WEBVTT - Political analysis: Mkhwanazi/Mchunu saga 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.159 Struggle to political analysis. 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:06.520 That's right. Welcome back at seventeen minutes past ten writer 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:07.880 on the Aubri Masango show. 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:09.520 My name is Komotomdisa. 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.240 I'm Infra brah Ups who's taking a much needed rest 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:17.080 and it's time now for our political analysis feature. And 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.200 of course we can't ignore the conversation of the weekend, 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:22.440 the conversation of the day, and I can tell you 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:24.599 it is going to be the story of the week. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.360 And there's something really major happens. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.720 And that is that explosive press briefing from the occasion 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.360 in Police Commissioner Da Mukuana z the General Dandam Muquanazi 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:38.640 there dropping bombs and. 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:42.080 It I mean, I've been calling it the chronicles. 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.879 Of South Africa because it's bomb off, the bomb of 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.479 the bomb. And when that press that happened yesterday, I 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.519 don't know about you, but with me, I was watching 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:56.160 and I was thinking South Africans must feel. So it 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.040 must be a mixed feeling to know that all the 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.080 fears that many of us have had and the speculations 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:06.920 that many of us have had about what may or 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.320 may not be happening in this country around drug hotels 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.759 and how it could only be that you know, powerful 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.560 people are involved, because what do you mean we're not 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.600 fighting drugs with the capacity that we have here in 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.319 this country. So Africans, I've been saying, I'm sure powerful 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.640 people are involved. I'm sure there's big people behind this. 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.000 And whether or not that's true, the fact that it's 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:37.320 coming from a senior police officer is mind blowing. It's 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:40.640 insane because this is a man who's at the forefront 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.760 of crime prevention in his province and a big player 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:47.200 in this country when it comes to the combating of 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.520 crime and the fact that he's making these claims and 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.160 allegations mind boggling. I tell you, I found myself with 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.600 my draw on the ground because I just thought, wow, 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:02.920 and as expected, there's been development after development after development, 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.160 and here top Us makes sense of it all is 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:11.720 political analyst Shumelo Abaout joining us live now on the show. Shumelo, 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:13.919 thank you so much for joining us this evening. Welcome 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:15.440 to the open Masamachell. 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.840 Good living in Homoto and toward the listeners, and thank 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:20.240 you very much for having me this evening. 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.240 Yes, I'm tempted to say to ask first, well, what 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:26.079 were your thoughts on the press briefing, and I'm sure 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:29.480 you've been asked this so many times as a political analyst, 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:30.560 but let's just start there. 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:31.560 Your thoughts. 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.919 Well, it was very shocking and it left me astonished, 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.400 to say the least, because I think, not to say 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.800 that it's unprecedented, but I think it's really unexpected that 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:48.480 someone whom we had with high regard, is a minister 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.360 in terms of Kolo, is implicated in something that is 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:57.559 so serious. And I think, secondly, General Quanas, these revelations 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:04.120 yesterday actually expose the decay, the institutional decay that is 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.480 generic in South Africa's public sector, not only in steps 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.400 but generally, because I think that he alluded to the 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.560 fact that there are some members of the judiciary as 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.920 well as some law enforcement agencies within the country who 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:21.079 are involved in this entire syndicate that he was trying 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.560 to highlight. They was trying to paint a picture of yesterday. 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.919 So I think generally we've been seeing these things happening, 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.800 but we never really knew what the genesis or what 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.720 the cracks of everything is. So I think what he 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.960 exposed yesterday is the decay not only in scepts, but 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.080 it was just a sample of what is happening generally 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:44.920 across institutions in our public sector in South Africa and politically. 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:48.000 What can we make of this move vime qulanity in 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.160 lights of him having been shortlisted or you know, been 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:55.480 one of the candidates to take over as Hawk's head 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.640 and then you know that post was withdrawn since on 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.000 Kunu the minister was drawing that that post. I mean, 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.480 we know Thatazi and Severe were among the short listed 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.560 names and you know now that post is gone. But 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:13.880 also has been a big favorite among many. Yes, he's 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.200 been criticized for his policing style by some, but I 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.040 think he's been a favorite by by most. And now 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:24.360 this happens, I mean it almost it puts us all 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:28.080 in a state of confusion about where's he placed now? 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:29.960 Does he stay a favorites of the people. 