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Speaker 1: For thirty years, Childline Western Cape has provided free trauma

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Speaker 1: informed counseling to children and families affected by abuse, sexual violence.

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Speaker 2: GBV and bereavement.

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Speaker 1: But now the organization needs to raise an awful lot

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Speaker 1: of money in order to continue operating at full capacity.

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Speaker 1: If that funding isn't secured, it means that thousands of

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Speaker 1: vulnerable children in the province could lose access to critical

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Speaker 1: counseling and protection services. And as I say, joining us

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Speaker 1: Institudio this morning is Ricky Cooper, who's the executive director

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Speaker 1: of Childlife Western Cape.

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Speaker 2: Ricky, good to have you with us this morning. Thank

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Speaker 2: you for having me.

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Speaker 1: What is But before we get into the crisis side

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Speaker 1: of things, but let's talk about the impact of the

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Speaker 1: psychological impact of abuse and trauma on children.

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Speaker 3: Sure, so it's quite significant, yeah, And we love in

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Speaker 3: a country were children are exposed to multiple traumas, and

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Speaker 3: so one of the first things that we see in

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Speaker 3: children are both and experienced traumas around attachment and trust

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Speaker 3: and fear, you know, and so adults and other people

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Speaker 3: that they should be trusting, they don't because they are

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Speaker 3: just really scared that the same kind of trauma is

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Speaker 3: going to happen to them, and of course it has

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Speaker 3: developmental impact on them and affects really every aspect of

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Speaker 3: their life. We often see it presenting in school, you know,

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Speaker 3: when we engage with teachers just about how children are

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Speaker 3: not coping academically, and it's often thought that there may

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Speaker 3: be a barrier to learning from an academic perspective, but

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Speaker 3: often it's actually an emotional trauma perspective.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting that you say that we had a

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Speaker 1: conversation and I've referred to it a couple of times

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Speaker 1: on the show.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh last year the year before with the Oprah

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Speaker 1: Winfrey School, and one of their teachers had we had

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Speaker 1: him on the show and he was talking about the

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Speaker 1: significance or why we need to take a more trauma

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Speaker 1: informed approach to education. And it was such a fascinating

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Speaker 1: conversation because he was essentially saying, you come into the

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Speaker 1: classroom and the trauma creates this barrier, and it's an

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Speaker 1: impenetrable barrier and it has got nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: the intellect, the capacity, the ability of the child. But

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Speaker 1: without breaking down that trauma or dealing with that trauma,

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Speaker 1: it's like that you're sitting you're teaching behind a screen

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Speaker 1: because these kids are coming to school with so much

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Speaker 1: already that the message you're trying to impart simply can't

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Speaker 1: get through. And that hits so powerfully for me because

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Speaker 1: they're in survival to make it through the day, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so we do a lot of work with kids

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Speaker 1: in schools, and that's one of the things that we see.

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Speaker 1: Once they get the support and learn the skills to

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Speaker 1: cope with it trauma, you'll see many times you'll see

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Speaker 1: an improvement and an increase in the ecadem performance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so the two really are hand in hand

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Speaker 3: in hand.

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Speaker 1: What when a child doesn't receive that early counseling or intervention,

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Speaker 1: what then what are the longer term consequences?

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Speaker 3: So see, I think you see a lot of relational

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Speaker 3: issues that develop because when the trauma hasn't been dealt with,

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Speaker 3: that's how they see life, you know, and how to

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Speaker 3: behave in life. So when a child is exposed to

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Speaker 3: domestic violence, for example, that's the model, and so they

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Speaker 3: start believing, well, that's how I navigate my way through life,

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Speaker 3: you know, whether it be a positive or a negative way.

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Speaker 3: And we see behavioral issues with children developing and intensifying.

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Speaker 3: Actually often because with trauma, they don't have a skill

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Speaker 3: to express themselves and they don't have a space to

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Speaker 3: do that, and so you'll see behavioral issues manifesting in

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Speaker 3: various ways, and sometimes children themselves become offenders.

