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Speaker 1: The Money Show take Thursday.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's now believed that around the world five hundred

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Speaker 2: and sixty million people, well over half a billion now

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Speaker 2: are owners of cryptocurrency and it's being viewed as an

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Speaker 2: investment here around the world. Now SARS has said tax

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Speaker 2: must be paid on your crypto investments. But haackers seem

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Speaker 2: to be increasingly targeting crypto. In fact, one decentralized finance company, Drift,

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Speaker 2: has suspended all of its withdrawal of cryptos as a result.

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Speaker 2: Seepumelele Zondis Arteca experts prol Good evening. Why has Drift

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Speaker 2: blocked people from withdrawing their crypto? I can't imagine the frustration,

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Speaker 2: Hello Stephen, and yes, the Drift has basically blocked all transactions.

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Speaker 1: That are happening for they're saying that that currently is

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Speaker 1: a live of breach that's going on, So if it's live,

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Speaker 1: is currently ongoing, and that's why they've decided to do this.

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Speaker 1: And there's a belief that for example, Aesthetic, which is

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Speaker 1: a blockchain security firm, has said that they believe that

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Speaker 1: as much as one hundred and thirty six million US

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Speaker 1: dollars could have been stolen already, and that figure is

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Speaker 1: almost or over double that. In the estimation that's out Come,

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Speaker 1: which is a crypto and an lytics company that they

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Speaker 1: put out, they say close to three hundred million US

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Speaker 1: dollars could have been stolen already. So because it is

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Speaker 1: live and it seems to have been currently ongoing, they

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Speaker 1: decided that they're blocking just about everyone and anyone from

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Speaker 1: withdrawing anything from their platform.

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Speaker 2: Has there been a big increase in the attacks that

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Speaker 2: are sort of targeting crypto in this way? I mean,

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Speaker 2: has it become the sort of thing that people do

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Speaker 2: and we know that crime changes very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Oh totally. There is an increase that that's been happening

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, to the point that

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Speaker 1: the United Nations decided to put together a working group

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Speaker 1: that's was looking at the increase because the thing that

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Speaker 1: it sort of threatens even relations between countries and securities,

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Speaker 1: international security as well if this continues to happen. So

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Speaker 1: there is an increase that has even been noted by

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Speaker 1: the United Nations and this could actually potentially be probably

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Speaker 1: the biggest breach of crypto that that's happened since people

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Speaker 1: started trading in crypto.

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Speaker 2: Sure, I mean that really does make it quite a thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is always the same question, how does

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Speaker 2: it happen? Everyone tells us crypto is supposed to be

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Speaker 2: so safe. I mean, does someone steal a code, does

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Speaker 2: someone I don't know slip something into a tequila. It's

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Speaker 2: a very strange thing.

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Speaker 1: So basically it seems like these are organizations that there's

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Speaker 1: a huge belief. Even the United Nations says this, and

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Speaker 1: there a few analytics and companies that look into this.

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Speaker 1: There's a belief that there's a lot of these companies.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the majority, they say come from the country

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Speaker 1: of North Korea, which can't get money in any other way.

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Speaker 1: And so what they do is to find these big

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Speaker 1: firms or crypto exchanges, and they sit on there and

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Speaker 1: then they infiltrated through uh IT, through individuals that could

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Speaker 1: be there, or through particular by sending by sending them codes.

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Speaker 1: And also there have even been people on the ground,

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Speaker 1: food soldiers that have been utilized, especially in the US,

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Speaker 1: where they people have been arrested for doing this type

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Speaker 1: of work in the US, where there would plant somebody

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Speaker 1: through a computer and then they find one computer and

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Speaker 1: then they infultrate the organization through that computer to move

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Speaker 1: money out of your of your walnuts.

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Speaker 2: Sure. So when I've been hacked and there was a

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Speaker 2: Disney hack year a couple of years ago, and I

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Speaker 2: realized one Black Friday, not the last one, the one before,

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Speaker 2: a large amount of money had left my credit card.

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Speaker 2: I was able to the bank. The bank paid me

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Speaker 2: back the next morning once I once I pointed this out,

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Speaker 2: and I was I did it as quickly as I could,

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Speaker 2: and that was I was told. Because the money was

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Speaker 2: sort of still in the banking system, it's quite easy

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Speaker 2: for the bank to.

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Speaker 1: Get it back.

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Speaker 2: With crypto, it's a very different system. Once the money's gone,

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Speaker 2: the money's gone. So what happens in a case like.

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Speaker 1: This a lot of people lose their money and never

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Speaker 1: to actually get it back. And the interesting thing is

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Speaker 1: that you can see the movements, so you can see

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Speaker 1: that it's actually moved out of there, went in there.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, you can't really do anything

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Speaker 1: about it because it's centralized. And how crypto has always

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Speaker 1: been pitched to us is that it is beautiful because

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Speaker 1: one it's decentralized, it's controlled by humans, it's not controlled

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Speaker 1: by central government. But these could be the dangers, right

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Speaker 1: because with the increase in the hacks that go that

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Speaker 1: are going on right now, the theft of crypto that's

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Speaker 1: currently going on, you can't really get it back, and

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Speaker 1: once it's gone, it's gone a lot of the time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's why it's so attractive to North Korea

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Speaker 2: and why it's so hard to sort of bust them

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Speaker 2: in the process. And if you do, if it's backed

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Speaker 2: by the North Korean government and all the evidence points

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Speaker 2: that way, they're not going to care.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. And there have been cases where

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Speaker 1: it hasn't been just the North Koreans yesterday they seem

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Speaker 1: to have been found to be responsible for most of it.

