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Speaker 1: Earning questions, insightful answers, listeners choice with Clemens Mana Tela.

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Speaker 1: So Listener's Choice is all about you curating the content

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Speaker 1: of the show with us. So you call curate the

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Speaker 1: content with us, because we've got five days of the

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Speaker 1: week where we think about, Okay, what would our listeners

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Speaker 1: like us to talk about? But Listener's Choice is a

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Speaker 1: feature that we have used over the last six years

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Speaker 1: of this show to try and get you to tell

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Speaker 1: us what you want us to talk about, because sometimes

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Speaker 1: there's stuff you know that's not on our radar. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: we just don't have enough time to discuss everything else

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Speaker 1: under the sun, and some of the things may be

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Speaker 1: important to you. So if you've got a topic that

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Speaker 1: you feel we haven't sufficiently discussed, or a conversation you

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Speaker 1: feel is much needed, or maybe you want to understand

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Speaker 1: something a lot better, you want us to bring in experts,

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Speaker 1: just send me an email, shall you will you please

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Speaker 1: on CM at seven o two dot z seem at

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Speaker 1: seven o two dot ZEA and tell us what you

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Speaker 1: want us to discuss and why and what are some

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Speaker 1: of the questions you have and then a promise will

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Speaker 1: bring in the relevant people to come and clarify that

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Speaker 1: issue for you. Today we're talking about the issue of

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Speaker 1: tenants because one of our listeners asked that we discussed

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Speaker 1: today the issue of tenants rights and responsibilities in South

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Speaker 1: Africa and South Africa of course, continues to grapple with

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Speaker 1: a deepening cost of living crisis. The pressure is mounting

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Speaker 1: on ordinary civilians. You've got millions of people who rent

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Speaker 1: their homes, right that pressure is being felt most acutely

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Speaker 1: so from rising rental prices, shrinking household incomes, to on

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Speaker 1: going disputes with landlords. There are many tenants out there

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Speaker 1: that are navigating and increasingly fragile and at times the

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Speaker 1: uncertain housing landscape. And for some it's a fear of

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Speaker 1: sudden eviction. And maybe for you it's an unexplained rental increase,

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Speaker 1: or they've withheld your deposit, or you're being locked out

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Speaker 1: and you feel that it's an unfair leasagreement, or maybe

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Speaker 1: you don't even fully even understand that lease agreement. And

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Speaker 1: the tough thing is that we do have legislation in

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Speaker 1: place that regulates the rental market, right, but the reality

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Speaker 1: is that many tenants are either unaware of their rights

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Speaker 1: or they're unable to enforce them. And it's this gap

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Speaker 1: between what the law says and what happens in practice

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Speaker 1: that often leaves some of you as renters vulnerable to expectation,

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Speaker 1: particularly in lower income communities and informal rental arrangements. So

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Speaker 1: what exactly are your rights as a tenant in South

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Speaker 1: Africa and what can you do if you're facing eviction

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Speaker 1: or unfair treatment or financial pressure from your landlord. Are

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Speaker 1: the current laws even doing enough to protect you as

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Speaker 1: a renter in this rapidly changing economic environment. Those are

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Speaker 1: some of the questions that our guest will take us through.

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Speaker 1: If you've got more questions you want to ask, give

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Speaker 1: us a call on oh one eighty three h seven

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Speaker 1: oh two or sender what's up on seven two seven

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Speaker 1: oh two one seven o two and Suet Max is

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Speaker 1: an attorney and director at VDM Attorneys who's going to

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Speaker 1: guide us through this chair. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: making time for us, and good morning, good.

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Speaker 2: Morning playman, thank you for having me. It's always always

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Speaker 2: good to have a chat with you guys and inform

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Speaker 2: the members of the public on their rights and responsibility.

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Speaker 2: So looking forward to the chat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's start with the basics. What are the most

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Speaker 1: important rights that every single tenant in this country should

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Speaker 1: know that the most basic ones basic.

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Speaker 2: Rights is you remember the law will protect both parties,

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Speaker 2: and well my provision for the rights and responsibilities of

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Speaker 2: both parties. But some of the most basic rights of

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Speaker 2: a tenant will be that you need to be able

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Speaker 2: to actually rent a property that is in a habitable condition,

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Speaker 2: meaning it needs to be in a condition that is

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Speaker 2: accessible for you to live in, for you to you know,

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Speaker 2: use the property for whatever you will require it for.

