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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: O two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk at all.

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Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Crutis is brought to you

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Speaker 3: by Absent Corporate and Investment Banking, proud sponsors of GTR

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Speaker 3: Africa twenty twenty six, enabling trade flows for growth. It's

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Speaker 3: a registered FSP. Good evening, Welcome to the program. I'm

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Speaker 3: Stephen Curtis. At nine minutes after six the time, and

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Speaker 3: obviously oil price is falling below ninety dollars a barrel,

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Speaker 3: having a big impact on markets everywhere, the US turning

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Speaker 3: positive in the last half hour, the JC having a

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Speaker 3: sort of semi recovery basically, so many of the losses

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Speaker 3: we've seen over the last few days being reversed, the

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Speaker 3: rands stronger, almost everything looking better. Look, you wouldn't say

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Speaker 3: that if you're a sassalotung Gala shareholder, but almost everybody

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Speaker 3: else probably feeling a bit stronger today. Even some of

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Speaker 3: the gold chairs interestingly does take some of the pressure off.

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Speaker 3: Raisers hopes that just maybe the worst is over. Hard

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Speaker 3: to say. Trump may say that the wall will end.

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Speaker 3: So Iran is the other player, though, and they say

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Speaker 3: something completely different. So it's not quite as simple as

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Speaker 3: just saying it'll be like that abster reporting what seemed

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Speaker 3: to me to be quite strong reports, quite strong results.

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Speaker 3: We'll hear from Kenney Fifchler, their CEO, in just a moment.

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Speaker 3: Fundi Chazi Bana is a deputy governor at the Reserve Bank,

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Speaker 3: also director general. There a big conference underway about how

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Speaker 3: reserve banks central banks should manage climate and nature related

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Speaker 3: financial risks. See if I can slip in a question

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Speaker 3: about sort of markets at the moment, I'm sure she

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Speaker 3: won't say very much. Just looking at how shopping is changing,

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Speaker 3: and how cities change, and EBB and flow in developments

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Speaker 3: and the waterfall development in Ku Teng, it does seem

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Speaker 3: to me to have developed a sort of a center

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Speaker 3: of gravity. We'll speak to the company behind it that.

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Speaker 3: Peter de Villiers is the chief financial officer at ATTACK.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you spent any time in waterfall, and

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Speaker 3: not just in a driver's license queue, won't you let

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Speaker 3: me know what it is that's attracted you there, why

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Speaker 3: you've gone there quite close to get to for some people,

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Speaker 3: I think that's part of it. But also does just

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Speaker 3: seem to be growing very strongly. And then I have

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Speaker 3: Bonker Car where the Chief commission at the International Trade

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Speaker 3: Administration Commission, they are getting all sorts of new powers

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Speaker 3: under suggested changes to their act. They would get their

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Speaker 3: power to sort of search, to inspect, but also the

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Speaker 3: power to kind of intervene if their issues around domestic products,

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Speaker 3: the impact of imports, for example on jobs here. I mean,

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Speaker 3: my first thought was, look at what's happening with Chinese

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Speaker 3: and Indian cars and our motor industry. We'll ask them

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Speaker 3: about that. Good year from you Tonite on double one

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Speaker 3: DOUAA three oh seven, O two two one four four six,

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Speaker 3: five six seven and Voice notes tonight of course on

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Speaker 3: seven two, seven oh two one seven oh.

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Speaker 1: Two The Money Show with Stephen Kruder's Live on ninety

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Speaker 1: two point seven and one six f M streaming on

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Speaker 1: the Prime Media Plus NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: Well Abster reporting its Africa division and its Corporate and

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Speaker 3: Investment Banking division, helping it to increase its headline earnings

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Speaker 3: by over twelve percent the Africa Regions unit alone, so

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Speaker 3: headline earnings up by over fifty percent. The group CEO

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Speaker 3: at ABSA is can effect can you good even to

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Speaker 3: talk to you again on the Money Show. Your corporate

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Speaker 3: and Investment banking unit headline earnings up by nearly fourteen percent.

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Speaker 3: Where is that business coming from or people spending more

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Speaker 3: money with you? Are you able to increase your market share?

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Speaker 4: I think the combination of factors, the first being that

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Speaker 4: our investment banding business, especially landing, has done it such

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Speaker 4: a the while at the back of opportunities that presented

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Speaker 4: themselves in the energy and infrastructure sector. We have also

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Speaker 4: seen very very strong performance from our lower market business,

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Speaker 4: in part assisted by the volatility that we have been

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Speaker 4: seeing in the last couple of sort of months and

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Speaker 4: dating back into sort of only twenty twenty five. That

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Speaker 4: business is always positioned to take advantage often certainty and

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Speaker 4: voluntility in the market. In as much as we're worry

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Speaker 4: now about what's happening in the Middle East in the

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Speaker 4: war global market, business sees opportunity to help client mitigate

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Speaker 4: the risk of uncertainty and head to their position. So

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Speaker 4: those two businesses have done exceptionally well.

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Speaker 3: Your business banking division headline earnings were down by eight percent.

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Speaker 3: I mean it is part of a new structure. Is

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Speaker 3: it still finding its feet in somewhere? Is it not

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Speaker 3: sort of running properly yet.

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Speaker 4: Maybe I think the number of factors their revenues in

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Speaker 4: the group by sort of mid the sort of single

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Speaker 4: digit figures, but the cost growth was not contained appropriately

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Speaker 4: as they were invested in expanding the sales origination team.

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Speaker 4: In addition, the quality of the asset book is still

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Speaker 4: getting itself set oft leanned. I think when there was

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Speaker 4: an aggressive attempt to crow business banking, there was an

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Speaker 4: origination that was not really a good quality, and that

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Speaker 4: resulted in massive impairments. We are still seeing the tail

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Speaker 4: end of those bad credit decisions, but the fundamentals are

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Speaker 4: starting to be solid. I'm fairly confident that with all

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Speaker 4: the effort that's been put into that business, including the

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Speaker 4: secumdment of people from other parts of the group to

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Speaker 4: strength and the leadership and strength, that business banking should

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Speaker 4: see its way true twenty two the stick and panting

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Speaker 4: back very strongly. By twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 3: You present several scenarios for our economy, and like everyone,

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Speaker 3: I think you're suddenly worried about higher oil prices. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if oil, I mean it's below one hundred dollars a arrow.

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Speaker 3: Now it's below ninety. But for a couple of days

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Speaker 3: was above a hunt. Are you worried about high interest

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Speaker 3: rates in the near future? As result?

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Speaker 4: I think if the war in the Middle East continues

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Speaker 4: for sort of a protructed period of time, we think

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Speaker 4: that the scenario of higher inflation, which will have a

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Speaker 4: consequential impact on the cost of credit ie higher interest rate,

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Speaker 4: becomes more likely. So we hope that this sort of

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Speaker 4: current crisis will be resolved fully quickly so that the

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Speaker 4: transmission mechanism is limited to a very very short sort

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Speaker 4: of period of time. We import most African countries imput

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Speaker 4: refined product from the Middle East, and if there is

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Speaker 4: a crisis therefore in the Middle East, in particular with

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Speaker 4: regard to oil price, that will find its way to

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Speaker 4: a domestic economist. In addition, supply chains are being disrupted,

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Speaker 4: which means then transportation costs on oil imported to exported

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Speaker 4: goods is likely to escalate again to live a nalative

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Speaker 4: intact on many of the economists in the Marcas week

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Speaker 4: in which you operate. So I really concerned, but we're

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Speaker 4: not panicking yet, given that it is still too early

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Speaker 4: to tell. But the longer distrugs on, the higher the

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Speaker 4: risk of that transmission effect.

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Speaker 3: One of the first things you did when he took over,

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Speaker 3: what was it eight actually nine months ago now I

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Speaker 3: suppose was you looked at absent. You changed the structure.

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Speaker 3: And there's been a lot of change at abside the

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Speaker 3: institution over the years and particularly in recent times, most

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Speaker 3: of it before you. The structure you have now a

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Speaker 3: few months in. Are you satisfied it's the correct one?

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Speaker 3: You're not looking at making any major changes. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think people at absurdly become used to change. I'm afraid.

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Speaker 4: I think that the one was sustainable such in that

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Speaker 4: it was really about the running of businesses on a

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Speaker 4: ten African basis. It just doesn't make sense that we're

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Speaker 4: not liberating the strends that we have in one geography

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Speaker 4: to benefit the rest of our footprint because the businesses

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Speaker 4: other than CIB were run clearly along country geographic lines.

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Speaker 4: The massive is an interesting product innovation in one country.

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Speaker 4: It took way too long for that to be sort

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Speaker 4: of cetran threat and commercialized in the other geographies. Through

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Speaker 4: though us in the institutional mechanism often ensuring cross learning,

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Speaker 4: it was also limiting our ability to grow and move

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Speaker 4: talent around and badly. It had a negative impact on

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Speaker 4: the clients. Many of the business banking clients, especially the

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Speaker 4: upper end of that business, tend to operate in multi geographies,

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Speaker 4: but we can't service them appropriately if our dominant operating

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Speaker 4: model is predominantly local. So we're trying to get the

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Speaker 4: best of both worlds, leverage the ability to move best

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Speaker 4: practice across service multi geography, cliente across geographies, whilst at

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Speaker 4: the same time tapping into local talent, innovation and local circumstances.

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Speaker 4: And I think that the farm was sustainable Bottler.

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Speaker 3: I mean talking of talents, Kenny, I mean you came

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Speaker 3: from Standard Bank. It seems quite a few people I

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Speaker 3: don't know. Did they just decide maybe to follow you

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Speaker 3: and tell you they see if there's a good example.

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Speaker 3: Maybe there was some other reason that they suddenly arrived

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Speaker 3: at ABS. Do you have the team you want around

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Speaker 3: you now? Should some of the other banks be sort

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Speaker 3: of locking their talent up a little bit?

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Speaker 4: I think at the level of the group back school,

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Speaker 4: I'm ninety percent there, comfortable with the quality of the

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Speaker 4: people that we have. I still need to appoint the

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Speaker 4: chief adventative was Business Banking, and we are in the

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Speaker 4: final stages of that process. Once these leaders are in place,

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Speaker 4: as is the case with Rage now who's in the city,

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Speaker 4: they themselves need to review their teams, see if there

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Speaker 4: are any guests, and makes so that that continuous process

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Speaker 4: of strengthening the band strength does not just top at

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Speaker 4: the top, does not just end at the top, but

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Speaker 4: continues throughout the organization. What I have promised the board

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Speaker 4: when I joined the DEBS is that they want to

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Speaker 4: make sure that by the time I retire, the organization

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Speaker 4: has succession options, which means then that the caliber of

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Speaker 4: the people that are appointed must be such that they

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Speaker 4: can succeed me. I expect the saying from people who

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Speaker 4: are running the different businesses within ABSUR, I think we

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Speaker 4: owe it to the organization to strengthen the band strength,

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Speaker 4: make sure that we give the organization options and ultimately

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Speaker 4: we create a high performing culture.

