WEBVTT - Consumer Talk: Are wet wipes flushable and biodegradable? 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:07.680 Lunch with Pippa Hudson, and now Consumer Talk featuring Wendy Nola. 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.720 Wendy with us in studio today for a conversation that 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.440 is going to be primarily focused on the scourge of 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:16.320 baby wipes that end up in our stormwater systems as 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:21.079 we interrogate claims of biodegradeability. So welcome and Wendy looking 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.160 forward to that. But first you've got a very happy 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.119 update for us on Philip's long battle to get to 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:27.639 see his granddaughter in Ireland. 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.040 Yes, I cannot over state our happy. This news made 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:35.640 me probably second only to Philip, because I've been talking 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.680 to him every day pretty much since we since last week. 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.000 So yes, at that stage he knew that his visa 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.319 had been granted, but of course it's useless unless it's 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.560 in your actual passport, and his passport had to be 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:54.360 courier hit to him in Virginia West, in the Northern Cape, 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.440 and by yesterday he didn't have it. He the company 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:03.360 that VFS, the company that's mandated to do the applications process, 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:08.000 they gave it to FedEx, and after that FedEx said 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:09.840 that'd given it to another company, wouldn't tell him who 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.240 that which company it was, so it was on the 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:15.560 phone phone. Long story short. He phoned me because he 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:20.040 had to leave his home yesterday and around lunchtime to 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:24.600 overnight in George and then fly to joe Burg and 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.600 then on to Dublin today. And so he had to 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:29.400 leave at one o'clock and two hours before he still 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.840 didn't have the passport, Propper, And then he phoned to 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.360 say he located It was with a courier company in George. 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.040 They it had been languishing in Durban and went there 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.160 by mistay, I know, can you believe it? Anyway, he 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.160 had to go to George, as I say, and he 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.520 picked it up. And today he sent me a photograph, 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.400 which I requested. And I didn't think with the whole 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.120 Russian drama of it all, he'd remember, but bless him, 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.880 he sent me a photographer from holding his passport. 0:01:54.000 --> 0:02:00.960 So he's on his way this evening. What a relief, 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:05.279 but what absolutely just in attitude. It is infuriating, Wendy. 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.880 And as we were just discussing, the infuriating part is 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:09.000 there's nothing we can. 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.480 Do about total powerlessness. Powerlessness. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.840 Yeah, that's what I mean, Philip, was you know, every 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.120 touch point that as the days went by, it became 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.400 more and more urgent, and it was the case of 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:23.600 don't call us, we'll call you. Of course we won't 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:25.960 and just leave it at that, and even with me 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.720 agitating on the VFS side, and it was like, oh, 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.320 the person who can answer to this is a way, 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:34.280 you know, just abroad and. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.360 The level of service speaks to their awareness of the 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.920 fact that they hold all the power in this relationship. 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:41.240 It really is very obvious. 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:41.480 Yea. 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:46.840 Anyway, so is a happy a very close call by 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.840 ours literally, but Philip got his passport with Visa Intact 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:51.440 and off he goes and we wish him a very 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.640 very happy trip to Ireland, Wendy. The other story we 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:56.840 want to follow up on is one that came in 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:01.200 last week. Tyrone sent us of WhatsApp about being affected 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.200 by an unexpected spa closure and I think rather than 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.840 let me summarize it, let's just replay for you what 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:08.440 Tyrone's message sent. 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:09.800 To us OBE. Can we take a listen to that 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:10.680 clip please. 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.480 And says I booked a spa day at the spa 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.280 on zieven Wacht State. I booked for the fourth of 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.120 booked on the fourth of July and paid my nine 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.400 hundred and ninety nine rand. They emailed me to confirm 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.800 and check our requirements for lunch. That was on the 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.560 fourth of July. On the ninth of July, received an 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.160 email to say there will be no more treatments. The 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:33.760 business has been sold. And then what do we do now? 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:35.560 Because this is the letter that he was sent. Due 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:39.200 to unforeseen circumstances, we've had to suspend all services until 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.760 further notice. We sincerely appreciate your loyalty and support over 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.480 the years. We're in the process of selling the business 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:50.160 and therefore cannot commit to any future bookings possible refund 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.880 I'll be communicated in due course. Thank you for your 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.760 understanding and patients. What does one do possible refunds? They 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.200 took a booking five days before announcing they were selling 0:03:59.240 --> 0:03:59.680 the business. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:01.800 Shocking, It's totally unconscionable. 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:03.720 They had to know that that that of course they 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:05.040 would not honor that book character. 