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:36.760 Well, honestly speaking, what I've been observing from the public 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:41.720 after yesterday's press briefing is that the public is rallying 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:46.159 behind general because you must remember that ordinary South Africans 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.400 are beginning to lose confidence in South African police service 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.680 at a local level, at a lower level of government, 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.800 because you will find that some people complain about them 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.200 reporting cases of murder, cases of robberies, or cases of 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:02.320 abuse for that matter, be it domestically or otherwise, and 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.960 them actually not getting the necessary attention that they need. 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.320 I mean, the disappearance of darkness is something that would 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.760 expect at a lower level of this institution, and it's 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.000 been happening for a very long time, by the way, 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.880 So to hear that these things have been happening at 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.359 a national level and with higher ranking political officials and 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.200 office bearers was actually very shocking. And obviously it does 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.479 have political linkages to it, because we do know that, 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.680 for instance, the genesis of this whole thing was in 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:38.080 regards to the fit of the instituting of the political 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.360 killing tork killing caved in at the Roguanadet mensions, which 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.240 by the way, is the province with the most political 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.880 killings and murders in this country. So it was obviously 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.320 linked to that and him actually deploying members of that 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.159 tossed into Johannesburg and unraveling that happened subsequent to that. 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.440 So obviously, as he had mentioned yesterday, that there are 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.320 a lot of political figures, all big shots, that have 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.200 been involved in this entire operation, and that I've been 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.039 trying to meddle and also ensure that they do not 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.279 get caught, because as he had mentioned it yesterday that 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.920 what what he themained, what actually made him to come 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:20.440 out about this entire thing is the fact that the 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.960 Deputy National Commissioner of Police, who is Shatrak Shadrack Silia, 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.000 had actually acted at the discretion of the Minister in 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:34.640 disbanding this trust team that was investigating political killing, which 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.920 actually goes to show that there are political interests and 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.479 in middling that is involved in this entire thing. And 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.800 it also takes me back. I'll actually take you back 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.279 to the time when a similar thing happened whereby Jack 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.640 you Ci Lady, who was then National Commissioner of Police 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.840 in the two thousands, was arrested and convicted, actually sentenced 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.560 in prison for a similar case whereby he was fraternizing 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.880 with drug lords and people who were riding. So this 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.880 is nothing that is very unprecedented. It's something that has 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.919 happened before. And I actually drew a parallel between what 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.360 happened late and what is happening now, which means that 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.080 certain there are remnants of certain things or linkages of 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.280 politicians as well as people in our law enforcement agencies, 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.840 which actually brings our our country security into question because 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.920 once the country dometic security or even defense is being 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.240 tampered with by politicians, they put us at risk of 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:33.120 being vulnerable to those who are criminals. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.400 I mean, talk me through the responses politically that have 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.960 come through, you know to what Quality had to say. 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:45.560 Of course, the NC could not ignore this, the you know, 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:48.040 questions about whether any this matter. 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.240 Needs to go to the NEEC. We saw. 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.800 I don't know the responses I've been hearing from ANC members, 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:59.480 from the NCUTH League, from from the Secretary General of 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.400 the NC figure in Ballula. It sounds as though the 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.680 NC is closing ranks, but they also are saying that 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.160 there must be some sort of an investigation into sens 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:09.720 on Colonel. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.760 Now, one thing that you should note about the ANC 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.720 is that they will always seek to protect their own. 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.360 I mean, I was not surprised when I heard Colin 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.360 Malatti's the remarks yesterday after the press briefing, which did 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.160 not really have any background off by the way, saying 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.880 that people should be arrested and time for people being 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.760 pop stars is over. You could actually sense that he 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.120 did not have an idea of what he was talking about. 