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Speaker 1: To the dialogue with Clement, man tailor, It's not just

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Speaker 1: another roundtable discussion. Let's walk the talk on seven o two.

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Speaker 1: It's twenty two minutes now before twelve o clock. There

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Speaker 1: are a number of messages that have come through, come

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Speaker 1: on the what's up line before we get into our

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Speaker 1: next conversation. I just want to reflect on that. Someone says, Hi, Clement,

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Speaker 1: accountability should never at any point be questioned. We give

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Speaker 1: authority to those that we put in power to appoint

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Speaker 1: appropriate individuals to serve us, and not them on our behalf,

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Speaker 1: we are well within our rights to question they appropriate

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Speaker 1: or their pointer to account on the actions of the appointee.

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Speaker 1: There also what's up messages, what's up voice notes that

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Speaker 1: have come through as well, responding to that conversation with

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Speaker 1: de beaujo Has. They've come on oh seven to seven

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Speaker 1: o two and seven oh two.

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Speaker 2: In the team they will suggested that a General similar

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Speaker 2: delegated someone who reported back to him and say that

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Speaker 2: there was nothing wrong. So why did General my similar

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Speaker 2: deed to someone who mislaid him?

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Speaker 1: HM, David exactly, David exactly? Did he take action against

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Speaker 1: that person? The point I was trying to make to

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Speaker 1: dobojojas is. We don't know the case that either has

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Speaker 1: against the National Police Commissioner. My goodness. I'm sure a

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Speaker 1: lot of you, just like myself, are hoping that there

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Speaker 1: is no strong case. Because if there's a suggestion that

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Speaker 1: there was gross negligence or any suggestion that the National

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner failed to act so that or delayed to

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Speaker 1: act so that money goes to keat Matala's company, that's

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Speaker 1: going to be devastating for all of us because that

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Speaker 1: would mean the very head of the SAPs was somehow

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Speaker 1: involved in advancing Kate Macala through this tender that he

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Speaker 1: received from the SAPs. I hope that is not the case.

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Speaker 1: I really do, but we just don't know. So for

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Speaker 1: us to have organizations that come up already defending the

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Speaker 1: National Police Commissioner in saying no, but he did this this,

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Speaker 1: he can argue that in court. And if the IDAC

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a strong case against him, and they just

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Speaker 1: enrolled the matter with no interest whatsoever and they couldn't

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Speaker 1: prove beyond reasonable doubt, there's prospects of success. IDAC must

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Speaker 1: be held accountable, my goodness, the head of IDAC, even

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Speaker 1: if she gets fired because you can't play politics as

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Speaker 1: a law enforcement agency where you just charge people because

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Speaker 1: you're fighting a certain faction or because you're trying to

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Speaker 1: create an impression that that person may be corrupt. But

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Speaker 1: right now you and I don't know. What we know

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Speaker 1: for sure is there is rot in the SAPs. And

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Speaker 1: it does it just go down, it also goes up

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Speaker 1: the seniority levels. The top cops of the SAPs have

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Speaker 1: been shown to be corrupt and in cahoots with kat

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Speaker 1: Magala and his associates. And as a result, I'm happy

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Speaker 1: for us to have a National Police Commissioner's going to

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Speaker 1: go to court an answer, and maybe he'll be able

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Speaker 1: to defend himself and say this is what I did.

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Speaker 1: But it's important that we allow that process to run

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Speaker 1: its course and not just come in defending or blaming

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Speaker 1: IIDAC when we don't actually know how strong their case

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Speaker 1: is against the National Police Commissioner. It's nineteen minutes now

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Speaker 1: before twelve o'clock the dialogue with Clement. It's not just

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Speaker 1: another roundtable discussion.

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Speaker 3: Let's walk the talk on saven O two.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we are going to bring in Darlin James now,

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Speaker 1: who is a Member of Parliament, for action essays, and

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Speaker 1: this is to get a response from following that conversation

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Speaker 1: we had with the ANC Women's League Secretary General. Remember,

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Speaker 1: if you've just joined us, you missed what we spoke

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Speaker 1: about earlier. The Minister of Social Development Sisissi do Lache

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Speaker 1: basically lied to Parliament. Darreline James is the person who

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Speaker 1: asked her about the two vehicles that he had received. Right,

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Speaker 1: these are two vehicles he had received from Chinese officials.

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Speaker 1: She responded and said, no, those vehicles were a donation

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Speaker 1: to the ANC Women's League. This morning we contacted the

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Speaker 1: ANC Women's League Secretary General. We interviewed her. I'll replay

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Speaker 1: that interview for you, and she confirmed that it's not true.

