6: the location is called Satania and it's in the Katanga province.

1020
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 6: So we look forward to seeing the development of this

1021
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,720
Speaker 6: and often in three years will go live and produce

1022
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 6: their first three kilograms. It's been their target.

1023
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 2: I mean, look, there is over supply of sugar at

1024
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 2: the moment, but I mean the whole point here is

1025
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 2: that you need a manufacturing economy. I mean, in some

1026
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 2: ways we've had the same problem, but particularly for the DLC,

1027
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,720
Speaker 2: which relies so much on mining and it often causes conflict.

1028
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 6: It always comes well, I think a lot of things

1029
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 6: cause conflict in the In the d r C. They've

1030
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 6: got mining the diamonds, then big demand with regards to

1031
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 6: transition metals and ray metals as well as peven so

1032
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 6: and I think the challenge is is the sustainability of

1033
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 6: this project, bearing in mind the politics and the civil

1034
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,760
Speaker 6: war that's happening around. But you know, if our president

1035
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 6: shakey with his leadership and the private sector. They've got

1036
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 6: all the high components. The weather is great for growing

1037
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 6: sugarcane as well as manufacturing. They've got the capacity. Investors

1038
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 6: do flock into the GRC for one reason or the other.

1039
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 6: So at the end of the day, they've got all

1040
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 6: the ingredients. Steven, they just have to make it work.

1041
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 6: So it's a bold step, but a very necessary one.

1042
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 6: Talking to industrialization, which is a big thing that Africa

1043
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:37,959
Speaker 6: needs in terms of taking it to the next level

1044
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:39,720
Speaker 6: as an economy and growing.

1045
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 2: China is looking at cutting solar incentives for Africa, and

1046
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 2: Elon Musk has been negotiating a big Chinese solar equipment

1047
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 2: deal for Tesla.

1048
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 6: To put a figure to it and inner Mass because

1049
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 6: there never small Steven, it's two point nine billion US dollars.

1050
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 6: And this just talks to pure geo economics. But I've

1051
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 6: always said, Stephen that I was actually quoting one of

1052
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 6: the key government leaders will say that Joe economics always

1053
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,919
Speaker 6: trumps geopolitics, and this is what is happening. Yeah, irrespective

1054
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 6: of the dilemma between the US and China, Elomask is

1055
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 6: pruck a deal to build a two point nine billion

1056
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 6: dollar investment of solar energy. It's about one hundred gigauts

1057
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 6: of energy that you are to build in Silicon City

1058
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 6: in the USA. The raw materials he needs for this,

1059
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 6: Steven is going to be obviously coming from China. Now,

1060
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 6: the down inside from Africa is there was a lot

1061
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 6: of text rebates and exporting centives that were given to

1062
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 6: people exporting from China two countries like Africa to incentivise

1063
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 6: them to offer. But because they just struck this deal

1064
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 6: soon after that the announcement was made by government that

1065
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 6: then they won't be directly linked. But everybody suspect that's

1066
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 6: the case. But all those a number of those rebates

1067
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 6: and texts incentives are going to be taken away from

1068
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 6: a US perspective in a step in the right direction.

1069
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 6: They need this infrastructure for energy and to power the

1070
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 6: AIG and the EV world that's coming into play. China

1071
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 6: is going to be definitely benefiting because obviously two point

1072
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,919
Speaker 6: nine billion in the economy from industrialization perspective is absolutely great.

1073
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 6: The downside from Africa, and it's a lesson learns again,

1074
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 6: is that because we are on the tailing, we are

1075
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 6: going to miss out from this if we don't position

1076
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 6: ourselves correctly. And what I mean by that, Stiven, is

1077
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 6: that fifty five percent of the transition metals raw materials

1078
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 6: that China needs actually come from Africa. So we need

1079
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 6: to push ourselves up the value chair and say, hey on, guys,

1080
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 6: how can we get more out of this deal? Let

1081
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 6: just get on the tailing. But ultimately it's a big

1082
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 6: deal for the US in China and Africa is going

1083
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 6: to be left in the lurch if they're not careful.

