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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen's credit on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two, let's walk at all.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

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Speaker 2: by ABS of Corporates and investment banking, Balancing economic growth

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Speaker 2: with ecosystems. That's out. They're invested in your story. Good evening,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the program. Eight minutes after six. I'm Stephen

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Speaker 2: Curtis and plenty to come tonight. I come to you

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Speaker 2: from Cape Town, the site of the mining in Daba.

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Speaker 2: I was involved in an event on the side of it,

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Speaker 2: and so many people coming up to me and saying

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Speaker 2: this is the busiest mining in data that they can

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Speaker 2: think of. There have been lots of people around. It's

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Speaker 2: one of those moments, you know when you arrive in

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Speaker 2: a place or you're in an area that you know

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Speaker 2: a little bit and you know roughly how long it

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Speaker 2: takes to get from one place to another. And one

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Speaker 2: way of looking at that now, even if you're not

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Speaker 2: actually going to the place yourself, to start of curiosity

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Speaker 2: is to jump onto your phone and go and do

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Speaker 2: a quick sort of navigation how long would it take

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Speaker 2: to get from here to there or from this place

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Speaker 2: to that place, and just by doing that, just by

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Speaker 2: looking basically at an uber app, you can see how

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Speaker 2: busy Cape Town is and so many people telling me

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Speaker 2: it's busier than they can remember. And this is Cape Town,

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Speaker 2: so you know what that can be like that city

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Speaker 2: bowl area when it really is exceptionally busy, not just

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Speaker 2: the mining and Darbor this week, but the State of

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Speaker 2: the Nation address later in the week as well, and

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Speaker 2: there are lots of conversations to have around that. So

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Speaker 2: just interesting to see that. I mean, you hope, and

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Speaker 2: it may well be that there's actually a lot more

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Speaker 2: interest in mining at the moment than really ever before

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Speaker 2: or certainly for a long time. And I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 2: I think that might be in a kind of era

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Speaker 2: of do I call it resource nationalism, certainly trade nationalism.

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Speaker 2: In some parts of the world, you're kind of in

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Speaker 2: a place where actually you do have to find a

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Speaker 2: space to control your own destiny, and that would be

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Speaker 2: one of the ways you do it. You need to

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Speaker 2: sign deals now, you need to get access to things now,

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Speaker 2: and certainly you think there'll be a little bit more investment.

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Speaker 2: So that was just an idle thought watching things from

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Speaker 2: slightly afar. Do you to speak Tom Zilimpton Johnney. He

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Speaker 2: gave a keynote to dress at the Mining and Darbor.

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Speaker 2: Today he's the CEO of the Minerals Council, and obviously

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Speaker 2: their relationship with government always becomes key to things, and

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Speaker 2: I think both he and government are sick of asking

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Speaker 2: answering questions about their relationship. On the other hand, when

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Speaker 2: we're not spending nearly enough money on exploration, it makes

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Speaker 2: sense to keep going. I've noticed one of the fascinating

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Speaker 2: problems I think of the moment. If you had to

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Speaker 2: give yourself this problem, what would you answer be? Here's

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Speaker 2: the problem. For years and years and years people have

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Speaker 2: made money by digging diamonds out of the ground. How

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Speaker 2: those diamonds made. They're made in a pipe. Do you

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Speaker 2: know what the pipe is called. It's called a kimber

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Speaker 2: Like pipe because the textbook example is actually in Kimberly

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Speaker 2: and they're made, as I'm sure you know, by one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent carbon in years upon years upon years upon

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Speaker 2: years of pressure. And basically it's a lump of coal

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Speaker 2: that's had a huge amount of pressure on it for

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Speaker 2: a very long time and now it's a diamond. The

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Speaker 2: problem is is that artificial diamonds are becoming stronger and

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Speaker 2: better and sort of they look exactly the same, and

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Speaker 2: could you rarely tell the difference?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 2: I don't know if diamonds are still a girl's best friend,

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Speaker 2: but an artificial diamond might well be a slightly dacard

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Speaker 2: ly boyfriend's best friend. Either way. The fact that I

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Speaker 2: talk about that is all the beers marketing from years ago.

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Speaker 2: So how do you now try and sell real diamonds

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Speaker 2: in a world in which artificial diamonds are doing so well?

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Speaker 2: I mean, where do you even start? What do you

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Speaker 2: kind of cling to? I mean, that would be one

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Speaker 2: of the questions we'll hear from David fan vecon that

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Speaker 2: in a few moments. Also a little later, the mining

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Speaker 2: and Darbor itself will speak to the product director just

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Speaker 2: about how much interest they've seen and what their kind

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Speaker 2: of trends are that they're seeing before we move to

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Speaker 2: something completely different. And I'm sure you've seen this. You

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Speaker 2: might well have been traveling and seen this, which has

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Speaker 2: so many times. You'll go into a supermarket and another parts

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Speaker 2: of the world and you'll notice that there's a smart trolley. Well,

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Speaker 2: there's smart trolleys at checkers. Some of the branches and checkers,

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Speaker 2: one or two of them in Cape to other people

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Speaker 2: have tried them, and just checking in on that technology.

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Speaker 2: We'll speak to Jonathan Cherry from Cherry Flavor about that

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Speaker 2: a little later, looking forward to that conversation as well.

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Speaker 2: In growth Points, saying that they're going to invest more

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Speaker 2: in property in Qua Zula Natel. And that's another question

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Speaker 2: I'd like to put to you this evening if you

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Speaker 2: had to invest in property outside of the Western Cape,

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Speaker 2: I know now we feel about the Western Cape, but

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Speaker 2: outside of the Western Cape, where would you put it?

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Speaker 4: So?

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Speaker 2: I think there's probably some money in hard to be

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Speaker 2: a sport. I think near Twana, Pretoria, some parts of

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Speaker 2: joe Burg. Where else would you go? Some parts of them,

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Speaker 2: Puma Langa perhaps, but Qua Zula Natel. If you look

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Speaker 2: at where people are living sort of on the if

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Speaker 2: I can call it on the ridge, you know above

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Speaker 2: Durban almost more and more developed and there then that's

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Speaker 2: part of a kind of movement away from old style,

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Speaker 2: old fashioned CBDs. But certainly people putting money in very

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Speaker 2: interesting places at the moment. So seven two seven oh

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Speaker 2: two one seven oh two, where would you invest your

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Speaker 2: money in South Africa? In property outside of the Western Cape.

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Speaker 2: Growth point will tell us in an ury they've chosen

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Speaker 2: case then, but where would you put it? Oh double

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Speaker 2: one double A three oh seven oh two O two

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Speaker 2: one four four six oh five six seven and seven

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Speaker 2: two seven oh two one seven oh two. Also natural

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Speaker 2: diamonds or artificial diamonds doesn't really matter. Thirteen minutes after

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Speaker 2: six The Money Show.

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Speaker 1: With Stephen krutiz Lion on ninety two point seven and

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Speaker 1: one O six FM streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 5: Seven and DStv Channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: Well, one of the big problems facing the mining industry

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Speaker 2: actually in Southern Africa at the moment is diamonds are

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Speaker 2: simply well not what they used to be. Artificial diamonds

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Speaker 2: are coming in a big way. I can't imagine many

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Speaker 2: people would be able to tell the difference at a glance.

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Speaker 2: Last year, the diamond industry signed what's called the Lunda

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Speaker 2: a Cord. The idea is that all of the companies

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Speaker 2: involved or give a proportion of their income around one

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Speaker 2: percent or so to coordinate the response of the diamond

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Speaker 2: mining industry to artificial diamonds. David from veg is a

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Speaker 2: mining unless someone who has been involved in the industry

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Speaker 2: in different ways for a while, David good evening. So

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Speaker 2: the minds involved are supposed to contribute to this fund,

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Speaker 2: they'll market real diamonds as opposed to artificial diamonds. It

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Speaker 2: sounds like a very tough ask to me.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think, first and foremost, it's not just the

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Speaker 4: diamond companies, but also a number of diamond producing countries Angola,

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Speaker 4: but'swan On and maybe a Sera, Sierra Deon, Democratic Republic

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Speaker 4: of the Congo, the antab Diamond Center and the Divine

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Speaker 4: Multi Commodity Center and others. You know, so everyone is

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Speaker 4: supposed to contribute one percent of annual value of diamond

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Speaker 4: exports from producing countries, and only Angola and the Beers

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Speaker 4: have actually contributed, and each of them contributed eight million.

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Speaker 4: And that's so there's sixteen million dollars, which is peanuts

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Speaker 4: in this accord, you know, to create a council to

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Speaker 4: boost you know, natural diamonds as opposed to artificially produced diamonds.

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Speaker 4: The problem with diamonds is that there is an abundance

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Speaker 4: of diamonds in the world, and people didn't know that

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Speaker 4: that abundance was kept from the market by the Beers

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Speaker 4: until blood diamonds happened, you know, until the council was

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Speaker 4: set up to eliminate blood diamonds. After that point, the

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Speaker 4: Beers was able to award diamonds in Switzerland in big

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Speaker 4: mountains of diamonds. You can keep everybody on the planet.

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Speaker 4: The passible of diamonds actually, so they're not as rare

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Speaker 4: as people claim they are. Okay, and they say they're abundant.

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Speaker 4: As soon something is abundant in the market, it becomes valueless.

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Speaker 4: The other thing is, of course, that the world has

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Speaker 4: changed a lot. Women are no longer the objects of

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Speaker 4: desire that they used to be in the sixties and seventies,

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Speaker 4: when you could talk about diamonds are a girl's best friend.

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Speaker 4: Women actually object to that kind of objectification and so

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Speaker 4: and fewer of them are interested in That was the

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Speaker 4: market that was being targeted in being adorned with diamonds

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Speaker 4: by lovers and husbands and so on to indicate the

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Speaker 4: value of the husband and the property of the husband

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Speaker 4: being the woman. You know, Feminism and so ona has

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Speaker 4: changed all of that. It's no longer that world that

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Speaker 4: we used to live in of James Bond and so on,

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Speaker 4: where when we were in the nineteen sixties and seventies.

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Speaker 2: So then the problem in a way for Southern Africa.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not that concerned about the profits of

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Speaker 2: the beers, but I am concerned about the value chain,

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Speaker 2: the ecosystem that's grown up around it, the mines. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we have to be concerned about Botswana's economy, which faces

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Speaker 2: serious headwinds there youth unemployment is actually quite similar to

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Speaker 2: our own. So then I mean, is all of that

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Speaker 2: just going to go? And I have a horrible feeling

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Speaker 2: that if the world feels it was already conned by

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Speaker 2: the diamond industry, they might just think, well, there's no

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Speaker 2: real reason to go back to this product.

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't think it. There is real reason to

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Speaker 4: go back. And if we look at we did an

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Speaker 4: extensive study on Botswana and also on the western clines here, Honiclubay,

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Speaker 4: Alexanda Bay area areas and so on, and if we

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Speaker 4: look at canes here, it is it is a ruin.

