WEBVTT - Consumer Talk: Service bots could alienate customers 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:06.960 Lunch with Pippa Hudson and now Consumer Talk featuring Wendy Nola. 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.040 Wendy joining us via zoom from Johannesburg today, so she's 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:14.120 up in Koteng for a conference, but glad that you 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.240 were able to step out to join us for this hour. 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:17.640 Nice to have you with us, Wendy. 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.120 We're going to be picking up on two questions which 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.960 we're posed by listeners during last week's show, and the 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:25.119 second of them is going to lead us into a 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:29.200 broader conversation about whether the migration to digital customer service 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:32.680 platforms is actually perhaps having a negative impact on the 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.160 customer service experience. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:35.560 So more on that later. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.920 We've got some very interesting listener WhatsApps spewing in on 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:41.760 this subject, and I have to say most of them 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.680 saying how frustrating they find the digital platforms, with one 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.440 or two exceptions. So looking forward to sharing that feedback 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:51.959 with everybody, and please keep on sharing your view on WhatsApp. 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.480 Oh seven two five six seven one five sixty seven. 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.640 Do you find it convenient and easy to interact with 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.480 a chatbot or an on online form or do you 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.760 prefer talking to a human being or having an email 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.959 where a person will respond to you, for example, what 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:12.320 has been your experience? Is digital migration helping or hindering 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.040 the customer service experience? 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:15.759 That is the big question of the afternoon. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.000 But before we get to that, WHND are we going 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.720 to start with an update on clothing labels, Because towards 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:23.360 the end of last week's show, Stephanie sent us a 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:27.080 message asking why isn't it obligatory for South African based 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.120 stores to declare the country of origin on their clothing. 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.840 She said it was an issue across both online stores 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.679 and personal in store experiences, and her point was, I 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:42.920 want to support local South African made quite clothing. 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:43.240 For example. 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:45.920 I want to be able to make an informed choice, 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.040 but it's very hard to do that if they don't 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.800 tell you where the product was made. And her question was, 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:55.480 are South African retailers, manufacturers, wholesalers and creators not supposed 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.280 to add country of origin to an item's packaging and labeling? 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.040 At the time, you said straight away, I'm great with 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.240 food labels, but I need to do some double checking 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.480 on the subject of clothing labels. Tell us what you 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:07.000 found out. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.480 Yes, thanks Papa, So yeah, I was pretty sure it 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:14.640 was the case, but I don't like to so emphatically 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:16.360 if I'm not one hundred percent sure. So my first 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.240 port of call was Michael Lawrence, who's the executive director 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.880 of the National Clothing Retail Federation of South Africa. He said, yes, 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:28.240 labeling is required for products online purchases. Enforcement is a problem, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.480 but technically an online product can be sent back by 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.639 SARS if picked up that no labels are present at 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:39.040 the time of inspection. And I think the key there 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.760 is at the time of inspections, because I am I'm 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.480 pretty sure that it's not happening. You know that inspections 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.880 are not happening across the board, so a lot can 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.920 be slipping through. So he directed me to, of course, 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.040 a friend of the show, Lee, Sobriti hused the Consumer 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:01.800 Goods and Services on Bard, who said, yes, CPA Protection 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:06.239 Act and its regulations provide very clear requirements for product 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:10.080 labeling and information to consumers. It's sections twenty two for 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.239 those who are interested of the CPA that requires that 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:18.760 all information must be presented in play in an unstable 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.360 language so that consumers can make informed choices. That's the 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:24.600 point of the disclosure, right Pepper. It's always so that 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.839 we go into things knowing everything there is to knowes 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.239 that we can make the right choice for us. Section 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.760 twenty four prohibits false and misleading or deceptive trade descriptions 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:40.880 and trade description includes details such as country of origin, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:45.440 material composition, and mode of manufacture of goods. And then 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:50.760 also in the regulations of the CPA, there is the 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.640 regulation directs that such descriptions should be applied to goods 0:03:54.800 --> 0:04:00.800 in a conspicuous and legible manner. Understand, it's got to 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.240 have a label on, it's got to have a descriptor. 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.720 And it's got to be in plain, understandable language and 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:10.880 also quite easy to see in an easy to spot place. Wendy, 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:12.560 I know you've told us so many times. When it 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.840 comes to online purchases, we don't only look at the CPA, 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.400 We also look at the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act. 