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Speaker 1: Lunch with Pippa Hudson on Cape Talk. Join the conversation.

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Speaker 1: We are heading back to Saint Alena Island on the

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Speaker 1: couch today. Not for a travel related conversation, I know

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Speaker 1: we've had a couple of those over the years, but

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Speaker 1: to speak about a quite remarkable achievement that has been

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Speaker 1: pulled off in the last couple of days by a

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Speaker 1: South African open water swimmer who has for now unofficially

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Speaker 1: completed the first male circumnavigation swimmer around the island. I

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Speaker 1: have to say emphasis on mail because we must give

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Speaker 1: credit to the fact that a woman has done it

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Speaker 1: before him, and I'll tell you about her shortly. But

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Speaker 1: we celebrating today the achievement of Angus McPherson, who is

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Speaker 1: a South African sitting with me in studio as we speak,

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Speaker 1: having just blown home from cint Alena Island, who spent

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Speaker 1: a really grueling twenty hours in the water navigating some

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Speaker 1: of the most remote ocean waters. I mean, when we've

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Speaker 1: spoken about visiting Sint Alena Island, this has been emphasized

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Speaker 1: time and again. It's very far away, and it feels

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Speaker 1: very far away from everywhere, and that is what makes

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Speaker 1: it so specially in some respects. But we're going to

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Speaker 1: hear the story of why he did it, what it's

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Speaker 1: going to take to make it officially recognized, and what

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Speaker 1: he actually went through because it was more than just

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Speaker 1: a physical challenge. I can tell you that much, Angus.

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Speaker 1: I'm amazed you're still on your feet and smiling and talking.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the studio and thanks for coming in so

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Speaker 1: soon after your return.

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Speaker 2: Absolute pleasure. It's nice to be at PIPA and thank

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Speaker 2: you for having me.

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Speaker 1: It's a huge pleasure. And congratulations on the achievement. Forty

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Speaker 1: five kilometers twenty hours. Those numbers don't really do justice

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Speaker 1: to the magnitude of a thirty yea.

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Speaker 2: The time in the water seems too shortened for some reason.

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Speaker 2: You get into a mode of just swimming. But still

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Speaker 2: it does boggle the mind that it's a time eleven

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Speaker 2: o'clock at night people go to sleep, wake up and

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Speaker 2: then do a whole day's work and the sunsets and

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Speaker 2: you'll still be swimming. So it's a long time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what made you do it?

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Speaker 2: Well? I got the opportunity from Howard from Open Water

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Speaker 2: Africa about just after I'd done my English channel, which

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Speaker 2: was last year August. This is in September, and I'm

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Speaker 2: rather spontaneous. And when he said think about it, I said,

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Speaker 2: I'm not thinking about it. I'm doing it. He said,

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Speaker 2: I've got two, actually three slots. Dina will be first,

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Speaker 2: you'll have the opportunity to be the first male second person,

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Speaker 2: and then Ryan Stumbrud I'll talk about him later, will

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Speaker 2: be after me. So I was like some sandwich between

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Speaker 2: two legends of the sport. Yeah, Dina is an inductee

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Speaker 2: for a World Open War Association, so she is. She's

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Speaker 2: actually in the Hall of Fame. And Ryan Stumbrud. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure you've heard of him, of course you have. He

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Speaker 2: is an amazing swimmer and he's actually swimming this evening.

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Speaker 1: Mush okay, so really hot on your heels. So, Dina

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Speaker 1: Leavitta Croatian long distance swim. For those who are not

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Speaker 1: familiar with her, she did the first swim in seventeen

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Speaker 1: hours thirteen minutes. But Angus the first man to pull

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Speaker 1: it off. Now, Angus, before we talk about this one,

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Speaker 1: just tell us about your story with open water swimming itself.

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Speaker 1: How long have you been doing this? What led you

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Speaker 1: to the sport?