1084
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 2: And then the World Bank, it's a big project for

1085
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 2: Banina and Mauritania to protect their coastlines and then also

1086
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 2: create jobs in the sea economy, the blue economy.

1087
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 6: So we under estimate, I think in Africa, we know

1088
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 6: we usually are lendlock focused into terms of infrastructure, in

1089
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,439
Speaker 6: terms of mining, in terms of agriculture, but the blue

1090
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 6: economy plays a big part with regards to driving the

1091
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 6: lens of African continent. The World Bank Steven has injected

1092
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 6: a two hundred and forty million US dollar investment into

1093
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 6: Mauritania and bernin that to support the blue economy and

1094
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 6: the investments around that. It will also contributes to to

1095
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 6: reduce blooding and also evolsion that was happening on the sides.

1096
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 6: It's a compact or the investment is through the West

1097
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 6: African coastal area's blue economy, and really it's also to

1098
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 6: stimulate job They expect about thirty one job thirty one

1099
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 6: thousand jobs by twenty thirty, but three thousand probably to

1100
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 6: come up in the coming year. The success of this

1101
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 6: is not just from an economic perspective in terms of

1102
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 6: creating jobs, but also contributing to the biodiversity and just

1103
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 6: make sure that the fauna and flora around the shows

1104
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 6: of Bernina and Mauritania reserve. So ultimately a great opportunity

1105
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 6: for investment in terms of taking both countries forward. The

1106
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 6: challenge with the with the loads that come from the

1107
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 6: world based eve and we know that Africa is never

1108
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 6: really good at at balancing these off in terms of

1109
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 6: policy sustainability and were sence in Kenya, remember President hut

1110
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 6: came into power and the way these bad loans that

1111
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 6: he edited and we saw what was happening with the

1112
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 6: young people with the riots because people will be texted

1113
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 6: now to pay for that, et cetera, et cetera. So

1114
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 6: again it's a it's a characteristic situation and we just

1115
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 6: hope that this plans relates into a sustainable social economic

1116
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 6: development that takes the country forward. But in principle, Stephen,

1117
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 6: it's a step again in the right direction.

1118
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 2: And then Toyota Social is partnering with the company they're

1119
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 2: involved in a very heavy rare earth project in the movie.

1120
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 2: I mean that's fascinating.

1121
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 6: Yeah. So and you said Socio very nicely. So that

1122
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 6: Sushial is part of the Toyota group and there's a

1123
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 6: big investment with regards to to to to rare metals

1124
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 6: and they've parted up with with the Canadian listed company

1125
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 6: that's that's also invested in Amibia. Toyota obviously a Japanese

1126
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 6: company and Uh, they're also partnered with their local entity

1127
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 6: called the Japan Organization of Metals and Energy Security and

1128
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 6: they the rare metals were picking up us specifically Steven,

1129
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 6: that will be subject to this mining esporosium and it

1130
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 6: makes me feel like my high school science plus again.

1131
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 7: Uh.

1132
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 6: And the price per for their the exposium Steven, it's

1133
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 6: used for electric vehicles and UH wind to abse and

1134
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 6: the price packages about nine hundred US dollars, so it's

1135
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 6: not cheap. So the investment and the infrastructure required harvested

1136
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 6: out of the ground to mining perspectives, also not cheap,

1137
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 6: but again a great opportunity for Namibia that sense, and.

1138
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 2: Then very quickly profit. Rhana has been introduced to a

1139
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 2: Ugandan park that they were there forty years ago and

1140
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 2: finally their back.

1141
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 6: They used to have a total of seven hundred in

1142
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 6: Uganda and obviously due to poaching uh and being slaughtered

1143
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 6: for their homes and then their meat, the only they

1144
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 6: were left to nothing. Two of them have been brought

1145
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 6: back from another private reserve. That's a good story. They

1146
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 6: are two southern in terms of the southern type rhinos Africa,

1147
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 6: believe it or not, as only a butt fifteen thousand

1148
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 6: white finals in total. So these are white chinos the

1149
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 6: northern type, the only two left in the whole of

1150
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 6: Africa and they're in Kenya. But he has a great

1151
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 6: story in terms of these two rhinos being brought back

1152
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 6: into the wild and regardless of obviously put up security

1153
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 6: and investments around that, it attracts tourists and preserves such

1154
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 6: a wonderful breed which you want to see more and growth.

