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Speaker 1: The money show on seven notes Monday till Friday fixed

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Speaker 1: to APM well confirmation.

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Speaker 2: Now, the Trade, Industry and Competition Minister parks tie expanding

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Speaker 2: the scope of what's called the Energy Users Block Exemption.

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Speaker 2: This is specifically to help ferrochromes smelters work together. The

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Speaker 2: new exemptions extended to include any industry and distress I suppose. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: what it means is that smelters that are supposed to

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Speaker 2: compete with each other can now work together to get

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Speaker 2: back up power supplies and to negotiate power prices together.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Saul Levine is the executive director of Trade and

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Speaker 2: Industrial Policy Strategies. Saw good evening and thanks for your time.

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Speaker 2: We've seen other efforts to help this industry. How significant

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Speaker 2: is this?

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Speaker 3: So the industry used to be one of our leading

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Speaker 3: industries and a major exporter of the process mineral. So

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Speaker 3: we mind the chrome all and we would turn it

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Speaker 3: into ferrochrome and then export that some of it stayed

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Speaker 3: behind get turned into stain the steel. What's happened is

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Speaker 3: largely because of the price of electricity, we've seen South

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Speaker 3: Africa lose its advantage in the global stage. So now

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Speaker 3: what happens is we export our chrome or it goes

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Speaker 3: to China, they turn it into ferochrome and then onto

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Speaker 3: stain the steel and then onto a range of other products.

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Speaker 3: So the impact of the high electricity process plus a

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Speaker 3: few other factors has negatively impacted on the sector. So

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Speaker 3: we've seen these smelters slowly closing down or shuttering or

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Speaker 3: going mothball. And we consider the data were exporting a

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Speaker 3: lot less ferrochrome than a year ago, or if we

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Speaker 3: looked at the twenty figures compared to twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: So we can see why this is. I mean, basically,

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Speaker 2: Chinese electricity is cheaper, the chrome is going there and

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Speaker 2: it's being as smelted to create ferrochrome. And we heard

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Speaker 2: last year there's a sort of agreement in principle that

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Speaker 2: will see s can provide cheaper power to smelters. I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure if that's entirely finalized. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: that's going to be enough. Most of our smelters are

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Speaker 2: already closed.

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Speaker 3: So that they can bring them back into surface service.

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Speaker 3: Some are in the process of closing down, so it's

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Speaker 3: possible to bring them back. So we do need to

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Speaker 3: have sort of some opportunities given to our sector, and

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Speaker 3: what China has done is deliberately subsidized their electricity to

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Speaker 3: provide an impetus to this major sector. And it's a

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Speaker 3: key sector and we've got you know, we keep talking

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Speaker 3: about processing our minerals in this country. Here, we have

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Speaker 3: the capacity, we were the leading player and we've lost

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Speaker 3: that capacity and we've lost that status. So it's an

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Speaker 3: opportunity to do what other countries are doing to use

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Speaker 3: our electricity. And given that we've gotten over the hurdle

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Speaker 3: of load shedding, it now becomes an opportunity to use

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Speaker 3: our resources more strategically.

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Speaker 2: There are other tradeoffs though, so I don't know the

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Speaker 2: situation in China, but here smelters are owned by private companies.

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Speaker 2: As I understand that they would need cheaper power, that

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Speaker 2: cheaper power would have to be paid for by someone else.

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Speaker 2: Now I think Escom's been quite clear. It seems to

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Speaker 2: me pretty obvious that other consumers would have to pay

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Speaker 2: for that cheap power, and so I don't know if

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Speaker 2: that's necessarily a productive tradeoff for South Africa. I suppose

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Speaker 2: what I'm asking you to do is to make the

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Speaker 2: argument for a smelter, so it.

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Speaker 3: Wouldn't be the case. So what we're looking at here

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Speaker 3: is setting up a company that would be an independent

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Speaker 3: power producer that would work with ESCOM to produce the electricity.

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Speaker 3: So the details will obviously still be finalized and it

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Speaker 3: will go through a nurser process which is going to

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Speaker 3: be quite soon, but it will allow the smelters to

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Speaker 3: work with SCOM and not prejudice the other users of electricity.

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Speaker 3: And we do have idle capacity in ESCOM, so we've

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Speaker 3: got power stations that are old that do need to

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Speaker 3: be refurbished and they were due to be mothballed. So

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Speaker 3: giving some of those to be mothballed power stations at

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Speaker 3: least some laugh and bringing them back to for capacity

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Speaker 3: wouldn't prejudice other users, but it would allow for the

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Speaker 3: smelters to operate in a way that would give them

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Speaker 3: an advantage. So the way it's structuring that the structuring

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Speaker 3: of it would would not be prejudicial to other users.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know that, But would we be able

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Speaker 2: to do that at a price that still is cheaper

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Speaker 2: than China.

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Speaker 3: Well, it doesn't need to be as cheap as China.

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Speaker 3: We just need to be because we've got the chrome

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Speaker 3: all and we then don't need to ship last vast

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Speaker 3: amounts of chrome or across the planet to China. It

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Speaker 3: can just go down the road. It is a lot cheaper,

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Speaker 3: so our cost structure is cheaper. And what we also

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Speaker 3: see is that the smelters are integrated with the chrome

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Speaker 3: or producers. So if we look at several of the

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Speaker 3: chrome or producers, they also have smelting operations, so then

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Speaker 3: that they can use those advantages. So all we need

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Speaker 3: to be is cheaper than China overall or similar cost

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Speaker 3: to China. And so it doesn't necessarily mean our electricity

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Speaker 3: needs to be the same price. So we do need

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Speaker 3: to bring down the electricity price. And you know this

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Speaker 3: does provide an opportunity. So what the latest measure does

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Speaker 3: is it as the smeltz is to collaborate so that

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Speaker 3: they can work together on the purchasing of this electricity,

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Speaker 3: so they can set up whatever company needs to happen,

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Speaker 3: so it's shared between the smelters. But obviously, as the

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Speaker 3: announcement is said, it's not for collusion on the selling

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Speaker 3: price of the chrome or the story of the ferrochrome.

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Speaker 3: So it does create the latest announcement is part of

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Speaker 3: the enabling framework that's needed in order to unlock this

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Speaker 3: collaboration order.

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Speaker 2: This takes a little bit of time, obviously, and it

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Speaker 2: actually took virtually all of our smelters to be closed

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Speaker 2: to get us here. And I can't help but wonder

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Speaker 2: if this couldn't have been done before. I mean, hasn't

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Speaker 2: the industry been sounding warnings for a very long time?

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Speaker 3: It really could have, and I mean, and it should

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Speaker 3: have been done because you know, once you know, you

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Speaker 3: lose the operations to bring it back into service, it's

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Speaker 3: expensive to regain your market share. There's a cost involved

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Speaker 3: in that. So it really is something that should have

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Speaker 3: been done sooner.

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Speaker 4: But I suppose to.

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Speaker 3: Have done it at a time when we had load

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Speaker 3: shedding every day in South Africa would probably have been

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Speaker 3: quite difficult. But it does provide a fairly neat solution

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Speaker 3: to what was a very difficult problem because it allows

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Speaker 3: the smelters to basically resolve some of their own problems

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Speaker 3: in partnership with Escomb rather than as a client of Escomb.

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Speaker 5: Doctor.

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Speaker 2: So Lavine really appreciate that, Thank you very much. Indeed,

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Speaker 2: Executive Director of Trade and Industrial Policy Strategies, nineteen minutes

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Speaker 2: after six the.

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Speaker 1: Lney Show with Stephen Crude's Live on ninety two point

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Speaker 1: seven and one O six FM streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 1: Media Plus Now and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: A report on Moneyweb this morning saying we buy Cars

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Speaker 2: have terminated their relationship with the car inspection service DECRA.

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Speaker 2: People who want to buy their cars will use the

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Speaker 2: service Inspectify, but Inspectify is in fact owned by we

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Speaker 2: buy Cars. I must just say we buy Cars does

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Speaker 2: say it'll make sure Inspectify acts independently. Warren Tucker is

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Speaker 2: a motoring enthusiast. Warren, Good Evening. I mean, it's quite

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Speaker 2: a strange story. DECRA has been around for a long time.

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Speaker 2: It's supposed to be completely independent. Why is we buy

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Speaker 2: Cars doing this?

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Speaker 6: Oh, good evening, Stephen. Yeah, this one is a little

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Speaker 6: bit of a difficult port to swallow. I mean, I

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Speaker 6: don't I've looked at at the strategy over there, and

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Speaker 6: I mean, whichever way you dice it, it's still the

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Speaker 6: same thing. You cannot have the person purchasing the vehicles

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Speaker 6: inspecting their own vehicles and giving a report, even if

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Speaker 6: they say the company is independent. You can't have a

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Speaker 6: situation like that, especially in South Africa, where you know,

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Speaker 6: it's taken so long for the CPA to get on

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Speaker 6: board and react to what's going on in the industry.

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Speaker 6: I mean, you know, a dealership has so many rules

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Speaker 6: and so many small things to follow, and the CPA

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Speaker 6: comes down hard on the dealerships. But I mean that,

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Speaker 6: as far as I'm concerned, the slap on the wrist

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Speaker 6: we By Cars got the other day was dropped in

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Speaker 6: the ocean compared to all the complaints over the years.

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Speaker 6: To answer your question, as far as Decra goes, Decra

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Speaker 6: Germany is no longer or or the holding company no

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Speaker 6: longer owns Decra in South Africa, but a Rest has

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Speaker 6: purchased Decra, and but Rest is obviously going to go

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Speaker 6: into a rebranding program to rebrand Decra obviously and get

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Speaker 6: it out there. But I think that based on the

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Speaker 6: fact that Decra has now owned by Budvest, but West

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Speaker 6: also has one of their own companies called Kabi, and

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Speaker 6: Kaby is sort of their version of weby Cars. It

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Speaker 6: was maybe, you know, a bit of a conflict of interest,

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Speaker 6: and we By Cars then decided to go down their

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Speaker 6: own road and bold their own company to do the

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Speaker 6: ins fictions for them. They have said that they're going

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Speaker 6: to bring in new technology. They are going to try

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Speaker 6: and get more information to the customer make it easier

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Speaker 6: for the customer to make a decision to buy the vehicle.

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Speaker 6: So on your time, will tell.

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Speaker 2: I suppose that the thing about buying, particularly pre owned

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Speaker 2: cars is confidence. I don't know if this will give

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Speaker 2: customers from We Buy Cars confidence. I mean other people

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Speaker 2: might go, well, actually I'm going to go and use

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Speaker 2: a service or I don't need to use. You know

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Speaker 2: that the dealers in this case, the dealers sort of

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Speaker 2: own inspector. I mean, we buy cars. Doen't to be

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Speaker 2: worried about that at all? Warrant Tuck, Are you still

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Speaker 2: with us?