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:06.480 So what does Tyrone do? 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.040 You send me an email with all the details and 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.520 I very nicely try and get told of this. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:13.760 That Infinity Wellness SPA. 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:18.279 Okay, thanks for that Obi now he did indeed, and 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.880 we also Tyrone wasn't the only one you heard from Ellis, 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.240 who's sent me a follow up what's at this afternoon? 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.119 Also very concerned and poor Ellis spent three nine hundred 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.719 round on a SPA voucher just two weeks before the 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.359 business sent out that's sorry, we're closing email. So in 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.000 exactly the same position as Tyrone Wendy, you've had some 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:37.760 further engagements in the past week. 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.800 Tell us what happened, sure, so, sevan Wacht directed. Denise 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:45.120 Johnson contacted me to share some background on the issue 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:47.560 back when I'm not sure the pronounce if. 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:48.839 I'm mutila, I think it was. 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.880 There's some of the letters dropped off here which had 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.279 recently branded as Infinity. She said, had least the premises 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.520 on the estate since twenty sixteen. While the estate was 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.320 or where that they were experiencing difficulties, mainly because they 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.039 were behind in their mental payments. They'd undertaken to pay 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.960 back the areas and business was expected to pick up 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:14.839 after the rebranding, and it came as a complete complete surprise, 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.120 Denise said to us last week when they announced the 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.960 immediate closure of the SPA. I think the management and 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.760 booking staff did not expect the closure and it seems 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.200 they were also taken by surprise. She said, we will 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.359 do everything that we can to assist the guests to 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.720 obtain a refund. I think it's important to note here 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.400 that there are a completely separate entity. 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:36.719 Not owned for us. They were renting space. 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.279 Yeah, So Denise later got back to me to say, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.760 I've had a very positive meeting with a potential new 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.920 SPA operator. If they're enter into an agreement with us 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:51.719 between the two companies that's the news Spa and Zevena, 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.159 we will attempt to honor all bookings that have not 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.080 been refunded. As I have no access to the database 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.720 or list of guests, we are keeping a record of 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.400 all inquiries that we receive. So I sent her Tyrone 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.880 and Ellis's details, so those are on the list, and 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.960 I think we can say that's that's a pretty good 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:10.719 glimmer of hope. 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:12.919 Well, I think that's very decent and a very nice attitude. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.600 Very decent of them, because neither nor the new Spa 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.720 owners have any obligation. Now, it wasn't their promise, it 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.000 wasn't them taking the money, but the fact that they 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.800 would like to restore the good will and restore that 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.760 service that was promised, I think is fantastic. So well 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.320 done to Zevinvacht and let's hope the new SPA operator 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:33.680 who comes in will continue with that attitude of honoring 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.599 the book. Book and the main thing here is to 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.280 let them know if you are impacted. So we have 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.200 Tyrone and Ellis's details and those have been passed on 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.680 to Zevin Vacht. Here's another one, Colleen saying we bought 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.000 a wiki deal's couple's massage but had not yet made 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.000 a booking. Colin, please send us an email. You can 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.279 mail it to straight to Wendy or you can mail 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.400 it to me if you prefer, if that's easier. And 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.040 we were forwarded onto Zevinvach to add you to the 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:02.960 list of those that they know they need to try 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:04.120 and accommodate. 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.479 Or in Colleen's case, she could go to that platform 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.600 and she would be entitled to the value of what 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.560 she paid for that voucher to be used, and that's 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:17.600 how those deals work, to be used on another offer 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.280 and it could be valid for three years because it's 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.800 a prepaid voucher would be valid for at least three years, 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:24.400 So that's another option for her. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.840 Okay, so Colleen, you either go back to Wiki deals 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:28.720 and say they can't honor this one that I bought. 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.080 Can I get a. 