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Speaker 2: In the written leads agreement there will be my provision

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Speaker 2: for for the rights of the tenants, albeit norvis communal

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Speaker 2: areas and the property that you can or cannot use,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. But the most important one will be and

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Speaker 2: the most basic one is if you be the property,

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Speaker 2: it needs to be habitable living conditions. So the property

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Speaker 2: must be safe and it must be maintained. Also, a

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Speaker 2: lands cannot direct the tenant without a court order, even

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Speaker 2: if the rint is unpaced. That's also a very basic

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Speaker 2: right because it's a big thing that we're getting. What

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Speaker 2: is the noted spirit that the landlord must give me?

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Speaker 2: Can they evict me without a corte order, and in

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Speaker 2: my view, you know, can they cut off my water

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Speaker 2: and electricity for unpaid rent? I think, lemon, if I

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Speaker 2: need to list the top three questions that we're getting

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Speaker 2: is what if I'm in a in a in a

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Speaker 2: in a property that is not an habitable living condition?

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Speaker 2: What if they want to try to evict me without

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Speaker 2: a corte order? Or what if they cut off my

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Speaker 2: water electricity? Or maybe no change my locks because I

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Speaker 2: haven't paid rint. I think those are the three main things.

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Speaker 2: And they cannot change your locks. They cannot cut off

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Speaker 2: your water electricity without a court order, again, one of

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Speaker 2: the most basic rights in the court of law. Yere

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Speaker 2: currently okay?

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Speaker 1: And in your experience, where do tenants most often get

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Speaker 1: taken advantage off?

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Speaker 2: In my view, I think it is not just not

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Speaker 2: really a problem regarding of the living conditions.

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Speaker 1: I think it's.

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Speaker 2: Landlords not following the proper eviction process. Let's say, for example,

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Speaker 2: you have an issue where the rent is currently unpaid.

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Speaker 2: I think landlords what we see is they're not giving

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Speaker 2: adequate notice. The Alienation of Land Act, the Prevention of

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Speaker 2: Illegal Evictions Act, or my provision for a thirty day

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Speaker 2: notice period that your landlord must give you. They're not

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Speaker 2: allowed to give you a seven day or a ten

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Speaker 2: day period to vacate the property. That must give you

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Speaker 2: a calendar month's notice. So I can see some of

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Speaker 2: those rumblings, and then I must be honest if you

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Speaker 2: some of the other rumblings that we see, and one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest issues is with the posits either not

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Speaker 2: being returned or unfair deductions being made without any proper justification.

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Speaker 2: We also see, you know, the least agreement stating which

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Speaker 2: the responsibilities are for the landlord, which are for the tenant,

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Speaker 2: and then the time the reposit needs to be returned,

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Speaker 2: suddenly we have these illegal or unlawful deductions made for

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Speaker 2: maintenance that the landlord is you know, elating. The tenant

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Speaker 2: needs to be all responsible. So I think the two

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Speaker 2: main problems unlawful processes and evictions not following the correct process,

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Speaker 2: and definitely people not getting the deposits back, unfair deductions

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Speaker 2: or you know, even if the deposit was mybe not

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Speaker 2: even not even deposited into an interest bearing account, which

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Speaker 2: it must be. And sometimes tenants are coming to me saying, well,

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Speaker 2: I received exactly the reposit I've paid and I rented

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Speaker 2: there for five six years and no interest grew on

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Speaker 2: that deposited.

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Speaker 1: Well, oh, that's so I don't even know that part.

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Speaker 2: You must the Rental Housing Tribunal and the Rental Housing

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Speaker 2: Act makes specific provision that a landlord must invent the

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Speaker 2: deposit in an interest bearing account and you must get

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Speaker 2: you interess back on that as well.

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Speaker 1: No, perfect, Thank you so much for actually explaining what

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Speaker 1: lendlands legally are required to do with that tenants deposit. Well,

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Speaker 1: what about the issue of increasing rent because with the

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Speaker 1: rise and cost of living, I mean, there are many

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Speaker 1: tenants that are really struggling. And are there any limits

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Speaker 1: then to how much landlords can increase rent? And what

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Speaker 1: recosts do you tenants have if they feel the rental

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Speaker 1: increase is unfair.

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Speaker 2: So the basic thing that we need to remember is

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Speaker 2: a lease agreement. That's what guards you on if I'm

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Speaker 2: renting a property for let's specifically a year, that is

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Speaker 2: the lease agreement that guards you on what the rent

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Speaker 2: will be for that year. Us the landlord cannot in

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Speaker 2: a lattery increase your rent if not both parties have

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Speaker 2: agreed upon it, and if the change isn't made in writing.

