Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven
Speaker 1: oh two.
Speaker 2: Let's walk lit all.
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Crutis is brought to you
Speaker 3: by ABS, A Corporate and Investment Bank, proud sponsor of
Speaker 3: the African Blockchain Report twenty twenty four. Good evening, Welcome
Speaker 3: to the program. I'm Stephen Crutis, breaking news as we
Speaker 3: go to air tonight. You heard in the E w
Speaker 3: N bulletin Noboch and Cabane gone as Higher Education Minister.
Speaker 3: This is one of those presidency statements that you need
Speaker 3: to decode. You don't see the word fired, you don't
Speaker 3: see the word sacked, you don't even see relieved of
Speaker 3: her duties. All you see is the President in terms
Speaker 3: of da da da da da da da da da,
Speaker 3: appointing Buddy Manamela the Minister of Higher Education and Training.
Speaker 3: He was, of course the deputy minister, has been the
Speaker 3: Deputy Minister there for many many years. And then a
Speaker 3: new paragraph appointing doctor Mussa Dubeng MuBe the Deputy Minister
Speaker 3: of Higher Education and Training. No mention of what's happened
Speaker 3: to Nobole and Cabane, but the context of this is
Speaker 3: absolutely everything too. What things would you to happen in
Speaker 3: really the next forty eight hours. In my view, one
Speaker 3: was more important than the over. But the first chronologically
Speaker 3: was that she was due to appear in Parliament tomorrow.
Speaker 3: She's been accused of lying to parliament. The second was
Speaker 3: that on Wednesday, I think it was, she was due
Speaker 3: to be the subject of a vote in Parliament in
Speaker 3: the National Assembly about whether or not the Democratic Alliance
Speaker 3: would support the vote for her budget, the budget for
Speaker 3: the Department of Higher Education. The DA had said that
Speaker 3: they would vote against it. As I understand the technicalities
Speaker 3: on this, if they had voted against it, that would
Speaker 3: mean that the entire budget falls away. Now you can
Speaker 3: just imagine the politics of all of this. The President
Speaker 3: surely did not want to be seen to be giving
Speaker 3: into the DA. The DA would say to its constituency,
Speaker 3: we can't and good conscience vote for a person who
Speaker 3: we believed to be corrupt and has lied to Parliament.
Speaker 3: And the A and C would probably say, well, the
Speaker 3: DA of the people who are imperiling putting in danger
Speaker 3: the entire budget. And I'm probably way of a simplifying
Speaker 3: it when I put it in those terms. Now, that
Speaker 3: particular stumbling block has gone. It may not be the
Speaker 3: only one, but I would imagine now probably gets a
Speaker 3: lot tougher for the DA to say to anyone we're
Speaker 3: not voting in favor of the budget. That's where they
Speaker 3: might just look as if they're not on quite the
Speaker 3: same strength of ground. Well, I'll be very interested in
Speaker 3: your view on this this evening. I mean, maybe the
Speaker 3: former minister is going to say that she resigned, that
Speaker 3: maybe she found her conscience, or maybe she did nothing
Speaker 3: wrong but just decided for the good of the party,
Speaker 3: or was asked or something. Who knows, Maybe there's another explanation,
Speaker 3: But for the moment, it would seem that she was
Speaker 3: asked to go and she's gone. I can't see any
Speaker 3: other way of seeing it at the moment. They will,
Speaker 3: of course be lots of conversation around all of this,
Speaker 3: but the real risk was that one vote by the
Speaker 3: DA against the budget could sink the entire budget, and
Speaker 3: who knows what would happen after that. That's when things
Speaker 3: would start to get very very difficult. Well, we'll get
Speaker 3: some analysis on this breaking news for you on the
Speaker 3: Money Show this evening we talk about the situation at
Speaker 3: fly Safe. We'll speak would you to speak to the
Speaker 3: CEO at Prime Capital as well, Martin Slubbart not the
Speaker 3: person who's been reading news for you. Another Martin Slubbetts
Speaker 3: tonight about the mass issue and it's a fascinating, fascinating issue.
Speaker 3: Also of course this evening how to make money out
Speaker 3: of mess looking forward to that conversation from seven thirty
Speaker 3: and Bali and Clappol the housekeeping and cleaning influencer. If
Speaker 3: you ever had stains that you're battling to get out of,
Speaker 3: well that is the person to speak to. You'll hear
Speaker 3: from her from seven thirty. Good to hear from you
Speaker 3: this evening. You might well have a view on what's
Speaker 3: happened to the former higher education and so on. O
Speaker 3: double one, double A three oh seven oh two two
Speaker 3: one four four six oh five six seven and Voice
Speaker 3: Notes tonight on seven two seven oh two one seven
Speaker 3: oh two.
Speaker 1: The Lonely Show with Stephen krutis live on ninety two
Speaker 1: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime
Speaker 1: Media Plus.
Speaker 2: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know if your day has yet been
Speaker 3: affected by the fly Safe strike. Maybe someone you know
Speaker 3: was traveling, maybe a meeting was canceled. Maybe you drove
Speaker 3: a long distance to be at a meeting that was canceled,
Speaker 3: So flight's already canceled. Two hundred of fly Safair's three
Speaker 3: hundred pilots seem to have joined the pilot strike. The
Speaker 3: union that represents the pilot's solidarity. They say they'll be
Speaker 3: on strike for two weeks. There's a dispute about wages.
Speaker 3: We've had plenty of those. But there's also a dispute
Speaker 3: about the roster system that fly Safe is using. Guy
Speaker 3: Leach as the editor at SA Flyer magazine Experts who
Speaker 3: commentates on all of this, Guy, Good evening. Strikes like
Speaker 3: this are quite rare in iro environment. Can fly Safe
Speaker 3: raally survive a strike like this for much longer? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Hi, Stephen, Well, that's a very interesting question because I
Speaker 4: suspect that they already made a decision as to how
Speaker 4: much they're prepared to spend on the strikers. It were,
Speaker 4: how much it's going to cost them, teted it into
Speaker 4: the long term benefits of trying to keep pilot salaries
Speaker 4: and benefits low and set a target, and you know,
Speaker 4: they were already indicated that they're quite prepared to play
Speaker 4: it out. They were the ones who created the seven
Speaker 4: day lockout in management. It was probably a slightly spiteful
Speaker 4: response for a SORTID area to go within a for
Speaker 4: fourteen days strike. But I think that this thing's going
Speaker 4: to protract. The real issue is can they really keep
Speaker 4: the schedule together for longer than seven days?
Speaker 3: I mean, that's surely when things start to fall apast.
Speaker 3: And I can understand the argument about salaries, both points,
Speaker 3: both sides will make important points. What I don't get
Speaker 3: is the argument about rosters. Pilots say they're not getting
Speaker 3: enough time at home. That's a big problem in this industry.
Speaker 3: Fly Safe say they use the same rostering system as
Speaker 3: other airlines. What's the real.
Speaker 4: Problem here, Yeah, it's quite nuanced this argument. The point
Speaker 4: was that they had a simple roster system of a
Speaker 4: fixed roster system when they were a smaller airline, and
Speaker 4: then they grew very rapidly post COVID, and the roster
Speaker 4: system just clearly wasn't keeping up, so that purchased a
Speaker 4: proprietary off the shelf system. The accusation that I've heard
Speaker 4: is that they purchased a sort of the B model
Speaker 4: of this version. And if it's going to work, it's
Speaker 4: got to have very rigid rules which they haven't yet
Speaker 4: negotiated or got in place. So if it's just too
Speaker 4: much flexibility for an open system, then there's crises at
Speaker 4: the last minutes. And pilots have been a feel that
Speaker 4: they've been properly messed around. In other words, they've booked
Speaker 4: time off for a holiday months in advance, and then
Speaker 4: all of a sudden they've been called out. So there's
Speaker 4: obviously a lot of dissatisfaction, a lot of ill feeling
Speaker 4: about that.
Speaker 3: And then the salaries argument, I mean, our pilots can
Speaker 3: work in other countries with dollar salaries. They may not
Speaker 3: want to, they might prefer it. Yeah, I presume they do.
Speaker 3: Are there other benefits pilots get here to compensate. I mean,
Speaker 3: I can't imagine fly sapfare being able to sort of,
Speaker 3: you know, compete with a dollar salary in any way.
Speaker 5: It can't.
Speaker 4: I mean, so African salaries have been significantly falling behind
Speaker 4: the world average. And a reality too is that internationally
Speaker 4: there's a massive world perorldwide pilot shortage. So the four
Speaker 4: Eastern countries, particularly the China airlines, are offering as much
Speaker 4: as four times more in terms of package, and most
Speaker 4: of it is tax free. That's extremely hard to compete against.
Speaker 4: So all the airlines can do is hope that the
Speaker 4: lifestyle benefits and the defected mini pilots of children at
Speaker 4: schools and mortgages and so on is going to keep
Speaker 4: them there. But it's an ongoing problem. Fly Safe is
Speaker 4: losing for at least probably five to ten percent of
Speaker 4: it of its workforce every year, not just to retirement
Speaker 4: but obviously to international.
Speaker 3: Approachain Guy Leitch, thanks very much. Indeed see the editor
Speaker 3: at fly Saffare two.
Speaker 2: Stephen gone X at at Stephen.
Speaker 3: Say Fly Magazine, not fly Saffare. Fly Saffe, of course,
Speaker 3: is the airline. Will let's continue, shall we? A war
Speaker 3: of words breaking out today between High Proper Investments in
Speaker 3: Prime Capital. They both want to take over control of
Speaker 3: Mass real Estate. Mass real Estate controls shopping moors in
Speaker 3: Eastern Europe. On Friday, High Proper announcement open offer to shareholders.
Speaker 3: Prime Capital owns a sixty percent stake in those developments
Speaker 3: they which are in Prime Capital Developments. Prime Capital Developments
Speaker 3: owns forty percent of Mass. In other words, Prime Capital
Speaker 3: is a big part of the owner share or the
Speaker 3: share ownership of MASS. Meanwhile, other shareholders, who own around
Speaker 3: fifteen percent of MASS, say they want changes to the board.
Speaker 3: They believe two of the current directors are not properly independent.
Speaker 3: They seem to be backed by the Public Investment Corporation,
Speaker 3: which owns fourteen percent of MASS. Martin Slubbert is the
Speaker 3: CEO at Prime Capital. Martin, Good Evening, you've slammed this
Speaker 3: offer from High Propit does give a current MASS shareholder
Speaker 3: certain options. Why what do you believe is wrong with
Speaker 3: this offer?
Speaker 6: Good Evening can hearing?
Speaker 3: Yes we can, Martin Slubbert, thank you for your time.
Speaker 3: You've slammed the offer from High prop What do you
Speaker 3: believe is wrong with it?