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Speaker 4: If we look at honiclub Bay after one hundred years

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Speaker 4: of diamond mining in the area, honiclu Bay when I

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Speaker 4: was there, didn't even have an ATM or a bakery

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Speaker 4: or even a shop. You know, Alexander Bay looked in

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Speaker 4: awful condition. I did studies around to Rappa, Johnny and

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Speaker 4: let Nakane in Botswana. In those places even five ten

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Speaker 4: years ago already looked terrible. And the problem for Botswana

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Speaker 4: is this, Botswana got value from the mine our rough

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Speaker 4: diamonds and the export of rough diamonds.

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Speaker 6: They didn't get any.

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Speaker 4: Value from the retail sale of jewelry and things like that.

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Speaker 4: You know that. So the diamond pipeline made much more

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Speaker 4: money in Belgium, in Israel, in Dubai, in India, and

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Speaker 4: in Britain. You know, at one point Britain was the

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Speaker 4: biggest exporter of rough diamonds in the world. But I

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Speaker 4: didn't have a single diamond mine, and that that was

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Speaker 4: where the con actually happened. You know, we in Southern

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Speaker 4: Africa got very little value for the diamonds that we

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Speaker 4: are producing. Just recently, a major diamond was discovered in

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Speaker 4: in in you know, west of Pretoria, and the diamond

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Speaker 4: mine there. Sorry, my memory just slipped me for a minute.

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Speaker 4: But even that diamond, the value of that diamond will

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Speaker 4: not be realized in South Africa. It will be realized overseas.

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Speaker 4: You know, and so this is the problem with mining.

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Speaker 4: The value of minerals are not not realized here, they

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Speaker 4: are realized elsewhere. Our iron goes to China and Japan,

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Speaker 4: and we get cars back, and we pay much more

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Speaker 4: for the cars and the value of the iron that

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Speaker 4: we exported and so on. We don't actually beneficiate our

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Speaker 4: own cars. But the same thing with diamonds. We have

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Speaker 4: five thousand diamond cutters in this country, half of them

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Speaker 4: are unemployed. In Bombay they've got fifty thousand diamond cutters

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Speaker 4: and they're all they're all less than fifteen years old,

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Speaker 4: you know. And when I spoke to someone in Belgium

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Speaker 4: about diamond cutting and polishing and surely in manufacturing in

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Speaker 4: Southern Africa, he gave me the racist answer of oh,

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Speaker 4: blacks do not have the mathematical dexterity to cut and

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Speaker 4: polish diamonds.

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Speaker 2: That's insane. I suppose. The other problem is that there's

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Speaker 2: nothing really that's mined. Along with times often you find,

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Speaker 2: you know, different sort of types of minerals are are.

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Speaker 4: There's no bouquet of minerals with diamonds. Usually with diamonds

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Speaker 4: you get a vestos. It's not a very nons commodity

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Speaker 4: to have around even for the diamond to work, as

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Speaker 4: many people die from as best as the environment mining comes.

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Speaker 4: The other thing, of course is arsenic. Arsenic is very

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Speaker 4: common and that you know that impacts on the water

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Speaker 4: and so on. If you go to the diamond mines

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Speaker 4: in the Suta at the moment and go look at

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Speaker 4: the water there, it's just absolutely a probably.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I mean I can't see anything that people, particularly

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Speaker 2: in Botswana, or anything that the industry could be repurposed towards,

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Speaker 2: which means Botswana really needs to think again. And I

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Speaker 2: mean that will have a big impact on us. It

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Speaker 2: will have a big impact on the Southern African region.

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Speaker 8: Owest Stephen Stephen.

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Speaker 4: In twenty fifteen we published a report in which we

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Speaker 4: showed that the World Band predicted that by twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: four diamonds will come to an end, especially in Botswana.

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Speaker 4: And you see the figures and the grass by Watswana

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Speaker 4: falls a bookust basically and we recommend it in twenty

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Speaker 4: fifteen already that Botswana needs to rapidly diversify. It's me

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Speaker 4: and it never did you know. And also it's being

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Speaker 4: part of the Customs Union in Southern Africa. South Africa

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Speaker 4: made it impossible for what's one of for example, to

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Speaker 4: start assembling cars or do other other things with their

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Speaker 4: diamond money. You know. So Basauana is in a bad

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Speaker 4: situation because it's very close to a sub imperial nation,

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Speaker 4: which is South Africa, which dominates all the economies around it,

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Speaker 4: extracts labor from all of them, but puts very little

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Speaker 4: back into them. You know, So Yasutu is not developing

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Speaker 4: because we used their human resources for more than one

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Speaker 4: hundred years. Southern Rozambique is not developing because we use

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Speaker 4: their human resources for more than one hundred years. We

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Speaker 4: used a lot of Batswana's human resources as well through

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Speaker 4: the migrant labor system. And of course now our minds

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Speaker 4: going into cursing and we are we are retrenching workers

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Speaker 4: in their tens of thousands, and they go back to

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Speaker 4: these labors sending areas where there's absolutely nothing for them

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Speaker 4: to do, and so they come back into South Africa,

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Speaker 4: somemaz im as and illegal miners.

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Speaker 2: David from Veig thanks very much. Indeed, the mining analysts

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Speaker 2: really do appreciate the time so much to look at

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Speaker 2: when you look at the issue of diamond minds how

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Speaker 2: you actually try and resolve this. But it's also and

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Speaker 2: there's a much bigger, sort of parable warning lesson in

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Speaker 2: all of this. That's so much of what we're mining now,

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Speaker 2: so much of what we're exploring now, what we're exploring

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Speaker 2: for what we're considering mining in the near future, is

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Speaker 2: not going to last forever, and so we also need

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Speaker 2: to consider just what happens afterwards. So it really is,

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Speaker 2: you know, a very very big problem if you consider it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it really is a major issue. How you

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Speaker 2: sort of work out what it is that you're going

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Speaker 2: to have to do, how you decide where you're going

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Speaker 2: to actually try and sort of you know, put different things.

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Speaker 2: I mean, at the same time, I suppose it really

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Speaker 2: is all about longer term planning. And this has been

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Speaker 2: one of the major problems is that you do need,

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Speaker 2: particularly in mining. It's not just the long term planning

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Speaker 2: about getting the things out of the ground, but it

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Speaker 2: is also about planning for afterwards. And when you hear,

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Speaker 2: as we do so often from the people who are

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Speaker 2: in the communities, who are in the communities, are that

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Speaker 2: are sort of in these places, then you know who

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Speaker 2: are left by the mining in dabor the you know

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Speaker 2: who are left by mining, then you really do need

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Speaker 2: to consider actually what it is that you can do

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Speaker 2: for them afterwards. So lots still consider when we look

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Speaker 2: at this particular issue. It's twenty three minutes now after

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Speaker 2: six o'clock the Money Show, the market. Gustav Schullenberg is

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Speaker 2: the portfolio manager at the old Mutual investment Group. Gustov.

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Speaker 2: Good evening, Just after trading closed for the day. A

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Speaker 2: JC update from Pick and Pay. This is for the

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Speaker 2: fifty two weeks so for the year to the end

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Speaker 2: of March. They like for like sales only a two

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Speaker 2: point nine percent. Obviously box are doing a little better

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Speaker 2: than that, but still not great for Pick and Pay.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, good evening, Stephen.

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Speaker 7: I suggest, yeah, they can pay brand itself if we

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Speaker 7: exclude Boxers. Seems to be uh and yeah, be struggling

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Speaker 7: in certain parts. You know, we see other food retailers

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Speaker 7: also struggling. But I think that environment is immensely competitive

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Speaker 7: at the moment, and with inflation coming down that that

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Speaker 7: often does hurt food retailers.

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Speaker 2: It also suggests that the you know, the recovery that

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Speaker 2: they're supposed to be involved in. I mean, people are

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Speaker 2: going to ask more questions about that.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and and shelders should Like I said, all this

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Speaker 7: exclude Boxer, which seems to be doing pretty well. The

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Speaker 7: Campay is in a tough spot. They you know, they

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Speaker 7: had to kind of over the last two three years

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Speaker 7: do a lot of restructuring and capital raising and off

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Speaker 7: loaded stake in Boxer.

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Speaker 4: It seems to.

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Speaker 7: Be taking taking longer than the market expected to turn

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Speaker 7: the business around. And it's obviously a complex, complicated business

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Speaker 7: given that they've got franchisees and corporate stores and now

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Speaker 7: kind of this investment in Boxer. It has a lot

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Speaker 7: of things you have to get right at the same time,

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Speaker 7: and this consumer is is not as healthy as they

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Speaker 7: would like.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't help obviously that they've got such strong competition

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Speaker 2: from you know who.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, so this is the problem that I kind of

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Speaker 7: alluded to, and I mentioned the franchise and corporate store mix,

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Speaker 7: is when you're competing with these you know, under an

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Speaker 7: hour online deliveries coming from corporate stores, where they could

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Speaker 7: just roll it out in one fell swoop. A franchisee

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Speaker 7: who owns a business, it's not as easily convinced that

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Speaker 7: he needs to buy motorbikes and have the same specials

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Speaker 7: as a corporate store fifty miles away. So yeah, it is.

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Speaker 7: It is hard. The business model is changed into very

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Speaker 7: convenient sitting at home, getting all your stuff on a

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Speaker 7: Sunday afternoon before lunch and pick. Compass seemed to be

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Speaker 7: struggling to compete to that in the higher end.

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Speaker 2: I mean. Also, price competition in the sector is relentless.

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Speaker 2: I mean, teckn Page internal setting price inflation was two

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Speaker 2: point seven percent, and they say, you know, food CPI

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Speaker 2: was four and a half. That's fine, But if I

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Speaker 2: remember correctly, I think shop Rights was about one point

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Speaker 2: two or something like that. I mean, And if it's

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Speaker 2: one thing to try and recover, to try and sort

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Speaker 2: of get back your market here, it's another to do

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Speaker 2: it against someone who can keep their prices so low.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, so one hundred percent. That's the scale benefits and

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Speaker 7: kind of the benefits of the kind of decades of

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Speaker 7: investing that when times get tough, you know, you could

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Speaker 7: make it even tougher for your your competitors. So yeah,

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Speaker 7: like I said, food inflation is good for Inflation is

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Speaker 7: good for food retailers within reason, obviously, but when they

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Speaker 7: start having very low price increases or deflation. It becomes

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Speaker 7: a very very hard game. And obviously the big competitors

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Speaker 7: have the ability right now to keep prices low and

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Speaker 7: squeeze them. It's hard to turn around a business in

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Speaker 7: that environment. You know, It's much easier to turn a

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Speaker 7: business around when your consumers is doing well.

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Speaker 2: Bid Best Bank, they were going to sell well but

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Speaker 2: Best was going to sell Bidvest Bank to Access Bank

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Speaker 2: from Nigeria. It seems to have fallen through. I mean,

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Speaker 2: nothing worse than having a bank you don't want.