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.680 You were just speaking out of protecting someone for something 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.080 that doesn't even have an idea of. So I think 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:46.000 the caliber of people that have been that is something 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.960 that would expect from the ANC in terms of them 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.560 protecting such elements or criminal elements. We saw it with 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.880 in the Swiftites administration rather when they were protecting to 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.480 you comes to my Emparliament in regards to the whole 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.480 guy and Thesaga, we saw them actually doing with the 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.040 President Rama course in regards to Pala Pala, and we 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.040 even see the President actually shielding those that are supporting 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.280 him within the ANC, people such as were the Mandasha 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.160 who have by the way, been implicated in the State 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.600 capture report, people like Malusiki Gaba, David Matlubo and the 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.800 list is endless. So it's not something that is unprecedented 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.720 and it didn't come as a surprise that people that 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.120 members or leaders of the ANC would come out in 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.880 defense of something like this. And I think that for 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.480 a change in South Africa, we just need the Lord 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.679 to take its course and we really need to really 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:40.360 need law enforcement agencies like the NPA to not allow 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:44.640 themselves to be captured by politicians, and also for politicians 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.839 to use these institutions as weapons against one another, because 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:49.920 that is what is currently at play now, and that 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:54.400 also puts the legitimacy off the state in question if 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:58.240 politicians are being enabled to use these institutions like SAPs 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.160 and the NPA as bridge co weapons against one another, 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.680 because that's what we're being thing unfolding in the ANC, 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:07.079 that those that are part of a certain cohort are 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.719 safe and then those that are actually actually have a 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.240 dissenting due to the President or certain people in the 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.800 ANC adulthood of which there's an inconsistency in that. And 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:20.400 you cannot have a country whereby institutions that are supposed 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.440 to uphold democrat or democratic order are being used as 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.320 politic weapons to fight one another. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:27.440 Yeah, I'm going to. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.440 Open up the line zero double one double a three 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.760 oh seven two zero double one double a three oh 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.280 seven O two. That's the number two call to make 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.480 your contributions. I mean, how are you feeling about the 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:42.440 reaction by the ANC, you know, and Parliament that we 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:48.280 saw today reacting to that groundbreaking explosive press briefing, Ye 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.600 General and Quanazi. If you'd rather send us a WhatsApp. 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.079 It's on zero seven two seven O two one seven 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.600 o two. I'm looking forward to your thoughts on that, 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.920 you know, I want to f I've been thinking, Melo 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:06.800 that now that we are seeing the ANC at pains 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:12.520 to almost show to rebrand, you know, and present an 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:17.959 anti corruption posture, could this be the opportunity that they need, 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.440 you know, to do something or is some send some 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:26.200 too senior a member and too senior a person in 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.200 the party for him to almost become the example of 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.240 what the ANC can do in this fight against corruption. 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:40.720 Look, Homoto, I don't see the a n C actually acting. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.200 I'll speak about the ANC. So speaking about the ANC 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:45.400 and not the president, but the A and C. Generally. 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.920 Remember in the A n C, the National Executive Committee, 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.840 which is the NEC, is the highest making decision body, 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:54.920 and there's so much power that is in the NEC, 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.400 and that even the President does not act outside of 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.640 directors that are given to him by the NEC, not 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.880 any other official. By the way, So like I mentioned 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.319 before that the ANC is always is known for protecting 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.120 its own deployees that are in government and those that 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:15.240 are found that are alleged of wrongdoing in any form 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.720 within government or even though that are not in government, 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.520 within the A and C. So I've been actually saying 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.600 this that the AENC is actually suffering the same state 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.640 as all its counterpart in neighboring countries and other of 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.120 What I mean by that is that it's suffering the 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.880 same state as all other liberation movements in neighboring countries, 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:37.760 do VANAPF in Zimbabwe and for Limo in Mogandigue, you 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:42.920 name them, in that they do not want to they 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:47.040 fail to actually deal with certain things that are negatively 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.439 impacting them. And in South Africa, I think we've seen 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.439 how the public has actually reacted to how the ANC 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:55.280 has been behaving over the years and that they've been 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.920 declining of the election of the election. So in so 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:01.880 far as this is called, I really don't see. I 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.080 really don't think that they will act punitively against terms 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.079 of Tony because coming, like I mentioned, is regarded as 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.400 someone of statue in the ANC. Like I said, even 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.840 as Eli Aficans, they didn't expect such from him. Yes, 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.160 there are the investigations that are going to be conducting. 