Speaker 7: Well, we don't like fighting with people, but unfortunately the
Speaker 7: situation is such that we had to reach to out
Speaker 7: of smallest share which are difficult to reach, and consequently
Speaker 7: we decided to do some media interviews, which is not
Speaker 7: something you usually do. There are basically two issues with
Speaker 7: High Props offer. The first is that it is not
Speaker 7: really an offer in the ordinary sense. It is an
Speaker 7: option disguised is an offer, and I'll impact that first.
Speaker 7: And then the second is that there's a bit of
Speaker 7: cloaks or smoke and marriage around the pricing. And we
Speaker 7: think it's important for shelders to understand this as the
Speaker 7: offer document is complex and you have to be a
Speaker 7: lawyer really to follow what's being offered to shoulders. So
Speaker 7: let me get to the first point, which is that
Speaker 7: the offer is really a request from shelders to grant
Speaker 7: high props with options, as opposed to making an offer
Speaker 7: to acquire their shares. The reason for this is the following.
Speaker 7: The usual market practice with making offers are that the
Speaker 7: office will remain open for acceptance after they become unconditional.
Speaker 7: It's not unusual to make an offer with conditions attached,
Speaker 7: but it's very unusual or to make an offer that's
Speaker 7: open only for five days, as is the case here.
Speaker 7: Saying to show this that you have to accept our
Speaker 7: offer by Friday this week. But by Friday this week,
Speaker 7: our offer will remain conditional, and many of those conditions
Speaker 7: are in our control, and we can't tell you by
Speaker 7: when we're fulfilling those those conditions might might not be fulfilled.
Speaker 7: The consequence, which is that once you accept our offer,
Speaker 7: you give us the right, but not the obligation, to
Speaker 7: acquire your shares someday in the future. It may be
Speaker 7: in one month, it may be in three months, it
Speaker 7: may be in four times months, it may not be
Speaker 7: at all. As a result, if a shoulder accepts such
Speaker 7: an offer, they will not be able to trade the
Speaker 7: issues in the market unless High Proper releases them from
Speaker 7: the commitment they made, nor will they be able to
Speaker 7: accept anybody else's offer. This is in contravention. Not only
Speaker 7: is it not market practice, is also in contravention with
Speaker 7: the JAYS rules, and we think it also doesn't meet
Speaker 7: the requirements under mass's Articles of association. The JC has
Speaker 7: a rule that's applicable to all companies which have their
Speaker 7: primary listing in South Africa for offers that are made
Speaker 7: for takeover purposes to remain open for twelve days after
Speaker 7: they became unconditional. So this is the first issue, and
Speaker 7: this is why we're saying it really is not an
Speaker 7: offer but get disguised option contract.
Speaker 3: Just on that Martin, very quickly, you say it breaks
Speaker 3: JASE regulations. As I understand that MASS is registered in Malta,
Speaker 3: the primary listing is on the JAC so jas regulations
Speaker 3: will apply both to High prop and I presume to
Speaker 3: anyone else trading in the shares, which would include you,
Speaker 3: which would include Prime Capital. Correct. Okay, then the other issue,
Speaker 3: and we don't want to get too bugged down in technicalities.
Speaker 3: I understand that they're important, but we've seen some of
Speaker 3: the other shareholders ninety one momentum others. I think the
Speaker 3: pic too. They seem to believe that two of the
Speaker 3: directors of MAZ, as they sort of describe it, are
Speaker 3: too close to you, mahel Vasi Lestru and Dan Pascario.
Speaker 3: Are these two people working for you or supporting you
Speaker 3: in some way? Are they really independent directors of MAS?
Speaker 6: Yes, Stephens, thank you.
Speaker 7: So the first, it's important to understand that we're not
Speaker 7: the controlling shoulder of MASS. We are mi ninety shoulder
Speaker 7: like any of the other shoulders. So we don't appoint
Speaker 7: directors to MAS. The directors of MASS are appointed by
Speaker 7: the board and those are pointers are approved by shilders
Speaker 7: and annual meetings, so and they regularly come up for
Speaker 7: re election. So I think that's the first point that
Speaker 7: I think is important to make. The second is not independent.
Speaker 7: He's one of the shoulders and a partner in Prime couple.
Speaker 7: That's well known. It's not unusual for a shoulder with
Speaker 7: a large shohelding to have a director on the board.
Speaker 7: But that doesn't mean that Meyhal participates in decision making
Speaker 7: around the DJV or around Prime Capital. MASSES board directors
Speaker 7: would exclude me out from any decision making when it
Speaker 7: comes to Prime Capital the DJV, So I don't think
Speaker 7: there's an issue there. Down Pass career has no relation
Speaker 7: with Prime Capital. Is not employed by us, He doesn't
Speaker 7: work for us. We don't move in the same social
Speaker 7: social circles. He has no investment interest in Prime Capital.
Speaker 7: So the only link possibly that one could think about
Speaker 7: when it comes to down Past career and me is
Speaker 7: that Done used to be the chairman of NEPI many
Speaker 7: many years ago, and I used.
Speaker 6: To be the CEO of NEPI many many years ago.
Speaker 7: But other than that, you know, I haven't known Done
Speaker 7: in any other capacity as as far as that's concenter.
Speaker 7: So Done is an independent director of MASS, and the
Speaker 7: majority of mass's directors are independent from Prime Capital, and
Speaker 7: so we don't interfere, and we don't have the ability
Speaker 7: in fact to interfere in decision making of MASS as
Speaker 7: far as.
Speaker 3: But then why are some of the minority shareholders, and
Speaker 3: these are people who are experienced in the market. I mean,
Speaker 3: this is ninety one and momentum, this is the PIC.
Speaker 3: They want an extraordinary General meeting to remove them to
Speaker 3: appoint other people. They tell you have a very different
Speaker 3: view to you.
Speaker 7: They have a different view. I think it's also important
Speaker 7: to bear in mind that the shoulders that you've mentioned,
Speaker 7: including the PIC, all hold more shares and high prop
Speaker 7: than what they hold in mass. In other words, they
Speaker 7: are overweight high proper and underweight mass, which means that
Speaker 7: if there's a transaction pushed through whereby high proper requires
Speaker 7: mass at an exchange rate which is unfavorable to massive shoulders.
Speaker 7: In general, the only parties that could possibly benefit from
Speaker 7: such a thing would be shelders that have a greater waiting.
Speaker 6: To high proper than what they have to mass.
Speaker 7: And the concerning thing is that these shelters seem to
Speaker 7: be supporting and working with high prop possibly to do
Speaker 7: a transaction that favors high prop, and that would also
Speaker 7: favor them because of the net shouldings they had in
Speaker 7: two companies at the cost of all the other shoulders
Speaker 7: in mass, which include ourselves and all the other minority
Speaker 7: shoulders roughly seventy percent of the shoulders, and that is
Speaker 7: the concerning thing. Now, It's all good and well if
Speaker 7: sheulders want to sell their shares at eighteen rounds a share,
Speaker 7: which is what High Proper is effectively proposing with each
Speaker 7: shares swap, for them to have the right to do so,
Speaker 7: But we don't think it is appropriate to dress up
Speaker 7: an offer document, which sorry an option document as an
Speaker 7: offer document.
Speaker 6: I think that's the inappropriate partner.
Speaker 7: We would expect that the JC should insist that this
Speaker 7: officer should remain open after it became unconditional, which would
Speaker 7: be the case for any other offer launch for the company,
Speaker 7: including if we should launch an offer.
Speaker 3: Okay, the question really boils down to this, why is
Speaker 3: it better for shareholders? Why do they get more value
Speaker 3: from basically sticking with the current situation rather than selling,
Speaker 3: rather than taking.
Speaker 7: This current share price is twenty three round fifty and
Speaker 7: the price that High Proper is offering again the smoke
Speaker 7: and mirrors is eighteen rands a share. High Proper is
Speaker 7: saying it's offering twenty four runds a share in cash
Speaker 7: or shares and High prop But if you analyze the situation,
Speaker 7: but closer, you would soon realize that the cash portion
Speaker 7: of the offer is so small that if all sholders
Speaker 7: accept their offer, shows will and we receive five percent
Speaker 7: of the process of the cell in the form of cash.
Speaker 7: In other words, if you hold one hundred mash shares
Speaker 7: and everybody accepts, and you decide to sell your shes
Speaker 7: to high Proper, except grunt them the option rather and
Speaker 7: high problem than load they later decide to acquire, they
Speaker 7: may there are quite only five percent of the shares
Speaker 7: for cash. The rest of it you're receiving the form
Speaker 7: of high proper shares. And if you look at the
Speaker 7: exchange ratio that implies the value of eighteen round per
Speaker 7: MASH share, that is far below the trading price today.
Speaker 7: It's far below the offer price that we indicate, which
Speaker 7: is twenty nine rand in cash and thirty one round
Speaker 7: in equity. And it is also far below the net
Speaker 7: acid value persue. So you know, it's just a very
Speaker 7: very poor value prospect. And I think that if you're
Speaker 7: going to grant an option to another party, then and
Speaker 7: the option price is below the market price, and then
Speaker 7: the other party should pay you an option premium for
Speaker 7: you to grant that option.
Speaker 3: Martin Slabbert, thank you, CEO at Prime Capital on the
Speaker 3: Money Show this evening. Well you've heard the argument from him.
Speaker 3: There are other arguments in the market. As you know,
Speaker 3: someone who's been following this for quite some time as
Speaker 3: the financial journalist with Business Day, Michael Avery. He's been
Speaker 3: looking at it, Michael, Good evening. What's really going on here?
Speaker 3: It is one of those slightly complex transactions, Good evening, Stephen.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 9: And what is at risk of getting bogged down in
Speaker 9: corporate finance, legal ease if you go into too much
Speaker 9: of the weeds, I think effectively, and listening to what
Speaker 9: Martin Slabert was arguing around the evaluation, I mean that's
Speaker 9: for shareholders ultimately to decide. I think more alarmingly has
Speaker 9: been the lack of disclosure. And one needs to go
Speaker 9: back in time here just quickly, if you'll allow me,
Speaker 9: Stephen to break it down. Martin and Slabbert moved to
Speaker 9: Romania back in the late two thousands when he co
Speaker 9: founded NEPI rock Castle along with South Africa's Resilient Group,
Speaker 9: and they became one of the largest mall owners in
Speaker 9: Central and Eastern Europe. He then left NEPI to found
Speaker 9: Prime Capital in twenty sixteen seventeen along with Victor Semyonov,
Speaker 9: and they then partner with Mass via this development joint venture,
Speaker 9: this DJV, which is effectively to co develop property assets
Speaker 9: in Central and Eastern Europe, and PKI and Mass sign
Speaker 9: agreements that allow Mass to provide significant funding to the DJV,
Speaker 9: while PKI retains control over development operations, and over time,
Speaker 9: Mass continues to provide capital to the DJV, but shareholders
Speaker 9: begin questioning the lack of visible returns. We also see
Speaker 9: PKI starting to accumulate a strategic stake in Mass, and
Speaker 9: it's partly using the capital of the capital that's flowing
Speaker 9: from the DJV to do this. And that's really now
Speaker 9: in the early two thousands when concerns starts surfacing about transparency,
Speaker 9: particularly regarding the development margin and the exact mechanics of
Speaker 9: capital allocation. Because what happens, and we realize only now
Speaker 9: with the benefit of hindsight, that there was a fee
Speaker 9: that was being paid over that was not being disclosed
Speaker 9: to shareholders. A shareholder circular back in twenty twenty two
Speaker 9: on Mass's corporate structure amidst key DJV contractual details. These
Speaker 9: later surface in a recent sense announcement, and this has
Speaker 9: really fueled the accuisations, these accusations of piecemeal delayed disclosure,
Speaker 9: and so there's been a breakdown of trust I think
Speaker 9: because of that, and why these minority shareholders have started
Speaker 9: to refer to this as a creeping coup or creeping acquisition.
