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Speaker 1: You with Cape Talk. This is Purpaton on lunch. It's

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Speaker 1: movie club today, not book club, and we are turning

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Speaker 1: the spotlight on a local film called The Heart is

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Speaker 1: a Muscle Now. It is partly human drama, partly crime thriller.

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Speaker 1: It's said right here in Cape Town. There is a

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Speaker 1: lot to make local audiences want to go and watch it,

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Speaker 1: and I really want to urge you to go and

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Speaker 1: support it when it opens on Circuit next week. You

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Speaker 1: may recognize that name because this is the film that

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Speaker 1: was actually chosen as South Africa's entry for the OSCARS

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Speaker 1: Best International Film category this year. And look, it might

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Speaker 1: not have made the final list of nominees, but we

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Speaker 1: suspect it is going to win hearts at home when

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Speaker 1: it does open on Circuit next Friday, the sixth of March.

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Speaker 1: And we are so pleased to have with us in

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Speaker 1: studio today the lead actor Keenan Harrison, as well as

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Speaker 1: the writer and director of the piece, I Ranhamdula. Thank

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Speaker 1: you both so much for coming into studio. Great to

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Speaker 1: have you with us. It's a pleasure. And have to

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Speaker 1: say upfront, I haven't seen the movie yet. I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to see the movie, but please forgive me in

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Speaker 1: my ignorance, and I hope you will fill and the

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Speaker 1: gaps for me if I miss anythinking. Iron I believe

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Speaker 1: it's your feature directorial debut. But tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your background.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: So I've been directing for about seven or eight years now,

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Speaker 3: between commercials and features, and you know, this is I

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Speaker 3: was lucky enough to come in touch with Adam pal

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Speaker 3: from Star Films and he believed in me, you know,

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Speaker 3: from day one. I pitched him just a few sentences

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Speaker 3: and he said, I love this. Can we talk about it?

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Speaker 3: And within a year and a half we had a

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Speaker 3: movie on our hands and.

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Speaker 1: A script that you'd written. You're the writer as well

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Speaker 1: as the director. Yes, yeah, I am. Now. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's being described as a movie that touches on themes

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Speaker 1: of intergenerational trauma and of forgiveness and self forgiveness. Talk

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Speaker 1: to us about the origin of this film as an idea.

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Speaker 1: What made you want to write and explore that scene?

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Speaker 3: You know the films. Actually it's based on an actual

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Speaker 3: incident that happened. Were with some friends, some of my

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Speaker 3: closest friends, and his son went missing and as viewers

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Speaker 3: will see in the film, that's the that's what begins

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Speaker 3: the film. And we'veventually found his son. You know, he

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Speaker 3: was just like being naughty, was hiding somewhere. But in

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Speaker 3: that moment, all the friends we went into action, Jason

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Speaker 3: Bourne and you know, everyone driving around. But in my friend,

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Speaker 3: I'd never seen such fear in his eyes as we

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Speaker 3: were searching. And then once we found his son, I'd

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Speaker 3: never seen him that angry before, and that sparked the

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Speaker 3: idea like, okay, wow, there's an interesting thing that he

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Speaker 3: went through as a man and as a father and

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Speaker 3: obviously as a husband. Yeah, and that took me on

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Speaker 3: this journey.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've got goose from it because I mean,

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Speaker 1: my kids are grown up now. But when my daughter

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Speaker 1: was about five, we had exactly this happened. The whole

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Speaker 1: family was together. She went and hid away in a

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Speaker 1: cupboard somewhere in a corner of the house, and the

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Speaker 1: whole family was out there looking and searching. And that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I remember that desperate fear like it was yesterday.

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Speaker 1: And I also remember when we did finally found her,

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Speaker 1: which Jenna was about an hour later, that she put

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Speaker 1: us through. But it was a mixture. Some people were

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Speaker 1: furious with her. Some people, I was just crying with

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Speaker 1: relief that we'd found her. But it was such an

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Speaker 1: emotional moment that was and the emotions that came out

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Speaker 1: of everybody were also varied. I remember that like it

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Speaker 1: was yesterday, now it's it's It's also very particular in

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Speaker 1: its setting, and before we talk about the character that

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Speaker 1: a Keenana that you're going to be playing, just tell

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Speaker 1: us about where you've set this film and the particular

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Speaker 1: narrative that you particularly crafted around the location, because I

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Speaker 1: know that's a very important part of the storytelling for you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just to let everyone know, the film is about

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Speaker 3: this father whose son goes missing, and it's not about

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Speaker 3: him searching for his son, but it's about him searching

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Speaker 3: for himself and his father and what it is that