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Speaker 2: So people always taken aback. I've done marathon's distance events

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Speaker 2: my entire life, but I only started swimming basically four

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Speaker 2: or five years ago, around the COVID time, and I

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Speaker 2: immediately fell in love with the water. It's my element,

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Speaker 2: It's where I feel peace. I'm hyperactive. I can't be hyperactive.

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Speaker 2: You can't doom scroll and you can just you know,

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Speaker 2: you can get your mind together. I love the water.

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Speaker 1: Getting your mind together is I think half the battle.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as much as we'll talk about the physical

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Speaker 1: challenge of this, it's the mental focus of staying alert,

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Speaker 1: staying focused on your goal for twenty hours. I know

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Speaker 1: how exhausted I am at the end of a two

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Speaker 1: hour radio show of intense focus, and I feel it

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Speaker 1: when I stand in on the three hour shows. That

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Speaker 1: last hour is so hard to keep your focus. That's

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Speaker 1: three hours of work. You've done this for twenty hours.

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Speaker 1: Adding in the physical element as well. Do you do

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Speaker 1: sort of mental preparation training as much as you do physical.

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Speaker 2: So I've got the advantage of age turning fifty nine,

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Speaker 2: and I've gone through a lot in my life, and

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Speaker 2: every challenge that you go through is training for endurance events.

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Speaker 2: So I use it. I use the time to sort

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Speaker 2: of compartmentalize different areas of my life. I do a

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Speaker 2: bit of reflection, I do a little bit of meditation

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Speaker 2: in my case, a lot of prayer, and then I

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Speaker 2: do a lot of planning. So I even had a

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Speaker 2: chance to do a little video of one of my

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Speaker 2: feeds for my grandchildren, for example, So I gave them

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Speaker 2: a little life lesson in the middle of the ocean.

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Speaker 2: So these are the things that just you know, just

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Speaker 2: come into your spirit and just come into you and

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Speaker 2: and so that's what it is. It's wonderful because after

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Speaker 2: a long swim, even after the English channel, it kind

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Speaker 2: of percolates. You don't know what you're learning, but you

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Speaker 2: learn so much due to these hours of solitude and

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Speaker 2: having to reflect.

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Speaker 1: It's such a gift that because it's something that modern

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Speaker 1: life does not allow us a lot of time alone,

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Speaker 1: and some people really struggle with it as a result.

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Speaker 1: Anger is that they find it difficult to be on

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Speaker 1: their own. As you said, they're looking for, you know,

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Speaker 1: where's the other person to bounce thoughts off for Just

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Speaker 1: to sit and be in your own skin in quietness

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Speaker 1: is something that the modern world and technology gives us

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Speaker 1: very little of So I completely get what you're saying

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Speaker 1: about what that allows you to explore within yourself. But

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the physical as well. Now, okay, to

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Speaker 1: give us a comparison, English Channel, how long did that

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Speaker 1: swim take?

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Speaker 2: So that English Channel I had quite rough. I had

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Speaker 2: poor conditions. I tend to attract poor conditions. Tell us, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so that took me twelve hours, and I think it

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Speaker 2: was a couple of minutes, twelve minutes, twelve hours and

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Speaker 2: twelve minutes. And this swim obviously took eight hours longer

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Speaker 2: than that, So it would be equivalent to getting to

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Speaker 2: the other side, turning around in France and swimming sort

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Speaker 2: of two thirds.

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Speaker 1: Back to distance and time. Okay, So I mean, okay,

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Speaker 1: so that should give you, I think, a mental sense

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Speaker 1: of the durance in terms of distance and time. What

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Speaker 1: about water temperature? I mean English Channel everybody knows is

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Speaker 1: incredibly cold water. Is it like that at Sintelna Cintina's tropical?

