1
00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:05,520
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

2
00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,400
Speaker 1: oh two, let's walk lit All.

3
00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,000
Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

4
00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,080
Speaker 2: by abs Islamic Business Bank celebrating twenty years of banking

5
00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,640
Speaker 2: rooted in values. Abst is A registered a FSP nine

6
00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,280
Speaker 2: minutes after six Good evening, Welcome to the Money Show.

7
00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 2: I was astonished, but like not deeply surprised to hear

8
00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,880
Speaker 2: about the fact that the NPA has now issued a

9
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,600
Speaker 2: summons to the National Police Commissioner Fane Massamola. You know,

10
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,479
Speaker 2: the third time something happens, the shock sort of wears off.

11
00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,320
Speaker 2: It's kind of deja vous in a strange way. The

12
00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,400
Speaker 2: great hope, I think for all of us, the great

13
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,160
Speaker 2: hope is that out of this comes proper police reform,

14
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,720
Speaker 2: and with that, I must just add, comes away to

15
00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 2: help you defend your business, to stop commercial crime, to

16
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 2: stop all of those things, along with the vitally more

17
00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 2: important things like defending your children, your families, defending us

18
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:04,240
Speaker 2: from violent crime and obviously murder, but just the idea

19
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:09,000
Speaker 2: that the National Police Commissioner can once again face criminal charges.

20
00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,560
Speaker 2: Astonished too, I must just say the Presidency did put

21
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 2: out a statement on this, but still no suspension and

22
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,319
Speaker 2: he has to be suspended. I mean, there can be

23
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,440
Speaker 2: no doubt. I know Johnnathan was saying the same thing.

24
00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,399
Speaker 2: I don't mean to repeat what he said, but I

25
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,720
Speaker 2: have to agree with him. The National Police Commissioner has

26
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,520
Speaker 2: to be suspended and he can't go into work tomorrow.

27
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,480
Speaker 2: I mean, let's just be clear. Call it what he wants.

28
00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,080
Speaker 2: He just can't. The signal that sends is worse. There's

29
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,120
Speaker 2: been quite a busy day on the markets, and we'll

30
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 2: talk about the whole issue of Fani musselmoder in a

31
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,800
Speaker 2: few moments, and whether what a reform of the SAPs

32
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,760
Speaker 2: would mean for your business, for our economy. Speak to

33
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,240
Speaker 2: Andrew keigh Lee Smith, he's a senior forensic oyal. We

34
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,520
Speaker 2: hear from him in a minute. Jani Jurant before that,

35
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,400
Speaker 2: he's the HEO Remgrove. They've had a very strong season

36
00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,960
Speaker 2: and particularly because of medi Clinic. Then Sandral astonishing story

37
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,800
Speaker 2: on Moneyweb today and there's Sanral not going to talk

38
00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,680
Speaker 2: to us about it. But it seems that what Cenral

39
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:09,840
Speaker 2: are saying is that we should have a slightly wider

40
00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,360
Speaker 2: patch of the road. So if you take the end

41
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,679
Speaker 2: one going day from you know was seen at to

42
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,280
Speaker 2: cape down. They'll say, well, we've got the patch. Now

43
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,520
Speaker 2: we want to be able to regulate who has business

44
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,079
Speaker 2: on the side of it. So for example, if you

45
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,680
Speaker 2: want to start charging business for electric cars, as some

46
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,040
Speaker 2: people do, well, then we will actually maybe even get

47
00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,760
Speaker 2: into that game ourselves, which is extraordinary. I mean, could

48
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,080
Speaker 2: you imagine Ceneral running filling stations. I can't. Why then

49
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 2: would they be involved in electric car charging. Anyway, we'll

50
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,560
Speaker 2: hear review on that later. And then obviously we're all

51
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,080
Speaker 2: know that fuel prices are going to go up next

52
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 2: week two weeks time. Actually, we expect that there will

53
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,680
Speaker 2: be an interest rate hold tomorrow. Unfortunately, salaries though going up,

54
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,560
Speaker 2: and all the dartery looking at at the moment is

55
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,639
Speaker 2: backward looking. But the fact is that salaries have been

56
00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,800
Speaker 2: trending up. I think that's important looking forward to that

57
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,440
Speaker 2: this evening could to hear from you double one, double

58
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,080
Speaker 2: A three oh seven two two one four four six

59
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:06,120
Speaker 2: five sixty seven.

60
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 1: The Money Show with Stephen krutis live on ninety two

61
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,680
Speaker 1: point seven and one o six f.

62
00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,160
Speaker 3: M, streaming on the Prime Media Plus, NAP and DStv

63
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:17,760
Speaker 3: channel eight five six.

64
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,480
Speaker 2: The suggestion from a senior official in government today about

65
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,000
Speaker 2: higher fuel prices, saying, maybe it's time to work from

66
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,120
Speaker 2: home again. Once that becomes a reality, I have to

67
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,360
Speaker 2: say my own sense, and I'm sure I've told you

68
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 2: this before, that my own preference is actually to work

69
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,560
Speaker 2: in an office. I want to see the people I

70
00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,800
Speaker 2: work with. I want to joke with them. I want

71
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,800
Speaker 2: them sometimes to be annoyed with me. I suppose I

72
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,120
Speaker 2: want to be annoyed in turn. I'm just more of

73
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 2: a social animal. And I imagine that won't surprise you.

74
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,640
Speaker 2: I don't know how you would feel if we all

75
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 2: had to go back to working from home, if that

76
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 2: was just suddenly the way we were because of higher

77
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 2: fuel prices. So let me ask the question like this,

78
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,480
Speaker 2: what do you think it would do to your productivity?

79
00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 2: Would it increase it or would it make it worse

80
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,840
Speaker 2: to suddenly we have to work from home right now

81
00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,040
Speaker 2: because of fuel prices seven two seven oh two one

82
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 2: seven o two.

83
00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,680
Speaker 1: Stephen, it's on the Money Show six to eight pm.

84
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,720
Speaker 2: Well, the holding company Remgro reporting their headline earnings per

85
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,440
Speaker 2: share up by nearly forty percent. They've increased their interim

86
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,440
Speaker 2: dividend by eighty percent. Strong earnings from their medic many

87
00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 2: clinic business Rainbow Chicken, but they are worried about their

88
00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,680
Speaker 2: mediclinic operations in the Middle East. Janie Durant is the

89
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 2: CEO at Remgrowly, good evening and welcome back to the

90
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,360
Speaker 2: money show. Thanks for joining us. I mean Mediclinic. They

91
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,360
Speaker 2: contributed four hundred and eighty five million Rand to your

92
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,240
Speaker 2: bottom line. I mean the group's doing well and I

93
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 2: presume there's a strong demand for its services.

94
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank thank you very much. On good evening. Stevehn.

95
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, unfortunately, I mean a couple of weeks ago, I

96
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 5: wouldn't have said, we wouldn't have been worried about it

97
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,080
Speaker 5: at all in the Middle East because it was such

98
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,960
Speaker 5: a performing operation of us. The demand was there with

99
00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,240
Speaker 5: the best operated in the Middle East from a South

100
00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,800
Speaker 5: African company, with the proud of that. But unfortunately things

101
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,359
Speaker 5: have changed. I must just give kudos to our management

102
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,920
Speaker 5: teams there. They actually under difficult circumstances. Things are going

103
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,839
Speaker 5: actually not so bad. They're working closely with the government

104
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,200
Speaker 5: of the UAE, keeping the hospitals open. Our inpatient volumes

105
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,920
Speaker 5: seems to be fine. Just the outpatient volumes that is

106
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,719
Speaker 5: not so great at the moment, but people not traveling.

107
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,960
Speaker 5: But yeah, overall, just congratulations to them, and really we

108
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 5: salute them for what they're doing there.

109
00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,400
Speaker 2: How worried are you about the impact of what's happening

110
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,040
Speaker 2: in the Middle East? I mean, you made the points

111
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,800
Speaker 2: in your sense statement that most of your assets are

112
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,480
Speaker 2: an emerging market. It's more likely to be hit hard

113
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,559
Speaker 2: by higher fuel prices and higher inflation. Is it keeping

114
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:42,080
Speaker 2: you up at night?

115
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,159
Speaker 5: Yet at the moment, he's starting to I mean, the

116
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,039
Speaker 5: war is getting on longer, and I thought it would.

117
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,440
Speaker 5: I think nobody knows when it's going to end, not

118
00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,560
Speaker 5: even probably the President of the United States, to be

119
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,520
Speaker 5: quite frank. So it's actually at a concerning thing. The

120
00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,640
Speaker 5: longer it goes on, the bigger the impact would be.

121
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,000
Speaker 5: I think we can already see what is happening in

122
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 5: South Africa. People are probably scrambling a bit, but we're

123
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 5: going to have some field shortages. As you're probably aware,

124
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,039
Speaker 5: fifty percent of the field comes from that region that

125
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,000
Speaker 5: we actually import fifty percent, so it's a significant amount

126
00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:12,720
Speaker 5: and you can't.

127
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,599
Speaker 4: Just redirect that into other areas.

128
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,240
Speaker 5: So we've only got one operating refinery on the ranch,

129
00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 5: so that that is a problem as well if you

130
00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,200
Speaker 5: have to refine field products.

131
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:23,120
Speaker 4: So yeah, I do.

132
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,800
Speaker 5: It will have the impact not just on our companies

133
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,880
Speaker 5: but on South Africa Inc. And that's what I'm worried

134
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,000
Speaker 5: about more about South African Inc. And ourselves because people

135
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,599
Speaker 5: are not in a great position of high inflation, food prices,

136
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:36,280
Speaker 5: all of that thing.

137
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,200
Speaker 4: We can go back to some of the COVID days

138
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:39,240
Speaker 4: which will not be great.

139
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,480
Speaker 2: Just your exposure to the healthcare sector in Southern Africa

140
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,120
Speaker 2: and our health minister, I think is determined to introduce

141
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,080
Speaker 2: the NHI. You have signed a sort of deal in

142
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,599
Speaker 2: principle with the mESC group, so you'll own all of

143
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,880
Speaker 2: the Southern African operations of Mediclinic. You must still believe

144
00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,919
Speaker 2: then that private health has a strong future in South Africa.

145
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,280
Speaker 4: Absolutely, no, no, we convince about that.

146
00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,839
Speaker 5: And from what the NHI is a funding model, although

147
00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,120
Speaker 5: they've got certain things on the medical aida. Funding model

148
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 5: is not a delivery model. And we think we can

149
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,520
Speaker 5: deliver the services that will be required, and we think

150
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,560
Speaker 5: we can even deliver it at the lower cost place

151
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,640
Speaker 5: so that it can make it more affordable for people.

152
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 5: But we need certainty, we need to share how the

153
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 5: policy frameworks work. But we confident that NHI won't affect

154
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,920
Speaker 5: our business too much. And to be quite frank with you, Stephen,

155
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,200
Speaker 5: I don't think we can afford NHI at this point

156
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,520
Speaker 5: in time, especially what's happening now. I think it's going

157
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,120
Speaker 5: to take a long time. It's going to be in

158
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,680
Speaker 5: the court. It's actually stalled at the moment as we speak.

159
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,200
Speaker 5: So that is definitely not keeping me up awake at night.

160
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 5: The Middle East situation speak much more like it night

161
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,080
Speaker 5: as we speak. Absolutely sure.

162
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,120
Speaker 2: I mean I'm interested when you say you could reduce

163
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,560
Speaker 2: costs in the medical sector because around the world healthcare

164
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,200
Speaker 2: inflation is much higher than CPI Ya says.