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Speaker 7: Yeah bank, One can question kind of what the bank's

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Speaker 7: purpose is in the business. But it is unfortunate that

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Speaker 7: the cell fell through. We think it would have been

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Speaker 7: very good or the impact of the sale would have

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Speaker 7: been very good for the balance sheet of Bidvest, not

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Speaker 7: that they balance heat to stretch, but it would have

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Speaker 7: provided them with a lot of drought drder. So it's unfortunate.

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Speaker 7: But yeah, let's hope that they can find another buyer

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Speaker 7: who is who is keen on the.

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Speaker 3: Purchase.

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Speaker 2: Good stuff, Thanks so much, Chris Stuff, Schoenberg's portfolio manager

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Speaker 2: at the old mutual investment group. You with the money show.

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Speaker 2: Bringing the time to six thirty.

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Speaker 9: The Money Show, Stephen Cruts is brought to you by

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Speaker 9: Absolut Corporate and Investment Banking, Balancing economic growth with ecosystems.

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Speaker 9: That's how they've invested in your story.

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Speaker 2: Well, confirmation today about and this is bad news. You

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Speaker 2: might need to be sitting down, but I'm sure you

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Speaker 2: know this already about electricity prices and just more news

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Speaker 2: from nurser. You will recall, well, you might have tried

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Speaker 2: to put it out of your mind, frankly, that power

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Speaker 2: prices we're going to go up by five point six

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Speaker 2: three percent. Now they're going to go up by eight

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Speaker 2: point seven six percent? And why are you grown? Because

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Speaker 2: of Nursa, because of the mistake that they made. And frankly,

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Speaker 2: I think the communication around has been utterly terrible. If

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Speaker 2: I was in charge of a communications strategy, I'd have

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Speaker 2: done this an entirely different way. And frankly, I would

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Speaker 2: hold a press conference and apologize and keep apologizing because

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Speaker 2: people will feel better about you afterwards. The problem is

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Speaker 2: is that the next question some irritating person like me

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Speaker 2: would ask is well, what are you going to do

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Speaker 2: to fix it? And I don't know if NURSA can

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Speaker 2: really restore our confidence at this point. The bigger problem though,

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Speaker 2: of course, and you don't need me to tell you this,

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Speaker 2: because you know the point's being made so many times

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Speaker 2: when electricity goes up by nearly nine percent. All that

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Speaker 2: it does is encourage people who can to stop using

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Speaker 2: Eskom to go off the grid, to use it as

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Speaker 2: for a small amount of the day as they can

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Speaker 2: to get sola or whatever, stick it on their roof,

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Speaker 2: their garage, their car if they can, the dog if

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Speaker 2: it's had still. I mean, the whole point is that

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Speaker 2: it is just going to encourage all of us to

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Speaker 2: get off the grid as fast as we can, businesses, people,

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Speaker 2: the whole bit, and all of that has got to

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Speaker 2: be bad news over the longer term for ESKIM. Now

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Speaker 2: you can't go to Eskim and say, if you want

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Speaker 2: to survive charge less. But we're now at a point where, frankly,

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Speaker 2: it just can't go on like this, and everybody knows it.

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Speaker 2: And I was interested that Grehdham Mantasha, the Minister of

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Speaker 2: Mineral Resources and Petroleum, he and I agree on some

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Speaker 2: things but not on others. I think you'll agree that

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Speaker 2: he was saying today in fact, at the mining in

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Speaker 2: Darba that smelters need to also take some of the pain.

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Speaker 2: They can't expect government to basically be subsidizing them or

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Speaker 2: other electricity users to be subsidizing them. You know, this

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Speaker 2: whole issue and how difficult it's been. Eight out of

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Speaker 2: the sixty seven smelters in the country are currently operating.

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Speaker 2: And despite the fact that we produce what's at eighty

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Speaker 2: percent of the world's platinum and pretty much all of

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Speaker 2: it's chrome ferrochrome, you can't you know, it's not produced

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Speaker 2: here in the end as it goes into a smelter

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Speaker 2: somewhere else just because their electricity is cheaper. It's a major,

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Speaker 2: major issue. I thought that Mantasha had a very strong point.

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Speaker 2: Good to hear from you tonight on No. Seven two

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Speaker 2: seven two one seven.

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Speaker 1: Two The Lney Show with Stephen Krudis Live on ninety

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Speaker 1: two point seven and one six FM.

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Speaker 2: Streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 5: NAP and DStv channel eight five.

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Speaker 2: Six seventeen minutes Now to seventh the time. Well, let's

438
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 2: return to the mining in Daba and of course the

439
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: tire the start to damning gold or gold prices at

440
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 2: record highs. Platinum as seems to be bouncing quite nicely.

441
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 2: We still don't have enough exploration here. Illegal mining kind

442
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,479
Speaker 2: of still on the march. Bongani Martza is the senior

443
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: economist at at the Minerals Council South Africa. Bongani, good evening.

444
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 2: I know it's hugely busy for your organization, so thanks

445
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: for the time. I mean, has there been any progress

446
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: in miners in South Africa getting what they kind of

447
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 2: need and I mean from government and from society.

448
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 10: Thank thank you, thank you for having me, and thank

449
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 10: you for the question. I think your questions regarding what

450
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 10: we we we need as minors. I can answer that

451
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 10: question by saying that I think it's a mixed picture.

452
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 10: To some extent we have gotten what we what we

453
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 10: wanted or what we want, but in other aspects not really.

454
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,719
Speaker 10: And one such aspect, for example, would have liked competitive

455
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 10: electricity tariffs, but that's not necessarily what to appett in.

456
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 10: Of course, I think the guitarists have gone down from

457
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 10: double digit increases to single digits, but that's still way higher,

458
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 10: higher than inflation. Spire inflation spire inflation of is about

459
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 10: three point two or three point six last year. And

460
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 10: then we know that electricity tarists in this year and

461
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 10: the next year will average an increase of about eight ascent.

462
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 10: So that's that's not helping because it does not really

463
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 10: pushed our our competitive our competitiveness globally.

464
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 2: M hmm. Yeah, so those I mean, is there anything

465
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: that is going right bo Gania over the last year.

466
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 2: I mean sometimes, I mean I realized, for example, the

467
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 2: Mineral Resources Development Bill has changed I think quite significantly.

468
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 2: And I also I mean the thing that has gone

469
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: right obviously is prices of some things which might but

470
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: not yet stimulate exploration investment.

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00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, it is true that there is a very good

472
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 10: positive correlation between higher prices, commodity crisis and exploration expenditure.

473
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 6: That is that is that that that that is true.

474
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 10: But let me that's maybe the answer a question as

475
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 10: to what have we really gotten as as as minors.

476
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 10: I must say that the development or introduction of the

477
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 10: new Cadasta, I think there's in some movements there and

478
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 10: that is quite key because it's going to reduce the

479
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 10: cost of exploration. You know, when when potential explorers want

480
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 10: to know the geology or the potential of any any

481
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 10: geological location. Having the cataster I think will will really

482
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 10: will really will really help in terms of the regulatory aspect.

483
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 10: For example, the MRD bill, I can just say that

484
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 10: they are discussions. It's not my my area. My colleague

485
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 10: who can answer that question directly, but my my, my,

486
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 10: My responsibility is really looking at the numbers in terms

487
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 10: of economics and saying it's it's a cetera that's got

488
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 10: a lot of potential. And that's our message really when

489
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 10: we're presenting the first spectation, because this morning, the message

490
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 10: is that it's a steter with so much potential in

491
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 10: terms of its contribution to the discuss in terms of

492
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 10: its contribution to employment creation and also the pairport and

493
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 10: forward linkage is mining can catalyze the local economics.

494
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: So apart from electricity prices uh uh and apart from

495
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 2: sort of higher prices for golden platinum for example, what

496
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 2: else that could change, BUNGANI, could you see that would

497
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: really enable or inspire or ignite more investments in our

498
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: industry here in South Africa?

499
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, of course.

500
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 10: The I think the issue of regulate policy and regulative

501
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 10: certainty is one key issue that has to be you know,

502
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 10: miners need a stable and predictable policy environment, that's for sure.

503
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 10: It's not just the minor issues that all investors, that's

504
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 10: what they would be crying for, to use the word

505
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 10: so so that's that that is key however for us

506
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 10: as well, just infrastructure infrastructure issues from electricity to rail

507
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 10: and port efficiencies. That that that that that those are

508
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 10: quite key ingredients for the step to realize its potential.

509
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 10: We are happy, of course that there has been improvements

510
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 10: on both both electricity as well as rail and ports,

511
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 10: but we're still we're still really at pre COVID pre

512
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 10: COVID levels, but we are certain that these improvements will

513
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,959
Speaker 10: actually really really catalyze mining investments as well as exports.

514
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 10: I must say it is quite a bit disappointing, a

515
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 10: bit disappointing that exports total exports endings in twenty twenty

516
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 10: five we were lower nationalist so compared to twenty twenty four.

517
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 10: But I think the church actual going forward is quite

518
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 10: quite positive. Will look at as well as we look

519
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 10: at our export markets potential for growth this year, and

520
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 10: things are looking things are looking positive. There's one table

521
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 10: that we show in our debts and figures, and we're

522
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 10: also happy that Germany. Germany imports some of our bullions

523
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 10: as well. As the PGMs so so Germany has not

524
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 10: been growing in an encouraging way in the last few years,

525
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 10: but looking at twenty twenty five, I think they're gone

526
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 10: to register one point two percent growth in red TDT.

527
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 2: Bon Gani Motzap Thank you, senior economs at the Minerals

528
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: councilor say nine eleven minutes to seven has nfl zay

529
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: Ed is the mining in Daba, Director of Government and

530
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: Institutional Partnerships Zienup. Good evening. I mean before we get

531
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: to your specialty, certainly, just being in Capedon at the moment,

532
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,479
Speaker 2: one gets the feeling this is a very big mining

533
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: in Darba. More people are are here than we've seen

534
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: in a while.

535
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, absolutely.

536
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 12: I think the demand seems to have exploded this year.

537
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 8: It's been Yeah, we've seen a.

538
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 12: Huge rise in numbers. We won't have like official figures

539
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 12: until the end of the event, but definitely many more

540
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 12: than we predicted.

541
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: Is it just the price of commodities at the moment

542
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: or is there something else about it?

543
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 12: I think that is definitely a factor. I think that

544
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 12: there's may be something more about it.

545
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: I don't know.

546
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 10: I tend to be a bit idealistic.

547
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 8: About these things.

548
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 12: But I think there's also a bit.

549
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 11: Of as a renewed.

550
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 12: Sense of energy that's really kind of contagious.

551
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 8: At the moment.