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Speaker 3: his father gave him and we we you know, the

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Speaker 3: film then delves into, yes, intergenerational trauma, but I was

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Speaker 3: more interested in intergenerational healing, forgiveness and enjoy what is

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Speaker 3: like we get so many things from our fathers in

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Speaker 3: a mongst, you know, some of the some of the

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Speaker 3: more weighty things, and that was something I really really

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Speaker 3: wanted to explore, And what does that conversation look like

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Speaker 3: amongst us and you know, men and fathers and uncles

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Speaker 3: and but others trying to do better but not having

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Speaker 3: the language, you know, so clumsily stumbling through this. But

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Speaker 3: you know it was in the trine that I was

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Speaker 3: always searching for the humanity inside the sky.

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Speaker 2: And also just to add to that, so, I mean,

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Speaker 2: we know that the Cape Flats comes with this history

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Speaker 2: of you know, history of violence and all of that.

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Speaker 2: But it was important, I think, to tell the story

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Speaker 2: from because it's set in uttery yep. And I mean

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Speaker 2: the sort of vast amount of men that are in

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Speaker 2: those areas and similarly to it that I would say,

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Speaker 2: not suffer but love. This day to day life was

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Speaker 2: like just not being free, not being open, not being

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Speaker 2: able to express you know. So I think also the

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Speaker 2: setting was very important for the specific story. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And also you know, there are many faces to the

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Speaker 3: Cape Flats and I think have been unfairly portrayed in

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Speaker 3: cinema and culture and media, you know. And what was

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Speaker 3: important to us because we know the places intimately, we

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Speaker 3: know the place, the people we wanted to like look

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Speaker 3: at it from through another lens. The dualities and complexities

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Speaker 3: in the cape flats that I think are not spoken

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Speaker 3: about enough, and you know, it's always spoken about in

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Speaker 3: a single story narrative, and you know, the people, the colors,

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Speaker 3: the textures, and the defiance that lives in those areas

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Speaker 3: is something I think it's you know, worth putting a

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Speaker 3: lens on. And I mean, I hope our foam did

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Speaker 3: that in some way. It was part of our intention

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Speaker 3: without any bias. I think it does.

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Speaker 1: Stephen Brackefeld is writing to say he saw the trailer

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Speaker 1: for the film for the first time last night. He says,

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Speaker 1: it looks incredibly sad, but from what you've said, you're

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Speaker 1: also looking for joy. You're looking for the full full that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about the full gambit of human exposure, emotion,

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Speaker 1: and of men being allowed to experience that and articulate that.

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Speaker 1: And I mean it's such a topical conversation, even outside

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Speaker 1: of a cape down setting, about allowing men to experience

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Speaker 1: and talk about those emotions. And we're talking a little

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Speaker 1: bit about how this film has been received by international audiences,

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Speaker 1: but just for anybody coming in Midway, im Run Humdalay

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Speaker 1: and Keenan Arrison with us in studio. Im Runs, the

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Speaker 1: writer and director of the Heart is a Muscle. Keenan

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Speaker 1: plays the lead role and the movie opens on Circuit

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Speaker 1: next week Friday. What made you choose Keenan or what

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Speaker 1: made you see your character?

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Speaker 3: Because he also supports men, so I knew no, no,

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Speaker 3: you know what, I never We didn't know each other

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Speaker 3: before the film, and I obviously I know his work,

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Speaker 3: but from what was important was meeting him. There was

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Speaker 3: no one else that I didn't mind for this role.

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Speaker 3: I'd never seen him audition. I didn't audition him at all.

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Speaker 3: We just met and I needed to know that we

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Speaker 3: could work together. I want to know who Keenan was

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Speaker 3: as a person. You know, if he could lead this film.

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Speaker 3: He's in every single scene, no pressure, no pressure, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and you know he's it's just absolutely brilliant. Many audiences overseas,

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Speaker 3: especially when we debuted at Berlin Ali, but a few

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Speaker 3: people say if if our section that we played in

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Speaker 3: had a best Actor, the judy told us that they

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Speaker 3: said Keenan would win.

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Speaker 2: That that's a huge I praise.

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Speaker 1: Keenan as a matter of but just are you a

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Speaker 1: dad yourself? You're not.

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Speaker 2: It's been very interesting this entire journey your son, though,

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Speaker 2: I am a son. Yeah, and I'm also an uncle.

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Speaker 2: I am, I would say, a father figure to a

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Speaker 2: lot of my friends' kids. I'm constantly surrounded by kids.

