WEBVTT - Legal Matters: What is a parenting plan? 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:05.960 Walking this talk together every hour every day. 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:08.080 This is seven o two. 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:09.840 Let's walk the talk. 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:11.640 All right. 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.520 I'm excited for us to have our his Conversation of 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:18.480 the night. This is our Legal Matters feature, and it's 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:22.319 a really important conversation to have around parenting but also 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:28.240 the legally binding parts of co parenting, because oftentimes you'll 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:32.760 find that many people out of rage, out of their hurt, 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.880 you know, to be honest and not deviating for what's 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:40.800 been agreed upon. And you hear words like he's a 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.880 crappy person, and so you know, I don't want anything 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.280 to do with him, but unfortunately that's not how the 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.080 law works. And so we're going to be speaking about 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.639 a parenting plan. Once you have decided to go your 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.400 separate ways with this partner that you had once planned 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:01.520 forever with. Now you've got your children and you must 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.679 stick to a parenting plan. Is that legally binding and 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.759 how does it work? Joining me for that conversation is 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.640 a Claire Thompson, an attorney in private practice at WITS Inc. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.440 And she's a specialist family law practitioner. 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:19.520 Player Grievening, what's so so lovely to be with you 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:20.160 this evening. 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.240 It's so lovely to hear from you at too, on 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.440 this called Tuesday. I'm really excited to have our conversation 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:30.080 today because there's so much about it that I actually 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:35.560 I'm realizing I didn't know around a parenting plan. I mean, 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:39.160 is this something that we see quite you know often? 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.160 Is it a common thing among couples that have gone 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:43.680 their separate ways but have kids. 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.920 Absolutely, I would even go so far as to say 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:54.360 that in one or another form, a parenting plan is 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.640 almost given when there are minor children involved, and parties 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.320 are no longer in a relationship with one another, be 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:03.720 it that they were married before, or be it that 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:07.400 they were in a long term relationship or a life 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.480 partnership with one another, or even if they didn't have 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.480 a relationship with one another before their children were born 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.880 or their child was born. A parenting plan caters for 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:23.239 all of the eventualities where people are no longer, where 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.320 people need needed guidance and need a structure and a 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.360 framework with regards to co parenting with one another. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:31.359 Claire, is it a given? 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.919 So when you go to courts and you decide, you know, 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.679 we're going our separate ways, and now we're figuring out 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:39.800 what we're going to do with the kids and maybe 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.920 this joint custody. Do you automatically then get told to 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.000 have a parenting plan or is this something that each parent, 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.120 depending on what they know and how much they know, 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:50.560 then decide to have. 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:57.760 Well, I think it depends largely on how able the 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:03.600 parents are able to co parent effectively with one another together. 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:09.760 So typically in a divorce proceeding, we will see that 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.920 there is either a settlement agreement drafted which incorporates the 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:19.000 same types of clauses that you see in a parenting plan, 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.840 or a totally separate parenting plan is drafted, and in 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.840 the context of divorce, that parenting plan or the clauses 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.639 that you see in a settlement agreement that are typical 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.400 of a parenting plan are then made in order of court. 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:39.240 But that being said, if a couple hasn't been married, 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:45.640 it's not necessarily a given that a parenting plan will 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:49.800 follow the end of the relationship, because it might be 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:53.640 that the relationship ends, but the parties are quite able 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:57.680 to communicate effectively with one another, they're able to put 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.760 a plan together with one another bok out what their 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:05.000 maintenance obligations will be. Various things and we can talk 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.360 about what goes into a parenting plan if you would 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:14.120 like to. But if it is that a former couple, 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.600 if I can say, are able to navigate the co 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:23.719 parenting environment independently of having any expert involved, it's not 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:28.400 necessary that a parenting plan is drafted, but it can 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:34.039 be useful for parties even if things are going really well. 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.000 It can be really useful to put what is going 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:43.039 well in an agreement so that if anything isn't or 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:47.560 stops working, and if there's any sort of discord that 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.719 arises between them, that they have a document to refer 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:56.719 back to, Because I think from a legal perspective, very 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:01.479 often we think about and though the things are going well, 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.440 now do we have a framework in a guideline for 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.400 if something is to go wrong? And very often these 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.159 documents are best negotiated when things are going well. