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Speaker 1: I was going to say, I confess, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure that confession is the right word. I acknowledge that

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Speaker 1: it's quite a while since I paid any serious attention

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Speaker 1: to the ongoings at the Mudlunga Commission of Inquiry, although

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Speaker 1: I did stay following that longer than I stayed the

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Speaker 1: ridiculousness that is the ad hoc Committee in Parliament with

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Speaker 1: all of that political posturing. But as I was leaving

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Speaker 1: the country, I read the news that suspended organized crime

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Speaker 1: officer Funny and Corsi had been arrested, his home had

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Speaker 1: been raided, and he has now subsequently made a court appearance.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sort of scratching my head, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: many of you as well will not have much of

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Speaker 1: an idea of what Funny and Corsey is alleged to

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Speaker 1: have done and how central he has been to the

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Speaker 1: Spider's web of conruct corruption which is being sort of

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Speaker 1: picked a part at the Blunger Commission of Inquiry. Karen Moran,

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Speaker 1: of course knows all of this stuff backwards, but I

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Speaker 1: ask her to tell it forwards rather than backwards. A

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Speaker 1: legal journalist with News twenty four, Hello.

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Speaker 2: Karen, thank you for that lovely introduction and it's great

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Speaker 2: to speak to you again.

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Speaker 1: Before we get on too funny and Coursey, just what

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Speaker 1: did the judge Madlanga mean when he said, I think

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Speaker 1: it was today that when it comes to tenders, what

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Speaker 1: the Constitution says about tendering and tenders has been turned

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Speaker 1: against South Africans.

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Speaker 2: Well. Essentially what he was saying was talking about Section

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Speaker 2: two one seven of the Constitution which essentially says government

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Speaker 2: can only procure must procure services or you know, whatever

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Speaker 2: they need to procure through a process that is fair, equitable,

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Speaker 2: competitive and takes it, you know, takes into mind policies

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Speaker 2: that you know, address the previous historical disadvantages of the past.

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Speaker 2: And essentially what what that did that section of the

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Speaker 2: Constitution was to create the tender process which we know now.

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Speaker 2: And essentially what he was doing he was commenting on

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Speaker 2: the issues in the twenty Metro Police where you know

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Speaker 2: Fani and COURSEI was such a privotal witness to this

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Speaker 2: because his WhatsApps have shown obvious evidence of tender rigging

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Speaker 2: and tender manipulation which has yet to form the basis

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Speaker 2: of any prosecution. But what he was saying was essentially

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Speaker 2: this thing that was supposed to be something that would

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Speaker 2: enable us to get services full government in a fair, equitable,

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Speaker 2: cost effective. That was also one of the things that

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Speaker 2: the constitution, you know, demand has actually resulted in undermining

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Speaker 2: the South African public because you know, we know that

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Speaker 2: beyond just what's been uncovered in the Midlanga Commission, where

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Speaker 2: multiple tenders are at play, including the three hundred and

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Speaker 2: sixty million round Police Health Services tender that Kat mcclalan

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Speaker 2: and many other police officers including Fan Masamola are facing

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Speaker 2: charges over. You know, these tenders like they infiltrate all

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Speaker 2: aspects of life and all aspects of service provision. And unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: as we know, not just from this inquiry, but the

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Speaker 2: State Capture inquiry, with this best ass et cetera, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: they are have become a site of ren seeking, looting

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Speaker 2: and sort of favoritism towards politically connected business people.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for that now, Funny Masamola, I'm not Funny

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Speaker 1: Masimola is another allegedly crooked police officer, just a considerably

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Speaker 1: more senior one, Funny and Corsey. It appears that he

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Speaker 1: might have been central in a way that you don't expect.

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Speaker 1: A relatively low ranking police officer to be well.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that I found fascinating in his evidence.

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Speaker 2: And you know, it's such a remarkable thing because when

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Speaker 2: he first appeared before the commission, you'll remember, he wanted

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Speaker 2: to appear in secret. He didn't want to actually answer questions.

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Speaker 2: He was then worn that he faced potential criminal charges

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Speaker 2: if he didn't answer honestly. And then of course the

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Speaker 2: floodgates opened, and largely spurred by his own WhatsApp messages,

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Speaker 2: which despite the fact that you know, his home was

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Speaker 2: raided several months after Planton Quanazi's bombshell press conference, he

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Speaker 2: had not wiped from his phone, and you know, they

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Speaker 2: exposed him as being someone who was essentially a lynch

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Speaker 2: pin between these top crops like Shadrack Saba, Robert Saberi

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Speaker 2: and possibly others. And then you know, alleged members of

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Speaker 2: the Big five crotel, including including kat Mattwala, you know,

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Speaker 2: uh and and and Jotham Jotham and Swazim Phoebe and

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Speaker 2: others and and uh you know Katie Molefe. And you know,

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Speaker 2: of course, he is so fascinating because he reveals during

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Speaker 2: his testimony that he was actually brought up by him

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Speaker 2: Phoebe that he was someone who you know, went to

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Speaker 2: him as a child and stayed in his own own

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Speaker 2: until graded eleven, and described all of these sort of

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Speaker 2: alleged underworld figures as being you know, father figures to him.