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Speaker 2: It's the water is embracing, it is very salty, and

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Speaker 2: I was concerned of overheating because we in Cape Town

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Speaker 2: are used to cold waters. So yeah, as again, you know,

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Speaker 2: once got you swim get into the water and allow

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Speaker 2: the water to embrace you. You've got to it's almost

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Speaker 2: like a love affair. You've got to accept what the partner,

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Speaker 2: in this case, the sea is giving to you. So

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Speaker 2: she gave me warm water, salty water, and the beginning

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Speaker 2: I had a little bit of nasal. I thought, I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to be able to do this. I blocked

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Speaker 2: that from a mine and said she'll look off me,

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Speaker 2: and it did.

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Speaker 1: That's what happened for anybody coming in midway to this

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Speaker 1: conversation our guest in studio with US open water swimmer

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Speaker 1: Angus McPherson, who just a couple of days ago became

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Speaker 1: the first man ever to swim the circumnavigation of Saint

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Speaker 1: Alina Island. Now, before we talk about the challenges on

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Speaker 1: route and the encounters on route that we're talking about

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Speaker 1: this as for now an unofficial achievement. What has to

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Speaker 1: happen to make it officially recognized?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So WAWSER, which is the World Open Water Swimming Association,

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Speaker 2: That should take only another week or so it's ratified.

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Speaker 2: It's very very strict. There's an observer who documents everything.

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Speaker 2: Howard James, and yeah, we should have that that'll go

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Speaker 2: fairly quickly with regards to the Guinness Book a record,

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Speaker 2: thank you, I've forgot me for a second, and that

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Speaker 2: takes up to three months.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: They're quite particularly about certain things you need to do,

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Speaker 2: and of course they weren't there, so there are third parties,

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Speaker 2: so it's just amount of time it will happen.

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Speaker 1: It will okay. So you obviously knew what those requirements where.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the things that Guinness requires to

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Speaker 1: be in place for.

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Speaker 2: It to be real? Very so, very strict documentation. In

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Speaker 2: this case, it's flawless. Howard James is an absolute perfection,

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Speaker 2: so he's got it down. He gives exactly what feeds

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Speaker 2: you've taken, et cetera, and he took satellite images point

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Speaker 2: by point by point. So they obviously want to see

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Speaker 2: that there's no fraud happening because unfortunately, in open water

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Speaker 2: swimming there have been times when people have met you, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: and so they want to make sure that everything's kept nice.

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Speaker 2: And we want to know when we read something that

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Speaker 2: it's actually the truth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That staggers me that somebody would try and fraudulently

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Speaker 1: post a record.

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Speaker 2: For what I think it's an ego maybe, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, your ego knows that you didn't actually earn that accolade,

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Speaker 1: so I can't people do Okay, well, Thingers did not

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Speaker 1: do that, and it's perfectly, meticulously documented that he swam

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Speaker 1: every one of those forty eight kilometers. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the swim, because I understand there were a couple of

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Speaker 1: encounters along the way, and including a big fishy that

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Speaker 1: came along for some of the right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we don't talk. We talk about the men

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Speaker 2: in suits. We don't refer to it as as a shark.

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Speaker 2: But so the swim started, as I said, eleven o'clock.

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Speaker 2: You swam the first seven and a half hours through

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Speaker 2: the night. My amazing wife is sitting in the studio

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Speaker 2: with me, Karen. She's always on all these swims with us,

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Speaker 2: and she was on the boat and the weather was

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Speaker 2: quite choppy and it started to rain. I'm swimming, and

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Speaker 2: I'm concerned for them because I'm as wet as you

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Speaker 2: can get, and they are busy getting wet there and

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Speaker 2: I'm concerned about them, etc. She left the boat at

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Speaker 2: about just before dawn, and she went from the other mothership,

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Speaker 2: so to speak. There's two boats which we're following us.

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Speaker 2: And then I don't know who's more happy to see

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Speaker 2: the light of dawn, whether it's me or the observers

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Speaker 2: and my supporters. But you get to the light and

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Speaker 2: then it's a new day, and then everything, the sun

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Speaker 2: starts to rise, etc. And you've got more and new energy.