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.320 Equivalent value in sane vouchers to spend, or if you 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.560 would like to try and get onto the list to 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.040 be reaccommodated at the new SPA value venue, please do 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:42.400 pop me easiest tos pop me an email Pippa h 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.960 at Cape Talk dot co dot z and we'll make 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.360 sure it reaches Zevinvacht. And if anybody else listening is 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:50.600 in the same boat of having had a booking at 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.080 the whether it was still when it was called Baquena 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.120 or when it was rebranded as Infinity Spa, the one 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.960 on Zevinvacht estate which has now closed, and you wouldn't 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:01.880 we're not able to get a refund, Please let us 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.760 know so that we can pass that information on. Zevenbach 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.440 does not have access to the booking information that that 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.280 vacating SPA would have been in charge of, so it's 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.040 imperative that you reach out to them because they're not 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.520 able to reach out to you. I hope that's clear, 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.560 and Wendy, thank you very much for following up. I 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:21.560 hope that that is going to be a satisfactory solution 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.880 for all parties affected by this closure. Okay, and now 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.120 onto the main subject of the day, which is the 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.880 so called biodegradable wet wipes that aren't quite the green 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.760 wind some consumers might think they are. Wendy, You've done 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.560 some really deep digging and got some stats on how 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.120 many of them end up in our stormwater drainage systems, 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.360 in our rivers, washed up on our beaches. 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.000 It's absolutely horrifying. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.320 Yeah, So you've got two claims chat with these wet 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.240 wipes for perab ones, which say they're bad or gradable, 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.360 and the other that say they're flashable. Because wherever you're 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.040 using them on your body, that's how I mean. It's 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:03.720 mostly moist toilet issue, which a very yeah they're saying, 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.400 you know, they marketed as saying get cleaner sort of 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.960 thing and use the Yeah, and it's not a cheap process. 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:14.520 So you'd imagine they used by high end consumers who 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:21.400 fall for the marketing. So they cause significant blockages and 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:25.920 sewer systems globally, or wipes that are flushed, whatever their 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.319 marketing claim is, particularly in large cities, which lead to 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.560 costly repairs and obviously cause a lot of environmental damage. 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.480 So the City of Cape Ton's water and sanitation teams 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.240 listen to these numbers, had to attend to one thousand 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:43.800 and seventy two one thousand and seventy two sewer blockages 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.839 in Camps Bay, Bucko and Clifton and Cpoint between July 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.200 twenty twenty three and March of this year. 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:55.720 So over one thousand blockages in just those four suburbs. Yes, 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:57.480 in a space of not quite two years. 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.319 Yeah, okay. And one of the. 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.079 Main cause are these blockages. There's the City of Cape 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:06.000 Town or wear twaps being flushed down the toilet along 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.480 with some other items which do not belong in the 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.400 sewer system. The city doesn't care what that's what's said 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.840 on the package. Don't not toilet paper, if it's thicker 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.680 and whatever, then don't do it, is what they're saying. 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:21.480 And I suppose a's the ones that need to deal 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.439 with problem. They've got a right to say that, to 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:24.040 say that. 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:25.000 So okay. 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.480 So six thousand kilograms of waste removed from their sewer 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:32.600 pump station monthly, a lot of it wet wipes and wendy. 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:34.559 They've shared some photographs. 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.040 With us and we have shared those on our social 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.800 media platforms to just demonstrate and illustrate this. If you 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.040 do not believe us, or you are still operating under 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:46.360 the misperception that these are products which just go away 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:48.640 when you flush them away, I'll urge you to go 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:50.440 to our social media pages and take a look at 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.360 those photographs and see for yourself what is happening. 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.720 They're actually from the city's website and I was given 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.559 a link to them, so they're actually out there. I'm 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.920 sure a lot of people haven't seen them, but they 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:07.720 really were. And you know, the wipes are very, very visible. 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.679 And very obvious and wendy. The problem is not just 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.000 the wipes themselves, but it's the way they cling to 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:13.760 other rubbish. 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.640 Yes, so they combine with greece and other debris to 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:24.400 form fatburgs, which became famous, infamous rather in twenty thirteen 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:29.000 when London removed a fifteen ton fat burg. Mostly it's 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.880 made up of discarded wipes, and it took them weeks 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:36.880 to dismantle that. Water UK reports that wipes cause ninety 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:41.160 three percent ninety three percent of UK sewer blockages, with 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:45.079 three hundred thousand incidents costing them one hundred million around 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:49.160 a year. So I mean, other countries are in many 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.760 cases much better at keeping statistics of these sort of things. 