Speaker 9: Because also what happened is the MI, the Memorandum of
Speaker 9: incorporation of MASS is in Malta and in Malta. Even
Speaker 9: though it is listed here as well, its primary domicile
Speaker 9: is in Malta, and so it doesn't enjoy the same
Speaker 9: shareholder protections or minorities certainly don't enjoy the same shareholder
Speaker 9: protections as they would if they were listed on the JC.
Speaker 9: And just one more point quickly around conflicts of interest.
Speaker 9: I mean, this is the same Prime Capital whose partner
Speaker 9: Andrew Bird is married to Mass's former CFO Nadine Bird,
Speaker 9: the person who helped structure one of the earlier deals
Speaker 9: and transactions that were announced to the market this year
Speaker 9: before PKI then sweetened its offer. So there's lots of
Speaker 9: questions that are circulating around independence in particular, and why
Speaker 9: I think we see now the EDM requisitioned by these
Speaker 9: minority shareholders.
Speaker 3: Michael Avery really appreciate that, thank you very much. Indeed,
Speaker 3: financial journalist with Business Day, the Money Show, the Market,
Speaker 3: Cier and Barter's investment analyst at the old mutual investment
Speaker 3: Groups here, good evening. Quite an interesting deal that Sabanya
Speaker 3: still Water has done now investing in the US.
Speaker 10: Stephen, Yes, quite interesting. So they've acquired a US precious
Speaker 10: metal recycler called Metlex and the deal's roughly worth about
Speaker 10: eighty two million dollars in cash, and it's west in Greenville,
Speaker 10: North Carolina. So the interesting part about the deal is
Speaker 10: that although it's relatively small, it's part of the continuation
Speaker 10: of the company's move into recycling, with possibly some sylogies
Speaker 10: with its still Water recycling operations. And another angle in
Speaker 10: my colleague mentioned who covers the the company, mentioned that
Speaker 10: one possible angle is that it could be interesting if
Speaker 10: tariffs are introduced on precious metals going into the US
Speaker 10: and therefore making exports from Sothatic a lot more expensive,
Speaker 10: that it would actually position Sabanya as a key as
Speaker 10: a key manufacturer within that region.
Speaker 3: And then we've got more sanctions from the EU on
Speaker 3: Russian oil. Not sure how much of an impact it's
Speaker 3: going to have. I mean, oil markets have been pretty stable, right.
Speaker 10: So we haven't seen much movement from the announcements of sanctions.
Speaker 10: And really this is the eighteenth package from the European Union.
Speaker 10: And additionally, they're not targeting an Indian company called Nayara Energy,
Speaker 10: so they are an exporter of oil refined oil products
Speaker 10: from Russian crude. One of their key shareholders is also
Speaker 10: a Russian so that was also quite interesting. And this
Speaker 10: is all in a bit to crack down on Russia
Speaker 10: and the involvement with the conflict of the Ukraine. Although
Speaker 10: Russia represents about ten percent of global production, we haven't
Speaker 10: seen much move and I think what we've learned from
Speaker 10: the from the last wave of sanctions is that actually
Speaker 10: oil finds a way. So it was in the last
Speaker 10: way we saw that Russian crude actually went to India
Speaker 10: and China and the sanctions were pretty more, pretty pretty minimal,
Speaker 10: had a pretty minimal impact. So yeah, I guess just
Speaker 10: another way of sanctions.
Speaker 3: Sierah and Barta, thanks so much. Investment analyst at the
Speaker 3: Old Mutual Investment Group.
Speaker 1: The Lanny Show with Stephen krutis live on ninety two
Speaker 1: point seven and one six FM streaming on the Prime
Speaker 1: Media Plus.
Speaker 2: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.
Speaker 3: Just kind accord it to seven. Well, this story is
Speaker 3: developing in a strange way. So as we came to air,
Speaker 3: there was a statement from the Presidency saying, and this
Speaker 3: was the headline, President Drummer Pausa appoints new Minister and
Speaker 3: Deputy Minister of Higher Education and Training and then went
Speaker 3: on to spell out at Putimanamella is the new Minister
Speaker 3: of Higher Education and Training. No mention of Nobochle and
Speaker 3: Cabane who, Well, one had to read between the lines.
Speaker 3: Now in the last few moments, a new statement, an
Speaker 3: updated statement from the Presidency. It says this this is
Speaker 3: the heading President Romo Pausa removes doctor in Cabane and
Speaker 3: appoints new Minister and Deputy Minister of Higher Education and Training.
Speaker 3: That the sentence President saw Romo Porsa has removed doctor
Speaker 3: Nbuchlyn Cabane from the role of Minister and Higher Education
Speaker 3: and Training. There's a lot going on here. Donovan Williams
Speaker 3: as a social commentator in Analyst Donovan Good Evening, I've
Speaker 3: seen the presidency release statements about reshuffles and removals before.
Speaker 3: I don't think I've ever seen them announcing well here's
Speaker 3: the new person, and then a few moments later another
Speaker 3: statement saying well, actually, yes we did remove them.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 11: It is quite interesting and I think it was mainly
Speaker 11: prompted by the release of a statement by the Ministry
Speaker 11: of As headed by the previous minister. I think like
Speaker 11: a mini muntypython sc by the previous minister thanking the
Speaker 11: President for serving without necessary saying they are removed or
Speaker 11: they have resigned. And the interpretation by that was that
Speaker 11: she had resigned and not the President had removed her.
Speaker 11: So the latest statement by the President is to confirm
Speaker 11: that she was actually removed, because the interpretation was that
Speaker 11: her statement meant that she had resigned. It's kind of
Speaker 11: like this in a way, if I could use this
Speaker 11: football analogy on transfers and the team I support in
Speaker 11: England for all my I guess bad doing is Manchester United,
Speaker 11: and generally speaking, how they go through transfers.
Speaker 5: Is that they take quite a long time.
Speaker 11: In the end, they pay the club what the club
Speaker 11: that ouked for initially, and you always wonder as a
Speaker 11: fan that why didn't you do that in the first place,
Speaker 11: Why did you go back and forth and with the
Speaker 11: president on this matter. It seems like he should have
Speaker 11: have moved very quickly when he had asked her to
Speaker 11: explain and did not condone her behavior in the Portfolio committee.
Speaker 11: He should have moved it without the prompting because what
Speaker 11: it looks like now it was prompted by his opposition parties,
Speaker 11: the AFF, the DA and so forth, as well as
Speaker 11: the South African Students Congress and et cetera. So I
Speaker 11: don't think the President has helped himself. But at the
Speaker 11: same time, it's an outcome that I think is good.
Speaker 11: But he's putting himself in a situation where he is dand.
Speaker 5: If he does or damned if he doesn't, and he
Speaker 5: shouldn't do that.
Speaker 11: So the certainly the South Africans want, they don't feel
Speaker 11: it even when he asserts himself.
Speaker 5: That's potentially what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: That's that's such an interesting point, So that, I mean,
Speaker 3: how important was this to this, to all of this,
Speaker 3: And it may be impossible to know what how important
Speaker 3: was the DA threat to vote against the higher education
Speaker 3: budget if she were still the minister, and that would
Speaker 3: have put the entire budget process in danger and perhaps
Speaker 3: brought about the end of the coalition. Now I'm sure
Speaker 3: that DA is going to say, look what we did,
Speaker 3: We're very clever, etc. I'm sure the A and C
Speaker 3: is going to say, no, no, no, no, no, it
Speaker 3: was something else. How important was that?
Speaker 11: Look, we would as you started, we would never really know,
Speaker 11: except I would say this, our politics are in trouble,
Speaker 11: steven or parliamentary or party politics are in trouble. If
Speaker 11: it's horse trading to that extent, if it's horse trading
Speaker 11: to that extent, where an a matter that doesn't necessarily
Speaker 11: faith the country in terms of the budget, you are
Speaker 11: saying we will not vote if you don't remove X
Speaker 11: minister or so forth. If we get to that point,
Speaker 11: and I think all the parties must start to realize
Speaker 11: that South Africa's party politics.
Speaker 6: Is in trouble.
Speaker 11: No single party got over fifty percent, No single party
Speaker 11: can claim that they have the actual, real critical mass
Speaker 11: or majority of South Africans. Voting has consistently, you know,
Speaker 11: decreased very very consistently, and sharply even for that matter,
Speaker 11: So we have I think political leaders and this is
Speaker 11: not about government of national immunity and so forth must
Speaker 11: say to themselves, are we making our politics like a
Speaker 11: bazaar where you shop for the best pride and have
Speaker 11: very little with what we require as a country. So
Speaker 11: that must bother us, and that must posit the president
Speaker 11: as well as well as the leadership of the Democratic
Speaker 11: Alliance or whatever else, who thinks that you should be
Speaker 11: barttering in this way. It's craft and it's not required
Speaker 11: when you look at what we require, what we need
Speaker 11: in the country.
Speaker 3: Donovan Williams really appreciate the time tonight at short notice.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Social commentator and analyst will now the presidency
Speaker 3: confirming that the President removed the Higher Education Minister.
Speaker 6: What ups Stephen only seventy two seven oh two one.
Speaker 1: Seven oh two.
Speaker 3: A confirmation this morning from Sabania Stillwater. It's spending just
Speaker 3: under one and a half billion rand. It's buying the
Speaker 3: American firm Metallics Refining. It produces gold, platinum group metals
Speaker 3: and silver from industrial waste streams in North Carolina, Pea Major,
Speaker 3: the director of mining at Modern Corporate Solutions peta good evening. Basically,
Speaker 3: Sabania gets more access to gold, silver and PGM production.
Speaker 3: It's also happening in the US where it's protected from tariffs.
Speaker 3: On paper, this would look like a good deal.
Speaker 4: It does look like a good deal.
Speaker 8: I'm not sure if the price is a great deal
Speaker 8: or not, because that's the single biggest determinant of return
Speaker 8: on investment. We don't need what we're above that to
Speaker 8: tell us that. But that's what he always says. The
Speaker 8: price you enter in is the single most important consideration.
Speaker 8: But at least you're buying something that is very similar
Speaker 8: to something they already have.