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.040 Does that add anything on the subject. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:26.840 Yes, so, mbud Lee says Section forty three of the 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.839 ECTA ector as when you call it requires online suppliers 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.080 to disclose the main characteristics of their goods, as well 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.159 as full supplier details and pricing information, again allowing consumers 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.520 to make an informed decision. So, in short, the Umbud 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:43.880 is clear that when the two ac are considered together 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.880 as they must be, there's a very clear obligation on 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:51.400 retailers and manufacturers to disclose country of origin clearly and prominently, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:53.719 and that the same level of detail and description would 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.640 apply to both, you know, a physical store situation and 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.720 the online shopping environment. Bearing my and that when the 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.120 Act came into being in all that was draught up 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.599 as a two thousand and eight, it came into fourth 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.400 and twenty eleven, online shopping wasn't what it is today, 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:12.480 and so I think we woul have seen a lot 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.400 more detail around that if the Act had to come 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.279 out you know today or in the last I say, 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:18.160 post COVID era. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:19.040 Yeah. 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.680 So in summary, Stephanie's right to be looking forward and 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:23.960 she has every right to expect to see that at 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.760 this disclosure on the label. Final question before we leave 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:28.880 this topic, Wendy, is if it's not there, what's the 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:29.640 correct thing to do? 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.880 Do you report the retailer to the ombit? What do 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:32.200 you do? 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:37.320 Yes? Absolutely, And I mean if you're very sure about 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.520 your facts as well, you could put it on social 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:45.320 media because I think we need to, you know, we 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:47.560 need this to be top of mind for consumers to 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.359 know to look for it and go, well, it should 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.600 be here. I don't know where this garment is made up, 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:57.480 preferred to, you know, locally made or I don't mind important, 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.400 but I don't want from X company. We have the 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.000 right to know things when we're putting our money stuff. 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.120 So I think it's a good conversation to be had. Yes, 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.760 go to the umbut, go to the supply as well, 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:10.440 and then put it out on social media and remembering, 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.760 of course you've if it's not a hundred percent truon 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.599 in the public interest, it's opening yourself up for a 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.320 defamation claim, so make sure it's always. 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:23.160 Such a fast Okay, thanks for that, and thanks Stephanie 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.800 for raising an important topic. Now, the second subject, the 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.560 question that came through last week, is one that's going 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.360 to sort of lead us nudge us in the direction 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:35.440 of the main talking point around customer service and digital channels. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.960 Last week we read out Zuki's query on air. Zuki 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.320 Makuzeni writing in to say, I am registered on the 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:45.120 clicks website for online shopping. Recently, when trying to log 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.960 onto my account, the site has required verification of one's 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.960 mobile phone number, which Zuki says is a perfectly understandable 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.720 security measure. She's quite happy to go along with it, 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.479 So get your one time pin and enter that to continue, 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.159 But she says her difficulty is been I can't receive 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.279 the one time pin on my registered number. When I 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.200 looked into why this was happening, Clicks told me that 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.120 the OTP can't be received if one is registered on 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.480 the Wasper do not Contact list and just reminded to 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:15.560 listeners that is the place where you go and register 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.600 that you do not want to be contacted with unwanted 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.120 marketing and unsolicited marketing, etc. So Zuki says, I'm on 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.960 that list because I don't want to receive unsolicited marketing. 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.440 But the only way for me to keep purchasing through 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.400 my online account was either to take myself off that 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.520 list or to provide an alternative cell phone number, which 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.360 wasn't on the list. Now, in Zuki's case, thankfully there 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.200 was a second phone available she could give them the 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.480 alternative number. But her point is it doesn't seem right 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.240 for a retailer to force one to de register from 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.120 Wasper in order to have an account on their site. 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.760 We have very good reason to register with WASPA. After all, 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.560 were you aware of this? I think clicks should found 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.160 find a better solution, was her comment. Zuki also a 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.000 very significant question, thank you, and when do you reach 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:00.760 start to Clicks? 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:01.920 What did they tell you? 