Speaker 1: Seven notes.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the best of The Money Show.
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Speaker 4: Welcome to the Best Bits of the Money Show, a
Speaker 4: digestive some of the most important insights, thoughts, comments and
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Speaker 4: for The Money Show to start. Some of the news
Speaker 4: stories that really did dominate the week, obviously, the fact
Speaker 4: that the US President Donald Trump saying he'll impose a
Speaker 4: thirty percent tariff on all of our imports to the
Speaker 4: US from the first of August really being the big story,
Speaker 4: had a big market reaction to that, and of course
Speaker 4: in the middle of that, no one really knows what's
Speaker 4: actually going to happen come the end of the month.
Speaker 4: The police Minister Sincerome Clooney facing serious claims that he's
Speaker 4: involved in a criminal syndicate. They were made the claims
Speaker 4: came strangely from the a provincial Police Commissioner in Kwa
Speaker 4: zul Ntel and plantlam Guanazi. That's of course for the
Speaker 4: President to act on that. He's promised that he will
Speaker 4: and that it'll be over this weekend, so very much
Speaker 4: worth just paying attention to that and then discovery. The
Speaker 4: government employees' Medical Scheme and med Scheme have been accused
Speaker 4: of acting unfairly and in a racially discriminatory manner towards
Speaker 4: black healthcare providers. This came from an independent panel that
Speaker 4: was formed on behalf of the Medical Aid Schemes, the
Speaker 4: Councilful Medical Schemes that's been looking at this. The Medical
Speaker 4: Aid Scheme is very very angry in their response to this.
Speaker 4: Tonight we bring you a mixture of stories from the
Speaker 4: world of money from the week that has been this
Speaker 4: week's episode of Your Business. Book review for Your Sadiki,
Speaker 4: author of Hubris Maximus, The Shattering of Elon Musk, looking
Speaker 4: at some of the big controversy's Musker has been involved
Speaker 4: in and how he almost seems to court trouble. Sadiki
Speaker 4: has a thought provoking perspective on Musk's public persona I think.
Speaker 5: I mean, we've seen the proof kind of play out
Speaker 5: regarding his dispute with the President of the United States.
Speaker 5: We've seen sort of the proof of the idea, I suppose.
Speaker 5: I think the book gives readers a preview of the
Speaker 5: way that these spats played out with regulators, as you mentioned,
Speaker 5: or safety investigators or officials at you know, every seemingly
Speaker 5: every possible level of government or official life. You know,
Speaker 5: Musk would engage in what seemed like at times petty
Speaker 5: disputes or disputes that were not necessarily helpful to his businesses,
Speaker 5: but you know they were to advance, you know, what
Speaker 5: he believed was right. And we've seen this dynamic now
Speaker 5: play out with a person who some might argue is
Speaker 5: the most powerful in the world. And you know that
Speaker 5: attitude of Musks extends even to the President Lency of
Speaker 5: the United States.
Speaker 2: Your detail.
Speaker 4: In one account, there was an investigation into one of
Speaker 4: his cars that was involved in an accident, and it
Speaker 4: really mattered because it was about the sort of quote
Speaker 4: unquote auto driving feature of a Tesla. Right, and he's
Speaker 4: speaking to I think it's you call it the National
Speaker 4: Traffic Safety Board in the US. He's actually being interviewed
Speaker 4: formally over the phone by an investigator, and halfway through
Speaker 4: he gets so annoyed that he just put the phone down.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's an astonishing sort of insight into his character, right.
Speaker 5: I mean, in companies you know, who have been under
Speaker 5: the microscope and you know, this type of scrutiny from
Speaker 5: the National Transportation Safety Board have obviously, you know, reacted,
Speaker 5: not reacted positively right to those types of investigations. But
Speaker 5: the seeming breach of the established protocols to conduct this
Speaker 5: kind of investigation, and the lack of recognition of the goal,
Speaker 5: which you know, for the NTSB at that point, seemed
Speaker 5: to be gathering information in the interest of advancing safety
Speaker 5: at you know, at any cost, even if it has
Speaker 5: to be an uncomfortable conversation. You know, that lack of
Speaker 5: recognition from Musk was evident early on. You know, he
Speaker 5: just does not want to play that game if it's
Speaker 5: going to result in you know, discomfort, unexpected or unwanted scrutiny,
Speaker 5: or potentially get in the way of his broader ambitions.
Speaker 4: There's been acres of what we used to say newsprint,
Speaker 4: but by which I mean discussion here in commentary about
Speaker 4: whether part of Elon Musk's character in the ways behaved
Speaker 4: in the US is because of his upbringing here, and
Speaker 4: whether it's a sign of maybe I don't know, as
Speaker 4: the sort of time in which he was growing up,
Speaker 4: a sign of disrespectable authority, or maybe just feeding that
Speaker 4: he's better than everyone else. That doesn't seem to be
Speaker 4: a big feature of your book necessarily, but I mean,
Speaker 4: do you think that's I mean, dude, do you think
Speaker 4: of Americans.
Speaker 2: See it like that?
Speaker 4: That he's like that because he's from him?
Speaker 5: I think I have encountered that attitude obviously, as you mentioned,
Speaker 5: you know, it's not a feature you know, of discussion
Speaker 5: in the book, but I do think it occurs to
Speaker 5: people that you know, maybe the specific conditions of Musk's
Speaker 5: upbringing and some of what I do go into, you know,
Speaker 5: the bullying he faced as a child, or you know,
Speaker 5: his family life. You know, this idea of competition, of
Speaker 5: you know, a zero sum game. You know, like these
Speaker 5: things factoring into his business and you know, managerial style.
Speaker 5: It's not it's not like a you know, for completely
Speaker 5: foreign idea. Do Americans view it that way? I think
Speaker 5: certainly this question came up at a time when the
Speaker 5: Trump administration was looking to taken immigrants from South Africa.
Speaker 4: It's, you know, the issues around Twitter, around X. And
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm someone who years ago used to love
Speaker 4: X and now haven't tweeted for over a year just
Speaker 4: because he seems to have destroyed it. And maybe it
Speaker 4: was heading that way anyway. But at one point, you say,
Speaker 4: he sent an email to employees that they had to
Speaker 4: commit to quite enjoyed this phrase hardcore Twitter. Aston interesting
Speaker 4: thing to say, but the writing was on the wall.
Speaker 4: He was going to turn X into what it is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, and this is another area where there
Speaker 5: seems to be a principle at play. It's this free
Speaker 5: speech absolutism, free speech maximalism. You know, let's welcome back
Speaker 5: individuals who or accounts whose suspension Musk objected to. But then,
Speaker 5: as the book lays out, there were times when there
Speaker 5: seemed to be arbitrary decision making that worked in Musk's favor,
Speaker 5: where you know, there were accounts that were you know,
Speaker 5: not necessarily Musk's favorite, who were subjected to discipline, were
Speaker 5: not you know, accepted on the platform. If you look
Speaker 5: at journalists in particular, if you look at an account
Speaker 5: that was tracking the location of Musk's private jet and
Speaker 5: the treatment of that account. So for all of the
Speaker 5: discussion that Twitter then became this cesspool and it was
Speaker 5: in the interest of free speech. There were now questions
Speaker 5: about whether Musk was actually abiding by the tenant that
Speaker 5: he laid out, which was free speech absolutism.