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Speaker 6: Yes? Yes, Sorry, I don't know what happened. I've got

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Speaker 6: you back now, Okay, sorry your question.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying that buying a secondhand car is usually about confidence,

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Speaker 2: and you want confidence in the dealer and we buy cars.

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Speaker 2: Maybe isn't worried about losing that confidence?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, you know. The thing is they've got a mess

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Speaker 6: of market share. I have said this before. They are

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Speaker 6: there is a lot to do with the ease of

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Speaker 6: purchasing a vehicle from them, because they're such.

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Speaker 2: A seem to be losing Warren Tucker there, and obviously

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Speaker 2: we want to just continue that conversation if we can.

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Speaker 2: We'll just put them back to our producers and see

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Speaker 2: if they're able to just speak to them. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot more to discuss about this. I'm not really sure

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Speaker 2: how you would feel if you were buying a pre owned,

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Speaker 2: pre loved, secondhand used car and you find yourself in

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Speaker 2: this situation where actually you're using the inspection service that

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Speaker 2: is owned by the person who stands to gain from

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Speaker 2: selling it to you. You know, it's a bit like

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Speaker 2: we've all been through in a position where you buy

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Speaker 2: something from someone and they say, no, it's fine, you know,

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Speaker 2: if it stoods but it's fine, so okay, And I

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Speaker 2: suppose the other question is how independent doesn't spectify. How

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Speaker 2: do you, as we buy cars, make sure that it is. Now,

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Speaker 2: let me just reiterate. They've said that it will be,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure if there's a huge volume of problems,

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Speaker 2: well then it will start to basically sort of lose

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Speaker 2: market share. But as Warren points out, the really the

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Speaker 2: issue is the fact that you know, we won't be

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Speaker 2: able to we won't be able to you know, sort

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Speaker 2: of because their market share is so big they won't

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Speaker 2: actually make be able to have any difference. It won't

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Speaker 2: have much influence on them. So I do think there's

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Speaker 2: some interesting conversations around this. I also just wonder what's

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Speaker 2: happening in the secondhand car market, because as we've seen,

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Speaker 2: the number of new cars that are being bought is

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Speaker 2: just so big. So obviously the market itself may be

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Speaker 2: going through some sort of fundamental shift. And even so

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Speaker 2: that's affected as we know, that's affected people in the past,

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Speaker 2: that's affected in fact we buy cars in the past.

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Speaker 2: I think we might be able to get Warrant Tucker

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Speaker 2: back on a better line. Warren't sorry about all of that,

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Speaker 2: some of the gremlins there, I suppose. I suppose in

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Speaker 2: a way we buy cars maybe needs to prove to

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Speaker 2: its customers that inspect to fire as independent and that

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Speaker 2: might be quite hard to do unless they set it

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Speaker 2: up in a completely different way.

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Speaker 6: That's the thing, and unfortunately only time or call. But

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Speaker 6: also there's another problem, and this is something that needs

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Speaker 6: to be addressed or the government. The roadworthy centers. I've

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Speaker 6: seen complaints. I've seen roadworthies where a vehicle has got

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Speaker 6: it's marked by decra as having zero tread on the

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Speaker 6: front beet. The vehicle got through a roadworthy, then that

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Speaker 6: begs a big question considering the fact that we've got

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Speaker 6: so many accidents on our roads in South Africa. You know,

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Speaker 6: they need to they really needs to be oversight. And

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Speaker 6: that's the word here that you know, I think we

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Speaker 6: can struggle with as far as this partnership or this

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Speaker 6: new venture of Weby Cars goes. Where's the oversight? Where

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Speaker 6: is the independence? Where is an independent person going to

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Speaker 6: come and say that, listen, this vehicle is actually not

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Speaker 6: worth anything and cannot be sold. Therefore it needs to

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Speaker 6: be scrapped. Someone's going to lose money if that happens,

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Speaker 6: and that's where I think the problem is. Also the

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Speaker 6: other thing I wanted to make mention of is that

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Speaker 6: the play the field or the playing field is not

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Speaker 6: level when it comes to a Weby Cars and a

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Speaker 6: your normal used car dealer and a vehicle dealership. The

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Speaker 6: playing field is not level. The rules don't apply the same,

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Speaker 6: and that's something I think that the CPA needs to

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Speaker 6: definitely work on and the banks themselves as far as

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Speaker 6: financing these vehicles goes.

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Speaker 2: Grant, Thank you very warrant, thank you very much. Indeed,

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Speaker 2: the motor enthusiast Warren Tucker really do appreciate that. Twenty

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Speaker 2: six minutes.

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Speaker 5: After six the Money Show the Market.

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Speaker 2: Grant Nata is the portfolio manager be Guerla Global Fund Managers. Grant,

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Speaker 2: good evening to you. Let's pick up that conversation around

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Speaker 2: vehicle sales. They are the highest in ten years. This

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Speaker 2: is new cars.

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Speaker 4: No, it's quite phenomenal, and it actually talks to this

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Speaker 4: slow but steady recovery, the slow burn of recovery. We're

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Speaker 4: seeing an essay, whether it's rates, whether it's inflation. The

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Speaker 4: cheap Chinese imports are certainly helping, and cars are becoming

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Speaker 4: almost affordable, and coinflation has been quite low if you

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Speaker 4: move outside of the big brands like BMW and those things.

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Speaker 4: So it's good to see. You're not seeing that strength

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Speaker 4: play out in the rest of the economy yet, but

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Speaker 4: I do think it is a bit of a tell.

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Speaker 4: So it does make me more optimistic around the state

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Speaker 4: of the consumer.

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Speaker 2: Also, more cars on the roads just generally stimulates the economy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it does lead to more traffic, but it

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Speaker 2: also means we're all going to be spending more money

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Speaker 2: keeping them going.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's absolutely true. A lot of secondary industry backward

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Speaker 4: and forward. And also, of course, you know, buying a

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Speaker 4: cars a much bigger decision than getting your morning coffee

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Speaker 4: or an extra shirt, So it does talk to some

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Speaker 4: level of confidence by the consumer that they're willing to

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Speaker 4: buy cause in such larger numbers. So yeah, it's definitely

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Speaker 4: a good thing.

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Speaker 2: A statement from Ausurance today they're listing on a two X.

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Speaker 2: This is I don't know if I still call it

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Speaker 2: the alternative exchange, but it's certainly the alternative to the JS.

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Speaker 2: We're all seeing some other companies doing this. How significant

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Speaker 2: is this move to sort of have companies trading in

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Speaker 2: two exchanges in South Africa?

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Speaker 4: But I think it's good from a perspective that we

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Speaker 4: need a bit of competition and the JAC is really

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Speaker 4: a still monopoly, so you know, you might a bit

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Speaker 4: of competitive pressures is good. But I think from an

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Speaker 4: investors point of view, it doesn't have a material impact. Really,

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Speaker 4: the impact comes through where the cost of the trade,

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Speaker 4: the brokerage and the underlying exchange fees go is split

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Speaker 4: slightly differently when it trades through old X. But as

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Speaker 4: a man in the Street, It doesn't generally have any

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Speaker 4: impact on us.

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Speaker 2: Watching the situation with the US Venezuela, the sort of

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Speaker 2: shock of what happened over the weekend. Now we've seen

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Speaker 2: that the US is seized a Russian flagged a vessel.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I can't recall this actually happening in the past.

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Speaker 2: And at the same time, oil prices have stayed pretty

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Speaker 2: much in the narrow band.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is I mean, this is becoming a really

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Speaker 4: like it's a tinderbox of potential problems that could play out.

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Speaker 5: But in the.

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Speaker 4: Context of the oil you remember Venezuela, while they have

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Speaker 4: the largest oil reserves in the world, they're actually less

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Speaker 4: than one percent of global production. They're producing between eight

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Speaker 4: hundred and fifty thousand to a million barrels a day,

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Speaker 4: So even if that fell offline completely, still wouldn't have

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Speaker 4: a severe impact on the on the oil prift, given

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Speaker 4: that there's already a three million odd barrel surplus in

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Speaker 4: the forecast for this year, so there's change of supply

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Speaker 4: round for oil. What's interesting as well is America's looks

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Speaker 4: like they're going to just take a lock stock and

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Speaker 4: barrel fifty million barrels from Venezuela that has been sort

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Speaker 4: of stockpiled as a consequence of sanctions. And if you remember,

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Speaker 4: America's still trying to rebuild their resis of the oil reserve,

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Speaker 4: and so that takes that marginal bid out of the

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Speaker 4: market for that rebuild. So it's not necessarily a positive

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Speaker 4: for the oil price other than a marginal shock. On balance,

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Speaker 4: it's actually negative for the oil price. So with the

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Speaker 4: longer term, given the additional supply, it could come online,

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Speaker 4: but that could take years to play after we'll see.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, Grant, thanks very much. Indeed, Grant Nata's portfolio manager,

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Speaker 2: Benguela Global Fund Managers, bringing the time and the Money

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Speaker 2: show to six point thirty.

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Speaker 5: Two Stephen x at at Stephen.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen minutes now to seventh the time, and I don't

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Speaker 2: know how much attention you've been paying to the situation

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Speaker 2: that's been playing out involving the US Navy, and the

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Speaker 2: latest seems to be that TAZ, which is the Russian

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Speaker 2: state news agency. This is from Reuters. They're quoting the

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Speaker 2: Russian Foreign Ministry is demanding that their citizens on board

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Speaker 2: a Russian flag tanker that has been seized by the

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Speaker 2: USB returned home. And that they be treated humanly. So

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Speaker 2: the US seizing a tanker coast of Iceland. This is

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Speaker 2: in the North Atlantic. The tanker is Russian flag. In

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Speaker 2: other words, it is essentially, I suppose, Russian and has

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Speaker 2: now been seized by the US. They have been tracking

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Speaker 2: it for two weeks. They say it's been involved in

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Speaker 2: breaking what our US sanctions against Venezuelan oil. At the

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Speaker 2: same time have been various other developments. There is a

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Speaker 2: Russian submarine by the way, in that area as well.