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Speaker 1: I was just going to say this to you. I

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Speaker 1: just feel this is an area that I feel. You

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Speaker 1: and I have had this conversation before, but I feel

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Speaker 1: really strongly about that and particularly a trauma informed approaches

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Speaker 1: to everything. If you were to go into all the

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Speaker 1: jails and prisons in the country, and all the psychiatric

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Speaker 1: institutions in the country and just kind of do a

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Speaker 1: you know, a wide sweep and look at the childhood

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Speaker 1: unprocessed childhood trauma, it's a no brainer, isn't it. This

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Speaker 1: isn't Oh the world is just full of bad people,

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Speaker 1: or our prisons are just full of bad people. Our

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Speaker 1: prisons and our institutions and our facilities are full of

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Speaker 1: traumatized people who who are dealing with or not dealing

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Speaker 1: rather with unprocessed trauma. How significant is the demand for

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Speaker 1: your services these days?

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Speaker 3: So in terms of our individual counseling work, is a

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Speaker 3: huge demand for that because the more we talk about trauma,

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Speaker 3: you know, and the impact of trauma on children. Sorry,

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Speaker 3: the more we are seeing that people are wanting to

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Speaker 3: access the service can't afford to. So we actually have

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Speaker 3: a waiting list of up to two to three months

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Speaker 3: for children needing support and that's furious kinds of trauma.

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Speaker 3: And then we are constantly being requested by schools and

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Speaker 3: other community based organizations to come in and do work

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Speaker 3: and talk with children and parents and other professionals like

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Speaker 3: educators just around the issue of trauma and the impact

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Speaker 3: and what to do you know, when you suspect or

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Speaker 3: when you are disclosed trauma by a child. And so

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Speaker 3: this is just a constant request for our work.

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Speaker 2: What is that just and broadly, what is the scope

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Speaker 2: of your work?

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Speaker 1: Because again you and I were having a conversation the

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Speaker 1: other day and I was saying, you know, don't actually

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Speaker 1: know what it is these days. I know what my

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Speaker 1: understanding of child like you know, and growing up in

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Speaker 1: the UK of we had Childline and it was a

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Speaker 1: number and you were told, you know, if if you're

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Speaker 1: being hurt or if there's the new phone, the number,

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Speaker 1: And I'm just saying to you, like, is that what

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Speaker 1: you're doing? Like what is the scope and the breadth

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Speaker 1: of the work of child.

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Speaker 3: So that's how we started with a number, and our

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Speaker 3: number changed over the last four years. It's an easy

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Speaker 3: three digit number. Now it's one, one six. It's still

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Speaker 3: toll free, so you can from any network and you'll

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Speaker 3: get to a counselor. But then our scope has broadened

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Speaker 3: so much. So we had a specific focus on sexual

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Speaker 3: violence rape GBV, but we've expanded it to include trauma

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Speaker 3: as a whole, you know, because very often we work

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Speaker 3: with children for one reason, but there are other traumas, yeah,

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Speaker 3: they have experienced, and so we do individual work. We

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Speaker 3: do psychotherapeutic support groups with children who are deemed to

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Speaker 3: be at risk, and then we work in schools and

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Speaker 3: communities just educating children as well as parents and community members, educators,

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Speaker 3: other professionals around the issue of trauma. And then the

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Speaker 3: legislation that's involved around child protection because that has changed

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Speaker 3: and not many people actually know what their rights and

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Speaker 3: the responsibilities are. We do a lot of online safety

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Speaker 3: work as we While bullying is a big thing that's

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Speaker 3: come up, sexual bullying included, and so we cover that,

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Speaker 3: you know, in our work, and then we offer online

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Speaker 3: counseling through our National Office. So it's really a broad

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Speaker 3: spectrum of work that we do because the need is

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Speaker 3: so great. And one of the things that we are

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Speaker 3: picking up is that, just as we were saying earlier,

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Speaker 3: there are so many periods of experienced traumah never received support,

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Speaker 3: never had the opportunity to talk, and so they struggle

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Speaker 3: to support their child through the process. And then we

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Speaker 3: have another quite a big project in five Sexual Offenses Courts,

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Speaker 3: where we support children who are going through the court

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Speaker 3: process as witnesses. Focus these really about empowering the child

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Speaker 3: because we know, you know that often the justice process

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Speaker 3: doesn't reach a conviction, and so our focus is empowering

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Speaker 3: the child to be able to deal with the trauma

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Speaker 3: in a healthy and responsible way.