Speaker 4: There's a quote that there's a graveyard of his enemies.
Speaker 4: It's a quote described to him. Actually, there is a
Speaker 4: long list of people who've gone up against him, and
Speaker 4: most of them have kind of been flattened. How's he
Speaker 4: been able to run over so many people so strong?
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously he is clever. I mean, let's just
Speaker 4: accept that. But there must be something more to it.
Speaker 4: There's a force of personality.
Speaker 5: I think that is an area where the comparisons to
Speaker 5: President Trump seems strongest. Right, these are individuals who repeatedly
Speaker 5: have not faced the same consequences as you know, comparable
Speaker 5: individuals in their positions would, Right, And so how has
Speaker 5: Musk been able to, you know, I suppose get away
Speaker 5: with it all? He has this platform and he now
Speaker 5: owned there's a platform that he now owns which allows
Speaker 5: him tremendous influence. He is also the richest person in
Speaker 5: the world, and for a time he was close ally
Speaker 5: and you know, key advisor to the US president. So
Speaker 5: it's just an illustration of the power and the concentrated
Speaker 5: power that he has commanded.
Speaker 4: I was a little bit surprised that. I mean, look,
Speaker 4: like everybody, we kind of expected to bust up between
Speaker 4: Musk and Trump. But on all things, the issue of
Speaker 4: US government debt, it's not sexy, it's not interesting, it's
Speaker 4: very important. Musk may actually be on the right side
Speaker 4: of the argument. Do you think this was a relationship
Speaker 4: that they were just looking for the right rock to
Speaker 4: break it on?
Speaker 5: Not necessarily, And I take the point, but not necessarily
Speaker 5: because if you look at Musk's history, you know, when
Speaker 5: he has a goal in mind, and you know, there
Speaker 5: can be arguments on whether that is the right goal,
Speaker 5: whether that is the righteous thing to do, whether it's
Speaker 5: you know, morally the correct principle, But when he has
Speaker 5: a goal in mind, it is difficult to deter him
Speaker 5: from that specific goal. And that's a personality trait that
Speaker 5: I like to think is you know, laid out repeatedly
Speaker 5: within the book that you know, if he is focused
Speaker 5: on one aspect of the company or one of the
Speaker 5: areas of technology that he's overseeing. You know, he cannot
Speaker 5: be deterred from that easily. And you know, cutting federal
Speaker 5: spending and reducing the national debt was one of the
Speaker 5: tenants he laid out. Of course, people wonder like, why
Speaker 5: why is he so focused on that? He's hinted at
Speaker 5: like it's in service of this other goal to you know,
Speaker 5: get humanity to mars. So if he sees it as
Speaker 5: genuinely obstructing the goal, it stands to reason that, all right,
Speaker 5: he is now going to you know, mount to fight
Speaker 5: against it.
Speaker 4: He's not going to change course, is he. He's not
Speaker 4: going to change behavior. It's worked for him. That's how
Speaker 4: he'll see it. He's clever and better than everyone else.
Speaker 4: And I mean, this is how he is.
Speaker 5: I mean, I was frankly a bit surprised that he
Speaker 5: dialed back his attacks on Trump, and you know, he
Speaker 5: even said, you know, he regretted that some of it
Speaker 5: seemed to have gone too far. That felt like recognition
Speaker 5: that you know, maybe this was not a fight that
Speaker 5: that you know, would serve his best interests. But yeah, no,
Speaker 5: in general, he is He's not someone to back down.
Speaker 4: That was for hisz Sidiki, the author of Hoopers Maxims
Speaker 4: The Shattering of Elon Musk, a sharp and critically on
Speaker 4: Musk and the controversies around him. Seven Notes is the
Speaker 4: best of the Money Show from this week. On How
Speaker 4: I Make My Money This week, Susie Goodman, the executive
Speaker 4: director of Strauss and Co, sharing her insights into really
Speaker 4: an astonishing journey that she's had moving in the end
Speaker 4: to managing Africa's leading art auction house. Someone who is
Speaker 4: an art auction N's had a really interesting ride over
Speaker 4: the way, and particularly interesting in some of what she
Speaker 4: learned in other countries. Susie Goodman, an amazing story.
Speaker 1: Unluckily, I also have a few genes in my family,
Speaker 1: and both my mother studied art in Johannesburg and my
Speaker 1: dad was a wildlife photographer. So I suppose the apple
Speaker 1: didn't fall very far from the tree, but they certainly
Speaker 1: weren't involved in auctions.
Speaker 4: Okay. And at the time when you started studying history
Speaker 4: of art, did you think this is what I was
Speaker 4: going to do because there aren't many ways to make
Speaker 4: money with that degree.
Speaker 1: Oh, you're absolutely right, And now I actually also did
Speaker 1: take geography, just as a sideline because I thought maybe
Speaker 1: I better branch out a bit. But I was very lucky.
Speaker 1: I realized that actually there are many different facets to
Speaker 1: the art world, and auctioneering is actually something that lots
Speaker 1: of people don't talk about or don't know about, and
Speaker 1: particularly in this part of the world, the secretary market
Speaker 1: is a small market. So I was lucky. I did
Speaker 1: a post graduate degree that taught me about the magic
Speaker 1: of the auction world and how you can sell anything.
Speaker 1: And I did think that I would be a jewelry specialist,
Speaker 1: which is as much as I love jewelry, I like
Speaker 1: too many things now, so I think maybe I'm more
Speaker 1: of a generalist.
Speaker 4: Okay, So I mean the number of times that I've
Speaker 4: seen in auction, I haven't seen many. I do remember
Speaker 4: as a child watching someone on the side of a
Speaker 4: road just auctioning whatever it was that they had, and
Speaker 4: I found it fascinating. There's clearly something that you find
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's a vibe a feeling, but
Speaker 4: something mesmerizing about a good auction.
Speaker 1: There certainly is. And actually, just as a sideline story,
Speaker 1: I was asked by as you know, which is a
Speaker 1: training institute in this country to help be involved in
Speaker 1: training auctionais. And I had to say that I experienced
Speaker 1: the wide variety of auctioneers. So you have cattle auctioneers,
Speaker 1: car auctioneers, property auctioneers, art auctioneers, and I sometimes think
Speaker 1: that's quite fun because we talk very differently. So there
Speaker 1: was a wonderful Zimbarbie auctionnaire who sell tobacco, and he
Speaker 1: started before me, and he was going but I like that,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my goodness, and I had
Speaker 1: to come after him and go to two thousand, two thousand,
Speaker 1: two hundred, two thousand, five hundred. So it was quite amusing.