165
00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,200
Speaker 5: A lower cost model, what is things like certain things

166
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,400
Speaker 5: the hospital said you'll be or the clinices that you'll

167
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,480
Speaker 5: build won't have private rooms. It will have probably bigger holes,

168
00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,720
Speaker 5: more people in the in the building, and the food

169
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,640
Speaker 5: will probably not be of a lower quality.

170
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,760
Speaker 4: But difficult to say.

171
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,480
Speaker 5: So there is certain things that you can just strike

172
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 5: flying business laws or you're flying economy class. The people

173
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 5: that can afford it can have a private room and

174
00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,560
Speaker 5: be confident about that. The biggest, the biggest challenge that

175
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,440
Speaker 5: we have to find and we will be able if

176
00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,320
Speaker 5: we can employ our own doctors and we need to

177
00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,440
Speaker 5: portray more doctors, and then we think we can deliver

178
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,800
Speaker 5: like a Capy Deca. So done so remarkably well in

179
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,760
Speaker 5: the banking financial service sector. It is the is opportunity

180
00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,400
Speaker 5: to deliver a lower cost of modern model. But then

181
00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,280
Speaker 5: you need to have certainty and you have got that.

182
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,560
Speaker 5: You need to have a medical aid that people can

183
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 5: pay for that but at a lower price point.

184
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,160
Speaker 2: You own a big stake in our cl foods in

185
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,880
Speaker 2: their battling because of the problems in our sugar industry,

186
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,520
Speaker 2: and government's been asked to help the sugar industry, I

187
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 2: mean perhaps through tariffs. Even would you support that It

188
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,480
Speaker 2: would obviously help your business. It might make sugar slightly

189
00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,199
Speaker 2: more expensive for consumers. Absolutely, we're very supportive of that.

190
00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 2: And I think it's it played out of what is

191
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,520
Speaker 2: happening in Cage. It into guard Unit.

192
00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,320
Speaker 5: It's a competitor, but we it's not a good thing

193
00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,679
Speaker 5: that they will go into liquidation. I mean, so about

194
00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 5: two hundred thousand people depend on the sugar use gage

195
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 5: it and as we speak at the current sugar prices,

196
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,760
Speaker 5: they're not making money the mills or not even running.

197
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,160
Speaker 5: The growers are struggling. So it's actually it's at a

198
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,240
Speaker 5: tipping point at the moment. And the problem is not

199
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,599
Speaker 5: that we're not an effective country in sugar is like

200
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,600
Speaker 5: the chicken industry with effective cost. We convert sugar effectively

201
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,120
Speaker 5: and we one of the top five in the country,

202
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,640
Speaker 5: but we're getting flooded with cheap inputs out of Indian

203
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,320
Speaker 5: Brazil which are subsidized, and we don't get any subsidy

204
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,520
Speaker 5: from the government. So you're not competing on a level

205
00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,839
Speaker 5: playing field. And that is why we need need the

206
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,959
Speaker 5: terrors to make sure that it's a level playing field.

207
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,240
Speaker 2: You recently sold your steak or most of your steak,

208
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,079
Speaker 2: A lot of your steak in first round I think

209
00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,080
Speaker 2: was four point nine billion rounds worth, and you've been

210
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,960
Speaker 2: setting down your steak in that group. Are you getting

211
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,960
Speaker 2: out of first round for some reason or you believe

212
00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,800
Speaker 2: you can just use the capital more effect please somewhere else.

213
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:03,920
Speaker 5: I think if you just take you back even to

214
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,640
Speaker 5: twenty eighteen, that's when we unbundled our big first round stake,

215
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,880
Speaker 5: when we were still the biggest shareholder since then. We

216
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 5: actually have said at that point in time on going

217
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,320
Speaker 5: back now to twenty eighteen, so much just recalling correctly,

218
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,280
Speaker 5: but I said, it's like a child that leaves the

219
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,200
Speaker 5: leaves yourse house. It's actually grown through university and then

220
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,319
Speaker 5: it need to go and spread. I mean, first round

221
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,040
Speaker 5: was much bigger than us. Our influence, our value addam

222
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,800
Speaker 5: was very limited. So we kept the strategics takers cash

223
00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 5: or near cash, and we fought at this point in

224
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,719
Speaker 5: time we could apply the cash somewhere else. I think

225
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 5: things have changed a little bit since in the last

226
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 5: couple of weeks of what how we will apply that cash.

227
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,640
Speaker 5: But I think it's quite quite critical to see that

228
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 5: we actually sold before some of the biggest portion of

229
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,200
Speaker 5: our stake just before the war in the Middle East,

230
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 5: so we're still sitting on a little bit of that.

231
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 5: But so it's been it's been a long time coming.

232
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,120
Speaker 5: It's been coming since twenty eighteen.

233
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I need Terian good to chat to you. Thank

234
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,200
Speaker 2: you so much, really appreciated the CEO at remgro nineteen

235
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:56,439
Speaker 2: minutes now after six.

236
00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen who it is.

237
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,800
Speaker 2: On seven two two the Presidency putting out a statement

238
00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,160
Speaker 2: this afternoon, saying President Sara Roma Pausa has noted their word,

239
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 2: not mine that the National Police Commissioner Fani Massimola has

240
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,520
Speaker 2: been summons to appear in court. Frankly, he's clearly being charged.

241
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,440
Speaker 2: It does seem to be part of the fallout from

242
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,240
Speaker 2: that medi care tender with Uzzi Muzi kat Matala. Will

243
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,559
Speaker 2: only rarely know exactly what the story is, probably on

244
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,800
Speaker 2: the twenty first of April when he's due to a peer.

245
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,839
Speaker 2: Andrew Keith Lee Smith is an anti corruption lawyer and

246
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,319
Speaker 2: senior Associate at NS. Andrew, good evening, Thanks for the time.

247
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,000
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're trying to run a business in

248
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,679
Speaker 2: this country, you're trying to look after your investments, and

249
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,640
Speaker 2: now you see that the National Police Commissioner faces a

250
00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,839
Speaker 2: criminal charge and he's the third National Police Commissioner to

251
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,840
Speaker 2: be in this position. I mean, what kind of message

252
00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,040
Speaker 2: does the same to us all?

253
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 6: Hi, good evening, Stephen, and to your listeners, thank you

254
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,600
Speaker 6: so much for having me. Yes, Unfortunately, it is quite

255
00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,800
Speaker 6: a sad development from a I suppose a South African perspective.

256
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,079
Speaker 6: That being said, I think the sentiment and feelings that

257
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 6: people had towards the rule of law in South Africa

258
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,320
Speaker 6: hasn't really changed, and I think it's probably a positive

259
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,439
Speaker 6: development that we're seeing some sort of action and some

260
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,280
Speaker 6: sort of accountability, should I say, in a time where

261
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 6: we haven't not ordinarily had accountability.

262
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,959
Speaker 2: I mean, the President hasn't suspended yet, but I'm presume

263
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,840
Speaker 2: it's automatic in the next twenty four hours. That would

264
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,160
Speaker 2: really need to happen. Otherwise we'll have to ask questions

265
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,800
Speaker 2: about the president and I would imagine no one ready

266
00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,240
Speaker 2: wants that, agreed.

267
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,920
Speaker 6: I expect there will be some sort of formal notification

268
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:35,880
Speaker 6: in the coming days.

269
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:41,000
Speaker 2: The Madlanga Commission into corruption, the parliamentary process that we've seen,

270
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,360
Speaker 2: it's really shed a lot of light of what's been

271
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 2: going on in the SAPSID will remind us of the

272
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,240
Speaker 2: sort of Zondo commission. Do you believe we might start

273
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,040
Speaker 2: to see some real reform as a result of this?

274
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,959
Speaker 2: And if we have a more effective police service, it

275
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,040
Speaker 2: makes life so much easier for every single person who's

276
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 2: involved in business now a mind just your general quality

277
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 2: of life.

278
00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,839
Speaker 6: I agree one hundred percent. Unfortunately, we are still dealing

279
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 6: with the hangover of the stripping of our corruption or

280
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,319
Speaker 6: anti corruption mechanisms as a result of what happened in

281
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,959
Speaker 6: the State captured days. But I do think and I

282
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,840
Speaker 6: would like to express it on air to say.

283
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 2: That the tide is in my mind turning.

284
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,480
Speaker 6: There are some exceptionally talented individuals out there that are

285
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,760
Speaker 6: putting in a lot of hard work to combat corruption

286
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,720
Speaker 6: in South Africa, and while your listeners probably don't see

287
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,480
Speaker 6: it in the news, I can confirm that it really

288
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,800
Speaker 6: is happening, and I am quite enamored of what's going

289
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:42,640
Speaker 6: on in the country and what we see and come

290
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:43,439
Speaker 6: out in the press.

291
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,439
Speaker 2: It's been interesting to me to see that the Zomba

292
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,000
Speaker 2: Commission happened several years ago. Now, findings were made and

293
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,439
Speaker 2: it took a very long time for the NPA to

294
00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,520
Speaker 2: act here. They clearly haven't waited. They've acted much more

295
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,480
Speaker 2: quickly and that must be encouraging.

296
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,199
Speaker 6: Yes, it is, and I suppose in my mind it's

297
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,599
Speaker 6: probably down to the fact that we are rectifying some

298
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,079
Speaker 6: of the wrongs, replacing some of the bad apples as

299
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 6: it were that were we're in NPA historically, and not

300
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,679
Speaker 6: to labor on about the quality of people that we

301
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,960
Speaker 6: have now, but in terms of timing, I think when

302
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,320
Speaker 6: it comes to matters where implicated individuals are police officers

303
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,040
Speaker 6: or linked to anti corruption mechanisms, I think it is

304
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 6: imperative that arrests and prosecutions happen quicker rather than slower

305
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 6: as a result of their ability or the cues ability

306
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,120
Speaker 6: to interfere with cases. So yeah, I think from a

307
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 6: timing perspective, it's really positive to see that these arrests

308
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,640
Speaker 6: are happening quick and I have no doubt I'm sure

309
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,520
Speaker 6: many will come in the next few months in relation

310
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 6: to what comes out of them at longer commission, if you.

311
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,120
Speaker 2: Had to ask every single South African you know what

312
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 2: is the most important thing police need to get on

313
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,040
Speaker 2: top of them? Almost certain it will be murder and

314
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,960
Speaker 2: violent crime, along with gender based violence and a few

315
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,800
Speaker 2: other issues related to violent crime. To grow an economy, though,

316
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,680
Speaker 2: you just can't do that with the levels of commercial

317
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 2: crime that we have, and we've rarely seen a very

318
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,640
Speaker 2: low level of resources in that sphere for a long time.

319
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 2: What kind of big effort would it take to rarely

320
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,760
Speaker 2: get that to where we need it to be. We've

321
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,760
Speaker 2: known for a long time we don't have enough detectives,

322
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 2: never mind detectives you can manage commercial crime, for example.

323
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 6: So I think one of the biggest challenges is the

324
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 6: complexity of commercial crime. And I'm sure many of your

325
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 6: listeners might not be aware, but commercial crime is quite

326
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:43,040
Speaker 6: a difficult crime to prosecute in terms of resources, understanding

327
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 6: quite complex financial matters and the like. So I think

328
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 6: a lack of resources is probably one of the biggest

329
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:50,480
Speaker 6: difficulties we face.

330
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:51,920
Speaker 2: And in terms of.

331
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,520
Speaker 6: Recommendations, and I know a lot of work is being

332
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 6: done in the background. Is public private partnerships. I know

333
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,840
Speaker 6: in other countries globally you have well resourced anti corruption mechanisms,

334
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 6: and I would like to see that going forward in

335
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,080
Speaker 6: the future. And I think it is something that we

336
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 6: will see. And I mean if you look at the.