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.680 And this is why I'm asking, I mean, how do 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:19.000 you know you need one? Because I'm sure that it's. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.560 Such a good christ Yes, I'm such a good Christian. 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:23.680 I'm sure there's people that are that feel like they're 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.920 doing just fine. How do you know maybe we should 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:27.880 get a parenting plan? 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:28.240 Yet? 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.960 You know, I think I think if things are going 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:39.960 just fine, and I think if children are older, so 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.159 a sixteen year old maybe, And I say that bearing 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.400 in mind that the age of majority is eighteen, so 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.279 if it is we have much older children and things 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.479 have been going well for a really long time. I'm 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.359 not sure if it's entirely necessary. It might be, it 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.000 might be a good thing to have, but I don't 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:01.080 know if it's necessary. If a couple or for former couple, 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.720 let me say that are doing well, they've been doing 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.719 well for a very long time in the absence of 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.560 a parenting plan. I don't think you know, after listening 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.600 to this conversation that it's necessary to, you know, rash 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.760 out brief and attorney, go to mediation, get somebody to 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:21.000 help you draft a parenting plan. I don't know if 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:27.280 that's necessary, but I would say for parents of little's 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:32.279 even if things are going well, consider scheduling a session 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:37.039 with an attorney, with a mediator, with somebody who is 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:43.200 able to talk you through a framework, perhaps together. If 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.359 things are going well, I would suggest that it's a 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:50.919 good place to go. The family advocate, which is a 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.320 free service that is offered as part of the judiciary, 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.559 is able to assist people with drafting a parenting plan. 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.800 And the reason why I say that parents of at 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.120 least might benefit from this is because they have a 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.680 long time ahead of them and things change, Relationships change, 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:12.119 new partners enter the picture, money comes, money goes, People 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.880 might want to move to a different country. And I 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.160 think these are the sort of things that we workshop 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.520 often when we talk about the terms of a parenting plan, 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.080 that we negotiate, and even if things are going well, 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.640 as I've said, because things are going well, it might 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:33.800 create the ideal environment for people to come together and 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:38.920 talk about what might be points of difficulty if things 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.680 were to go wrong. And if I'm to reference some 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.440 of the other conversations that have been had on this 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:49.840 show before, it's like drafting an anti nuptial contract before 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.760 you get married. Don't draft an anti nuptial contract with 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.960 the intention of getting divorced. You draft your anti nuptial 0:07:56.000 --> 0:08:00.000 contract to make sure that your financial affairs are in order. Similarly, 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.280 with regards to a parenting plan, you draft a parenting 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.920 plan not because you think that things are going to 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.680 go badly, but to create a framework if it is 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.200 that there is a if there is tension, that arises 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.480 where there is a structure that needs to be referred 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:16.880 back to. 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.559 Okay, so we're saying we draft as parenting plan before 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.040 things get messy and before they get idy. 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.160 I think it's a good idea. I mean, it's not 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.160 the only time that parenting plans are drafted. I would 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.920 say more often than not, parenting plans are drafted when 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:40.160 things are not going well. But it makes for a 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.400 more difficulty environment because people are often not in a 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:49.600 frame of mind where they are able to make decisions, 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:55.400 which are where there is give and take or where 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.959 there is compromise, because when there is conflict, very often 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.319 people feel like they have to stick to their position. 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:07.280 Whereas I think when things are going well and it's flowing, 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:12.840 sometimes it's easier to navigate difficult spaces together when things 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:17.280 are going When things are going well. If things aren't 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:22.440 going well, so for those listeners who are listening to this, thinking, gosh, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.120 I missed the boat. Things aren't going well. I never 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.840 drafted a parenting plan. What do I do now? This 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:33.680 is the time. So if things aren't going well, it's 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.800 the ideal opportunity to draft a parenting plan and to 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:41.960 engage either a professional be at an attorney or a 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.640 psychologist who is a specialist in this field, or social 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:49.200 worker that's a specialist in this field. We aternatively to 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.120 refer to mediation or to go to the family advocates officers. 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:57.319 Well, speaking to Claire Thompson, she's an advocate and private practice. 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.880 She's also a specialist in family law. Talking us through 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.440 something called a parenting plan, often used by people that 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.840 were a couple and have kids and now they kind. 