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.959 There's not just there's so much evidence. But the ANC, 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.600 like I said, is always known for protecting its own 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:26.400 even though the magnitude of the wrongdoing that the person 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.480 is implicated in is so huge, like we find now 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:31.840 we saw it like I mentioned with Pala Pala, and 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.880 even with the VPS scandal with people like tim to 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.120 seeing Ali and whom they're president, by the way, did 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.440 not act punitively on but chose to move to another ministry, 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.719 which also was a sign of the A and C 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.920 contradicting itself in its renewal project. I think the only 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.080 person that we've seen actually being dealt with in the 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.920 A and C who was implicated in corruption and all 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.600 manner of wrongdoings was as Maacha Shule, who eventually got 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.360 expelled in the party, which goes to show that if 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.839 you get actually read into the dynamics of the ANC, 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.400 you will know that as Maacha Schuler was an anti 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:06.240 pieces of president I'm a port of Way who was 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.560 still in the ALC. So it goes back to what 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.800 I said that within the ANC, these institutions are being 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.839 used as weapons to fight people that have dissent in 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.000 views with one another, which actually draws on what does 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.600 an inconsistency as well as their not being coherent with 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:24.880 their renewal program. 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.160 So then, what should South Africans make of the following 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:30.840 quote from Figel. 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:31.600 And Baluda the SG. 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.600 He says, the ANC will not defend anywhere wrongdoing. We'll 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.080 get to the bottom of this and all our ministers 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.920 in government must be subjected to process of government in 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.400 terms of good governance, either in Chapter nine institutions or 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.760 even in Parliament. They must account should they be in 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.480 the wrong. We will not hesitate to take action in 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.240 that regard or call for our President to act on them. 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:56.960 So in this particular instance, we follow the rule of law. 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.920 What should we make of that? That sounds pretty decisive, 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.800 It sounds strong. It says we're not going to protect 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:04.640 Kuno or anyone else. 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.440 I mean, it's not the first time that we're hearing 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.440 such remarks from the Secretary General in so far as 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:16.680 a matter of this nature is concerned. When Jim Simulana 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.600 was being implicated in the VPS scandal, he made similar remarks. 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:25.680 When kumbut And Chabeni was also being implicated in issues 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.160 of corruption when she was still a municipalt manager in 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.520 liim Borbo, he still made the same remarks, but we 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.560 did not see any action there. Are many other people 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.360 within the ANC that has been implicated in wrongdoing and 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.680 the same question has been posed. He still gives similar answers, 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.240 but no action has been taken. I mean, I think 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.800 the beginning of the year they alluded to the fact 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:51.400 that there will be a committee of some sort that 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.480 will be instituted within the Essuy's office to deal with 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.280 some of the state capture issues. I mean, the report 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.640 is there, the report is there, Why not actually deal 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:06.440 with these people and investigate further or actually actually recommendations 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.120 that we're given by the State Capture report. So it 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:11.920 just goes to show that there's no intention in so 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:13.960 far as dealing with the wrongdoing in the A and 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.440 C is concerned. The issue that the ANC has is 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:22.360 that it's very polarized and people are using institutions to 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.920 deal with one another instead of being intentional and looking 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:27.680 at things with an objective eye. 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:32.800 We're speaking to political analysts Ashuma Lobaba on that explosive 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:37.280 press briefing by the General and Ganumqnaz in case it 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:41.640 ends really interesting times that we're living in South Africa, 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.360 and I suppose now the story is what next, which 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.960 is going to be the second part of our of 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:51.920 our conversation. I want to invite you to make your contributions. 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.400 I see some of your WhatsApps. There someone here saying, 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.320 did I hear right? You actually take the words of 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:58.640 the SG series. 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:01.760 I mean he's saying them. 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.000 You know, he's saying them, and I think all we 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:08.400 can do is listen and wait and see. But are 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.480 you skeptical that the ANC will take any action against 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:15.560 them who as a senior member of the party or 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.359 any other parliamentarians. I mean we heard him Quanaze saying 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:24.200 that they are parliamentarians who are involved in this drug syndicate. 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.960 And you know, I think he's got the records and 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.360 he's got the names, and that's why the President has 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.800 promised to get to the bottom of it when he 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:33.480 comes back. 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:35.640 I get in touch with us. I want to hear 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:36.400 from you, and. 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:38.879 I want to encourage you to call when we still 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.400 have time, and not towards the end of the show, 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.639 when we've got five minutes of What often happens on 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.879 the show is that people wait until five two and 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.920 then there's eight callers and some of you don't get through. 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:55.000 So please make your contributions heard when there is still time, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.560 the number is zero double one double eight three oh 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.919 seven oh two zero double one double eight three seven two. 