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Speaker 2: You've already got seven hours in this case, thirteen hours

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Speaker 2: to go, and then you start to eat towards the

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Speaker 2: next step. Okay, the next step was going. I was

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Speaker 2: thinking to myself, let's get to ten hours or twelve hours,

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Speaker 2: and now I'll get into new territory, in other words,

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Speaker 2: an area that I've never gone into before in terms

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Speaker 2: of time. And yeah, then my shoulders started to give

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Speaker 2: me a bit of issues. It did on the English Channel.

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Speaker 2: The shoulders worked very hard over their lives, and so

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Speaker 2: it started to and that has just starts to swim

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Speaker 2: with one arm and yet do all these things. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: I took some remedies, et cetera. And slowly but surely

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Speaker 2: I just ate away out the hours. Then you want

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Speaker 2: to know, but the fish I do, so it was

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Speaker 2: a nice distraction. Put it that way. I looked down

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Speaker 2: and the waters are magnifous, and it's so crystal clear.

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Speaker 2: You can see more clearly than you can almost see

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Speaker 2: on land. You can see absolutely everything. I looked for

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Speaker 2: far down. It was a very deep area, and this

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Speaker 2: is where they hang around. And I saw what I

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Speaker 2: thought was a turtle in the distance. And the cardinal

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Speaker 2: rule is not to investigate odd things too much. Ignorance

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Speaker 2: is bliss exactly. And so I looked down towards this

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Speaker 2: thing and I thought, that's a turtle. It's not a turtle,

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Speaker 2: and it's not a turtle. Slowly came up towards me,

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Speaker 2: and then I saw it was. It was a shark,

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Speaker 2: and it was a gillapolis and yeah, it came past

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Speaker 2: and round, and I swam very close to the boat.

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Speaker 2: They were complaining, so I'm close to the boat. Well,

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Speaker 2: I can tell you, Papa, that from that moment was

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Speaker 2: four hours out, sixteen hours in. I was so close

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Speaker 2: to that boat. I'm telling you it was frightening.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, had it come close to you with

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Speaker 1: its mouth open, leering in your direction, I mean, do

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Speaker 1: you even allow yourself to think about what would you do?

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Speaker 1: Would you leap into the boat and sacrifice all the

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Speaker 1: hours of swimming behind you? Would you stay and give

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Speaker 1: it a chance.

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Speaker 2: So, Papa, I'd like to say it's mouth. It was open,

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Speaker 2: but it wasn't open. But you don't investigate it too much.

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Speaker 2: They are curious by nature and clear waters. It's fairly safe.

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Speaker 2: We're not their prey. Yeah you don't feel that way

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Speaker 2: though at the moment, but we're not their prey. So

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Speaker 2: I have come to face the only in life I

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Speaker 2: had past tense, which was sharks. I share the ocean

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Speaker 2: with them now and as such they've come to say

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Speaker 2: hi and to say you're welcome.

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Speaker 1: It is fascinating how those encounters change the way you

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Speaker 1: think about it, because I mean, I was damaged by

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Speaker 1: seeing jaws at a very young age and had that

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Speaker 1: phobia for many, many years. And the first time, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I started surfing a couple of years ago for

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Speaker 1: something that was always in my mind, but the first

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Speaker 1: time I had an actual shark encounter, when a fellow

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Speaker 1: surfer said to me, it's underneath your boat. My instinctive

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Speaker 1: reaction was not terror, get out the water, It was

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Speaker 1: where where I want to see it exactly, And in

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Speaker 1: that moment I felt something mentally sort of shift. So

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Speaker 1: I guess what you're saying, it's amazing. Curiosity works both ways.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like it's a privilege to come up and

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Speaker 2: close to something like an apex predator like that. It's

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Speaker 2: very beautiful.

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Speaker 1: And as you said, you take that risk. When you

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Speaker 1: make the decision to go into the water, you are

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Speaker 1: entering their territory. You have to accept that risk, whether

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Speaker 1: you're swimming forty eight k's or going for a paddle.