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:04.680 I Dare said, I'll put it to them that there 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.320 has to be a way to avoid this unfortunate situation, 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.960 or many of us would not receive the one time 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.360 pins that our banks send us via SMEs fourth centification 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.280 wouldn't be able to make any purchases. So I said 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:20.520 there has to be a technical solution, and their response 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:24.000 was yes. Clicks is implemented a solution to ensure that 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:28.120 customers can receive their OTP via SMS even if they 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:32.439 are registered on the Wasper do not contact list. This 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.920 update was implemented on the seventeenth of October, ensuring that 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:42.560 all customers can complete their verification processes without issue. You know, 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.080 we'll provide any additional information if needed. So it sounds 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.680 to me as if they this was an unintended consequence 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:50.240 obviously that. 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.480 Oh yeah, we see it, and we seem to be 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.480 having some difficulties. Okay, Wendy, thanks for that. 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:01.680 Sorry, we just lost your signal for a second there, 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.360 but just to recap again, the issue has been sorted out, 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.559 so Zuki, thanks for bringing it to our attention and 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:10.199 to their attention. I don't know if it was your 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.079 complaint or probably many other people with the same issue 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.000 flagging the fact that it was a problem. Whatever it was, 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.160 they have found a work around and it shouldn't be 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:19.880 an issue going forward, So thank you for that. 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:21.000 Okay. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.480 So that segues neatly wendy into the other digital service 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:26.240 issue we want to talk about today, and this is 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:30.800 the question of whether migrating onto digital and AI platforms 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.160 is actually making it harder for customers to engage with 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:38.000 businesses and particularly to receive help when something has gone wrong. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.840 As a matter of interest, is that something customers complain 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:42.600 to you about often or not? 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.640 Yes, it is a common theme. They won't complain to 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.960 me directly about that, it'd be about an issue they had, 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:57.200 and then it becomes a catalog of the annoyances the 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.720 frustrations they experienced in trying to raise with the company, 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.240 which is often why are they write to me in 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.199 the first place, Because they couldn't get anywhere in engaging 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.800 with the company that they do business with and via 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.880 the channels that that company has chosen to put in 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:13.560 place for them. So that's why they come to me. 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:18.280 So it's actually a very significant consumer issue. And it 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.720 occurs to me that if companies did a better job 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:24.680 of making them selves accessible to their customers, that you know, 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.120 I would have a much smaller inbox. Yeah. 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.240 Yeah, So I had a recent experience that was a 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.000 good example of this, and we're going to share it 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.720 with today. And I don't want to emphasize this. The 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.559 problem at the crux of this matter has been resolved 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.240 and is not an issue. What it is interesting to 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.400 me is how it demonstrates this question of making yourself 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.440 accessible to the customer. And when I mentioned it to Wendy, 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.560 she said, thank you, please send me a summary. I 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:51.680 want to take this up with Discovery Healthy, where the 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.480 service provider in question. Kind of long story short I 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.439 recently had I received this claim statement for Discovery, opened 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.320 it up to find a very large pharmacy order that 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.920 Discovery had paid straight to the pharmacy and I went, well, 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.679 hang on a second, I never received that order. So 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.000 you've paid close to one in half thousand rand for 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.880 drugs that were never dispensed to me, and I wasn't 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.000 sure if this was a fraudulent claim or if it 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.520 was an error. But my first thought, Wendy, was I 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:20.680 need to let Discovery know straight away that there's a 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.600 problem with this claim because they have paid it out 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.240 of their chronic illness benefit. 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.160 It's their immediate loss. Let me flag it straight away. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.440 And that is where my run around began, because I 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:36.160 first tried calling the customer helpline. After being on hold 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.360 for more than ten minutes, I eventually gave up and 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:40.920 then went to the website trying to find an email 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:45.800 where I could send a query. Everything on the website, 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.079 everything on the website was pushing me to the online 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.400 Complaints and Compliments for so I tried to use that, 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:54.720 but I couldn't get that form to load. It just 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.520 got stuck in an endless loop of please click here 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.480 to populate the form, please click here, and it just 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.880 kept on going back to the same place without ever 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:07.840 offering me the form. So I then tried the chatbot 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:09.280 and asked the chatbot can you. 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:10.760 Please give me an email address? 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.720 The chatbot wanted to push me back to the online 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:18.280 form instead, so I thenually found please let me speak 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:22.560 to an agent option within the sort of chatbot WhatsApp 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.800 line function, and eventually got to a human agent on 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:27.800 the other side and asked it the same question, Can 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:29.520 you please give me an email address where I. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.800 Can send you send this statement and flag the fact 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:33.559 that it's a problem. 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.800 So yeah, and she gave me an address, which I 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.880 then duly used. It immediately bounced back saying this email 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:43.200 is undeliverable. So I went back into the chat thankfully 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.000 she was still online, said can you please give me 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.680 an alternative email address? And it was at that point 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.160 that this took an interesting turn. She says, we've gone digital. 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.320 We don't do email anymore, and you guessed it. She 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.560 directed me to use the online form, and when I 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.760 explained to her, look, that form is not working for me. 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.680 Plus I would like to do email rather because I 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:05.520 would like to be able to keep a record of 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.840 what I have sent on which date to hurry, etc. 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.560 Got a very indifferent response. So anyway, long story short, 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:14.880 I did eventually get that form to load, I filled 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.920 it out, I hit send, and the screen went blank. 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.240 The form contents disappeared, There was no record of it 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.720 being delivered. There was no reference number or anything like that. 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.120 So in the end, I went back into my inbox 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.480 and searched for every Discovery email address I'd ever used 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:33.160 over the years, and eventually, after trying and getting this 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:38.720 undeliverable response from about fifteen different attempts, Forensics A Discovery 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.840 got through and Wendy, I have to say that the 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.960 query was resolved quickly. They sent an auto response saying 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.240 we've received your query, and within two or three days 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.680 I received a response saying we've looked into it, the 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.280 issue has been resolved, the claim has been reversed. 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:57.280 Thanks very much. The final yeap, Sorry, go for it. 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.520 Yes, I was gonna say, I think you should repeat 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.439 that for the benefit of our listeners who might be 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.600 in the same situation. There is one email that works 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:05.800 if we have a similar complaint. 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:06.760 Okay, so the one. 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.720 Still working email is Forensics at Discovery dot co dot ZDA. 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.480 But I mean, I mean, it really was a nine. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.960 I spent about an hour and a half Wendy trying 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.200 to flag what one would think would be a quite 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:20.920 easy to. 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:22.760 Do things, so nineteen minutes. 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.360 And then the cherry on top was when yesterday I 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.760 received an email from Discovery saying you recently interacted with 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.320 our agent who sent you a follow up please will 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.560 you rate our service? And I hit the star rating 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.320 to give the rating and it went, sorry, something went wrong, 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.920 we can't receive you're rating, And that kind of summed 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:45.200 up for me where we're at that. 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.240 I didn't even share that with Discovery. 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:48.480 No, that was just that. 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.720 I mean, that was after the fact, but it was 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:54.200 quite a demonstration of where things are going wrong that 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.960 you get stuck in this endless loop trying to channel 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:01.200 you to a non human platform and after nineteen minutes 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.000 what should have been a fairly simple thing to resolve 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:05.960 to say, hey, I need to stick up a red flag. 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.960 Somebody needs to look at this claim because something is wrong. 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.800 Couldn't be done. And I'm looking at the clock and 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.000 seeing that we're marching towards hop us too. So we 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.680 will obviously feedback to you what Discovery has said when 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.440 engaging with Wendy on this. But it's not the Discovery 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.280 service issue I want to talk about today. It's this 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:28.720 question of whether digital migration of the customer service function 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.360 is actually doing companies a disservice and in the end, 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:36.400 eroding the level of customer service I see lots of 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.280 WhatsApps coming in responding, so we'll share those and we'll 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:40.480 share Discovery's response. 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.960 Join the conversation. Join the conversation you're with Kate Talk. 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.360 We're back with Wendy Nola joining us by a zoom 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.800 this afternoon, and before we share Discoveries feedback, I just 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:55.520 want to share some of the listener questions that have 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.400 come in, rather WhatsApps that have come in. Wendy, I've 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:00.000 been asking since the beginning of the show, do you 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.840 prefer do you find the digital platforms helpful? Do you 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.480 prefer interacting with those or do you prefer speaking to 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.000 a human being? And a couple of running themes and Jenny, 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.600 I completely agree with you, she says, I found that 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.440 digital platforms are useful when you just need statements or tax. 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:17.160 Certificates, etc. 