Speaker 1: But the thing that grabs me about an auction is
Speaker 1: is that it's the culmination of an amazing journey of
Speaker 1: finding artworks to sell on behalf of the seller, and
Speaker 1: obviously presenting them to the future buyer, and then working
Speaker 1: with a buyer and putting and placing them in a collection.
Speaker 1: But the bit about auctions that rarely rarely grab me
Speaker 1: is that you don't raally know what's going to happen
Speaker 1: on the night, because yes, you've got a value, yes
Speaker 1: you've got a reserve, yes you've got people interested, But
Speaker 1: if you have all of the ingredients and you've got
Speaker 1: two or three people who land up fighting for it.
Speaker 1: You can the numbers get bigger, and the excitement gets bigger,
Speaker 1: and the adrenaline gets drive faster, And I think that's
Speaker 1: the bit I just love that magic, is that the
Speaker 1: ultimate price is defined when the hammer falls. But I
Speaker 1: like that drama. I love the fact that you don't
Speaker 1: know who's going to be on the phone or who's
Speaker 1: going to be in the room. So for me, it's
Speaker 1: a it's an amazing privilege to be able to sell
Speaker 1: art this way.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's interesting. That's actually quite a few movies that,
Speaker 4: now that I think about it, have scenes involving auctions
Speaker 4: because of that inherent drama. It's it's actually, I imagine
Speaker 4: being part of it is far better than watching anyone
Speaker 4: trying to create a fictional account of it.
Speaker 1: It absolutely is. And I'm sure you realize that a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago we sold the painting for thirty one
Speaker 1: million rand, and I promise you could have heard not
Speaker 1: only a pin drop, but you could hear everyone inhaling
Speaker 1: as the price grew, and exhaling as an expert in
Speaker 1: bid and it was just it was you can't make
Speaker 1: it up. It's the most extraord it's the most extraordinary sensation.
Speaker 1: But also it is you know, it's full of it's
Speaker 1: like a performance, but it's not really a performance because
Speaker 1: it's real life. So I think that's that's the bit
Speaker 1: that it does capt you. It is evocative, So you're right.
Speaker 1: There are lots of movies that have very good looking
Speaker 1: people taking auctions, and there tends to be sort of
Speaker 1: a Thomas crom af Fair moment when something gets pinched
Speaker 1: off the wall. But luckily for us that doesn't happen
Speaker 1: too often, so it's you know, but it does. It
Speaker 1: does create the sort of magic of I suppose prestige
Speaker 1: and celebrities and numbers. But I often remind people that
Speaker 1: we auction things as just as much passion for a
Speaker 1: thousand round as we do from aly a million round.
Speaker 1: Million round gets a bit scary, but we do sell
Speaker 1: all varieties of pricing by auction.
Speaker 4: And I mean there is there is as much excitement
Speaker 4: when something that's relatively at relatively low cost is suddenly
Speaker 4: increasing in value as opposed to something you expect to
Speaker 4: go for a lot. I mean, in a way, something
Speaker 4: you expect to go for a thousand round going for
Speaker 4: two thousand it's a lot more exciting than something you
Speaker 4: expect to go from going for one too.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and actually the bit that Steven that sometimes is
Speaker 1: really humbling bit is that because we deal with the
Speaker 1: people who's selling, often we know the story about why
Speaker 1: someone's selling, and so you can see the person who's
Speaker 1: brought the work in for a valiation day and perhaps
Speaker 1: they're very desperate for some money, or they're trying to
Speaker 1: pay their university fees, or they're trying to put a
Speaker 1: deposit down in a house, and they've got this sort
Speaker 1: of that whole of works of art that they're hoping
Speaker 1: they can realize a little bit of money towards those dreams.
Speaker 1: And then those works start climbing and the share amazement
Speaker 1: when somebody they're getting a thousand round and they get
Speaker 1: two and a half thousand rand, or they're thinking something
Speaker 1: which we valued at five thousand round, suddenly people are
Speaker 1: fighting over it and we sell it for twenty five
Speaker 1: thousand round. Those moments are so incredible and are so joyful.
Speaker 1: There is also the sad side when someone is desperately
Speaker 1: needing it and then something doesn't sell, and that's hard
Speaker 1: because that also the reality of business. Not everything finds
Speaker 1: a home as much as we try to find homes.
Speaker 1: But it's that sort of emotion of you're not quite sure.
Speaker 1: We say it's this value, and then it goes for
Speaker 1: the right amount or what goes above it, and that
Speaker 1: moment is also quite exciting.
Speaker 4: Are there certain things that you that you find this
Speaker 4: happens to this sort of level of excitement than others?
Speaker 4: And I'm presuming in my own head, I'm thinking that
Speaker 4: this must happen to works of art where you get
Speaker 4: a much higher price, a much more exciting auction than
Speaker 4: almost anything else. I mean, yes, maybe they're fancy cars
Speaker 4: or elon musk s mug or something that I'm presuming
Speaker 4: it's art where you're more likely to have that happen.
Speaker 1: I think you're right, because there is you know, as
Speaker 1: a lot of people know, art is not a you know,
Speaker 1: it's not bread or milk or your necessities. It's an
Speaker 1: amazing privilege to have a piece of art owner. It
Speaker 1: gives you joy, It gives a different satisfaction to an
Speaker 1: essential necessity. So I think there's which comes with auctions.
Speaker 1: Is that an amazing feeling of I love it. I've
Speaker 1: fallen in love with it. I like it, I want
Speaker 1: to collect it, I need to own it. I would
Speaker 1: love to have it on my wall. So there's emotion
Speaker 1: in it that sometimes it's a little bit less. It's
Speaker 1: very different to maybe somebody who's trying to buy a
Speaker 1: card a second hand auction, because that's probably just a
Speaker 1: pure transactional fact. But the bit that I think the
Speaker 1: bit that is special about those moments in the auction world,
Speaker 1: you have stories, and an artwork keeps that story with
Speaker 1: it because if somebody, for example, bought it from the
Speaker 1: artists and has owned it in their collection for a while,
Speaker 1: and they knew the artists, and they follow on and
Speaker 1: say they've made it for a wedding or they made
Speaker 1: it for a birthday, those stories keep going with the
Speaker 1: picture as much as we can hopefully retell it. Or
Speaker 1: they're a wonderful story about who owned something or it
Speaker 1: was in the collection. As you know, you mentioned somebody
Speaker 1: like David Bowie. All of those things have stories that
Speaker 1: I bought something from a David Bowie's collection. What it
Speaker 1: encourages encourages evocative competitive bidding because you want a slice
Speaker 1: of it and that you don't get when you're doing
Speaker 1: secondhand cards.