Speaker 5: They've already had a big.
Speaker 8: PGM recycling business, so there will be synergies there. It's
Speaker 8: easy to those synergies. They don't have to use smoke
Speaker 8: and mirrors to justify it. It's not like they're buying
Speaker 8: a different commodity in a different country that they've never
Speaker 8: had presence or experience in. And I don't know how
Speaker 8: much of this is paid in cash your shares because
Speaker 8: it's still a chunk of money, and it says it's
Speaker 8: paid in cash, But when your share price has gone
Speaker 8: up threefold in the last six months, it's not hard
Speaker 8: to raise that kind of cash. So say, this isn't
Speaker 8: a bad deal for Sabania on what I've seen compared
Speaker 8: to the other deals they've been making the last few years.
Speaker 5: I think this is a decent deal, Steve.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's fascinating to watch this play out. So
Speaker 3: Sabania produces platinum, platinum is exempt from US tariffs? Is
Speaker 3: it now in a you know, a really strong position.
Speaker 3: No matter kind of what happens, it's someone's playing very
Speaker 3: very good trump chess here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I.
Speaker 8: Think they would have bought it under the current I
Speaker 8: think they would I bought it without all this tariff hussle.
Speaker 8: To be honest, it was quite forthright when they bought
Speaker 8: still a few years ago. We have to diversify out
Speaker 8: of South Africa, and we know we have to pay
Speaker 8: more than we pay for assets in South Africa. We
Speaker 8: think it's worth the trouble, the risk, the expense, so
Speaker 8: that shareholders have a very international company that's much more
Speaker 8: impervious to the machinations of South African politics and legislation,
Speaker 8: et cetera. So I think, like I said, this is
Speaker 8: more in line with their traditional work. And yeah, it's
Speaker 8: on the far end of the PGMs. It's after they've
Speaker 8: dug them out on the ground, refined them, sold them,
Speaker 8: they got used up, and then they get to recycle
Speaker 8: them again. And the fact that they got the PGM
Speaker 8: metal prices, all of them turning now and going in
Speaker 8: their favor for the last few months. It's really given
Speaker 8: a great suit charge to the share to the company.
Speaker 3: Peter Major, thank you so much, Director of Mining at
Speaker 3: Modern Corporate Solutions.
Speaker 12: The Money Show with Stephen Croutez is brought to you
Speaker 12: by Absolve Corporate and Investment Bank crowd sponsor of the
Speaker 12: African Blockchain Report twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Well, you've heard over the last few months a little
Speaker 3: bit of a debate around whether government should still encourage
Speaker 3: or even financially incentivize smelters to operate when they use
Speaker 3: so much electricity. I suppose this takes you to an
Speaker 3: argument about industrial policy, whether we should still be producing
Speaker 3: certain products here. If you don't, you're de industrializing. And
Speaker 3: of course there is this strong argument that you should
Speaker 3: be beneficiating our minerals here rather than selling them a
Speaker 3: sort of raw awe to China.
Speaker 13: RP.
Speaker 3: Fullard is the CEO of Glencoy glen Core Pharaoh Alloys. Yuppie,
Speaker 3: good evening, thanks for your time. You're in an interesting position.
Speaker 3: You actually produce chrome with Marafa Resources, you had to
Speaker 3: suspend production of some of your smelters. Electricity prices are
Speaker 3: very high. I'm sure you would agree with me. They're
Speaker 3: going to go higher. Still, is there still an economic
Speaker 3: case for chrome smelters in South Africa?
Speaker 14: There are good Evening Stephen, and first of all, thank
Speaker 14: you also for the opportunity to also put our viewpoint forward.
Speaker 14: Would it be okay perhaps if I can just just
Speaker 14: quickly highlight Glink or especially our footprint in South Africa.
Speaker 14: As you know, we've got Glink or Fellow always where
Speaker 14: we've got massive beneficiation operations. We've got chrome mines underground
Speaker 14: chrome mines, so that means that we are integrated, so
Speaker 14: we mind the are and then we also beneficiate the ore.
Speaker 14: Then we also have got astron energy as you know,
Speaker 14: and then also Glink or Cole, So I mean from
Speaker 14: that perspective, Glink is actually quite a big player in
Speaker 14: South Africa in terms of using it using you know, electricity,
Speaker 14: but also in coal to be able to actually produce electricity.
Speaker 5: So we are we are on a very fortunate puisition.
Speaker 14: But coming back to your question, just in terms of
Speaker 14: beneficiating or into ferrow, you know, into ferrochrome. So that
Speaker 14: means you take the value of the ore and you
Speaker 14: upgrade it, and by doing that you are adding a
Speaker 14: huge amount of value. And if you just think about
Speaker 14: all the positive spin offs. I mean, obviously we are
Speaker 14: very electricity intensive, and this is where the challenge comes in,
Speaker 14: is that you know, during load shedding, we as the
Speaker 14: as the energy intensive users, are being asked, let's try
Speaker 14: to pull back some of our operations, which we are
Speaker 14: doing and did do so in the past quite you know,
Speaker 14: quite successfully.
Speaker 5: But unfortunately.
Speaker 14: I mean, if you have a look at what happened
Speaker 14: since two thousand and seven, electricity prices went up but
Speaker 14: by more than eight hundred think and where the GDP
Speaker 14: only went down by one So you can see that
Speaker 14: there is a massive disconnect. And for that reason, if
Speaker 14: you compare US versus China or more than fifty percent
Speaker 14: cheaper than us on electricity and lectricity being a very
Speaker 14: important cost effecting our operations, I mean.
Speaker 3: That that that probably almost makes it unbeatable. Unfortunately, are
Speaker 3: the other big risk to you the regulatory environment. I mean,
Speaker 3: regulations can change quite quickly. Cabinet I think two months
Speaker 3: ago said they supported an export tax on chrome for example.
Speaker 3: I mean, I wasn't expecting that you might have been.
Speaker 3: Is there regulatory environment? Does that make it tough for you?
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean, of course, I think just to come
Speaker 14: back again, South Africa sits between seventeen and eighty percent
Speaker 14: of the chrome or in the world, the place in
Speaker 14: South Africa. So obviously we we are South Africans have
Speaker 14: got first of all the right and and and then
Speaker 14: secondly the opportunity to actually create the value. And due
Speaker 14: to policy, it makes it quite difficult because I mean,
Speaker 14: obviously the Aortax, we knew about this coming coming forward
Speaker 14: a while ago. But it's it's important to understand that
Speaker 14: it's not a single solution that is going to help
Speaker 14: us to really beneficiate in South Africa. I'm not sure
Speaker 14: if you know about the cabinet statement that was released
Speaker 14: by the on the on the twenty sixth of June
Speaker 14: and in the year they specifically refer to a cheaper
Speaker 14: electricity tariff for the energy intensive users. So if we
Speaker 14: can get that, obviously we will then be more competitive.
Speaker 14: So that's the first focus. The first focus should be
Speaker 14: to have cheaper, cheaper electricity and that is a govern
Speaker 14: policy that need to you know, to change and if
Speaker 14: they can do that, sure, obviously we you know, we
Speaker 14: will be the competitive and then obviously there's yeah.
Speaker 3: So yeah, sorry, we've got thirty seconds left left. There's
Speaker 3: a trade off here. So government on the one side,
Speaker 3: if they give you cheaper electricity, if they change the
Speaker 3: policy in that regard, okay, it'll involve Eskin, but that
Speaker 3: probably means that everybody else has to pay a little
Speaker 3: bit more. Now, explain to me why it would be
Speaker 3: worth that. What I'm really asking you is to paint
Speaker 3: the picture for me of South Africa without ferrochrome smelters.
Speaker 14: Yeah, Stephen, I think that that is that is the
Speaker 14: perfect you know a question if you have a look
Speaker 14: at what we are contributing to to you know, towards
Speaker 14: Iscom's revenue. We're talking about on the fedoclone side, between
Speaker 14: fifteen and twenty billion rand per year if we close
Speaker 14: down all the smelters. I mean, I just want to
Speaker 14: say that we don't have one smelter current is running,
Speaker 14: so that means ISCAM doesn't get that electron sales. So
Speaker 14: either you get fifteen billion which they are getting now
Speaker 14: versus zero. So the South Africa is somebody is going
Speaker 14: to pick it up anyway. So it's actually more beneficial
Speaker 14: to actually use more electrons so that they can have
Speaker 14: a constant revenue and by having that work around alternatives,
Speaker 14: I'm not treating that makes sense.
Speaker 3: Sure does Yappi Filler, thanks very much in Dedco for
Speaker 3: glen Core Pharaoh Alloys. Just bringing the time to just
Speaker 3: after seven o'clock.
Speaker 1: And now the Money Show with Stephen credits.
Speaker 3: On seven oh two network that all The Money Show
Speaker 3: with Stephen Cretis is brought to you by ABS, the
Speaker 3: Corporate and Investment Bank, proud sponsor of the African Blockchain
Speaker 3: Report twenty twenty four. Good evening, Welcome to the second hour.
Speaker 3: I'm Stephen Cretis. Well already, I'm quite a sort of
Speaker 3: busy money show really. The Presidency statement kicking us off,
Speaker 3: saying that there was a new Minister of Higher Education,
Speaker 3: clarification about what had happened Tonbokle and Kabane. Then about
Speaker 3: half an hour later clarification from the presidents he's saying
Speaker 3: he had removed her. You heard Donovan Williams explaining earlier
Speaker 3: that in his view, it seems that Nobokle and Cabane
Speaker 3: may have caused that by simply announcing that she was leaving,
Speaker 3: not even really formally resigning. I suspect, though, that lots
Speaker 3: of people are going to see this in lots of
Speaker 3: different ways over the next little while, and it is
Speaker 3: going to all get a little bit messy. My first thought,
Speaker 3: of course, is that it should mean that there won't
Speaker 3: be any drama with the budget and the appropriations process
Speaker 3: in Parliament later this week. Hard to know for sure.
Speaker 3: This is South African politics we're talking about, but I
Speaker 3: would like to think that this will now go through.
Speaker 3: And I say that because having the budget stop now
Speaker 3: would lead us down a very very difficult path one
Speaker 3: way or another, whatever were to happen. We're talking councils
Speaker 3: and municipalities. In just a moment, Trevor Manual's been talking
Speaker 3: a little bit about them. And then well, of course
Speaker 3: we'll be looking at a book review. We'll be talking
Speaker 3: about companies that actually do change things. And then don't
Speaker 3: forget em Bali and Clap or someone who's made of
Speaker 3: money made a lot of money, well, I think done
Speaker 3: well for herself out of becoming a housekeeper and cleaning influencer.
Speaker 3: Did you know that in the last quarter of last
Speaker 3: year the number of domestic workers employed in South Africa
Speaker 3: was still sixteen percent lower than it was before the pandemic.