1155
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 6: But a great story. We took out to what Uganda

1156
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 6: is do it from a old life perspective.

1157
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 2: Professor Rutundo and drink. Thanks so much, really appreciate the

1158
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 2: founding director Trump Africa, advice author of the book Rumble

1159
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 2: in the Jungle, Reloaded The Money Show Personal Finance, Well

1160
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 2: Warren ingram out. Today Sharon Hammond is joining us instead

1161
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 2: a senior legal advisor at momentum. But let me first

1162
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 2: just set the scene. So imagine that you draw up

1163
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 2: will you get it? Will you get it from a

1164
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 2: certain place? And off you go, and unfortunately you pass away.

1165
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 2: And then this is what happens at that moment, when

1166
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 2: everyone's around waiting for the will to be read.

1167
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 16: All my assets, both liquid and otherwise, I leave in

1168
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 16: their entirety to Marta Cabrera. My entire ownership of Blood

1169
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 16: Like Wine Publishing, I leave in its entirety to Marta

1170
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 16: Cabrera the copyright of its catalog. Likewise, I leave in

1171
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 16: its entirety to Marta Cabrera.

1172
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 2: No, that's not that's no, that can't be.

1173
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 17: Can I see that?

1174
01:02:57,960 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 13: Please? An't right?

1175
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 2: Please it's right? Can you imagine? Can you imagine if

1176
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 2: you're wondering it's from the movie Knives Out? But can

1177
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 2: you imagine if that's what happens with your will. Well,

1178
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 2: Sharon Hammond is one of those people who make sure

1179
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 2: that it doesn't. Sharon, Good evening, and thanks so much

1180
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 2: for joining us on Personal Finance tonight.

1181
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 11: Good evening, Steven, it's good to be here.

1182
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 2: Okay, so we're talking about why you need to actually

1183
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 2: make sure your will is sorted out. And I know

1184
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 2: that you can get wills online, you can buy them,

1185
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 2: you can fill them in and it's kind of done.

1186
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 2: But there are many issues that happen when you do this,

1187
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 2: and one of the things is a will which is

1188
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 2: valid but is not executable. What does that mean? Why

1189
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 2: would a will not be executable?

1190
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think a lot of people think they've drafted

1191
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 7: a will, or even if they do a homemade will

1192
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 7: and they've signed it and they've got the witnesses to

1193
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 7: go sign with them, that everything is sorted But the

1194
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 7: difference between having a valid will, which means that you

1195
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 7: fulfill the requirements of the will's act, is quite different

1196
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 7: to having an executable will, which is where the executor

1197
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 7: can actually give effect to your wishes. So similarly to

1198
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 7: your example, you are pushing out your assets, you're saying

1199
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 7: my house goes to this child, my investment goes to

1200
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 7: that child. The vehicles go yeah, and everybody is happy

1201
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 7: because they're getting something. For the executor to then come

1202
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 7: in and say, the executor is the person that's got

1203
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 7: the job to actually deal with this estate. And he says, well,

1204
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 7: it's all great and lovely, but first of all, have

1205
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 7: to pay me to do my job. Secondly, receiver of

1206
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 7: revenue standing in line because there's something like your state

1207
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 7: duty that might be payable, or there's expenses because we

1208
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 7: have to pay the.

1209
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 11: Transfer costs to transfer the property to you.

1210
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 7: There's debts that must be so all of a sudden,

1211
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 7: the thing is, we've got all these assets, we've each

1212
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 7: got a claim to it, but we can't have it

1213
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 7: because we're going to have.

1214
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 11: To sell it to actually pay all these expenses.