Speaker 4: For sure, there is some artwork which is incredibly controversial.
Speaker 4: I can think of example, I spent as a as
Speaker 4: an e WN reporter a couple of days outside a
Speaker 4: gallery which there's the same name that you do very
Speaker 4: controversial artwork, and that I mean that must it must
Speaker 4: have come as a surprise to all involved. Then I
Speaker 4: think it did. But there must be times when you
Speaker 4: look at a piece of work and you think, sure
Speaker 4: there's a controversial story, or it's a controversial piece, or
Speaker 4: the person who created it, or maybe a previous owner
Speaker 4: is now controversial and actually, I don't know if I
Speaker 4: want to touch this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's I think that comes with I
Speaker 1: think that's a very good point, and I think that
Speaker 1: comes with the story of things. And I think the
Speaker 1: one thing that I've learned about the art world is
Speaker 1: that everybody, there's something for everybody, and there's different tastes
Speaker 1: for different people, and there are different genres for different subjects.
Speaker 1: If something has had a you know, for example, an
Speaker 1: artwork that's been damaged, on artwork that has been if
Speaker 1: you take actually which you reported on, if you take
Speaker 1: that artwork that we handle the stolen pioneers in a sense,
Speaker 1: not that could auction it because it belongs to the state.
Speaker 1: But the story behind that is so intriguing. I mean
Speaker 1: it is if it ever came up to auction, it
Speaker 1: would it would increase in value. I mean they say
Speaker 1: in the auction world they are aspects that you always
Speaker 1: put into too value, which is the collection that comes
Speaker 1: from how good a piece, what condition is, in what
Speaker 1: period it was painted. You know, with the wow factor,
Speaker 1: that work would have a wow factor, and it would
Speaker 1: it would cause a stir of excitement because it has
Speaker 1: such an intriguing story with it. You're right, not every
Speaker 1: story you want, not every story you can you necessary.
Speaker 1: Maybe you want to pass on on that sense, but
Speaker 1: you also have to realize that the artwork is still
Speaker 1: a wonderful artwork, whether you like it or not. Might
Speaker 1: not be your taste, but it might appeal to somebody else.
Speaker 1: They tend to I think that's what's quite nice about art.
Speaker 1: It tends to find the homes that needs to go to.
Speaker 1: But I do find the story intriguing. I mean when
Speaker 1: you when you meet somebody who inherited something or got
Speaker 1: it from the artist, or I mean the other day,
Speaker 1: because we sold the treat Chikof. There was another client
Speaker 1: who had a tree Chikov they sold and they bought
Speaker 1: it directly from the artist. And her husband died, so
Speaker 1: she phuned up Tritchikoff and said should I sell it?
Speaker 1: And he said absolutely not. You must wait until I'm
Speaker 1: really really dead. And you know, those kind of stories
Speaker 1: are quite fun, but they make it sort of I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's quite nice. If you had it on
Speaker 1: your wall, you could retell it so that. Maybe I
Speaker 1: like the auction world too, because it's about people. Somebody
Speaker 1: maybe art, somebody's going to own it, somebody will earn it.
Speaker 1: So I guess it's the cycle of life. Really.
Speaker 4: It's an astonishing comment by Tritchikov to say that, but
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm afraid to say probably correct, Yes it is.
Speaker 4: When you started, you actually went over season, you went
Speaker 4: to Christie's and their renowned auctioneers in the UK. Were
Speaker 4: there many I mean, I can't think of out the
Speaker 4: places really in South Africa that you could have learned
Speaker 4: art auctioneering. I mean, there aren't many options to sort
Speaker 4: of get into that business.
Speaker 1: No, it's a much smaller pool here. I was very
Speaker 1: lucky to go and work at Christie's, and I was
Speaker 1: very lucky to try. You have to go through an
Speaker 1: auctioneering course. I was a little bit cheeky because we
Speaker 1: went on the court and we were bidding, and we
Speaker 1: were learning how to breathe and to do the increments.
Speaker 1: And at Christie's they run the auction book, so where
Speaker 1: the auctioneer has the estimates and the reserves and the bids,
Speaker 1: they run it in code, so they use in case
Speaker 1: somebody stole the auctionaires book, they wouldn't be able to
Speaker 1: read the increments of the people's bids that have been left,
Speaker 1: so they use a sort of code, which is you
Speaker 1: have to learn and then you have to do a
Speaker 1: practice and now all of these auctioneers looking at you.
Speaker 1: And when I started auctioneering, there were only four women
Speaker 1: globally that were auctionaeers. So it was quite fun to
Speaker 1: break some of those barriers. But I was a little
Speaker 1: bitteeky because the auctionnaire who was sort of running that
Speaker 1: day said to me, I don't quite understand what you're saying.
Speaker 1: So I said, oh, which bit? He said, are you
Speaker 1: saying the bid is on the left or are you
Speaker 1: saying the bid is in the lift and so I thought,
Speaker 1: oh my goodness. So I said, no, I think maybe
Speaker 1: it's my act. So he said, oh, oh, oh, yes, perhaps,
Speaker 1: and I said, now, an auction entre, an international company,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be good to have a South African accent.
Speaker 1: So I was a bit cheeky, but luckily I was
Speaker 1: able to do it, and it was the first auction
Speaker 1: I took. I remember standing in the rostrum and South
Speaker 1: Kensington was a sort of part of the Christisburg had
Speaker 1: King Street in South Kensington, and South Kensington had this
Speaker 1: wonderful atmosphere of selling house sale contents and silver and furniture,
Speaker 1: so it was quite There was quite a lot of lots,
Speaker 1: and they let me cut my teeth on a silver
Speaker 1: sale and I remember standing up and going, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 1: this is real money. Because until you get to that moment,
Speaker 1: which is the culmination between the buyer and the seller,
Speaker 1: it salt of his numbers. But suddenly the reality of like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is really a lot of money. But it was
Speaker 1: only fifty pounds, but still, I think the nerves and
Speaker 1: what I was doing was like oh, but the fun
Speaker 1: part about it is that you get your style, you
Speaker 1: get your flow, I talk fast, as you know, and
Speaker 1: so I often got the sales that have a lot
Speaker 1: of loss, so you had to get through three hundred lots.
Speaker 1: And they would say, seesue, you do it because you
Speaker 1: can talk quickly. But when we were training, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure other auctionaiers that maybe have experiences too, one of
Speaker 1: the people who are training I said, you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: in the middle of an auction, you can because you
Speaker 1: can be up there for two or three hours. They said,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes your mind just wonders, and you can
Speaker 1: find yourself thinking, oh, my goodness, you know what's for dinner?