552
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: There will be no mining without idealism, Zeno. But I

553
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: think you know that the issue of I mean, you

554
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: talk about government and institutional partnerships and so often, and

555
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: we've been talking about the Minerals Council, you would have

556
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: heard the conversation about how you know people are a

557
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: bit weary of discussing the relationship with government. I feel

558
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: sympathy with it, but I do wonder, particularly in this

559
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: moment of kind of disruptions to global trade, that governments

560
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 2: acrosss the African continent have to really consider how they

561
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: can make it easier to mine in their jurisdiction than

562
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: anywhere else in South Africause dare I say it shouldn't

563
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: be any different.

564
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 12: I mean, I honestly think that we're seeing a real shift.

565
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 12: I think our opening this morning really, I mean it

566
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 12: marked a really clear turning point I think in the

567
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 12: mining narrative for the continent.

568
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 3: Specifically, we had a.

569
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 11: Panel with.

570
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 12: The CEOs of glen Or DRC, the CEO of Ivanhoe,

571
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 12: alongside the ministers we were talking about kind of government

572
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 12: industry alignment in practice, and I mean a lot of

573
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 12: them just highlighted how important constructive dialogue with government was and.

574
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 11: How much that had changed, just even over.

575
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 12: The past couple of years, the way that they resolve disputes,

576
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 12: the way that they look at working together, and I

577
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 12: think even bigger than that, the way that countries are

578
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 12: looking to work together. We're seeing so much more of

579
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 12: a focus.

580
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 11: On regional frameworks. We're hosting a Sadak Ministerial Forum this

581
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 11: year for the first time, so I.

582
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 12: Just it really does seem that. I also think that.

583
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 11: Posts quite a big election year for the continent last year,

584
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 11: we're seeing lots of new ministers, new governments, new parties

585
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 11: who are just thinking about things in a much different way, moving.

586
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 2: Away from mining as the enemy or something to be

587
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: text to something else.

588
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 3: Maybe.

589
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think so, like really looking at how mining

590
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 11: can underpin the economic development of the continent.

591
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 12: We actually launched a new report this year alongside the

592
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 12: Africa Finance Corporation that's called the Annual Compendium the Strategic Minerals.

593
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 12: The President and CEO of samail as A Bayou, launched

594
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 12: it in our opening ceremony this morning, and we've basically

595
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 12: worked really closely with them to look at all of

596
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 12: the projects, all of the mining projects across the continent,

597
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 12: and then map them against all of the kind of

598
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 12: structural misalignments and try and look at them as opportunities,

599
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 12: right like where are their linkages between transport opportunities, infrastructur opportunities,

600
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 12: investment opportunities. Like if we can really zoom out and

601
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 12: look at mining holistically, I think there's yeah, it's there's

602
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 12: a real transformation that's happening.

603
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 2: So there's hopefully the start of a wave that leads

604
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: to change not just in Southern Africa but across the continent.

605
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: Does require the ball to get rolling and kind of

606
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: needs a bit of a sometimes a kick start.

607
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 11: It does, it does, But like I said, I think

608
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 11: that I mean we had we've had. We hosted the

609
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 11: minister or symposium yesterday as well. We saw the ministers

610
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 11: from Botswana, from DRC, from South Africa.

611
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 12: Mozambique even kind of sitting alongside each other, really really

612
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 12: talking about these things quite frankly as well, admitting the

613
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 12: challenges and the roadblocks and stuff. It's not I think

614
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 12: we're just seeing the way that governments are addressing these issues.

615
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 12: It's just it's much more frank, it's much more grounded

616
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 12: in sort of like practical steps and things that need

617
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 12: to be done, rather than kind of like a I

618
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 12: guess what was largely a sort of symbolic political approach

619
00:33:59,240 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 12: that we saw.

620
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: Before, Ziona.

621
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 2: But it's nice to speak to a fellow idealist.

622
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 12: Thanks very much, indeed, thank you so much for the pleasure.

623
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: Zionavil Sayed is the Mining and Darbor's Director of Government

624
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: and Institutional Partnership. Six minutes to seven.

625
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 5: On The Money Show six to eight PM.

626
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: Let's move away from mining, shall we into something much

627
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: more important? I am talking, of course about shopping and

628
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: a report in twenty four today Checkers reporting back on

629
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: that experiment with smart trolley trolley's at one of its

630
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: stores in Cape Town. Essentially, you put your goods into

631
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 2: the trolley. It works out that Tullis has even got

632
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 2: a weight in it for you know that big cauliflower

633
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 2: or the apple or whatever it is. It calculates so

634
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: much you owe when you get to the checkout, obviously

635
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: you move through it a lot more quickly. Jonathan Cherry

636
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 2: is the founder of Strategic Foresight and Innovation consultancy Cherry

637
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: Flavor at Jonathan Good Evening. I mean, we see this

638
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 2: thing in many, many other countries. There are a few

639
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: people dipping their toes in the water here. Is this

640
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 2: technology really working.

641
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 6: Often in Stephen? Yeah. Look, I think it works if

642
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 6: the culture allows it to work. So I think in

643
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 6: the first world environments, yes, you know, if you go

644
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 6: to a supermarket in the Netherlands, it's very sophisticated and

645
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 6: this kind of technology is easily adopted within that culture.

646
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 6: In South Africa, I think we've obviously got a different

647
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 6: kind of shopping environment here, and I think that's why

648
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 6: Shop Rights are testing it in a couple of stores

649
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 6: and they're seeing what value it offers. So this is

650
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 6: obviously a company that iterates the innovations. So this is

651
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 6: an iteration. I think they launched the first one in

652
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 6: August last year, and now they've launched a second one

653
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 6: in Cape Town to test the rollout in a new shop.

654
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: It's I mean even in other markets. I mean the

655
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 2: economists the other day was having pieces about imperfect technologies.

656
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 2: That whole piece about why imperfect technology spread, and the

657
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 2: best example they used was the cashiers check out. I

658
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: mean it seems anyway. I mean, they seem to be

659
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 2: major problems in some places. Starbucks in the US had

660
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 2: a supply chain problem because it turns out humans are

661
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: better at counting cans of coffee than machines are. It

662
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: seems tilibate to do.

663
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

664
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 13: Look, if you think about these things as a system,

665
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 13: if you put in that system, there's so many parts

666
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 13: that have to talk to each other in real time,

667
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 13: and you just need one of those parts to not

668
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 13: be working at an optimal level, and you've got problems.

669
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 6: For many years, I worked with the team at Yappy Chet,

670
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 6: and back in those days, e commerce was incredibly complex.

671
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 6: You know, they tech systems, their logistics systems, their warehouse systems,

672
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 6: and they have to work seamlessly as opposed to someone

673
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 6: walking into a physical shop, take something off the shelf,

674
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 6: buying it from somebody else, putting it in the bag,

675
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 6: and they walk out. So the you know, just the

676
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 6: level of complexity involved with these things is incredible. So

677
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 6: that's why it's expensive, and you really have to justify

678
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 6: that investment over a period of time. But I think

679
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 6: there's value in exploring it. I think it would be

680
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 6: it would be an error to say, well, it's too expensive.

681
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 6: It's always going to be too expensive. We're just not

682
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 6: even going to try. A group like shop right Checkers.

683
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 6: There's always demonstrated that they are very willing to invest

684
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 6: money into these ideas, not necessarily to them at scale now,

685
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 6: but to at least have some skin in the game

686
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 6: when it does become viable.

687
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: I mean it also, from what you suggest, means that

688
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 2: you actually have to be quite a big competitor to

689
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 2: make this work. And it's one of those strange things

690
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 2: when normally it's a small person in any market that

691
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: does something new, that might not be the case here.

692
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, Look, as you say, Shopwrite Checkers is a massive organization.

693
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 6: They are able to hire the kind of talent in

694
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 6: order to develop these kind of systems. But the big

695
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 6: thing is that you've already got a complex system of

696
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 6: supermarket logistics. Now to transision that to a digital environment

697
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 6: is going to be very expensive and take a long time.

698
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 6: There are lots of teething issues with that. If you

699
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 6: are a disruptor and you built you build your system

700
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 6: from scratch based on this innovative idea, it's much easier

701
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 6: to scale up from a small operator into the technology,

702
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 6: and that's why big companies really struggle to innovate. It's

703
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 6: not that they're under the desire to innovate, it's just

704
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 6: that when you've got that scale, to transition the entire

705
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 6: business to this new idea is incredibly complex. So yeah,

706
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 6: I think that's why the smaller players disrupt, just because

707
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 6: they've got the size at their advantage right on the

708
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 6: get go.

709
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is that we are not going

710
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 2: to stay like this forever. At some point, I mean

711
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: we want of You know, in many places, people have

712
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 2: been pumping their own petrol for generations, and it's actually

713
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 2: quite rare to have someone do it for you in

714
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: most places. And all of that will come here, but

715
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 2: kind of only when the time is right, and it

716
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: just sort of feels like the time isn't right. I

717
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 2: think people in South Africa quite enjoy the actual luxury

718
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: of having someone do it for you.

719
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

720
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 6: Again, we've just got a different culture here. A couple

721
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 6: of years ago, I traveled to Austria and I try

722
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 6: to buy a train ticket in Vienna, and it was

723
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 6: impossible because the whole train station is automated. But for Austrians,

724
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 6: they love it. As a South African traveling there, absolutely

725
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 6: hated it because you're used to personal service in South Africa.

726
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 6: And yeah, again it's very much a culture thing. You know,

727
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 6: culture dictates whether the technology takes off in a region.

728
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 6: And I think in South Africa, you know, the vast

729
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 6: amount of transactions in this region are still then cash,

730
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 6: So it takes a long time for those cultural narratives

731
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 6: to change over time.

732
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 3: So I agree with you.

733
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 6: I think, you know, we've just got a different way

734
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 6: of working here. But again, it's not that you don't try.

735
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 6: It's not that you to try and you don't try

736
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 6: and innovate and implement these ideas, but you know, you've

737
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 6: just got to be wary as to whether they're going

738
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 6: to catch on and scale the way you.

739
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 3: Hope that they do.

740
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: Jonathan, thank you so much. That issue about cash very important,

741
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: of course. Jonathan Cherry, founder of these strategic Foresight and

742
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 2: innovation consultancy Cherry a flavor. Would you invest in Quasi Luttel?

743
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 2: In a moment, we'll speak to someone who has just

744
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 2: gone seven o'clock.

745
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 1: And now the Money Show with Stephen Cribs on seven

746
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: o two.

747
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: Let's walk at all the money. The money show with

748
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 2: Stephen Crutis is brought to you by ABSTE Corporate and

749
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 2: Investment Banking, Balancing economic growth with ecosystems. That's how they're

750
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 2: invested in your story. Good evening, I'm Stephen Crotiz. Eight

751
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 2: minutes now after seven the time we'll talk property in

752
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: a moment, and I've been asking you the question tonight

753
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: outside of kuaia zulintel, where would outside of the Western Cape?