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Speaker 2: So there was a lot to draw from, you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot that I could take from my friends and

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Speaker 2: just watching them being dead, you know, and what that

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Speaker 2: relationship does, especially fathers that with youngest sons. I mean, Jude,

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Speaker 2: the character of Juda is five years old, so a

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Speaker 2: lot of my friends that's sort of the general age.

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Speaker 1: During that life is absolute. Yeah, tell us about your

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Speaker 1: character and your own words.

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Speaker 2: So Ryan, basically, he's just a regular guy who sort

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Speaker 2: of gets thrown out of his comfort zone by this

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Speaker 2: one incident and then makes him unlock a lot, a

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Speaker 2: lot of himself that's been suppressed, that he's tried to hide,

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Speaker 2: that he's not spoken about for yours, even amongst his friends.

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Speaker 2: But he is just trying to be a better dad,

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Speaker 2: a bit of father, a bitter husband, and a bit

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Speaker 2: of man, you know. So I think there's a lot,

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of work within that constructing framework.

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Speaker 3: He's a wonderful actor of the plays very mirror image

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Speaker 3: of Ryan's character. That really unlocks quite a lot of

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Speaker 3: Ryan's past that he's running with and that that they

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Speaker 3: played in was Dean Marae. It was absolutely, just absolutely brilliant. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I was. I was so blessed with every actor in

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Speaker 3: this film.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we were very lucky. I think Imran hit the

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Speaker 2: nail on the head with this casting. Yeah, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: the dynamics between the six of us, it just clicked

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Speaker 2: from day one, and it's very rare that those that

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Speaker 2: kind of energy and synergia happens on a set.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: Amazing. Now, let's talk about shooting on location, because im

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Speaker 1: Run in reading up in preparation for doing this interview

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Speaker 1: without having seen the film, one of the things I

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Speaker 1: came across was the fact that you actually went and

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Speaker 1: had several conversations with gang leaders in areas where you

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Speaker 1: needed to film about how you were going to manage

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Speaker 1: this shoot and keep your crew safe, et cetera. Tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit more about that aspect.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I just have to give a shout

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Speaker 3: out to Brandon Eckart, who was a good friend mine

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Speaker 3: and he helped facilitate quite a lot of you know,

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Speaker 3: those conversations. And for me, from the beginning, what was

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Speaker 3: important that we were engaged with the community, and I

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Speaker 3: went in. We spoke to some of the gang leaders,

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Speaker 3: and no one's ever shot in that specific area because

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Speaker 3: people have been afraid. And I when I went in there,

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Speaker 3: you know, they were quite hesitant because of the stigma

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Speaker 3: and how they've been portrayed, how the communities have been

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Speaker 3: portrayed in media. But then I pitched the phone to them.

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Speaker 3: I showed them visuals and I said, this is what

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Speaker 3: the story is about. This is what we're trying to do.

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Speaker 3: This is how we reorient in the lens on our communities.

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Speaker 3: And they were in they said, we absolutely love this,

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Speaker 3: you know. They said, these are the complexities that they

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Speaker 3: wrestle with and they but they don't know how to

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Speaker 3: word and they said, you got We'll look after you.

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Speaker 3: You can do whatever you want. And then we worked

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Speaker 3: with the community itself. Quite quite a few of the

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Speaker 3: extra are in the film, quite from the community, quite

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Speaker 3: a few of the crew, the support crew, you know,

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Speaker 3: so we allowed we wanted some of the community members

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Speaker 3: who were looking to go into film to come experience

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Speaker 3: what does that look like, what does a film set

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Speaker 3: look like? You know, there was I had there was

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Speaker 3: one moment that there was a guy his name's Marshall,

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Speaker 3: absolutely incredible man, human being. It was just so he

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Speaker 3: was like, you, I want to change my life. I

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Speaker 3: want to work hard. And I was talking to him

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Speaker 3: and I said, look, what were you in prison for?

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Speaker 3: He was in prison for about ten fifteen years, and

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Speaker 3: he said, I was an assassin for the gangs and

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Speaker 3: I was in for multiple murders. And I was just

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Speaker 3: completely astounded, you know the way he like, you know,

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Speaker 3: he said, I really want to do good. You know,

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Speaker 3: it hit me hard. I'm getting close talking about it,

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Speaker 3: you know, so that those experiences really made me feel

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Speaker 3: like there's a great responsibility we have here.

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Speaker 1: You know, how did that make feel you feel? Kenan?

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Speaker 1: Just know I'm now portraying a character, and here we

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Speaker 1: have we've been not just allowed in, but it sounds

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Speaker 1: like invited in and safeguarded in this space. Obviously there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of expectation on how you guys need to

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Speaker 1: deliver on the promise of how you're going to portray us.