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Speaker 2: We've also seen Trump saying in the last twenty four

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Speaker 2: hours he himself, personally Donald J. Trump, controls all of

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Speaker 2: the oil coming out of Venezuela and that it will

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Speaker 2: go to the US. And there's a lot more chatter

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Speaker 2: about a US invasion, annexation takeover of Greenland, which, as

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Speaker 2: you know is foreign policy, is currently controlled by Denmark,

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Speaker 2: which is part of NATO. Tim Pisa Facorde is an

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Speaker 2: international relations expert in senior researcher at Africa Asia Dialogue Timpisa,

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Speaker 2: Good evening. I kind of almost don't know where to start,

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Speaker 2: but let me just start with the US using violence

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Speaker 2: or the threat of violence to seize a Russian downed ship.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if this has happened before, well, it.

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Speaker 6: Has happened before, but this time around is much much

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Speaker 6: more concerning because this is a country that is just

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Speaker 6: annexed another country, and now as promised by Donald Trump,

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Speaker 6: market Ruby and others, that they were going to control

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Speaker 6: whatever goes out of Venezuela in terms of oil experts,

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Speaker 6: and we see that happening at the moment. But the

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Speaker 6: danger in this, of course is that is a collect

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Speaker 6: to put it today, is a submarine or Russian submarine,

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Speaker 6: which was trying to escort the by the way, the

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Speaker 6: two vessels we are told now, which is trying to

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Speaker 6: escort those vessels. And now we are at you know,

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Speaker 6: dake us drawn for a lack of a better term,

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Speaker 6: because the Russians have told the United States that they

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Speaker 6: wanted their citizens, not necessarily their vessels, but their citizens,

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Speaker 6: meaning those vessels to be returned to Russia safety.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we're so close to what people call it

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Speaker 2: a strange phrase, a top gun incidance from the first movie. Basically,

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Speaker 2: what happens is you have Russian forces and American forces

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Speaker 2: in the same place. Something goes slightly wrong and missile

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Speaker 2: gets fired. Something gets taken down and there's no way

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Speaker 2: to de escalate.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: In the past, I've always presumed, and certainly during the

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Speaker 2: Cold War, neither side wanted a confrontation. I'm not convinced

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Speaker 2: that neither side wants the confrontation now. I think there's

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Speaker 2: one person in particular who maybe wants the confrontation.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, but what's even more because I think they do.

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Speaker 7: Trump is willing to prolong the war and in particularly

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Speaker 7: life taking of Russia. But that will jeogardize the current

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Speaker 7: discussions that have taken place on negotiations between Ukraine and Russia,

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Speaker 7: which are led by the United States. So this current

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Speaker 7: standoff has got sil us or will have silus in

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Speaker 7: tests on what goes on in terms of negotiations between

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Speaker 7: Ukraine and Russia. So we'll have to wait and see

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Speaker 7: what's going to happen. But it's in that the United States,

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Speaker 7: led by Donald Trump, stug in its hills and they're

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Speaker 7: going to be capturing the two vessels and redirecting them

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Speaker 7: either the United States or back to Venezuela.

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Speaker 2: Good Russia respond in some way. I mean, there'll be

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Speaker 2: formal protests. I'm shore could they may be in another

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Speaker 2: part of the world on some pretext sees an American ship.

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Speaker 2: I mean it would be tempting surely for the Kremlin,

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Speaker 2: and Putin would need to look like a strong man.

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Speaker 7: Well, I think at the moment your case is as

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Speaker 7: good as mine. But given the embarrassment that the Russians

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Speaker 7: will facing a district card. Not only was their biggest

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Speaker 7: ally in the in the Hemisphere, which is now trained

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Speaker 7: by Donald Trump, kidnapped and taken to court in the

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Speaker 7: United States. Now you have two vessels burying their flags

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Speaker 7: confiscated or captured by Donald Trump and his and his

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Speaker 7: groups led by Marco Rubio and redirected the United States.

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Speaker 7: That will be extremely embarrassing to put In and he

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Speaker 7: has to at some point save faith, and we don't

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Speaker 7: know what he's going to do.

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Speaker 2: It's not just Russia, and certainly it's only Russian flagships

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Speaker 2: that have been seized because I understand it, and again

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Speaker 2: this comes from Trump, but there's oil shipments, Venezuelan oil

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Speaker 2: shipments that were on their way to China that are

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Speaker 2: being redirected to the US. China, like many other nations

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Speaker 2: condemning the abduction of Nicolas Maduro, does Beijing respond in

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Speaker 2: some way I mean, I imagine they would be quite muted.

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Speaker 7: Well, Trump did an aunt alone that all the oil

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Speaker 7: shipments that were bound to China will be allowed to

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Speaker 7: go to China. I don't know what it was preempting

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Speaker 7: what happened, but that was the position that gave two

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Speaker 7: days ago. But now we hear, of course that the

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Speaker 7: United States they taken over control on what goes out

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Speaker 7: to Venezuela, and they've apparently had an arrangement with with

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Speaker 7: with with Venezuela to agree that henceforth all the ships

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Speaker 7: and the oil exports from Venezuela will be controlled by

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Speaker 7: the American American companies led by Donald Trump himself.

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Speaker 2: To add to all of this, there's a situation around Greenland.

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Speaker 2: Now it's not independent, it's foreign policies controlled by Denmark.

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Speaker 2: Denmark belongs to NATO. Suddenly a lot of chatter by

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Speaker 2: people close to Trump they want to take NATA, they

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Speaker 2: want to take Denmark. I'm still at a bit of

436
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: a loss as to why Denmark is so important to Trump.

437
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 2: I get its geographic position. I get the fact that

438
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 2: it sort of sits on top of the Atlantic if

439
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 2: you look at that map in that particular way. I

440
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: get the trade routes, but it would be the end

441
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,719
Speaker 2: of NATO surely to do this.

442
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 7: Well, Trump doesn't really care about nature, remember when it

443
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 7: came in. Not only now he's in his first pay

444
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 7: In twenty sixteen, he was very critical of NATO. He

445
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 7: doesn't see NATO is an important alliance just for the

446
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 7: United States. He has claimed that NATO has been milking

447
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 7: the United States and the United States getting nothing in return.

448
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,239
Speaker 7: And he had a lot of members of NATO were

449
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 7: not paying their dues. So he's never been pro NATO.

450
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 7: That's the first point. And again, you know, Trump wants

451
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 7: to destroy anything that he has got to semblance of multilateralism,

452
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 7: and NATO is one of those. And he kept on

453
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 7: testing the waters and is reelized that the bark of

454
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 7: the Europeans is much more louder than their bits. So

455
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 7: he's going to go on and pushing the boundaries. And

456
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 7: that's what he's doing at the moment. And I don't

457
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 7: see any of them. Should Trump decide to annex Greenland,

458
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 7: retaliating militarily, because United States is probably twice as big

459
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 7: combined a bit to all the European nations that are.

460
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: Put of native well, I mean, isn't this the issue.

461
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: The US military is so big, so well resourced, so organized,

462
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: that there's really nothing to stop them. We've seen Stephen

463
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 2: Miller saying on CNN that you know, in the real world,

464
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: it's all about power, and they have the military power,

465
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 2: but that surely causes huge damage, failed states, all sorts

466
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: of other things around the world. And I suppose the

467
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: only thing that would stop it is internal opposition in

468
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: the US.

469
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, certainly. And the other thing that will stop, as

470
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 7: it did during the Cold War, is if the military

471
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 7: to top brass that's intervening in some of these decisions

472
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 7: that are made by Donald Trump beneath Secretary of War,

473
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 7: because if that doesn't happen, the world will go you know,

474
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 7: hey what And that's what we don't want. And I

475
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 7: don't think the United States, at least those that have

476
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 7: got a permanent position in terms of the governance of

477
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 7: the United States where they say or the military top

478
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 7: rous outside the exegative which is elected, understand the significance

479
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,239
Speaker 7: of maintaining peace and stability. You might just see I

480
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 7: think the intervention of military top for US speakinning not

481
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 7: only to speak to countries that are impacted by Donald

482
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 7: Trumps Dejel's ritrick. But they might just start reading Donald

483
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 7: Trump some broad act behind the scenes.

484
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 5: It's tricky to know.

485
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 7: T M.

486
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 5: VISA for good, Thanks very much.

487
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: Indeed, International relations expert senior researcher with Africa Asia dialogues,

488
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 2: there is so much going on here and so many

489
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: different sort of ways in which it plays, but very

490
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: few of them, I'm afraid to say, are very good.

491
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: One of those moments to give thanks that we live

492
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: where we live. Nine minutes now to seven.

493
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 8: The Money Show with Stephen Quets is brought to you

494
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 8: by abs A cib A Pan African Bank invested in

495
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 8: your story and the potential it can unlock because your

496
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 8: story matters as a raised the FSP.

497
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 2: Eight minutes now to seven. That time you with the

498
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: Money Show. Good year from you on oh seven two

499
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: seven oh two, one seven oh two.

500
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 6: Well.

501
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: A report on FIN twenty four today that the grid

502
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: the energy regulator NURSER, has published new rules that govern

503
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: access to the grid for independent power producers. Up until now,

504
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: there's been what's called a first come, first served system.

505
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 2: In other words, supply would be able to say we're

506
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 2: going to build electricity generation capacity here and we'll be

507
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 2: using the grid here and they sort of book it.

508
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: Now it's going to be a bit more complicated. Professor

509
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: Samson Manpodi is that the South African National Energy Development

510
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: Institute sin ERDI Now Samson, good to talk to you again,

511
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: good evening. What problems where they were with the old

512
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: system of whoever bid for access to the grid actually

513
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 2: got it?

514
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, great Deepney seven and the listeners. Compliments to you

515
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 4: and the listeners. Yeah. So the old system had some

516
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 4: of flaws in the sense that when you want to

517
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 4: build a renewable energy power plant or any power plant

518
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 4: for that matter, you would approach ESCOM. They would give

519
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 4: you a cost estimate letter that shows whether there is

520
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 4: great capacity in the area or not. And also if

521
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 4: there's no great capacity, then ESCIM will indicate what needs

522
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 4: to be done for it's either strengthening of the greed

523
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 4: or the laying down of the new lines and things

524
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 4: like that and the costs associated with that.

525
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:32,239
Speaker 3: Uh.

526
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 4: And then there are various programs that you would then

527
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 4: go through. So in most cases, the biggest challenge is

528
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 4: that companies, especially in areas such as the Eastern Cape,

529
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 4: the Northern Cape and the Western Cape. We've got a

530
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 4: lot of renewable energy resources companies approach us es COM.

531
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 4: They got these cost estimate letters. Es COM then reserves

532
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 4: the greed for them, and then based on that, they

533
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 4: hold onto the grid capacity that available, and other companies

534
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 4: that want to develop in the same area can't get

535
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 4: access to this particular grid capacity. And the biggest problem

536
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 4: with that was that in some cases some of these

537
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 4: companies that hold onto the grid capacity end up not

538
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 4: developing the projects or taking too long to develop projects.