337
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 2: Commissions that have.

338
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,920
Speaker 6: Essentially been put together to combat corruption, the Sonder Commission

339
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 6: and the Blanger Commission, you're looking at well resourced, very

340
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,560
Speaker 6: talented senior advocates who are assisting and essentially laying the

341
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 6: foundation for what will hopefully.

342
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,840
Speaker 7: Be successful prosecutions in the future.

343
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,800
Speaker 6: So I think in summary, I would probably like to

344
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 6: see more resources being dedicated to anti corruption and then

345
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 6: more public private partnerships in that regard, I.

346
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 2: Mean public private partnerships are very interesting. They're bring a

347
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 2: lot of resources that can be incredibly successful. I think

348
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 2: there's often a concern about their legitimacy. You know, why

349
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 2: would a business organization fund the police? How closely related

350
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:02,000
Speaker 2: should they be? Now, I understand the interest of business

351
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 2: in this. Everybody wants the rule of law to work,

352
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,920
Speaker 2: and that makes sense to me. But at some point

353
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 2: in court someone's going to say there's a motive against

354
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,119
Speaker 2: me because of this public private partnership. It can get

355
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:13,720
Speaker 2: a little sticky, sometimes.

356
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 6: One hundred percent, and that's one of the challenges with

357
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 6: these sorts of mechanisms. And whatever is put together and

358
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 6: wherever there is funding, it needs to be done in

359
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:28,440
Speaker 6: a way that is obviously at arms length from the

360
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,440
Speaker 6: actual private entity itself, and whatever funding they provide would

361
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,280
Speaker 6: need to be essentially for the discretion of the state

362
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 6: to decide where that money is allocated and to whom,

363
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,760
Speaker 6: and essentially you can hopefully prevent instances we're accused would

364
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,440
Speaker 6: accuse the funding of the case as a mechanisms for

365
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 6: essentially looking to prosecute them unduly.

366
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,520
Speaker 2: Andrew Keithley Smith, thank you so much. An anti corruption

367
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,120
Speaker 2: lawyer as senior associate at NS on The Money Show tonight. Well,

368
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,399
Speaker 2: we wait to see what the President does around Fani Massimola.

369
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,120
Speaker 2: As I say, I just can't see that he could

370
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 2: go into the office tomorrow. The problem, of course is

371
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,200
Speaker 2: who replaces him. The person who would normally replace him,

372
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,639
Speaker 2: chadreck Sepia, is himself suspended and has faced very serious claims.

373
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:17,800
Speaker 2: I don't know who comes after that, And I know

374
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 2: people might say, well, we want in fluntlam Quanasi. He's

375
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 2: had the job before as an acting National Police Commissioner

376
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,119
Speaker 2: back in or showing my age twenty ten. Also it

377
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 2: was temporary then, but I don't know if that's necessarily

378
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 2: that wise either. We'll watch the space twenty seven minutes

379
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 2: after six The Money Show. The Market, Chris Stewart's portfolio

380
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,800
Speaker 2: manager at ninety one Chris Good evening, A really strong

381
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,640
Speaker 2: update from Rheingro tonight. Yeah, good evening, Stephen.

382
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 8: Youp first half earnings out of Reemgro coming through with

383
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,480
Speaker 8: very strong earnings gress City eight and a half percent,

384
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,280
Speaker 8: well ahead of what the market was looking for, eighty

385
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,719
Speaker 8: percent increase in dividend and some ongoing activities to continue

386
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,840
Speaker 8: to line their portfolio and an attempt to, I guess,

387
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,920
Speaker 8: narrow the discount to net asset value at which the

388
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 8: company is currently trading, which has narrowed somewhat from last

389
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 8: time it reported, but remains by historic standards still quite high.

390
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 8: And I guess if you look at the quality of

391
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 8: the earnings beat other than you know, a couple of

392
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 8: one offs within many clinics earnings numbers, as well as

393
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,160
Speaker 8: within Tatal Energies, which particularly benefited from a three hundred

394
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 8: and thirty million rand odd pipeline refund from trans Net.

395
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 8: Outside of that, you know, decent organic growth in the

396
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 8: underlying entities, and you know, a fairly strong result out

397
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 8: of Mdrotadas.

398
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 2: As so many markets around the world, as included, rarely

399
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 2: beholden to the oil price, and one or two pieces

400
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,400
Speaker 2: in the Economist quite recently suggesting the oil price should

401
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 2: actually be much higher than it is because there's just

402
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 2: no way we're going to get oil supplies going through

403
00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 2: the strait of UMUS and things going back to normal,

404
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 2: you know, anytime over the next few months. How do

405
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:04,959
Speaker 2: you see it playing out At the moment, I mean,

406
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 2: markets are kind of in thrall to the oil price.

407
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 2: US markets, though it's not quite business as than usual,

408
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:12,640
Speaker 2: but it's not always that far off.

409
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, it's the oil price near term is

410
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 8: incredibly difficult to predict, you know. I think it's just

411
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 8: over one hundred dollars a barrel on Brent crude today.

412
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 8: You know, one could very easily make an argument that

413
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 8: the market is possibly underreacting in the near term to

414
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,880
Speaker 8: what can potentially happen. We saw moves of foot overnight

415
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,360
Speaker 8: to try to initiate talks towards some sort of off

416
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 8: ramp from some of the tensions that have set in

417
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 8: Trump saying that you know, he'd sent via Pakistan a

418
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 8: fifteen point planned to Iran. The Iranians recently as a

419
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 8: couple of hours ago sort of fairly clearly rejecting that

420
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 8: move and therefore indicating that perhaps talks or not imminent.

421
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 8: I think it's clear that the US, you know that

422
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 8: President Trump is probably under estimated the fallout from the

423
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 8: invasion of Iran, would like very much to de escalate,

424
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,119
Speaker 8: but doesn't really know how to de escalate while saving

425
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 8: face and maintaining you know, a victory in the eyes

426
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 8: of the US voting populace. So that's pretty you know,

427
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 8: it's going to carry on being quite volatile in the

428
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 8: near term. I think the oil place remains elevated. But

429
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 8: what's more interesting, if you look at twelve month forward

430
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 8: oil futures, you know the market's still discounting the fact

431
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 8: that oil in twelve months time will return to somewhere

432
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 8: near the mid seventy dollars a barrel market. I think

433
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 8: the biggest, bigger risk for the global economy is, even

434
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 8: in the event of a de escalation of tensions and

435
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 8: some sort of normality of oil supply out of the

436
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 8: Middle East through the straits of Humors, I think behavioral

437
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 8: changes are going to dictate that the oil place may

438
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 8: settle structurally at higher.

439
00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 2: Levels than that.

440
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,479
Speaker 8: And we all know what impacts the oil price has

441
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 8: on global inflation, and indeed you know intrast rate cycles

442
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 8: across the globe and indeed level bro so you know

443
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 8: a highly uncertain outcome, and you know you could argue

444
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 8: that a somewhat sanguine response out of markets at the moment.

445
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 2: Christian, thanks so much, portfolio manager at ninety one, bringing

446
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 2: the time to six thirty.

447
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 1: One up Stephen on seven two seven oh two one

448
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: seven two.

449
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 2: Well, lots of conversations already today talking fuel prices, talking,

450
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 2: what do you work from home if the fuel price jumps?

451
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 9: Hi, Stephen, you mentioned that fuel prices are going up

452
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 9: next week or so, But today I just paid twenty

453
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,959
Speaker 9: seven Rand fifty for diesel at en one, the petrol

454
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 9: point on your way, Amanstrap. So are they going up

455
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 9: next week? All they gone up already.

456
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 4: Hi, Stephen Lucretia Here.

457
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 10: I'm also one that loves to go to the office

458
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 10: because I do enjoy seeing my colleagues in that. But

459
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 10: I cannot tighten my belt any more than I have.

460
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 10: So if my boss said to me tomorrow I can

461
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 10: work from home just until the oil prices come down,

462
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 10: pickful prices, I would jump at it immediately.

463
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I can understand that. I mean, it's

464
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 2: a perfectly rational decision. It would save you a lot

465
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 2: of money. I know that there's suggestions that the fuel

466
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: levee increase, it should be shelved, or the road ax

467
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 2: in front levee should be shelved. But then government needs

468
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 2: to get the money from somewhere else. And this is

469
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: always the problem when we're beholden to something that we

470
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: can't control, like fuel prices. In the end, I think

471
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 2: we all know what's going to happen. We're just going

472
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 2: to pay twenty one minutes to seven.

473
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 3: Seven o two email him on Stephen at seven two

474
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 3: dot co dot.

475
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: Z eighteen minutes to seven. We're talking about transport and

476
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 2: having to work from home and all the rest money.

477
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,959
Speaker 2: We're reporting this morning that the agency that manages our

478
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 2: national road Sanrall they want to change current regulations about

479
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 2: the services that can be provided along them. So, as

480
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: I understand it, they're able to control currently what the

481
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: road is used for. So basically it's a road, okay.

482
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 2: Now they seem to be asking to be allowed to

483
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 2: regulate what kind of business could be established along the

484
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: road and other words, just as an example, they could

485
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: say that, in fact they will provide electric car charging points.

486
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: They would also have the legal power to sort of

487
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 2: license people who are doing the same thing. So imagine

488
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 2: if you like, And this is sort of quite a

489
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 2: strange thought, a government agency selling fuel while in competition

490
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: with some of the bigger brands on land that the

491
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: government agency has some legal control over. Well, one company

492
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 2: that is in fact building a network of charging stations

493
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: across the country and particularly for long distance transport, is

494
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: the company zero is the company charged the co founder

495
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: and share a charge isbert Ueber. Good evening, what's your

496
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 2: understanding of what CUNRAL is actually trying to do here?

497
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: Good evening, Steven, and good evening to your listeners.

498
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 11: Stephen Sundral has gotten absolute monopoly over the control and

499
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 11: full of access to the national roads with very good

500
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 11: reason though, with road safety reasons and safety reasons. And

501
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 11: but the problem is they now want to almost weaponize.

502
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: Or Gabert, we seem to be losing you on that

503
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: zoom link. I'm not sure if you may be cut

504
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: the video feed, things would improve on the audio feed.

505
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 2: Often does happen. We try and just strengthen that this

506
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 2: is We see it as quite an important conversation. So

507
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: we do want to hear from Shabert ru on this

508
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 2: issue if we can, and try and just understand exactly

509
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: what the issue is. Also, of course get a better

510
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: understanding of what Sonral is trying to do on this issue. Gabert,

511
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 2: I think you're back with us. Now. Let me look

512
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: at it in this way. I mean, what legal power

513
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 2: does CENRAL have at the moment, and then how do

514
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 2: they want to change that? They We'll have to abandon

515
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 2: the zoom conversation. I'm afraid, Jabert, I'm going to ask

516
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 2: you to pick up your phone if you can, and

517
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: see if we're able to just continue with the conversation

518
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: in that way, I think the problem will actually might

519
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 2: actually be on our side, embarrassingly. Just let you know

520
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 2: that we did try, and we did put in a

521
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: bid to Sandral. This was their reply to our request

522
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: for an interview. Sanral recently underwent nationwide road shows on

523
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: the rest and service facilities. See we're wait to final

524
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: report on the roadshop and waiting for a legal opinion

525
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: on the matter. You haven't quired until that time. Central

526
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: is unfortunately not able to take interviews currently, so they

527
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 2: can do a road show, but they can't talk to us. Well,

528
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: that's what we got from them, Sabe Ruin. Please to

529
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: tell you it's back with us now, all right, Jabert,

530
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: let's start again, shall we. So Central has some legal

531
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 2: power at the moment. What do you believe they're now

532
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: trying to do?