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Speaker 1: What did that make the experience like for you?

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Speaker 2: Again, all created to Brendan Eckart like there was a

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Speaker 2: sense of safety whenever we came to this because they

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Speaker 2: knew that we would. There's a phone crew, and I

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Speaker 2: think the doors with their hearts were opened. The doors

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Speaker 2: were opened. They were so free and giving. It made

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Speaker 2: us feel safe, even though like maybe a road or

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Speaker 2: two away from where we were shooting, the gang violence

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Speaker 2: was like con constant, you know, but there was a

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Speaker 2: sense of safety for us. But then also there was

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Speaker 2: a huge responsibility knowing that we're telling the story and

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Speaker 2: we are portraying the people in this community. So I

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Speaker 2: had a responsibility myself and Danny Ross, the other actors

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Speaker 2: redare we can't. We spoke about it and we really

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Speaker 2: we wanted to fly that flag, you know, and was

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Speaker 2: a big thing for us.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about where this film has

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Speaker 1: already been seen before we talk about how local audiences

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Speaker 1: get to get to see it from next week. Because

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Speaker 1: you had your world premiere in Berlin, I think it

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Speaker 1: was last February. It's been shown at festivals in Sydney,

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Speaker 1: in California, Best Film at Silver Scatam I think as well.

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Speaker 1: But I'm particularly interested. I mean, it sounds like such

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Speaker 1: a uniquely kept Tonian story and such a passion project

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Speaker 1: for us as a local audience. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: exciting to see that. But what's it like taking a

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Speaker 1: story like that and presenting it to an international audience

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Speaker 1: and what was the response?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely incredible. You know, at Berlin we won, we won

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Speaker 3: the we won one of the jury prizes at Berlin,

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Speaker 3: completely unexpected. I left Berlin early because we're not going

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Speaker 3: to win anything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh no, I happened to stay a couple of days.

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Speaker 1: You're there to go and see he called.

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Speaker 2: Me the life before He's like, you're not going home, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, and playing around the world and going on to

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Speaker 3: win more awards in Africas was special. But the response

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Speaker 3: around the world, you know, from Sydney to California, like

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Speaker 3: you said, has been you know, everyone connected with the

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Speaker 3: humanity in the story. And and we had quite a

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Speaker 3: few comments saying, oh, I've never seen the Cape Flats

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Speaker 3: in that way before. They were like, oh, that's interesting,

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Speaker 3: you know, and that that really made me feel quite

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Speaker 3: proud that people were seeing that. And exactly because the

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Speaker 3: outside impression of what that what the Cap Flats is,

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Speaker 3: it's very specific, very one dimensional, one dimensional.

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Speaker 2: We've had people come up to us and say, we've

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Speaker 2: been to Cape Notap before, but we've never seen the

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Speaker 2: side of care. Yeah, so it was interesting for them

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Speaker 2: to go, I've been there, but I've not seen this

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Speaker 2: world that you've not that you've not given to us.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest things I think when

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Speaker 2: I realized we were doing were on the right path,

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Speaker 2: a woman came up to us after the after the

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Speaker 2: May after the screening, and she's like, I grew up

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Speaker 2: in World War two and she didn't know what people

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Speaker 2: of color, people of color live on the cape flats,

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Speaker 2: she didn't know the cave flats existed, and she just

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Speaker 2: started crying. And that was such a that was a

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Speaker 2: touching Momentally, I knew that I think we were on

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Speaker 2: the right fl.

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Speaker 1: You've hit something universal and the human experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was another moment. You know, our first community

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Speaker 3: screening in Weinberg, you know, not far from way the

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Speaker 3: form was shot. We had quite a few you know,

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Speaker 3: aunties from the community there and that was the most

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Speaker 3: moving response we had with the film. You know, the

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Speaker 3: one of the Auntie said, I'm going to get my

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Speaker 3: husband to.

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Speaker 1: My next question is how men respond, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've touched her on a conversation that's happening globally about men.

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Speaker 1: And their mental health and how we allow them to

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Speaker 1: express emotion and to feel emotion and even acknowledge that

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Speaker 1: they're going through emotion. Are you getting this kind of

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Speaker 1: response from men as well?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been universal. You know. Ultimately the film is

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Speaker 3: about you know, the sky Ryan, you know, acknowledging that

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Speaker 3: there are memories and inheritance inside of him that he

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Speaker 3: needs to repair and he needs it needs healing because

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Speaker 3: it's affecting people around him. You know, the violence inside

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Speaker 3: of him is now being exposed, you know. And in that,

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Speaker 3: in that understanding, that acknowledgment and then the trying to

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Speaker 3: overcome that I think is really connecting with men out there.