539
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 4: Your records seven that when Minister mantashe were still Minister

540
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 4: of the Development of Mineral Sources and Energy, you couldn't

541
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 4: announce about three thousand megawards in those provinces because there

542
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 4: was no grid capacity, but there were companies that were

543
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 4: holding onto the grid capacity. So the new rules are

544
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 4: now saying it's first camp first in terms of the

545
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 4: building of the of the of the of them of

546
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 4: the power plant, as opposed to the companies just holding

547
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 4: onto the grid capacity.

548
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 5: Okay, so I mean that makes sense.

549
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 2: What happens to people who've been granted access under the

550
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: old system and still haven't used it, They now lost it.

551
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, So if you look at the law, there is

552
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 4: no legislation or any piece of law that that grants

553
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 4: those people access to the Greek capacity forever. So it's

554
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: up to ESCOME to go back to to those companies

555
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 4: and say, now the rules, the rules of trade of change,

556
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 4: we are now going to take back the great capacity

557
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 4: and give the Greek capacity to companies that that want

558
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 4: to develop based on on on on when are you

559
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 4: going to develop your your your particular project. So so

560
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 4: the ball is now back in escom's court, so to speak,

561
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 4: to say what is it that they need to do

562
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 4: to unlock that particular breed. There were quite a number

563
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 4: of things that Escorm was trying to do to unlock

564
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 4: gret capacity outside of the greed that the capacity that

565
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 4: has been held on by these particular companies. But now

566
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 4: it gives them nopportunity to go and trigually negotiate with

567
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 4: these companies.

568
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: Samson, if I may, we were talking earlier to doctor

569
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: Saul Levine about the situation regarding smelters, and there's a

570
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 2: new sure you're aware of it as sort of a

571
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: block exemption for energy users. It allows them to work

572
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: together to procure energy. And I put it to a

573
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: doctor Levine that if they were going to get electricity

574
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: at a price that would allow them to be competitive.

575
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 2: That would mean that our consumers, you know, you and

576
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: I would have to pay more. And he corrected me

577
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: and said, actually that wasn't the case. They would use

578
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: excess capacity or perhaps mothboard power stations that isn't using.

579
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: Now I realized we're in a much better position than

580
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: we were two years ago. We haven't had load chtting

581
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: for a long time, and as I speak to you now,

582
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: Eskam does have idle capacity.

583
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 5: But is that something that you think is going to happen?

584
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: I mean, do we have we gone from a real

585
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: shortage of electricity to actually having enough to keep smelters

586
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: going again?

587
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's correct. We were currently having producing a lot

588
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 4: more than than what we can consume as a country,

589
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 4: which is quite good. The smelters can obviously get from

590
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 4: some power from there. If you look at the numbers

591
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 4: during the day when when the sun is shining, there's

592
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 4: quite a lot of electricities that we're producing that can

593
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 4: can use uh TO to to provide cheap power today

594
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 4: to the smelters. The other aspect is we are partly

595
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 4: involved in some of these discussions. If you look at

596
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 4: the economics of scale, because the smelters are taking a

597
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 4: lot more electricity from the system and they are the

598
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 4: pay paying customers as opposed to some of the municipalities

599
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 4: that are not paying. It makes economic sense to lower

600
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 4: their tariff because if you look at economics of scale,

601
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 4: we still escorm will still be able to recover the

602
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 4: cost of generation and make and still make the minimum

603
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 4: allowable profit. When when you look at the new tarts

604
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 4: that the Minister has been negotiating with the smelters, and

605
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 4: that's very, very critical because the smelters are part of

606
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 4: the bigger scheme of things when it comes to our economy.

607
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 4: Our economy has been struggling for quite a long time

608
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 4: and if we don't have this kind of interventions, they

609
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 4: will close down and alongside the job losses when it

610
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 4: comes to to the smelters as.

611
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: Well, it is astonishing how quickly all of this has

612
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: changed two short years from sort of quite intense load

613
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: shedding to none at all, to excess electricity.

614
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 4: That's correct. It's mainly because of the implementation of the

615
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 4: President's Energy Action Plan and the and the you know,

616
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 4: the persistent uh uh uh follow ups by by the

617
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 4: Minister of electricity. When it comes to the operation Generation

618
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 4: Recovery plan that ESCOM has been implementing as part of

619
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 4: the President's Energy Action Plan. We your records, given that

620
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 4: in the past we re touched on this to say

621
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 4: we will see the fruits of this plane. We will

622
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 4: see them at a later stage. You know, when it

623
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 4: was introduced, people are saying it's not going to wake,

624
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 4: and because everybody was tiniking, we're at a very intense

625
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 4: levels of load shedding Stage six load shedding and all that,

626
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 4: and and some of us kept saying, give this plane

627
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 4: a chance, you will see that it will wake. And

628
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 4: the other magic bullet to us the fact that the

629
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 4: government gave that two hundred and six billion to ESCOM

630
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 4: to save this their dead and then unlocking some of

631
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 4: the money from the ESCOM channel balance sheet for them

632
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 4: to be able to use that money to renew some

633
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 4: of the of the cold fleet, the units that that

634
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 4: we're giving problems alongside the other interventions, including the the

635
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 4: high levels of high penetration of renewable energy, the six

636
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 4: giga was that we've seen roof pop Sola PZ from

637
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 4: households and businesses, plus the renewable energy independent power sales

638
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 4: program all that is assisting us in terms of dealing

639
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 4: with our security of energy supply.

640
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 2: Professor Samson mon Poeri, thank you so much. Learned something

641
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: on The Money Show tonight from the South African National

642
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 2: Energy Development Institute Sinadi Okay, So, does look like smelters

643
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 2: are going to come back online? Lots of things changing

644
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 2: in our electricity sector with the Money Show just after

645
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: seven o'clock The.

646
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 5: Money Show business unusual.

647
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: Well, lots of things going to change this year, and

648
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 2: of the way in which you work is probably one

649
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 2: of them. The office that you work in is likely

650
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 2: to be one of them as well. Advita and I

651
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: do is the Africa AMD at jack Hammer Global Adveita,

652
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 2: Good evening. We know that things are going to change,

653
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: and particularly around AI, we've seen a lot more adoption

654
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 2: of it.

655
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 5: Not everything is changing, though. What are you seeing that's

656
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 5: changing and what do you think going to stay the same?

657
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 9: Well, Stephen, thanks for having me so, I mean, great question,

658
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 9: great one to kick off the year.

659
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 7: So.

660
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 9: I think we're seeing the automation of load judgment tasks

661
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 9: and a lot of professions, you know, the type of

662
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 9: routine research, the first draft, the basic analysis, coordination, reporting,

663
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 9: and these functions used to justify layers and layers of

664
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 9: junior and support roles, and in a lot of organizations

665
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 9: they no longer do. So that's what's changed. But what's

666
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 9: really saying the same and what keeps me in three

667
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 9: years the need fushuman judgment. If anything, that requirement is

668
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 9: actually intensifying because decision making under uncertainty and prioritization and interpretation,

669
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 9: those are all fundamentally still human responsibilities. So everyone should

670
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 9: really remember that AI can generate options for you, but

671
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 9: it can't own the consequences of the choices that you make.

672
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 9: So the shift is less about job loss and more

673
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 9: about job compression, you know, sort of fewer roles, broader mandates,

674
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 9: and more expectations.

675
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: I think sometimes they are also just judgment calls on facts.

676
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: We can see something and know that it just feels

677
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: a bit odd, whereas AI doesn't know that it feels

678
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: a bit odd because it's not a human being.

679
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 9: Absolutely. I think that's really the critical that the cruckt

680
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 9: that a lot of people miss, that meaningful use of

681
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 9: AI hingers on essentially what data literacy. Then it don't

682
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 9: have to be advanced analytics, but comfort with data or

683
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 9: output as a language means knowing what question you're actually

684
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 9: trying to answer, understanding what input and output is relevant,

685
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 9: and really being able to interpret outputs critically rather than

686
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 9: taking them and face value, which, as you say, AAR

687
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 9: cannot do.

688
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 2: Back to comprehension in English classes at school, I think

689
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 2: a lot of people have. You know, more and more

690
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: people have used AI, gone on to chat GBT and

691
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 2: asked them to write a poem or something, but being

692
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: more meaningful about it. How is that going to change?

693
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: I suppose it's about being more productive, and within that,

694
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 2: it's being more productive for human beings. It's improving the

695
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 2: state of human beings, not just usy AI because your

696
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 2: boss said you must yes.

697
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 9: And I think we've all heard for a while now

698
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 9: that AIR is never going to replace the people or

699
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 9: it will replace the people who don't know how to

700
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 9: use the AI. And the people who struggle are the

701
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,959
Speaker 9: ones who treat it as a novelty or as something

702
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 9: that they must do, versus the one who treat it

703
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 9: as infrastructure. And so the distinction is between using it

704
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 9: occasionally and then embedding it into how work actually gets

705
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 9: done in your environments. An impractical terms professionals should be

706
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 9: using it to remove friction from their work, accelerating their research,

707
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 9: pressure testing their thinking, drafting alternatives where possible, and interrogating

708
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 9: assumptions like we said earlier, because critically, the value lies

709
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 9: in what you do after the output appears, how you

710
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 9: refine it, validated, and apply judgment. And it's always going

711
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 9: to come back.

712
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 10: To applying judgment.

713
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: One of the big trends you see in the workplace

714
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: in almost all fields is specialization versus generalization.

715
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 5: Does a change that, yes or Noah?

716
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 9: I think it's it's an interesting one. It's not that

717
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 9: pure specialization is disappearing. It's just not enough anymore to

718
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 9: be what the Americans call an individual contributor, because that

719
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 9: deep technical that's a technical specialist with a narrow focus.

720
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 9: So we're seeing a move away from the narrow technical

721
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 9: expertise the people who operate in isolation, towards the people

722
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 9: who can translate the expertise into execution across functions, across disciplines,

723
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 9: across different business problems. So their competence is deep enough

724
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 9: to you know, know the content inside out, but broad

725
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,439
Speaker 9: enough to understand the commercial context and the downstream impact.

726
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 4: Of what they're doing.

727
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting to see how it pans out.

728
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 5: But I know.