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Speaker 1: She said, we have no records of those vehicles. We've

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Speaker 1: never had any donations from a Chinese officials. The Daily

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Speaker 1: Maverick has revealed that those two vehicles that the minister received,

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Speaker 1: she gave them to her two children. Had two children

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Speaker 1: have been using those cars. In fact, the ownership of

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Speaker 1: the vehicles changed to be in the names of her

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Speaker 1: two children. So I thought let's bring in Darline James

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Speaker 1: as someone who had asked this question first. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much, for making time for us. Darrelyne, good morning.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, klemen, and thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's start with why you decided to ask

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Speaker 1: the Minister of Social Development about these two vehicles? What

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Speaker 1: information did you have?

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Speaker 3: Levin First, I want to say, you know, I've always

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Speaker 3: said this when we ask questions, it's not because we

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Speaker 3: don't know the answers, it's just the fact that we

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Speaker 3: want to. At this point, we have quite a few

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Speaker 3: whistleblowers in the department highlighting various issues to us, which

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Speaker 3: I'm extremely grateful for that people are no longer covering

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Speaker 3: up for their seniors. And you know what you said

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Speaker 3: that the minister answered, let's get it Rightdmber Last year,

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Speaker 3: when we posed this question to her, she actually just

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Speaker 3: ignored us. She failed to respond to us. We then

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Speaker 3: again asked the question. I think it was in February,

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Speaker 3: and it is then when she had cooked up the

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Speaker 3: story of you know it was a donation to the ANC.

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Speaker 3: I'm so grateful that Daily Maverick has gone the extra

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Speaker 3: mile to actually expose this units actually saying we have

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Speaker 3: been so busy with the ADA Committee and everything else,

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Speaker 3: but it was just basically a matter of time for

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Speaker 3: us to get back to this issue and to expose

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Speaker 3: over and above these vehicles the rock that is happening

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Speaker 3: in that department. So this is another department that we

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Speaker 3: South Africans are going to be quite saddened by the

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Speaker 3: reality of what is happening in day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So what is the next step then, Darlin, Because

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Speaker 1: if she told you in her response that well, this

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Speaker 1: was a donation to the ANC Women's League, the ANC

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Speaker 1: Women's League Secretary General today denied that and said we

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Speaker 1: don't have any records of that. They're now going to

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Speaker 1: investigate her and these vehicles that she has claimed belonged

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Speaker 1: to the ANC Women's League. So that would mean that

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Speaker 1: she lied then in her response, what happens next?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and let doesn't take it further. It wasn't even declared.

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Speaker 3: You know, she knows that as a minister she's supposed

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Speaker 3: to declare any gifts. And I think the question what

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Speaker 3: worries me right now? In exchange for what was these gifts?

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Speaker 3: What did she promise the Chinese officials. That's what I'm

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Speaker 3: asking myself, you know, what was what was the exchange? Secondly, also,

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Speaker 3: if it was a gift to the I for the

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Speaker 3: ANC a donation. Why wasn't it also declared so that

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Speaker 3: as well. So not only is the ANC saying that

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Speaker 3: they have no knowledge drap it. No way can we

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Speaker 3: find that she's actually declared these items well over a

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Speaker 3: million rands. I'm asking myself why not? Now we have

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Speaker 3: written to the president this morning and we've released a

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Speaker 3: statement saying this is now you don't even have to

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Speaker 3: investigate anything, because I'm glad that you were claiming to

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Speaker 3: even have. It's in the form of an interview this

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Speaker 3: morning where they say we have no idea what this

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Speaker 3: woman is talking about. What will it take now for

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Speaker 3: the president to fire the minister? Because this is clear cut,

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Speaker 3: this is as clear, this is blatant. You need to

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Speaker 3: fire this person or will you just come up and

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Speaker 3: cook a story for South Africa. That's That's what I'm

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Speaker 3: waiting to see.

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Speaker 1: Now, Well, what has history taught us and told us

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Speaker 1: about how the president delays in acting? I suppose we

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Speaker 1: wait and see Darline James. Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 1: She's a member of Parliament for Action SA. They have

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Speaker 1: now returned to Presidentmaposa to say, yo, look at your

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Speaker 1: member of cabinet and what they've done what are you

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Speaker 1: going to do about it? What is the president going

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Speaker 1: to do about his own minister who seemingly has lied

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Speaker 1: to Parliament. She receives two luxury vehicles from Chinese officials,

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Speaker 1: which she didn't declare. She tells Parliament, Oh, no, these

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Speaker 1: I didn't declare them because they were a donation to

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Speaker 1: the ANC Women's League, because she's a president of the

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Speaker 1: ANC Women's League. Daily Maverick reveals she gave the vehicles

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Speaker 1: to her two kids. They went and tracked the vehicles.

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Speaker 1: Those vehicles have been used by her children and then

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Speaker 1: the ANC Women's League when we interview them this morning,

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Speaker 1: tell us we have no record of those vehicles. We've

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Speaker 1: never had donations from Chinese officials. Is the President going

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Speaker 1: to act or is he going to wait until there's

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Speaker 1: more outrage, more opinion pieces, more investigations and and before

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Speaker 1: he acts