754
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: Listen to me, outside of the Western Cape, where would

755
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: you invest in property in South Africa? Right now? In

756
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 2: a seven two seven oh two one seven oh two. Now,

757
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 2: I mean there's certain places. I mean I have no

758
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: idea what property is doing in Port nother Port Nolithe

759
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 2: where's port knowth you ask? Right at the top of

760
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: the Northern Cape. It's a little colder than you would

761
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 2: expect because of the Atlantic Ocean rather than the Indian Ocean.

762
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: But you still kind of wonder if maybe there's an

763
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 2: investment opportunity there or maybe you know you can invest

764
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: kind of long term, and that's really what do you

765
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: want to do. So we'll have a conversation with Estern Deklak,

766
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 2: the CEO of Growth Point, say about that. In just

767
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: a moment, so much to sort of look at when

768
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: it comes to property as well. There's a fascinating book

769
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 2: out as Girl on Girl, a bit of a provocative title,

770
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 2: and it's about how the media in particular treat woman.

771
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 2: Bronwin Williams has chosen that is her book in our

772
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: book review in a few moments time. And then finally

773
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: we'll be talking about supply chains and how I make

774
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 2: my money from seven point thirty. And you may remember

775
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: I was asking about supply chains a little while ago.

776
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 2: Someone got in touch and said, actually I know someone

777
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: who knows all about supply chains, and you'll hear from

778
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 2: her a little later in the program. So I'm really

779
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 2: looking forward to that conversation. So there's all of that

780
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 2: to come in the next little while as well. Good

781
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 2: to hear from you, of course on a double ONEA

782
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: A three two two one four four six oh five

783
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 2: sixty seven and voice notes on seven two seven oh

784
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: two one seven oh two.

785
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 5: The Money Show with Stephen how on seven O two

786
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 5: seven o two.

787
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: Well, interesting just to see how things are all panning

788
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: out at the moment at the mining and darbor, but

789
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: also issues around property. And then you saw pick and

790
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: pays updates a little earlier. You heard that now Market

791
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 2: commentary tonight does seem that they are battling just a

792
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: little bit, and I kind of look forward. I'm sure

793
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: he'll make himself available because he's always been so good

794
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 2: about it. He'll speak to Sean Summers when they're ready

795
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: to release their results. I do think, and I just

796
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 2: keep coming back to this to try and recover. When

797
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 2: shopwriters on the march in this way, when it's so relentless,

798
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 2: I think that must be very difficult.

799
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 3: Stephen is on.

800
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 5: X at at Stephen kruittez If.

801
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: I think, like many people, including myself to an extent,

802
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 2: you believe that our economy is at an inflection point.

803
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 2: And if you're a property company like growth Point, or

804
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 2: you invest in commercial property, you're obviously looking for opportunities.

805
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 2: This is the moment. But even so I was interested

806
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 2: to see today that Growth Point is now looking a

807
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: little more involved in Kua Zulu Natel, despite the fact

808
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 2: they got their fingers a little burnt in twenty twenty one.

809
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: It does seem that growth Point is really looking at

810
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 2: spending a bit money more money in that particular province.

811
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,479
Speaker 2: Est and Declak is the CEO of Growth point essay,

812
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 2: est and good evening. Do appreciate the time on a

813
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 2: Monday night. What kind of opportunities are you looking for

814
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: in Kwazulin Etsel at the moment? I mean, where are

815
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 2: you looking.

816
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: Stephen?

817
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 8: Yes, so clearly the economy has sort of started lifting

818
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 8: a little bit, and as I think I mentioned, we're

819
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 8: starting to see a couple of green shoots in the

820
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 8: Quasilian Toteer area.

821
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 3: It's one of the few.

822
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 8: We own quite a bit of office on Mushlanga Ridge

823
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 8: and that of all that office is full at this stage.

824
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 8: Durban is very much anchored by the port, which is

825
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 8: a major logistics hub for South Africa, so there's quite

826
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 8: a bit of opportunity in the logistics space. And we

827
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 8: also own retail shopping centers there as well as a

828
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 8: couple of hospitals. So in all the areas we are

829
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 8: seeing a bit of opportunity. And we also mens the

830
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 8: development of a new student accommodation facility for our student

831
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 8: Accommodation fund.

832
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot more investment that's about to

833
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 2: happen around the port. Private operator at per two and

834
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 2: all the rest. I mean that would have a big

835
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: knock on effect for you there absolutely.

836
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 8: So the reality is, as we go where our clients

837
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 8: want to be, if that's the analogy that can be used,

838
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 8: we are service provider and ultimately we invest in that

839
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 8: market to obtain attractive returns. And if you're in a

840
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 8: market where demand is growing, then typically what would happen

841
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 8: is rentals would firm and off the back of that,

842
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 8: we'll get better terms.

843
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 3: Off the investments we're making.

844
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 8: So the reality is is that urban has gone through

845
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 8: quite a difficult time, and I think other than the

846
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 8: issues around let's say COVID and riots and all those things,

847
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 8: which are pretty well documented, I think the impact of

848
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 8: high interest rates across economy, you know, probably is one

849
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 8: of the most material things in the real estate space.

850
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 8: And we're hoping to see that those interest rates will start,

851
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 8: you know, venturing down from I think originally they were

852
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 8: put up by four point seventy five percent. Theyre down

853
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 8: about one point two five. We certainly believe their scope

854
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 8: for some more reductions given the print on inflation and

855
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 8: various things, so you know, hopefully that will be the

856
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 8: road ahead and that will reduce our cost of capital,

857
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 8: which means we can provide you know, hopefully the product

858
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 8: a little bit more affordable to our clients.

859
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 2: I'm smiling to myself, Estian, because I think you what

860
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,399
Speaker 2: you and the CEO of every single property company would

861
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: agree on is we could have interest rates. I don't

862
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: mean to.

863
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 3: Be really absolutely funey.

864
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 8: I think it's a.

865
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 3: Very key driver.

866
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 8: Sure, and you know, having gone through the past five

867
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 8: years the real estate industry, you certainly faced every plague

868
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 8: that was possibly possible and managed to survive. So I

869
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 8: think we are feeling a little bit more optimistic. And

870
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 8: you know, some of that.

871
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 3: Might be a bit misplaced. In that bond you have.

872
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 8: Firmed quite a bit, and off the back of that,

873
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 8: we've seen our cost of capital come down quite a

874
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 8: bit in our share prices have all re rated somewhat.

875
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 8: And you know, we've got very very good, deep access

876
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 8: to liquidity in the South African market from institutional investors

877
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 8: that would like to buy bonds. You know that we

878
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 8: can issue on the dead side, and then you know,

879
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 8: I think the equity investors at pension funds are all

880
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,959
Speaker 8: looking for more exposure to real estate in what will

881
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 8: be a more positive cycle for real estate.

882
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 2: Sure, I don't think anyone said certainly, no one that

883
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 2: I take seriously believes that what happened in Kuas Lunatel

884
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 2: five years ago in terms of the violence, will happen again.

885
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: I mean, is such an unlikely thing. I do worry

886
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 2: about flooding because the flooding that happened the here after

887
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: was devastating. I don't need to remind you ested and

888
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: I do think and certainly if you hear from insurance

889
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: companies the way that they are geocoding in that area,

890
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: all of those things, how worried are you about that?

891
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: I mean, there's some parts of the world, Florida, for example,

892
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 2: which people say might just become uninsurable. That's obviously we're

893
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 2: a long way from that and urban, but it does

894
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: worry me that that flooding was so intense, and you know,

895
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: if it's happened once.

896
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 3: Absolutely so.

897
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 8: I think there's a few things that you've raised that

898
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 8: it would be important from a real estate investment perspective.

899
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 8: I think, you know, from a security perspective, we as

900
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 8: a company certainly increasingly thinking about investing in real estate

901
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 8: precincts where we can have influence on the urban environment

902
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 8: that is created in and around our property. So not

903
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 8: just thinking about isolated building in a specific area, but

904
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:03,240
Speaker 8: more grouping your assets and and having influence on, for instance,

905
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 8: how keen the environment is, how secure it is, and

906
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:13,959
Speaker 8: being able to affordably provide those services given that unfortunately

907
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 8: many of our metros are not as functional as we'd

908
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,240
Speaker 8: like them to be, and that spiacks then to you know,

909
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 8: what happened with the floods was many of the poets

910
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 8: of the infrastructure had not been maintained, which compounded the issue.

911
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 8: So when we look at where we invest, we quite

912
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 8: careful at ensuring that the infrastructure around us is reasonably

913
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 8: well maintained. Quite often we are actually putting in that

914
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 8: infrastructure ourselves. As the real estate industry, increasingly we're playing

915
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 8: a much bigger role in infrastructure, whether it's power, water,

916
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 8: or road infrastructure. And on the back of that, you know,

917
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 8: we can make sure the job's well done and that

918
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 8: these assets are well maintained. So it has an impact

919
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 8: on our costs because the same metros are very eager

920
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 8: to continually increase the rates and taxes and the service

921
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 8: charges so that they levy against the industry, and we

922
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 8: obviously providing many of these services now ourselves, so it

923
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 8: is something that is a key factor and the certain

924
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 8: things and to tell that Urban Metro is not one

925
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 8: of the cheaper metros to invest in.

926
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 2: It's also where in the metro you invest right. So

927
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 2: if I understanding correctly, you tend to avoid CBDs, you

928
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 2: deliberately go elsewhere, correct.

929
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 8: So we our target clients are usually the larger corporates

930
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 8: in South Africa, and if you think about the Durban context,

931
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 8: most of those corporates have moved out towards the Schlunger Ridge,

932
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 8: so that's where we providing them services. And I mean,

933
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 8: as we say speak there's a new demand for offers,

934
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 8: there's more demand for logistics space. So the demand is

935
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 8: definitely there from those clients. And because we have grouped

936
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 8: our assets in that area, we can have a bit

937
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 8: of an impact on, you know, ensuring that the environment

938
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 8: around these assets are well managed.

939
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 2: I suppose the other thing when you look at it

940
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 2: is what opportunity there might be in what sector And

941
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 2: there is a university there, people haven't really built student

942
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 2: accommodation in that area for a while, and suddenly that

943
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 2: might be a huge opportunity. And the demand for higher

944
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,439
Speaker 2: education in South Africa is only going to grow, these

945
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 2: institutions are going to have to expand we'll need more

946
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 2: of them in that market for student accommodation surely should

947
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 2: go up and.

948
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 8: Up absolutely for the Student Accommodation Fund. We've certainly identified

949
00:51:55,640 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 8: that opportunity and been able to you know, start develop

950
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 8: in areas where actually there hasn't been developed developments for

951
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 8: students for several years and I'm talking decades. So in

952
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 8: Durban we've commenced literally at the entrance of the Howard

953
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 8: College campus.

954
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 3: Of Nattel University.