729
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 2: The thing I keep coming back to and is a

730
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: bit like what happened during COVID, which is what happens

731
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: to younger people, because most of us, our first jobs

732
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 2: in what we do now was something a little maybe

733
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: menials the wrong word, but something a little repetitive. And

734
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 2: what you did was you learned the business. It wasn't

735
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: the glamorous decision making stuff. You had to learn often

736
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 2: from other people, how that was done. Doesn't that contain

737
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 2: a big risk for companies? I mean you look at

738
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 2: I mean fifteen ten years ago, we were all told

739
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 2: to teach our children coding. I don't think there are

740
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:10,439
Speaker 2: many jobs in that now.

741
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 9: I mean, honestly, this is something that I would worry

742
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 9: about if I was a senior of a large company,

743
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 9: because I think a lot of companies are aggressively reducing

744
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 9: these junior and entry level evolved because AI can perform

745
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 9: a lot of that foundational work. And in the short term,

746
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 9: obviously the economics are compelling, there's no doubt doubt about that.

747
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 9: But like you say, the long term risk is the

748
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 9: pipeline eversion because judgment again, I'm coming back to that.

749
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 9: It's not innate. It is developed through the exposure, the repetition,

750
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 9: the error, and the course correction. And that's the type

751
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 9: of on the job training that younger people that we

752
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 9: all received. But if these early career roles disappear, organizations

753
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 9: are going to find themselves with no internal bench. There's

754
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 9: a dearth of mid career leaders who have developed that

755
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 9: necessary pattern recognition for want of a better word, and

756
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 9: the decision making capability for themselves.

757
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: So how does a thoughtful organization manage that?

758
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 5: Then?

759
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: Because you need to have young people around I mean,

760
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: I know this as I get older, if I don't

761
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: have young people around me, I'm going to do the

762
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 2: wrong thing. I'm not going to understand how the world

763
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: is changing. And I can't go to you know, chat

764
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: ChiPT JR. That's not going to help me at all.

765
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: So how do you sort of be thoughtful about this,

766
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: make sure you have the right pipeline and also make

767
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 2: sure you're keeping young people employed, which is becoming more

768
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: and more important.

769
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, look, I think this is going to

770
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 9: be a very existential and philosophical question for a lot

771
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 9: of companies rather than a hardcore bottom line economic question.

772
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 9: But as I said, you know a lot of companies

773
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 9: are optimizing aggressively for the short term productivity in the

774
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 9: economic gains, but they aren't taking enough responsibility for the

775
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 9: long term consequences of these decisions. They're evading their talent

776
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 9: pipelines by over automating the early career rules. They may

777
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,439
Speaker 9: also be eroding the future customer base if you think

778
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 9: about it. But I think the more thoughtful organizations, they

779
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 9: aren't preserving these junior rules unchanged, and they're not eliminating

780
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 9: they're just redesigning them. So they are using it to

781
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 9: remove administrative burden. But they're also deliberately and intentionally increasing

782
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 9: exposure to real decisions earlier in a career. I think

783
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 9: they view AI as a way to reduce learning time

784
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 9: or to make it high quality time, rather than eliminate

785
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 9: the learning phase altogether. So you know, they're not just

786
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 9: saving millions and reduce headcounts. They're the ones who are

787
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 9: combining technology with discipline in investment in human capability.

788
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm fascinated because tied to young people is

789
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 2: whether or not people are working in an office or not.

790
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 2: And I do wonder if in some places and I

791
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: mean just that the people I spend time with socially

792
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 2: are kind of fifty to fifty now. But I do

793
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 2: wonder if we're actually going to see a move one

794
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 2: way or another. Do you see that balance changing in

795
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 2: the next twelve months?

796
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 10: I do.

797
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 9: And I think you know we've spoken about this before,

798
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 9: is that young career professionals, you know, early career individuals

799
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 9: should really welcome the opportunity to be in the in

800
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 9: the office. There's this type of learning bios mosis that

801
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 9: cannot happen remotely. You know, we talk about it in

802
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 9: terms of proximity bias, and you know, people who are

803
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 9: closer to the decision makers get better opportunities. It's not

804
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 9: just the better opportunities, they have better learning experiences when

805
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 9: they're exposed to the thinking that goes into making decisions.

806
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 9: So honestly, anyone who values career acceleration should welcome the

807
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 9: chance to at least part of the time be in

808
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 9: the office.

809
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 2: Adeit than I do, thanks very much, indeed, really appreciate

810
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: that the Africa AMDA jack Hammer Global. I don't know

811
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 2: how you're feeling as you go back to the office.

812
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: If you go as you go back to work. I

813
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 2: should say about what's going to change or not? Oh

814
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: seven two seven two one seven o two The.

815
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: Money Show on seven oas Monday till Friday six to apm.

816
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,720
Speaker 2: I've been thinking a little bit about the decision announced

817
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: last night by the President to appoint Andy Motibi, the

818
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 2: former head of the SIU, as the new National Director

819
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: of Public Prosecutions, and there are many different ways to

820
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 2: look at it. I share the concerns of many other people.

821
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: You started a process, now you've just abandoned it. I

822
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 2: do think that whoever put the panel that was looking

823
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 2: at the potential candidates to be the National Director of

824
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 2: Public Prosecutions needs to explain why they had those people

825
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: on that panel and not others. There are no prosecutors there,

826
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 2: or former prosecutors, for example. There are some other consequences

827
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: from what Rama Porsa has done, though I don't think

828
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 2: I don't think you can really sort of detract from

829
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: Mutib's track record. He's done amazing things in the past,

830
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 2: and particularly with the SIU. There's been no hint of

831
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: a scandal around him in any way, and so you

832
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: get a sense that actually he is absolutely the right

833
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 2: person for the job, in which case, you ask, well,

834
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 2: why was he not a front runner before? The answer

835
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 2: may as GLENNS. Breidenbach has pointed out, lie in his

836
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: age is I understand around sixty three for various reasons

837
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: that really have not changed and have not been kept

838
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: up to date. The laws says he would have to

839
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 2: retire from that position at sixty five, and in fact,

840
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 2: I think that's why Schimilatori is retiring because of her age.

841
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 2: This is what the law says, so he would be

842
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 2: there for two years.

843
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 5: Now.

844
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 2: Here's the other longer term consequence. If things politically stay

845
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 2: roughly as they are, two years from now, takes us

846
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 2: to twenty twenty eight, we're next to you an election.

847
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 2: Unless the coalition falls or something dramatic happens, we're next

848
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: to an election in twenty twenty nine. The ANC is

849
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: due to have its electoral internal leadership discussions and election

850
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: at the end of twenty twenty seven. No matter what

851
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 2: happens there, On balance, it would seem likely that Roma

852
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: Pausa is still the present at the beginning of twenty

853
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 2: twenty eight. As Matibi retires, he would be in his

854
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: last year as present, but he would still be president,

855
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: which means that the next National Director of Public Prosecutions,

856
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 2: who would start a term I think at seven years,

857
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: would be appointed by Roma Pausa, which means that the Ramapausa,

858
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: the consequences of a decision by Ramapausa would go on

859
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 2: for a very long time after the end of the

860
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 2: Rama Pausa presidency. And isn't that interesting. One of the

861
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 2: consequences of this, and I don't think this was deliberate,

862
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 2: but one of the consequences of this is that it

863
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 2: increases and extends Ramapausa's influence on who will be the

864
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 2: National Director of Public Prosecutions for a very long time

865
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 2: if he's still president. In twenty twenty eight, twenty minutes

866
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 2: after seven.

867
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 11: The Money Show Consumer Ninja, Well, while you've been away,

868
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 11: I hope you haven't been thinking about homeowner's insurance, but

869
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 11: some people have probably found that actually there's no way

870
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 11: for them to avoid it.

871
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 2: The whole point of homeowner's insurances if something comes along

872
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,720
Speaker 2: and recks your home, well you're ensured if that happens,

873
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: I mean, completely life changing if it happens to you.

874
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 2: But now it would seem there's some suggestions that in

875
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 2: fact people are having their claims denied because walls or

876
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,280
Speaker 2: roofs or something else were not built according to proper

877
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: regulations or weren't properly maintained. Wendy Nola is your consumer, Ninja,

878
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 2: Wendy complimens of the season to you. How do you

879
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 2: make sure that this doesn't happen to you?

880
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 10: Hi, Steven got to be back with you. Yeah, it's

881
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 10: a big one. And I decided to talk about it

882
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 10: day because a, it's the beginning of the year and

883
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 10: we should be doing all these sort of cleverer things,

884
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 10: and because I got a just had a complaint in

885
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 10: from somebody who had their homeowner's insurance rejected insurance claim

886
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 10: rather rejected for this reason the big storm hailstorm in

887
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 10: Pretoria of just over a month ago, and the claim

888
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 10: was partly rejected. I haven't got details on that yet,

889
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 10: because of the slope of the roof that it wasn't

890
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 10: sufficient for the run off of the water in the storm.

891
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 10: Never matter of fact that the actual huge hailstones blocking

892
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 10: the runoff right. And when she objected, they came back

893
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 10: to her and said, this house, which she bought in

894
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 10: twenty twenty one, the roof was not built according to

895
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 10: building regulations, even though when they bought it just over

896
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 10: four years ago, they had the plans and city inspections

897
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 10: and certifications and everything all in order. So I'm going

898
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 10: to ask you to to object to that larger complaint

899
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 10: with the NFO, the mbitsmen. But this is so so common.

900
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 10: It's not not properly bought according to regulations as a reason.

901
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 10: It's you didn't maintain your house, and so you think

902
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,439
Speaker 10: you've got this massive cover you're paint for it every month,

903
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 10: but you just don't have it, and that could wreck

904
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 10: you financially.

905
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 12: You know.

906
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I would have thought, and I presume that

907
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 2: there is a kind of way that they're assessed, and

908
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 2: if you buy a house, if you bought it relatively recently,

909
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: there'll be some kind of assessment or inspection and if

910
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: it passed that, well, then you're good to go.

911
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 10: Okay. So that is the most widely held misconception. I

912
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 10: get it in every single one of the complaints I

913
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 10: get about a rejected homeowner's complaint, every single one steved.

914
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 10: And this is a misconception. The most people have the

915
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 10: their homemadner's insurance is offered by the insurance division of

916
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 10: the bank. That's financing their home, right, they say to me,

917
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 10: But the assessor, the banks and the assessor, and I

918
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 10: assumed they had done all the necessary checks and they approved,

919
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 10: and so I'm good to go. But actually the assessor

920
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 10: is then, And I really do think the banks could

921
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 10: do a better job of explaining this, to say, to

922
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 10: train the assessors to say, I'm not here checking that

923
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 10: your built your walls are built to regulations and that

924
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 10: your roof complies, et cetera. I'm here to see that

925
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 10: there's enough equit in this house for the bank to

926
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 10: approve the loan that you're asking for, right, Because I mean,

927
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 10: people just make this assumption that I think it's got

928
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 10: the tick of approval. But that tick of approval will

929
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 10: come only if you pay extra for it and you

930
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 10: get an independent company in that knows about these things,

931
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 10: that checks everything to say, you know, there's a problem.