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Speaker 1: Angus McPherson with us the first man to swim around

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Speaker 1: Saint Alina Island forty eight kilometers, completed in about twenty

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Speaker 1: hours this past week. It was it Saturday. What was

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Speaker 1: the actual day was exactly.

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Speaker 2: A weekday, weekday, exactly a week today.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and Angus, I mean you were saying to me

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Speaker 1: before we came on, how wonderful your experience of Sintelena

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Speaker 1: itself had been. And of the people there, what did

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Speaker 1: they make of this attempt. Did they're like, who's this

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Speaker 1: crazy guy and what's he doing here? Or were they

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Speaker 1: very supportive and encouraging.

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Speaker 2: Of what you They are incredibly supportive. They are incredibly supportive.

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Speaker 2: It's quite amazing that they not swim as per se,

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Speaker 2: they don't go into the water. They've removed one of

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Speaker 2: their tennis courts and the replace of the pool because

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Speaker 2: they were people were drowning and they wanted people to

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Speaker 2: start to learn to swim. So incredibly supportive. They were

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Speaker 2: so curious and couldn't fathom the fact that we would

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Speaker 2: be able to do it. And the fact that there's

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Speaker 2: now two of us who have gone around it's a

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Speaker 2: lot of Well, I've spoken to the swimming community there.

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Speaker 2: It looks like they want to start to swim now

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Speaker 2: open water. We seem to have broken the fear, the

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Speaker 2: myth that something was impossible has now become possible for them.

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Speaker 1: And that, I know is one of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: any extreme sportsperson of any kind does this, to show

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Speaker 1: that it can be done and open that door for

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Speaker 1: the pioneer mind you yeah, yeah, So, I mean you

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Speaker 1: spoke at the beginning about the mental journey you go

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Speaker 1: through and how you always learn something from a swim,

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Speaker 1: even if you don't recognize it immediately. You've had a

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Speaker 1: week to sort of brew on this one. What has

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Speaker 1: surface for you when you look back now with a

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Speaker 1: couple of days distance from the achievement. Is there anything

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Speaker 1: that you're already going. I'm looking at something differently. I've

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Speaker 1: learned this about myself. Or is that going to take

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Speaker 1: some more time? Do you think I.

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Speaker 2: Think it's going to take some more time, Papa. My

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Speaker 2: next one will be between the islands of Ireland and

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Speaker 2: Scotland's going to sea. That's going to be cold care.

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Speaker 2: But I'm very very very interested in and swims and

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Speaker 2: I've got some things up my sleeve.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's very cryptic.

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Speaker 2: Come on, it's very cryptic because you've got to find

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Speaker 2: the spots. You've got to get the approval to be

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Speaker 2: able to do it. So there's there's some stuff brewing.

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Speaker 2: I always have like vague pictures and then there's slowly

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Speaker 2: I can see the picture comes into focus. So this

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Speaker 2: will this will come into focus probably in the next

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Speaker 2: three or four weeks.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so watch the space for more.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: A few people asking very practical questions. Firstly, wet suit,

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Speaker 1: no wetsuit.

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Speaker 2: Skins, just just so your larger cap, your goggles, your speeder, that's.

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Speaker 1: It, cap, goggles and speed on. And you wouldn't want

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Speaker 1: a wet suit by the sound of what you've described

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Speaker 1: of the water temperature. Yeah, okay, cap goggles and speedo

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Speaker 1: and then somebody asking you mentioned feeds, what do you

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Speaker 1: actually do and how much and when? And how do

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Speaker 1: you manage nutrition and hydration on.

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Speaker 2: That's an excellent question. So feeds generally go carbohydrates every

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Speaker 2: half an hour for three feeds, and then the fourth

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Speaker 2: feed would generally be protein feed and then you repeat

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Speaker 2: that for forty feeds. In my case, and in between

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Speaker 2: my wife Karen would then feed me a little bit

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Speaker 2: of banana, a little bit of pear peaches. Some baby

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Speaker 2: food works incredibly well. But purity, Yeah, takes you back

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Speaker 2: to your childhood when I used to steal from my

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Speaker 2: siblings and yeah, so those are the kind of things.