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking that's impossible because there's too many
Speaker 1: things between the increments and the clients and the telephone
Speaker 1: bids and the code. And then I suddenly one auction
Speaker 1: was standing there going oh, should we have chicken? Or
Speaker 1: maybe we should have beef. So you do find your
Speaker 1: mind is working fast, but it can wonder. But the
Speaker 1: tempo is important. So as I mentioned earlier, you know,
Speaker 1: cattle auctionaires have a different tempo. We do too. When
Speaker 1: you're selling something like wine, you definitely go faster than
Speaker 1: when you're selling you know, big tentridge or an erma
Speaker 1: Stern in the millions that you have to you have
Speaker 1: to send the room, and you have to use the
Speaker 1: style of bidding an increment that suit what you're selling.
Speaker 4: There's so much to it, all right. That was Susie Goodman,
Speaker 4: the executive director of Strauss and Co, sharing her expertise
Speaker 4: and experience in the world of selling art.
Speaker 2: Seven notes.
Speaker 4: You're listening to the money shows the best bids you
Speaker 4: Consumer Ninja Wendy Nola this week taking a dive into
Speaker 4: the hidden dangers of cell phone contracts and particularly what
Speaker 4: happens when your contract comes to an end and you
Speaker 4: haven't read the fine print and you don't actually do
Speaker 4: anything about it. You do have to actually look at
Speaker 4: that and be very very careful about what can happen.
Speaker 3: Okay, so they tooish, as you mentioned canceling, and that's
Speaker 3: one of the big problems because many people don't realize
Speaker 3: that the contracts don't actually automatically contract cancel. Rather, you
Speaker 3: have to still give thirty days of a month's notice
Speaker 3: for that to actually happen. But I'm talking about the
Speaker 3: scenario where people decide that they not go to cancel,
Speaker 3: and they're not going to you either, They're just going
Speaker 3: to let the contract carry on in a month to
Speaker 3: month basis, so they're getting the same deal, very similar
Speaker 3: in most cases historically, and then they don't have the
Speaker 3: commitment the strings. They can cancel it any time with
Speaker 3: thirty days notice and no penalties. Right, So that's the
Speaker 3: benefit of that. But what's happening is that people are
Speaker 3: finding sometimes many months later, they think they're still paying
Speaker 3: the same amount by debit order every month, and then
Speaker 3: they found out, as Farosa of Durban did, that actually
Speaker 3: the monthly subscription had gone up in her case fivefold
Speaker 3: I think if a maths is correct, from one hundred
Speaker 3: and sixty nine random month to around six hundred random months, right.
Speaker 3: And the point is she didn't know, she got no
Speaker 3: notification whatsoever.
Speaker 4: So I mean, okay, so you're paying one hundred and
Speaker 4: sixty nine random months is probably a dartis some are
Speaker 4: relatively cheap. Now the contract ends and then suddenly it
Speaker 4: goes up to six hundred round Now there can't be
Speaker 4: any economical financial justification for that. Well is she told.
Speaker 3: No, there's a justification, as they say, well, they have
Speaker 3: these very promotional discount offers and when the contract period
Speaker 3: to which that applies ends, then the contract if it
Speaker 3: rolls over month to a month, will revert to so
Speaker 3: called standard rates. Obviously, this is a strong arm tactic
Speaker 3: to get people to ask commit to another to your contract,
Speaker 3: because that's what the networks want. They want this commitment
Speaker 3: because it works financially for them. But in terms of
Speaker 3: this case, in for Rose's case, she didn't get any notification.
Speaker 3: And the point is that the Consumer Protection at compels
Speaker 3: companies which offer fixed term contracts such as cell phone
Speaker 3: contracts and gym contracts to contact them. It's very specific
Speaker 3: with than forty to eighty days before the end of
Speaker 3: that contract period and spell out the options and the
Speaker 3: implications of each one. So the idea being if you
Speaker 3: want to cancel, you must do it with you know,
Speaker 3: give us three days notice if you if it's going
Speaker 3: to roll over, this is what's going to happen. It's
Speaker 3: going to go up to six hundred renament and if
Speaker 3: you want to renew year the options well, predictably, the
Speaker 3: self industry is very good at the marketing of their
Speaker 3: new offers, but not so great on the detail of
Speaker 3: you know, the other options. And in this case, and
Speaker 3: this is where it got really interesting, empty ND said
Speaker 3: they did notify for Rosa and bearing in minders is
Speaker 3: a data only contract, but they send to an SMS,
Speaker 3: which they say, in their words, she was unable to
Speaker 3: access right So in other words, she didn't actually get
Speaker 3: any notification and hence the huge bill bill shock.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I do that with a provider. I
Speaker 4: have some card in an iPad for data, and I
Speaker 4: actually would wouldn't have the first clue of how to
Speaker 4: access the SMS. I don't know, I mean presume it
Speaker 4: receives them. I can't imagine why you would use it exactly.
Speaker 3: And I think, and I think the point for me
Speaker 3: is that this must happen in many, many, many cases.
Speaker 3: So when I took up the case with empty End,
Speaker 3: they put things right by crediting the amount of what
Speaker 3: substantial four and a half thousand rand to Forrosa's account,
Speaker 3: being the difference between her so called promotional one sixty
Speaker 3: nine a month and that six hundred random month, which
Speaker 3: had been charged four months before she realized it. And
Speaker 3: they said, we acknowledged this gap in communication and sincerely
Speaker 3: regret the inconvenience caused. We've engaged with Farrosa to explain
Speaker 3: that whatever whatever. But you know, as we say, it's
Speaker 3: it can't be alone case.
Speaker 4: Do we know how many other empty and arta contracts
Speaker 4: are the same awful surprise?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we'd love to know that, wouldn't we. But
Speaker 3: it's not the sort of information that gets shared with
Speaker 3: the media. They did say that notification processes for data
Speaker 3: only subscribers were being reviewed, as I said, to improve transparency.
Speaker 3: And then this is a global thing that happens these
Speaker 3: in promotion, these promotional low subscription fees, and then they
Speaker 3: jump up and they call it promo drop off. But
Speaker 3: I don't know how many people that actually are paying
Speaker 3: for these contracts know that term and the implication of it.
Speaker 3: And that's why we want to talk about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I suppose issues around transparency, right, and
Speaker 4: this is I mean back to the fine print in
Speaker 4: the contract. I mean, yes it's there, Yes, you should
Speaker 4: be able to understand it's actually, in real terms, not
Speaker 4: very transparent. I mean, what's the industry's track record on
Speaker 4: this kind of.
Speaker 3: Well, not good. I have to say. When my own
Speaker 3: Voticon contract was coming to an end about eight months ago,
Speaker 3: I did get an sumes from the network about that,
Speaker 3: but it was really shockingly vague. It said your contract
Speaker 3: will soon come to an end, any discounts will fall away.