932
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 10: There isn't robbing there or this this boundary wall is

933
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 10: definitely not going to be considered compliant and you don't have

934
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 10: a problem if you have a plan. So but yeah,

935
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 10: I really want to talk about this, and I talk

936
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 10: about it at least once a year, because this lisperception

937
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 10: costs people an awful lot of money.

938
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: Sure, but I mean if you can approve building plans

939
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 2: and all of that when you baught a house and

940
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 2: only four years ago, I mean you'd have no reason

941
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 2: to think. And then also at the back of it,

942
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: if there's catastrophic damage to your home and insurance doesn't

943
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 2: pay out, the bank is the one that stands to

944
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 2: lose out too.

945
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 10: They do because if you've got to pay out three

946
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 10: hundred thousand rands, you at risk of not being able

947
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 10: to keep up your repayments to the home. And then

948
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 10: we have to go through all that ugliness of you

949
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,760
Speaker 10: either you selling or then repossessing. So the implications are vast.

950
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 10: But so there's something. There are two things and I

951
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 10: speak about this a lot too. Number One, before you buy,

952
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 10: you should get that independent assessment done. But then regular

953
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 10: and I'm going to walk my talk here. I've made

954
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 10: an appointment to have some company come out to our

955
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 10: home now this month is to get them in and

956
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 10: you and you you must ask them this question. Do

957
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 10: you have the expertise and your company for somebody to

958
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,760
Speaker 10: act like an insurance assessor and go through my home

959
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 10: and tell me where my weak points are, where the

960
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 10: house's weak points or that are going to make me vulnerable.

961
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 10: It is a big storm that hits share in the Cape.

962
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 10: We worry about winter storms and I'm going to I'm

963
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 10: going to be left having to fund this on my

964
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 10: own or lose my home over it and pay them

965
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 10: the few hundred rand it's really not a lot of money.

966
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 10: Get the information I need and then make the necessary repairs.

967
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,919
Speaker 10: And the other thing is to regularly have at least

968
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 10: once a year. We don't do this because if we

969
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 10: don't think of it, and it's you know, we don't

970
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 10: want to spend money there. But have your roof checked

971
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 10: and your guts checked. Have the invoices that ever claims rejected,

972
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 10: you can say, ha, you're not going to catch me

973
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,760
Speaker 10: on a lack of maintenance, Thank you very much, insurance company. Yeah,

974
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 10: that's my proof that I've been maintaining my home.

975
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 2: I mean, do you find other reasons why storm related

976
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 2: damage claims are actually rejected?

977
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 5: I mean the other things that come along.

978
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 10: So it would be defective construction, so yes, so that

979
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 10: would fall under well, it's sort of aligned to not

980
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 10: having proper building regulations, but not entirely that designs laws.

981
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 10: So in the actual plans brought up for your home,

982
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 10: and then the and poor maintenance. That's a big one,

983
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 10: those four that you know. I see it over and

984
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 10: over again, especially just after you know, major storm events

985
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 10: wherever you know upcountry and then down here in the

986
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 10: Cape they flood in. And if you you know, if

987
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 10: you go on to if you look at what the

988
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 10: NFO the opposite is putting out. They're always warning about this.

989
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 10: And if you don't have can't show up a regular maintenance,

990
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 10: and your plans aren't can't be found to be compliant,

991
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 10: then they have to side with the insurer and they do.

992
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: Is there anything else you can do to avoid this?

993
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: I mean you could get the independent company that costs money.

994
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: In the end, it's all about the homework. And I

995
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 2: know you're going to tell me once again ween need

996
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: to read the small print.

997
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 10: Yeah, I read the spall print and get professional help.

998
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 10: We can't do this unless you're in the industry. You

999
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 10: can't know where your vulnerabilities are in the house and

1000
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 10: the construction or whatever. You can actually keep your maintenance up,

1001
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 10: but if your claim is never going to succeed because

1002
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 10: you know the wall was non compliant, then you're on

1003
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 10: a hiding to nothing. So you need to get the

1004
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 10: professional in and you need to do your maintenance. It's

1005
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 10: all boring, expensive stuff, but it's a lot less expensive

1006
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 10: than having a claim tonight. And just one last thing,

1007
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 10: we don't have the wherewithal as lay people to argue

1008
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 10: proximate cause, because that's the issue here. Was the proximate

1009
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 10: cause the slope of the roof being wrong, or was

1010
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 10: the proximate cause there was just this extraordinary storm with

1011
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 10: these huge hailstorms that block the runof water, even if

1012
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 10: the roof was the correct living slope. So so experts can

1013
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 10: do that for you. But I'm saying, hire someone who

1014
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 10: has who will think and act like an assessor and

1015
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 10: show you where you're vulnerable and give you the opportunity

1016
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 10: to fix it.

1017
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 2: We Wendy and Nola consumer Ninja. Interesting start to twenty

1018
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: twenty six, Thank you very much. Indeed, no money show

1019
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: with seven lots of reporting Tonight, the National Freedom Parties

1020
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,280
Speaker 2: withdrawing from the Government of Provincial Unity in Qua Zulin Hotel.

1021
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: And this opens the door, of course, as I understand

1022
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 2: that the party is insisting that it's NEC resigned. She

1023
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: last year voted against the motion of no confidence in

1024
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 2: the government that had been brought by on Conto with

1025
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 2: Sesquare and as I understand the maths, it's so finely balanced.

1026
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 2: But because the Speaker has to recuse herself from a

1027
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 2: vote like that, unless it's a tie that takes the

1028
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 2: number of people in Quazulin Hotel's legislature to a seventy

1029
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: nine rather than eighty. If MK is able to get

1030
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,919
Speaker 2: to eff votes, that means they would then bring down

1031
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 2: the government. What happens after that, well, I don't really know.

1032
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 2: We haven't seen MK in government in anywhere, and I

1033
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 2: don't know what the consequences of that will be for

1034
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,879
Speaker 2: the A in for Quasulin Hotel. I do think though,

1035
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 2: that MK might find themselves in a slightly difficult position

1036
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: because I'll have to make a lot of decisions very quickly.

1037
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: And if you've seen what's happened in their caucus in

1038
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 2: case then and in Parliament, we've seen how difficult that

1039
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: can be.

1040
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: The Money Show on seven OS Monday till Friday six

1041
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: to apm.

1042
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 2: Well coming up, don't forget Aubrey, The Aubrey Masano Show

1043
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 2: this evening from eight o'clock or Sungga Mahana standing and sung.

1044
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 5: Good evening. What's coming up? Good evening, Stephen.

1045
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 13: We will be kicking off with financial Matters with insights

1046
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 13: about wealth and money on based on Robin Schaumer's book

1047
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 13: The Wealth Money Can't Buy, focusing on redefining money as

1048
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 13: one of eight essential types of wealth. Will focus on

1049
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 13: non financial which is like family, community, and service as

1050
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 13: a part of a truly rich life rather than just

1051
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 13: the financial wealth. And then we'll also be looking at

1052
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 13: Weird and Wonderful in the second hour with Sejamalda who's

1053
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 13: a holistic healer and integrates traditional healing practices with alternative healing.

1054
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 13: So we'll be looking at exploring themes, opportunities and challenges

1055
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 13: that will shape the year ahead, looking at personal growth,

1056
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 13: career shifts, or global trends. And then we'll be finishing

1057
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 13: off with Yok fund Dumb.

1058
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 6: So.

1059
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 13: I don't know if you've heard, Stephen of the term

1060
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 13: leading from behind, So with Yok we'll be talking about

1061
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 13: changing your mindset and in many workplaces, careers aren't only

1062
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 13: shaped by who leads from the front, but also by

1063
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 13: those who know how to lead from the sidelines, influencing decisions,

1064
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 13: shaping culture and being trusted without necessarily being in charge.

1065
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 2: It's fascinating, isn't it, Warsanga, thanks very much. Indeed, on

1066
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 2: your radio from eight o'clock the Money Show, shape Shift

1067
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 2: is twenty three minutes now to eight the time and

1068
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 2: you will know this person as the brand guru the

1069
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 2: public speed K's in a way had a big intellectual

1070
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 2: influence on brands across the continent. He knows our continent

1071
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 2: incredibly well. I've known him for many years. It's a

1072
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 2: great pleasure to welcome as our shape shifter this evening

1073
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 2: tie coloring Tibet. It's wonderful to see you. Thanks so

1074
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 2: much for coming in.

1075
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 12: Thank you so much for bringing me out into the

1076
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 12: wood out of the woodworks, happy, happy, Thank you.

1077
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 2: And I didn't know this about you until earlier today,

1078
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 2: but you grew up in Kimberly during the nineteen seventies

1079
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 2: and nineteen eighties on and rasts.

1080
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 5: What was Kimberly like?

1081
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 12: You know, growing up in Kimberly, because if you haven't

1082
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,959
Speaker 12: been anywhere else, your city is the center of the universe. Yes,

1083
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 12: and with ours as well. We really thought so much.

1084
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 12: Because it's the place where the fists are street lights,

1085
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 12: because we grew up in that narrative. Yes, and the

1086
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 12: and the proof of the first city street lights, the

1087
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 12: first train in the continent, the first stock change in

1088
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 12: the continent, And so it does a country of a

1089
00:58:56,120 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 12: city of country. There's a city of fists for us

1090
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 12: as as a matter of fact, our number plates are

1091
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 12: growing up at CC, so we interpreted as a city

1092
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 12: of civilization and so and you know the queen or

1093
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 12: the king now sitting pretty our with one of our rocks.

1094
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 2: Indeed, yes, we should demand that it comes back when

1095
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 2: you were growing up during that time. I mean we

1096
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 2: forget sometimes how much South Africa has changed, right, and

1097
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 2: how the South Africa that young people are growing up

1098
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 2: in now so different from the one that you were

1099
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 2: growing up. And I was I was obviously you know,

1100
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 2: much older than much younger than you.

1101
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 5: Not read you mean much greater.

1102
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 2: Yes, while you were growing up, was there something about

1103
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 2: branding or marketing that grabbed you from a young age?

1104
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 2: Was there any interest at a young I mean I

1105
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 2: don't think you know, ten year olds are thinking about marketing.

1106
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 5: I mean maybe there are. No, we don't think.