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Speaker 3: Jenny Fairthler, thank you very much indeed for your time tonight.

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Speaker 3: To appreciate it. The group CEO at APSOS twenty minutes

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Speaker 3: after six on.

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Speaker 1: The Lney Show with Stephen Krudis live on ninety two

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Speaker 1: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 1: Media Plus seven and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: Well, you would have seen a much calmer day in

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Speaker 3: global markets today. The US President Donald Trump seeming to

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Speaker 3: indicate the war involving the US Israel in Iran may

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Speaker 3: end soon. Oil price is lower. There was a huge

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Speaker 3: jump in bond yields yesterday. In a couple of days

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Speaker 3: before that that even led to speculation about the Reserve

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Speaker 3: Bank and other central banks possibly having to intervene. And

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Speaker 3: at the same time today underway the Network for the

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Speaker 3: Greening of the Financial System. It's in Koteng. There's a

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Speaker 3: SADA conference to a navigating climate risk in Southern Africa.

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Speaker 3: The Director General at the Reserve Bank see of the

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Speaker 3: Prudential Authority in a Reserve Bank Deputy Governor is Fondi Chabbazana,

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Speaker 3: Deputy Governor. Good evening, and thank you for your time.

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Speaker 3: I will ask you a lot about climate risks in

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Speaker 3: a moment, but I'm sure you've been watching the markets

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Speaker 3: really very closely. Our bond yields have jumped dramatically since

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Speaker 3: the conflict in the Middle East. Are you worried at

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Speaker 3: this stage that you might have to intervene?

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Speaker 5: Good evening, Stephen, Central banks so very course, it takes

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Speaker 5: a lot to worry us, but we are watching and

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Speaker 5: monitoring what is happening. What I can say to you

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Speaker 5: is that we've got a suite of tools that are

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Speaker 5: available to us. As you know, there's a Monetary Policy

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Speaker 5: Committee that's coming up in coming weeks. At that point,

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Speaker 5: we're going to assess what the data is telling us

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Speaker 5: and assess whether these risks are short termed or we

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Speaker 5: think that they might be second round effects, and then

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Speaker 5: we will take the appropriate decisions. Will also monitor whether

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Speaker 5: we think there are any financial stability risks that come through,

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Speaker 5: and if there is a need to act, we are

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Speaker 5: well able to do that. But bear in mind that

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Speaker 5: these are shocks that are not predictable. So something that

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Speaker 5: is like a war does require a careful study by

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Speaker 5: the Central Bank, and so we would respond to things

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Speaker 5: like market dysfunction. At this stage, the market seems to

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Speaker 5: be correcting, so a repricing in the market does not

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Speaker 5: mean there's a dysfunction, and we're paying careful attention to

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Speaker 5: what's happening.

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Speaker 3: Still quite a long time in terms of how quickly

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Speaker 3: this conflict is progressing before the NPC meets and you

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Speaker 3: have to make a decision, I imagine too early to

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Speaker 3: say what is going to mean for infrast rates.

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Speaker 5: Well, too early to tell, Stephen. There are many variables.

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Speaker 5: So if a conflict has just materialized and if prices

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Speaker 5: have started to increase, you're not going to see that

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Speaker 5: in the inflation data that you would have seen. It

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Speaker 5: takes time. There are legs, and so we have to

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Speaker 5: do careful monitoring and that's where the humans come in, right,

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Speaker 5: and that's where judgment comes through, and there might be

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Speaker 5: things that we might need to see through. So closer

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Speaker 5: to the meeting will have a greater appreciation of the

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Speaker 5: issues and as I said, we will continue to study

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Speaker 5: and the decision will come out as appropriate.

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Speaker 3: Your conference that you've been dealing with about navigating climate change,

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Speaker 3: what role should central banks be playing and managing climate

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Speaker 3: change risk? And were to look over the longer term,

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Speaker 3: that's probably maybe the biggest risk that we're going to face.

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Speaker 5: Yes, So central banks have got probably three roles to

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Speaker 5: play around climate issus. The one is around data collection

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Speaker 5: and understanding where potential risks might come in. And we've

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Speaker 5: got an important role to play in terms of scenario analysis.

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Speaker 5: And this is one of the things that the Network

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Speaker 5: for Greening the Financial System has been doing, playing out

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Speaker 5: multiple scenarios that relate to physical risks and what they

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Speaker 5: might mean for central banks, what they might mean to

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Speaker 5: monetary policy, what they might mean to financial stability. The

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Speaker 5: second area is around the active risk management itself. You

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Speaker 5: were talking to the CEO of APPS earlier. So one

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Speaker 5: of the things that we do is financial supervisors is

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Speaker 5: to have conversations with financial institutions and assess where that

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Speaker 5: they are having conversations with the clients about potential climate

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Speaker 5: risks and conversations with insurance to understand whether they understand

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Speaker 5: those risks, so that we are aware of potential insurance

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Speaker 5: protection gaps. The third area is around market development. As

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Speaker 5: you know, there's climate finance that is available that can

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Speaker 5: provide opportunities for us as countries, and so we do

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Speaker 5: need to create special markets will allow these funds to

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Speaker 5: flow into a country like South Africa. Alongside, of course

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Speaker 5: looking at other areas such as financial inclusion and how

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Speaker 5: this can be undermined and working together with other parts

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Speaker 5: of government to ensure that we have got sufficient intermediation

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Speaker 5: in our economy and we are able to close potential

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Speaker 5: protection gaps and we can deal with economic costs that

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Speaker 5: might come from from climate change.

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Speaker 3: We've seen quite a bit of political pushback against the

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Speaker 3: agreener agenda. I mean, does that effect the attitude of

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Speaker 3: central banks to climate change in any way? I mean,

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Speaker 3: I suppose it's a financial risk, and they're just treated

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Speaker 3: in those terms.

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Speaker 5: So risks are risks. Even so, there is of course

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Speaker 5: a conversation, a political economy conversation on climate In some quarters,

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Speaker 5: there are questions around whether climate change ought to be

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Speaker 5: a priority for US as countries, as poverty reduction a

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Speaker 5: priority for US as countries. And our answer to that

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Speaker 5: is that the risks are here. It doesn't matter how

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Speaker 5: we define the risks and how we think about the risks.

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Speaker 5: If we ask the people of the Eastern Cape about

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Speaker 5: the cyclone that hits them during the course of December,

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Speaker 5: the recent floods in Limbobo and Bumalanga, these are realities

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Speaker 5: for the most vulnerable, who are not ensured many of them.

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Speaker 5: These are vulnerabilities for US as a country to think

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Speaker 5: about because other countries are taking steps that might affect

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Speaker 5: our trade income. So if we look at the European

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Speaker 5: border adjustment taxes, so these are things that are real.

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Speaker 5: So our stance really is one that we need to

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Speaker 5: respond to the world around us, to the changes in

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Speaker 5: the environment around us, and do work that is required

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Speaker 5: for us to help South Africans to navigate this journey,

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Speaker 5: because it is not going to be an easy one.

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Speaker 5: As you said earlier, it is a structural shift. It

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Speaker 5: has impacts on communities. It will even impact job creation

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Speaker 5: and the sectors that survive over time as well. So

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Speaker 5: these are things that we ought to actively think about,

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Speaker 5: not because of the global discourse, but because of what

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Speaker 5: is in our interests as a country and what makes

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Speaker 5: sense for South Africa.

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Speaker 3: Deputy Governor, thank you, Ready to appreciate your time on

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Speaker 3: the money show. The Deputy Governor at the Reserve Bank

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Speaker 3: for the Eatsuzzibana and of course the director general there

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Speaker 3: and CEO of the Prudential Authority. Twenty seven minutes after six.

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Speaker 2: No money show the market.

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Speaker 3: Anthony, but a Sonny is a senior equity sales trader

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Speaker 3: at Absters cib Anthony, good evening. Okay, so we're looking

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Speaker 3: at the bond market. We're speaking to the Deputy governor

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Speaker 3: about that. I mean, you look at what happened yesterday

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Speaker 3: and then you look at what happened today. And they're

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Speaker 3: sort of completely different markets.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, thanks Steven. Always good to be here, and like

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Speaker 6: you say, such a dynamic market that we in like it.

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Speaker 6: It just feels like a war wind and in a

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Speaker 6: tumble dry one day to the next. Has been pretty

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Speaker 6: difficult navigating these markets. Yeah, just on the SOD on

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Speaker 6: the governor's comments that came out yesterday, I think, you know,

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Speaker 6: like they say, always cautious, always, you know, earn on

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Speaker 6: the side of you know, just to be very cautious

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Speaker 6: in these kind of environments. You know, I don't think

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Speaker 6: it's we're not in a twenty twenty scenario yet where

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Speaker 6: they're going to have to be forced to act and

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Speaker 6: when they acted was more sort of around communication than

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Speaker 6: anything else. But yeah, just it just shows you that

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Speaker 6: in an environment like this you can't take anything for granted.

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Speaker 6: You do need to be conservative in your stunts.

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Speaker 3: I mean, talking of all of that, and you talk

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Speaker 3: about swings, Toungala and Sassol Togella particularly a big winner

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Speaker 3: over the last few days and the biggest loser today. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's quite interested.

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Speaker 6: And returning to the analyst, they didn't have the greatest

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Speaker 6: sort of trading updates a couple of weeks back and

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Speaker 6: then you saw sort of stop sending a gas across

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Speaker 6: because of the war in the Middle East, and that

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Speaker 6: was sort of their luck saving grace at the time.

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Speaker 6: You know, there was because obviously gas prices went high,

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Speaker 6: there was a knock and effect on coal and that's

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Speaker 6: sort of what's caused the stocks to squeeze about fifty

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Speaker 6: percent in over a week. So you know now that

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Speaker 6: you're getting a bit of a prieve in the energy

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Speaker 6: of space. How long it lasts, who knows, it depends,

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Speaker 6: But yeah, a bit of profit taking coming through. I

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Speaker 6: was surprised by Sassil only down a percent at the

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Speaker 6: end of it, Oil down seven percent. You would have

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Speaker 6: expected a bit more pain. But let's see, it's an

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Speaker 6: interesting one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. GDP figures out today the fourth quarter of last year,

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Speaker 3: so October to December, our economy grew by point four percent.

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Speaker 3: So for the whole of last year one point one percent.

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Speaker 3: I should remind myself that the first half of last

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Speaker 3: year was very different to the second half of last year.

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Speaker 3: I suppose the big question really is is there any

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Speaker 3: sign that there is actual momentum?

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Speaker 6: It does feel like it, you know, so the market

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Speaker 6: didn't really react too much of it too much to

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Speaker 6: the Prince today, but it's encouraging. We've been averaging below

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Speaker 6: one percent for a while now, right, so it's nice

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Speaker 6: to get across and get a new big figure come through.

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Speaker 6: You know, the momentum is there. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 6: we've had positive signals from the budget speech that we

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Speaker 6: had and so now as well.

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Speaker 3: You know, it just needs to carry through.

