WEBVTT - Current Affairs: GNU soap opera 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.040 So too political analysis. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.360 So lots happening on the politics front, but we could 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:12.720 not ignore what's been happening this weekend with the DA. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:15.200 And I was saying a little earlier as the show 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:20.319 started that I felt like Theda really looked they looked, 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:22.520 I don't want to say helpless this weekend in that 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.159 press briefing, but they looked like they were trying to 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:27.680 convince you and I that they're still in control. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.840 Yet I think this weekend, for the first. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.440 Time, at least for me, I felt like you could 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.800 see that they were not in control and are not 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:40.040 in control over affairs in this GNU. Of course, they 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:42.960 had the press briefing after giving the president that forty 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.560 eight hour ultimatum saying, if you do not fire the 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.480 other ministers as well, after you sacked Andrew Whitfield, then 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.160 we are going to make a big announcement on the GNU, 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.200 and we are going to be announcing that after the 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.560 eight hour period lapse. That's now. Of course, it came 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:05.559 and it went, and they were supposed to make this announcement, 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:07.600 and I don't know about you, but I think many 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.800 people were a little underwhelmed by the announcement that they 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.440 made essentially saying they're going to be withdrawing from the 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.640 National Dialogue. They will be participating in that, and they 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.480 I think also maybe a lot more important than the 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.840 National Dialogue withdrawal. They said they would not be or 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.920 they would be voting down the budgets of A and 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.039 C ministers or ministers that they deemed to be corrupt. 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.200 So that's really what happened at the weekend. Panita Hunter, 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.800 a freelance journalist, has written for News twenty four an 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:42.319 analysis piece saying the DA's strange performative outrage in the 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.160 g and U soap opera. She joins us now live Pnisa, 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.600 thank you so much for joining us on the Aubri 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:50.680 massan Wo show this evening. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.040 I maybe let's start with. 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.760 This headline, because really it is giving soap opera vibes, 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:57.200 isn't it. 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.559 Quancert, thank you so much with this and wonderful chatting 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.440 to you. It's a never ending uh theater. They are 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.520 more you know, more boring days than others. But when 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:11.800 it gets intense like this, one wonders. 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:12.280 To what end? 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.960 And so you're right to say, you know this this 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:20.639 weekend seemed a little bit underwhelming to many people because 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.519 you know, this is probably the fifth iteration of the 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:29.120 DA issuing some sort of ultimatum. And one can understand 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.320 that multiple things can be true at one time. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:32.800 Hoos. 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:38.720 So you know, being undermined by your coalition partner in 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:39.520 the form of presidence. 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.400 So Ramaposa unilaterally deciding. 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.200 To remove a president and you feel jilted, I mean 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.360 a deputy minister rather, and you feel jilted about that. 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.679 Sure you know you have the DA has all the 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:56.240 right to to to feel that way. But secondly, this 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.120 didn't come as a ball that of the blue. This 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.920 was something that was addressed in cabin It. Ministers and 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:07.720 deputy ministers were informed about this particular piece of legislation 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:11.680 and that there is president in the form of William 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:17.520 Mandela and the form of UH for Master road Lag. Yeah, 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.880 who were who were sacked because of this very thing? Right, 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.280 if you feel like it's unjustified, you know the d 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.920 A can can can you resist? But at the end 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.840 of the day, the president had told the Democratic Alliance 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.079 leader that give another name and and and we would 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.560 replace that position. So it's it's it's almost what they 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:41.760 call a d A position in the GNU. So if 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.920 the d A decided to make this the hill they 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.240 die on. If this is you know, the ultimate red 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.640 line that or the line that they throwing in the sand, 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.760 there's absolutely no problem to it. But then you cannot 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:59.320 issue an ultimatum and then uh make a decision that 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.920 has no bearing on your participation in the GA in 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.080 the GNU, because a National Dialogue doesn't even have a 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.920 steering committee just yet, right, so we don't even know 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.240 if it's going to be open to political parties, right. 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:17.479 Yeah, which makes me wonder. I mean, were they trying 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.800 to seem like they were doing something, because when the 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.480 forty eight hour period lapsed, we were now all waiting, 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.680 and I suppose they had to make some sort of 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:27.320 an announcement. 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:29.039 Yeah. 