533
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 7: Well, Stephen Sunral with very good reason have got control

534
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 7: over access to their roads and certainly control over the

535
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 7: construction and the management and the safety on their roads.

536
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 7: But they've got a policy facilities rage card that actually

537
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 7: said this is in line of Sunral's name or generating

538
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 7: its own revenue, sweating its assets and ensuring commercial terms

539
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 7: are fair and market related. Now, sweating their assets means

540
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 7: sweating you mean every single other road user. So what

541
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 7: someone is trying to do now, and these sort of

542
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 7: rates they want to impose is between five and seven

543
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 7: percent on all services and between two and three percent

544
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 7: on all energy sold on those sites. So there's are

545
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 7: combined up to ten percent levy that they want to

546
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 7: impose on all businesses within their sixty meter road reserve

547
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 7: or within five hundred meters of an interchange. But you know,

548
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 7: the frightening thing is that doesn't only apply to the

549
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 7: fifteen national roads that we normally count as national roads

550
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 7: those in the end in front of them, but they

551
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 7: are also one hundred and twenty one section of provincial roads,

552
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 7: one metropolitan routes, and three district routes. And the only

553
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 7: reason this is now subject to public participation is because

554
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 7: they try to sneak this almost into the back doors,

555
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 7: just a policy announcement, and that was taken to the

556
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 7: same Supreme Court for review and sun Raw lost and

557
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 7: the court forced them to go through public participation, and

558
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 7: that's the only reason why we've got to look in

559
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 7: in this. And what's even more frightening, they don't grant

560
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 7: that access permanently anymore. So they can review that every

561
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 7: ten years, and the rates and facilities they can review

562
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 7: unilatter release. So that's like giving your local government the

563
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 7: right to just impose taxes and change taxes, and they

564
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 7: can negotiate your tax review. My tax was being So

565
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 7: it's an absolute abuse of that monopoly power that they've

566
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 7: got over the national roads. And I think it's a

567
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 7: complete overreach.

568
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: Okay, I just want to understand something. So you made

569
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: a point within five hundred meter of the roads. So say,

570
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: for example, I owned a patch of land and that

571
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: was three hundred meters away from a national road, and

572
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: I decided I was going to start a petrol station

573
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: or host one of your charging stations there. They would

574
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 2: actually be able to say you can't do that, even

575
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 2: though I would be four hundred and fifty meters away

576
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: from the road. I mean, that would be insane. No

577
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: one else could stop me doing that.

578
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 7: Stephen, That's that's the sort of overreach that we're looking at.

579
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 7: You know, there's a there's a under this Plumer Act.

580
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 7: There's the local authorities are the custodians of land use.

581
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 7: Then there's the environmental authorities that have got complete control

582
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 7: and runs a very good and transparent environmental process. And

583
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 7: then there's funuel that only how to be they just

584
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 7: a commenting authority. They're just a commenting authority to give

585
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 7: you access even outside their road reserve. And then they

586
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 7: insist you know those applications now take those requests for

587
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 7: comments from local authorities take longer than one thousand days

588
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 7: to process, so they are already abusing that commenting authority.

589
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 7: So can you imagine what happens if you now have

590
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,719
Speaker 7: to as part of your comments you have, they can

591
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 7: insist on a tariff, but it's not predetermined, and in

592
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 7: ten years time they can come back to you. You've

593
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 7: now spend fifty million, one hundred million developing your resting

594
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 7: service facility a hotel, and they can then say, okay,

595
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 7: now we have to renegotiate your rates. Completely exposed because

596
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 7: it's a it's an arbitrary and not a transparent process.

597
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 7: Completely yeah. So it's an anti developmental and an anti

598
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 7: entrepreneurial exercise and it's simply, like they said, sweating their assets.

599
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 7: But unfortunately it's the road users and South Africa is

600
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 7: going to be sweated, not the road.

601
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: No, sure, I mean. The other thing I don't quite

602
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: understand is that if I if I had my piece

603
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: of land and I was selling Coca cola and pepsi,

604
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: they would only take money from me for the use

605
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: of the land. Are you suggesting that if I was

606
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 2: now selling energy so oil, so petrol, diesel, electricity, I

607
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: would actually have to pay more for my piece of

608
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: land next to the road. I mean, that wouldn't make

609
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 2: that surely wouldn't stand legal scrutiny. It's none of their business.

610
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 7: What I sell this is this is that you're going

611
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 7: to tax you on on on turnover, between five and

612
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 7: seven percent on the pepsi you sell, and between two

613
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 7: and three percent on all the energy you saw, whether

614
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 7: it's fuel or it's electricity or anything else. So any

615
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 7: service somebody washes your car, Sanol is going to say,

616
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 7: give me seven percent of that hundred round that you

617
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 7: pay to have your car work.

618
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: Obviously, as I say, Central have said, they're not actually

619
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: responding to our request for an interview. They're waiting for

620
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: a legal opinion, et cetera. Jaber. While we have you,

621
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: we have been having lots of conversations about electric cars

622
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 2: at the moment, we know we'll get higher fuel prices.

623
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: Are you seeing much demand from electric cars for your

624
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: service on national roads at the moment. It's a big

625
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: network that you're setting up. I know it does take time.

626
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 7: Absolutely, We've had office for a charging station and these

627
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 7: are completely off grid, completely powered by renewable energy, up

628
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 7: and running now for fourteen months. That was a technical

629
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 7: proof of concept. We're now constructing two that will go

630
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 7: live during May on the M three that'll unlock the

631
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 7: three for any EV driver the two hundred and two

632
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 7: hundred kilometers, so even a plug in hybrid can jumpers

633
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 7: and that's a true economic proof of concept. They were

634
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 7: completely viable before these prices increases. And you know, electric

635
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 7: vehicles is some a better tech, and better tech always

636
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 7: wins out. And we've already seen an absolute explosion that

637
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 7: exponential growth in the sales of plugging hybrids and plugging

638
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 7: plugging hybrids is just a halfway stop to a full

639
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 7: EV and the only thing preventing a migration to EV

640
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 7: is now in South Africa is enough always on reliable

641
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 7: charging extensions. And the most amazing thing is we can

642
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 7: supply that demand with green energy, and so it's a

643
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 7: double whammy. We buy independence and security against the sort

644
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 7: of vagrancies that we now see in the international hydrocarbon market.

645
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 7: And you know that's Venezuela, then the Middle East, Venice,

646
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 7: the Russia, so that's an ongoing So we can buy independent,

647
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 7: localize that production, save on all the forests. Plus they

648
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 7: are now affordable evis in the market. We now buyers

649
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 7: even for three hundred and fifty thousand rand. And so

650
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 7: we at that absolute topping point. And I think I think,

651
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 7: at the risk of sounding like an ambulance chaser, you know,

652
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 7: I think the Donald Trump and Ran the artco is

653
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 7: playing absolutely into driving that transition.

654
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,439
Speaker 2: Jabru, thank you so much, the co founder and chair

655
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 2: of Charge as I say, san Ral have not given

656
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: us anyone to interview. Six minutes to seven.

657
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 12: The Money Show with Stephen Fletcher is brought to you

658
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 12: by Abs Islamic Business Bank, celebrating twenty years of banking

659
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 12: rooted in values.

660
00:35:58,280 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 3: Apps as are registered f FPE.

661
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: Four minutes to seven, Well, the Reserve Bank's Monetary Policy

662
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: Committee due to announces its interest rate decision tomorrow, and

663
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: up until about three weeks ago, it looked like we

664
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: would get a cut. I think almost certainly a hold

665
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 2: now because fuel prices will go up so strongly in

666
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 2: about two weeks time. But the underlying trends of our

667
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: economy were still moving in the right direction. The paying

668
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: net salary index shuring average salaries, we're at by point

669
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 2: one percent between January and February. Elise Kruger is an

670
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: independent economist. At least, Good Evening, Thanks for your time.

671
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 2: It has been quite a consistent increase in salaries, I

672
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 2: mean small month to month. What's been driving this increase?

673
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 13: Good Evening, Stevens. Yes, I think we started the year

674
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 13: often a good footing with salaries, you know, ticking high. Yes,

675
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 13: it's actually a recovery that started in twenty twenty four

676
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 13: and has been a ongoing and really reflection of bid

677
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 13: economic environmentality.

678
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 14: You know, and I think you know as I today.

679
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 14: It took a lot of talk a lot about this.

680
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 13: I'm thinking we are almost in the same scenario and

681
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 13: what we had in COVID. We'll we talk about pre

682
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 13: COVID and post COVID.

683
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 14: Now we're talking pre war and post war.

684
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 13: So we started a year quite optimistic, and we are

685
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 13: seeing that you know, still in the figures of FEP

686
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 13: that you know, celebis continue to basically stablize at an

687
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 13: innovated level. So it's up to Peep. You know, it's

688
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 13: been a good story, but.

689
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 14: Unfortunately, you know, the outlook has changed.

690
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

691
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: Well, I mean we were expecting our economy to really

692
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: sort of grow this year. Fuel prices will go up

693
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: now because of the conflict. How do you think it's

694
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: going to be. And I mean the first consequence, even

695
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 2: before field prices go will be the interest rate hold tomorrow.

696
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 13: Yes, indeed, this will be the first change you know,

697
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 13: compared to what we have expected. You know, also in

698
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 13: my scenario for the year, pricing or assumed to twenty

699
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 13: five basis point cuts in the first six months of

700
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 13: the year, and now that's definitely off the table. And

701
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 13: you know, if I do look at what might the

702
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 13: inflation numbers look alike, if we see by both April

703
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 13: and May quite if if you'll increases and a good

704
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 13: chance for the second round EFICT following that, then I'm thinking,

705
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 13: you know, hiker hiking scenario is not completely off the table.

706
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the problem is we just don't know

707
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 2: what's happening with oil prices, and already sort of commentary

708
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: that maybe the market's underplaying it. Does this have a

709
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: knock on effect on salaries or the real value of salaries?

710
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 13: Immediately you think it is a real value, I mean,

711
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 13: they you'll see an immediate impact if you know, you

712
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 13: think about an average celebty increase, maybe in the order

713
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 13: of an order of about four point five or four

714
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 13: point seven, and you're thinking about inflation now maybe four

715
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 13: or a bus so deficitally worse than what we expected.

716
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 13: You know, we expected another year of real celebrity increases

717
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 13: based on a good economic outlook, and now it seems

718
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 13: like we will most probably be in a scenario where

719
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 13: we could even have a real drop in salaries.

720
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 14: So if you'll have to see and obviously the erosion

721
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 14: of budditing power, that is the main impact. We will

722
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 14: also see in terms of the high inflation numbers.

723
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: A lot of talk about how long it would take

724
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: things to get back to well. People say normal, but

725
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: they mean back to the world before the conflict. And

726
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 2: I suppose even for us quite far away, it's so

727
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: dependent on oil that would take a while for things

728
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: to get back to the scenario we thought we were

729
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: looking for at the start of the year.

730
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 13: Absolutely, and I think, you know, the crisis.

731
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 14: That's also evolved, you know, from initially being a flow crisis.

732
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 13: With ships could just not move now to an outright

733
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 13: supply crisis in terms of oil and refined products. You know,

734
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 13: as longer as long as or the longer the conflict laws,

735
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 13: you know, the more supplies of the market, and you know,

736
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 13: to get back to the balance and to get back

737
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 13: to the levels that we would expect it, it will

738
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 13: pay quite some time.

739
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 14: So even if we do get a near term.

740
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 13: And in solution to the war, I think we will

741
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 13: be sort of stuck.

742
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 14: With higher oil prices for longer.