1215
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 7: Where if you made sufficient provision by doing a proper

1216
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 7: estate plan, and you could determine, okay, i've got a

1217
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 7: lot of clients or acid reach, but they don't have

1218
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,440
Speaker 7: a lot of cash, they can say, let's make provision

1219
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 7: for it, either by way of life insurance or by

1220
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 7: way of earmarking a specific acid that can be sold

1221
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 7: to generate this cash to then give effect to all

1222
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 7: the other wishes that are basically put in my wall,

1223
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 7: so that the executor can then sort the Holy State

1224
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 7: out without having to dispose of those assets.

1225
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean there's another issue, which is what's called

1226
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 2: and I always find this spelling the pronunciation of this tricky.

1227
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 2: It's the Interstate Succession So interstate, if I remember, is

1228
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 2: what happens if someone dies without a will.

1229
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 7: Yes, So if you die without a word or a

1230
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 7: valid will, then you will fall under the Interstate Succession Act.

1231
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,439
Speaker 7: So it doesn't mean that the government takes all your money,

1232
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:10,920
Speaker 7: because some people believe that that does not happen.

1233
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 11: But the Interstate Succession Act is very clear in how

1234
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 11: assets will distributed.

1235
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 7: So the big risk is that what you might have

1236
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 7: intended to happen will not happen because of the Interstate

1237
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 7: Succession Act. So, if you've got a spouse and children,

1238
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 7: the Act determines that a spouse will get a child's

1239
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 7: share plus one and the kids will get the rest.

1240
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 7: Where most often the spouse should be or is the

1241
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 7: only app because they obviously often have to sl go

1242
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 7: after the children. So to leave it to the Interstate

1243
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 7: Succession Act is really risky because it will not necessarily

1244
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 7: pan out the way you want it to.

1245
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 2: What does a child share plus one mean?

1246
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 7: So if you've got three children, they will divide the

1247
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 7: estate between that and the spouse gets basically one shap

1248
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 7: plus another one, and there's a minimum which you will get,

1249
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 7: which is two hundred and fifty thousand or the child

1250
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 7: shap plus one, whichever is the greater.

1251
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean it's an interesting way to work out

1252
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 2: or formula. So I mean that would be spelled out

1253
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 2: quite kelly. That's what happens if you die without a will?

1254
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 2: Does it also cost? Does it also take longer? I

1255
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 2: mean one of the problems that people have. If someone

1256
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 2: passes away, the bank is formally told they immediately freeze

1257
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 2: all the accounts. I can understand why they do that,

1258
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 2: and then it can take a long time to actually

1259
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 2: get the money out. If you die interstate without a will,

1260
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 2: does it take longer?

1261
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 7: It ends too, because all of a sudden somebody has

1262
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 7: to take control of the process, and they either have

1263
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 7: to go to the Master's office to get themselves appointed

1264
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 7: as an executive because somebody must still administer the state,

1265
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 7: whether it's in accordance with the will or whether it's

1266
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 7: in accordance with the Interstate Succession Act.

1267
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 11: Someone must still take control lot of that.

1268
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 7: So you will have to go to the Master's office

1269
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 7: and say that this estate as nigh as to be lodged,

1270
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 7: and then they will determine who the executor is. If

1271
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 7: you don't want to nominate yourself, because often family members

1272
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 7: would want to do that, the Master can insist that

1273
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 7: you appoint an agent to support you, because they tend

1274
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,920
Speaker 7: to favor people that have a legal background or an

1275
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 7: accounting or some sort of experience in this field to

1276
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:32,639
Speaker 7: assist the family to sort out the administration. So even

1277
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 7: just that process to find the right person or to

1278
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:39,560
Speaker 7: get yourself appointed will take a while. And then obviously

1279
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 7: that the heirs might not be happy, so there might

1280
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:49,759
Speaker 7: be some disputes that go on. And also obviously keeping

1281
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 7: in mind, even though you've got the interstate succession, the

1282
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 7: creditors and the receiver of revenue generally stands in line first.

1283
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 2: Sure we're taking your cause tonight O double one double

1284
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 2: A three seven two two one four four six O

1285
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 2: five six seven and voice notes on seven two seven

1286
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 2: oh two one seven oh two were speaking to Sharon Hammond,

1287
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 2: a senior legal advisor at momentum about your will, about

1288
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 2: why you need to make sure that everything is done properly.