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.640 But if it's a more complicated query, you need to 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.760 speak to a person. Sometimes when talking to the bot, 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.120 they don't understand you. You waste a lot of time 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.840 trying to rephrase your question until you just give up. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.760 Similar comment from Andy saying customer service via digital is 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.160 nonexistent in my experience. I have yet to have a 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.160 re query resolved via WhatsApp. I feel it's just a 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:45.480 way to avoid interacting with customers, very frustrating, and it 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.240 doesn't work. Karen saying, I definitely prefer speaking to a human. 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:53.040 I find the chatbot or digital process more time consuming 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.880 and definitely more frustrating. And then a very interesting perspective 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.880 from Alice saying I'm located in the EU. Online chat 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:05.080 customer service here is mostly staffed by real people. As 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.439 soon as I see a brand that is only using 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.760 AI bots for customer service, I will ditch that brand 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.399 and never buy from them again, even if I have 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.160 to pay more to switch. So Alice very firmly saying 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.280 I will not support your brand if all you offer 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.159 me is an AI bot and Wendy. One of the 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:24.879 things I said to you when I summarized all of 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:28.920 this in my email was I'm not quite fifty years old. 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.480 I consider myself relatively tech savvy. I'm used to engageing 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.960 with online platforms. I do so all the time. I 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.359 produce content for online platforms. If I found it that 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:43.560 difficult to get through to some sort of resolution, imagine 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:45.919 what it is like for an elderly customer who is 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:50.200 not all fair with these platforms, and especially when you're 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.960 dealing with something like a medical aid, elderly customers are 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.639 going to make up a lot of their complainants by default. 0:17:56.160 --> 0:18:00.560 Surely we should be doing better to offer them something. Really, 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.000 I love the email that's just come in from someone 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.040 who's asked to remain anonymous, and that's absolutely fine, but 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.000 listen to this. I work as a financial advisor. 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:09.399 They're right. 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:13.200 Our business has been moving quite swiftly towards digital channels. 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.800 Although I embrace the digital age, it is very sad 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.000 how companies ignore our elderly, many of whom are not 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.240 as tech savvy. When I have to issue a policy 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.560 or update an existing one, I prefer to jump into 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.840 my car to see the client face to face, rather 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:31.600 than tell them that I'm going to send them a 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.760 document to sign via electronic signature, for example. There needs 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.840 to be a better way to service all customers by 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.000 various means, and for the client to select the option 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.320 they prefer to do their business. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.080 And I mean, I wish there were more people like 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.080 you prepared to go the extra mile like that. But 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.080 thank you. I think that says so much of importance, Wendy. 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:57.119 And also I mean I look at the case is 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:01.920 the complaints that the phase onward that regulates, yeah, considers 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:06.679 complaints around brokers, and and the is very tough on 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:11.840 brokers that you know, are just forwarding stuff by email 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:13.719 or whatever. If there's a key change on the policy, 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.000 like you didn't need a tracking device, now you need one, 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.720 and they're not making the call or putting at the 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:20.800 top of the email. Please note this is not just 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.359 the normal, normal increase in your fees. You must you 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.840 now need a tracking device or whatever. And if they 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:33.479 if they don't fulfilled mandate in terms of the you know, 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.600 what they're required to do as as financial advisors, then 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.560 the decisions go against them, and that the you know, 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.720 in the one case it was exactly this tracking thing, 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.760 the broke to pay half the loss and the customer 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.280 pay the other because you should have read the email. 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:54.360 But what I'm saying is they're in that I love 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.639 that email. But she will know that, you know, there 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.320 will be many of her colleagues who are not doing 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.120 enough to make sure there was a meeting of the mind, 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.399 who are not servicing their customers in the way that 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.199 works for them. So in this country, in particular, I 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.440 think we've got the elderly, and then we've got people 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.199 who just haven't got onto the digital train, and I 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.480 mean or you know, totally alienated. So yeah, I love 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.520 this topic. As you can probably tell, I did engage 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.399 with Discovery. I sent the missity of your case and 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.159 I asked a number of questions such as, what is 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.440 the company's position on emails a means of members being 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.119 able to engage with the scheme, When did that policy change? 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.840 And how were members informed? Why the long wait on 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:45.320 the phone option, you know, is ten minutes plus considered 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.680