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.959 But I think we can we can draw our you know, 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:56.559 draw from that the fact that this is a big 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:01.800 problem in any countries or municipalities sewer system. So, as 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.080 I said, a lot of these products are marketed across 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.720 the world as flashable or biodegradable in the case of 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.040 those that they're not telling you to flush. But these 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.720 claims aren't many cases inaccurate, almost leading, and this is 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:19.840 what leads to significant sewer system issues. So it's said 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:21.920 that in the case of the flashable wipes, that they 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:26.080 do not disintegrate quickly enough to avoid clogging sewer systems, because, 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.600 unlike toilet paper, which breaks down almost immediately in water wet, 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:33.280 WAPs are designed to remain intact with wet when wet 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.679 because they kept you know, and if what they're in 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.240 is not going to break them down for even along 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.480 there on the shelf before you use them, doesn't it 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.480 just make logical sense that they're not going to magically 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.040 disappear and disintegrate and degrade or whatever you want to 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.680 use as they go into the system. The problem is, yes, 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:56.079 they they will break down, but in many cases they 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.080 reach the sewage system and start causing the damage before 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.160 they've had a chance to do it. Yes, that's really 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.400 it's the same story as so many of these so 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.040 called compostible products would be that they're not going to 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:10.120 be composted in ideal composting conditions which would allow them 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.520 to break down. So you can claim that they are 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.400 compostible or biodegradable, but that's not the same thing as 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:21.040 saying that they are being composted or being biodegraded because 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:23.080 they're never given the chance to do so. And in 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.000 the case of flashable that they're going to behave like 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.080 ordinary toilet paper once you flush them, because they're simply 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:30.800 they've been sitting in water and you still they're still. 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:32.280 Intact when you get them in your hand. I mean 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.439 logic and a change when you go it on the loop. Yeah. 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:40.200 So here's another stat In a Toronto. 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.600 And had so many I just had to leave most of. 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:47.080 Them out for time purposes. But in Toronto Metropolitan University, 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:51.800 their study had researchers testing twenty three wipes that were 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:56.160 labeled as flashable and found that only two partially disintegrated. 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.679 Sure Similarly, in the case of wipes labeled as a 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.480 bad A gradible made with cellulose based fibers such as 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.200 rayon or viscos, they do degrade, as we've said, but 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.320 in many cases not quickly enough. A twenty twenty three 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.640 Science Direct study found that more than half of so 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.840 called biodegradable wipes contained synthetic fibers or chemical additives that 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:23.520 inhibited degrading, leading to persistent microfibers that polluted waterways. So heyes, 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:30.160 an industry that is when association rather that is quoted 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:34.960 when you ask the manufacturers of flashable wipes to justify 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:39.600 their claims. It's a US based association called INDA, the 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:45.480 Association of the Non Woven Fabrics Industry. And INDA has 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:50.440 developed voluntary guidelines because there's there are no government regulations 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:55.000 around this, right, so they've developed voluntary guidelines for flash ability. 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.600 But without going into too much detail, and there's a 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.080 lot of detail. These have been criticized for not replacing 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:05.520 or replicating rather real world sewer conditions. So they'll give them, say, 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.520 three minutes for it to break down, but in three 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.160 minutes the damage has been done. 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.200 It's already chunking up a pipe somewhere in the system. 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.400 So that sort of thing and their moves I know 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.360 in the UK to have it put an end to 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:22.760 safety flash or flashable wipes because it's of the same problem. 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.200 Well, Victor's mailing in to say, thanks to your previous 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.760 program on the disposal of wet wipes, I now know 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.080 only to put them in the dustbin and never to 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.920 flush them down the loo. The problem is Wendy, so 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:37.240 much of the packaging is still clearly saying flushable or 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.000 even naming them brands like flush Ease, which imply that 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.960 they can be flushed. And again I'm going to come 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.720 back to that phrase. You just used real world sewer conditions. 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.960 It's one thing to say that in perfect laboratory conditions 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:55.240 this product will bid degrade or will break down eventually. 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:57.760 It doesn't get eventually when you put it down the 0:15:57.800 --> 0:15:59.840 toilet into the sewer system. It's a matter of minutes 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.280 forwards into the main main flowing pipes and where it 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.920 is going to coaguate with all the other things that shouldn't. 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:07.320 Be there exactly. 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.720 And the other problem is a user issue, and that 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:13.520 is and one of the brands will get to in 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.800 a moment they say, don't use more than two, but 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.680 human nature is why I use two, and I can 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:20.120 do a better job with four and so. 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.000 People and that's use a fistful and that all goes 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:23.680 down at the same time. 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.320 That's guaranteed to cause a problem. 