955
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 8: We're developing a new facility, purpose built student accommodation of

956
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 8: about two and a half thousand beds, which will be

957
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 8: ready in twenty twenty seven. And that would be an

958
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 8: example of that. Not only are we providing or looking

959
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 8: to provide a student accommodation to let's call it government

960
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 8: owned universities, but we also the private sector growth is

961
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 8: actually very impressive. So there are quite a few private

962
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 8: sector players playing in higher education and they are developing

963
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 8: new campuses.

964
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 3: As we speak, and strategically.

965
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 8: We're looking to partner with them by providing student accommodation

966
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 8: for students that would like to go to those private

967
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 8: universities as well, so it's pretty much across the board

968
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 8: and the kind of product that we are providing, as

969
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 8: I mentioned earlier, as purpose built. So you know, we

970
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 8: think through things like ensuring power and water and to

971
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 8: these facilities and Wi Fi and security are all very

972
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 8: key to the product that ultimately and the students require.

973
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: This may seem a strange question to ask someone who

974
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 2: runs a property company, but let me put it to you.

975
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 2: St In, we were talking about diamonds earlier on The

976
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 2: Money Show, and someone made the very important point that

977
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 2: a diamonds, which we were told were forever for a

978
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 2: very long time, no longer are and we're looking at

979
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 2: the end of the diamond industry. As a result of that,

980
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: the world is changing in unexpected ways, a lot more

981
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 2: kind of virtuality in some ways. Younger generations in some

982
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 2: countries are actually spending less time socializing with each each other.

983
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 2: Is property still the investment it was fifty years ago?

984
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 2: I mean, my God says yes. But I'm looking for

985
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 2: an intellectual argument from you.

986
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 8: Look, I mean I am clearly biased, right so running

987
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 8: a real estate company, I firmly believe that real estate

988
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 8: is a great investment and will continue to be a

989
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 8: great diversifier of wealth and is arguably one of the

990
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:28,240
Speaker 8: largest industries on the planet. And when thinking about real estate,

991
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 8: very much is about people and connecting people. And if

992
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 8: you think about people going to offices or students going

993
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 8: to a campus, the reason why they want to do

994
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 8: that is because they want to connect. And the magic

995
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 8: happens when people do connect. Now, those environments where they

996
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 8: connect is what we specialize, and I honestly do believe

997
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 8: that that will continue. The way they connect often is changing,

998
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 8: and that means that there are things that we have

999
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 8: to take into account and we have to adapt, and

1000
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 8: like any other industry, we have to continue to innovate

1001
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 8: to provide the service that the market requires. But there

1002
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 8: is no doubt in my mind anybody that's been working

1003
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 8: in Sandton over the past five years would have seen

1004
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 8: quite an interesting shift initially, and as we sit here today,

1005
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 8: I can tell you that it's a significant change from

1006
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 8: what it was two years ago. As companies realize that

1007
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,439
Speaker 8: in order to have a culture, in order to have

1008
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 8: loyalty from your employees, they do need to connect otherwise

1009
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 8: that they can pretty much work for anybody anywhere on

1010
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 8: the planet. And yes, there are certain industries that are

1011
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 8: more likely to functionally be able to provide their services

1012
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 8: like that, but many organizations pivot on the skills and

1013
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 8: the connection between people.

1014
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: Stnder Clark, thanks so much the point, I say, really

1015
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Twenty three after seven.

1016
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 5: My show for Business Books.

1017
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 2: Well, the book this week is called Girl on Girl

1018
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 2: by Sophie Gilbert. Bronwin Williams is the trend translator and

1019
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 2: future finance specialist Flax Trends Bronwin, Good Evening. It's a book.

1020
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 2: You've got to be very careful when you google it

1021
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 2: for obvious reasons, and that's kind of the point. This

1022
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: is what this book is about. It's about how the

1023
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 2: media treats women, I suppose in a way particularly young women,

1024
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 2: and is completely different to the way it treats men.

1025
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 14: Yes, well I picked that because, as your listeners might, no,

1026
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 14: I do Carlo reviews. I'm supposed in the future space,

1027
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 14: but I'm also a trained economist and one of the

1028
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 14: things that I'm really interested in is the effects of that.

1029
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 14: I call it the commoditization of care on our economy

1030
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 14: and on our society. And that's why this book was

1031
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 14: an interesting and challenging read to bring to a business show,

1032
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 14: even though it's really more about society. What it's really

1033
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 14: speaking about is how feminism as we know it, where

1034
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 14: it has collided with capitalism as we know it today,

1035
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 14: has put woman into this impossible choice of either being

1036
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 14: exploited or exploiting yourself, as though that's somehow more empowering.

1037
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 14: Hello OnlyFans, and of course the normalization of porn or

1038
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 14: qualification of like normalcy, which is kind of the world

1039
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 14: that we have it in today. So what the author

1040
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:31,959
Speaker 14: sophy does It takes you through really a whiplash tour

1041
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 14: of the history of that increasing sort of commoditization of

1042
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 14: the self that has been effectively the sort of current

1043
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 14: stage of feminism that we're at, this idea that you

1044
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 14: have to sell yourself in order to survive starts of

1045
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 14: quite denying. You know, you get to look good for Instagram,

1046
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 14: and that course means that you will get more attention.

1047
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 14: If you get more money, you can get more like.

1048
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 14: But okay, if you take off a few more clothes,

1049
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 14: you can do it on OnlyFans and you can make you.

1050
00:57:58,280 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 10: More money there.

1051
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 14: Expact, if you're a child star, it's now the Disney

1052
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 14: Straight Store. Ony fans pipeline. It's become quite normalized. And

1053
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 14: it's particularly interesting to dive into this conversation in the

1054
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 14: weeks where the world is busy discussing the Epstein files

1055
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 14: and what isn't is not inside them because all these

1056
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 14: things are so related.

1057
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 2: Could they be and I'm going to delve into very

1058
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 2: deep waters here that are well below my hair, well

1059
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 2: above my head. Could it also lead to woman feeling

1060
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: they have to make particular choices. It creates a kind

1061
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 2: of false binary, even to the point of what do

1062
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 2: I wear to the business meeting? How do I deal

1063
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 2: with this very difficult conversation? How do I behave in

1064
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 2: a tough negotiation when I want this? All of those

1065
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 2: things are happening, maybe unconsciously, maybe quite consciously, or because

1066
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 2: of this pornographization of media.

1067
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 14: Yes exactly, and the pornomiphization of the self. I mean,

1068
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 14: Mary hern is another amazing writer that's right into the

1069
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 14: space too. But I think you kind of hits it

1070
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 14: on the head. And that's why the tsole is of

1071
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 14: course a pun that it's this idea that it becomes

1072
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 14: a sort of self reinforcing and self policing system that

1073
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 14: under the guise of freedom. Women need to accept being

1074
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 14: exploited by themselves or by others in order to maintain

1075
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 14: their place in society. And this is it's actually quite

1076
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 14: interesting in terms of like a tragedy of the commons,

1077
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 14: kind of an economic very game, right, or a zero

1078
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 14: sum game, a race to the bottom. So if we know,

1079
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 14: and unfortunately it is a truth, but if you look younger,

1080
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 14: and you are sinner, and you are taller, you're going

1081
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 14: to get paid more in the workplace, right. I mean

1082
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 14: they say age discrimination as women in particular, starts taking

1083
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 14: place when it comes in terms of mispromotions all the

1084
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 14: way from the age of thirty five. You're not even

1085
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 14: halfway through your life, but you're already like too old,

1086
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 14: which means it's distensible economic fit is to get the botox,

1087
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 14: take the odama, and maintain your social value. But by

1088
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 14: doing that, you're putting more pressure onto the next woman

1089
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 14: and the next goal to do the same, because by

1090
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 14: not doing that, you're even even more money on the table,

1091
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 14: and the difference between those who are playing the game

1092
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 14: and those who are not playing the game becomes more stark.

1093
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 14: I mean, it's it's not just women, it's also meniful

1094
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 14: into this trap's like the leg lengthening surgery, and this

1095
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 14: idea of having to sort of, you know, remake yourself

1096
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 14: to fit in with the norm that nobody really wants,

1097
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 14: that everybody is doing because that's what pays. And that's

1098
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 14: what's so.

1099
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,919
Speaker 3: Interesting about this, just to to sort of.

1100
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 2: In the media, in my experience of newsrooms, women have

1101
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: always outnumbered men, and I'm sure that's probably the case

1102
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 2: in the entertainment media too, and yet this still happens,

1103
01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 2: And isn't that interesting, says Stephen bravely.

1104
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 14: Yes, exactly. That's the point around the self policing that

1105
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 14: in fact women become their own enforces and their own

1106
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 14: enflavors in the system, because it's the choices that individual

1107
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 14: women make that sort of limited or exchange the choices

1108
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 14: that other women, particularly younger women have. It's the law

1109
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 14: models that we have, it's the promotions that we get.

1110
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 14: I think I've surely spoken about it on the show before.

1111
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 14: There was that infamous Queen Bee paper that came out

1112
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 14: one of the Capsan universities that looked at how in

1113
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 14: South Africa a lot of the pay gap in corporate

1114
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 14: South Africa actually came from women bosses not hiring younger

1115
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 14: women and not from men not hiring women like men

1116
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 14: were hiring and promoting almost equitably, but women had the

1117
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 14: stark gap about these of ordiness because of this idea

1118
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 14: of competition and scarcity. Now uncharitably that that's not very

1119
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 14: nice of the women in power, But with a little

1120
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 14: more pragnatism, you have to understand that she's doing this

1121
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 14: because she does know that as a little abused into

1122
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 14: her hive puts her roast right. It's the sort of

1123
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 14: system to be built for ourselves that we become part,

1124
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 14: We become actor in perpetuating the same hearts, much like

1125
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 14: a sort of reading as a schools universities. It's men,

1126
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 14: of course, quite known for, but it is the sort

1127
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 14: of self if one woman is exploiting herself. If we

1128
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 14: see celebrities showing up at awards shows literally in the nude,

1129
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 14: like I'm sure we thought also the Grammys pictures beautiful,

1130
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 14: but also kind of pushing the boundaries, it means the

1131
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 14: next woman has that much more pressure could do the thing,

1132
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 14: because that's where the bye is now set in terms

1133
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 14: of compliance. So if you don't comply, of course you

1134
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 14: being difficult or even regressive, which is where you've got

1135
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 14: the sort of really ironic side of feminism that it

1136
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 14: doesn't pay to be conservative, and that by being conservative

1137
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 14: in yourself you are not actually being a feminist. So

1138
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 14: we've kind of talked to ourselves into the circle where

1139
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 14: feminism equals self exploitation, which is not what anyone intended

1140
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 14: to do with the sort of outstates of the sexual revolution,

1141
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 14: which is kind of where the book starts and busswards

1142
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 14: all the way to the mess we find ourselves in today,

1143
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 14: particularly with young girls who are now already unlike skincare

1144
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 14: regimes from the age of teen or eleven, which is

1145
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 14: just incredible.