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.080 So the reality of it is that whether a president 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.800 is governing by coalition or not, he is the president 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.120 and in terms of the law, it's only him that 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.120 hires and fires his executive Right. So, did Ramaposta do 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.760 anything wrong? No, he just exercised his power that was 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.880 given to him by the Democratic Alliance and many other 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.200 political parties that now formed the g and U. If 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:58.680 the DA decides by its own volition that this president 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.920 that it had low owned its votes to in parliament 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:07.000 is not worthy and that the arrangement that they have. Remember, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.279 the g and u is basically a fancy way of saying, 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:14.599 we borrow you our votes in parliament in exchange for positions. 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:15.599 Right. 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.640 So if the DA doesn't do its part, which is, 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.880 for example, vote for a budget, because that's the only 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.680 reason why you'd be in coalition is to to so 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.800 that you can co govern and take things across the line. 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:33.200 That's the difficulty with a minority government, right, is that 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.240 you you're not you're not always you're not always able 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:38.799 to take things across the line when it comes to lawmaking, 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.000 when it comes when it comes to pass or first 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:45.320 in the in the first instant, you know, electing a president, 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:51.320 secondly passing off budgets, thirdly making of legislation right, and 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.599 then obviously further down the road is changing of the 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:54.760 constitution et cetera. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:55.479 Right. 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.680 So that's essentially what a g and u is is 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.479 that it's an it's it's a it's a we decide 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.400 we're going to govern together and as a result, we're 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.320 going to support your endeavor as president ram A posa 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.480 and the majority party being the ANC. Now the DA 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.159 coming out and saying okay, let's forget about the national 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.080 dialogue part of it, but saying we're going to go 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.640 vote against the budgets of corrupt ministers. It essentially says 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.920 we are okay to that departments of a government that 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:29.039 we are part of can hald to a grind, uh, 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.880 you know, if we don't get our way, So we 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:38.479 don't actually care if the minister if, for example, needy 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.160 students get the money needed funded through the Department of 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.760 Higher Education, because we have a problem with the sitting minister. 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.760 So that's where things become quite complicated. And what I 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:52.240 argue today in my column News twenty four is that 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:57.239 it becomes a charade because everyone knows that the real 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.080 decision is whether you in or out. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:01.120 One knows that. 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.360 The DA has threatened to leave at least five times 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.760 when it was the Bella Act, when it became came 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.880 to expropriation without compensation, when it came to the budget, 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.280 and so now its just another iteration and people thought, oh, well, 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:18.559 maybe they are serious, because maybe this is the line 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.320 that they don't want to be crusted. But at the 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.000 same time, the DA is living with the reality that 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:29.120 they they they believe that it's better for them to 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.880 be in the GNU than out of the GNU. So 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.040 this takes me to the the second argument that I 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.760 made home so, which is, if you want to be in, 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:42.520 then use your role of being in constructively instead of 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:47.640 throwing tantrums. And previously I'd made the argument that do 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.120 you threaten divorced to negotiate it with a house? 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:54.200 Is that the way? Is that the way to do it? Yes, 0:07:57.920 --> 0:07:58.600 well you should not. 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:07.680 So, I mean, it's a it's a complicated of course, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:11.040 one understands that, you know, it's a frustration that the 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.840 democratic it can't be easy to co govern with a 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.480 party that was your art enemy. But it's a decision 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.600 that you've taken as a democratic alliance. 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:20.680 And so what does that look like? 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.280 And so for the ministers, the DA ministers, for example, 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.440 the Minister of Homefairs, the Minister of Basic Education, they 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:33.920 understand that this serves as a this serves as a 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:35.679 trial run, this serves as. 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.200 A pre show. 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.440 It's it's a you know, an opportunity to show the 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.200 electorate this is what we can do, right, and that's 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:44.680 that's that's huge. 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.000 That's something the DA never really had in the past. 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.680 Right where you can actually go to the electorate with 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:54.280 a set of deliverables, because the last election showed us 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.760 that promises people are weary of promises from wherever it 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.200 comes from, which is why the four largest party is 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:05.560 on didn't grow in and obviously the ANC plummeted, and 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:06.600 so did the E f F and. 