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Speaker 1: There have been several cases, especially in the US, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of this happens in the US. Several cases

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Speaker 1: where as citizens of the US have been found. I

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Speaker 1: remember one case of young people in their twenties, but

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Speaker 1: how they were quarters that they decided to buy private

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Speaker 1: aeroplanes and they were spending money in nightclubs and they

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Speaker 1: were giving money away for free, and that's how they

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Speaker 1: got caught. So there are individuals who also in their

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Speaker 1: own personal capacity, would decide to do this kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: But yes, that's why it's attracted to North Korea because

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Speaker 1: no one can. It doesn't sit somewhere where it can

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Speaker 1: then say as us saying when you had your issue

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Speaker 1: with your banks, either are your banks, it hasn't really

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Speaker 1: gone out yet, it's waiting to go out, so we

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Speaker 1: can give it. And also because it's insured in that

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Speaker 1: particular manner in this case, it's not inshored. So once

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Speaker 1: it's gone, it's gone, and it can be utilized in

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Speaker 1: whichever either way in a different territory.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so this was a cyber hack. We presume there

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Speaker 2: are other crimes that involve the theft of crypto. How

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Speaker 2: have those happened? I mean someone going along sort of

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Speaker 2: trying to steal USB sticks and things.

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Speaker 1: Well, gee, it seems like there's also been in some

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Speaker 1: European countries an increase in kidnappings where they would kidnapping individual.

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Speaker 1: Obviously they follow them, they do know that they have

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Speaker 1: crypto because there are a number of crypto millionaires nowadays,

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Speaker 1: and then once they've kidnapped the individual, they then force

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Speaker 1: them to move their crypto out of their walnuts and

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Speaker 1: move it into whoever the kidnappers are. And so the

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Speaker 1: various methods that are being used, and some of them

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Speaker 1: are quite physical and some of them do harm to

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Speaker 1: the body of a person as well, whether they're asking

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Speaker 1: you to move money yourself because they've gotten an older

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Speaker 1: and it's not cyber crime as it has been in

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Speaker 1: this case, as it has been in very many cases.

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Speaker 2: So when a crime like this happens, I mean Drift

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Speaker 2: says that it's been hacked, how easy is it to

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Speaker 2: solve by law enforcement? I mean, once the people of

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Speaker 2: the money is at the end.

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Speaker 1: Of it, it's not very easy, especially in a situation

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Speaker 1: like this. And that's why as the United Nations in

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Speaker 1: its reports with this working group, they're calling for almost

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Speaker 1: like a different countries and course border initiatives that are

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Speaker 1: going to try and help and solve such crimes from happening.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure how easy it is if you are

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Speaker 1: dealing as they've said that most of them happened from

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Speaker 1: the country of North Korea, which is a state that's

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Speaker 1: basically clows off from much of the world. Not sure

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Speaker 1: how easy it is if it's going to involve the

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Speaker 1: North Koreans. But if it involves individuals and organizations and

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Speaker 1: groups in other countries, then maybe it does need that

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Speaker 1: sort of cooperation between various countries, because what would be

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Speaker 1: happening is that they're targeting individuals possibly who are based

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Speaker 1: in a different country where different laws apply, and that's

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Speaker 1: why then there needs to be cooperation with law and

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Speaker 1: between law enforcement in various countries.

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Speaker 2: So when something like this happens to drift right and

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Speaker 2: it has to eventually suspend all of the crypto withdrawals,

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Speaker 2: it has to explain why this has happened. I mean,

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Speaker 2: isn't this going to be the end of a company?

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Speaker 2: I would think.

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Speaker 1: You would think, because that be a lot of trust

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Speaker 1: that would be lost as well, because whatever you investing

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Speaker 1: that you were using them for you and you expected

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Speaker 1: that that restoring your crypto and it would be safe.

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Speaker 1: So that is that loss of trust, especially as it's

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Speaker 1: the biggest hack, possibly because they did say that it

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Speaker 1: was currently ongoing. We're not sure how much damage is

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Speaker 1: going to be caused in the end. There isn't as

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Speaker 1: a that puts us to close three hundred million US

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Speaker 1: dollars already, so a lot of class would be lost,

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Speaker 1: and yes, it's going to impact them quite negatively, and

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Speaker 1: if they still want to stay alive, then that'd be

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Speaker 1: going back to individuals who would have lost, as we say,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of US dollars and say well stay

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Speaker 1: with us. Not sure how many people are going to

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Speaker 1: stay with a company that would have lost hundreds of

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Speaker 1: millions of years dollars of their investments with them.

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Speaker 2: No sure, super Malela Zondie, thanks so much, Really appreciate

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Speaker 2: the take. Expert. Just a little bit of a I

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Speaker 2: suppose a warning as always. I mean, this kind of

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Speaker 2: thing can happen to banks too, that's just the issues

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Speaker 2: around crypto are fascinating