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Speaker 6: But when you get a curveball, all these sort of

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Speaker 6: existential shocks like the conflict in the middle is, it

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Speaker 6: does throw a bit of a curveball, you know. I

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Speaker 6: think a couple of headlines saying that any sort of

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Speaker 6: rate cuts by the Salvs price style at this point,

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Speaker 6: at this juncture. But things are dynamics. So you know,

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Speaker 6: all we need is a bit more peace and maybe

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Speaker 6: maybe that changes a bit. But yeah, now I'm encouraged

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Speaker 6: by I do think that we'll get more positive duty peoples.

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Speaker 3: Anthony, what is signing? Thanks so much, senior equity sales

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Speaker 3: trader at ABSs CIB. Bringing the time to six thirty

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Speaker 3: The Money Show.

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Speaker 1: With Stephen on seven O two seven O two.

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Speaker 3: Twenty four minutes now to seven the time. You know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes something happens in economics that makes no sense. And

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Speaker 3: in a way, the whole book Freakonomics you might have

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Speaker 3: might have read it came out, oh twenty years ago,

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Speaker 3: but it explains decisions that don't seem to make sense.

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Speaker 3: And this is one that that struck me as like that.

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Speaker 3: You know, the weight loss drugs they've got a technical

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Speaker 3: name g LP dash one, but you know, you're you

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Speaker 3: know the ones what's it called a zempek and all

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Speaker 3: of those, right a' monjarro and all the others. So

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Speaker 3: as they been coming in and particularly in richer societies

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Speaker 3: than ours and the US and Europe, some companies, alcohol companies,

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Speaker 3: chocolate companies have been very worried about it. Now Lint,

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Speaker 3: which is, you know, a chocolate company and not just

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Speaker 3: a chocolate company, a very expensive chocolate company. Let me

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Speaker 3: just make that clear, he said. Some time after Valentine's Day,

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Speaker 3: they say that their sales among their market of chocolate

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Speaker 3: are up, and in fact, people who've been taking the

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Speaker 3: weight loss drugs, the GOLP dash one drugs, have been

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Speaker 3: buying seventeen percent more chocolate. Where is there or Lint

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Speaker 3: chocolates at least, whereas among people who were not using

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Speaker 3: the drugs, the increase was only six and a half percent.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm at a loss to explain that one. I

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Speaker 3: don't know. Do you think if you take the drug

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Speaker 3: and you lose weight, now you have a license to

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Speaker 3: have more chocolate? Please explanations. It is the burning economic

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Speaker 3: question of the hour. Oh seven two seven oh two

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Speaker 3: one seven o two seven two. Stephen is gone x

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Speaker 3: at at Stephen eighteen minutes to seven the time reminded

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Speaker 3: you've got some insights into why it is that people

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Speaker 3: taking weight loss drugs are more likely to eat lint chocolates,

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Speaker 3: Please oh seven two seven oh two one seven o

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Speaker 3: two in your cause on a double one double A

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Speaker 3: three seven two and to one four for six five

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Speaker 3: sixty seven. Maybe they feel they're allowed. Maybe maybe there's

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Speaker 3: some drug interaction. I don't know that. I can't, for

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Speaker 3: the life of me imagine what the real reason could be.

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Speaker 3: It might well be something else. I mean, maybe there's

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Speaker 3: something to do with the fact that lint is very expensive.

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Speaker 3: The weight loss drugs are very expensive. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: But any thought that you have as to why it

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Speaker 3: is that people on these drugs are more likely to

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Speaker 3: eat chocolate I just can't figure it out.

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Speaker 1: That's on the money shows six to eight PM.

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Speaker 3: The property company Attack, they own them all of Africa.

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Speaker 3: They're developing water Force City. They're reporting their occupancy increasing

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Speaker 3: to nearly ninety four percent. They've increased their distributable income

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Speaker 3: per share by over five percent. Peter de Villiers as

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Speaker 3: the chief financial officer at Attack, Peter, good evening, and

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Speaker 3: thanks for your time. You've been able to increase your occupancy.

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Speaker 3: You've been building quite quickly at water For City. What's

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Speaker 3: it been like finding occupants for the site.

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Speaker 7: There, Stephen, It's been I think water for a unique

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Speaker 7: value proposition. Obviously we've got a lot of we've done

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Speaker 7: some residential developments recently. We've only recently done a speculative

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Speaker 7: office that's obviously in office development where we don't have

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Speaker 7: a tenant when we start, and that completed it sort

436
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 7: of towards the end of last year our financial view

437
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 7: and filled up quite nasty. And with that we've gringn

438
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 7: it to another office development. Quote we call Gateway East,

439
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 7: about ten thousand squares of office and that's also been releasing

440
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 7: up quite nasty. So I think the office market is

441
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 7: called very competitive, very tight, they're stalled vacancies. We do

442
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 7: go head to head with Sandton and other surrounds, but

443
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 7: I think everyone's seeing that there has definitely been a

444
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 7: much firmer folks focused on returning to work from everyone.

445
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 7: There are definitely harbrid models out there and that's helping

446
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 7: drive office demand.

447
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 3: It's interesting because, I mean, from what I understand of

448
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 3: some of your competitors' own property and sent and still

449
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 3: have relatively high vacancy rates. I mean, is it the

450
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 3: traffic maybe, I mean, is there something in that that's

451
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,239
Speaker 3: even driving through traffic now at certain times it just

452
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 3: makes you want to oh, I won't complete that sentence,

453
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 3: but you know what I mean.

454
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 7: Pizza as certain traffic every day and I can't complain

455
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 7: because that means people are going back to work. So

456
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 7: I think none of us like traffic, and that was

457
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 7: probably one of the perks of lockdown that you could

458
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 7: pretty much drive anywhere and have a reasonable time and

459
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 7: expectation when you get there. But so traffic is definitely back,

460
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 7: but that needs people are back in the office, and

461
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 7: to be honest, you love it.

462
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 3: You've been able to improve your trading density at the

463
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 3: Mall of Africa. People are spending more money there, and

464
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 3: I must tell you, Peter, I have a friend who

465
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 3: says he never takes the family to Mall of Africa

466
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 3: because he can never find his car afterwards. Is there

467
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 3: a vibe to that more that's drawing shoppers and is

468
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 3: it working as a retail center? I mean, considering the

469
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: size of it. I mean, obviously it must be in

470
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 3: a way, but I sometimes wonder if it's almost too

471
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 3: big to sort of be seen as one more.

472
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 7: It is a large more, obviously not the largest in

473
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 7: the country, but was the largest book in a single phase,

474
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 7: so coming it around about one hundred and thirty thousand squares.

475
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 7: I think the nasty is that because it is a

476
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 7: super regional, it functions and it caters to a very

477
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 7: large variety in a large audience. So I think us

478
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 7: males will maybe say we go on the almost hunt

479
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,239
Speaker 7: and hit and run side and other people want to

480
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 7: wander through them all, and hopefully we've got a broad

481
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 7: appeal for everyone. But it definitely functioned very well ten

482
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 7: years old, and we are looking at refreshing it in

483
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 7: parts and moving things around. But we'll have to announce

484
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 7: that in future. Once our plans of finalizes, but definitely

485
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 7: functioning very well and be very proud and happy to

486
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 7: have an asset of that caliber.

487
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 3: You've been investing in more water tanks for your centers,

488
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 3: and I can see why you would need to do that.

489
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 3: How expensive is that? It must cost you something, I

490
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 3: mean you would you would think, and certainly running them all.

491
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 3: You know some time ago you think, well, all I

492
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 3: need to do is make sure the plumbing is sorted

493
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 3: out and the council has the capacity. Now you have

494
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 3: to make sure yourself ready that your mals and developments

495
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 3: have enough water correct.

496
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 7: And there's both pros and cons to that, obviously. If

497
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 7: you where I mean we put we've put that backup

498
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 7: art in all of ours. It's not all of them

499
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 7: are new and best of breed, if I can call

500
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 7: that the fantastic mals, but some of them are a

501
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 7: bit older. The advantage of developing waterfall is we get

502
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 7: to try and put in something from the start rather

503
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 7: than retrofit it. So we have invested very heavily in

504
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 7: water and for something that we started doing thankfully before

505
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 7: there was this last protected pair of water outages and

506
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 7: great to Johannesburg, and it's definitely paying dividends. It does

507
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 7: mean that our initial returns are not great but or

508
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 7: not as good as it could be because you're putting

509
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 7: more capics in, but we are finding now resilience and

510
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 7: and sustainability. You are definitely very hiph on tenants wishless.

511
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 7: There's no point in having an office if you don't

512
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 7: have water, and water is one thing that cannot be produced.

513
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 7: So it's playing off well. I mean, we're going to

514
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 7: think one hundred million into capics in our operational portfolio.

515
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 7: Not all of that is for water, but I think

516
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 7: given by by the end of twenty twenty six or

517
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 7: just off that we're going to have literally twelve megi

518
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 7: liters of storage. So we've more than doubled that in

519
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 7: the last will, and that we get to build that

520
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 7: spec into our new developments going forward as well.

521
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting things you have to do. You know

522
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 3: that maybe you wouldn't have thought of doing earlier. Other

523
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: services you need from councils, I mean, obviously electricity, you'll

524
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 3: do the same thing. You'll try and generate as much

525
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 3: of your own as as you can do. You try

526
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: and minimize your exposure to councils. And I say this

527
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 3: because in some areas as service delivery rarely is very weak.

528
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 7: It is a problem in South Africa. We definitely do

529
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 7: try to make sure we're resilience so you can have

530
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 7: an almost always on mentality and that does mean putting

531
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 7: PV on the roofs. That does mean putting extra backup water.

532
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 7: But more than that, it does also mean working as

533
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 7: closely as one can with Council and fostering a very

534
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 7: strong and close relationship with them. For intes in the

535
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 7: border waterfall area, you've been working with Council and we'll

536
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 7: be contributing to some additional water for the greater area

537
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 7: which will help us as a developer in the area

538
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,959
Speaker 7: as well. That does mean we be contributing towards a

539
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 7: new water tower in the area. Attend Mega Elter water Tower.

540
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 7: So it does definitely require a landlord being much more

541
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 7: skilled in a border variety of areas, and say now

542
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,959
Speaker 7: twenty years ago, there are other challenges to solve, but

543
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 7: then lies opportunity as.

544
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: Well be devils. Thank you so much, Chief Financial Officer

545
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 3: of Attack. Interesting just to see the waterfall area. I

546
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: mean I've sort of been through that area only a

547
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 3: couple of times. Areas reasons. There's a sporting complex there,

548
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 3: there's a car licensing center there. What have you found

549
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 3: when you've been there? Why have you decided to actually

550
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: start working?

551
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 6: There?

552
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 3: Be good to hear from you on oh seven two,

553
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 3: seven oh two one, seven oh two, eleven minutes now

554
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 3: to seven o'clock.

555
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 8: The money Show Stupid Crutz is brought to you by

556
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 8: APPSOL Corporate and Investment Banking, proud sponsors of GTR Africa

557
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 8: twenty twenty six enabling trade flows for Growth AHAPS as

558
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 8: a register.