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.359 Of need to put the rules of. 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.160 What happens and who does what and how we go 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:18.200 about this on paper in the form of a parenting plan. 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.440 I'm going to open the lines zero double one double 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.280 a three oh seven oh two and zero two one double. 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:24.800 Four six five six seven. 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.240 If you are in a situation where you believe you 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.200 need a parenting plan and you have questions for a Claire, 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.559 get in touch with us, call us on that number 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.720 or send us a voice note on zero seven two 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:36.959 seven oh two one seven oh two. And if you're 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.079 wondering what needs to go into a parenting plan, also 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:44.960 get in touch with us on those numbers. Claire, So, 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.839 I mean, I'm really interesting, I'm interested in what this 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.720 plan actually looks like, you know, is it a? 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:52.480 Is it a? 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:52.839 Is it? 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:58.280 Two columns with coromotol and you know, and a partner 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.960 or former partner and you do this, and you do 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.320 this and you have the kids on you know, Monday 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.760 to Friday, and you know what goes into it? And 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:09.840 how detailed did these plans get? 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.079 They can get really really detailed. Maybe I'll start at 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:20.360 the end first. They can be really really detailed, and 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.480 it must cater for that family's unique needs. And I 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:30.240 think when we think about our own families, because we 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.800 very often have the most insight into our own families, 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.920 our families are complicated. You know, we all have our 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:41.080 own likes and dislikes and foibles. And if some people 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.520 like to travel, for example, some people prefer to stay 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.000 at home. With regards to parenting, some people discipline in 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:51.240 a particular way, other people discipline in another way. Parenting 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:56.680 plans can encompass everything from the basics, which I'll call care, contact, guardianship, 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.400 and maintenance, which are the primary structures with regard to 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:04.560 how it is that parties interact with one another who 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.559 both have children together, but it can also go into 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:15.920 far more detail, things like religion, discipline, diet TV watching 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.200 for example, use of social need. 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:20.600 Diet. 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:25.160 I mean, if you think about vegetarianism, for example, even 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:32.720 religious restrictions with regards to what food can be eaten 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:38.800 and not eaten. If a couple are of different religions, 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:43.600 or if they have different dietary structures, if I could 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.640 say that one's a vegetarian, one eats meat. How is 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:53.080 it that this child is parented between two households when 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.960 only meat only vegetables are eaten in one house, but 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.600 meat is eaten in the other. And if the parent 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.480 wants the child to be brought up as vegetarian, for example, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.760 what happens when the child goes to the mettea parent's house. 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:11.800 So it might feel like a very very small example 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.480 when I'm talking about it now, but the reality is 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.800 that these things are really really important in people's lives, 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.400 and if they're not giving the appropriate context, if they're 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:27.720 not given the appropriate gravitus, it can be an area 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:32.480 where conflict arises. And what we want to avoid is 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:37.120 conflict one because it often spills out into the child's life, 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.400 which is something we want to avoid. But we also 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.520 want to set these people up for success. We want 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.720 to make sure that as they progress through their co 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.440 parenting journey with one another, but they're able to do 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.360 so well, and they're able to do so effectively. And 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.520 I think whilst it is that you could possibly draft 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:01.880 a parenting plan yourself, and you could refer to the 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:06.280 family advocate for comment, for example. So you're often beneficial 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.880 to get an expert involved in some form or another 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.720 to give you some guidelines as to what it is 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.440 that we should be thinking about, because for some people listening, 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:20.840 you might think diet is not an issue for me, 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.400 but something else might be social media. I think you know, 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.160 I was listening to your intro earlier when you were 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:32.640 talking about suicide and the risk for teens with regards 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.840 to social media, such a big topic at the moment 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:40.800 for so many people. It requires parents to be on 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.280 the same page with regards to how it is that 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:48.680 they are going to annow a child between a teen 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.600 to engage with social media, what the boundaries are, what 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:57.240 the parameters are, because children are also aware of what's 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.480 allowed in one parent's house may not be allowed in 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.280 another parent's house, and they may play the one off 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.360 against the other if the parents are not aligned with 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.880 one another and so for parents to come into combined 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.920 space or collective space with a facilitator to talk about 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.119 these things so that they were both able to understand 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:19.560 each other's perspectives, the potential risks that are involved, and 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.760 then to make decisions on that basis. It can be 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:24.440 a really really positive experience. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.920 And what happens if you don't agree, you know, I'm 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:34.040 sure their parents say no, I want my child to 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:38.200 be raised Buddhist and the other parents says yeah, but 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:39.400 that's not what I want. 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:40.640 What happens then. 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.640 It's exactly how things often go. And very often people 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.440 before they have children not able to tolerate one another's differences 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:56.440 very well. Single people, married people are able to tolerate 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:01.560 these things and give one another the space to be 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.040 autonomous even though they're in a couple. If I can 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:11.640 express it like that, coming into that same picture when 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:16.560 a child is involved changes the dynamics dramatically. Sometimes sometimes 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.840 people are able to continue to navigate that space quite successfully. 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:26.160 For others, it becomes fraught with tension, and under those 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:30.120 circumstances it's absolutely necessary for the matter to be referred 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:38.400 to somebody or something to navigate that with them. My 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:47.560 first recommendation is always mediation, and it's just generally becoming 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.080 more and more entrenched in our legal system that mediation 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.680 should be the first port of call before any sort 0:16:55.720 --> 0:17:00.520 of litigious process is undertaken. That being said, it is 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.440 not always appropriate for all people, and sometimes a matter 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.240 needs to be referred to the Children's Court for example, 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.439 or the High Court in order for the court to 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:16.200 make a determination. But to your question about religion, for example, 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.120 it's very very difficult for a court when looking at 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:24.080 two parents, one of whom might be Buddhist and one might, 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:29.600 for example, be atheist, to say, well, one is better 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:35.240 than the other. And so the role of the professionals 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:39.760 that are involved in helping parents navigate through that space 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:45.760 is to try and find an environment that is supportive 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:50.560 for the child and that doesn't cast confusion for the child, 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:58.280 albeit that the parents have different belief systems or structures 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.200 in their homes that a child is required to live 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.720 with when they are with a respected parent. 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:11.400 You know, just speaking about how how detailed parenting plan 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.280 can be, I mean, you know, sometimes when parents, even 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.720 if it's the parents that are you know, that have 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.479 decided that they're going to be proactive and do it 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:28.320 before there's squabbles and fights. I'm reminded of a scenario. 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:29.600 That was dealt with in one of them. 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:34.399 I believe it was show where one of the parents 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:36.160 or you know. 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:37.560 The lady lives with the child. 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:42.119 She has two children by two different men, and the 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:44.600 one father of a child wanted to take the child 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.560 on holiday, and she said, well, you can't take the 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.200 one child in holiday because then you know what happens 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.439 with what happens with the other child, and you know, 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.080 it's it's just it's going to make the situation so 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.200 bad here in my in my home. So if you don't, 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.359 if you can't take the both, you can't take the one, 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.280 right And I'm wondering is this even something that can 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:10.320 be preempted in a parenting plan, things like what happens 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.080 if I want to take one child? You know, like, 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.439 can we even plan for situations like that? 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.520 And I don't think they can plan for all eventualities 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:28.080 in the absence of the proverbial crystal ball, it's just 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.480 impossible to foresee what the future holds. And I think 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.160 if we are, we only need to look back five 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:39.560 years to remind ourselves of that. Nobody foresaw a COVID pandemic. 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:44.720 Nobody foresaw what what that would bring up for people 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.359 who were co parenting with one another. And just to 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.359 give you a short example of what that looked like, 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:57.760 children were with one parent and lockdown happened, and the 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.919 child should have been moved to the other parent's house, 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.720 and the question was whose house should the child stay. 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:11.280 Nobody could have anticipated that. Nobody could have anticipated how 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:16.280 diverse people's views were on the vaccinations, for example, on 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:22.000 wearing a mask, on going to school, on being allowed 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.000 to go to the grocery store with their parents. Nobody 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.639 could have foreseen the challenges. But we arose, or that 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:33.240 arose at that time. But I think, and I've made 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:37.600 reference to having a shared language with one another often before, 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:44.440 I think it's important to train. If I can say, 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:50.360 if we can liken having tough conversations to going to gym. 