Speaker 3: Something happened in the pandemic to domestic work in this country,
Speaker 3: and think of how many people depend on it, how
Speaker 3: many families depend on what's happened to them. So one
Speaker 3: of the questions are put to Embali when she comes
Speaker 3: in in about twenty minutes time is if she's any
Speaker 3: seen any less demand during that time? Extraordinary things going on?
Speaker 3: Could to hear from you tonight as well? You may
Speaker 3: well have a view on the former higher education minister
Speaker 3: all the new one Puttimnamella I know double one douaa
Speaker 3: three oh seven two two one four four six o
Speaker 3: five six seven and voice notes tonight I know seven
Speaker 3: two seven oh two two.
Speaker 1: Stephens on the Money Show six to eight pm.
Speaker 3: Well, you probably know that many people feel well a
Speaker 3: bit frustrated about their municipalities at the moment. In most
Speaker 3: parts of the country. I think there's actually a growing
Speaker 3: sense of anger. In Joeburg. News twenty four has been
Speaker 3: reporting how the A and c's chief whip in joe Burg,
Speaker 3: sit In Biso Zongo, has been accused of running it
Speaker 3: basically a construction mafia. He denies interfering with the school project.
Speaker 3: It does seem that he was actually sentenced to two
Speaker 3: months in prison for his involvement in that. Again he
Speaker 3: denies that. Meanwhile, and this was very interesting last week
Speaker 3: the chair of Old Mutual Trevor Manuel, yes the former
Speaker 3: finance minister. He made a series of comments about councils
Speaker 3: in general and joe Burg in particular.
Speaker 15: If we look at what's happening in local government across
Speaker 15: the country, and for the bulk of my time, I
Speaker 15: live in Johannesburg, and you can't think of a worse
Speaker 15: local authority than Johannesburg. Many days without water, how many
Speaker 15: days without electricity, how many roads without potholes, how many
Speaker 15: roads where sewage does not flow down the streets because
Speaker 15: of neglect, because tenders are more important than the people.
Speaker 3: Trevor Manuel speaking last week at the funeral service of
Speaker 3: a former mayor, OK Theresa Solomon. She was, of course
Speaker 3: a former mayor of Cape Ton, did play other roles
Speaker 3: during the struggle and after nineteen ninety four as well
Speaker 3: to Tyro Rantlwane is engagement manager at in Tisaw Revenue
Speaker 3: Consulting to Tyro good evening. I think Trevimmanuel may have
Speaker 3: been speaking for many joe Berg residents when he said that,
Speaker 3: and maybe for a lot more people when he spoke
Speaker 3: about the sense that money is just being stolen or
Speaker 3: eaten or disappears somehow. Is that feeling ready backed up
Speaker 3: by evidence in many councils around the country.
Speaker 5: Graving Stephen, and thank you so much for having me Wimately,
Speaker 5: is that is the same messages reverberating throughout the different
Speaker 5: municipalities as well, right, I mean, if you look at
Speaker 5: even the works the white paper that we are busy
Speaker 5: reviewing now, the very very first critical issue that needs
Speaker 5: to be reviewed is basically municipal fiscussed and financial reform.
Speaker 5: You know, it's basically ensuring that the funds that are
Speaker 5: coming into municipalities are actually properly allocated. I mean, even
Speaker 5: our honorable President he actually mentioned that. I mean, he's
Speaker 5: on a speech saying that, you know, across the country,
Speaker 5: roads are not maintained, water electricity supplies are often disrupted,
Speaker 5: you know, I mean it's basically the basic services that
Speaker 5: a lot of a mere person like you and me
Speaker 5: are sometimes being discarded about. Because this is what we
Speaker 5: are experiencing on a daily basis. So there is an
Speaker 5: element of frustration and anger. There is the idea of
Speaker 5: mismanagement of funds that's happening. As I said, it's actually
Speaker 5: number one of the nine critical issues to be reviewed
Speaker 5: by the White Paper for Local Government.
Speaker 3: I don't even have to make the obvious point about
Speaker 3: joe Berg that I live in joe Burg, like River Manual,
Speaker 3: perhaps like yourself. I don't know. And there's a budget
Speaker 3: of eighty three billion round and I can't see where
Speaker 3: the money goes. I just can't. But there's another great
Speaker 3: example of how this particular council has dealt with money.
Speaker 3: Several years ago, they voted in favor of having a
Speaker 3: surcharge basically a if you buy prepaid electricity, you needed
Speaker 3: to pay a network fee.
Speaker 16: Right.
Speaker 3: They eventually implemented that at two hundred rand a month.
Speaker 3: And now suddenly they've decided because they went through a
Speaker 3: period of having decided to implement it but not actually
Speaker 3: doing it, now they're crawing back the money from people.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is kind of almost tailor made to frustrate.
Speaker 5: I mean, that's essentially sometimes what the people on the
Speaker 5: ground are actually constantly feeling that the constantly more and
Speaker 5: more money that's being taken out of our pockets, you know,
Speaker 5: And it comes back to really reviewing how money is
Speaker 5: actually being managed, and it talks about even transparency right
Speaker 5: and accountability and actually ensuring that what the municipality is
Speaker 5: as adequate public participation that's happening. People who are residents
Speaker 5: need to know what's happening, What is the strategy that
Speaker 5: the municipality is imposing. If the municipality isn't distressed financially,
Speaker 5: you know, let it be known. You know, let it
Speaker 5: be known. There'll be discussions. Let it be in diesels
Speaker 5: and people are away. Why there is a search charge
Speaker 5: that is being imposed, not just it being given to
Speaker 5: your false fed to you, but there has to be
Speaker 5: reasons behind it, and people somehow I believe it or not.
Speaker 5: Once you sit down and you actually explain the whole context,
Speaker 5: in most cases they do understand that you can't find
Speaker 5: we are where you're from, what you are about, what
Speaker 5: their accountability is and the transparency. Then we can actually
Speaker 5: then agree to the search charge if we see it fit.
Speaker 5: You know, it's all about transparency, It's all about getting
Speaker 5: public participation involved. And when you say transparency, even talking
Speaker 5: about financial management, right, we will then know how the
Speaker 5: money is being spent. It is spent to the development
Speaker 5: of what has meant to be allocated to, you know,
Speaker 5: and that is very key. And that's why a lot
Speaker 5: of people are actually very frustrated at the moment because
Speaker 5: it's like a dark curtain, you know, and all you
Speaker 5: get is just all your search are just coming in.
Speaker 5: But then there isn't a bit of transparency with me,
Speaker 5: and you are quite clear, and I say to what's
Speaker 5: happening and where we are going as a municipality.
Speaker 3: Is the white paper going to fix any of this?
Speaker 1: The t.
Speaker 3: I kind of want to just lie under the table
Speaker 3: while while we take a minute and think about it,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 5: I mean even our president you know, mentioned that that
Speaker 5: it's all good and well on paper, right. However when
Speaker 5: it comes to execution, it's a different story. I Mean,
Speaker 5: the white paper itself really touches on all the core
Speaker 5: principles that needs to have to be achieved. I mean,
Speaker 5: if you look at the vision as well, it is
Speaker 5: really something to look forward to, you know, and ensuring
Speaker 5: that having every municipality really adhere to that vision will
Speaker 5: definitely change how South Africa is. However, it is not
Speaker 5: a silver bullet, right, It has multiple levers that need
Speaker 5: to be pulled, you know, and for that it really
Speaker 5: needs all people to really put their shoulder to the
Speaker 5: boulder and move this border appards. I mean, as I
Speaker 5: say it, we're talking about I mean there's also the
Speaker 5: issue of cater deployment, you know, where people are not
Speaker 5: necessarily qualified in their roles are in the you know.
Speaker 5: So it's all about ensuring all of these and ensuring
Speaker 5: that planning is better. I mean based on the white paper.
Speaker 5: I mean in the past five years, right, eighteen billion
Speaker 5: was returned to treasury eighteen billion, and yet we have
Speaker 5: so many municipalities that are in distress. So what does
Speaker 5: that tell you? Stevens tells you that there's poor planning
Speaker 5: and poor execution in some of the areas, you know,
Speaker 5: And what does that mean. It means that maybe bring
Speaker 5: in other people who can actually come in and actually execute.
Speaker 5: And what needs to explicit because every rand return to
Speaker 5: treasury is basically families that are not going to be
Speaker 5: impacted positively.
Speaker 3: There's there's an interesting thing that's been happening in Joeburg
Speaker 3: and There's been a lot of commentary about it, and
Speaker 3: maybe it's just a comment on the WhatsApp groups I
Speaker 3: belong to de Tirro about these public spaces like Marx Park, right,
Speaker 3: and that the city, all the city, all the Joeburg
Speaker 3: Property Company says it wants to do is kind of
Speaker 3: reassess whether they're being used effectively. What so many residents
Speaker 3: in Joeburg think is happening is that no, the city's
Speaker 3: going to take this over, try and make more money
Speaker 3: from it and effectively steal the commons from it still,
Speaker 3: you know, common areas from us now. I don't know
Speaker 3: which version is true. What I'm getting to is that
Speaker 3: the citizens are showing, or many of them, a complete
Speaker 3: lack of trust in the people who are running joebig.
Speaker 3: That's that's what I see from this, is that they
Speaker 3: don't trust Joe, they don't trust the council now and
Speaker 3: reminded that matter Queenie. Last year some people came very
Speaker 3: close to refusing to pay their rates, and I wonder
Speaker 3: how close we are to something like that.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not necessarily going to speak for one specific municipality,
Speaker 5: Steven right, I mean what we do because we are
Speaker 5: involved in multiple local municipalities. We kind of do see
Speaker 5: some similar trends or similar pain points that are being experienced,
Speaker 5: you know, and there is definitely an increased non payment
Speaker 5: culture that's happening, right, and majority of it is because
Speaker 5: we're not getting the basics right. You know, people are
Speaker 5: not getting the statements of time, or people are not
Speaker 5: being built as accurately. I know that there's a lot
Speaker 5: of estimates that have been done in a lot of
Speaker 5: municipalities as well. Why because some of the things that
Speaker 5: meter reading is not being done as effective as supposed
Speaker 5: to be.
Speaker 13: You know.
Speaker 5: So those are small things that one can actually start
Speaker 5: looking into. As another strateisical leader. They keep on emphasizing
Speaker 5: the transparency. You know, when you're transparent, then you actually
Speaker 5: ensure that public participation is the people really then understand
Speaker 5: what's going on.
Speaker 11: You know.
Speaker 5: It's like the board, you know, you constantly have to
Speaker 5: ensure that your shareholders know what's happening. If there's an
Speaker 5: Iceberger hate, you need to tell them in time that listen,
Speaker 5: there's a potential term work coming. So that's the reason
Speaker 5: why we might actually have a specific surcharge. So yes,
Speaker 5: there's definitely a huge, huge, non payment culture. I mean,
Speaker 5: as we speak now, I think there's about three hundred
Speaker 5: and forty eight billion that has been ulti municipalities by residents.