559
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 3: Ever, I saw today the new plan to sort out

560
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: home affairs. With the new plan to sort out home affairs,

561
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 3: but the new plan that essentially means you'll be able

562
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 3: to go to a bank and be able to not

563
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 3: sort of have to apply for the ID, but to

564
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 3: go and do it immediately. Now, in the past, what

565
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 3: I mean is you used to have to make an appointment,

566
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 3: so you'd be able to go to some bank branches,

567
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 3: but you would have to go to the home affairs

568
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 3: website first to make an appointment. You would have to

569
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 3: pay there, then you would go to the branch. I

570
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: have to say in Mike, A couple of years ago

571
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: I found very cumbersome, very difficult. If something happened mid application,

572
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 3: there was sort of no way to get back to it.

573
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 3: You couldn't find and then you couldn't do anything else.

574
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: You you know, you had to sort that out first,

575
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: and you just couldn't sort of block it properly and

576
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 3: unblock it was quite difficult. And this would get around

577
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 3: all of those things. And so the idea essentially is

578
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 3: it'll only be I think seventeen as eleven branches now,

579
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 3: is that you'll be able to go in and sort

580
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 3: of do it almost immediately, and once you've got the

581
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: it right, there should really be no reason not to

582
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: do that. So quite excited to see how that's changing.

583
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: I think that's going to be a very interesting thing.

584
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 3: Your experience of that, please, and while I'm asking you

585
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 3: for that, I asked you on seven two, seven oh two,

586
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 3: one seven oh two about people who are taking who

587
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 3: are on weight loss drugs but eating more chocolate, Hi, Stephen.

588
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 9: I think people are more worried about putting one weight

589
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 9: and keeping the weight off Dan they are worried about diabetes.

590
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 9: Because you know, if you have a way to use

591
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 9: ozam pick to control your weight or use your weight

592
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 9: and then you indulge as much as you can in sugar,

593
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 9: and you're not gaining any weight from that sugar you're

594
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 9: consuming because you are using a zam pick to manage.

595
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: Your weight or lose weight.

596
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 9: Then that means the way there's all that sugar gorden

597
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 9: is in it going to cause you diabetes. I wonder,

598
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 9: you know, and people should look at other risks. You

599
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,479
Speaker 9: might not be gaining weight, but there's another risk that

600
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 9: will be involved in you taking this excessive sugar.

601
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, very interesting. I mean, look, and the gpl one

602
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 3: drugs weight loss drugs are sort of were formally diabetes drugs,

603
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 3: So I suppose you'd be right. But I think you're

604
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 3: right in a way. People are doing this to look

605
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 3: better rather than their health. I mean, which is the

606
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 3: primary motivation? Isn't it interesting? Isn't it?

607
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: The Lney Show on seven Monday till Friday, six to

608
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: a pm.

609
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: New changes now are coming through to the Act that

610
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 3: governs the International Trade Administration Commission. They'll give the Commission

611
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 3: new powers, including the power to take into account what

612
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 3: happens when products made here are being displaced by imports,

613
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 3: as well as the impact of South African jobs when

614
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 3: a particular project product is being imported in greater numbers.

615
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 3: The chief Commissioner at the International Trade Administration Commission is

616
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 3: Aya Bonga Power a chief commissioner. Good evening. This would

617
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 3: appear to give you and your commission greater powers. Would

618
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,719
Speaker 3: it mean, for example, that you might be able to

619
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: intervene in the car industry which seems to suddenly be

620
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: suffering from cheap imports.

621
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 10: Well, good evening to Stephen, and good evening to your listeners,

622
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 10: and thanks as always for having us on the show.

623
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 10: I don't know if it gives us much greater powers, Stephen,

624
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 10: but what it does do is to at least give

625
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 10: some legislative underpin to embold in cabinets and the Minister

626
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 10: to instruct us to undertake investigations around national security. And

627
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 10: I think the matter you raise about the displacement of

628
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 10: domestic production relates to the amendment that is proposed in

629
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 10: section six of the Act to allow the Minister to

630
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 10: use his powers to regulate imports to protect the national

631
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 10: security interests of the country. You mentioned the automotive sector.

632
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 10: I think it is one of many sectors that is

633
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 10: subject at the moment to a chronic overcapacity globally and

634
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 10: where you have got that experience manifest in the displacement

635
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,479
Speaker 10: of existing domestic capabilities at a time where I think

636
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 10: supply chains in very rapid succession in the last decade

637
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 10: or so have found themselves at different inflection points, tope

638
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 10: points and global supply chains, which undoubtedly make not only

639
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 10: jobs and investment vulnerable, but even access to vital supply

640
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 10: that are crucial to the health, safety and security of

641
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 10: our people and even the functioning of the government. So

642
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 10: the sense is that certainly, were these amendments to pass

643
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 10: and be as centered into as law, that there would

644
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 10: certainly be a qualitative improvement in the landscape of tools

645
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 10: that the Cabinet and even the Minister would have in

646
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 10: instructing the Commission to undertake probes of different types into

647
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 10: foreign trade practices and any trade flows that may have

648
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 10: bearing on our national security.

649
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 3: A national security can be defined very narrowly. In other words,

650
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 3: it can mean someone literally coming in trying to invade

651
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 3: out through a border or from the sea, or it

652
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 3: can be defined very broadly. It can say, well, we

653
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 3: think that this person is flooding our economy with cheap

654
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 3: goods of some variety in a bid to create mass unemployment, etc.

655
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 3: Is there a tight or a loose definition but in

656
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 3: the Act in the.

657
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 10: Act, yeah, I guess the Act takes a much broader

658
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 10: definition in line with the South African government's own definition

659
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 10: has released in the draft National Security Strategy that was

660
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 10: released in the second part of last year, to incorporate

661
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 10: not just typical combative, defensive or even military interests, but

662
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 10: to expand and widen that even to the security as

663
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 10: I said, of supply of vital goods accrucial to the health,

664
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 10: safety and security and well being of South African's more

665
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 10: broadly and even critical infrastructure. It's not a novel thing

666
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 10: that South Africa does in defining it broadly in that way.

667
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 10: You would notice even that the WT or framework, the

668
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 10: multilateral order emerging as it did from following the Second

669
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 10: World War allowed in Article twenty one many countries to

670
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 10: define their own national security and have exceptions to the

671
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 10: General Agreement on Trade and Tariffs, and some of the

672
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 10: early examples of countries using that. One example we came

673
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 10: across was of Ghana using national security reason to ban

674
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 10: imports from Portugal at a time when Portugal still maintained

675
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 10: colonies like Angola and Mozambique cons in Southern Africa, and

676
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 10: they ostensibly were arguing that their own national interests and

677
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 10: security interests were I guess adversely impacted by having a

678
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 10: belligerent presence of lucifhone colonists in close proximity or in

679
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 10: the coastal belt of the area that they found themselves in.

680
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 10: So I think you've had many manifestations of this, more

681
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 10: recently the use of Section two thirty two by the

682
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 10: United States authorities, and increasingly even the use as we

683
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 10: see in the EU out of Brussels. Many different manifestations

684
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 10: of national security considerations in trade. So I think in

685
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 10: a way these amendments flow not only from our national

686
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 10: security strategy, but I think are very much also part

687
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 10: of the times that we find ourselves in. In a

688
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 10: context way, of course, the multilateral trading order has always

689
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 10: had to contend with national security issues and security exceptions.

690
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 3: From the reports I've seen, you might also get more

691
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: powers to interval and search the property. I mean, I

692
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 3: don't know if that's exciting, but I'm not sure we're.

693
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 2: Going to get more powers.

694
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 10: I think the powers though, would allow us arising from

695
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 10: our enforcement work which has been in play certainly for

696
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 10: the last twenty five years, and even in predecessor acts

697
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 10: of the Board of Trade and the Tariffs that was

698
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 10: then caught. But what's different now, Steven on enforcement work,

699
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 10: in our search and theasure work, is that we now

700
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 10: have been given an explicit legislative frame to allow for

701
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 10: the disposal of any seized goods in instances where that

702
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 10: was not unclear or I guess inadequately covered in the

703
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 10: past legislation. The other element is that these amendments may

704
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 10: also allow us to levy administrative penalties in lieu of

705
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 10: any other sanction that may have been arrived at in

706
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 10: the old legislation by the High Court or any other

707
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 10: duly authorized I guess platform, or even a court that

708
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 10: would decide on any of the matters flowing from at

709
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 10: seventy one of two thousand and two. So I think

710
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 10: there are those operational changes that will give some a

711
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 10: legislative underpin to our work, even that on reciprocal commitments

712
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 10: or even public interest. You've often asked me on the

713
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 10: show when you make tariff decisions, what impact do you

714
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 10: envisage for consumers or even downstream users. Well, the amendments

715
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 10: are very explicit. Now if you look at the amendments

716
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 10: in section sixteen that we now have to look at that,

717
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 10: you know, as you undertake an investigation, look at the

718
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 10: impact on domestic industry, consumers, downstream users, something made very explicit,

719
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 10: which will certainly not they in our regulations or in

720
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 10: our legislation.

721
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 3: Before Hi a bunker power. Thank you very much, indeed,

722
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 3: Chief Commission of the International Trade Administration Commission. A few

723
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 3: seconds after seven o'clock.

724
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 1: And now the Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

725
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: o two.

726
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 2: Let's walk little.

727
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis has brought to you

728
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 3: by Absente Corporate and Investment Banking foran sponsors of GTR

729
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 3: Africa twenty twenty six enabling trade flows for growth. It's

730
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 3: a registered FSB. At seven minutes after seventh time, we'll

731
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: be speaking in a moment about the two pot system.

732
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 3: And you know, when the two pot system first came in,

733
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 3: for lots of different predictions how many people would be

734
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: taking money out, how many wouldn't, would it be particularly big,

735
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 3: would it be particularly small? I think in the end

736
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,439
Speaker 3: the people who said everyone who can take money out

737
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: will because people are so desperate for money. I think

738
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 3: they're right. I think that's where we are, and I

739
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 3: realized it's early days. We probably need to give this

740
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 3: thing five maybe ten years to run before we really know.

741
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 3: I mean, there is an upside to it, which of

742
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 3: course is that people are keeping two thirds of their

743
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 3: money in retirement. But I do just worry that not

744
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 3: we'y seeing is people just take it out whenever they can.

745
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 3: Since the start of the two part system, Professor rod

746
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: Tindo and Dingui. He'll be in in a few moments

747
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 3: to tell us what's happening across our content. Then Warren

748
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 3: Ingram back on personal finance. He's been away for a

749
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 3: little while. He will be talking about why loyalty is

750
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 3: costing you money. I don't just mean to your football team,

751
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 3: I mean financially. He has a particular reason as to why,

752
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 3: but I think it could be quite interesting. If you

753
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 3: have any kind of insurance or bond or anything like that.

754
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 3: Just stick around and make sure you listen to Warren

755
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 3: or download the podcast and listen to him tomorrow. I

756
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 3: think you might find that it's really quite useful. Nine

757
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 3: minutes now after seven.