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Speaker 2: Now in South African law, there isn't a fixed legal

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Speaker 2: cap on how much raint and landlord can increase. But

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Speaker 2: I'm now meaning, you know, let's say, for example, the

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Speaker 2: lease agreement that has come to an end, the tenant

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Speaker 2: wants to renew the lease, and now the landlord wants

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Speaker 2: to increase the lease again. But if there's an increase,

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Speaker 2: it needs to be reasonable and agree to buy both parties,

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Speaker 2: and it needs to be writing. Most these agreements will

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Speaker 2: specify when and how increases can happen. It is often annually,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes it's linked to a percentage. That's I think

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Speaker 2: the most common case is currently. But if the lease

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Speaker 2: is silent, any increase discussed between the landlords and the

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Speaker 2: tenants still needs to be fair and it cannot exploit

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Speaker 2: the tenant as well. I'm one hundred percent aware of

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Speaker 2: you know, increasing costs and inflation and all of that.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent aware that the landlords were also like

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Speaker 2: and also need sometimes to increase the rent to also

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Speaker 2: you know, either get to their bond and mortgage repayments, etc.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, as long as

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Speaker 2: that lease is in place for that year, the land

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Speaker 2: blop cannot you know, latterly increase it during that time

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Speaker 2: only once the lease lapses, both parties can have the discussion.

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Speaker 2: It needs to be agreed and it needs to be

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Speaker 2: in writing or the lease agreement will have either a

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Speaker 2: specific percentage or some indication when the lease will go up.

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Speaker 2: And unfortunately, the tenant obviously agrees to any lease or

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Speaker 2: any rental increases beforehand when signing that lease agreement. As well,

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Speaker 2: if the tenant feels that the increase is excessive, they

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Speaker 2: can approach the rental housing tribunal in their province to

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Speaker 2: also assist whether it is reasonable or not.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's eighteen minutes after eleven o'clock. What questions do

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Speaker 1: you have for? Answered Marx. She is an attorney and

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Speaker 1: director and at Vidum Attorneys, helping us understand what your

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Speaker 1: rights are as a tenant, but also responsibilities as well.

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Speaker 1: So if you've got your own questions or maybe there's

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Speaker 1: an issue you're facing, it's trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: do I deal with this? Call us or send us

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Speaker 1: a what's a voice note? I'll start with your calls

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Speaker 1: and WhatsApps after the break, earning questions, insightful answers listener's

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Speaker 1: choice with Clements Manela twenty one minutes after eleven o clock.

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Speaker 1: Anne Seward marxis an attorney and director at VDM Attorneys,

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Speaker 1: guiding us through this conversation about tenants rights and responsibilities

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Speaker 1: in South Africa. When I give you an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: also ask your own burning questions, Let's start with what's

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Speaker 1: up voice notes on seven two seven or two one

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Speaker 1: seven oh two.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Clement, I hear the fact that's tenants of good rights,

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Speaker 3: but they also forget that even ask then loads of

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Speaker 3: good rights. I've got a tenant who doesn't want pay

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Speaker 3: rent and they appear saying that they've got rights. What what?

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Speaker 3: I can't kick them out?

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Speaker 1: They've got rights and the others.

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Speaker 3: A crement is expiring month and so they're taken advantage

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Speaker 3: of that. They don't to take they want to pay me.

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Speaker 3: You understand soon else would I do as a landlaw today?

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Speaker 3: Because there's good dates, I feel like it's unfair.

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Speaker 1: Oh and of course as a landlord you've got rights yourself.

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Speaker 1: And maybe this is an opportunity for us to on

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Speaker 1: the flip side speak about the responsibilities that tenants also

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Speaker 1: need to uphold.

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Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, Like we mentioned when we started the discussion,

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Speaker 2: the law makes revision for the right responsibilities for both

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Speaker 2: tenants and landlords. This is not a free for all way.

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Speaker 2: Just because you have certain rights as a tenant, you

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Speaker 2: can remain in a property you know without paying rent.