Speaker 5: You know, especially when you're talking about electricity day now,
Speaker 5: when you actually touch base on some of these majorities
Speaker 5: and are saying, well, I'm being built, but I don't
Speaker 5: trust what I'm being built. So that's why I keep
Speaker 5: on saying that transparency and public participation is very important,
Speaker 5: but talking about it as well as financial mismanagement needs
Speaker 5: to be really curved. You know, people need to be accountable,
Speaker 5: and then people need to make sure that the right
Speaker 5: decision makers with qualifications that can really cutapult the municipality
Speaker 5: to the next level, are they you.
Speaker 3: Know, he needs people with vision. Yeah, the Tyroll, thanks
Speaker 3: so much. Really appreciate the time the Tyroll run. Laowane,
Speaker 3: his engagement manager at in Tesau Revenue Consulting. So much
Speaker 3: going on in the local government space, so much not
Speaker 3: going on in the local government space at the moment.
Speaker 3: The Money Show Business books, well, yeah, man managing director
Speaker 3: of Gateway's Business Consultants. He's been looking at the book
Speaker 3: Distinguishes not Distinguished Distinguishes by Professor Sandra vanderva Ye and
Speaker 3: good evening fund I think quite a long track record
Speaker 3: in South Africa and marketing all sorts of things as
Speaker 3: all sorts of things. What's this, what makes what distinguishes distinguishers.
Speaker 17: Distinguishers is an unusual what she does. It's it's almost
Speaker 17: an encyclopedia where the world's moving to. But she analyzes
Speaker 17: what she's seeing and she breaks up into four four stages.
Speaker 17: And the beauty of this is that you can actually
Speaker 17: understand where it's all going to, and you get a
Speaker 17: sense of where you should be positioning yourself and I
Speaker 17: should be looking at your company and what more they
Speaker 17: can actually do. The book covers by one hundred different
Speaker 17: companies and examples from all of them, local, international, everywhere.
Speaker 17: So it's a fascinating read, reads very easily, and it's
Speaker 17: not just an agglomeration of a lot of ideas. She's
Speaker 17: got a model that comes right through this. She says
Speaker 17: that they are four stages in change that goes on.
Speaker 17: First stage is to shake up and disrupt the status quo.
Speaker 17: The second stage is to frame an emerging future so
Speaker 17: it's different to what's now, and then you're going to
Speaker 17: build into their future. The third one is anything you
Speaker 17: do do at speed because the guys are coming after you.
Speaker 17: And the last one is scale it up. So what
Speaker 17: she's done, she's taken examples from all over to show
Speaker 17: how all this can work. Now, the thing what's most
Speaker 17: useful is that actually is practical. You if somebody said
Speaker 17: well you must shake up your industry and say, well,
Speaker 17: a great idea, what does that actually mean? And I
Speaker 17: think that she's using She's shown examples of four different
Speaker 17: types of shakeup. I'll just give you a couple. One
Speaker 17: of them is is the logical triggers. There are things
Speaker 17: which are happening around you which are logically not okay,
Speaker 17: And when you look at it, you say, logically, here
Speaker 17: we have far too many accidents in this country, and
Speaker 17: because we have far too many accidents, it costs insurance
Speaker 17: companies a great deal of money. Logically, there must be
Speaker 17: a better way to do it. And then you give
Speaker 17: people like discoveries, saying okay, i'll tell you what. We'll
Speaker 17: give you all sorts of benefits if you drive properly,
Speaker 17: so we'll monitor your how you drive, how you break
Speaker 17: all sorts of things, and if you're good at that,
Speaker 17: we're gonna benefit you're gonna benefit from it, So I've
Speaker 17: now got an incentive to actually try to be a
Speaker 17: better driver. There will be a logical trigger for something else.
Speaker 17: You also get emotional triggers. So what happens is you
Speaker 17: can you might find that you've got a you're involved
Speaker 17: in something and it's emotional, and you see music and
Speaker 17: you want to enjoy it more, but you can't. So
Speaker 17: you have to have something or other that's going to
Speaker 17: allow you to enjoy that sort of thing. The ethical triggers.
Speaker 17: The ethical trigger could be we've got to try and
Speaker 17: make money more available to people. So if you took
Speaker 17: something like impesso, which is a way of sharing money
Speaker 17: with people who don't have bank accounts, you've got all
Speaker 17: those sorts of ways that there's got to be a
Speaker 17: better way of doing it. And people who have come
Speaker 17: up and started to do new things are the ones
Speaker 17: that make a difference. She tells a cut little story
Speaker 17: about Zuckerberg early at the very early point of trying
Speaker 17: to build Facebook and one of the you can imagine
Speaker 17: suited investor system. Have you got any examples of anybody
Speaker 17: who's created a global social network and made any money
Speaker 17: out of it? He said, no, but that's exactly the point, sure,
Speaker 17: and I think that the key is to try and
Speaker 17: find something that nobody else has done so you can
Speaker 17: start doing something that really makes the difference. So what
Speaker 17: we what when you look at trying to shake up
Speaker 17: an industry. One of the most obvious examples of an
Speaker 17: industry that's shaking up. As opposed to selling stuff, we're
Speaker 17: selling services. So you don't you wouldn't but you wouldn't
Speaker 17: buy a car, you'd buy the service of a car.
Speaker 3: And so it's going from buying your IBM computer yes,
Speaker 3: to buying services from ib.
Speaker 17: Now the lovely part about that is IBM would retain
Speaker 17: the computer themselves, they sell, have it on their balance sheet,
Speaker 17: and all they have to do is they have to
Speaker 17: see to it that works all the time, because if
Speaker 17: it stops working, you'll cancel your contract to give it
Speaker 17: back or you should be giving it back and they
Speaker 17: will repair it for you quickly so that you can
Speaker 17: continue using it.
Speaker 6: So the challenge is not Yes, there.
Speaker 17: Are people in in in South Africa who might put
Speaker 17: solar panels on your roof, but there's a there's a
Speaker 17: company in the United States called sun Run. What they
Speaker 17: do is they will they will rent you the solo,
Speaker 17: which is terrific, except that all you want from solar
Speaker 17: panels is electric So what you do is you don't
Speaker 17: rent the panels. You pay only for electricity that you use.
Speaker 17: And this is there's a there's a mind shift because
Speaker 17: as opposed to saying, well, you've rented the car and
Speaker 17: now you just have to have it. So you've rented
Speaker 17: the car fromust and our job to see too that
Speaker 17: you can continue to doing what you paid money for,
Speaker 17: which is to drive the car. So you might only
Speaker 17: pay for the amount of kilometers that you drive, but
Speaker 17: it's turning as much as you possibly can into into
Speaker 17: into a service which we've never had before. And I
Speaker 17: think that that's that's a game changer.
Speaker 3: So I mean when we talk about distinguishes, what we're
Speaker 3: really talking about our companies that actually change the world.
Speaker 17: Absolutely, And it really is that to the extent that
Speaker 17: you're you're talking about changing changing behavior. You don't want
Speaker 17: to simply create new stuff which will enhance people's behavior,
Speaker 17: but what you are trying to do is you want
Speaker 17: to literally change their behavior to reflect what the new
Speaker 17: demands would be. You want to improve the products or services,
Speaker 17: so you find better ways of doing what they can do.
Speaker 17: So you're trying to really shape things completely differently. And
Speaker 17: I think that the the instead of using technology to
Speaker 17: enhance your ability to produce more products more cheaply, you
Speaker 17: use technology to see that the customer's experience is much
Speaker 17: more wholesome and therefore they more likely to use your
Speaker 17: product more.
Speaker 3: So You've got, You've got. These are not ideas.
Speaker 17: You can actually read this lovely book with hundreds literally
Speaker 17: I think it's about a hundred different companies that they
Speaker 17: talk about, but that she talks about, all of these
Speaker 17: companies are going to be examples of what you can do.
Speaker 17: I think this book is particularly valuable to people in
Speaker 17: business only because it will stimulate your thinking. And I
Speaker 17: think that what happens very often we hear more of
Speaker 17: the same. And when you hear stuff, we're just out
Speaker 17: of the box. That's nice, and especially if there's something
Speaker 17: already in the box, so you can say they did this,
Speaker 17: let's do something else. And if somebody has done something,
Speaker 17: you can always have an add on if you look.
Speaker 17: If you think that you can turn a car in
Speaker 17: into an asset which now becomes something you can use.
Speaker 17: But if you can't afford the asset, maybe you could
Speaker 17: just rent the asset, says Now a company there rents
Speaker 17: ubers and and supposed to whenning where the guys actually
Speaker 17: can give you your money back as he as he
Speaker 17: clocks the fear that he has a portion of their
Speaker 17: fear goes directly to a person that's rented the car from.
Speaker 17: There's a company that's set up South Africa and i
Speaker 17: think also in Brazil, and you find clever ways of
Speaker 17: getting much much more out of the satisfaction that the
Speaker 17: customer will get from using your product.
Speaker 3: It's really and it's really it's a really interesting study.
Speaker 3: I mean, there are a lot of companies to look through.
Speaker 3: She must have done a ton of research she has.
Speaker 17: I mean they're they're South Africa, and they're international all sorts,
Speaker 17: and they come from all different areas of business. So
Speaker 17: you've you've really got a lot of things to get
Speaker 17: your mind around and a lot of stimulus. It's it's
Speaker 17: one of those books that really should be read by
Speaker 17: all business people because it's a stimulating will give you
Speaker 17: so many wonderful ideas that you can think of, and
Speaker 17: and behind all of that is this four part model
Speaker 17: that you're trying to change things and you're trying to
Speaker 17: move into someone which was quite different. You really do
Speaker 17: want to want to shake up what's happening in disrupt
Speaker 17: The opposite of a distinguisher is an extinguisher. If you don't,
Speaker 17: if you keep doing what you've always done, wan't, you
Speaker 17: won't get what you voys.
Speaker 3: Had something to read then while you wait for your
Speaker 3: fly Cepha flight and thank you our regular book reviewer
Speaker 3: MD at Gateways Business Consultants. The book is called Distinguishers.
Speaker 3: It's by Professor Sandra vander Mehevi. It's just gone seven point.
Speaker 2: Thirty Her Money Show, How I make my money?
Speaker 3: Well, there are lots of different ways to make money
Speaker 3: in South Africa. As you know in Bally and Clapple
Speaker 3: has done something that many people sort of run away from.
Speaker 3: I think most of us run away from cleaning and dirt.
Speaker 3: She's run towards it, she's described. I don't know and BALI,
Speaker 3: how you feel about this about her as a housekeeper
Speaker 3: and cleaning influencer. Do you ever better? Do you prefer
Speaker 3: I mean, do you prefer something else?
Speaker 14: No?
Speaker 13: I prefer that I prefer to be called a housekeeper.
Speaker 13: I prefer to be called a housekeeper. Actually that's what
Speaker 13: I love.