Speaker 3: They didn't give me any detail on that, and when
Speaker 3: you know, no dates, nothing like that. So when I
Speaker 3: challenged them, I was told that they use generic messages
Speaker 3: to ensure we comply with their CPA notifications that are
Speaker 3: up for renewal, and that when you upgrade, they give
Speaker 3: you the details. But the point is, what about people
Speaker 3: who aren't upgrading, that are rolling over, that are going
Speaker 3: to get caught by a surprise hike because and the
Speaker 3: act is very specific. It says that the service provider
Speaker 3: in this case that software networks must well before the
Speaker 3: contracts end, notify people of any material changes should they
Speaker 3: choose not to cancel or commit to a new contract.
Speaker 3: So they really are paying a bit fast and loose
Speaker 3: with that requirement. And what I want to do is
Speaker 3: advice is warned people that you you know, if about
Speaker 3: that this can happen, and to be you know, if
Speaker 3: you don't want to have that huge increase act accordingly,
Speaker 3: but if it's if what happened to us that happened
Speaker 3: to you and you didn't get that notice. Specifically data contracts,
Speaker 3: because they say they you know, as they should have
Speaker 3: emailed you, but they're only saying to an sem is,
Speaker 3: if it's happened to you, you are in line for
Speaker 3: a discount, sorry, a refund, just as Farosa was. So
Speaker 3: so go and do those checks.
Speaker 4: I wonder sometimes also now as I get older, you
Speaker 4: know life hacks. They call it when you sign any
Speaker 4: kind of contract. And I've never done this, but it
Speaker 4: would make sense. If you're signing a cell phone contract
Speaker 4: for two years, actually put in your diary or electronic diary,
Speaker 4: which you know survives two years from now, that actually
Speaker 4: you know the month before this is what is going
Speaker 4: to happen, and therefore you need to take action and
Speaker 4: that should maybe get you around some of the trouble.
Speaker 3: Yes, very very good advice. And as is, you know
Speaker 3: that you put it in the month before because if
Speaker 3: you want to cancel, you you have to give them
Speaker 3: that thirty day notice otherwise you end up paying for
Speaker 3: another month that you really would prefer not to have.
Speaker 4: That was your consumer Ninja Wendy Nola. The often overlooked
Speaker 4: risks associated in cell phone contracts, The Best of The
Speaker 4: Money Show and seven two your shape shift to this
Speaker 4: week you Huntcots of the CEO of agri Esa. He
Speaker 4: reflected on his career a journey in is leadership philosophy
Speaker 4: in the agriculture sector, looking at what he did in Mozambique,
Speaker 4: what he did in the agricultural sector as a banker,
Speaker 4: and now of course leading agri essay.
Speaker 2: Now listen through truly on farming. My great grandfather was
Speaker 2: an Italian out of Italy and he was he was,
Speaker 2: I think the large farmer for us. And then on
Speaker 2: my mom's side, they grew up in Zambia, so they
Speaker 2: went to go and farm in Zambia and my father
Speaker 2: was also a farmer. So truly a farming community, a
Speaker 2: typical Afrikaans speaking Buddha farming community.
Speaker 4: So were you growing up on a farm yourself?
Speaker 2: Yes, I did, and I also farmed myself for seven years.
Speaker 4: Okay, I mean I started by talking about the passion
Speaker 4: that people have for farming. It seems to me to
Speaker 4: be something quite different to everything else. And I'm not
Speaker 4: sure why that is. I don't know if you have
Speaker 4: a kind of rational explanation for something that I think
Speaker 4: is is really not about rationality, It's about love and passion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it starts in a community. If I
Speaker 2: can recall my own life, you grow up in a
Speaker 2: farming community, not knowing anything else than farming, and you
Speaker 2: you kind of you live yourself into this dream of
Speaker 2: being a farmer one day. So I think it's something
Speaker 2: that is stimulated by being involved in farming from a
Speaker 2: very young age. And also I think it's like minded
Speaker 2: people being together in a community and just installing it
Speaker 2: into a little kit and into people. So that's the
Speaker 2: one thing. The other thing is I think that the
Speaker 2: love for nature and the love for what we do
Speaker 2: is not known. If I if I recall when I
Speaker 2: travel overseas and I meet, well, I meet a lot
Speaker 2: of farmers. It's different in South Africa. I think the
Speaker 2: passion we have, I think we are conservationists. We love nature.
Speaker 2: It's something it's so deeply embedded in us that and
Speaker 2: I think that's where that passion comes from.
Speaker 4: I often think, and in fact, my children have asked me,
Speaker 4: how is it possible for someone to be a doctor
Speaker 4: that looks after ill children? And I always say to them, well,
Speaker 4: you must have you must see children in the most
Speaker 4: awful way, but you must also watch them walk out
Speaker 4: of the hospital because you've cured them. As a farmer,
Speaker 4: you must watch crops grow, animals grow from nothing to
Speaker 4: you know, mighty stalks of maize or you know, very
Speaker 4: valuable beef and things like that. There must be something
Speaker 4: very rewarding in.
Speaker 2: That Stephen I could recall as a kid that my
Speaker 2: father would take me when they start after the first
Speaker 2: trains to plow, to walk behind the plow and look
Speaker 2: at the little birds, the eggots coming in and looking
Speaker 2: for a little wounds. I could remember him putting his
Speaker 2: hands into the soil and then literally it would he
Speaker 2: would touch the soil, and he would he would bring
Speaker 2: it to me and say, can you smell it. So
Speaker 2: so that reward is and I think it never goes
Speaker 2: away if I not farming. Now, if I travel and
Speaker 2: I see a little lamb, or I see, say, for instance,
Speaker 2: goats and little goats just just dropping around, I will
Speaker 2: stop and have a look and enjoy the moment. Thereof
Speaker 2: that reward is so deeply embedded with us. I think
Speaker 2: another thing is the enjoyment we have for nature. And
Speaker 2: so if if even if I'm in the city and
Speaker 2: it starts to rain and I can smell the rain,
Speaker 2: it brings so much memories and so much joy back
Speaker 2: to us, and I think that's the the reward that
Speaker 2: we live with if we are farmers.
Speaker 4: You did spend quite a lot of your career in banks,
Speaker 4: and I mean you were at Absay, you were at
Speaker 4: first Round in Mozambique, and you were in Mozambique at
Speaker 4: a very interesting time. That economy was beginning to grow,
Speaker 4: it was opening up. Our country was now changing and
Speaker 4: changing quite quickly. What was that like, I mean, I
Speaker 4: presume you were kind of helping to finance that expansion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, listen, I learned me and to be a
Speaker 2: corporate banker, just to realize that corporate banking mostam Big
Speaker 2: is a bit different than South Africa. It was just
Speaker 2: the start of I would say, the new new phase
Speaker 2: of mosam Big to day is totally different than what
Speaker 2: we had. I always refer back to to the gratitude
Speaker 2: I have for abs that they did send me to
Speaker 2: Africa and I had the opportunity to go to Africa.