1107
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 12: We didn't have that language, the language, Yeah, we didn't

1108
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 12: have that language because we all grew up saying I'm

1109
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 12: going to be a teacher, I'm going to be a doctor,

1110
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 12: or I'm going to because my mother was in this,

1111
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 12: my grandfather worked for the council. My uncle was just

1112
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 12: a truant, and so those are reference points, right that

1113
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 12: you're going to be a nurse, a doctor, a policeman.

1114
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 12: So that was a reference point. So branding is a

1115
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 12: language that it's a language that I didn't know until

1116
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 12: I arrived in America. And arrived in America much later

1117
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 12: at the age of twenty two or so, you went

1118
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 12: to school, I think schooled Saint Boniface's Saint Boniface. It's

1119
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 12: the premier schools, you know. I went back this year

1120
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 12: last year, and when I was in school, our high

1121
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 12: school was only about one hundred people our entire high school.

1122
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 12: So it's a Christian private school. It's a black school,

1123
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,919
Speaker 12: but a black private school. On my left hand side

1124
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 12: or right inn side of my school is a white suburb,

1125
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 12: a west end. On the left hand side is Indian commercials,

1126
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 12: a shop, and then in front is a black township.

1127
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 12: So it was what you call a mind f when

1128
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 12: you're growing up in the middle of our part eight.

1129
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 12: But every day to school. You see how the other

1130
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 12: half lives every day, but it doesn't. So if you're

1131
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 12: not politically conscious, you don't compute that. It's just oh,

1132
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 12: that's how life is, and you get used to it,

1133
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 12: and you get used to it. So so one of

1134
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 12: us is So of us was the most the most

1135
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 12: prestigious school growing up in a township still is, by

1136
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 12: the way, because I went back last year. That's what was.

1137
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 12: Because I went back last year to give the So

1138
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 12: I said to them, I want to give my book

1139
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 12: The Traveler to the number one kid in every class,

1140
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 12: and I'm thinking five classes, so it's five books. That's

1141
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 12: my mind, because when I went to school it was

1142
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 12: five classes, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. I said, it's

1143
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 12: just four classes. And they said to me, well, high

1144
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 12: school is now six hundred students and as a whoa,

1145
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 12: I mean the classes, says there's not over thirty classes.

1146
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 12: So I had to get over the eighty books, so

1147
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 12: way past my budget of three or five books there.

1148
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,080
Speaker 12: So yes, but and by the way, it's still the

1149
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 12: best performing school in Kimberleyan in Northern Cape.

1150
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 2: So you finished school there and the opportunities, often for

1151
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 2: young black people were very limited. What opportunity was there?

1152
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 2: How did you get into higher education?

1153
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 12: So when I finished, when I finished high school, it

1154
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 12: was now dead. In the middle of nineteen eighty five,

1155
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 12: stative emergency was just state of emergency. That year. It

1156
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 12: was the country was shut school were all shut down.

1157
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 12: So I only entered. So I entered that year nineteen

1158
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 12: eighty five, and then within two months the schools was lost.

1159
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 12: A month or two the schools was lost as in

1160
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 12: closed because there was a state of emergency and stay

1161
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 12: away at the same time. And I think only around

1162
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 12: September or so. Then there was a lot of pressure

1163
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 12: by the UNI Air for example, among many to underparted

1164
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 12: government to reopen schools. And so there's a lot of

1165
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 12: pressure to end the state of emergency. And around September

1166
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 12: then the schools are reopening. But now it's too late.

1167
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1168
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 12: And then but the Christian brothers who were Irish brothers

1169
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 12: were Irish. They said, do you know what, guys, if

1170
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 12: you guys want to write, you can write the extam.

1171
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 12: We'll have brother We call them brother brother. We haven't

1172
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 12: been to school for seven months. We only went to

1173
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 12: school for a month or two. It's like it's like listen,

1174
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 12: you can just do a quick We'll run you through,

1175
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 12: help you do a revision quickly. We had to revise.

1176
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 12: Oh yeah, we haven't been to class fo yeah. And

1177
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 12: I know some of my friends, my classmates, they said,

1178
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 12: you know what, why go through this mess, You're gonna

1179
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 12: fail anyway. I was like, Okay, if you fail, at

1180
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 12: least we know the syllabus for X. Yes, so we

1181
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 12: use it as a sort of revision. And I think

1182
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 12: maybe six to ten of us. It's like, I will

1183
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 12: take a chance, you know. Now I was number one

1184
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 12: the rest of my school life and most of my

1185
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 12: school life. And then of course we wrote and natural

1186
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 12: Life finished first again as one shoot if I used

1187
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 12: to being first, yes, sure, and so there was mamoth.

1188
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 12: So now now it's too late in a year to

1189
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 12: plan for the future, to understand, to explain your to

1190
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 12: respond to your question. So now I'm saying, so what now? No,

1191
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 12: I don't have results. There's nothing else. The results only

1192
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 12: at least I think February the following year. Now I

1193
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 12: can't get And I applied only to one school, Virtus University,

1194
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 12: because why it was the best university in the country.

1195
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 12: So I said, that's this where I'm going, and I

1196
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 12: applied to it never got accepted because provisionally I was

1197
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 12: provisional accepted based on my previous results until I get

1198
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,959
Speaker 12: the results. But by the time the results came, there's nothing.

1199
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 12: And I applied to go do accounting, of all things.

1200
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 12: And the reason I went to accounting is because my

1201
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 12: deputy head, Cox Mohoro was adverts ding your accounting. And

1202
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 12: in my high school, he was the smartest. He was

1203
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 12: the number one in mathematics and science, and I was

1204
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 12: exactly like him. I was the top student, number one.

1205
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 12: I'm the head boy. I'm like, that's what I'm gonna

1206
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 12: do because that was our career guidance is to reference

1207
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 12: other people, so like yourself.

1208
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 2: So how do you go from that to marketing? You

1209
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 2: said that you first saw the language, you first understood

1210
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 2: the language in the US twenty two.

1211
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 5: How did that happen?

1212
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 12: So how that happened is also interesting. So then I

1213
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 12: get to it the following year, so year after momentary, yea,

1214
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 12: So it's not so I had a quote unquote gap year,

1215
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 12: ABA did other things and then I get into it.

1216
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 12: Then s one does. Because you don't get into varsity,

1217
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 12: you don't know anything, you must fail. It's part of

1218
01:05:55,600 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 12: the passage. So June I get sixty and I must

1219
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 12: go get the results. June I got sixty five percent

1220
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 12: for business economics, seventy two percent for law, fifty six

1221
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 12: percent for something else that comes wrong. So those days,

1222
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 12: those are good marks. Those days December I get for

1223
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:20,959
Speaker 12: the same courses overall mark. Now for the year forty seven,

1224
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 12: I said it's impossible. You can't be that equally dumb,

1225
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 12: or you would mean you can't, But you know, it

1226
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 12: was those times in South Africa, as you do recall,

1227
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 12: where everything was managed, so there was a manage of outputs,

1228
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 12: how many ducks can be pulled through and how many

1229
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 12: so we'll all part of the how things work. Those days.

1230
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 12: Somebody will get five courses, five forty ninses and like

1231
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 12: it's impossible, or like my case, I get three, but

1232
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 12: thenays it may. I then repeated them beforeowing years one

1233
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 12: does did very well. And then I moved and I

1234
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 12: got a scholarship to go to the US. Sure, so

1235
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 12: I got to US. So I arrived in the US,

1236
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 12: I'm in a nightclub. I don't drink, smoke or do drugs.

1237
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 12: I still don't, but I'm in a nightclub, nonetheless, and

1238
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 12: I meet some guy called whom I met at Vits

1239
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 12: a couple of years earlier. I may soul rest in

1240
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 12: a pastor accident a couple of years ago. So Susio

1241
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 12: then says to me, Tabbe and I meet him a

1242
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 12: nightclub in Columbus because we always converged with South Africans

1243
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 12: before you go to schools for three weeks, so all

1244
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 12: the South Africans will come together. So I'm meeting in

1245
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 12: the nightclub and it says to be what are you

1246
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 12: doing here? I'm like I was in accounting adverts. I'm

1247
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 12: coming to finish it off. One or two years that

1248
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 12: I moved back to my country, back to South Africa,

1249
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 12: and looked at me and says, but you're not an accountant,

1250
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 12: so what do you mean? He says, you're not an accountant.

1251
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 12: Look at yourself. So just be honest with yourself and

1252
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 12: don't worry about what people think, because you know, we

1253
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 12: also look at accounting, medicine because those are respectable things.

1254
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 12: So I went to so it's set in my subconscious,

1255
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 12: but it was something I really engage with. Ultimately, I

1256
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 12: ended up first in class. Was the entire thing in

1257
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 12: in in marketing and okay, in accounting, and I was ready,

1258
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 12: and I was and I was named the American Marketing

1259
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 12: Student Association uh MACAT University Student of the Year.

1260
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 7: So this is the thing.

1261
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 14: This was something you suddenly just clearly it spoke to you.

1262
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 14: It's because I was in a place where nobody else

1263
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 14: was judging me, and I also was not judging myself.

1264
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 14: I think I just gravitated towards it and it happened.

1265
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 14: And it's sort of how I lead my life even now,

1266
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 14: is I don't force things. I just allow myself to

1267
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 14: gravitate towards things. That's how I'm up in marketing. And

1268
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:38,639
Speaker 14: my professor Robinson, he was the head of the department,

1269
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 14: he meets me on the staircase. He's going up and

1270
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 14: I'm going down.

1271
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 12: At at Davastrats Building, which is a commercial the commerce building.

1272
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 12: And I went to Jesuit University and it looks as

1273
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 12: me and it says to me, you are going to

1274
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 12: be a brilliant marketer. Now I'm looking at this, guys say,

1275
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 12: surely he's on drugs, because I am not on drugs,

1276
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 12: so one of us has to be. And I move

1277
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 12: on with my life and so obviously then I started

1278
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 12: my first job at Colgate in New York in marketing.

1279
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 12: So that's sort of the transition marketing. That's where now

1280
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 12: you get to know about brands. Because the number one

1281
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 12: brand in America in or Okay is Corgriate, or maybe

1282
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 12: it was Crest around that time, but Corgate was around there.

1283
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 2: It's amazing the impact that sort of two separate conversations

1284
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 2: in a short space of time can have. We speaking

1285
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 2: to Tabe Califeing is your shape shifter this evening. We're

1286
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 2: going to ask him why some rebrands work and some don't.