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:07.280 So did the I f P. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.960 Right, So this is in addition to the electric to 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:17.200 say we had a stab at national government and this 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:22.640 is what we do. So everybody cannot foresee the DA 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:30.240 walking away. Right, So the modus operandi of expressing dissatisfaction distain, 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.480 et cetera, should it be this one of threatening to 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:39.679 leave or threatening fracture and causing some sort of pandemonium 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.160 in the country to say, well, we'll we wake up 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.559 with the new national government or with a different national 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:49.280 government or not every time things don't go your way. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.559 And so that I think is quite an interesting or 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.880 for me at least a little bit concerning. 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.040 Yeah, I mean, you know, there's there's a there's a 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:06.160 sentiment that, you know, from what happened this weekend, it's 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.920 starting to look like the DA will won't actually ever leave, 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:15.000 you know, it's it's starting to feel like it's going 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.520 to take a whole lot for them to leave, and 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.559 even when they make threats, they're not likely to stand 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:24.760 by them. It's that it's not the sense that you're 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.920 getting like leaving is becoming a fine distant I don't 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.720 even want to say reality, but possibility for the DA. 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:33.360 And that's fine, homo. 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.440 So in the sense that if the DA has made 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:41.199 the calculation, the political calculation that says, under no circumstance 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.160 to be had, or we give the ANC what it wants, 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.439 we will. We will challenge them at every corn we 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.679 decide to be in the you know, with this government, 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:52.560 with the ANC, if they don't want us, they must 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.400 throw us away. That's that's a political decision that's made right. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.480 But then your actions have to back up that decision 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:04.760 and honor that, however politically inconvenient. So if you're saying 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:09.520 you're not backing out of a GNU, you cannot at 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.360 the same time say we are considering emotion of no 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.280 confidence against the president because the g and U exists 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.480 because of that president, that president, that legally elected president 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:25.800 by more than half of members of Parliament, including the 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:30.080 Democratic Alliance in Peace, that government exists because of him. 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.280 So if you're voting for a motion of no confidence 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:37.480 against the president, you're effectively breaking apart the government as 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.559 it stands. Right, So you can't have your cake and 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.880 eat it. If the DA decides we are on a 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.920 mission to collapse the existing government led by presidents, then 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:54.560 own it, right, But it cannot say that we will 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.360 not leave the g and U. But at the same 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:02.320 time we mulling emotion of no confidence, which effectively means 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.000 not only the GNU as you know it, but the 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.599 collapse of government completely. 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:10.200 Yeah, nationally, at. 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.040 Least a colia, what can what can we make of 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.800 the president saying it's okay if you don't want to 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.680 participate in the national dialogue. It's fine for the DA 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:23.080 not to participate. However, if any minister doesn't participate, that's 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.560 a that's a whole different story. In fact, I want 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:27.520 to use the right language here because I think I 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.520 remember the President in that story using the term was 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:37.559 it in subordination? That you know, ministers must must participate 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.360 and so for you know, someone like John cna is 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.520 and this is going to be difficult. What do you 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:42.960 make of that? 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:44.880 Yeah? 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.679 So so that's that's exactly it right. Like I said earlier, 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.839 we don't even know to what degree political parties were 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.160 going to be involved in this, in this in this 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.080 national dialogue. Right, so as a party, if the if 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:58.800 the DA says we're not going to always sell time 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.200 with it, they are cool fine, right, But ministers, this 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:07.000 dialogue is the intersection of government, civil society, business and 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:11.480 ordinary South Africans and chartering a way forward for the country. 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:16.440 Right it is an initiative of the seventh Administration. There 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.040 are DA ministers in the seventh Administration, in the executive 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:26.040 and therefore it's an unthinkable scenario where ministers are instructed 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:33.360 by a president by cabinet just don't pitch up. That 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:37.000 is clear in subordination, if that, if it were to 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:44.160 come to that, right and so again, I don't get 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.920 the sense that within the executive itself and in the 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:56.000 engagements between the competing equalitm not opposing competing political parties 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.920 in the GNU, that there is an acrimony that exists. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:00.560 I don't think. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:05.120 So people will be surprised by how well some DA 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:09.480 ministers get along with A ANDC ministers. In fact, sometimes 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:16.800 they gossip to they gossip to their opponent about their comrades, right, 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:22.960 because that's the nature of politics. And so this this 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.720 world where you know, the geneus is just this frawth thing. 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:27.840 I don't think it's possible. 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:32.600 And and and honestly, I've argued many, many, many many 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:38.720 times most political parties in the genu have done the 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.760 maths and have come to the conclusion that it is 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.520 better to be in than out. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.119 And and yes. 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.480 There are times where the the you know, they have 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.720 the envelope has to be pushed a little bit. 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:54.320 In trying to get your weight. 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.480 For example, the DA would say that what what I 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.840 would call tantrums through around the budget was worth it 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.080 because you don't have a budget, I mean, you don't. 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.640 Have a bat increase. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:11.720 The On the other hand, there's a there's a looming 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:20.240 reality that a calculation was made and that it's definitely 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:21.240 more worthy to be in. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:27.040 And so there's going to be all sorts of political maneuverings. 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.200 The other point that I wanted to make homes, which 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.840 is an interesting one, is we must not forget that 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.480 the DA's elective conference is less than a year away 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.440 twenty twenty six, and as a country we only know 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:48.400 to talk about factionalism slate politics, that narrative in the 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.720 context of the ANC. We don't know it in the 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.960 context of any other political party. But the DA now 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:59.120 has the same problems the A and C once had alone, 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:05.480 which is that they have a taste of governance and 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:10.200 power so once So that creates a whole different dynamic 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.360 within the Democratic Alliance and a different set of interest. 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.280 Right access to power. 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:23.000 Changes the nature of internal party dynamics, and so decisions 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:27.720 made about the GNU or how people show how you know, 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.720 whether whether there's going to be a mass walkout by 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.680 DA ministers or mass stay away or whatever it may be, 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.040 or collective in subordination, however it may play out right 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.240 on the fifteenth of August at the end of the day, 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.120 that's a decision that if the leader takes it or 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:51.760 whoever has the upper hand in ultimately deciding that, you know, 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:56.200 it has some bearing on that sort of side position 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.720 within the DA. And we know for a fact that 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.080 there's a competing in between those who believe the ANC 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.760 is disrespecting the DA and that they must just leave, 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.159 and they're there are those who believe that it's worth 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.840 the discomfort of being in the A n C. In 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.240 the Geneura with the a n C and and and 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:20.119 and sell it to the public as an effort to 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.680 block the extreme left in the form of the e 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:29.199 f F entering the Government of National Unity. So what 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:35.119 I'm trying to say is that undoubtedly there's no sort 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.320 of singular position when it comes to the Democratic Alliance, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:42.960 and that's why you'll always see it toulting or you know, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:48.040 because again before not there was not too much at stake, 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:52.280 There was no there was no contest for state power internally. 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:57.320 And it happens anyway in politics. Politics becomes you know, 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.480 in extreme sport when there's when there's real on the 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.520 line versus theoretical power in the form of being an 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.560 official opposition right. And we even saw that in smaller 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.479 parties in the IFP when they got positions you know, 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.840 in municipalities. We even saw it to some degree in 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.520 the EFF where they started governing through coalition in Johannesburg 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:25.239 and Ecuornic for example. Power changes, power dynamics, and so 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.200 the das are not immune to that, and I do 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:32.760 think that it's going to be quite fascinating to see 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.399 how that plays out. The point that I've argued today 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.560 Homoso is that it could have been a lot more constructive. 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.200 Yep, we've got freelance journalists Creator Hunter talking us through 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.680 her column on the DA's press briefing at the weekend 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:54.199 and they position now in the GNU. She calls it 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.080 a performative outrage. What else she got a tantrum? You 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.400 call the tantrums. I've been calling it throwing toys out 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.080 the cut and really it all means the same thing. 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:08.600 You know this, This really does seem very performative by 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.320 the DA, and I think we've all been wondering what 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.639 this announcement not to be part of the National Dialogue 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.320 actually means. We are taking your contributions on zero double one, 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.760 doua A three seven oh two, So please give us 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.560 a call. I am seeing some of your sms is 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.399 on the SMS line on ey time before I let 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:32.480 you go. The summation of your column really is questioning 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.920 what this announcement on the National Dialogue actually does or mean. 