Speaker 3: Well, good evening, Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: And in case you're wondering how she feels about her work,
Speaker 3: here has a little taste of some of what in
Speaker 3: Bali's done over the years.
Speaker 18: The house kip pa dy of keeping all your trustes
Speaker 18: nice and key one cup of one cup of vinegar
Speaker 18: kills your trust for table like it's running out of fashion.
Speaker 18: Also keeps your TV, your computer, your laptop spring a
Speaker 18: nice how amazing?
Speaker 2: Do not that you do not do the ladd shape.
Speaker 3: However, do the s Patan shape and the plasses will
Speaker 3: be nice.
Speaker 1: And she lack.
Speaker 2: Minds val.
Speaker 11: The house.
Speaker 3: In Bali you pretty much like that in person. I
Speaker 3: made the point that most of us run away from dirt.
Speaker 3: You run towards and I love it. What do you
Speaker 3: see that we don't?
Speaker 13: I see it clean space, A fresh mind when I
Speaker 13: see I kind of even.
Speaker 2: Explain it the way I love it. I see a
Speaker 2: fresh mind.
Speaker 13: When your space, or your place or your home is clean,
Speaker 13: your mind is always sharp. Actually, a clean house is
Speaker 13: a happy home. A tattlers house is a peaceful home.
Speaker 3: You don't think I mean, some people say no I've
Speaker 3: got young children and dogs and things, and I quite
Speaker 3: like the mess. You don't like that at all? No,
Speaker 3: I don't, No, I don't.
Speaker 13: So.
Speaker 3: I mean I was thinking a little bit about what
Speaker 3: could make it so because it's rewarding for you, right, yes,
Speaker 3: And I was thinking, like often you can be at
Speaker 3: work as part of a team and you don't know
Speaker 3: what your contribution is. You can spend a lot of
Speaker 3: time and energy with your children. You don't know if
Speaker 3: that's going to work out. But when you clean, you
Speaker 3: can see the results. The result is that part of it,
Speaker 3: do you think?
Speaker 13: Yes, you can see the results. And you know what
Speaker 13: satisfying is When you get into a room, the walls
Speaker 13: are deity when you finished there, they are so nice
Speaker 13: and clean. There is satisfying When the laundry is dirty,
Speaker 13: when you finished, it smells fresh. That is so satisfying. Shoes,
Speaker 13: especially sneakers. I can go on and on, because a
Speaker 13: clean house is a happy home.
Speaker 3: How did it start for you? I mean, how did
Speaker 3: you end up doing this?
Speaker 13: I end up doing this because it started when I
Speaker 13: was retrained. Actually I was working at a finisher shop.
Speaker 13: Then I was retrainched shop. I sat at home about
Speaker 13: three weeks, my sister in law called me to say
Speaker 13: that in Bali, I've made arrangement with another lady.
Speaker 2: She did not come.
Speaker 13: I'm still waiting at the apartment station. I said, okay,
Speaker 13: hold on, I called, I called, I called, I called,
Speaker 13: everyone a church all around, and one lady said I'm
Speaker 13: going to do it. I said, Mama, you know that
Speaker 13: was twenty fifteen. You know that you're going to work.
Speaker 13: They sleep in and doing that. She said, I'm going
Speaker 13: to do it. Even today, she's still working there. After
Speaker 13: them three weeks or so, everyone was calling me, now, Bali,
Speaker 13: can I have a cleaning lady, Bali, can you come
Speaker 13: and clean for me?
Speaker 2: And my neighbor said I need to clean for hey.
Speaker 2: So she said okay. Everyone was now calling me.
Speaker 13: I said, okay, so this is Bali Shanganisa Bally this
Speaker 13: and yet I know how to clean, I know the diis.
Speaker 2: So it was just a combination.
Speaker 3: How did you find people to actually fill the jobs?
Speaker 3: I mean, was it church networks? Was it something else?
Speaker 13: It was before it was church networks, Before it was
Speaker 13: church networks. Now there are people that are applying to
Speaker 13: be housekeepers. Before it was simply church networks and then
Speaker 13: now every CV you get CV, you get applications.
Speaker 3: I mean, are there some people who you don't pass,
Speaker 3: who you don't you don't accept.
Speaker 2: Yes, not everyone can be a housekeeper. Not everyone one
Speaker 2: can be.
Speaker 3: So when you I mean you're cleaning, you're running a business,
Speaker 3: You're doing some of the cleaning yourself, you film yourself
Speaker 3: doing this. Are you still sort of getting a sense
Speaker 3: of satisfaction when you go to bed every night, not
Speaker 3: just because of the work, because of the work of
Speaker 3: getting other people work, but because of actually the cleaning
Speaker 3: that you're doing yourself. Every time.
Speaker 13: I get satisfied each and every time, especially when I
Speaker 13: come to train.
Speaker 2: When I go to train.
Speaker 13: Housekeepers, I get so satisfied to think that that housekeeper
Speaker 13: has saved their job. She is going to be a
Speaker 13: proper housekeeper, not a perfect one, but getting to detail one.
Speaker 3: I feel happy. What kind of training do you do?
Speaker 2: What does it take train housekeepers?
Speaker 13: I train someone that wants to become a cleaning expect
Speaker 13: someone that loves to clean, someone that is working as
Speaker 13: a housekeeper currently.
Speaker 2: It actually takes for them to know what to do,
Speaker 2: what to use, how to use it so that you
Speaker 2: save time.
Speaker 3: I mean that's saving time is a big thing. You
Speaker 3: can You can get a lot done if you know
Speaker 3: exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 13: Exactly and knowing what to use correctly. You're actually saving
Speaker 13: a lot of time.
Speaker 3: When you are helping people into employment. Sometimes I wonder
Speaker 3: if South African bosses are maybe not very nice. Have
Speaker 3: you come across that A lot? A lot people are
Speaker 3: not the same.
Speaker 13: Same applies with workers like your your housekeepers, They're not
Speaker 13: the same. I normally say that I will train a
Speaker 13: housekeeper to be etarawan. Yeah, I can't train a bet attitude.
Speaker 13: So people are not the same. If you've got bet attitude,
Speaker 13: there's nothing that I can do about it. If you're willing,
Speaker 13: I can definitely.
Speaker 3: Work with you. And some bosses people who want housekeepers.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you ever had to say, well, actually
Speaker 3: i've dealt with you before, I'm not going to do
Speaker 3: I'm not going to help you again.
Speaker 2: No I haven't getten to that point.
Speaker 3: Well, I hope it doesn't happen. The experience of helping
Speaker 3: people into work that must be very empowering because people
Speaker 3: are desperate. I mean people are desperate everywhere. Yes, yes
Speaker 3: it must be.
Speaker 13: It's actually so good it feels so good, especially when
Speaker 13: you help someone to find work to be at wake
Speaker 13: and they last at that work and they make their
Speaker 13: bosses happy. Actually it's two way. The homeowners are happy.
Speaker 13: Sister is happy, we call them sisters. Sisters is happy,
Speaker 13: then you are good.
Speaker 3: You good.
Speaker 2: People are looking for employment.
Speaker 3: Do you employ any men? Yes?
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 3: Do you notice any differences about how it works out?
Speaker 13: Yes, I've noticed. You know what, brothers, I'm not sure
Speaker 13: it's because of their where they're coming. They know that
Speaker 13: if you don't have ten runs, you don't have ten runts.
Speaker 13: Brothers are hard working. They don't come with stories to
Speaker 13: say that tomorrow I'm taking a child to school, or
Speaker 13: I'm sick or what.
Speaker 2: They're hardworking.
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean I'm always told that it's men once
Speaker 3: you are lazy.
Speaker 2: No, actually men who loves to clean.
Speaker 3: And ages. I mean, do you find a difference because
Speaker 3: I mean sometimes older people look at younger people and
Speaker 3: say they don't want to work, you know. I mean
Speaker 3: that's what older people have always said through the ages,
Speaker 3: and that is true. Wow.
Speaker 13: Sometimes Actually the ages, it's tricky house. So you find
Speaker 13: a lady that is fifty five years old, yeah, they
Speaker 13: want to mother you yeah, it's your home. You find
Speaker 13: there is six or twenty seven or the tear lady.
Speaker 13: They don't want to work, actually they don't. They're not
Speaker 13: getting their house working. Yes, how is that being a
Speaker 13: housekeeper or the cleaning business? So it differs, and living
Speaker 13: life experience matters. I think, you know, if you're working
Speaker 13: in a house that's got young children and you don't
Speaker 13: know what young children are, you know, that's a whole
Speaker 13: new level of stuff.
Speaker 3: That's the whole new level.
Speaker 13: And also getting a younger lady that will be willing
Speaker 13: to as young as she is, she's willing to know,
Speaker 13: she's willing to lend, she wants to grow as a housekeeper.
Speaker 3: So something happened during COVID nineteen, right, and I went
Speaker 3: to go and look up the numbers. Earlier today and
Speaker 3: last in the last quarter of last year, Statsis stated
Speaker 3: a survey about domestic workers, and they found that the
Speaker 3: number of people working as domestic workers was sixteen percent
Speaker 3: lower than it wasn't twenty nineteen. So, in other words,
Speaker 3: something like sixteen percent of the people who are working
Speaker 3: as domestic workers in twenty nineteen are not working as
Speaker 3: domestic workers now. And that scares me. Because that's a
Speaker 3: large number of people who usually the only person who
Speaker 3: was working in the family bringing money in. Do you
Speaker 3: still see strong demand? How's demand for your services? People
Speaker 3: phoning you? How's that changed over the years.
Speaker 2: It has changed a lot since from COVID until now.
Speaker 2: I do agree.
Speaker 13: Usually we'd have domestic workers that will go on leaf
Speaker 13: December time. We used to be so busy December time
Speaker 13: is that time because of most of the domestic workers
Speaker 13: are now going on leaf and us the sisters at
Speaker 13: work will come and stand in. So now because of
Speaker 13: since COVID, they're no longer going on leaf. They take
Speaker 13: weekends off instead of the whole December. So maybe it's
Speaker 13: because of money. Instead of the easters, they can take
Speaker 13: weekend off, not the whole month.
Speaker 2: So it yes, the demand has changed.
Speaker 3: People must be finding it tougher. Yes, I think everybody
Speaker 3: seems to be finding it tougher. That must be very tricky.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is.
Speaker 13: Actually has changed a lot compared to what we know
Speaker 13: to say that December you will hire temps.
Speaker 2: Actually we'd start October to train.
Speaker 13: The housekeepers temp because we know that December will be
Speaker 13: so busy.
Speaker 3: Now it's no longer the same sure. Do you expect
Speaker 3: so having domestic workers is it's not something you see
Speaker 3: in most parts of the world. You do see it
Speaker 3: in Southern Africa, and it's very entrenched in our society.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's something that maybe hasn't changed much at
Speaker 3: all since nineteen ninety four. There's a Labor Relations Act,
Speaker 3: there's compensation, there's even a union that I think hasn't
Speaker 3: done very well, but it's really hardly changed. Do you
Speaker 3: think it's ever going to change? Do you think we're
Speaker 3: always going to have this? I mean sometimes I think
Speaker 3: we need it because of the employment it provides. But
Speaker 3: it is a kind of almost uniquely South African thing.