758
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: The Lnly Show with Stephen Rudez Live on ninety two

759
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: point seven and one o six FM streaming on the

760
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: Prime Media plus NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

761
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 3: Well, some of the big financial institutions already reporting large

762
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 3: numbers of people trying to access their savings pot under

763
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 3: the new two pot tension system. In this, of course,

764
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 3: since the start of the tax Yeah, at the beginning

765
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 3: of March. Vicky Langa is a head of Solutions Enhancement

766
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 3: at alex Forbes. VICKI, good evening, Thanks for your time.

767
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 3: We're what tenth of March. You've had one hundred and

768
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 3: forty thousand claims already. Is that more than you were expecting?

769
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 11: Yes, good evening. Well, we were expecting a spike at

770
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 11: the start of the tax year, but there's definitely been

771
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 11: a marked and very sharp increase in claims in that

772
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 11: in this first week. To put the number into perspectives,

773
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 11: March twenty five, so the beginning of the previous tax yeah,

774
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 11: we received just over ninety five thousand claims. So this

775
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 11: time we're getting one hundred and forty thousand in in

776
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 11: the first week.

777
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: I mean that is a large number. Is it the

778
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 3: same people coming back each time? I mean, are you

779
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 3: finding that the people who rarely sort of claim first

780
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 3: time round are then the ones who comes say almost

781
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 3: immediately yes.

782
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 11: That is what we have found when looking at the

783
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 11: analysis historically. What we are going to do, though, is

784
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 11: we're going to look at the dates over the course

785
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 11: of March, because obviously it's still quite early days. We're

786
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 11: still getting a lot of claims in every single day,

787
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 11: so we will have a look at what that overlap

788
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 11: looks like. But you know, based on previous analysis, there's

789
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 11: definitely a high level of repeat claims, meaning that people

790
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 11: are claiming in any given opportunity, which is once in

791
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 11: a tax ya.

792
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 3: At least that's sort of predicted, wasn't it. I Mean

793
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 3: I realized everybody had different sort of predictions about what

794
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: would happen when we brought it in. But it seems

795
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 3: in the end, so many people are so desperate for

796
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 3: money that they literally don't have a choice. And this

797
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 3: will continue. I mean, there's no real prospect of that changing.

798
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 11: Sure, so the trend will continue. You know what we

799
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 11: have found in our previous survey, which is, you know,

800
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,800
Speaker 11: it's quite positive. I mean, members are at least applying

801
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 11: their minds to it, so we don't get the sense

802
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 11: that members are blindly claiming from their retirement funds. They

803
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 11: seem to be aware of the tax consequences and seem

804
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 11: to be aware of a long terms of their retirement.

805
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 11: That people are in a position having became from their

806
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 11: retirement in the day of retirement. But theeah, the financial

807
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 11: pressure is real and you know, people are obviously contemplating

808
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 11: their options, but unfortunately quite a large portion claiming. Definitely

809
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 11: not expecting that trend to significantly shift, at least not

810
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 11: in the short term.

811
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 3: There's so many different ways of looking at this, but

812
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 3: two major ways. I mean, the one way you could

813
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 3: say the systems of failure. People are going to retire

814
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 3: with a lot less money because they're taking out you know,

815
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 3: one third of it every year. The other way is

816
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 3: to say the system is working because people are forced

817
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 3: to keep two thirds of it and that stops one

818
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 3: of the big problems we had before this was brought in,

819
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 3: which was that people were quitting their jobs to access

820
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 3: their pension.

821
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 11: Exactly. So you know, the reform is ultimately doing what

822
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 11: it intended to do, and that was to solve you know,

823
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 11: the longer.

824
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 12: Term preservation issue.

825
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 11: You know, as you've pointed out Previously, when changing jobs,

826
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 11: members could take everything out of their retirement funds. Now,

827
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 11: at least the two thirds that has been going into

828
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 11: the retirement pots since September twenty four when this new

829
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 11: system was introduced, that money is there to stay invested

830
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 11: and preserved until the day of retirement and at that

831
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 11: point members having turn new attire. So you know, the

832
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 11: new regime is expected to deliver two to two and

833
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 11: a half times better retirement outcomes than the old regime ultimately,

834
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 11: but it will take time for the benefits to come

835
00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 11: through because obviously we're talking about a new regime from

836
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 11: a point in time going forward. We're not trying to

837
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 11: solve the past in the in the new regime, if

838
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 11: you know what I mean. So the vested parts of

839
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 11: the money that was accumulated before September twenty four, that

840
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 11: is still actually accessible to people when they resign, and

841
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 11: that's also going to have big implications for retirement outcomes,

842
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 11: which is which is why we needed a new regime.

843
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 3: I mean, I realized it's all still new. Are there

844
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 3: any obvious tweaks that you might make at this point?

845
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 3: I mean, I know at some point someone might want

846
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 3: to start a conversation, because I mean, there's a lot

847
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 3: of union pressure to bring this in. People wanted to

848
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 3: access their pensions. I completely understand why, and you could

849
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 3: easily argue, well, maybe the ratio needs to change instead

850
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 3: of being one third two thirds, that should be something

851
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 3: else one way or another. Other people might say, what

852
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 3: we actually need to do is to find some other

853
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 3: kind of retirement saving that can be added to this.

854
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 3: And some people might just say, you know what, I

855
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 3: just need all my money and I needed Now, are

856
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: any obvious tweaks that you've seen at the stage vigulous

857
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 3: to just sell too soon, too new? Because if I remember,

858
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 3: this has hardly been done anywhere, I don't think it's

859
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 3: actually been done somewhere else.

860
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think this two pot system is fairly unique.

861
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 11: I'm not too sure of any other systems of hand.

862
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 11: You know, they might exist, but I'm not too sure

863
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 11: of hand. But yeah, it's unique in the sense that

864
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 11: it is giving you that balance, some access, but trying

865
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 11: to preserve the majority of contributions into the future. So

866
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 11: you know, with anything new you need it need to

867
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 11: give it time to settle, time to sort of deliver

868
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 11: the benefits it's intended to but I'm sure that it

869
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 11: would be merit in re looking at a few things

870
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 11: to see how we can improve on the system, you know,

871
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 11: to the future. But we don't want to. I don't

872
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 11: think it's necessarily prudent to start tweaking too prematurely.

873
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 3: No, sure, I mean you need to give things time

874
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 3: to bed down. This has been it's a kind of

875
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 3: generational thing. There's so much to it. This must all

876
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 3: be costing you, as Alex Forbes. So you would have

877
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 3: had to change your fee structure a little bit because

878
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 3: when this was all introduced, you know, people were putting

879
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 3: money in. There would be a cost of putting money in,

880
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 3: and then it would kind of stay there until it

881
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 3: came out again. Now you've got multiple transactions. I know

882
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 3: that would have been accounted for. But you had to

883
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 3: make big changes to the way things operate when this happened.

884
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 3: And I presume by now things are moving very smoothly,

885
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 3: but it still was a cost to you.

886
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 13: Yeah.

887
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 11: So you know, for the retirement industry as a whole,

888
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 11: including Alex Forbes, a lot had to be invested into

889
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 11: you know, systems, communication, education, everything that comes with a

890
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 11: whole new reform. You know, this was not just a

891
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 11: simple tweak in legislation, a very different way of you know,

892
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 11: being able to do claims processing at big scale, large scale,

893
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 11: being able to do that accurate, Ricky, and you know,

894
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 11: and for it to comply. So it was a very

895
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 11: complex reform. It did come at big cost, but it's

896
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 11: solving ultimately a very important problem. So I think, you know,

897
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 11: from a cost to benefit analysis perspective, this is definitely

898
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 11: a big problem where it's solving, and of course it

899
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 11: does ultimately come with cost at the end of the day.

900
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm so much to it. Vicky Langa, thanks

901
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 3: so much, Head of Solutions Enhancement at alex Forbes. Just

902
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 3: interesting to see how it all pans out. As I say,

903
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 3: pensions generational takes a while. But your thoughts so far

904
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 3: in the two part systems seventeen after seven.

905
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 8: So many business focus.

906
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 3: With Professor, We've got a change of something every time

907
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 3: I have to change it, Professor Rottendo and Dingre, the

908
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 3: founding director of Tribe Africa Advisory and author of Rumble

909
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 3: in the Jungle Reloaded Housard or Endo. Okay, there's a

910
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 3: lot going on in our continent. Lot indeed, and I

911
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 3: do want to talk about Ghana, but can we just

912
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 3: start with the impact of the Iran war. I mean

913
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 3: having a big impact on the Middle East economies. We

914
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 3: look at oil prices, We looked at them two days

915
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 3: ago and went, oh my word, it's come down a

916
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 3: lot since then. And that's our economy. But I mean

917
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 3: many African economies dependent on oil imports. Others have oil

918
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 3: but can't refine it. I mean sort of what are

919
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 3: the first things that strike you?

920
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 6: So Stephen at a very important point, obviously, especially in

921
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 6: this time in terms of what's happening from a geopolitic perspective,

922
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 6: but the Middle East itself and specifically talking about the

923
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 6: UAE Kingdom of Saudi Arabian kata over the last ten years,

924
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 6: they've invested plus or minus one hundred billion UIST dollars

925
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 6: on the African continent.

926
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 3: Is that yeah?

927
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 6: And I mean a big player for the ue is

928
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 6: deep world. I mean, we know it is a big

929
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 6: place of Africa, but if you look at the big

930
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 6: ports that they're running in Mozambique, if you look at Senegal,

931
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 6: in Egypt, they are quite significant players. I mean, if

932
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 6: the UAE, it's estimated, they probably invested about fifty nine

933
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 6: BILLIONOIS dollars over the last ten years in the of

934
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 6: sud Arabia, probably about twenty six billion, in Katar seven billion.

935
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 6: And this is the area of energy infrastructure, just to

936
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 6: name a few, some three key projects just to zoning

937
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 6: that the UAE or the Middle East has significantly invested

938
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 6: in Africa, and obviously this will be affected going forward

939
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 6: with regards to the war in the Middle East. At DRC,

940
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,439
Speaker 6: if you look at the energy transition minerals that they've

941
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 6: got your copper, your cobalt twenty one billion US dollars

942
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 6: in Mozambique. The Middle East again have invested in the

943
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 6: LNG project about twenty billion US dollars, and the UAE

944
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 6: in South Sudan or in Sudan in a humanitarian fund

945
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 6: of about half half a billion US dollars. Again so

946
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 6: against even obviously these are significant projects from the past,

947
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 6: but going into the future it was estimated another one

948
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 6: hundred billion US dollars. But again everything is going to

949
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 6: slow down a bit because of this war. Steven, so

950
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 6: a big concern from an Africa perspective.

951
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 3: It's also a reminder, I mean, one of the problems

952
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 3: that we have is that they are thinking that we

953
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 3: depend on the world sort of needs to flow in

954
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 3: a particular way. This is a big shock to that.