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Speaker 1: As we're talking, I'm feeling I don't know if it's

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Speaker 1: because I'm a parent or just because I'm a human being.

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling saden, but also angry that this service is

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Speaker 1: in the position it's in. And so let's talk about

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Speaker 1: funding that is received from government number one, what does

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Speaker 1: that look like?

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Speaker 3: So I have to say, in the Western Cape, we

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Speaker 3: actually have a really good relationship with the Department of

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Speaker 3: Social Development, and they give us quite significant funding, but

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Speaker 3: not enough to do the work that we do, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I think many in pos feel that way, you know.

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Speaker 3: And we understand the constraints that government has and so

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Speaker 3: our responsibilities and in p Oden is to raise additional funds.

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Speaker 3: And that's really a huge challenge. Is of course it's

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Speaker 3: hard work. You know, we have to be compliant, which

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Speaker 3: we are. We have to show that our work is

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Speaker 3: having the impact that it has, and so that relationship

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Speaker 3: with government is really important.

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Speaker 1: How do you do that? How do you measure in success?

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Speaker 3: It's hard because of the kind of work that we do,

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Speaker 3: and so.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like the kind of thing when you say, well,

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Speaker 1: well give us twenty years yes, and ask little Johnny

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Speaker 1: over there, what you know, find out where little Johnny

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Speaker 1: is in twenty years time.

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Speaker 2: It's such a difficult, it is.

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Speaker 3: Really difficult thing to do. And particularly when you're doing

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Speaker 3: individual therapeutic work with children. How do you measure impact?

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Speaker 3: Because a small thing could just be you know, before

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Speaker 3: the child didn't smile and now they are, you know.

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Speaker 3: But what we do is we do evaluations. So we

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Speaker 3: do we do a pre assessment evaluation of where the

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Speaker 3: child is at We'll do it midway through the process

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Speaker 3: and then a few months later at the end. So

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Speaker 3: it is really using evidence to guide us in terms

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Speaker 3: of our services. And we do the same when we

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Speaker 3: do group work as well as when we do in

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Speaker 3: teens of training with adults. So we want to see

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Speaker 3: where are you at this point where we come in

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Speaker 3: and do the work, and what have you learned over

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Speaker 3: a period of time. I do think one of the

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Speaker 3: things that we are looking at is doing more long

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Speaker 3: term review of the impact of our work because essentially

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Speaker 3: what we do want to see is behavior change, particularly

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Speaker 3: in communities, because that's where a lot of the trauma

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Speaker 3: is happening.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask about that. And if you're

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Speaker 1: just joining us this morning, get to have you with

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Speaker 1: us on weekend breakfast. I'm talking to Rickie Cooper, who's

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Speaker 1: the executive director of Childline Western Kate, which is facing

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Speaker 1: really a serious funding financial crisis. Money needs to be

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Speaker 1: raised in order for that the service to keep operating

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Speaker 1: at full capacity. And really what's what's at stake is

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Speaker 1: the the healing and the protection of thousands of vulnerable

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Speaker 1: children in the province. So what what happens in a

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Speaker 1: community when frontline child protection services cease to exist or

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Speaker 1: when you lose that that sort of lose funding or

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Speaker 1: lose that capacity to serve in that way.

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Speaker 3: So I think what you see is an intensifying of

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Speaker 3: the trauma, yeah, and of the abuse. And when I

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Speaker 3: say abuse, I'm talking to domestic violence, gang violencesin's abuse,

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Speaker 3: you know, the gamut of you know, of issues faced

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Speaker 3: and it just isn't an outlet for the child. There's

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Speaker 3: no support for the community as a whole. And so

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Speaker 3: you'll you often see then what happens is is a cycle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So that cycle just continues through generations, you know, And

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Speaker 3: that's what makes our work so intense. And so when

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Speaker 3: we are in a community, we can at least attempt

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Speaker 3: to break or not even break, but just step in

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Speaker 3: on a cycle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But without services, we just really see communities collapsing. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, from a socio economic perspective, from a mental

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Speaker 3: health perspective, and so it's not good. It's just there's

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Speaker 3: just nothing positive about not having access to services.

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Speaker 2: What do you need? Now? What is it?

