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Speaker 1: Right, Let's focus our attention now once again on the

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Speaker 1: Midlunger Commission of Inquiry. You know, when the terms of

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Speaker 1: reference was set out for the Madlunger Commission, I never imagined,

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Speaker 1: and I would think it's probably fair to say the

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Speaker 1: commissioners didn't expect to be spending so much time on

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Speaker 1: the intricacies of local government. It began with the Currillenni

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Speaker 1: Metro because of certain goings on at the Courrilleny Metro

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Speaker 1: Police Department, and we're seeing a parallel process playing out

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Speaker 1: today in regard to the Twine Metro Police Department, a

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Speaker 1: real highlighting of some really I think quite extraordinary weaknesses

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Speaker 1: in the procurement systems in those two metros, very much focused,

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Speaker 1: as I said, on the Metro Police Department, but creating

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Speaker 1: a sense that those weaknesses may be systemic rather than specific.

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Speaker 1: So let's go to our colleague, then EW and reporter

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Speaker 1: Tubby saw Gorba, who's been keeping a very close on

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Speaker 1: this day too of evidence around the Tawny Metro Police Department,

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Speaker 1: beginning with the head of that department earlier today, but

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Speaker 1: now very much front and centers the Deputy Chief Sean Ballhays.

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Speaker 1: Let's find out what he's being asked and what he's

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Speaker 1: got to say for himself. Tabisaw, very good afternoon to Again.

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Speaker 1: My impression is the commissioners are sometimes absolutely astonished, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I'm putting it too strongly at the

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Speaker 1: lack of governance and control around hundreds and hundreds of

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Speaker 1: millions of rand in public money.

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Speaker 2: Good afternoon and John, yes, that's absolutely right. I think

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Speaker 2: the commissioner, mister and Bruiseli Madhlanga, he made those remarks

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Speaker 2: yesterday saying that what we've seen at the Korean municipality

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Speaker 2: is the same thing that we're seeing now at the

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Speaker 2: China municipality, where there's just seems to be a lack

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Speaker 2: of controls, a lack of oversights, and there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of people who are just doing whatever they want and

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Speaker 2: unfortunately draining the money is hundreds of millions, sometimes even

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Speaker 2: in the billions of rands of taxpayer money. And I

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Speaker 2: do want to say John, that I know you touched

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Speaker 2: on the terms of reference for the Maloual Commission, that

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Speaker 2: the terms of reference for the Macloal Commission actually do

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Speaker 2: include the Gulny Metro Police Department, the Tswana Metropolice Department,

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Speaker 2: but also the Johannesburg Metropolice Department. So I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: if we are ever going to get to Johannesburg, because

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's there's a lot of stories there. Some

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Speaker 2: people might say it needs its own commission. But in

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Speaker 2: terms of the gentleman kindly appearing today, we know it's

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Speaker 2: mister Sean Paul Hayes is the Deputy Chief of Police.

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Speaker 2: But what is appearing for is that John during a

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Speaker 2: certain period of time between twenty twenty four and twenty five,

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Speaker 2: he was the key taker head of the Asset Protection

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Speaker 2: and Services Units. So now this is an important unit

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Speaker 2: within the TMPD because it deals with the protection of

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Speaker 2: critical infrastructure for the municipality. And as we've touched on

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Speaker 2: our job, you'll know that the municipality doesn't have enough

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Speaker 2: capacity to look after all of its infrastructure. And what

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Speaker 2: has happened is that sometimes they have to outsource some

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Speaker 2: of these security services two outside companies. And that's where

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Speaker 2: the problem has initially started, is that there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of these companies that a lot of these tenders, these

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Speaker 2: security tenders are given to people who are politically connected

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Speaker 2: or people who have some sort of influence within some

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Speaker 2: senior officials within the twenty municipality. But two is that

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of abuse within the system because how

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Speaker 2: it works John is that in some cases the companies,

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Speaker 2: especially in emergencies, the city would call on these companies

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Speaker 2: to assist them in guarding some infrastructure doing emergencies. However,

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Speaker 2: these emergencies, John can wind the fake emergencies, but also

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Speaker 2: they can be extended emergencies, which then allows these companies

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Speaker 2: to claim millions of friends in unjustified money. Now, it's

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Speaker 2: important to say that mister Ballhaes is not implicated in

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Speaker 2: any corruption, but it's facing basically the same kinds of

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Speaker 2: questions that mister or Mississi Orlando Pharaoh faced when she

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Speaker 2: appeared before the Malaw Commission. Is that you occupied a

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Speaker 2: very senior position within the sampde and some of this

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Speaker 2: happened during your tenure. What sort of mechanisms did you

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Speaker 2: put in place or did you do your job adequately

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Speaker 2: to ensure that a lot of these things didn't happen.

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Speaker 2: Because while these tenders or while these things were eventually

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Speaker 2: flat at some point, this was after billions of the

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Speaker 2: city's money have went to these studis security companies. So

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Speaker 2: that's in essence, John, is what her opening here is

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Speaker 2: that Goldsbels your pointed that you made. It seems that

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Speaker 2: there's a systematic lack of oversights within the fin municipality

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Speaker 2: and that's what we've been seeing at the Malod Commission.

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Speaker 1: It really is coming out in bits and pieces. But

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Speaker 1: when you put all those bits and pieces together, the

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Speaker 1: gaps in the management systems, the absence of oversight, and

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Speaker 1: the most extraordinary situation where people who were not legally

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Speaker 1: entitled or even according to their job description supposedly able

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Speaker 1: to actually sign off on these multimillion round contracts were

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Speaker 1: doing so and it was going through the system. Would

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Speaker 1: this have ever come out if Lieutenand in general and

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Speaker 1: plantlam Kwanazi last July hadn't I was going to say,

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Speaker 1: blown the whistle. It was a loud trumpet blast whose

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Speaker 1: press conference was But boy has this led to a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff coming out thanks to Tubby saw Gorba

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Speaker 1: watching this very closely indeed, and he'll be with us,

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Speaker 1: i'm sure tomorrow again, plus updates in the news bulletins

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Speaker 1: because Madlanga is very much still up and running at

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Speaker 1: the moment. I'm sure there'll be more before they close.

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Speaker 1: It's twenty nine minutes to four