955
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,800
Speaker 6: It's a big shock to that and the leading actually

956
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 6: if you look at the Middle East, and I'm talking

957
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 6: of the UAE, followed probably by Kartai and Kidom of

958
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 6: Saudi Arabia, when it comes to the large infrastructure projects

959
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 6: they've been they've taken the lead now over China and

960
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 6: and Europe with the cards to year on your growth.

961
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 6: So definitely they've gotta be ramifications of the war. And

962
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 6: we already know from an oil price perspective what's happening

963
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 6: in the Amasu and the dynamics of that. But it's

964
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 6: something to watch and I think, more importantly, something for

965
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 6: the African countries to start saying, Okay, you don't prepare

966
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 6: for the shocks because they are going to be there.

967
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 6: It might be short term, it might be long term,

968
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 6: but ultimately a war has all the consequences and of

969
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 6: this nature. When you find big players like the US

970
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 6: Israel playing into it, it's going to have a significant impact.

971
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 6: So from a strategy perspective, you know, Africa has to

972
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 6: look at this and say how do we adapt accordingly?

973
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 3: Cement's become a big issue here. We produce a lot

974
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 3: of cement, but we're also very worried about imports. In Garnet,

975
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 3: they've started a clay based cement facility.

976
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, stephen A. It's a significant investment. I think it's

977
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 6: over one hundred and ten million US dollars plus the

978
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 6: Muhammad just commissioned the plant. It's going to be the

979
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 6: largest clay based cement facility and it's going to be

980
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 6: industrialization but with a low cover and manufacturer requirement, so

981
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 6: that's a great thing. The company that's involved in this

982
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:36,280
Speaker 6: is called CBI. It's amalgamation between Swiss Denmark and the

983
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 6: Ganadian government. They expect to produce about one point five

984
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 6: million tons of cement and one hundred thousand tons of

985
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 6: culcinated cement, which is key for in terms of clean,

986
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 6: clean production. Often and above the stephen Not only is

987
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 6: it a big cement manufacturing plant or probably the biggest

988
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 6: in the world, it also produces about one thy one

989
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 6: hundred jobs, so a lot of positive and I think

990
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 6: the big thing besides the reduction in terms of the

991
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 6: carb and fort print, because it's estimated probably about seven

992
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 6: to eight percent of the global cup of footprin It

993
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 6: comes from manufacturer Cement, so obviously this is going in

994
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 6: the right direction. But ultimately from an Africa perspective, Steven,

995
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 6: it's always a good story when we manufacture, we import

996
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,439
Speaker 6: lists and we drive industrialization and create jobs. That's always

997
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 6: a good story in Africa.

998
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: A British company, a British international investment they're buying big

999
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 3: in Zambi and beef.

1000
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 6: Zambief actually was a client of mine. Zambief focuses on beef.

1001
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 3: Well, I didn't think they were a vegan specialists.

1002
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 6: But BII which is the British international investment company Steven

1003
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 6: I think it used to be called CDC previously at

1004
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 6: a shareholding of seventeen point five they're up that to

1005
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 6: fifty nine percent because they just want to make a

1006
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 6: positive impact not only on Zambia but in Southern Africa.

1007
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 6: They also want to expand in other markets which includes Seria, Leon, Zambia,

1008
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 6: DRC in the Nthopia and sixty percent of their portfolio.

1009
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 6: With regards to this, Stephen is in terms of growth

1010
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 6: and also investing in renewables, agree and climate related projects.

1011
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 6: So there's a total about thirteen billion US dollars they're

1012
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 6: verdy invested in, but ultimately Zambief Stephen probably studied in

1013
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety four. It's been a good stock. It's listed

1014
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 6: both on the Ulusaka Stock Exchange and the UK Stock Exchange,

1015
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 6: and it's one of those Zambian stories that has grown

1016
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 6: well and is diversified well. So it's just this just

1017
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 6: shows again UK investment in Zambia and Zambia is a

1018
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 6: great opportunity for investment with the Zambief story Steven.

1019
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 3: In East Africa, Indonesia wants to increase its goods that

1020
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 3: are going through Kenya's port of Mombasa.

1021
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, so Mombassa, just to give some context, it's probably

1022
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 6: the busiest port in East Africa and for most of

1023
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 6: the landlocked countries like Uganda, Rwanda south to that in

1024
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 6: drc us a source of exports, destination and import obviously

1025
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 6: destination as well. Kenya predominantly exports to Indonesia, and Indonesia

1026
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 6: is a small country but also part of the Asian

1027
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 6: market tea and coffee. But at the same time they

1028
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 6: from Indonesia, they import palm oil, textiles and manufacturing products.

1029
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,399
Speaker 6: So this strategic alignment is just so that it can

1030
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 6: be a win win scenario obviously, and Indonesia's is wanting

1031
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 6: to invest more in terms of Mombasa and the opportunity

1032
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 6: provides just with regards to penetrating the rest of the

1033
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 6: African market, especially the East African market. So it'll be

1034
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 6: good to see how that goes. But quite a significant

1035
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 6: win win for both Indonesia and Kenya.

1036
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 3: Steven And there's a fashion designer from Gazon, from Gabon.

1037
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 3: He's been bringing This is a fashion term raffia.

1038
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 6: Raffia and the gentleman's name is Joshel Lazare and raffia

1039
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 6: is material that you produce from palm leaves and this gentleman,

1040
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 6: it's a nice entrepreneurial story and he initially started designing

1041
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 6: outfits for his mother and his grandmother and over the

1042
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 6: years it has become quite a successful fashion entrepreneur. His won

1043
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 6: awards recently at the Fashion the Perish Fashion Awards annual

1044
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 6: fashion competition, and there was another one two years ago

1045
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 6: called the Saint Etienne International Design Venel in France. It's

1046
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 6: very found, very Frenchly the way the length of the

1047
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 6: name is. But ultimately Lazare from an entrepreneurial perspective, He's

1048
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 6: used the basic compound, which is palm leaves. He doesn't

1049
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 6: die them, he makes up market dresses from them and

1050
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 6: is even presented to President Macron in France in terms

1051
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 6: of his achievements. So it's a great story of an

1052
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 6: African story using African products going global and he continues

1053
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 6: to rise. So Rafa is the material use from the

1054
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 6: palm leaves and is making a global impact. And the

1055
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 6: man is from Gabon.

1056
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 3: Sure, so interesting, Thanks very much. Indeed. Professor and Dingui,

1057
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 3: founding director of trib Africa Advisory and author of the

1058
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 3: book Rumble in the Jungle, reloaded Personal Finance with Warren Ingram. Well,

1059
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 3: it's been a little while, but I'm pleased to tell

1060
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 3: you that Warren Ingram is back. He's a certified financial

1061
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 3: planner at Galileo Capital. Warren, good evening. I'm not going

1062
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 3: to ask you where you were. I'm just glad to

1063
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 3: see that you're back with us. Well maybe he isn't

1064
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 3: back with us. I don't know, as he extended his holiday.

1065
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 3: Is it's so good that you just decided, Actually, nah,

1066
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 3: I'm going to come back to work.

1067
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 2: What would I What would I do on a Tuesday evening.

1068
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 3: I'd be bored to tears no money show, Well wouldn't

1069
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 3: we all? Okay, well, welcome back tonight. We're talking about

1070
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 3: why loyalty could be costing you money, and I mean

1071
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 3: I immediately think of people who spend money on the

1072
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 3: same football team here after year. You're talking specifically around

1073
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 3: financial institutions.

1074
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 2: Exactly right.

1075
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 14: I think it's one of those things where we find

1076
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 14: it so difficult to change back banks or change insurers

1077
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 14: that once we're in, we tend to stay.

1078
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 2: And they even have a phrase for it. It's called inertia.

1079
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 14: And what you'll find is, if you've been with the

1080
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 14: same bank or the same insurance company for a number

1081
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 14: of years, there's a very good chance that you're probably

1082
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 14: overpaying for the services that you are getting now, and

1083
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 14: and equally a fairly good chance that you could chop

1084
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 14: around get the same level of services and products but

1085
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 14: at a better price from a competitor of these.

1086
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 3: Okay, So I mean part of this, right is just

1087
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 3: that the some of the product providers, they do quite

1088
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 3: a lot to get you to come. I mean, they

1089
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 3: want to hook you, and there are all sorts of

1090
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 3: offers when you do that.

1091
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 14: Yeah, I keep thinking, you know, they're insurance companies that

1092
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 14: will pay you just to give you a quote. So

1093
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 14: they'll give you cash simply to ask them to it

1094
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 14: on your insurance, even if you don't move. And I

1095
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 14: mean that's a literal cost that they're actually paying you

1096
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:08,919
Speaker 14: to try to try them out.

1097
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 3: And if you.

1098
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 14: Think about banks, I can't tell you how many times

1099
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 14: I've been suckered by loyalty programs, where you know, you

1100
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 14: get to fly around the world seventeen times upside down

1101
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 14: if you swap banks and you do this or that,

1102
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 14: or the same with insurance companies, where you know, if

1103
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 14: you shop in a certain place and you exercise in

1104
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 14: a certain way, you get to do lots of interesting things.

1105
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 14: And all of those happen at the start of a cycle.

1106
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 14: So when the bank or the insurance company is deciding

1107
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 14: that they you know, whether it's to get more current

1108
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 14: accounts or to get more mortgages or whatever the deal is,

1109
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 14: more more medical aids or whatever, then they make the

1110
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 14: deals very attractive, and so in a way they either

1111
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 14: literally buy business or they cut their prices so low

1112
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 14: and make themselves so attractive that they they draw sort

1113
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 14: of the bees to the flower and once you're in,

1114
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 14: it's quite difficult to leave because of this inertia thing.

1115
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 3: So I mean, does that mean that once they've got

1116
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 3: you in, they actually know they're going to be able

1117
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 3: to charge you more down the line, they'll be able

1118
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 3: to increase their prices.

1119
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1120
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 14: I mean, if like me, your kind of personal admin

1121
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 14: isn't isn't the best, and you know, the prospect of

1122
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 14: having to shop around for a new bank account or

1123
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 14: a new insurance company seems incredibly daunting. The likelihood is

1124
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 14: that even if the product provider that you're with starts

1125
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 14: to make you grumpy because they increase the fees a

1126
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 14: bit faster than inflation, they take away a few extra

1127
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 14: services which were really nice and probably attracted you in

1128
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 14: the first place. It takes you a long time to

1129
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 14: actually decide to shop around number one, and then number

1130
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 14: two to go through the pain of actually making a change.

1131
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 14: So what the institutions are relying on is they're going

1132
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 14: to attract a large number of people through the door.

1133
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 14: Nowadays it's a figurative door, it's an electronic door. And

1134
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 14: then they know that because of inertia, you're going to

1135
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 14: stick around, and even if they lose a few a

1136
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 14: few clients, you know, five or ten percent of the

1137
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 14: people they've attracted. They've got a large number of them,

1138
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 14: you know, on their books now. And gradually over time

1139
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 14: they start to reduce the services that are off you.

