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Speaker 1: The US President Donald Trump addressing the United Nations last night,

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Speaker 1: offering few details of an exit strategy for the war

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Speaker 1: with Iran or a reopening of the Strait of ho Mews,

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Speaker 1: rattling the markets as a result, the President using familiar

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Speaker 1: talking points as his remarks, telling Americans the conflict is

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Speaker 1: nearing completion. He also signaled the US is prepared to

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Speaker 1: intensify its military response over the next two to three

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Speaker 1: weeks Iran's military, dismissing the claims by Donald Trump that

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Speaker 1: it has been weakened in any way whatsoever. Joining me

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Speaker 1: via Zoom is a president of Rethinking foreign policy. He

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Speaker 1: is an author and policy analyst. Mitchell Plutnick. Mitchell, what

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Speaker 1: did you make of the US President's address yesterday? Going

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Speaker 1: good afternoon?

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Speaker 2: Rather well? Unfortunately, I made very little of it. There

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Speaker 2: was very little said.

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Speaker 3: It was just basically a repetition of the same talking

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Speaker 3: points he's been using now for since the beginning of

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Speaker 3: the war.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much. There was not much said there.

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Speaker 3: The only thing I think that was at all significant,

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Speaker 3: and even this was a repeat of things that he

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Speaker 3: had said earlier, is that he's definitely putting out there

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Speaker 3: the idea that the United States may pull out of

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Speaker 3: this war without necessarily reopening the Strait of Hormuz, which

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Speaker 3: I think would put the certainly the Gold States, but

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Speaker 3: the entire world really in a very very difficult position.

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Speaker 3: But other than that, he did not have much to say,

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Speaker 3: and he did not give any indication what his next

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Speaker 3: steps might be and whether he's actually thinking about trying

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Speaker 3: to exit this war, although all indications are that that's

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Speaker 3: exactly what he's doing.

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Speaker 1: So if he is to exit the war without the

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Speaker 1: reopening of the Strait of Hormuz, what would have been

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Speaker 1: the point of all of this?

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think you get asked that even if

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Speaker 3: he gets the reopening of the Strait of hor moves

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Speaker 3: because all that does restore the status quo from before.

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Speaker 3: There was no point to this war. There was no

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Speaker 3: from the United States point of view, there was never

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Speaker 3: any chance. And I don't care. This isn't just about certainly,

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Speaker 3: you know, from a human human rights point of view,

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Speaker 3: point of view of international law, global order, there was

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Speaker 3: never any point to this war.

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Speaker 2: But even from raw sort of corporate or you.

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Speaker 3: Know, you know, very very selfish I think interest on

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Speaker 3: the point from the point of view of the US,

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Speaker 3: there was never any hope that there was going to

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Speaker 3: be a gain from this war. We were much better

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Speaker 3: off before the war started, when Iran had offered zero

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Speaker 3: zero that they would not compile any highly enriched uranium,

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Speaker 3: They would only enrich what they needed and they would

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Speaker 3: give up any excess. That was a huge accomplishment and

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Speaker 3: Trump could have declared victory there. This war serves no

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Speaker 3: American interest. Trump may have been convinced otherwise, but in practice,

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Speaker 3: there just is no There is no interest here for

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Speaker 3: the United States.

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Speaker 1: The United Nations Chief Antonio Getris warning that the Middle

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Speaker 1: East conflict risked spiraling into a wider war, and he's

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Speaker 1: called for an immediate halt to this conflict. And the

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Speaker 1: strikes from the US and the State of Israel on

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Speaker 1: Iran as well as Iranian attacks on its neighbors. It

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Speaker 1: seems that the United Nations is what's the word a

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Speaker 1: barking dog without any byte. Unfortunately, excuse the expression.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, this is unfortunately a design flaw in the

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Speaker 3: UN and really does need to be reformed for many reasons,

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Speaker 3: not just this war. We can see it all over

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Speaker 3: the world.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: The Security Council is where the force of the United

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Speaker 3: State the United Nations is and it's very rare that

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Speaker 3: you're going to get all five permanent members, which includes

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Speaker 3: the US, Russia, and China, to agree on a course

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Speaker 3: of action. Uh. Now, you know, the the Iran Nuclear

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Speaker 3: Deal was an example of those five of all five

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Speaker 3: permanent members agreeing on a course of action, and Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump tore that up. So yeah, there's not much of

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Speaker 3: the United the United Nations can do because you know,

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Speaker 3: any use of real pressure comes out of the Security Council,

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Speaker 3: and the US can veto anything that would emerge from there.

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Speaker 1: And obviously influence of the NATO alliances seems to have

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Speaker 1: halted to a zero. The French President Emmanuel mccron hitting

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Speaker 1: out at Donald Trump, saying that he was undermining NATO

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Speaker 1: by creating daily doubt about his commitment to the alliance.

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Speaker 1: So seemingly his friends in Europe will not be able

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Speaker 1: to sway Donald Trump in any way.