1289
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 2: I suppose the reason, Sharon, and tell me if I

1290
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:24,759
Speaker 2: get this right, the Lord does that. And the problem

1291
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 2: is is that sometimes people become estranged from a spouse,

1292
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 2: but they're still legally a spouse. Sometimes even you become

1293
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 2: a strained from your children and in fact the people

1294
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 2: you love most of the people you want to get something,

1295
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 2: It could be someone completely different, could be your next

1296
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 2: door neighbor or the person who's helped you through something,

1297
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,560
Speaker 2: and yet that's not taken into consideration unless you have

1298
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 2: a proper will.

1299
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:53,560
Speaker 7: Indeed, if you are married by in terms of the

1300
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 7: marriage Act, or even in terms of a religious tenate

1301
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 7: or a customary marriage, or in a permanent, long term relationship,

1302
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,240
Speaker 7: and the person can prove it, then they will be

1303
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 7: seen as a spouse.

1304
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 11: So even for the Interstate's Succession Act, they can have

1305
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 11: a claim.

1306
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 7: So if you do not want to include somebody in

1307
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 7: your distribution of your assets upon your death, then a

1308
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 7: will is definitely the place to start. Just keeping in

1309
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 7: mind if you are legally married and you do have

1310
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 7: a spouse and even some of your other forms of marriages.

1311
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 7: Even if you disown your spouse, there is something like

1312
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 7: a maintenance of surviving Spouse's Act that you must still

1313
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 7: have to contend with, because inherently the rule is if

1314
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 7: you wanted to marry somebody and you didn't go through

1315
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 7: the trouble of getting divorced or having a formal separation,

1316
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 7: you might still be held liable to maintain them in

1317
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 7: some form of fashion. But there's also once again a

1318
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 7: process that you have to go through.

1319
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 2: It's not just the given sure, all right, when you

1320
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 2: pass away, and I mean somehow obviously SARS was going

1321
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 2: to get a look in on this conversation, there is

1322
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 2: still taxes, the two certainties in life.

1323
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 7: Yes, indeed there is obviously when you die, you as

1324
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:11,720
Speaker 7: a natural person taxpayer, your tax yar really ends the

1325
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 7: day of death. So you first of all have the

1326
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 7: tax liability for the year whilst you were still alive

1327
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 7: until the day that you die, and then on that

1328
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 7: same day a new taxpayer is born, which is referred

1329
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 7: to as your deceased state, and any income and interests

1330
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 7: or anything that's earned by that estate whilst it's being

1331
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 7: round up will still be subject to normal income tax

1332
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 7: or capital gains.

1333
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 11: Tax in addition to just the normal taxes.

1334
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 7: When you die, for capital gains tax purposes, it is

1335
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 7: seen as if you have disposed of all your assets.

1336
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 7: So to make sense of it, you can really see

1337
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 7: that the living person is disposing of their assets in

1338
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 7: favor of their estate. So there's a deemed disposal for

1339
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 7: capital gains tax purposes, so upon death, capital gains tax

1340
01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 7: is automatically triggered. There are certain exemptions or exclusions that apply.

1341
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 7: Most common is that if all the assets go to

1342
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,640
Speaker 7: a spouse, you don't pay that capital gains tax or

1343
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:16,280
Speaker 7: your primary residence exclusion will still continue to apply. So

1344
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 7: all the normal exclusions that you have during your lifetime

1345
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 7: will apply. The only other difference is that during your lifetime,

1346
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 7: if you dispose of an asset, you get up to

1347
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 7: fifty thousand as an exclusion for the gains that you've

1348
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:32,560
Speaker 7: made for capital gains tax. We're on death, it is

1349
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 7: three hundred thousand. I actually think that it's changing the

1350
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 7: budget recently, just going to double.

1351
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:41,640
Speaker 2: Change in the budget. Yes, I think it was our

1352
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 2: contramember exactly exactly what happened. Okay, So I mean The

1353
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 2: worst thing would be if you get some sort of

1354
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 2: tax and then as a result some of the assets

1355
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 2: have to come out of the estate and be sold

1356
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 2: or something like that. I mean, you know, it's an

1357
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 2: awful story, but it must have from time to time.