1140
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 14: They make the loyalty program slightly less attractive and the

1141
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 14: fees go up a little bit, and and you know

1142
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 14: that incremental friction every single year is irritating. But they

1143
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 14: don't make such a radical change that you shift in

1144
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 14: a year that you find that it happens over three, four,

1145
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 14: five years, where where eventually you might be prodded to

1146
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 14: make a change.

1147
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 3: So, I mean, loyalty programs are they a good indicator

1148
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 3: of something? If you know, the promises are too good,

1149
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 3: or they start to get lower and lower, your benefits

1150
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 3: don't really make sense anymore.

1151
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 14: Yeah, this, this for me is the you know, is

1152
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 14: the thing. So when you see these programs, especially in

1153
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 14: the early days, there are incredibly attractive and so you

1154
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 14: know it makes sense to shift, and so you do,

1155
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 14: and you move from you know, bank a to or

1156
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 14: you change medical aid or shorter term insurance provider. And

1157
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 14: once you're in I think my first points to anybody

1158
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 14: is be very careful and very clear as to what

1159
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 14: it is that you've been offered, why have you made

1160
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 14: the change, and then track that from one year to

1161
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 14: the next. And but when you start to see that that,

1162
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 14: you know, that loyalty program which is award winning and

1163
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 14: attracting lots of interest, but when it starts to slip

1164
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 14: and you start to realize that actually, you know, potentially

1165
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 14: the loyalty program is now rewarding behavior that you know

1166
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 14: maybe you don't want to do. For example, you know,

1167
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 14: for me, I'm not going to borrow a lot of money.

1168
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 14: So if my bank's loyalty program is now incentivizing me

1169
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 14: to get more credit cards and get more debt, well

1170
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 14: that's not good for me.

1171
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that.

1172
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 14: And so I'm going to monitor that loyalty program very carefully.

1173
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 14: And when I see the benefits reducing, it becomes a

1174
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 14: great signal for me to shop around because I think

1175
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 14: I can probably get a better deal from a different bank.

1176
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 14: And sometimes it's not always the new banks. Sometimes it's

1177
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 14: the old banks that want to refresh their client bass.

1178
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 14: But but I am going to shop around and and

1179
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 14: look at and and and see what I can get elsewhere.

1180
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 3: Who's being to Warren Ingram, the co founder of Galileo Capital.

1181
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 3: Your questions for him tonight on O double one double

1182
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 3: A three oh seven O two and O two one

1183
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 3: four four six, O five six seven voice notes two

1184
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 3: on seven two seven oh two one seven O two

1185
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 3: the cost of staying loyal. Tonight's subject banking products. Let's

1186
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 3: just focus there from an at warrant, I mean the

1187
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 3: they and I sort of, I mean, I'm guilty of

1188
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 3: this too. You have lots of different fees for different

1189
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,919
Speaker 3: types of accounts, and yeah, and actually with a little

1190
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 3: bit of research you can see what the differences are

1191
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 3: and what you really need.

1192
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 14: Yeah, and it's it's so interesting, you know. I mean,

1193
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 14: now we're going to have to go back a little

1194
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 14: while ago. But but if you think about when when

1195
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 14: Capitech arrived on the market, you know, we had the

1196
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 14: established banks and and and they were you know, they

1197
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 14: were delivering a set of services, and all of a sudden,

1198
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 14: this challenge of bank arrives and and offers there load

1199
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 14: fees and then you know people that were you know,

1200
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 14: in mid mid income or high income products would be going, well,

1201
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 14: the service is going to be terrible. So I'm not shifting,

1202
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 14: you know, I don't care how low the prices, it's

1203
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 14: going to be awful. And and what what happened actually

1204
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 14: was the opposite that you know, the challenger bank delivered

1205
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 14: good service. And and so that's happened again and again.

1206
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 14: We've seen more and more banks coming coming onto market

1207
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 14: and challenging the established operators. And now, you know, funny enough,

1208
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 14: capy Tech is not a challenger. It's an established, very large,

1209
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 14: you know, competitor. And there are other people out there,

1210
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 14: you know, other banks doing doing the job now. And

1211
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 14: and so for me, you know, the core message here

1212
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 14: is when you see what's on offer, do you need

1213
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 14: something more complex and a very basic savings account, you know,

1214
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 14: credit card and and and the like. You know, very

1215
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 14: often you get you get charged for a private banker,

1216
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 14: and and you know a lot of the time when

1217
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 14: you phone the private banker, they are never available and

1218
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 14: you get directed to a call center.

1219
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 2: So you don't have a private banker.

1220
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 14: What you've got as a call center, and you're being

1221
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 14: charged potentially five six seven hundred rand a month for

1222
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 14: somebody that's actually not there to help you. They're going

1223
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 14: to direct you to a call cent and in my

1224
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 14: experience of this is to say, be very clear that

1225
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 14: you're paying then for something that's maybe you know a

1226
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 14: little bit of ego and that's fine. Or are you

1227
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 14: paying because you want to get a better lounge when

1228
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 14: you're flying, or what's the deal?

1229
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 2: But is it worth the money you're paying?

1230
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 14: But potentially you get a very low cost account that

1231
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 14: delivers all the services that you need, and then you

1232
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 14: pay for the extra things. You pay for the lounge,

1233
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 14: or you pay for whatever it is that you think

1234
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 14: is amazing from the loyalty program that you used to get.

1235
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 3: Your home loan. Is it worth reviewing that? I mean,

1236
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 3: I think a lot of us just think, well the

1237
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 3: home loans there are the ulted in twenty years hopefully.

1238
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1239
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 14: And if you've been and you know, our listeners of

1240
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 14: the Money Show would say, we're not paying it off

1241
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 14: over twenty years. We're going to pay it or eight

1242
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 14: or twelve or something. And so but you're right, you

1243
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 14: make this deal with the bank and you think, well,

1244
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 14: it's it's castin stone. Now now I'm going to honor

1245
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 14: the contract for for as long as I've got a mortgage.

1246
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 2: And and I think to understand.

1247
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 14: The dynamics of how banks work, they are incredibly competitive businesses.

1248
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 2: So you'll find that, you.

1249
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 14: Know, bank A will will have a nice mortgage book,

1250
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 14: and you might be a client to bank A, but

1251
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 14: Bank B decides that actually they don't have enough mortgages

1252
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 14: and and they want to grow their mortgage book. So

1253
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 14: very often they'll go along and they'll say, you know,

1254
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 14: we're offering prime minus one and a half or something,

1255
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 14: you know, to the right sort of proffile customer. Usually

1256
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 14: you know that I want high risk, credit risk customers,

1257
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 14: and so you know, if you've got a history of

1258
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:46,919
Speaker 14: paying off your debts, it's it's really worth your while

1259
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 14: to to shop around on your mortgage. Let's say, not

1260
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 14: not every year, I think that that would be excessive,

1261
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 14: but every three to five years, and and see what

1262
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 14: interest rates you could get from from another bank. And

1263
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,040
Speaker 14: then I think that the one thing I want to

1264
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 14: say here is it's not just the interest rate that

1265
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 14: you've got to be careful of. It'll be the fees

1266
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 14: that you're currently paying, because there will be fees as well.

1267
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 2: And then most.

1268
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 14: Importantly, you need to know that if you're going to

1269
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 14: swap mortgages, you're going to go from bank A to

1270
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 14: Bank B, that means that a new mortgage has to

1271
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:18,639
Speaker 14: be registered on the property, and that means new new fees,

1272
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 14: new costs, new lawyers that have to be paid. So

1273
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 14: you know, don't just swap from bank A to Bank

1274
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 14: B because someone saved you point one percent interest and

1275
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 14: then you actually realize that the fees have destroyed the benefit.

1276
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 14: But shopping around very often can help you and you

1277
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 14: get a substantial saving on interest rates from banks that

1278
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,640
Speaker 14: are really looking for new customers to offer mortgages to.

1279
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 14: So definitely, it's one of those things where it's not

1280
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 14: just a twenty deal that you that you can't shop around.

1281
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 14: You can shop around nder it, it'll pay you.

1282
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 3: To do it. Yeah, it's so interesting. Andre has got

1283
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 3: in touch with the question. Andre's asking, with all the

1284
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 3: wars happening around the world, should I still keep investing

1285
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:00,760
Speaker 3: my money. I'm wondering if it be better to de

1286
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 3: risk my investments for a while until the world is

1287
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 3: more settled. Just one of the questions coming through. Others

1288
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,640
Speaker 3: coming through on a double one double A three or

1289
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 3: seven and two two one, four, four, six, five, six,

1290
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 3: seven thirteen minute State.

1291
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 8: The Money Show Stephen Croutes is brought to you by

1292
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 8: absolve corporate and investment backing proud sponsors of GTR Africa

1293
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 8: twenty twenty six Enabling.

1294
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 13: Trade Flows for Growth. PHAPS is a registered everspe for

1295
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 13: The Money Show Personal Finance with Warren Ingram Well. Warren

1296
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:34,719
Speaker 13: will get to Andrew's question in a moment. First, Norman,

1297
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 13: you're on the line from Joe Berg. You've got a

1298
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 13: question on funeral policies for Warren Howsard Norman, go for it.

1299
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 15: Yes, I've taken out a policy about ten years ago

1300
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 15: and what they've calculated. I would be able to get

1301
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 15: twenty twenty thousand rand if I if I by, if I,

1302
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 15: if I, if I gang. But at this stage I

1303
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 15: think I've paid about seventy thousand or to be able

1304
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 15: to review that. ORMST just continue until until like that.

1305
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 3: Sure, Norman, Yeah, that's a lot of money that's gone

1306
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 3: in there. What aren't your thoughts on that? I mean,

1307
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 3: it seems that Norman's being overcharged somewhere if the numbers

1308
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 3: are right.

1309
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 14: Yeah, it's a I mean, it's a it's unfortunately quite common,

1310
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,799
Speaker 14: not Stephen with the situation Norman's and so so you're

1311
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 14: you've got to price these things regularly and I think

1312
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 14: a Norman's question is so valid to the to the

1313
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 14: conversation we're having because I would guess if you if

1314
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,799
Speaker 14: you shopped around for a funeral policy every couple of years,

1315
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 14: you would find that you'd you'd probably be able to

1316
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 14: get a.

1317
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 2: Much better price.

1318
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 14: It also points out you know, know what you're buying

1319
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 14: because if you're if you're buying a policy that's you know,

1320
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 14: that's going to cover a funeral for twenty thousand round,

1321
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 14: you know, the first thing I'd be doing is to say,

1322
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 14: you know, can I can I build up an emergency

1323
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 14: fund for example, you know that that the family have

1324
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 14: access to to cover a funeral cost and start saving

1325
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 14: as quickly as I possibly can, because if you can,

1326
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 14: then you know, can you get to that twenty thousand

1327
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:12,720
Speaker 14: round and then stop the funeral policy. So so I

1328
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 14: think there's two things this even one is Gee, shopping

1329
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 14: around would it would have would have helped Norman a

1330
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 14: lot and and in my view, definitely want to shop

1331
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:24,240
Speaker 14: around right now to check and see if you can't

1332
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 14: get you know much either either much more insurance. In

1333
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 14: other words, you get you know, fifty or eighty thousand

1334
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 14: round for the same premium or if you if you're

1335
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 14: happy with twenty thousand and that's that's all that's needed,

1336
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 14: then can you get it at a much lower price?