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Speaker 3: But I have to say, yeah, no, no, I'll just

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Speaker 3: have to say women. The response from women, especially to

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Speaker 3: our incredible casts, you know, the fries a Lot and Luxure,

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Speaker 3: Rob and Rousseau. The response on women has also been

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Speaker 3: incredible because inside the film, I always saw the women

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Speaker 3: as not holding space for men. I feel like that's

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Speaker 3: a responsibility for men. It's also like take acknowledge, you know,

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Speaker 3: their responsibility. What the women did was hould a murder

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Speaker 3: of endurance and strength and say you know what, like

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Speaker 3: you know, because you know, we know a lot of

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Speaker 3: the Guina based violence that exists in society and women

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Speaker 3: have to endure this. And what was Yeah, what I

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Speaker 3: enjoyed was seeing how the female actors offered that saying

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Speaker 3: this is how we endure this, and I'd love to

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Speaker 3: be there for you as.

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Speaker 1: You do to work on this year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now keenan opening on Circuit finally in South Africa next Friday,

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Speaker 1: the sixth of March. And I want to really make

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Speaker 1: a point of letting our listeners know why it's so important,

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Speaker 1: not just to say, oh, yeah, I think I must

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Speaker 1: go and see that film and then do that cape

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Speaker 1: dancing and sit back and forget about and maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: go in a few weeks time. Won't you explain to

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Speaker 1: our listeners for those who don't know how the industry works,

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Speaker 1: how important the opening weeks and those first screenings and

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Speaker 1: what it means if people go and support the film

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Speaker 1: as it opens.

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Speaker 2: It is so important. I can't stressity enough. I mean,

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Speaker 2: our industry currently is in a bit of a in

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Speaker 2: a flux state. We're not sure if you're coming or going.

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Speaker 2: So I think this having people get the bombs on seats,

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Speaker 2: having people come out to see the film. It just

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Speaker 2: shows us that there is a future for cinema. There's

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Speaker 2: a future for storytelling like this, but also just going

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Speaker 2: out and buying a po popcorn, a coke and then

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Speaker 2: watching a film. You know, because everybody, everybody is so

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Speaker 2: used to the streaming platform. We can chill a home

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Speaker 2: and you know, just watch it from the safety of

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Speaker 2: our couch. But it is really important, especially this opening week.

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Speaker 2: I think it says a lot. I think it will

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Speaker 2: say a lot about where the industry is heading. And

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Speaker 2: I don't not only our film. I think there are

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Speaker 2: other films of the local South African films that also

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Speaker 2: deserve the same amount of support.

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Speaker 3: We made this film first and foremost for South Africans.

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Speaker 3: You know, the fact that international audiences love it is

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Speaker 3: it's a bonus. Yeah, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: I know you love your wife shots and there's nothing

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Speaker 1: better than I shot on a big screen either. So

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Speaker 1: just to emphasize, please go and support it when it

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Speaker 1: opens on Circuit next Friday, the sixth of March. It's

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Speaker 1: called The Heart is a Muscle. And before we say goodbye,

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Speaker 1: because we must wrap up, a listener asking him Roun

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Speaker 1: whether you're working on another script yet or are you

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Speaker 1: allowing yourself to just bring this baby through the full

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Speaker 1: birth experience before you dive into the next one right now?

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Speaker 3: Wish I could have been every single cinema in this

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Speaker 3: first week to audiences. But yeah, I do have some

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Speaker 3: projects in the pipeline. Unfortunately I can't talk about mostly

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Speaker 3: them right now, but I'm excited to shoot again to them.

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Speaker 3: Are set on the Cape Flats again and offering again.

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Speaker 3: I want like one is an adventure with kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, and Keenan has already been cost.

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Speaker 2: I was about to say every one of them fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now, if you want to go and see Keenan

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Speaker 1: playing the role of Ryan in the movie, The Heart

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Speaker 1: Is a Muscle, booking will be opening from today, I

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Speaker 1: would imagine, on the cinema websites, because it goes live

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Speaker 1: on Circuit next Friday, the sixth of March. So please

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Speaker 1: book your tickets and go and support The Heart is

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Speaker 1: a Muscle. And it's been such a pleasure to have

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Speaker 1: you both with us. Thanks for giving us such a

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Speaker 1: big chunk of your time today. And we really hope

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Speaker 1: that the audiences put bums on seats and support this

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Speaker 1: film and keep it screening for for weeks to come.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely all the best to you, Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us, imrand Humdula and Keenan.

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Speaker 1: Aarrison from the heart is a muscle.