1358
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:07,959
Speaker 11: And yeah, some assets have to be sold to pay taxes. Obviously.

1359
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 7: Also if assets are disposed of, or if assets go

1360
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 7: to anybody else but the spouse.

1361
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 11: You have a liability of potential state duty.

1362
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 7: So each person has up to three and a half

1363
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 7: million rand that can pass to anybody else. As I say,

1364
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 7: other than the spouse that will pass is state duty free.

1365
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 7: But over and above that you will incourase up to

1366
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:35,639
Speaker 7: twenty five percent for any state value up to thirty million,

1367
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:39,600
Speaker 7: and then twenty five percent for the assets over and

1368
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:43,919
Speaker 7: above that. So once again, if the receiver of revenue

1369
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 7: is due to be paid and there's no liquid funds

1370
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 7: to do that, then assets are going to have to

1371
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 7: be sold to make that payment, or alternatively, as can

1372
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 7: be asked that if they want to pay that.

1373
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:58,839
Speaker 11: Because they might want to preserve the assets.

1374
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:02,799
Speaker 7: So if there's family property and a farm may be involved,

1375
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 7: they might not want to sell that asset, so then

1376
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 7: they will have to come up with the cash themselves

1377
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:10,600
Speaker 7: to settle their estate debt, because tax is really just

1378
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 7: another estate debt.

1379
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 2: Sure, okay, so you have children, have minor children, or

1380
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 2: your guardians of them, you need to make sure they're

1381
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:22,960
Speaker 2: looked after. How do you do that properly?

1382
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 7: Well, First of all, having a world is the first step,

1383
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,919
Speaker 7: because in your will you will be able to nominate

1384
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:34,800
Speaker 7: a guardian for your children. Keeping in mind that if

1385
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 7: you are divorced, the natural guardians so the father or

1386
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 7: the mother that appears on the birth certificate will be

1387
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:45,599
Speaker 7: the natural guardian, so you can't really replace them unless

1388
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:49,680
Speaker 7: you've gone through a legal process to do that. But

1389
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 7: let's say you are providing you the only parent, or

1390
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 7: you and your spouse are the seas together, you can

1391
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 7: appoint a legal guardian.

1392
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:00,759
Speaker 11: Once again, it's not a given.

1393
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 7: The person that you have appointed as a guardian in

1394
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 7: your will still has to accept that nomination. So it's

1395
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:10,599
Speaker 7: very important to have your will in place, but also

1396
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 7: to have those discussions with the relevant people before you

1397
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:17,400
Speaker 7: actually finalize those decisions, to make sure that they are

1398
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 7: prepared for what's going to happen, so that you don't

1399
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:22,720
Speaker 7: nominate the guardian and eventually they do not want to

1400
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,719
Speaker 7: accept because they might not have the financial means themselves

1401
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 7: to look after your three children for the rest of

1402
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 7: their lives. And then secondly to once again do the

1403
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:36,760
Speaker 7: proper state planning, so consulting with the financial advisor to

1404
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 7: do the necessary calculations to see what the cost will

1405
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 7: be to bring up those children and educate them, and

1406
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 7: then making the necessary provisions. And very often families use

1407
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,240
Speaker 7: testamentary trusts that are once again set up in your

1408
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 7: will to look after, administer, and control the money for

1409
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 7: the benefit of the children until they reach other majority,

1410
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 7: which is eighteen, or you can even say that it's

1411
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 7: until they're twenty one or twenty five, depending on each

1412
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:10,679
Speaker 7: person's preference.

1413
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 2: Were speaking to Sharon Hammond, the senior legal advisor at

1414
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 2: Momentum about a will about estate planning. Your questions for

1415
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 2: her at double one, double A three seven O two

1416
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:23,800
Speaker 2: two one four four six five six seven and voice

1417
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 2: notes on seven two seven oh two one seven o two.

1418
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 2: Sharon with us for another few minutes. It's ten minutes

1419
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 2: now to editor.