1146
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is Ronin Williams, thank you so much, really

1147
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Ronin Williams is a trend translator and future

1148
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 2: finance specialist with Flux Trends. The book is called provocatively

1149
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 2: Girl on Girl. It's by Sophie Gilbert.

1150
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 5: How Money, So How I make my money?

1151
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 2: Twenty one minutes now to eighth the time. So you

1152
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 2: may remember a few weeks ago, I told a story.

1153
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 2: I told a story. It came from writers about Starbucks

1154
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 2: in the US and the supply chain problems that they've had,

1155
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 2: and they've been one or two other questions about supply chains,

1156
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 2: and I mentioned at the time I was quite keen

1157
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 2: to find out a bit more about how they work,

1158
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 2: what that business is like, what happens when things go wrong,

1159
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 2: and I think we kind of know shelves are empty,

1160
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 2: et cetera. Well, almost out of noahs, someone who was

1161
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 2: listening emailed me and said, well, actually we know someone

1162
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 2: who knows all about that, and I'm very pleased to

1163
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 2: tell you that that someone has agreed to speak to

1164
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:13,439
Speaker 2: you tonight. Lorato Sabata is a procurement and supply chain

1165
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 2: expert and CEO of the ROI Group. Loraato are put

1166
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 2: out to the universe, does anyone know about these things?

1167
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 2: And here you are. Thanks so much for agreeing to

1168
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 2: speak to us tonight.

1169
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 15: Can even Stephen thank you so much for having me

1170
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 15: and the listeners?

1171
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 2: Well, what is it about? I mean, I see a

1172
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 2: supply chain and I think in my head it's this

1173
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 2: thing that moves stuff from one place to another. You've

1174
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 2: made a career out of it. What's so interesting about

1175
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 2: supply chains that you've been able to work in it

1176
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 2: for so long?

1177
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 15: Well, thank you for that. So supply chain to be

1178
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 15: honest with you, is basically invisible economy if we think

1179
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 15: of it like that, when things work, people don't tend

1180
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 15: to notice. But if anything actually stars affecting you as

1181
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 15: a customer, there is a noticing stuff like changes and

1182
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 15: price shortages and stock you know, business being in distress,

1183
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 15: we have issues around delivery. So that's when as a

1184
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 15: customer is not feeling actually the vailuve supply chain. And

1185
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 15: for me, that's what made it interesting because I can

1186
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 15: feel intangibly delivered this product, you know, to a particular

1187
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 15: customer that which is using and most of even being

1188
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 15: very visible logistics. We see them on the road every

1189
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 15: single day and basically that's what moves one idea into

1190
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 15: actual product the customer can use. And that's what's so

1191
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 15: refreshing for me to be in this career.

1192
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 2: How did you get into it? You know, most many

1193
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 2: mining executives started as an engineer. Some of them started underground.

1194
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: How do you get into supply chains?

1195
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 15: You know, a very interesting story. I was sitting on

1196
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 15: my line at my aligne with my sister's friend. You know,

1197
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 15: during metric you know, you're not sure what you want

1198
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 15: to do the next year, and it busy debating. It's

1199
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 15: just a really informal conversation and she just said, do

1200
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 15: you want to consider logistics? And I didn't even know

1201
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 15: what that meant, and I obviously went to just research

1202
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 15: and I was I just immediately fell in love with

1203
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 15: the idea of I could relate with logistics. And that's

1204
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 15: just how I ended up being in the supply and field,

1205
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 15: where I did a lot of my work in procurement,

1206
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 15: you know, and we'rehousing and manufacturing and the lot. So

1207
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 15: that's what basically inspired and I landed into the career.

1208
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 2: Is there something satisfying about the physicality of it? By

1209
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 2: which I mean and I'm going to use I'm going

1210
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 2: to use cans of beans a lot over the next

1211
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 2: to the world because I need an example of something

1212
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 2: that we all know. But but but is it? Is

1213
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 2: it because you could you can tell whether the cans

1214
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 2: of beans got to where they were supposed to get

1215
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 2: to at the right time. Is that maybe quite satisfying

1216
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 2: in a way that I don't know? Lecturing history isn't.

1217
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 15: You could say that because firstly, it's relatable, you know,

1218
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 15: and one can be very inquisitive to understand where are

1219
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 15: these kinds of being sourced from, who packages them, who

1220
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 15: delivers them? You know what makes up the price of

1221
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 15: that kind of you know beans, And if there's any issues,

1222
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 15: what does that look like from a this logistics perspective,

1223
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 15: do you understand so? Yes, in terms of relatability, absolutely so.

1224
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 15: I think that's a lot more easier for one to

1225
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 15: follow through, you know, versus the invisible world. You know

1226
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 15: what I mean.

1227
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 2: I mean, when you visualize a supply chain, do you

1228
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 2: carry a sort of image of something around in your head?

1229
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 2: I kind of have. It's a very silly image, but

1230
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 2: I have an image of a very old fashioned kind

1231
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 2: of car production system, you know, as a production line,

1232
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 2: except that the production line starts you know, growing the

1233
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 2: beans and ends in a whole series of shopping centers

1234
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 2: in different places.

1235
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 15: Yeah, you could look at it like that, but you see,

1236
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 15: for simplicity reason, think of it like playing really, you know,

1237
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 15: on a field, one person passes the betton to another

1238
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 15: person until the finish line. So when you start sourcing manufacturers,

1239
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 15: you get onto that how do those products move from

1240
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 15: that place to the next, which is now logistics planning

1241
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 15: as all supply chain, and in that's where a lot

1242
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 15: of issues happen, challenges, miscalculation, late deliveries there storage storage

1243
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 15: includes money. If you overstore a product for two lungs,

1244
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 15: that losing out in even you you know. And now

1245
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 15: there's also delivery to the actual customer itself, you know

1246
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 15: that uses the particular product. And now behind all of

1247
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:45,679
Speaker 15: that whole chain, there's systems, there's it, there's AI. Now

1248
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 15: you know, there's a whole lot of outset complexities that

1249
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 15: are behind the chain where where you can almost visualize

1250
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 15: it like that, and when you start experiencing more relatable

1251
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 15: even topics. Now, which is maybe more topical is let's

1252
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 15: just say maybe for example, the whole issue with the

1253
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 15: timber is a hospital. Those are all supplying challenges because

1254
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:10,559
Speaker 15: it included the intiquities of how pricumanism was handled, and

1255
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 15: that's part of a value chain in the process flow,

1256
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 15: you know. So therefore is how then do we ensure

1257
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:26,640
Speaker 15: ultimately delivery. It speaks to the sourcing element and the

1258
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 15: sourcing elements the people behind the decisions of such type

1259
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 15: of activity.

1260
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 2: The older I get, the more I realized that experts

1261
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 2: and things often have mathematical equations for things. So I mean,

1262
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 2: I'm always it took me a while to get my

1263
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 2: brain around this. But there are mathematical equations for traffic, right,

1264
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:53,520
Speaker 2: are there certain rules even mathematical equations perhaps for supply chains?

1265
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 2: If you one to move a whole series of things

1266
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 2: from places ab, CD and E to you know, X,

1267
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 2: y Z and good listeners where else you have to

1268
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 2: follow these rules? Are that kind of quite sort of

1269
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 2: standardized ways of doing things?

1270
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 16: There must be, yeah, absolutely so rules In terms of

1271
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:23,559
Speaker 16: how a product is sourced, there is rules and how

1272
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:26,760
Speaker 16: you advertise, you know, let's just say, for example, there

1273
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 16: is a need to procure new facility in.

1274
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:33,839
Speaker 15: Africa somewhere because we want to build maybe a brewery

1275
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 15: for example. They the sourcing element you need to participate

1276
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 15: in in country requirement that you need to pass through

1277
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,560
Speaker 15: as its and that those are part of the you know,

1278
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 15: the earlier part of sourcing, and that's very intentional and

1279
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:54,560
Speaker 15: you cannot just go and build it, you know what

1280
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 15: I mean, or any facility for that matter. And that's

1281
01:10:57,560 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 15: where the rules come in. And then there's also how

1282
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 15: a new source that particular facility then comes into play,

1283
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 15: which is now your procurement process which is highly governed

1284
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 15: and you are operating within frameworks and the selection process,

1285
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 15: and then there's also now the awarded service providers on

1286
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 15: the ground to implement this. Also the framework that must

1287
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 15: work within from a health and safety perspective, quality perspective,

1288
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 15: you know, all the standards. So all of these things

1289
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,879
Speaker 15: operate within frameworks and rules. Yes, until to a particular

1290
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,720
Speaker 15: customer and I'll end up using the particular product or

1291
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 15: service at the end. So in that there's a heavy

1292
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:37,959
Speaker 15: compliance and governance duties in that process.

1293
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:42,639
Speaker 2: So what I mean is when you want to build

1294
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 2: a supply chailer rato, there must be ways in which

1295
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 2: you start, and you know that if you don't do

1296
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 2: it like this, it's not going to work. So what

1297
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 2: I'm talking about is I'm not worried about compliances. I'm

1298
01:11:54,400 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 2: talking about established procedures for making a supply chain work.

1299
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 15: It takes They're all interconnected, right, It's not a singular

1300
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 15: it's not singularly managed because remember, if business operates with

1301
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 15: other functions that should make it work, So you will

1302
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 15: require it. It will require maybe in inventory team, it

1303
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:21,759
Speaker 15: will require systems, you know, so all of those things,

1304
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 15: when you put them together to establish a supply chain

1305
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 15: will ultimately become one and how do we see this work.

1306
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:31,360
Speaker 15: Let's say for global supply chains, if you're moving any

1307
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 15: product from America into South Africa, there are rules of

1308
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 15: inter trade you know that you must work within and

1309
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 15: how you end up lending into other parts of the countries.

1310
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:45,680
Speaker 15: So yes, in terms of answering that question, what.

1311
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 2: Are the things that go wrong most often? And I

1312
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 2: want to say hey, and I say this based from

1313
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 2: headlines and not entirely serious. An upgrade to an sap

1314
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:59,640
Speaker 2: it TC system seems to lead to the biggest problems.

1315
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 2: I have my tongue in my cheek, but a change

1316
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 2: to an IT system seems to lead to so many

1317
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 2: supply chain problems that we can see as consumers.

1318
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:13,679
Speaker 15: M In terms of what what goes wrong?

1319
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 2: Yes, what what goes wrong most often with the supply chain?

1320
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 15: A lot of it is poor planning and underestimating the

1321
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 15: value of the IT system that can manage that type

1322
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 15: of plans and planning, I mean from demand for example,

1323
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:34,560
Speaker 15: you could under you know, plan from a demand perspective,

1324
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 15: or supply chains could be maybe designed to for example,

1325
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 15: let's say Starbucks, they've designed to in the front end

1326
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 15: of a shop to sell beverages, but now over time

1327
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 15: because of customers need variety. Then you start introducing other

1328
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 15: products and that means you have to start changing how

1329
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 15: that was supposed to have flow in the beginning. And

1330
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 15: now there's more people that need more food than it

1331
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:58,599
Speaker 15: was with beverages. So are you ready now? So therefore

1332
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 15: that means you mus start adding more suppliers to meet

1333
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 15: the quick customer demands. Then let's ask the new age.