743
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 13: Not the current levels, but I written in the order

744
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 13: of about I did it at the barrels might be

745
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 13: a new level compared to before there's.

746
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 7: The war started.

747
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 2: Eliez Kruger, thanks so much. Independent economists really appreciate it.

748
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: Just come seven o'clock and now the Money Show with

749
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: Stephen credits on seven o two.

750
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 3: Let's walk little.

751
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

752
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: by Absoute Islamic Business Bank celebrating twenty years of banking

753
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 2: rooted in values as it's a registered FSP. Seven minutes

754
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 2: after seven, good evening, plenty to come. We will talk

755
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: in a sec about younger workers gen Z workers and

756
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 2: there's this sort of prejudice in a way from older people.

757
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: Oh they're also sensitive. Oh you can't get that based

758
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 2: out of the screen, all of that sort of thing.

759
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: We'll talk a little bit about that and management and

760
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 2: productivity in just a moment with Advit and I do.

761
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,919
Speaker 2: Trudy Brookman, the consumer law expert, talking tonight about share

762
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: block schemes. You know, when you you buy a holiday home,

763
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: or you buy a week in a holiday home, sometimes

764
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 2: things can go wrong, really quite badly wrong. We'll talk

765
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 2: a little bit about that, and then from seven thirty

766
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 2: your shape shift to this evening. Charles Savage from the

767
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: Purple Group who started really easy Equities, the way in

768
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 2: which you can buy and sell shares. You can do

769
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: all sorts of things basically from your phone, and he

770
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: was such a big part of that transition. We'll talk

771
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: to him from seven thirty looking forward to that, could

772
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: hear from you double one double A three oh seven

773
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 2: two two one four four six O five six seven

774
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: and voice notes on seven two seven O two one

775
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: seven two.

776
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: The Lanely Show with Stephen Krudis live on ninety two

777
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: point seven and one o six FM, streaming on the

778
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: Prime Media Plus.

779
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 3: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

780
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 2: I heard this evening and was very sorry to hear

781
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 2: that there had been confirmation that someone would have heard

782
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 2: on this radio many many times Terry Bell. I'm sure

783
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 2: you would have heard him described as a labor alyst.

784
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 2: That he's passed away, someone who lived. I mean, if

785
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: you see a tombstone that says he lived a full life,

786
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 2: maybe go and see if it's Terry Bell, because he

787
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 2: lived an absolutely full life from when he was quite

788
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 2: young to all sorts of things that he did. He's

789
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: also someone I mean I would speak to him from

790
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 2: time to time, sometimes in public on the radio wherever,

791
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 2: sometimes not publicly, about what was happening in the labor movement.

792
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 2: And there're two things I think I need to say.

793
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: The one is that he had just the deepest, most

794
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 2: thoughtful understanding of what was happening in the labor movement,

795
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 2: and his understanding of the history was just quite something.

796
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 2: Because his heart was with workers. I mean that you

797
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: just no one could deny that his heart was with workers.

798
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: But with that actually came something else. He had an

799
00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: incredibly deep understanding of our society. And on top of

800
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 2: those two things, which already quite immense, he was happy

801
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 2: to talk to anyone explaining things as he saw it.

802
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 2: And then he would explain it so clearly. You would

803
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: come away from the conversation. Well I always did and

804
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 2: just thought, wow, I've learned so much from that. So,

805
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: Terry Bell, you were a mensch, my friend, someone who

806
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: stood up for what you believed in all the time.

807
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 8: You were.

808
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: Really good at doing different things, interesting things, exciting things,

809
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 2: and you were a really really deep human. Terry Bell,

810
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: you lived a full life passing away today.

811
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 3: No money, show business unusual.

812
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure you've seen in many of the officers

813
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 2: that you work in that so many of the people

814
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: you work with now are much younger. And we've heard

815
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: on this show before and had a discussion about how

816
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: the gap between the parents of today and the children

817
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 2: of today his probably never been greater. In other words,

818
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 2: no other one generation following the other has had such

819
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 2: a big gap between them. Because of cell phones and

820
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 2: because of social media. But is there something really changing?

821
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: Is it a one off? Are we seeing Is it

822
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 2: true that young people, you know, something you hear all

823
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 2: the time, just don't want to work. I sort of

824
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 2: put that in in inverted commas deliberately Advita and I

825
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: do is the Africa md A jack hammerck Global Advita,

826
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 2: Good evening. I'm I'm not a part of the conversations

827
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 2: younger people have about older people, only part of the

828
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: conversations older people have about younger people. And you keep

829
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,439
Speaker 2: hearing the same thing. Oh, they're sensitive, or they don't work,

830
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: or they come to work later, or they're always looking

831
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: at their screen. Is this just the older generation being

832
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 2: the older generation?

833
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 15: I think that every generation does that to the one

834
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 15: succeeding it. But to be fair, I think there's probably

835
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 15: something genuinely different and tare with gen Z in the workplace,

836
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 15: and there's probably not directly generational, but probably more contextual.

837
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 15: And if we think about it, they enter the workforce

838
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 15: during or close to a pandemic which destabilized the social

839
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 15: contract of work for all of us. But importantly, their

840
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 15: parents or their role models were probably burning out inside

841
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 15: organizations that weren't always displaying loyalty to them, and they

842
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,399
Speaker 15: also came of a professional age where there was much

843
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 15: higher informational transparency and they could see what companies actually

844
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 15: valued versus what they say their value. So yes, definitely,

845
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 15: I think there are some ways in which they may

846
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 15: be perceived to be entitled or a little bit lazy

847
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 15: or sensitive. But they're just exercising different boundaries than their

848
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 15: generational predecessors in relation to the informational cues that they're getting,

849
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 15: and I think that surprises organizations. Probably feels quite uncomfortable.

850
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 2: Sure, I never thought of it like that, because I mean,

851
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: one of the phrases you hear that seems to be

852
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 2: related to the generation we're talking about is the phrase

853
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 2: quiet quitting. Now, people of my generation will well often

854
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,439
Speaker 2: with pride, say when I was young, I worked hard,

855
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 2: I did this, and you know I worked all the

856
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: hours in the day, and they see anything less than

857
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 2: that is quiet quitting.

858
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 14: Yeah, completely, And.

859
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 15: Look, I think the contextual clues matter. All the context

860
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 15: in which you have grown up professionally probably matters. But

861
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 15: a lot of the research shows that a lot of

862
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 15: the disengaged employees were in fact all the millennials and

863
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 15: Gen X workers. People probably mid career and mid disillusion method.

864
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 15: But the difference was that gen Z brought visibility to

865
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 15: this conversation. They talked about more, especially online. They named it,

866
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 15: and suddenly this behavior, this quiet quitting, that it existed

867
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 15: in organizations for probably for a while, had something of

868
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 15: a hashtag. And I think looking and why they disengaged

869
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 15: is probably quite important. It's very specific. They feel uncareful

870
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 15: by a manager, they don't have a sense of belonging,

871
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 15: they can't see a future at the company. And so

872
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 15: for me, as somebody who's in the people consulting space,

873
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 15: I don't see these as motivational issues or not wanting

874
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 15: to do hard work. I see these as relational issues.

875
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 15: Did the company hold up its end of the deal?

876
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 15: And when you frame it that way, I think the disengagement.

877
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 3: Kind of makes more sense.

878
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a fundamental difference here is that And

879
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 2: I have no mandate to speak for my generation. But

880
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 2: I don't think I can hold my employer responsible for

881
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: my mental health. I can hold them responsible for acts

882
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 2: that are cruel or abusive towards me. That I can

883
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 2: absolutely do, and trust me on this I will. But

884
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 2: to say, well, they didn't take steps because they didn't

885
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: notice Stephen was suffering from depression or a mental health episode.

886
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 2: I mean, that is something that's kind of foreign to me.

887
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not saying it's healthy. I'm just saying

888
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 2: it seems it's quite a foreign concept.

889
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 15: I agree, But I think there's research that shows that

890
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 15: mental well being has remained at its post pandemic lows

891
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 15: with no recovery options in sight. But the link between

892
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 15: mental health and productivity is actually the business of imperative.

893
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 15: And so when I speak to leaders, I say, high

894
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 15: stress reduces cognitive capacity, it reduces decision making quality and

895
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 15: problem solving ability, which then can't be seen as a

896
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 15: wellness conversation. It has to be a performance one. So

897
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 15: gen Z arguably being the first generation to grow up

898
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 15: with the language of mental health, it's just articulating the

899
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,479
Speaker 15: issues better. They're not absorbing the pain in the same

900
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 15: way that you know the older generation did. They're not

901
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 15: being fragile. So we have to look at the business

902
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 15: case for taking this seriously, because the cost of replacing

903
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 15: a mid level employee somewhere between half to twice their

904
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 15: annual salary. So like investing in psychological safety is actually

905
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 15: cheap by comparison.

906
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 2: No, sure, the issue of flexibility, and I mean this

907
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 2: gets to another thing. Oh never at work in time

908
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 2: or in my day, I came an hour earlier, and

909
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 2: I mean you know I did. And this is also

910
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: about being actually at the office where you can see

911
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 2: what someone is doing, and you know older people like that.

912
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: Is there a generational aspect to this, and I mean

913
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: tied to that. I think older people are sort of

914
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 2: can't wait to get away from the screen. It's not

915
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 2: like that for younger people who've grown up with it,

916
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 2: And that is a fundamental difference. It must be.

917
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 3: It is, And I think you and I have.

918
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 15: Spoken about this before, and I know you hang on

919
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 15: to every conversation we have, so like that. There's the

920
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 15: caveat that as somebody who's early in your career, you

921
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 15: should want to be in the office. You should want

922
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 15: to learn at the knee or the laptop of somebody

923
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 15: who's done it all before. Because it's not just learning content,

924
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 15: it's learning leadership. It's learning decision making capability, how things

925
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 15: happen in real time. But I think it is much

926
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 15: bigger than gen Z. But gen Z is where it's

927
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 15: most acutely felt the return to office mandates are quite

928
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 15: a fascinating case study in leadership because the gap between

929
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 15: what leaders say and what they actually value is pretty big.

930
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 15: And when organizations came to be data driven, the decision

931
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 15: to mandate five days in the office doesn't support that

932
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:05,280
Speaker 15: because productivity data in favor of flexible work is quite favorable.

933
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 15: You know, it's higher performance, it's better well being. So

934
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 15: what's actually driving the return to office is in a

935
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 15: lot of cases managerial anxiety at this unfair conflation of

936
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 15: visibility with productivity, and that's something that needs to be

937
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 15: looked at. So, yes, being in the office is very

938
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 15: good for learning opportunities, but at the same time there

939
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 15: needs to be a balance.

940
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 2: I mean, leaders of officers, CEOs and all the rest

941
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 2: tend to be older. The people who make the decisions

942
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 2: about who's employed. How do they manage younger people differently?

943
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,879
Speaker 2: And I wonder sometimes if the divide between the two

944
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: groups can be so big that older people are actually

945
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 2: going to try and employ older people where they can

946
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 2: someone like me, if you know what I mean, which

947
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: actually would be a terrible thing to do, be a

948
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 2: terrible outcome. But I do wonder if that those thoughts

949
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 2: go through people because in an interview they'll understand each other.

950
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 15: That is so true, and I mean, I guess that's

951
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 15: another bias that we need to look at. It can't

952
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 15: we can't claim it's an unconscious bias once we speak

953
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 15: it out loud. But you are seeing that in a

954
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 15: lot of companies. There are companies that are raising the

955
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 15: retirement age. There's been a researcher I just read today

956
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 15: to say that a lot of South Africans aren't ready

957
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 15: for retirement at the age of sixty or sixty three.