1420
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 14: The Money Show with Stephen Klutez is brought to you

1421
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:39,040
Speaker 14: by APSIR, Islamic Business Bank celebrating twenty years of banking.

1422
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 2: Rooted in values.

1423
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:45,640
Speaker 14: Apps is are registered FSP the Money Show Personal Finance.

1424
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 2: Well where we have with us this evening, Sharon Hammond's

1425
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 2: senior legal advisor. Momentum. We're talking about wills tonight, Sharon,

1426
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 2: is a popular subject. I must tell you. Patients is

1427
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:58,760
Speaker 2: on the line from Swetish Patients High. You're on the

1428
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 2: line to Sharon and you have a question.

1429
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:02,720
Speaker 17: Yes, please, thank you.

1430
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 8: So my issue is my father passed six years ago and.

1431
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 17: Had a will, but what happened is the attorney was

1432
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 17: handling the metal was truck of the role without our

1433
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:19,639
Speaker 17: knowledge and as soon as we found out, we actually

1434
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 17: reported to the matter to the LPC and up to

1435
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:26,120
Speaker 17: now maybe two three years ago, up to now the

1436
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 17: matter has in the resolved and the estate has not

1437
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 17: been fully part of the estates have been transferred to

1438
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 17: my mother like a house. But now the issue is

1439
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:38,200
Speaker 17: we are stuck because the helthis is taking long and

1440
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:41,160
Speaker 17: part of the money is in my father's state were

1441
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:45,519
Speaker 17: actually child by the lawyer who was dealing with the

1442
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 17: matter at that time.

1443
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 18: So what would be the next past step to take, Sharon,

1444
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 18: I mean it's a complex case, and there'll be many

1445
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:55,720
Speaker 18: facts to it, but it's very hard to know what

1446
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:57,600
Speaker 18: to do in a situation like that when basically a

1447
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 18: lawyer a presumer has been struggle for a week. Yes,

1448
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,839
Speaker 18: never told us no, Sure, yeah.

1449
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:07,479
Speaker 2: Sharon, Sharon. I mean, as I say, it's a difficult one,

1450
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 2: but I would imagine that this is a complex case.

1451
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:19,000
Speaker 7: Yes, it's unfortunate, Patience, I'm sorry to hear about this. Unfortunately,

1452
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 7: quite often the choice of executor does make a difference,

1453
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:26,240
Speaker 7: and you can only make that decision in your will initially,

1454
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 7: either appointing somebody that you trust and they can perhaps

1455
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:37,839
Speaker 7: outsource to an executive eventually, or if you've appointed somebody

1456
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:41,720
Speaker 7: like in this case, you're unfortunately, the process is going

1457
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:43,679
Speaker 7: to have to take its course. So I always trying

1458
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 7: to say, we have to make decisions while we still

1459
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:51,600
Speaker 7: can to appoint reputable I prefer Obviously, I work for

1460
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 7: a company that's got a state's executive department and we

1461
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 7: administer states. But I'm not saying necessarily momentum per se,

1462
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 7: but bigger companies tend to have longevity because one person's

1463
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 7: dishonesty or one person's resignation or even death will not

1464
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:19,320
Speaker 7: impact anybody's the states, because the reality is there's somebody

1465
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 7: that will step in the next day, where if you

1466
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:24,640
Speaker 7: are with an attorney and they are struck with the

1467
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 7: role like in your case, or in some instances perhaps

1468
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 7: even dies themselves, then everything is frozen in time and

1469
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:36,560
Speaker 7: a new executor must be appointed. The fact that it

1470
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 7: hasn't been resolved in this time frame, to me, also

1471
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:44,479
Speaker 7: says that there's possibly some factors involved that will need

1472
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 7: a little bit more scrutiny. So I would say, try

1473
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,640
Speaker 7: to get into contact with one of the larger executive

1474
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 7: companies to see if they can perhaps assist you with

1475
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,640
Speaker 7: sorting this out. You can even you can contact me

1476
01:19:57,760 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 7: if you want to, and we can see if we

1477
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:00,879
Speaker 7: can assist you patients.