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.760 Do you take what Figula says seriously? Do you think 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:09.280 the ANC will be dealing with sens On decisively or 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:13.000 is he just too senior a member for anything to 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.280 actually happen to him? And the outcry that we're seeing 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.520 now from the parliament and opposition parties, what do you 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:24.320 make of that? One double a three seven two. Shumelo 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.800 Aba is our guest on the show this evening and 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.480 he is a political analyst helping us make sense of 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:34.080 this particular story tonight and the direction really that I 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.520 want us to take the conversation in now Humeto, is 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.400 the President Posson or actually, before we go there, Shimelo, 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.479 let's highlight the fact that the DA now has written 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.240 to the National Assembly and they want the Speaker Togot 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.560 Diza to have an urgent debate in Parliament on the 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.959 corruption allegations within the National Police Service. I mean, what 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.240 would a debate like that look like? It would be 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.200 base on allegations that have been made by a commissioner 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.840 and case it in surely that that's not how things 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:06.320 would work. 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:12.119 Well, this is a matter of national interest Coromoto in 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:17.720 that it also puts our national security at risk. I 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.000 actually had an interview in another platform earlier on where 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.800 I said that the President has doesn't have a good 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.720 track record in terms of acting punitively against people that 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.399 are implicated and wrongdoing. Like I mentioned that with Timby Simelani, 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.040 didn't act with any punity, didn't act punitively with Timmy Simelani, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.880 even with a lot more others within the agency such 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:43.520 as David Masbo, Mada, et cetera. And By. However, with 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.399 this one, I believe that it's a different case in 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:50.240 that it compromises our security as a country because these 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.720 are very serious allegations and general quanas. It seems to 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.440 have a lot of substantive evidence that is backing everything 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.560 that you allited to. Yesdy, I do be believe that 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.560 there is an urgent intervention that needs to be taken 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.639 by the President and by Parliament in order to have 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.960 a debate, because we've had similar instances before when urgent 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.920 matter has been brought to the fall publicly and then 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:18.200 Parliament convenience to have an urgent debate. I did actually 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:22.720 see that the Security and Peace Cluster Portfolio Cluster in 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.840 Parliament today did have the briefing whereby Ian Cameron was 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:30.359 the Portfolio Committeeture of Police and also made some dining 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.480 allegations in regards to this whole revelation of commission and 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.040 tum qualities. So I do believe that this is a 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.199 matter that needs to be treated with urgency in that 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.639 it puts it puts it implicates our security at our 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.080 nest and security at risk. And there are also other 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.040 people's lives actually that may be involved, may may be 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.439 lost for a lack of the belt term in this country, 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:53.639 because we do know that in South Africa if you 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:56.359 are also blower, you're risk losing your life. You saw 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.159 with the late and Pormofole who was an ordered in 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:03.200 ecolin Unity who subsequently lost his life after acting against 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.480 the corruption that probing the corruption that is happening in 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.439 that municipality. So in South Africa, Finion, we're so blower 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.320 or being someone that actually cracks the work against any 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.200 wrongdoing means that you are putting your life at risk. 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:17.280 And I think that's a phenomenon that needs to come 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:20.280 to an end and the President and others that are 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.600 in power need to act punitively and ensuring that people 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.000 who are found or implicated in such cases must be 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:28.840 must face the might of the law, and you must 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.639 learn to crack the work on these people, irrespective of 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.440 whether or not that in instection in the aenc or 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:36.800 whether or not they are supporting him in one way 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.000 or the other pact. Everyone is equal to the law 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.879 and they should act accordingly. So I do believe that 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.840 this is an urgent matter and Parliament as well as 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.400 the President, to be specific, should ponder on it carefully 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.800 and also act accordingly, pending all the investigations that are 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:53.120 yet to be brought to the fore. 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.040 I found it interesting and maybe even a little impressive 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.520 that the President steps aside from his work work at 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:05.639 the Brick Summit in Rio de Janeiro and he responds 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:08.879 to these allegations that were made in that press briefing 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.200 in a statement, he says, this is a matter of 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:16.880 grave national security concern that's receiving the highest priority attention. 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.160 It is vital that the integrity of the country's security 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:22.480 services is safeguarded. 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:23.320