Speaker 2: If if if I look back in my career, it's
Speaker 2: it was one of the best times for us as
Speaker 2: a family. It was one of the best times for
Speaker 2: me as an individual in banking. I've learned so much,
Speaker 2: and it's humble people, it's people with a different mindset,
Speaker 2: it's people with a different outlook in life, which enriched
Speaker 2: my life a lot. And then I think what humbled
Speaker 2: me the most is what they made of what they had,
Speaker 2: and they literally had nothing, and how they create something
Speaker 2: about out of something that is so small and South
Speaker 2: Africa would be insignificant. And I've learned that you work
Speaker 2: with what you have and you turn it into gold.
Speaker 2: And that's what the mosen Beacons told me. So I've
Speaker 2: listened my life of my heart that the mozen Beacon
Speaker 2: experience we had as a family living there was absolutely
Speaker 2: one of the most amazing experiences in my life.
Speaker 4: Were you doing a lot of sort of agricultural deals.
Speaker 4: I'm presuming there. I mean, that's one of the things
Speaker 4: that Mozenbiak really has to offer. I think most of
Speaker 4: the bananas I've eaten in the last five years come
Speaker 4: from there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Listen, we did a lot of deals in and Mozambique.
Speaker 2: A lot of South African farmers popped over the border
Speaker 2: from Kumarti side and started to farm in Mozambique, and
Speaker 2: we funded whatever we could. I could remember even that crocodiles.
Speaker 2: And the guy who approached me to fund the crocodile project,
Speaker 2: he came and we lost his one arm and I
Speaker 2: before I couldn't even ask he said. He looked at
Speaker 2: me and said, no, no, dunstress, wasn't a crocodile. I lost
Speaker 2: it in an accident, so don't go there. So we
Speaker 2: lterally funded whatever we could. Fish was a big one.
Speaker 2: Bananas big. It's a big, big, big business and it's
Speaker 2: a it's a bicycle business where they sell to thirty
Speaker 2: ton trucks of bananas every day on bicycles. I think
Speaker 2: one of the largest egg farms I've seen, including South
Speaker 2: Africa was a Mozmbique. Broilers also a big, big business
Speaker 2: of Mozenbique. It's not that big in agriculture Africa, but
Speaker 2: big businesses in Mozambique doing doing agriculture. Sugarcane is also
Speaker 2: a big one refined sugar, so it was also one
Speaker 2: of our bigger clients in Mozambique.
Speaker 4: I'm presuming that you one of one of the reasons
Speaker 4: you did it, one of the reasons you were asked
Speaker 4: to do it was your farming background. Right, This kind
Speaker 4: of banking is I'm presuming different to your santin merger
Speaker 4: and acquisition.
Speaker 2: It was to develop farming. I think that we at
Speaker 2: that stage APPSO was still a novice and doing business
Speaker 2: in Africa. So SO farming was for us a big,
Speaker 2: big focus. And I think the reason why I got
Speaker 2: the job was because of my farming background and what
Speaker 2: we did with farming, especially in agro processing. Maybe just
Speaker 2: if I may a concept about Mozambique. A lot of
Speaker 2: people ask me why did I go to Mozambique because
Speaker 2: it was a very poor country. I think it was
Speaker 2: the fifth poorest on Earth at that stage, and why
Speaker 2: would you go with your family to Mozambique. Now, the
Speaker 2: reality was that a lot of my my counterparts went
Speaker 2: overseas to Australia and New Zealand and and we just
Speaker 2: felt we want to stay in Africa. We want to
Speaker 2: stay in South Africa. And what I did realize is
Speaker 2: that I don't understand Africa. Although we South Africans, we
Speaker 2: do not have that much knowledge about Africa. So I
Speaker 2: choose Africa. I choose to go to Africa, and I'm
Speaker 2: grateful for the opportunity because the Africans taught me. I
Speaker 2: think some valuable lessons which the Africans is only the
Speaker 2: Africans having those lessons, and so one experience in having
Speaker 2: an African mindset which we sometimes overlook and we don't
Speaker 2: give the credit to Africa for for their mindset with
Speaker 2: with what they have and what they what they create
Speaker 2: is absolutely beautiful. So a total turnaround in my own
Speaker 2: concept as an individual to underst stand Africa better. And
Speaker 2: my take was if I want to be creative in
Speaker 2: South Africa and contribute to the South African community, which
Speaker 2: I loved, I need to understand also the African concept.
Speaker 2: And today it's working. Today it's helping me a lot.
Speaker 4: It's so interesting that because I mean, you're right, a
Speaker 4: lot of people who have the opportunity went to other places.
Speaker 4: But I think a lot of people who who went
Speaker 4: into Africa from South Africa seem to have maybe had
Speaker 4: had a much happier experience in many different ways. You
Speaker 4: did then go and if I understand your your career too,
Speaker 4: directory you went from sort of banking to the Pork
Speaker 4: Producers Association. So you went from money in agriculture to
Speaker 4: representing an industry. It's a whole new set of skills.
Speaker 4: And I wondered how big a change that was. I mean,
Speaker 4: sure it's still farming, it's still your your passion, but
Speaker 4: it's a it's a different kind of thing. And maybe
Speaker 4: some political skills along the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe you missed. Seven years before that, I went
Speaker 2: from corporate to work for myself and I always say
Speaker 2: referred back to that. It was one of the most
Speaker 2: expensive experiences in my life where I created the most wealth.
Speaker 2: I came to a point where corporate just it felt
Speaker 2: like I was swallowed in by corporate. We literally started
Speaker 2: at four o'clock in the morning and we ended at eight,
Speaker 2: and I made a U turn and I resigned and
Speaker 2: I went with my three daughters and we went to
Speaker 2: go and live in Nature's Valley in the Western Cape
Speaker 2: and smaller place. And I just said to myself, I
Speaker 2: need to find life in a different way. And what
Speaker 2: a beautiful time. Because the investment in my family was
Speaker 2: a big I would say, yeah, it's an asset today.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what Africa taught me that our
Speaker 2: valuable community and specifically family is and the impact in
Speaker 2: your own life in carrying you in difficult times. Going
Speaker 2: from banking into representing the pork industry, I would say,
Speaker 2: it was one of the greatest leaps I had. I
Speaker 2: could remember when they phoned me, I said the following. Now,
Speaker 2: I say it was arrogant to my my thinking, I said,
Speaker 2: never my life, I work with farmers, but to work
Speaker 2: for a farmer, it's one of the most difficult jobs
Speaker 2: because they are so diverse in their thinking. And the
Speaker 2: next thing is pork in my life, picks. Never man,
Speaker 2: there's no chance I would be I would be able
Speaker 2: to do it. And then also thinking back into it,
Speaker 2: I was the CEO then and I started as the CEO.
Speaker 2: What a colorful experience. It is a humble industry, not
Speaker 2: talking that much, but what a what a fantastic industry
Speaker 2: technologically than the for ruthers in South Africa in an
Speaker 2: industry wise, if you have a look in the world,
Speaker 2: they are world leaders in biosecurity. And if I say,
Speaker 2: that's not what I'm saying, it's what the world is saying.