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Speaker 2: I was naughty. I had a red bull halfway to celebrate. Okay,

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Speaker 2: naughty but nice And yeah, you eat like a horse

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Speaker 2: when you get out, of course.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what was the first thing you wanted to

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Speaker 1: eat when you got out?

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Speaker 2: Well, you can't eat what you can eat on the

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Speaker 2: island if the food is sort of limited to a degree,

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Speaker 2: nice but limited. So what I could have eaten what

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Speaker 2: I did eat was totally different. Pork is great there.

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Speaker 2: So they had pork and that's that, and the other

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Speaker 2: side a big meal.

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Speaker 1: Okay, nice Angus McPherson is the open water swimmer. We've

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Speaker 1: got in for it just a minute or two more.

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Speaker 1: So if you have any further questions around the logistics

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Speaker 1: of the swim, you're very welcome to send a what'sapp

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Speaker 1: to seven to five six seven one five six seven?

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Speaker 1: Besides the shark, did you see other wildlife? Were there

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Speaker 1: any turtles, fish, dolphins, anything else like that?

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Speaker 2: Out with you? It is teeming with wildlife. It is

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Speaker 2: absolutely team. There is not a space where there not

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Speaker 2: shoals of fish. I saw a menta ray, absolutely glorious.

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Speaker 2: The day after, not the day after, the extra day

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Speaker 2: that we had to spin on the island due to

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Speaker 2: the delay in in the e F my wife and

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Speaker 2: I were able to be go and we swam with

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Speaker 2: a whale shark, massive beautiful whale shark. It is Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the listeners, you can definitely put it on your bucket list.

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Speaker 2: If you can get out there, you will not be sorry.

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Speaker 1: You The second person I've heard use the term bucket

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Speaker 1: list snorkeling experience, as the first person said to me

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Speaker 1: one of the best snorking.

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Speaker 2: Bikings biker had running hiking, So anything to do with outdoor.

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Speaker 2: It's the best.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, final question, you've kind of answered it already,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, obviously you've achieved the swim you set

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Speaker 1: out to swim, But would you go back to Saint Alina,

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Speaker 1: because from what you've said describing the environment and the people,

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Speaker 1: it's obviously kept in a little corner of your heart.

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Speaker 2: Totally, Papa, I am I'm led by God, so I'm

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Speaker 2: led by the Lord. So I'm hoping that I'm going

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Speaker 2: to go back there just for more of an outreach

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Speaker 2: to the churches there. But it is one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: on my bucket list to go back there. I've have

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Speaker 2: made promises, but I'm pretty sure that we will end.

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Speaker 1: Up there again and maybe just take it a little

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Speaker 1: bit easier this time.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to be able to go across on

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Speaker 2: the plane land, not had this big knot in my

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Speaker 2: stomach and just enjoy because we are swim only happened

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Speaker 2: ten days after we had arrived, And for those ten days,

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Speaker 2: I can tell you now, I'm not an anxious person,

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Speaker 2: but the anxiety came to you. I don't know what

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Speaker 2: a panic attack feels like, but it felt that those

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Speaker 2: panic attacks were happening, and then as soon as you've swum,

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Speaker 2: you're free as a bird and you can just enjoy.

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Speaker 1: You've done such a wonderful job of taking us into

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Speaker 1: the water with you today. Angus. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for the story, but also congratulations on the extraordinary achievement.

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Speaker 1: And I hope you get to put your feet up

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Speaker 1: for a little bit and relax now that you're back

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Speaker 1: on home soil. Thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 1: in the studio today.

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Speaker 2: It's an absolute pleasure. Thank you again for having me.

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Speaker 1: Angus McPherson, first man ever to swim with the circum

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Speaker 1: navigation navig circumnavigation. Let's try that again of Cintallina Island