958
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 15: And I'm not saying that's what companies are considering when

959
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 15: they're raising the retirement age. There probably is something of

960
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 15: you know, like understands like but in order like there's

961
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,919
Speaker 15: also a tendency to say, suck it up, but a cup,

962
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 15: But actually, this is the future of the workforce and

963
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 15: the people who are approaching historical retirement age. Now we

964
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 15: should be protecting the people who are coming up in

965
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 15: the ranks because.

966
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 4: They are the future.

967
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Advita, so much to talk about with

968
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 2: this ADVETA nine is the Africa AMDA jack Hammer Global

969
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: nineteen minutes after seven.

970
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 12: The Money Show with Stephen Krewitz on seven oh two

971
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 12: seven o two.

972
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 2: So one way to have an affordable holiday most system

973
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 2: for your families to buy a holiday share block scheme. Essentially,

974
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 2: you have a share and a property. You use it

975
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 2: quite often and usually as part of a bigger state.

976
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 2: You don't have to manage it yourself, have the certainty

977
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 2: of knowing that that block of time is yours. You

978
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 2: can imagine Christmas week or you know, the week of

979
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 2: the middle of the year, holidays or whatever. Trudy Brookman

980
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,959
Speaker 2: is a consumer law attorney who's worked with these truly

981
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 2: good evening, I mean that many different things in this market.

982
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 2: You get time share, you then get a share block.

983
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 2: What's a share.

984
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 16: Block if you can imagine Stephen and good evening to

985
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 16: you and the listeners. If you imagine a few friends

986
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 16: or family members getting together and buying a holiday home together,

987
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 16: because of course you don't live there, you don't need

988
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 16: it every week of the year. And this is a

989
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 16: formalization of that idea. So it's a holiday our house

990
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 16: owned by a company. The shares in that company are

991
00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 16: then sold to consumers, and in exchange for ownership of

992
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 16: the shares, you have a right to stay for a

993
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 16: fixed period each year, and you have to pay a levee,

994
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 16: and the turtle levees of the shareholders are intended to

995
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 16: cover the expenses on the property on the house. So

996
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 16: that's there may be various houses in a particular share

997
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 16: block scheme, and that's basically how it works. So timeshare,

998
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 16: you have units or points, and you have varied interests

999
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 16: that allow you to get weekends, weeks stay, et cetera.

1000
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 16: In the course of the year, you also pay levies.

1001
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 16: But with this you own a share which has wonderful

1002
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 16: benefits and real drawbacks.

1003
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 2: Okay, so I mean the drawbacks are interesting. I mean

1004
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 2: sometimes these places are run by someone. They have an

1005
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 2: actual operator.

1006
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 13: Right, yes, correat.

1007
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: So then where do things go wrong?

1008
00:53:54,760 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 16: It often goes wrong with the operator. So in in

1009
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 16: one instance where I'm dealing with a group of clients

1010
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 16: who are suing the developer and the and the shed

1011
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 16: block companies in which they purchased shares quite a few

1012
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 16: years ago, and they're suing for their purchase price back.

1013
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 16: They have found that the management is really shoddy. So

1014
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 16: this resort was advertised as a private residence club which

1015
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 16: provides its owners with all the best services and amenities

1016
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 16: of a five star hotel and appreciating investment in perpetuity

1017
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 16: what they actually experienced, and it's been just patchy. So

1018
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 16: some experiences were better, but the worst experiences were things

1019
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 16: like cockroach infestations, dilapidated furnishings, the air corn is broken

1020
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 16: and it's in case it end, so that really the

1021
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 16: problem block brains stand in smelly carpets. And then financial

1022
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 16: irregular ready is where there's a sort of a cross

1023
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 16: subsidization from the Shapelock scheme of other developments in the

1024
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 16: in the larger states. So those are some of the complaints.

1025
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 16: There's also a bit of a discrepancy often with the

1026
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 16: shaplock schemes where are developer it's very ambitious and they

1027
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,919
Speaker 16: build a property for so many million that they sell

1028
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 16: it for three times that price in terms of the

1029
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 16: shares if you add them up, and then you promise

1030
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:39,760
Speaker 16: that this is an investment that my clients have found

1031
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 16: that they get on the on the account of the

1032
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 16: estate seventy five percent depreciation of what they're paid and

1033
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 16: property is supposed to appreciate.

1034
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 2: Right, So I mean one of the problems with this

1035
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 2: is that you can't predict the future. And you know

1036
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 2: that a car is not going to last forever. A

1037
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 2: property you do expect to last forever, which means that

1038
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 2: you really are relying on the people who run that

1039
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 2: for a very long time, and that would seem to

1040
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 2: be the issue. This must happen, I suppose quite often

1041
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 2: if you consider how the life expectancy of a property

1042
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 2: like that.

1043
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 16: Yes, so very much depends on proper maintenance, adjusting the

1044
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 16: levees so that there is sufficient maintenance, and like keeping

1045
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 16: up of the with the fashions and the and the

1046
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 16: renovations that are necessary to keep a place looking sparkling

1047
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 16: at all times. That you also have certain areas which

1048
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 16: just go out of fashion. I mean, in my grand

1049
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 16: grandmother's era, Belita was the place to go, and I

1050
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 16: think it's gone out of quite a light now.

1051
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 13: Durban.

1052
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:52,240
Speaker 16: We have a few clients you've invested in share blocks

1053
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 16: there and they're really struggling to sell that. You have

1054
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 16: those shares, but then you struggle to sell them at all.

1055
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 2: So the Consumer Protection Act does it apply in a.

1056
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 4: Case like this, Yes, it does.

1057
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 16: So if you buy us in your individual name, then

1058
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 16: you're a consumer purchasing from the developer. The developers acting

1059
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 16: in the ordinary course of business. So that Consumer Protection

1060
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 16: Act applies, and one of its provisions that applies very

1061
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 16: specifically is that developers are prohibited from charging an unfair

1062
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 16: and reasonable or unjust price or from its misleading consumers.

1063
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 16: And that's what some of my clients have found. In

1064
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 16: other cases, there are other issues that the levees are exorbitant,

1065
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 16: especially for what you're getting. The Companies Act also applies,

1066
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 16: and it protects minority shareholders. So what often happens is

1067
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 16: that the developer maintains a majority shareholding and they call

1068
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 16: the shots in terms of managing the various companies earning

1069
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 16: the properties, and as a minority sharehold you are left

1070
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 16: high and dry, except that the Company's Act provides you

1071
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 16: with the right to put your shares back to the

1072
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 16: tutor share block company for your original purchase price if

1073
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 16: the property is managed in a way that is a

1074
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 16: prescible and fairly prejudicial to you as a minority shareholder,

1075
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 16: unfair lyad disregard your interests. So that often is a

1076
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 16: remedy that we can utilize.

1077
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 2: So truly, I remember years ago there were public hearings

1078
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: into the timeshare industry and someone said, as part of

1079
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 2: their testimony they had been unable to get their timeshare agreement,

1080
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 2: that they were unfortunately not long for this world, and

1081
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 2: intended to leave it to Julius Malemarin as well, because

1082
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 2: he thought that the timeshare company would find that. I mean,

1083
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 2: I remember the scene, and I found that really quite something.

1084
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 2: How difficult is it to get out of a share

1085
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 2: block scheme.

1086
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 16: It's going harder than even tim share. At least it's

1087
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 16: time share. Of all these resellers who will give you

1088
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 16: maybe a hundredth of of what you paid. With some

1089
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 16: of the share blocks, you can literally just not find

1090
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 16: a buyer. So, but our firm has figured out some

1091
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 16: methodology in terms of how to get you out of

1092
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 16: your share block ownership. Even if you don't get value

1093
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 16: for your shares, at least you get out of those

1094
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 16: oppressive levees that often escalate for above inflash and rate.

1095
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 16: So what we generally do is to write to the

1096
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 16: managers and say that our client wants to get out,

1097
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 16: and do they have an exit policy. If there is

1098
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 16: none of those, we go to the extreme step of

1099
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 16: careering the share certificates to them and saying that our

1100
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 16: client abandons them.

1101
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 8: You can do that.

1102
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 16: And that at least gets you out of being a

1103
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 16: shareholder and you don't need to keep on paying the

1104
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 16: levees forcing them you never use.

1105
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 2: Truly, Brookman, thank you so much, really appreciated consumer law

1106
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 2: expert on The Money Show.

1107
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 3: The Money Show shape shift is.

1108
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 2: It's just gone twenty four minutes now to eighth the time. Well,

1109
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 2: sometimes someone comes along and it comes together with a

1110
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 2: group of people and together they are actually able to

1111
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: completely disrupt an entire industry. And one of those people

1112
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 2: is Charles Savage. He's currently the CEO of the Purple Greep,

1113
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 2: the own Easy Equities. And what they did was they

1114
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 2: were able to change the way you trade, chair stocks, ETFs,

1115
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 2: all sorts of things completely differently to what things were,

1116
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 2: say thirty or forty years ago. And I'm very pleased

1117
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 2: to tell you that we've been able to drag him

1118
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 2: out of the sea and off the surfboard and he's

1119
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 2: agreed to speak to you tonight. Charles Savage. Good evening,

1120
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 2: and thanks so much for taking the time to speak

1121
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 2: to us.

1122
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 3: Good eating everyone, And Josh, thanks Stephen for having me on.

1123
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 2: I understand and I got this from the Easy Equities website.

1124
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 2: You're a keen surfer. But you studied. You were at

1125
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 2: school at cin Stidians, and the last time I checked,

1126
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 2: they didn't have a surf school. How were you able

1127
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 2: to learn to surf?

1128
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 17: Yeah, I was at Sachs Junior in Cape Town, so

1129
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 17: I grew up. I was born and bred in Cape Town.

1130
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 17: I went to high school at Cinstilians and then went

1131
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 17: to UCT for university. So up until the last two decades,

1132
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 17: spent a better part of my life at the coast.

1133
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 17: But I to classify myself as a surfer as a

1134
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 17: little bit of the stretch of the imagination, given how

1135
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 17: far I lived from the sea today.

1136
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, and I mean it happens to so many

1137
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 2: of us. I mean, I didn't have a surfing career

1138
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 2: at all, but I know what it's like. You you

1139
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 2: went through a phase. So after UCT, it seemed that

1140
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 2: you were sort of going around the world kind of

1141
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 2: as much as you could. And then you, I don't

1142
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:46,919
Speaker 2: know if the right word is stumbled into the world

1143
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 2: of the Internet. And I remember that period. The Internet

1144
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 2: was a new thing. We had these terrible dial up

1145
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 2: modems from Telcom. What were you seeing at the time.

1146
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 17: Yeah, it was I mean I'd never heard of the Internet.

1147
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 17: I's not traveling, and then kind of every backpack as

1148
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 17: I ended up at had an Internet terminal, and for

1149
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 17: my generation, it replaced the need for a telephone and

1150
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 17: a fax machine. And online commerce was no sense for

1151
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 17: almost non existent at the time, but it was starting,

1152
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 17: and there were two industries that caught my attention. The

1153
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 17: one was just the travel industries, which is so much

1154
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 17: more convenient to be able to use the Internet to

1155
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 17: find accommodation, to book a flight, etc. And the other

1156
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 17: one was connected to an interest that I had at university,

1157
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 17: which was investing in shares, and there were no share

1158
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 17: investment platforms but back then. But I started to wonder

1159
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 17: or think about what it might be like if students

1160
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 17: like me could access the Internet to make investments and

1161
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 17: buy shares. But honestly, back then I was naive because

1162
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 17: the ecosystem was just so poor. Everything was slow, it

1163
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 17: was expensive, you didn't have mobile phones in your hands.