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Speaker 2: The landlord does have certain legal recourses as well, because

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Speaker 2: rights apply to both tenants and landlords, So a tenant

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Speaker 2: does not have the right to stay in a property

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Speaker 2: and simply not by rent. Paying rent is the core

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Speaker 2: of the entire obligation under the lease agreement. If the

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Speaker 2: if a tenant does not pay rent, the landlord will

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Speaker 2: be entitled to take action. But like I've mentioned, as

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Speaker 2: long as it's done through the proper legal process. That

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Speaker 2: means you can't lock them out or cut off any

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Speaker 2: utilities of services, but you can cancel the lease for

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Speaker 2: their breach of the contract. You give them the correct

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Speaker 2: three days required notice depending on you know, if we're

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Speaker 2: dealing with a commercial eviction, residential eviction, etc. Because those

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Speaker 2: timelines can change and can vary, and then you approach

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Speaker 2: the court for an eviction order. You can also claim

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Speaker 2: damages for the unpaid rent, so you can seek their

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Speaker 2: rear rental as well. Tenants have right right, but they

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Speaker 2: have also responsibilities. The key takeaway is always the law

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Speaker 2: protects fairness, do not abuse it, and do not think

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Speaker 2: that it falls to the benefit of only one side.

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Speaker 2: Your tenis still needs to pay. But if you, as

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Speaker 2: a landlord take the proper procedure, then the legal recourse

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Speaker 2: will be there available for you. And that is where

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Speaker 2: your rights are secured as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, got that, and then there's another there's a question

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Speaker 1: here on the what's up blind attacks that says hih Clement.

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Speaker 1: Please can you ask that Girst if an estate agent

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Speaker 1: may charge the tenant and administration fee to renew at least.

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Speaker 2: Annually, all right, so during new at least annually. What

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Speaker 2: you're looking at is now we're moving into the Property

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Speaker 2: Practitioners Regulatory Authority, meaning the ppr I and their court

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Speaker 2: of contexts, their rules and their regulations as well as

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Speaker 2: their legislation. In South African law, an estate agent cannot

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Speaker 2: just charge an administration or a newer fee to a

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Speaker 2: tenant unless the fee was clearly agreed upon upfront in

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Speaker 2: the lease agreement. But the general principle will be that

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Speaker 2: tenant should not be you know, especially should not be

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Speaker 2: lead to have an unexpected or reoccurring charges that they

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Speaker 2: didn't agree to. Even if such a clause in the

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Speaker 2: lease agreement will exists, it still needs to be reasonable

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Speaker 2: and it cannot be excessive. So, for example, Iver then

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Speaker 2: ensigned the lease that says that there're a newal fee

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Speaker 2: each each year. That is enforceable. But if it just

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Speaker 2: suddenly appears that it was never agreed upon beforehand, that

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Speaker 2: can maybe maybe deemed as unlawful and unfazed. So the

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Speaker 2: giveaway is if there's no agreement, they cannot be a

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Speaker 2: fee charge, and even if there's a fee charge, it

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Speaker 2: still needs to be reasonable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and another one says Clement, please ask the expert

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Speaker 1: there why municipalities do not get caught orders to terminate

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Speaker 1: water or electricity when there are outstanding rates. If landlords

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Speaker 1: cant teraminate services to tenants with outstanding rentals, and yet

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Speaker 1: municipalities terminate services that will cause houses to be neglected

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Speaker 1: or abandoned as the landlord won't effort to pay. So

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Speaker 1: the question there is around why municipalities do not get

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Speaker 1: involved and get orders to determinate what our electricity when

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Speaker 1: the outstanding rates.

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Speaker 2: This is a very real concern clement that we're dealing with.

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Speaker 2: But there is it is a very important distinction that

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Speaker 2: must be made here. Municipalities and landlords are not in

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Speaker 2: the same legal position. A municipality provides the services in

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Speaker 2: terms of its statutory powers, and under certain conditions it

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Speaker 2: may be lawful. You know, they can lawfully limit or

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Speaker 2: disconnect services for non payment of municipal accounts. However, a

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Speaker 2: landlord is a that's a private contractual relationship with the

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Speaker 2: tenant and the landlord. If they got off electricity or

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Speaker 2: water or utilities, that can be deemed as the landlord

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Speaker 2: taking the law into use or her own hands. And

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Speaker 2: this is also amounting to an illegal eviction tactic, which

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Speaker 2: is also unlawful. That's being said, landlords again are not

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Speaker 2: without remedies. If you don't buy your utilities, or you

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Speaker 2: don't buy your rent again, land or can cancel the leaves,

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Speaker 2: climb the areas and approach the court for eviction. But

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Speaker 2: what we need to understand is this listener that does

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Speaker 2: rise the questions. Maybe you know seen instances where the

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Speaker 2: municipalities do not tye coote orders or do not actually

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Speaker 2: approach the court. We have a different view. We have

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Speaker 2: seen the instances where the municipality actually does disconnect the

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Speaker 2: service or lawfully limits it due to non payments, where