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Speaker 2: And I think within the ambit of the evidence, one

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Speaker 2: would be very circumspect or at least partially grounded in

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Speaker 2: the suspicion that part of that perhaps there was an

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Speaker 2: impetus to deliberately place him in the police service because

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Speaker 2: he proved to be such an effective conduit of information

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Speaker 2: and favors to these alleged underworld figures.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how close are we to do you think wrapping

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Speaker 1: up the questioning, the appearance of witnesses, new witnesses, re

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Speaker 1: examination and so on. Because we have an interim report,

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Speaker 1: we have I think some idea what was in it,

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Speaker 1: but we haven't had sight of it, at least that

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Speaker 1: the public hasn't had official sight of it. How close

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Speaker 1: are we to think, I mean, is it literally months

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Speaker 1: away before judgement? Langa and his fellow commissioners say here,

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Speaker 1: this is what we understand from what we have heard.

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Speaker 2: Well, they have to produce their report by the sady

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Speaker 2: first of August. Now, when do they stop their their

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Speaker 2: hearings and their questioning of witnesses and begin working on

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Speaker 2: that report full time. Are they already working on that report?

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Speaker 2: We do not know, but it is apparent that, you know,

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Speaker 2: unlike in the context of the SEC Capture inquiry, where

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Speaker 2: that was a three four year process that you know,

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Speaker 2: those prosecutions have yet to sort of get off the

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Speaker 2: ground because largely of applications brought by the accused. They

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Speaker 2: are ongoing arrests, prosecutions proceeding in tind of in parallel

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Speaker 2: with the inquiry. And that's what's so fascinating to me.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a real, like there's a real impetus

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Speaker 2: with this Midlanga Commission that hasn't existed with prior commissions

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Speaker 2: of inquiry, because I think that there's a level of

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Speaker 2: exhaustion for on the South African public of just having

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Speaker 2: you know, the canters rought within the body politic explode

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Speaker 2: posed in an inquiry process and then essentially having that

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Speaker 2: body sewn up and getting told to sort of walk

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Speaker 2: around like everything's normal. And the South African public, I

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Speaker 2: think this particular moment of our political history where we

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Speaker 2: have a g and U government where our political certainty

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Speaker 2: and the parties in control don't seem to be as

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Speaker 2: sure anymore. I think there's a real sense that the

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Speaker 2: South African public will not accept a lack of action

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Speaker 2: when it comes to such brazen evidence of corruption and

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Speaker 2: malfeasans that has been exposed in this commission.

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Speaker 1: You also, Karen covered the Zander Commission of Inquiry, and

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Speaker 1: and I don't want you to. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: ask you to compare the two because I mean they

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Speaker 1: are essentially that they parts that they are. How would

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Speaker 1: one describe it? They're different parts of the same cancer

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Speaker 1: about But I don't know if for me, because this

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Speaker 1: involves people who are supposed to be keeping us safe

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Speaker 1: SAPs crime intelligence, and they're quite obviously of not. What

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Speaker 1: they've been trying to do is make themselves and their

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Speaker 1: friends rich. But then at the same time, I suppose

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Speaker 1: you could say that the Zonder Commissioner of the Inquiry

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Speaker 1: was about people who are supposed to be delivering services

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Speaker 1: to citizens to make citizens' lives better, and they too

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Speaker 1: reneged on that commitment. So yeah, two sides of the

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Speaker 1: same coin. I suppose both of them.

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Speaker 2: Very ugly and one going to argue, I would say

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Speaker 2: that the reason why there were in prosecutions flowing as

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Speaker 2: readily from the State Capture inquiry was because you know,

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Speaker 2: they implicated the very same individuals or the very same

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Speaker 2: cohort politically connected business people who you know, maybe I

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Speaker 2: had a deliberate hand in circumventing those investigations. That is

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Speaker 2: just one am bit of suspicion that we, you know,

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Speaker 2: South Africans would be entitled in pursuing because given the

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Speaker 2: nature of the evidence that has emerged. But when was

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Speaker 2: also remember that Zornda was essentially snow blinded with terms

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Speaker 2: of reference by Jacob Zumer, where he was essentially saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, investigate every act of corruption that's ever happened

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Speaker 2: in my administration. Ever, this Commission of Inquiry is extremely narrow.

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Speaker 2: It's focused on in plantline for Nazi's allegations of criminal malfeasans.

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Speaker 2: Much of it is built around the exemplary investigative journalist

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Speaker 2: journalism that was done you know, primarily by my own

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Speaker 2: colleague Jeff Wex and others, but very much Jeff Wex,

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Speaker 2: and you know, this commission has utilized state captured inquiry evidence.

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Speaker 2: Leaders like Matthew Chaskisson and Mashlapecelo, who has rich experience

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Speaker 2: in that preceding and commission in terms of how you

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Speaker 2: get the evidence, how you obtain the information that you

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Speaker 2: need to and they have just run with it in

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Speaker 2: a way that I think was built on the back

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Speaker 2: of what the State Capturing Inquiry would had done. And

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Speaker 2: we mus also remember that the State Capturing in quiry

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Speaker 2: did recover fourteen billion rand of taxpayers money that was

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Speaker 2: loosed from the state, so you know, that's always something

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Speaker 2: important to remember when it comes to this. But ultimately,

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Speaker 2: South Africa is a constitutional democracy where the average South

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Speaker 2: African very much feels that their basic right human right

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Speaker 2: to safety has been compromised by the criminality that has

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Speaker 2: been allowed to thrive. And the jaw dropping realization that

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Speaker 2: top levels of the's top individuals within the police may

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Speaker 2: have been complicit in that criminality is something that demands action,

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Speaker 2: and South Africans will show politically and in terms of

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Speaker 2: you know, their own ability to vocalize and demonstrate their

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Speaker 2: dissatisfaction that they do not accept it if government at

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Speaker 2: this point fails to do something about that, Thanks very much.

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Speaker 1: The News twenty four is Karen Morn,