1164
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 17: But it sowed the seeds for eventually what happened decades

1165
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 17: later with easy equities.

1166
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 2: So you went through a phase of basically working in

1167
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 2: internet commerce. I mean, I don't know what exactly you

1168
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 2: were doing. Was at marketing, but lots of different websites,

1169
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 2: I presume because suddenly everybody realized you needed a website,

1170
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 2: otherwise you just weren't going to be alive as a

1171
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 2: company anymore.

1172
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 17: Yeah, my first job, when I got back from traveling

1173
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 17: around the world, my first real job was actually internal

1174
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 17: accountant at Halton Racket Club, which is what Virgin Active became.

1175
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 17: And that was a pretty disappointing experience. I mean, we

1176
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 17: all those who are old enough like me to know

1177
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 17: what happened there, but that was one of the biggest

1178
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 17: corporate frauds from a list of company up until that point.

1179
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 17: And I was internal audit. So it was I'd been

1180
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 17: there twelve or fifteen months, and you know, dispassion. It

1181
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 17: was dispassion about what I was doing. And a friend

1182
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 17: of mine from university was building websites for this e

1183
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 17: commerce the start of the e commerce kind of dot

1184
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 17: com era, and he was just having so much fun

1185
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 17: with it, and it connected back to my travels, and

1186
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 17: here was a guy doing what I thought, might you

1187
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 17: might be worth doing, And so I jumped ship. And

1188
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 17: I hadn't never sold the website, I'd hardly used the internet.

1189
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 17: I wrote a little bit of code. At university, I

1190
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 17: double majored in accounts and it so I could write

1191
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 17: a little bit of code. And I joined them and

1192
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 17: to try to build all of almost all of the

1193
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 17: first in category e commerce sites in South Africa. And interestingly,

1194
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 17: the first one we ever built and launched, which was

1195
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,959
Speaker 17: the first ecommace one South Africa, sold South African seeds.

1196
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 3: To the rest of the world.

1197
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 17: And you know who would have thought of that back then,

1198
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 17: But we the benefit that we got was we managed

1199
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 17: to look inside all of these disparate businesses, understand their

1200
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 17: business models, and then bring their catalogs and their businesses online,

1201
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 17: which was it was like an MBA for me because

1202
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 17: I'd been so one, I'd had very few jobs to

1203
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 17: very little experience as a result of that, and my

1204
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 17: and what I'd studied wasn't really business, and so it

1205
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,439
Speaker 17: gave me a kind of accelerated view or an NBA

1206
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 17: if you like, view into what the future of commerce

1207
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 17: might look like back.

1208
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety eight, nineteen ninety nine.

1209
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 2: So in a way, you were right at the beginning

1210
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 2: of the revolution. And I've often noticed that that people

1211
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 2: who we speak to as a shape shifter and people

1212
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 2: who've been very successful in a society are able to

1213
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 2: get in at the start of a big change. And clearly,

1214
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 2: from what you're saying, you got to have an understanding

1215
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 2: of that that was probably lightly as a head of

1216
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 2: where just about everybody else was.

1217
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 17: Yeah, you know, everyone was against the internet. And you know,

1218
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,919
Speaker 17: it feels no different to what AI feels like today. Yeah,

1219
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 17: you know, they were fast to the people that were

1220
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 17: passionate about what the Internet was going to do. There

1221
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 17: were another you know, fifteen or twenty percent who could

1222
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 17: believe the future but weren't leaning into it. And then

1223
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 17: the vast majority just said it was a phase, it

1224
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 17: was a fan, it would pass, and I thing would

1225
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 17: ever come of it. And they all celebrated because they

1226
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 17: believed they were right when the dot com bubble burst,

1227
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 17: And the truth was, there was way too much exuberance

1228
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:11,000
Speaker 17: about how quickly the e commerce might get traction. But

1229
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 17: the five percent were right, they were just early, and

1230
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 17: the fifteen percent were right to be skeptical. But we're

1231
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 17: watching it closely and probably counted themselves as early adopters,

1232
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 17: and you know.

1233
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 3: The eighty percent were wrong.

1234
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 17: And I feel the same way exactly about AI now

1235
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 17: and so you know, for me, if I look back

1236
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 17: at it, it's easy to pick the fastest streams. And

1237
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 17: I think as as youngsters looking for a career, you

1238
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 17: just got to find yourself in a stream that's moving

1239
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 17: faster than the other streams, because even the slowest boat

1240
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 17: and the fast moving stream moves faster than a fast

1241
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 17: boat in a slow moving stream.

1242
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 3: And that's for me what the Internet presented.

1243
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 17: It was we were we had the opportunity to be

1244
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 17: a boat and a very fast moving stream, and there

1245
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 17: weren't that many boats with us.

1246
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 2: So it was I was.

1247
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 17: It was right place, right time, a bit of luck

1248
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 17: and a little bit of foresight, but yeah, lots of luck.

1249
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 11: I guess.

1250
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 2: So you'd already had in your head the idea of

1251
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 2: being able to sort of trade online, a much more

1252
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 2: direct way of trading. When did you think it might

1253
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 2: actually rarely first be possible to sort of start what

1254
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 2: you eventually started.

1255
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 17: Well, in two thousand I I one of my biggest

1256
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 17: clients was a company called GT two four seven dot com,

1257
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 17: which is still in the Purple Group today, and there

1258
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 17: were a bunch of international founders, one South African and

1259
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 17: four internationals who believed that the Internet was going to

1260
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 17: change trading, specifically derivatives trading, what we call CfDS today,

1261
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 17: and they convinced me that the future had arrived for that,

1262
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 17: and I jumped ship and I became CETO of the

1263
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 17: group and focused on one business, you know, one online

1264
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 17: e commerce business. And at the time it was it

1265
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 17: looked like it was a market opportunity for ever. But

1266
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,600
Speaker 17: we quickly worked out that not everyone had access and

1267
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 17: that fundamentally, trading was a sophisticated game, and so we

1268
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 17: rarely focused on sophisticated places, sophisticated people, and building platforms

1269
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 17: for people who knew. We had a high level of

1270
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 17: confidence and skills, and from two thousand to two thousand

1271
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 17: and seven we built a business. We raised two million

1272
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 17: dollars to fund the business, and in two thousand and

1273
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 17: seven that business sold to Purple Group what was Purple

1274
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 17: Capital the Purple Group today for thirty six million euros,

1275
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 17: so kind of eighteen times it's money in seven years.

1276
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 17: And we had customers all around the globe. We had

1277
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 17: offices on every continent, We had customers almost on every

1278
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 17: content as well. We were trading across forty four exchanges.

1279
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 17: But the truth was, at that time, that thirty six

1280
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 17: million euro business served less than twenty thousand customers. So

1281
01:08:56,040 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 17: it was a very niche business servicing highly sophisticated customers.

1282
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:05,799
Speaker 17: And that was, I guess, the foundation for what became

1283
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 17: Easy Equities because that game was very niche.

1284
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 3: I didn't speak to my desire to get if you like.

1285
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 17: Students investing, young people investing, and we served the needs

1286
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:21,719
Speaker 17: of a very small group of sophisticated individuals who quite frankly,

1287
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 17: didn't need us.

1288
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 3: And it didn't. It wasn't changing people's lives in a

1289
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 3: positive way.

1290
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 17: It wasn't something that I had a big runway for

1291
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 17: growth or positive influence on society. And I kind of

1292
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 17: lost interest in that, and it took me a whole

1293
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 17: lot longer to work out why and what to do next.

1294
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 17: And that came about in twenty thirteen where I was

1295
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 17: sitting on a beach with friends and family in Rozambique,

1296
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 17: and all of them have known me for a long time,

1297
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 17: and I said to them, why is it that none

1298
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 17: of you invest? Because the dialogue that we used as

1299
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 17: broke was that the customers were poor savers, that the

1300
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 17: customer was fundamentally the problem, and at the end they

1301
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 17: were just you know, they were never going to take

1302
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 17: it up because they'd rather buy cars than buy shares.

1303
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,560
Speaker 17: And I asked everyone on the beach to say, what

1304
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 17: is it?

1305
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 2: Is it us?

1306
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 17: Have we credit the wrong products and services? Or is

1307
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 17: it due are just not interested? And all of them,

1308
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:24,160
Speaker 17: and some of them were twelve years old, and some

1309
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 17: of them were forty years old, but all of them

1310
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 17: said the same thing in a different way. And the

1311
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,720
Speaker 17: answer led to easy equities. Because what they said is

1312
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 17: they'd tried it. They were intimidated. Was it seemed too sophisticated,

1313
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 17: The concepts were unfamiliar with them, The words were used,

1314
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 17: and the language we used felt like a closed private group.

1315
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:46,760
Speaker 17: And so and the next thing they said is and

1316
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 17: I said to them, I said, well, what if we

1317
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 17: make it easy? And they said, well, then we would

1318
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 17: all buy shares, every single one of us, and we

1319
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 17: would do it all the time. And that was you know,

1320
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 17: I don't know why it took me so long to

1321
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 17: ask my customers, and neither of us, but that was

1322
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 17: the foundation for easy equities.

1323
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 2: So, I mean, I was trying to think of the

1324
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 2: of what it was like before, and what it was

1325
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:08,680
Speaker 2: like before was kind of I mean probably the right

1326
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 2: word is stuffy, but you know, you'd see an old

1327
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 2: movie someone will say, call my broker, you know, because

1328
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 2: they want to make a trade. So it was really

1329
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,600
Speaker 2: a big change. And I also wondered that when you

1330
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 2: were starting, most people would have been sitting maybe at home,

1331
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 2: maybe at work on a PC, you know, one of

1332
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 2: those things that has a box and a fan and

1333
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 2: then another monitor and a mouse and trading like that.

1334
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 2: It wasn't like it is now where you would just

1335
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 2: have an app on your phone, and that might also

1336
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:36,639
Speaker 2: have been sort of one of the reasons why suddenly

1337
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:38,720
Speaker 2: there was a widespread adoption a bit later.

1338
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right, Stephen.

1339
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 17: I mean the ecosystem for these business models like ours

1340
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:51,720
Speaker 17: is firstly, you need money too to move easily through

1341
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 17: the system. And so when you think about that, what

1342
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 17: do you mean, Well, you need lots of bank accounts

1343
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 17: and you need low cost access to moving money, which

1344
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 17: wasn't around until the last decade. You know, the proliferation

1345
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 17: of bank accounts, you know, thanks to F and B

1346
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,559
Speaker 17: and Capitech and Discovery Bank and everyone else, has only

1347
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 17: happened in the last two decades. So the ecosystem for

1348
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 17: money to move cheaply and easily through the ecosystem has

1349
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 17: only been built in the last two decades, so you

1350
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 17: couldn't have done it before. There then you need low cost,

1351
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 17: high speed access to the Internet. Now that has only

1352
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 17: happened in the last decade. I mean, you know, a

1353
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 17: decade ago you were paying three to four times what

1354
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 17: you paid today for one tenth of the speed and

1355
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:36,799
Speaker 17: access point and so not everyone could access the Internet.

1356
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 17: And then the final piece you need is you need

1357
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:41,640
Speaker 17: a device to access that Internet wherever you might be.

1358
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 17: And the PC didn't serve that needed only served the

1359
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 17: needs of people who were in the were either in

1360
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 17: the employer of a company that gave them PCs or

1361
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 17: had the means to buy PCs for themselves, which again

1362
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 17: was highly exclusionary. And if you just look at where

1363
01:12:57,360 --> 01:12:59,679
Speaker 17: we stand today, all of those things have been addressed

1364
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 17: ecosystem friction points, but without them there would be no

1365
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 17: e commerce model for easy equities to sit on top of.