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Speaker 3: Well, of course Trump was doing this also even in

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Speaker 3: his first term. He is not a fan of NATO

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Speaker 3: and he's threatening to pull out. It's not quite that simple.

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Speaker 3: If he tries to pull out of NATO. There was

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Speaker 3: a law passed in twenty twenty three that requires a

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Speaker 3: two thirds majority of the Senate here to approve of

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Speaker 3: such a decision. Now, that may be ruled unconstitutional if

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Speaker 3: it's challenged, but so it would have to be you know,

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Speaker 3: a situation where Trump decides to do it, somebody challenges it.

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Speaker 2: It worked its way to the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 3: And even then, in order to leave NATO, you have

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Speaker 3: to give a year's notice, So any American departure would

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Speaker 3: not be instantaneous. And it's not certain that he can

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Speaker 3: do it. But I think the key thing here is

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Speaker 3: that he is not committed to NATO, never was, has

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Speaker 3: made that clear all along, and I think NATO partners

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Speaker 3: need to start recognizing that they need to think about

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Speaker 3: a future without the United States, and in fact, I

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Speaker 3: would argue they'll be better off if they do so.

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Speaker 1: Much has been reported here in South Africa, but President

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Speaker 1: sl Rama Pasa being disinvited to the G seventh summit,

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Speaker 1: which will be hosted in France today. This, by the way,

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Speaker 1: follows a very public invitation by President Macron two President

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Speaker 1: Rama Posa during the G twenty Heads of Fast State

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Speaker 1: summit in November here in Joelburg in South Africa. Is

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Speaker 1: there anything that the G seven can do. Can they

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Speaker 1: place any pressure on Donald Trump to say, hey, brother,

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Speaker 1: let's not let this happen again. Please.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, there's not a lot of pressure that they can

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Speaker 3: put on him that isn't already that doesn't already exist.

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Speaker 3: He's under a lot of pressure, which is why he

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Speaker 3: wants to leave the war.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: He he is trying to run away with his tailtop

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Speaker 3: between his legs, and unfortunately he's gotten himself into such

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Speaker 3: a bad position that he can't do it. The the

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Speaker 3: the wild card here is Israel. If if if Trump

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Speaker 3: does pull out, Israel is not necessarily going to stop.

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Speaker 3: Certainly it's not going to stop its war in Lebanon,

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Speaker 3: which implicates her on, and it's probably not going to

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Speaker 3: stop attacking Iran either.

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Speaker 1: So uh.

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Speaker 3: And on top of that, we now have the United

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Speaker 3: Arab Emirates going to the Security Council and asking essentially

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Speaker 3: for permission to join the war. So we are we

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Speaker 3: are indeed seeing an expansion, and there really isn't much

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Speaker 3: the G seven can do other than to get Trump to,

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Speaker 3: you know, to look at the numbers and see what

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Speaker 3: it's doing to.

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Speaker 2: The global economy.

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Speaker 3: But frankly, I think you know Trump is doing that

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Speaker 3: already and it doesn't really seem to have much of

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Speaker 3: an impact on him.

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Speaker 1: And I suppose Russia stands to benefit somewhat because there

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Speaker 1: has been some form of lifting off sanctions on Russia

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Speaker 1: energy sources, because world economies are not able to extract oil,

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Speaker 1: or at least transport oil out of the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the irony of everything that Trump has

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Speaker 3: done here. It has enormously benefited Russia, not only in

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Speaker 3: terms of its oil sales, which is probably the biggest benefit,

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Speaker 3: but also the fact that US support for Ukraine is

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Speaker 3: getting watered down because of the amount of forces and

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Speaker 3: attention that they have to pay to the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: Trump is again trying to press Ukraine for major territorial concessions.

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Speaker 3: And in a further irony, Trump has been forced, because

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Speaker 3: of the impact on the global economy, to also allow

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Speaker 3: more Iranian oil.

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Speaker 2: To hit the market. So Iran is actually exporting more

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Speaker 2: oil now.

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Speaker 3: Than they were before the war. So this, this brilliant

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Speaker 3: move by man I am very sad to have to

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Speaker 3: call my president, has has actually benefited both Russia and

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Speaker 3: Iran far more than it ever could have the United States.

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Speaker 1: Mitchell, thank you very much. Indeed for your term and

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Speaker 1: your reflections. Mitchell Plicnik is the president of Rethinking Foreign

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Speaker 1: Policy is an author and policy analyst. Reflecting on the

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Speaker 1: address by President Somas Donald Trump to to the United

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Speaker 1: States a few hours ago, it's important to note that

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Speaker 1: more than forty countries convened a virtual summit hosted by

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Speaker 1: Yvette Cooper from the United Kingdom as she's the Foreign

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Speaker 1: secretary there to try and come up with some plans

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Speaker 1: to clear sea minds and to rescue trapped ships in

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Speaker 1: the Strait of Hormuz. We'll find out what the outcome

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Speaker 1: of that summit was as a day unfolds, I'm sure