1478
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 2: I'm sorry to hear that, and good luck to you

1479
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:05,800
Speaker 2: and your family in this Alan and Joe burg High.

1480
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 13: Yes, good evening, sir, go for it.

1481
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:10,759
Speaker 2: You have a person for Sharon yet.

1482
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:14,800
Speaker 19: Yes, I have so a bit of a complicated one

1483
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 19: as well. My wife's parents have both deceased, and her

1484
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:27,559
Speaker 19: father died in an insolvent estate, two separate people doing

1485
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:31,679
Speaker 19: their estates eventually well, one of the banks was supposed

1486
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 19: to be the executor, and they eventually pulled the plug

1487
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:38,719
Speaker 19: and said they not they don't want to be involved

1488
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:42,599
Speaker 19: anymore because obviously it's an insolvent estate. So my wife

1489
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 19: has got involved and she's now become the executor. The

1490
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 19: problem now is that both parents have died. The house

1491
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 19: that her father owned, her brother stayed in, but the

1492
01:20:56,920 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 19: house can't be transferred because the mother not around anymore,

1493
01:21:01,479 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 19: and there's nobody that can pay the debts because the

1494
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:08,559
Speaker 19: brother wracked up all kinds of debts and as a result,

1495
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:11,760
Speaker 19: the house has now been taken over by vagrants. How

1496
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 19: do we actually solve this problem, because you know, it's

1497
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 19: only the house before they can wind up her father's estate,

1498
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 19: and they can't wind up the mother of the state

1499
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:24,560
Speaker 19: until the fathers is round up, because this house is

1500
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 19: supposed to go to the mother.

1501
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:28,840
Speaker 2: Sure, Alan, thank you, I mean Sharon. This kind of

1502
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 2: thing does happen from time to time.

1503
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:37,559
Speaker 7: Yeah, and unfortunately it happens quite often where things, yeah

1504
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 7: like this happened. I've had examples where families do not

1505
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 7: report this, and they do not report the states, and

1506
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 7: people live in houses and eventually, one or two generations later,

1507
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 7: they want to.

1508
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 11: Sell the house and then realize it's still.

1509
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 7: Really in the name of somebody that's been de ceased

1510
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:57,400
Speaker 7: for quite a number of years or even decades.

1511
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:01,719
Speaker 11: So it is problematic in this case.

1512
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 7: Once again, administration of an estate is a legislative process.

1513
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:08,960
Speaker 11: There's a whole process that has to go through.

1514
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:12,160
Speaker 7: So yes, the one estate will have to be finalized

1515
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:15,040
Speaker 7: before the next one can go through the process. And

1516
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 7: they should really have solved the property as part of

1517
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 7: the liquidation process. If the estate was insolvent. I would

1518
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:25,679
Speaker 7: have imagined that the estate they should have sold the property,

1519
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:28,360
Speaker 7: settle the debts, and whatever was left should have gone

1520
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:32,680
Speaker 7: to the Matthers estate. So unfortunately, I wish I had

1521
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 7: a crystal ball to give you all the answers of

1522
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 7: how to solve for this right now. But I think

1523
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:40,560
Speaker 7: once again there's probably different factors involved.

1524
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 11: Sure that we will have to consider.

1525
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 2: Sharon, thank you so much, really appreciated the senior legal

1526
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 2: advisor at momentum with you on personal finance.

1527
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:52,560
Speaker 14: This evening, the Money Show Stephen Clutchers is brought to

1528
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:56,680
Speaker 14: you by Absurd Islamic Business Bank celebrating twenty years of

1529
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 14: banking rooted in values apps as.

1530
01:22:59,280 --> 01:22:59,879
Speaker 3: A register.

1531
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 2: Well US market's still down at tonight, the Dow Jones

1532
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 2: down point one one, the Nasdek down point ninety four BC,

1533
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:12,400
Speaker 2: and P five hundred down point four. All about oil prices. Well,

1534
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 2: I'm sure there'll be more tomorrow. Good evening, it's eight

1535
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:15,719
Speaker 2: o'clock