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.680 But there's a second threat, so to speak, quote unquote 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.080 threat by the DA where they basically say they won't 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:47.280 be voting voting, or they'll be voting down. I should say, 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:51.360 the budgets of ministers that they deem to be corrupt. 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:57.680 Isn't that a little more serious a threat than the initial. 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.120 Yeah, it is. And so it creates a. 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:04.840 Situation where the ANC cannot be comfortable that in the 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:09.280 Government of National Unity all of the partners would support 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:10.639 it and would have to do what it did for 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.880 the budget, which is make individual deals a case by 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.000 case with other mpace to make sure they have the 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:22.200 majority to pass the budgets. And again it creates a 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.520 cogmya for the ANC in some ways to say, then, for. 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:28.360 What reason are we. 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.679 Sort of blending power if you like, to the Democratic 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.800 Alliance in the form of those thirteen executive positions, Because 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.879 the understanding of the GNU and the statement of intend 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:47.639 which is often invoked, is that the DA will then 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:53.200 vote and pass legislation and support, et cetera. So it 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:59.400 creates the room for the ANC, unprovoked or provoked rather 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.800 or not not not self provoked at least, to say, 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.760 then what do we need them for if if if 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:12.199 it keeps you know, if the if the sort of 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.680 you know, the the barriers or the keep changing. And 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.119 so definitely there were discussions already in the African National 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:26.280 Congress about national working committee meeting about what this means. 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:32.280 But there will definitely be an agitation in the any 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:40.240 C when it meets quite soon about whether whether they 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:44.199 should just you know, eventually pull the trigger. And just 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:46.880 like the d A in the A n C, there 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:52.320 is that sort of uh crust between those who believe, 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:54.920 you know, having the d A with the n C 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.600 in government is good for the country, and they're those 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.000 who are ehomintally opposed to it. And so this thing 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:05.720 she ates on both sides the appetite for. 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:06.560 A relook of it. 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:11.240 But again, as we've seen with the multiple iterations of 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:14.200 this before, whether you know, like I said, it was 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.480 budget or before that expropriation, before that bella, et cetera, 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:22.919 is that it comes down to the ANC saying we 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.520 are not going to get rid of them and be 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:30.120 blamed for the collapse of government as we know it, 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:32.160 and the DA saying, well, we're not going to leave 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:36.320 it willingly. So you know, who actually pulls the trigger 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:38.639 becomes the interesting point. 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:40.840 I'm going to wrap this up with a question that 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:43.719 maybe I should have started with, and that question is 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:48.040 whether you think we are a step closer towards the 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:51.560 end of this GNU. 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:55.679 I think just as a function of time, Yes, because 0:22:56.160 --> 0:23:00.000 remember this this doesn't outlast I think in its currenty 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:07.200 relation the the you know, much after the local government elections. 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:08.720 Right again, the. 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:14.440 Incentive for parties are essentially just you know, to use 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:16.600 it as a as a mechanism to show the election 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:19.159 to what they can do with with limited power. So 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:22.520 hopefully the elected will extend that power. Right And so 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:30.080 I think that it's healthy like you know, throw tantrums 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:34.040 right like the you know, that's that's the nature of 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:40.520 coalition politics. It's exactly that push and pull and compromise, 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:44.320 and it's just up to you to decide whether you 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:46.959 want it to your participation to be constructive or not. 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:49.760 And that's not something I was going to hunt a 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:52.560 yo Homoso can dictate to the DA. The DA has 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:56.560 to decide for itself. And given the reaction even from 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:00.840 DA supporters to say you need to decide whether you're 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:03.679 going to be a hardline or not, you can't threaten 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:05.479 to be a heart to take a hard line position 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:11.879 and then kind of you know, try to negotiate your 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:14.480 way down and try to make it seem that you're 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:18.919 flexing your muscle when there's actually nothing there, So it 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:25.199 really is about whether or not the theatrics benefit the 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:28.000 country or benefit the DA, And from where I'm standing, 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:32.040 it benefits nobody, not even the DA's only electric because 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:35.680 as we know, there's only so many times you can 0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:36.399