Speaker 2: So what a fantastic experience. I think what many people
Speaker 2: are missing is that, and I think that's what made
Speaker 2: me good while being with them. I never tend to
Speaker 2: be a politician. I never tend to take the political route.
Speaker 2: I always took the corporate rout and doing business. So
Speaker 2: we spoke about it yesterday one of my one of
Speaker 2: the guys in industry, and I said, one of the
Speaker 2: things that we lack an industry is we can't make
Speaker 2: a decision because we politically want to be correct. Sometimes
Speaker 2: you need to make a call and you need to
Speaker 2: stand for the call that you made. And I think
Speaker 2: what corporate taught me is to stand for those calls.
Speaker 2: And the pick industry allowed me to be there. So
Speaker 2: what a wonderful what a wonderful experience with the pick industry.
Speaker 4: We speak to Johann Cutter tonight is your shape shifter?
Speaker 4: The CEO at Agria's.
Speaker 3: A the Money Show shape shifter.
Speaker 4: Is jo Hannekotsas, the CEO at Agriessay, is your shape shifter?
Speaker 4: This evening your hand. I do need to ask you
Speaker 4: a question or two about your current job, right And
Speaker 4: I've often wondered about managing the politics of farming because
Speaker 4: I think I think for a lot of people who
Speaker 4: are not farmers, they're probably two things that they think
Speaker 4: about when it comes to this. The one is food
Speaker 4: prices and the other is questions and arguments around land
Speaker 4: and land in South Africa, is, as you know better
Speaker 4: than I historically, is the cause of a lot of
Speaker 4: pain or what happened really is the cause of a
Speaker 4: lot of pain. You must have moments when people are
Speaker 4: really very angry, very emotional, and with good reason. How
Speaker 4: do you deal with those moments?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do, I must be honest. I think sometimes
Speaker 2: it's a bit lonely and we it comes and goes,
Speaker 2: so it's a It's not that it's every day, but
Speaker 2: then you get into a season where there's a lot
Speaker 2: of focus, specifically on land, which is very emotional in
Speaker 2: South Africa. I think the way to deal with it,
Speaker 2: My way with dealing with it is I wake up
Speaker 2: quite early in the morning and I really put myself
Speaker 2: into a different space where I just think through it.
Speaker 2: And you always come back to a point where you
Speaker 2: say it's not about you. So I believe sometimes we
Speaker 2: are very self centered when we deal with this, when
Speaker 2: people are attacking you as a person, and I think
Speaker 2: my way of getting out of it is to not
Speaker 2: be self centered and to focus on what needs to
Speaker 2: happen in South Africa and to have a clear mind
Speaker 2: regarding this. And if I may that, I don't if
Speaker 2: I take it personal I normally go back, and I
Speaker 2: think the one weapon that I have is forgiveness, and
Speaker 2: even if I'm in the wrong or somebody else saying
Speaker 2: the wrong, is just to say, God forgive them, and
Speaker 2: I forgive them. And I'd helped me a lot as
Speaker 2: an individual, because that he is stuff. And then you
Speaker 2: get to the point where where you work and you
Speaker 2: can work through somebody else else's mind and kind of
Speaker 2: understand their minds and the way they think, and kind
Speaker 2: of put yourself into their stance, and I think out
Speaker 2: of that a lot of clarity comes comes with that,
Speaker 2: a lot of wisdom to just start to deal with
Speaker 2: the situation.
Speaker 4: I sometimes, I mean, I look at this and as
Speaker 4: I think you might know, I followed this as a
Speaker 4: sort of political reporter and with what I do now,
Speaker 4: and one of the things I find really difficult, especially
Speaker 4: at the moment, is that so many people say things
Speaker 4: that are not true, and they're saying that they're doing
Speaker 4: that deliberately. I mean, that must be infuriating for.
Speaker 2: You, Stephen. I went to America and what an eye opener.
Speaker 2: And the first night I felt like batters and I
Speaker 2: felt like somebody in a in a boxing game, and
Speaker 2: I just they just got me out and I was
Speaker 2: I was bruised, and I sat down and I went
Speaker 2: through my mind through this whole concept. But what happened
Speaker 2: this day and what came to mind is people spoke
Speaker 2: about agriculture out of a fear and out of what
Speaker 2: possibly might go wrong, but they did not testify of
Speaker 2: who we are. And what came to mind is that
Speaker 2: I can't change the world itself, and I think social
Speaker 2: media is good but also evil in this sense. But
Speaker 2: what I can do is I can testify about the
Speaker 2: goodness of what I experienced through the farmers that we
Speaker 2: have in agriculture. And what started to happen is that
Speaker 2: testimony is so true that overpowers the lie. And I
Speaker 2: think what we what we tend to do with agriculture specifically,
Speaker 2: an agree essay is to talk about the testimonies of farmers.
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's tough, it's hard, but you can enough
Speaker 2: pushed back into that space. The difficult one is that
Speaker 2: we need to be the voice of reason, and that
Speaker 2: voice of reason is not a strong voice being radical
Speaker 2: and to the left or to the right, but it's
Speaker 2: always middle ground, and so you can't participate and you
Speaker 2: can't push back in social media when you have this
Speaker 2: harsh discussions, and that's sometimes stuff. But we've learned that
Speaker 2: the testimony of a farmer, there's no greater voice, and
Speaker 2: there's no stronger voice regarding certain situations that we are in,
Speaker 2: and we just need to advocate that a little bit more.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we've we've got thirty seconds left, I'm afraid.
Speaker 4: But everyone talks about how the world is changing, and
Speaker 4: every time I hear the phrase AI and artificial intelligence
Speaker 4: want to scream, is it changing as quickly in farming
Speaker 4: as it seems to be changing in other places?
Speaker 2: It does? It does? We utilize it a lot. I
Speaker 2: think position farming is a big, big, big, big play
Speaker 2: for us. We have world loss farms participating on world
Speaker 2: loss plays forms. An AI does play a major role
Speaker 2: into this. I think quality wise, product productivity is jacked
Speaker 2: up by AI. So there's a lot of off take
Speaker 2: on AI. Still a lot to do, still a far
Speaker 2: away to go. But as South African farmers, we well
Speaker 2: get it and well well I would say, well equipped
Speaker 2: with AI and we do understand the concept. Often we
Speaker 2: utilize it.
Speaker 4: It was your Handkotsa talking about his career journey through
Speaker 4: the agriculture sector from his roots as a farmer, becoming
Speaker 4: an agricultural banker and now leading the organization that helps
Speaker 4: farmers in South Africa, a CEO of agri Essay you
Speaker 4: all listening to the Money shows, the best bits you've
Speaker 4: been with, the best bits of the Money Ship. Digest
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Speaker 4: on Monday. Have a good have a safe weekend.