Speaker 2: It will change.
Speaker 13: It will change now Before we used to think that
Speaker 13: domestic workers are just domestic work. Now the domestic workers
Speaker 13: industry is actually a profession, so we need to take
Speaker 13: it professionally, register them for you if for pension finding
Speaker 13: all that.
Speaker 2: It will change.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting sort of to sort of work it
Speaker 3: all out. Do you ever feel a sense of stress
Speaker 3: that people rely on you for their jobs? And when
Speaker 3: I speak to people who run businesses, you know, I
Speaker 3: think that moment where somewhere they're responsible for someone else's
Speaker 3: salaries that must be very scary.
Speaker 2: You do feel stressed. I would stress.
Speaker 13: I will feel stressed because if I don't get clients
Speaker 13: coming in, there's fifteen people or eighty people that are
Speaker 13: not working. So I need to make it a point
Speaker 13: that they keep on waking. Remember it's not only them,
Speaker 13: it's their kids. They are family that are looking upon them.
Speaker 13: So they are looking upon me and their kids are
Speaker 13: looking upon them. So yes, you do feel stressed.
Speaker 3: We're speaking to Embali and Clapo this evening, Housekeeper and
Speaker 3: cleaning Influencers. She's with us through until eight o'clock on
Speaker 3: The Money Show.
Speaker 12: The Money Show with Stephen Crotest is brought to you
Speaker 12: by Absolute Corporate and Investment Bank Drought, sponsor of the
Speaker 12: African Blockchain Report twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: The Money Show, I Make my money.
Speaker 3: Imbaliant clop Or, the housekeeper and cleaning influencer with us
Speaker 3: on The Money Show this evening. All right, and Bali,
Speaker 3: I mean I have a few questions. I have to
Speaker 3: ask about the actual nitty gritty the worst job you've
Speaker 3: ever had to do, where you've opened or you've got
Speaker 3: to the property and smelt the air or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: Are you able to tell us.
Speaker 13: Yes, I'll tell you. The worst job that I've ever
Speaker 13: done is the holder home.
Speaker 3: Yeah, someone there is a holder.
Speaker 13: Actually, when you get there, the cockorroagers I just all over,
Speaker 13: kep waves are just all over, and the smell of
Speaker 13: res urine before you even sit, the smell is there.
Speaker 13: You'll go there, put on your mask, your clouds, and
Speaker 13: you need to get to work.
Speaker 2: You are called to do that. You are called to
Speaker 2: do that, and you need.
Speaker 3: To do it. Do you wear a protective suit when
Speaker 3: you do a job like that? Yes?
Speaker 13: And I make it a point that when I come
Speaker 13: to when I get it home by the front door,
Speaker 13: I need to take out my my trouser before I
Speaker 13: get insight, because you never know, maybe might have some
Speaker 13: cockorroaters or what are they many jobs like that?
Speaker 3: I mean things happen. People maybe pass away and now
Speaker 3: their children come, or the next door neighbor says, or
Speaker 3: something's happened here or whatever. So I mean there must
Speaker 3: be big jobs like that.
Speaker 2: No, they are.
Speaker 13: They are big jobs like that. Sometimes maybe someone has
Speaker 13: passed away. The relatives are getting to that house and
Speaker 13: calling us to say that please did that, and we
Speaker 13: need to sell the house.
Speaker 2: Or we need someone to stay in the house. There's
Speaker 2: so many jobs like.
Speaker 3: That, and you go with a team when you do that.
Speaker 8: Yes, like.
Speaker 2: Tell me I have the a team of.
Speaker 13: That week for that job. There's an eighteam that specifically
Speaker 13: deals with it.
Speaker 3: I would think for the owner or the person asking you,
Speaker 3: they're just going to pay the money. They want to
Speaker 3: walk away. They want to walk away. They'll ask you
Speaker 3: how many hours. You tell them the hours, they'll come
Speaker 3: back afternoon. Yeah, yes, so there's money to be made.
Speaker 3: Are the particular jobs you have to charge a lot for?
Speaker 3: So a job like that would be a lot. Do
Speaker 3: you find that? And maybe there's a small business you
Speaker 3: end up having to charge more for than a private
Speaker 3: home or their particular homes where actually you can just
Speaker 3: you can just tell from the person on the other
Speaker 3: end of the phone, this is going to be a
Speaker 3: big job.
Speaker 2: No, you can't.
Speaker 3: You need to go and quote.
Speaker 13: You need to go and quote for such they'll tell
Speaker 13: you aspects is to say that there's this room that
Speaker 13: was not opened for ten years. There's these rooms the
Speaker 13: windows were not opened for fifteen years.
Speaker 3: You need to go and quote. So removing things like stains, right,
Speaker 3: what are the toughest stains, and I presume they're on
Speaker 3: particular material, So it must be tougher to get red
Speaker 3: wine out of this than it is out of that.
Speaker 13: Okay, removing stains is my heavy place. Actually, I know
Speaker 13: removing stains is my heavy place. Such as when you've
Speaker 13: got stained wine stain on a white tshirt, it's not
Speaker 13: like when you have it on a carpet. Yeah, so
Speaker 13: on a white tshirt you lose high ridge in peroxide
Speaker 13: dish washing liquid and.
Speaker 2: Buy carbonut of salt right dish washing liquid? Yes, correct.
Speaker 13: Now, on on a carpet stain, you need to mix
Speaker 13: hydrogen peroxide, salt by cobonut of soda.
Speaker 2: And a lemon.
Speaker 3: Does it matter how long the stain's been there for, Yes,
Speaker 3: it does.
Speaker 13: The longer the stain was, the harder for the stain
Speaker 13: to it's going to come out. You need to soak
Speaker 13: those products. Yes, still using the same products as long
Speaker 13: as the wine stain is they just soak it.
Speaker 3: Is it ever impossible to get a stain out?
Speaker 13: Ever?
Speaker 2: Impossible?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 16: Really, no, no, no it's not. It's not impossible. As
Speaker 16: long as you know what to use, it's not so
Speaker 16: so if you can't get the stain out. You're the
Speaker 16: one making the mistake.
Speaker 13: You're the one that's making the mistake or not using
Speaker 13: the correct detagent.
Speaker 3: Sure, so can you make it look like new? What
Speaker 3: do you think? I mean a white shirt? Yes, red wine,
Speaker 3: white shirt. You can't make it look exactly how it was, not.
Speaker 13: Exactly how it was. Because maybe, let's say it's not new.
Speaker 13: You can make it clean. Yeah, like I'm always saying,
Speaker 13: what it is?
Speaker 1: Not new?
Speaker 2: However clean.
Speaker 3: When I was younger, you were never allowed to drink
Speaker 3: red wine because of the stain. Now people drink it
Speaker 3: all over the place, even the couches. Yes, the other
Speaker 3: time we were removing wine stain on a white couch.
Speaker 3: That took us two days. Two days. Yes, we have
Speaker 3: to use a hair dryer or something at some point.
Speaker 13: Why did it took us two days? The first day
Speaker 13: we went and soak the couch. The second day we
Speaker 13: went and cleaned the couch. Yes, did red wine get
Speaker 13: easier to clean? Did we just get better at it?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 2: It doesn't.
Speaker 13: It doesn't come out easier. However, we need to use
Speaker 13: the correct ones and also soak it. Like I said,
Speaker 13: we went two days. First day was the soaking second
Speaker 13: day was.
Speaker 3: The sure do people get in touch? So you obviously
Speaker 3: you're a business that wouldn't exist without social media. Yes, no,
Speaker 3: it would, it would, it would, but you'd be very different. Yes,
Speaker 3: I think, I mean yeah, So, I mean it's interesting
Speaker 3: to look at the impact of social media for businesses
Speaker 3: a lot, because I mean, and I keep using this example.
Speaker 3: Lisa Rally was talking to us a while ago. She
Speaker 3: runs health stores, so Jim. So she she started by
Speaker 3: going to people's houses, right, and she always used this example,
Speaker 3: had to put leaflets under people's windscreens. So she'd go
Speaker 3: to a university or something, or a hospital or whatever
Speaker 3: and just put all these leaflets. Now that leaflet is Instagram,
Speaker 3: it's whatever the doctor. Yes, and waking that work must
Speaker 3: be such a big part of your business.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is. It is such a big part of
Speaker 2: the business.
Speaker 13: Before COVID for the TikTok Brainston, it used to be
Speaker 13: flyers standing door to door or to the gate or
Speaker 13: to the robots.
Speaker 2: Now we're no longer doing the flyers as much. Now
Speaker 2: on social media.
Speaker 3: You and I met you half an hour ago. Strike
Speaker 3: me as someone who is not scared to go in
Speaker 3: front of a video camera. Talk on the radio things
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 16: No, I'm not.
Speaker 3: Would it have been much harder if you were, Yes, it.
Speaker 13: Would have been much harder if I if I was
Speaker 13: scared to do it, it was going to be higher.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because I'm not scared to do it, it's actually easier.
Speaker 3: So what I'm saying is that for a small business person,
Speaker 3: someone who wants to start a small business as you have,
Speaker 3: who's a bit shy, they can have a tough time.
Speaker 3: I think nowadays.
Speaker 13: Definitely, definitely, because nowadays you need to stand in front
Speaker 13: of the camera and do your thing.
Speaker 2: So if you shy, you need to come out of
Speaker 2: the shyness.
Speaker 3: And BALI we've got We've got twenty seconds left. Yes,
Speaker 3: you're very confident for the future, lots of demand. Maybe
Speaker 3: pass it on to your family, get them involved as
Speaker 3: you do. Yes, I am very confident to the few.
Speaker 3: As long as we have houses, then we have business
Speaker 3: and red wine and red wine and Confisstine and Berlin Clappell.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Really enjoyed talking to you tonight
Speaker 3: on The Money Show. How she makes her money, the
Speaker 3: housekeeper and cleaning influencer, cleaning up the mess that we make.
Speaker 12: The Money Show with Stephen Krutz is brought to you
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Speaker 12: African Blockchain Report twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Well, US market's looking up mostly today, particularly a lot
Speaker 3: of tech news coming up at record highs as they
Speaker 3: were for the JSE earlier. The Dow Jones are half
Speaker 3: a percent, the Nazek up three quarters of a percent,
Speaker 3: and the S and P five hundred ze point six
Speaker 3: percent at the moment. Lots to come in the next
Speaker 3: twenty four hours or so. We used to talk about
Speaker 3: changing payment systems on the Money Show this evening. Don't
Speaker 3: forget the developing story. Of course, what the presidency has
Speaker 3: now confirmed is the remove rival I think was the
Speaker 3: word of a higher education minister. Good evening, it's eight
Speaker 3: o'clock