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Speaker 1: I mean money? But what but what is there? What

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Speaker 1: would what would help? What is the are you looking for?

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Speaker 1: Partnerships with corporates. Are you looking for volunteers? Are you

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Speaker 1: looking what is it that is going to secure protect

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Speaker 1: these services for our kids.

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Speaker 3: So we're definitely looking for, as you said, is money,

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Speaker 3: which should be short term, but partnerships are so important

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Speaker 3: and people understanding, you know, that the work that we

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Speaker 3: do doesn't happen overnight like you're saying, for take twenty years,

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Speaker 3: you know, and so long term partnerships are what's important.

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Speaker 3: I think with funding also, often people don't understand because

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Speaker 3: we're a service organization, a lot of money goes towards salaries,

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Speaker 3: you know, because we're social service professionals implementing a really

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Speaker 3: critical service, and so partnerships in that way, we could

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Speaker 3: have somebody say, look, we'd like to sponsor a social

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Speaker 3: worker for two years, you know. But partnerships also in

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Speaker 3: terms of in kind, you know, we do a lot

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Speaker 3: of things like feeding kids as well who come in

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Speaker 3: for our services, because just like at school, trying to

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Speaker 3: teach a child who's experiencing trauma, trying to work with

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Speaker 3: a child who hasn't eaten is ineffective, and so we

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Speaker 3: do we do feed kids who come in through our

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Speaker 3: programs and then We also try to give them a

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Speaker 3: little soft toy, something that could be a comfort to them.

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Speaker 3: We do comfort backs as well. So all those things also.

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Speaker 2: Speak to our budget, you know.

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Speaker 3: And so if people aren't able to give financially, if

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Speaker 3: they're able to give in kind, that really leaves our budget. Okay,

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Speaker 3: And partnerships are really important because you can't work in isolation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this work.

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Speaker 3: You know, you need to be working with people who

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Speaker 3: are invested in seeing change.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, there's I think and we saw this

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Speaker 1: during COVID. Is that sort of charity I can't remember,

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Speaker 1: I can't think of what the term is, but charitable

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Speaker 1: fatigue essentially. Have you seen evidence of that where it's

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Speaker 1: just like we're just we're just tired of not tired

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Speaker 1: of giving, but it just feels like there is what

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Speaker 1: do they call that, VICKI, I can't.

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Speaker 2: Think of that.

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Speaker 1: It's not charity or fatigue, but you know, donation fatigue

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Speaker 1: or you're just and I'm just one of fatigue essentially.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Have you have you seen that?

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Speaker 3: Yes? And I think that's why we find ourselves in

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Speaker 3: the position that we do, because they are just the

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Speaker 3: need is just so great, not just with childline but

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Speaker 3: with n pos in general, you know, and particularly after COVID,

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Speaker 3: we were very fortunate in that we were able to

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Speaker 3: sustain our services. But we've now reached a point where,

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Speaker 3: you know, some difficult decisions may need to be made.

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Speaker 3: But definitely the East donor fatigue, but also we find

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Speaker 3: that donors work in cycles, and so child prediction maybe

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Speaker 3: something that they want to support now, but then early

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Speaker 3: childhood development, you know, is something I'll set they'd like

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Speaker 3: to focus on, or education, and so the landscape changes,

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Speaker 3: and you know, you have to adapt without losing the

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Speaker 3: essence of what you are as any.

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Speaker 1: Ricky, We're gonna have to leave it there just for time.

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Speaker 1: How can people get in touch with you if they

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Speaker 1: perhaps do want to partner, if they want to try

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Speaker 1: and support or as you said, offer support in kind

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Speaker 1: however that may be, How can I get in touch?

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Speaker 3: So the easiest way would actually be to send an

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Speaker 3: email to info at CHILDLINDWC dot org dot cday and

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Speaker 3: that comes directly to me, so I manage that email

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Speaker 3: edgis and then our website www dot CHILDLANDWC dot org

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Speaker 3: dot CDA. Our banking details are on the as well.

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Speaker 3: If anyone wants to make a donation, and on our

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Speaker 3: website are different office contact details, so if people do

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Speaker 3: want to make contact they can do that.

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Speaker 2: So that's okay.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much indeed for joining us this morning. If

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Speaker 1: you are able to support, please please do