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Speaker 2: they actually do approach the court. So it's not a

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Speaker 2: six guise of the municipalities or not tyking action. And

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Speaker 2: it's also not a case that the municipality will definitely

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Speaker 2: tyke action. We have seen in certain regions, for example,

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Speaker 2: where municipalities only intervene once accounts or one hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: rounded up in area. So it is a little bit

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Speaker 2: of a threshold to say they're not going to just

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Speaker 2: disconnect for ten thousand round or five thousand round understanding,

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Speaker 2: but the moment you're looking at our hundred thousand round

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Speaker 2: two hundred thousand rands, you know, and those damages are

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Speaker 2: just reoccurring, then it is definitely some thing where we

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Speaker 2: have seen the municipalities do take action.

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Speaker 1: All right, here's the last voice, not clemens.

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Speaker 4: I personally believe that the tenants have too much rights.

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Speaker 4: They are taking advantage of the system. They know there's

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Speaker 4: delaying courts, and for you to evict a tenant as

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Speaker 4: a landlord for non payment, it takes absolutely long, and

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Speaker 4: the tenant doesn't have to pay you what happens to

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Speaker 4: the bond, what happens to other expenses, lights, water rates

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Speaker 4: that you as a tenant have to pay, Sorry, you

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Speaker 4: as a landlord have to pay. What happens to all

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Speaker 4: of those things. This law giving these tenants these rights

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Speaker 4: did not take that into consideration. The courts unfortunately there's

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Speaker 4: delays there and I know it's not the falce of

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Speaker 4: the tenant for whatever reason, but the impact is massive

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Speaker 4: to the landlord. The impact is massive that it's unfair,

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Speaker 4: It's absolutely unfair.

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Speaker 1: And I'm getting a lot of those kind of messages

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Speaker 1: and from some people who are saying but also tenants

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Speaker 1: don't sometimes are responsible and remember their responsibilities, and they

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Speaker 1: always take advantage of the legal system which favors them,

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Speaker 1: and it ends up being too costly on the lend lot.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Clement, I, we have a very very very strong

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Speaker 2: eviction bise within very in incorporated. We have extremely competent

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Speaker 2: and experienced eviction lawyers, which I must in all honestly

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Speaker 2: say that when we see how his name is Jason

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Speaker 2: barkovisionist team, when we see how Jason runs his evictions,

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Speaker 2: you know he runs it so efficiently and so effectively

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Speaker 2: that yes, it can still be a costly process. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it can be a time consuming process. And I one

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Speaker 2: thousand percent understand the frustration of this listener when he says,

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Speaker 2: what happens to the mortgage bond because the moment you're

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Speaker 2: not getting rained, you need to pay that to that

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Speaker 2: mortgage bond out of your own pocket, the meaning that

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Speaker 2: you are at a loss. But it's very very important

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Speaker 2: to understand again that nonpayment is a breach of the

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Speaker 2: lease agreement and the landlords are entitled to act. However,

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Speaker 2: you need to act within the parameters of the law

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Speaker 2: so that you are not pre up in an unlawful eviction.

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Speaker 2: You're going to follow the parameters and the principles of

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Speaker 2: the Prevention of the Legal Eviction Act, which is also

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Speaker 2: the PI Act. And I can tell you that if

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Speaker 2: I see how efficiently Jason is running it, I do

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Speaker 2: understand a contact tim, I do understand legal fees are involved.

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Speaker 2: I understand the landlord is losing the fund, etc. But

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Speaker 2: your papers need to be an order. You need to

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Speaker 2: have a very very proactive lawyer, and this has been

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Speaker 2: what I have because we've shared a couple of videos

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Speaker 2: on this subject as well, where we've assisted many landlords

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Speaker 2: on this where people have asked the same question, where

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Speaker 2: I've said, make you have an experience a proactive lawyer.

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Speaker 2: You cannot have an attorney who's not specialized in evictions

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Speaker 2: and property lord dealing with your eviction because they don't

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Speaker 2: know where the pet falls are. If they're not experienced,

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Speaker 2: they don't know where the then and usually trying to

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Speaker 2: take you know, some of the shortsuts and try to

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Speaker 2: delay and you know, try to to to win sometime,

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Speaker 2: so you must a lot will fall stand and forward

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Speaker 2: your attorney. But there are remedies for the landlords. It

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Speaker 2: just needs to be done correctly.

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Speaker 1: Got you and swert Max, You've been great. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for making time for us. She's an attorney

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Speaker 1: and director at Vidam Attorneys.