1287
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 2: That's next the money show shape Shift is. We're so

1288
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 2: lucky to have Tabe Klifeing as your shape shifter this evening,

1289
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 2: Founder and share of Brand Africa. He has done many

1290
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 2: many things. Tebe, You've been involved in rebrands. You're involved

1291
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,560
Speaker 2: in rebrands going back as far as trans Net a

1292
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,719
Speaker 2: long time. I'm always interested. I mean, some rebrands work,

1293
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:51,719
Speaker 2: quite a few of them work and some don't. What's

1294
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 2: the secret?

1295
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 5: Why do some? Let me come at it this way?

1296
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 2: Why does some not work?

1297
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 12: I think the brands work if there is first. I

1298
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 12: think the first the First, the important thing is there

1299
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 12: needs to be clarity the why. You need to answer

1300
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 12: the why, the why of the brand, and that's the

1301
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:10,880
Speaker 12: foundation of any great brand. Why do you exist? What

1302
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 12: difference do you make if you did not exist? What

1303
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 12: will people if you had to disappear? What will be

1304
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 12: messed about you? So that's the first foundation of that.

1305
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 12: So what happens is that then we try and rebrand.

1306
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:24,800
Speaker 12: So a lot of times when we rebrand, what do

1307
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 12: we do? We are trying to put lipstick on the peic.

1308
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 12: We're trying to say, you know, we need to modernize

1309
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 12: the seven or two logo and take out the blue

1310
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 12: dotter and make it green, just freshen up, let's be young,

1311
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 12: because that's what people do, like like, you know, we're

1312
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 12: so old and entire, let's just modernize. And then you

1313
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 12: say to them, yes, but your speakers, your machines are old,

1314
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 12: your stories are old. The people that tell the stories,

1315
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 12: that tell the seven or two stories do not match

1316
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 12: that refresh that new brand. Brands don't work if they

1317
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,719
Speaker 12: if the brand insight is not equal to the and outside.

1318
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 12: So it is about ensuring that the brand, the rebrand

1319
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 12: is threw from what you propose to say and what

1320
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 12: you used to deliver it and how is delivered must

1321
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 12: be aligned, and a lot of times we don't do that.

1322
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 12: But of course sometimes these things are personal. These things

1323
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 12: can get so personal.

1324
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 7: Uh.

1325
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 12: And but I mean, I remember another rebranding, rebranded University

1326
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 12: of Botswana. So I've done a lot of universities. I've done.

1327
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 12: I mean, I've done Sorry, Nieds, I've done Nambibia technical

1328
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 12: ons to you need to university have done Northwest. We

1329
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 12: rebrand of universities, then we Didsana and after then a

1330
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 12: new a new vice chancellor comes in and it says,

1331
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,760
Speaker 12: I don't want it, it's not working, get rid of it.

1332
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:51,480
Speaker 12: And they canceled after having spent millions to the implementation

1333
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 12: of the brand. And then the question was why is

1334
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 12: it not working?

1335
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 1: Not?

1336
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 12: Let me tell you a beautiful story about that. So

1337
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 12: we then modernize the brand because the way the logo

1338
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 12: used to look at identity rather used to used to

1339
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 12: be like a shield and real bricks. You could see

1340
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 12: the bricks, you could see the cow, or you could

1341
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,800
Speaker 12: see a sheath of corn. So we said, this is

1342
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 12: so amateurish. It's the verses Tening twenty five. Let's modernize,

1343
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 12: let's move the university forward. So we then did very modern,

1344
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:26,639
Speaker 12: very beautiful, so elegant. Then one day I'm coming there

1345
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 12: for the implementation. Then I'm standing out at the door

1346
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 12: and I meet an old lady with the broom who

1347
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 12: works there, and she looks at the new identity. She

1348
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 12: says to me, but where is my cow?

1349
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 2: Ah?

1350
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,639
Speaker 12: I said, what do you mean, mama, she says, my son.

1351
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 12: Let me tell you this university are twenty five years ago.

1352
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 12: The community was asked to each bring something to establish

1353
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:58,679
Speaker 12: a national university. Our parents brought cows, cattle, others brought corn,

1354
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 12: others brought wow others. He said, So when I see

1355
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 12: that identity, it represents us. So now you have to

1356
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 12: understand the other story about brand.

1357
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 5: What a story.

1358
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 12: So you then you get to understand the other story

1359
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 12: about Benny, that the brand must resonate. You must also

1360
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 12: understand why it looks so you and I look at it, says, oh,

1361
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 12: this is so old fashioned. But to her, she looks

1362
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 12: at it as that is the embodiment of the story

1363
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 12: of who we are. It is the manifestation of a

1364
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:35,919
Speaker 12: country and a community coming together to deliver something that important.

1365
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 12: So some brands don't work if you don't understand.

1366
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 5: The why sure things are.

1367
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 2: That's so interesting, Taba talking about Botswana, You've been thinking

1368
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 2: a lot about Africa. You've been traveling a lot. That's

1369
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 2: what you write about more recently in your in your

1370
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 2: latest book. And I get a sense on one side

1371
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 2: part of me is you know that that some people

1372
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 2: I think you look at our continents and think, ah,

1373
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 2: the Qus and Trouble and Mali and all the rest

1374
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 2: and other places and other parts of it. Inegle. Actually,

1375
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 2: there's no stopping Africa at this point because just because

1376
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:10,799
Speaker 2: of the way the world is going, because our population

1377
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,760
Speaker 2: is growing, It's where markets will be. That's where I

1378
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 2: think a lot of innovation is going to happen. We

1379
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:17,800
Speaker 2: have problems that can be surmounted, and we're going to

1380
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 2: surmount them. You've always struck me as one of the

1381
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 2: most optimistic people about Africa that I know.

1382
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 12: I know people say to me, but Tebe, you are

1383
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 12: fighting a losing battle. So now I've been to every country,

1384
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 12: and I've been to every island surrounding the continent, and

1385
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 12: I've been to every disputed as well as foreign owned,

1386
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 12: foreign own territory around the constries. So I've been to

1387
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 12: all those sixty. I'm just focused on the continent. I've

1388
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:45,719
Speaker 12: been to all those sixty that quote unquote equal Africa.

1389
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,200
Speaker 12: I know on papers is called fifty four because that's

1390
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 12: what about fifty the uns and fifty five are into

1391
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,799
Speaker 12: a ume. But when I look at my journey across

1392
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 12: all those and every new country I've been to, reinforced

1393
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 12: in me the potential of the continent because I get

1394
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 12: us all the time. What's the common to you nominate

1395
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:08,960
Speaker 12: across the continent? I said, resilience. These are people who've

1396
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:16,600
Speaker 12: overcome abarte it, colonialism, slavery. I look at it and said, resourcefulness.

1397
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:18,720
Speaker 12: These are the people that you know. We arrived in

1398
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 12: a place. I remember writing in Senegal at the board

1399
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 12: at the bottom of Senegal and Gambia at four in

1400
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 12: the morning, and the guy asked me, as does four

1401
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 12: a insurance for the car to cross over into Gambia.

1402
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:33,640
Speaker 12: I said, at four, we don't have it. We're going

1403
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 12: to get it. The guy says, just wait a minute.

1404
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 12: It takes us. We go around, we find somebody with

1405
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 12: a touch with the phone, torching writing policies. So I'm

1406
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,639
Speaker 12: thinking as a South African that must be all corrupt,

1407
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:51,519
Speaker 12: and he told me afterwards, he says, no, we know

1408
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,800
Speaker 12: there are people like you who will arrive here with

1409
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 12: that insurance. So what we do we prey by policies.

1410
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 12: So when people like you come through, Wow, we have

1411
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 12: the policy ready for you. So that's that's that plan.

1412
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 12: The resourcefulness of of africaans yes, and it's a place

1413
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 12: also there's very welcoming that anyway. As matter of fact,

1414
01:16:10,479 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 12: I always think that Ubuntu is our strength and our

1415
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 12: and our and our our weakness. It's our strength is

1416
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 12: in that it shows that we understand that we are

1417
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:24,599
Speaker 12: interconnected as people. But on the one hand, I think

1418
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 12: because of Ubuntu, because if we're so porous in our

1419
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 12: in our borders and porous in our hearts, that people

1420
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:34,160
Speaker 12: take advantage of us as a people. But it is

1421
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:37,200
Speaker 12: still more a strength than than the weakness. Now if

1422
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 12: you look at it, and then of course we're very

1423
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,240
Speaker 12: creative people. So if you look at the common denominators

1424
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:44,600
Speaker 12: of all those, that's to me the foundation of a

1425
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:48,360
Speaker 12: continent that can reimagine itself a continent of one point

1426
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 12: three billion people with with and and you look at

1427
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:53,519
Speaker 12: what a f C F T A is trying to

1428
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 12: do the continent of the f safety is said, if

1429
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 12: we can, if we can open up the borders and

1430
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 12: we allow Africa to trade with Africa, we're at fifteen

1431
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:05,160
Speaker 12: percent now, if you can compared to Europe at seventy

1432
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 12: sixty to seventy percent, if you can open up the

1433
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:11,200
Speaker 12: borders and allow us to think, we will go farther. Now,

1434
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 12: if you look at the shifting geo politics, we are

1435
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 12: now being asked questions and the focus on putting your

1436
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 12: country first and us putting the continent first. We now

1437
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 12: have to look at this and say, guys, maybe we

1438
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:29,720
Speaker 12: need to look at ourselves. Open up the borders, industrialized,

1439
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:35,360
Speaker 12: drive your own agenda. Because in nineteen sixty three Kwamen

1440
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:38,760
Speaker 12: Krumer got together at on the fourth, twenty fourth of May.

1441
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 12: They got together were the thirty two presidents. They had

1442
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 12: a master plan of industrialization, of open borders, et cetera,

1443
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 12: et cetera, which just never ever come through. So if

1444
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 12: you look at what they then did in twenty thirteen

1445
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:58,800
Speaker 12: the Ausawas, then you see then and they really just

1446
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:02,640
Speaker 12: that us dusted the the nineteen sixty three manifesto and

1447
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 12: they called it our agenda twenteen sixty three.

1448
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:06,080
Speaker 6: It to me.

1449
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 12: I'm optimistic about the continent because it's the potential that

1450
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 12: we have. A friend of mine said, Africa has got

1451
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,719
Speaker 12: Aldy's got a past, but Africa's got a future.

1452
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:18,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a nice way to put it. Such a nice,

1453
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 2: ready and color of thing. It has been wonderful to

1454
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:22,320
Speaker 2: talk to you and wonderful to see you. Thank you

1455
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 2: so much for coming in and being our shape shifter tonight.

1456
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 12: Thank you so much. Steven