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.280 Well, a couple of interesting comments here. Herod's saying thank 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:30.760 you for this program. I want to add that critical pumps, 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.600 which are submerged pumps at super collector booster pumps burn 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.040 out and fail because of things like this, plus rags 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.720 including kitchen towels, those typical red or blue dailies. They 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.080 get tracked trapped in the fans of the pumps, and 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.280 that's when one of our council members, in fact, it's 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.840 all of me he free. Thank you for adding to that. 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.400 Marica saying when I was in London, I read that 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.320 the river bed of the Thames is lined with mounds 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.080 and mounds of wet wipes. I will never buy one again. 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:04.040 Sheila's it's time baby wipes and disposable nappies should be banned. 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.359 And then a long input from Jamie. I'm just going 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:11.160 to try and summarize here, Jamie saying nappies and sanitary 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:12.720 hygiene products also need. 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:13.760 To be added to this list. 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:18.360 Many of them don't biodgrade even in landfalls. Reducing environmble 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.000 impact and landfall waste starts at the production, design, and 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.480 manufacturing of goods or of packaging. In the case of food, 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:29.240 food and beverages, it's ludicrous that consumers are forced to 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:34.119 accept unsustainable products which pollute the environment and create landfull waste. 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.119 Products need to be designed so that they last longer, 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.920 are suitable for repair and servicing. Food and beverage packaging 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.520 needs to be economized and designed so that it is 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.360 biodegradable or composted. And I get to say again, biodegradable 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.600 and actually going to biod grade, compostible and likely to 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:56.080 be composted two very different things that need to be understood. 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.280 Saying that it can happen in perfect lab conditions is 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.640 not the same as it will happen when you throw 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:02.040 it away. 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.560 It's the same with the term recyclable. 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.120 YEP, and recyclable versus. 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.160 Which part of the country, by which plant and it's 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.480 technically possible, but it's not happening in any case. 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:14.760 We've got loads of what voice notes coming in and 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:16.120 we're going to place some of those. 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:25.120 WhatsApp seven to five six seven one five six Sevendy. 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.280 I'm in the plastics industry and we struggle with the 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.320 same thing with plastic and a lot of the time, 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:42.160 but industrial composting as opposed to be compostible. 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:51.600 So yeah, hi Papa, you haven't yet had the conversation 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.119 about biodegradability and home compostibility yet with Wendy, but I 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:56.800 just thought i'd. 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:57.960 Shoot this message through. 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.080 It is a huge buck bear, I think you know that. 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.119 And it applies equally to claims around dog pooh bags, 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.480 and so many of them are completely spurious, and yet 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.840 those that are genuine. It makes no sense. I mean, 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.440 why would you have a compostable dog pooh bag when 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.600 the person who is using it is not going to 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:24.679 make any effort to home compost it, and and similarly, 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:27.119 it is not going to make any effort to watch 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.879 it bio degrade because ultimately it ends up in the 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:35.320 municipal waste stream where it goes to anaerobic landfall, where 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.639 it's just going to sit as it would if it 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.640 was plastic. So yeah, it's it's a big issue, and 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:45.919 it's just greenwashing, pure and simple. Caroline from the M 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:47.120 three actually. 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:56.000 Bye, Papa, I've been I've seen advertising and been seeing 0:19:56.040 --> 0:20:00.880 a bamboo product that is a w as well as 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:07.240 bamboo disposed on their piece. They claim to be biodegradable. 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:08.639 Would that be? 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.840 So I don't know the answer to that off the 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:13.200 top of my head, Wendy, do you. 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.000 There was a product in Pick and Pay that I 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:18.119 saw when I was doing my re search that it 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.480 was sort of being marketed as a baby wipe, but 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.960 it said organic biodegradable. That was their whole Its plastered 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.639 all over the pack. And when I looked for a 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:33.320 company name and address contact details, there was nothing. So 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.280 I went to Pick and Pay and I said, this 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:37.400 is last week, and I said, please, gud you ask 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.840 your buyers to give me a name and whatever. And 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.919 it hasn't happened yet, unfortunately. But that was something I 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:48.400 also wanted to interrogate because it was a very very 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.399 bold claim in the context of that market. 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.439 I'm going to send the same generic response that it 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:57.119 depends on if they are being disposed of in the 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.879 correct way. Any product is only going to buy a 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.560 Y grade if it is put in the correct conditions 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:06.600 for that process to start. And Caroline, thank you. You probably 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.360 recognized the voice of Caroline from Project Nouah Tugt, who 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:11.600