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.879 The first time you lift the weight, it's difficult, but 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.800 it gets easier and easier and easier over time because 0:20:55.840 --> 0:21:00.679 the muscle develops. And similarly with regards to difficult cons stations, 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:07.919 people don't automatically have a shared language, a shared discourse, 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.480 a shared strategy with one another. The first time that 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:15.320 conflict arises, if they haven't had an opportunity to train. Now, 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.760 you don't run a twenty five k marathon if you've 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.440 never taken a dog around the block. So you need 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:25.280 to start somewhere in order to get better, so that 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:29.119 if the conflict arises, there is already some sort of 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:30.919 foundation to work from. 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:32.920 And so this is. 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:37.800 Why I would encourage people who have young children who 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:41.000 are co parenting with one another, who think, Okay, things 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:43.159 are going really well, do I really need to do this? 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.920 I would encourage you to engage in the process anyway, 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.760 because working through some of the issues allows for that 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.520 shared language to develop, allows that shared strategy to develop, 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.840 allows us to contemplate some of the things that we 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:03.000 imagine come up that might feel difficult for us. That 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.600 doesn't matter that it doesn't mean rather that we've got 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.720 it all covered and that we've got a parenting plan 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.360 that's locked down for the rest of that child's minority, 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:16.919 not at all, but at least we know how it 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.359 is that we can navigate through things that are a 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:22.960 little bit difficult because we've started practicing that. 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:26.280 We're taking your calls on zero, double one, double A 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.119 three seven, oh two or on two to one double 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.080 four six five six seven. Do you have a parenting 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:35.439 plan with your co parent? Is it working for you? 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.359 And if not, why do you think it's not working? 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:42.960 And are you considering getting a parenting plan? I know 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.880 many people and when it comes to co parenting, are 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:47.080 learning as they go. 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:51.280 No one plans to be just. I suppose that there are. 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:53.960 People maybe who plan to be co parents, but ideally 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.440 I think many people you know would like to raise 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:57.320 their children together. 0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:59.480 But life happens. So let us know. 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:02.560 Do you have one? Are you planning on getting one? 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.919 Are you struggling with your partner and considering getting a 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:10.120 parenting plan? Zeritible on W three oh seven O two 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:15.399 two one five four four six five six seven. I 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.640 want to come to this now, Claire. So I mean, 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:21.560 we've got the plan together, now, we've agreed, and we've 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:25.280 gone into as much detail as we possibly can. What 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:30.760 then happens when one parent decides to deviate and sort 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:32.600 of not keep their end of the bargain. 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:37.720 I think the first thing, maybe just to take one 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:41.440 step back, is what do we do after the parenting 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:47.199 plan is drafted? And that choice is another one that 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:51.000 faces parties there are three choices. You can keep it 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.560 in a file between you, You can keep it in 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:56.879 a safe place, can keep a signed version, and you 0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:01.720 can refer to it as your as you're going, as 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:06.560 your framework, or you can have it registered with the 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:10.760 Office of the Family Advocate. The family advocate will consider 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:14.399 it and consider whether the clauses in the terms that 0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:16.760 are contained in that agreement are in the best interests 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:22.280 of the town. If there are clauses that the family 0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:25.800 Advocate does not believe are appropriate, they will give feedback 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:32.080 on that the family. The Office of the Family Advocate 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:35.600 will register that parenting plan, and then it's a registered 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:39.399 parenting plan with the Office of the Family Advocate. One 0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:41.919 reason why parties might want to take it a step 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:45.560 further and have it made an order of court is 0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:49.560 that having something made an order of court makes it enforceable. 0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:53.360 So it elevates it from an agreement that is inter 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:58.879 parties or between two people to something that is a 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:04.720 lot more weight he because it brings with it consequences 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:10.360 if the provisions that are contained in that agreement are 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:15.920 not adhered to, And to your question, what happens if 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:20.320 somebody deviates? If it is that there is a parenting 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:23.000 plan that has been made in order of court. There 0:25:23.000 --> 0:25:25.760 is then a remedy for the aggrieved party to go 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:28.639 to court and say, the person with whom I am 0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:32.080 co parenting has deviated from the parenting plan and I 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:36.280 want them to be held responsible. What that responsibility looks 0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:40.400