1334
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 15: You are not order online. Now you're adding another dynamic

1335
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:10,639
Speaker 15: and introducing you know, ordering systems and automation and all

1336
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 15: of that must move first right and ultimately HASMA being

1337
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 15: heavy the promised timeline, and therefore that starts creating a

1338
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:18,799
Speaker 15: lot of challenges if it's not well planned.

1339
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:22,639
Speaker 2: So and then so the biggest problem really is that

1340
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 2: that people just aren't upgrading when they should. I mean,

1341
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 2: it's like everything you have to upgrade at the right time.

1342
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 15: Yes, and sometimes then you buy leader sy systems that's

1343
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:34,120
Speaker 15: been there for so long that we're not able to

1344
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 15: perform for them. Now demand you know if you now

1345
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,719
Speaker 15: and now maybe air on AI to assist with the planning.

1346
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:43,799
Speaker 15: But the current leader systems are they able to upgrade

1347
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 15: you to that particular software or the particular system, which

1348
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 15: is a challenge, you know, and there's quality failures and

1349
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 15: real works delays. And the big part also is the

1350
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 15: LAD payments. You know, if you're paying your suppliers lad,

1351
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 15: they can't get you and order on time. That's another issue,

1352
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:00,320
Speaker 15: you know. So it comes and interconnected challenges that over

1353
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 15: all create these type of challenges over time.

1354
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 2: We're speaking to Lorato Sabata tonight to procurement and supply

1355
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 2: chain expert CEO of the ROI Group. We're talking matters

1356
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 2: supply chain on The Money Show nine minutes now to eight.

1357
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 3: The Money Show.

1358
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 9: Step Encuts is brought to you by Absolve Corporate and

1359
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 9: Investment Banking Balancing economic growth with ecosystems. That's how they've

1360
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:25,879
Speaker 9: invested in your.

1361
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:30,759
Speaker 5: Story our Money Show, How I make my money.

1362
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 2: Talking matters supply chain tonight, and of course been a

1363
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 2: while since so we've been able to speak to someone

1364
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 2: about this issue, but just getting a deeper understanding of

1365
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 2: how it all works. Lorato Sabata is the procurement and

1366
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 2: supply chain expert and CEO of the ROI Group. Lorrato,

1367
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:50,479
Speaker 2: I think a lot of us hadn't really thought much

1368
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:54,639
Speaker 2: of supply chains until the pandemic came along and suddenly

1369
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:57,639
Speaker 2: we were thinking about supply chains all the time. I remember,

1370
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 2: as the lockdown, we're starting talking about food supply change,

1371
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 2: you know, and I was suddenly very interested in food

1372
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:07,800
Speaker 2: supply chains have supply change because some of them were disrupted,

1373
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 2: not food necessarily, but others were. Have supply change changed

1374
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:15,040
Speaker 2: much since the pandemic. There was lots of talk of

1375
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 2: near shoring and things like that. Have supply change really

1376
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:18,559
Speaker 2: changed since then?

1377
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 15: Yes, I think a lot of businesses have really treated

1378
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:26,520
Speaker 15: supply chain now those type of challenges that we're experienced

1379
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 15: in COVID as more of a business continuity, you know.

1380
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 15: It's more like the Blacks one that was the first

1381
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 15: thing that has happened that cost the disruption that we experienced,

1382
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:38,720
Speaker 15: and now risk you know, management and mitigation plans have

1383
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:41,920
Speaker 15: put in place have now you know, transformed that part

1384
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 15: of thinking tomorrow, how do we continue business if such happens?

1385
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 15: In that to be more practical, there's more introduction of

1386
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 15: supply diversity, you know, and sourcing closer to home, you know,

1387
01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 15: in we have issues of localization. A lot of the

1388
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 15: items are important, you know. There isn't my certain happening locally.

1389
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 15: The government is trying very hard to to amplify their

1390
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 15: bee you know, performance and participation just from that localization.

1391
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 15: I think that happened post COVID really was another amplifier

1392
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 15: in that which we need to solve for and that

1393
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,559
Speaker 15: has been you know, starting to come up to place

1394
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 15: entightening a lot more contracts and service levels, right, and

1395
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:26,840
Speaker 15: how then to become more creative bellion panels where some

1396
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 15: supporting leaders say, how we now source service providerers through

1397
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 15: our process in procurement, we want to look for innovation

1398
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 15: in the like of if something like of it could happen,

1399
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 15: So innvases starting to become the center part of how

1400
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:43,759
Speaker 15: you then award a particular contracts you know, and particular

1401
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 15: performance structure so that you're not found in a vulnerable position.

1402
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 2: It's difficult for a company, though, isn't it, because you

1403
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:52,360
Speaker 2: you would have had let me call it, a pre

1404
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 2: pandemic and a post pandemic supply line, and a pre

1405
01:17:57,240 --> 01:17:59,719
Speaker 2: pandemic supply chain might have cost to one hundred rand,

1406
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 2: say for argument's sake, and a post pandemic production line

1407
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 2: or supply line a supply chain that you need cost

1408
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 2: you twenty percent more than that for something that's only

1409
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 2: happened once in sort of five generations. I mean to

1410
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 2: try and manage the cost of that to do it correctly.

1411
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:19,000
Speaker 2: There might be some companies that will say, no, we're

1412
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 2: not going to plan for a black Swan event. We're

1413
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 2: just going to take the profit while we can.

1414
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean, ultimately we need to move with the

1415
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 15: times and move with where the market is going. We

1416
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 15: have a high pressure with interest rates, economies are changing,

1417
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 15: tobalizations happening is just becoming a big thing. So companies

1418
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 15: are really under pressure to start also aligning with those

1419
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 15: type of games. And now you cannot go bit pre

1420
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 15: covid right. And also your competitors are aligning themselves in

1421
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 15: that particular way. So therefore you will either be stuck

1422
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:54,479
Speaker 15: or move. And those are they come with the challenges

1423
01:18:54,479 --> 01:19:01,439
Speaker 15: of prices increase and you know these type of dynamics.

1424
01:18:58,840 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 2: The ways supply chains are going. Now, are they going

1425
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:07,639
Speaker 2: to involve fewer humans? I mean, obviously humans will design

1426
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 2: them and still do a lot of the work, but

1427
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 2: do you get a sense I think people are going

1428
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:14,760
Speaker 2: to mechanize more and more, and you know, feel free

1429
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:17,639
Speaker 2: to throw the phrase in AI somewhere. Everyone's talking about

1430
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 2: robots at the moment.

1431
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 15: Yeah, that's a topical thing now, which I also had

1432
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,599
Speaker 15: a conversation with one of the leaders in the finance

1433
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:30,120
Speaker 15: industries recently that you know, a lot there is now

1434
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:34,320
Speaker 15: designs regarding the robots of how to respond to what

1435
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:35,760
Speaker 15: we don't want to do every day. You know, there's

1436
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 15: a repetitive work that you do every day and how

1437
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 15: can I do that faster? But now you're probably going

1438
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 15: to need a human being to to correct that and

1439
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 15: maybe insert of input particular probmts that should enable what

1440
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 15: you want to get out of that. So it's still

1441
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 15: a growing conversation, to be honest, but the future is

1442
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 15: going there. But at some point it would have been

1443
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:58,599
Speaker 15: fully transformed into AI slash automation. But now humans must

1444
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 15: also transform because one of the interest recurement or supplich

1445
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:05,599
Speaker 15: has is lack of skills. Are we sourcing the right

1446
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 15: people for today's world of how we want this to

1447
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:11,959
Speaker 15: appli chas to work efficiently? That's another thing. Talent management

1448
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:14,680
Speaker 15: another problem, you.

1449
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 2: Know, I mean, I would imagine you know that you

1450
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 2: need people to design these things. It must be a

1451
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:22,719
Speaker 2: very interesting career to get into and at times quite

1452
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:24,760
Speaker 2: exciting and quite challenging if things go wrong.

1453
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 15: Yeah, you need people to design this, but also it's

1454
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:33,639
Speaker 15: more also on the new age youth that is designing

1455
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 15: this new type of creative innovation and markets also market ready.

1456
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 15: If you look at our market, it's so much secondary

1457
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:43,720
Speaker 15: to the European market, so we always play catch up.

1458
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:46,080
Speaker 15: And at the time we catch up, is it where

1459
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 15: supplition is at the global landscape? It's another challenge in

1460
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:49,759
Speaker 15: a question.

1461
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 2: You know that rate, is that rate of change speeding up?

1462
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:55,639
Speaker 2: So it's interrupted? I mean, is it moving more quickly

1463
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 2: than it did, say twenty years ago.

1464
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 15: I believe it's taking up right now, especially with like

1465
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 15: the two thousand sort of generation going forward and how

1466
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:12,720
Speaker 15: things are today versus the prior generation. So absolutely the

1467
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 15: spirit of it is moved at and before, though it

1468
01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 15: might not be the skill that it would be with

1469
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:19,680
Speaker 15: the Europeans, I would say that or Chinese, you know, in.

1470
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 2: A way, Lorato, thanks so much, really enjoy it. Lorato

1471
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:27,120
Speaker 2: Sabat is a procurement and supply chain expert and CEO

1472
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 2: of the ROI Group.

1473
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 9: The Money Show Still Encruets is brought to you by

1474
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:39,120
Speaker 9: Absolve corporate and investment backing balancing economic growth with ecosystems.

1475
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:42,000
Speaker 9: That's how they've invested in your story.

1476
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 2: Well, obviously taking a quick look at what's happening with

1477
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 2: some of the markets around the world at the moment,

1478
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 2: and various things going on in terms of what's happening

1479
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 2: with the US market certainly looking relatively positive actually compared

1480
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:02,559
Speaker 2: to what we've seen in recent days. Trying to bring

1481
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 2: you the actual numbers, but I'm afraid my device has

1482
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:08,840
Speaker 2: decided that that's enough. It's tired of this Monday, and

1483
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:12,160
Speaker 2: therefore it is just going to give in. And you know, frankly,

1484
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 2: there are days when I can't really blame it. We'll

1485
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:17,760
Speaker 2: be back tomorrow. There'll be a lot more from the

1486
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 2: mining in Darbor, but also starting to really look at

1487
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:23,559
Speaker 2: what's happening ahead of the state of the nation addressed,

1488
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:25,800
Speaker 2: and we'll bring that live to you during the time

1489
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:28,559
Speaker 2: The Money Show is normally on air on Thursday. See

1490
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 2: you tomorrow, good evening.

1491
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 3: It's editor