1366
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:10,720
Speaker 17: So the eco system players have done their job and

1367
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 17: given us our moments so that we can reach our

1368
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 17: customers wherever they might be, so they can invest in

1369
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 17: the shares they love.

1370
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 2: Your shape shifter of this evening is Charles Savage. He's

1371
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 2: with us through until eight o'clock. We have another ten

1372
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:25,599
Speaker 2: minutes with them. He's the CEO of the Purple Group,

1373
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:29,640
Speaker 2: but rarely you'll probably know the brand Easy Equities and

1374
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 2: how they've changed trading. More from Charles in a moment.

1375
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 12: The Money Show with Steven Flutez is brought to you

1376
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 12: by Abser Islamic Business Bank, celebrating twenty years of banking

1377
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 12: rooted in values.

1378
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 3: Apps are rated at their FSP The Money Show shape

1379
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 3: Shift is your shape Shifter.

1380
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 2: This evening Charles Savage, the CEO of the Purple Group

1381
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:54,759
Speaker 2: and of course one of the founders of Easy Equities.

1382
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 2: That Charles have one or two questions about the sort

1383
01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 2: of service as it is now and obvious is how

1384
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 2: many people are kind of online treading at any one time.

1385
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 2: And I'm sure you kind of have that dart and

1386
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's quite quite changeable during the day.

1387
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 17: Yeah, So we've got there one point two million active

1388
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 17: customers in the group at any at any point during

1389
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 17: the day, there's about eight to twelve percent of them

1390
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 17: online checking their portfolios looking for a new share to

1391
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 17: buy or one to sell. But at the peak period,

1392
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 17: and typically you know, the peak periods are on market open,

1393
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 17: so all the open, JOSE open, and then US open,

1394
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 17: you'll get as much as thirty five to forty percent

1395
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 17: of your customers online at a single moment. And again,

1396
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 17: you know in specific news events, so for example, an

1397
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 17: interest rate decision or Trump talking about a war in Iran,

1398
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 17: that concentrates minds and thoughts around their portfolio, not because

1399
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 17: they want to buy or sell, but to see what.

1400
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 3: Those events, what the effect of those events might be

1401
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:57,680
Speaker 3: on their portfolio.

1402
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 2: I would presume at times like now, with the conflicts

1403
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:05,560
Speaker 2: in Iran and Trump being so changeable and frankly irrational,

1404
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 2: you see a lot more traffic people checking their portfolios

1405
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 2: a bit more often.

1406
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fascinating.

1407
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 17: So whenever there's a market dislocation because of an event

1408
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 17: like Trump, be it a positive or a negative one,

1409
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:24,960
Speaker 17: there's more media around the consequences for financial markets, which

1410
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:26,520
Speaker 17: means you've got free advertising.

1411
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:28,600
Speaker 3: And so there's a direct correlation.

1412
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:33,360
Speaker 17: The more news worthy the markets are, the more customers

1413
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 17: register and join us.

1414
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 3: So there's a direct correlation between the newsflow and who

1415
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 3: joins us.

1416
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and put this as politely as

1417
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 2: I can, because it's such an interesting point. But Warren

1418
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 2: Ingram does personal finance with us once a week, and

1419
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:52,639
Speaker 2: he always says, you shouldn't be looking at your portfolio

1420
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 2: all the time. You should be making your decisions, stick

1421
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 2: to a strategy and sort of loss it, you know,

1422
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 2: leave it there. Your customers are doing something very different,

1423
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 2: and part of me thinks, well, maybe they're making more money.

1424
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 2: I can hear Warren Ingram in my head saying, well,

1425
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 2: maybe they aren't. I mean, I don't know if you

1426
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:10,640
Speaker 2: have a view on that.

1427
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 8: Now.

1428
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 2: I don't mean to attack your business model, but it's

1429
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:13,679
Speaker 2: such an interesting question.

1430
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:18,000
Speaker 17: It's a fascinating question. And I know Warren well and

1431
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 17: he'll know that I would argue with him on this point.

1432
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 17: But that is the dialogue, or that is the narrative

1433
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 17: that the industry wanted you to believe, and they believed

1434
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,560
Speaker 17: in themselves. I mean, I'll never forget this. When we

1435
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 17: started these equities, I found myself in the boardroom of

1436
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 17: a very large asset manager I won't name them, and

1437
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:38,679
Speaker 17: I told him what we were doing, and we wanted

1438
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:40,640
Speaker 17: their support. We wanted them to list their funds on

1439
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 17: our platform. And they turned around to me and said,

1440
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 17: and this was the CEO of this organization. He said

1441
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 17: to me, Charles, what you're doing is irresponsible. Customers are

1442
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:52,960
Speaker 17: not smart enough to look after their portfolios. Their behavior

1443
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 17: will let them down. We're here to protect them. Now,

1444
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 17: what Warren is saying is a long way from that.

1445
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 17: But here's what eleven years of watching these customers do

1446
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:07,479
Speaker 17: what they want to do, not what they're told to do.

1447
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 3: Here's what they do.

1448
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 17: Firstly, they make as much money from the markets as

1449
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 17: the top twenty five percent of asset managers. So they

1450
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 17: would rank if you took easy equities and you said

1451
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 17: put all the funds together and said what's the return

1452
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 17: profile versus our unit trust industry, they would be in

1453
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:25,639
Speaker 17: the top quarte, so in the top twenty five percent.

1454
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 17: So they are doing as well as the best asset managers.

1455
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:31,479
Speaker 17: That's the first thing. The second thing is they're getting

1456
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 17: better at doing it. Now, why with hindsight, what can

1457
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:37,720
Speaker 17: we unpack? Because they pitch up every time they pitch

1458
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 17: up as an opportunity to engage and to learn something new,

1459
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,479
Speaker 17: to learn that the effects of Trump having worn Iran

1460
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 17: increases oil price. Increased oil prices means there's going to

1461
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:50,799
Speaker 17: be inflationary pressure. Bonds are going to come under pressure,

1462
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:53,680
Speaker 17: and so will some equities, but some other equities will

1463
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:58,759
Speaker 17: respond positively. They fundamentally have learned this because they're engaging

1464
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 17: with it every single day. The narrative that we must

1465
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 17: stand back from our portfolios and just let it ride

1466
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:11,160
Speaker 17: is it's naive because the truth is, and any asset

1467
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 17: manager will say this, is that investing is a long

1468
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 17: term game and the education is forever. And what you

1469
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:20,639
Speaker 17: want is your customers is to go on this education

1470
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:23,800
Speaker 17: journey together with you, to check in on their portfolios

1471
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,120
Speaker 17: and to ask the question why why did it go up?

1472
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 2: Why did it go down?

1473
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 3: And then to say, well, what should I do about it?

1474
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 17: And it's incredible to watch how sophisticated these portfolios are,

1475
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 17: how well these customers are doing, and how much better

1476
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 17: are they getting? And if I can just leave one

1477
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:42,840
Speaker 17: number behind, it's this because people would say, you know, whatever,

1478
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 17: Chroals is talking his own business, but he has a

1479
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,240
Speaker 17: number and it's in our financials and so it's an

1480
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 17: audited number.

1481
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:51,240
Speaker 3: Our customers have on average.

1482
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:54,800
Speaker 17: Grown their portfolios for eleven years now at a compounded

1483
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 17: annual growth rate of fifty percent. Now, half of that

1484
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 17: thirty percent comes from their deposit behavior. So obviously they're

1485
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 17: depositing more money every year, which is excellent, But the

1486
01:19:07,080 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 17: other half of that is coming from the market. And

1487
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:12,720
Speaker 17: over the eleven last eleven years, the all share has

1488
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:15,680
Speaker 17: not returned a compounded return of fifteen percent.

1489
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:16,000
Speaker 3: Year on year.

1490
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 17: So in aggregate, as an average, our customers are outperforming

1491
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:23,880
Speaker 17: the market. That that the home market they live in,

1492
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:27,720
Speaker 17: and they pitching up with more capital every single year

1493
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 17: and growing their portfolios in total by thirty percent yre

1494
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 17: on yea.

1495
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 3: And that for me is I could never have predicted that.

1496
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:39,760
Speaker 17: That's the observed intelligence and the advice I would give

1497
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:43,160
Speaker 17: to any asset manager, any advisor out there, or anybody

1498
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 17: in financial services is trust.

1499
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:50,320
Speaker 3: Your clients to be smarter than you, and they'll pitch

1500
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 3: up and show you how smart they are.

1501
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 2: Sure chance, I'm so glad I asked the question that

1502
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 2: it's so interesting. I mean, this is the debate they

1503
01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 2: could go on forever. I'm supposed to at this point

1504
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:01,639
Speaker 2: in the co station ask what do you do for fun?

1505
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:03,560
Speaker 2: And I don't know if training is part of it.

1506
01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 2: And I also have to tell you that that because

1507
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 2: everybody gives the same answer. I go jogging and spend

1508
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:10,000
Speaker 2: time with my family. It can't be one of those

1509
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:12,639
Speaker 2: two things. Are there things that you do to kind

1510
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 2: of relax? Are their places you like to go to?

1511
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 2: Are they supports you like to watch or things you

1512
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:17,800
Speaker 2: like to bry?

1513
01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:23,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm mad about Mozambique. It connects me back to

1514
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:23,519
Speaker 3: the ocean.

1515
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 17: It's a place I can dive and surf and fish

1516
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:29,639
Speaker 17: and spend time with my family all in one place.

1517
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:33,920
Speaker 17: And so any opportunity I get is to go to

1518
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:38,719
Speaker 17: is Mozambique, surf, dive, fish, family, And I'd add just travel.

1519
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:44,640
Speaker 17: I think the life's luxury is travel and experiences that

1520
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 17: come from travel.

1521
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 2: Sure, Charles, I've really enjoyed talking to you. I find

1522
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 2: it really educational. Thank you so much. Charles Savage is

1523
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,080
Speaker 2: the CEO at the Purple Group and Easy Equities is

1524
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:56,160
Speaker 2: the way that you'll know him.

1525
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1526
01:20:57,280 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 2: Interesting to just hear his passion and to hear how

1527
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,680
Speaker 2: in fact he is so still invested to use the

1528
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 2: phrase in what he's doing. Really interesting, Charles Savage, Thank

1529
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 2: you so much.

1530
01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:13,840
Speaker 12: The Money Show Stephen Kluetez is brought to you by

1531
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 12: Apser Islamic Business Bank celebrating twenty years of banking.

1532
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 2: Rooted in values.

1533
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:20,840
Speaker 3: APPS is a registered FSP.

1534
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:26,280
Speaker 2: Well, US market's still really trying to work out what

1535
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 2: on earth is going on in Iran, aren't we all?

1536
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:31,160
Speaker 2: But markets at the moment that our jones up point

1537
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 2: nine to three percent, the NASTACAP one point zh six

1538
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 2: and the S and P five hundred zero point eighty one.

1539
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 2: So yeah, waiting to see what's happening. Lots of conversations

1540
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 2: everywhere about what's going to happen with electric vehicles as well.

1541
01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:46,800
Speaker 2: You heard that conversation with the Charge group earlier, and

1542
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 2: so yeah, interesting to see how that is going to

1543
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 2: play out. I do think there'll be a move, but

1544
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 2: only from people who are already replaced in cars. I

1545
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:55,760
Speaker 2: don't know if people are going to give up the

1546
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 2: car they have and go and get a new one

1547
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:01,840
Speaker 2: simply because the cost is still very, very expensive. We'll

1548
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:03,479
Speaker 2: be back with you tomorrow, good evening. It's a