1337
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 14: And I think shopping around would help a lot. And

1338
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:40,599
Speaker 14: then number two, please do your homework as to as

1339
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 14: to what you're paying for and the benefit that you're

1340
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 14: getting and see if you can't you get to the

1341
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 14: point where you can cover those costs from your own savings.

1342
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so interesting. All right, Norman, I mean, does

1343
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 3: that help at all? I hope.

1344
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 15: So I'm going to try the the never dim trying now.

1345
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 3: Right, Norman, thank you? All right. Question on the line

1346
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 3: from Joe Big And then what Andrew's question was around

1347
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 3: with all the wars happening around the world, that I

1348
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 3: still invest my money, I'm wondering if it's better to

1349
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 3: de risk my investments for a while. Yeah.

1350
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,840
Speaker 14: I think that question from Andrea is is, you know,

1351
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 14: lots of people are asking variations of this at the moment,

1352
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 14: and and it I think if we if we had,

1353
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 14: you know, sat in a conversation like this, you know,

1354
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:25,600
Speaker 14: mid morning on Monday, when when it felt like the

1355
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 14: oil price was you know, just on a tear up

1356
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 14: to two or three hundred dollars, and you know, it

1357
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 14: felt like and and markets were imploding in Asia. It

1358
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 14: did seem, you know, in some ways that maybe we

1359
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 14: were in for some very tough times and maybe to

1360
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 14: talk through the journey of what happens there, because you know,

1361
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 14: we start Monday and it looks really bad and and

1362
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 14: you know there is there is a massive humanitarian crisis

1363
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 14: going on. So we mustn't divorce divorce ourselves from that.

1364
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 14: But but when we're looking at our investments and markets

1365
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:59,639
Speaker 14: in general, we need to anticipate what will happen slightly

1366
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 14: longer term. So you know, when when the news flow

1367
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 14: is really bad and it and it seems very scary,

1368
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 14: as an investor, your job is to is to stop,

1369
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,720
Speaker 14: take a breath, and and try and just zoom out

1370
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 14: a little bit to say, you know, most of the

1371
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 14: time markets react, you know, in a with a little

1372
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 14: bit of panic, and and once they calm down and

1373
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 14: they start to think and you know, and to breathe

1374
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 14: properly and to read and analyze that they start to

1375
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:26,720
Speaker 14: recover from that panic. And and I think that's what

1376
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 14: we've seen in the in the in the days since Mondays,

1377
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 14: We've just seen the oil price recovering. You know, yes,

1378
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 14: newsflow has had an impact, and and so you know,

1379
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 14: markets have had recovered very strongly since then. And and

1380
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 14: so I would say to to to people that in

1381
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 14: this kind of situation, you shouldn't de risk your your

1382
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 14: portfolio based on a on a shock. You know, the

1383
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 14: oil price, you know, jumping up because of a war.

1384
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 14: If the war sustained and if infrastructure is destroyed, that

1385
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 14: could cause the oil price to stay high for a

1386
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 14: very long period of time. But the if the infrastructure

1387
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 14: is not really badly damaged and the walk could stop

1388
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,560
Speaker 14: very quickly, then you've got to be very careful of

1389
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 14: de risking your investments. So I think you de risk

1390
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 14: your investments because you know you're in a situation like

1391
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:18,839
Speaker 14: this and potentially you were over invested in very risky

1392
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 14: investments to start. In other words, if you're you know,

1393
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 14: if you should have had fifty percent of your investments

1394
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 14: in shares and you had ninety five, well, well this

1395
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,799
Speaker 14: is a wake up call. Reduce your allocation to shares.

1396
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 14: But if you were correctly positioned, then you need to

1397
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 14: ride this out. This is one of the storms we

1398
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 14: knew we couldn't predict, but we knew a storm would come,

1399
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 14: and it arrived, you've got to ride it out.

1400
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think a lot of people are having

1401
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 3: that thought. All right, short term insurance and the cost

1402
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 3: of loyalty there. It's quite high with short term insurance,

1403
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 3: isn't it, Warren?

1404
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 2: It is?

1405
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 14: And I think that the friction of changing is much

1406
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 14: better here. So you know, with a home loan, you're

1407
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 14: going to pay lots of legal fees et cetera to switch,

1408
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 14: But was short term in insurance it's not that difficult.

1409
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 14: You know, you're typically on a month to month contract.

1410
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 14: So if you set yourself a goal of reviewing your

1411
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 14: short term insurance once a year or once every two years,

1412
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 14: and you then decide to switch from one insurance another,

1413
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 14: you're not necessarily I don't think you'll be in for

1414
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 14: any kind of penalties. So you can find that, you know,

1415
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 14: shopping around with short term insurance can save you a

1416
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 14: lot of money without having to sacrifice any you know,

1417
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 14: change in the product that you're actually buying. And so

1418
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,639
Speaker 14: sometimes when insurance companies say to you, look, I'm terribly sorry.

1419
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 14: You know, your premium's gone up by fourteen percent because

1420
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 14: of you know, repair costs, of cars or inflation or

1421
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 14: whatever it is. That might be true, but equally, it

1422
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 14: might be another company that's very happy to give you

1423
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 14: the same cover at a better price. And you absolutely

1424
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 14: need to shop around to make sure you're getting the

1425
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 14: right deal there.

1426
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 3: And I mean if you haven't had a claim for

1427
01:15:57,200 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 3: quite a few years, I mean, obviously that makes you

1428
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 3: quite affractive to to an insurance company. Is that useful?

1429
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 2: It is?

1430
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 14: And and it's so interesting that short term insurance companies

1431
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:10,759
Speaker 14: very often even have it a thing called the retentions department.

1432
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 14: So when you tell your insurance company, look, I've been

1433
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 14: a client for a long time, i haven't claimed, and

1434
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:18,200
Speaker 14: I want you to review my policy or I'm going

1435
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:21,879
Speaker 14: to move, they often transfer you to the retentions department,

1436
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:25,960
Speaker 14: where they will, you know, renegotiate, you know, and drop

1437
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,759
Speaker 14: your premium. So it's certainly worth asking the existing insurer

1438
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 14: because you know they've done all the hard work of

1439
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 14: getting you on board. Yes, there might be relying on inertia,

1440
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 14: but if you push back hard enough there might give

1441
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 14: you a better deal. Equally, you need to be prepared

1442
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:43,599
Speaker 14: to make the move then and go somewhere else. If

1443
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:45,040
Speaker 14: you're not going to get a better deal, and you

1444
01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 14: know you can get one elsewhere.

1445
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:48,200
Speaker 3: You need to watch the t's and c's two.

1446
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:49,719
Speaker 2: Yes.

1447
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:52,720
Speaker 14: The one thing here that really worries me is, you know,

1448
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 14: let's say you've got comprehensive insurance on your car and

1449
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 14: it's crossing you three thousand around a month, and then

1450
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 14: another insurance company says, don't worry, I'll give you insurance

1451
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 14: on your car. It will only cost you five hundre envidiment.

1452
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 14: That's such a massive difference. You need to make sure

1453
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:10,520
Speaker 14: that you're comparing apples with apples. Are you replacing comprehensive insurance,

1454
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 14: for example, with only third party where you know they're

1455
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:15,000
Speaker 14: not going to look after your car at all. They'll

1456
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 14: only look after the car that you drive into if

1457
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 14: it was your accident. So I think you've got to

1458
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 14: make sure that you are checking these and making sure

1459
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,599
Speaker 14: that if you're stopping, you're getting the same level of

1460
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,600
Speaker 14: cover and all the things that you were offered from

1461
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 14: the first company you are being offered by the second company.

1462
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 2: And if it's a.

1463
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 14: Better premium then by all means move, but if it's

1464
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 14: half the price, you need to be very careful.

1465
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:39,679
Speaker 2: There might be something that you're not being covered with warrant.

1466
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 3: We've got literally minutes and a half left, but the

1467
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 3: Levels phone from Krugersdorp and level quickly if you can

1468
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 3: please your questions about the bonds property bonds.

1469
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 12: Yeah, I wanted to check. If you have a bond

1470
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 12: with a bank and then you want to apply for

1471
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 12: a better bond and the other bank gives you a

1472
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:01,200
Speaker 12: better interest than a better how does it impect you

1473
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 12: to take the other bond, the bond that is existing,

1474
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 12: and magic with the further pond that you needed.

1475
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:09,760
Speaker 7: Level, My question makes sense.

1476
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:13,679
Speaker 3: I think it does. Level, Thank you, Warren, yep.

1477
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 2: I mean if you can.

1478
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 14: If you can, it sounds to be almost like you

1479
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:18,720
Speaker 14: consolidate the two together. And and if you're getting a

1480
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 14: better rate of interest that at you know, the second bank,

1481
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:23,479
Speaker 14: then then that's certainly going to help you on on

1482
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 14: the cost of all of the debt. So so it

1483
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:27,640
Speaker 14: might help just be careful of the of all of

1484
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 14: the other costs that you spoke about earlier in the show.

1485
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 3: Warren Ingram, thank you so much, really good to have

1486
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:34,760
Speaker 3: you back. The co founder of Galileo of Capital. Ask

1487
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:37,840
Speaker 3: glad you're able to answer levels question and of course

1488
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 3: Norman's as well, but Personal Finance will be podcast. If

1489
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 3: you miss something and just want to listen to it again.

1490
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:44,760
Speaker 3: If you wire the one who asked a question and

1491
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 3: just want to listen to it again, might be worth

1492
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:47,599
Speaker 3: doing that.

1493
01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:51,760
Speaker 8: The Money Show Stupid Protest is brought to you by

1494
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 8: Appsolve Corporate and Investment Banking, proud sponsors of GTR Africa

1495
01:18:56,520 --> 01:19:00,720
Speaker 8: twenty twenty six, enabling trade flows for growth the readiest ever.

1496
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 3: See well. A statement out tonight from our Department of

1497
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 3: Mineral and Petroleum Resource is just a reassurance really that

1498
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 3: we do have adequate levels of petroleum product in the country.

1499
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:15,800
Speaker 3: Are reminded too that some of the crude, much of

1500
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:18,840
Speaker 3: the crude that we have in our refineries actually comes

1501
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:22,120
Speaker 3: from West Africa. And of course that the Secunda coal

1502
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 3: plant is still working at the moment. Also optimistic of

1503
01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 3: a solution to the conflict in the Middle Easter, we'll

1504
01:19:29,400 --> 01:19:32,360
Speaker 3: have to see about that. Meanwhile, in the US market's

1505
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:34,320
Speaker 3: turning positive for the first time in a while. The

1506
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 3: Dow Jones up point seven, the NASDA cup point sixty eight,

1507
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 3: the S and P five hundred, Upero point five. On

1508
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,360
Speaker 3: that positive note, we'll say goodbye, to see you tomorrow.

1509
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 3: Good evening, it's eight o'clock.