1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Now we turn our attention into a slightly different direction. 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: So very recently there's a brand new podcast on the 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: scene and I've been listening to it. It's called The 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: Odds in Our Favor. I won't tell you why I've 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: been listening to it. You can go find out yourself, 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: go and google it. It's beautiful. It's a really, really 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: great series. The series basically highlights South Africans who have 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: stopped waiting for government to fix things and I instead 9 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: stepping in and doing that work themselves. And as I've 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: been going through because actually I'm the host of the podcast, guys, 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: so as I've been talking to people and interviewing people, 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: what's really really struck me is how, you know, a 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: lot of these stories aren't about big, flashy interventions. They're 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: just really about very real, very practical solutions to everyday 15 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: barriers for South Africans. And you know, for our youth, 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: they already have such a mountain to climb that I 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: was so excited to discover and learn more about the 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: story of Phoenix because it is all about access to 19 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: higher education in South Africa and we know that it's 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 1: still deeply unequal, and it's not because of lack of talent. 21 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: It really is because of lack of funding, access and opportunities, 22 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: and Phoenix is one of those organizations that's trying to 23 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: change that. I want to bring in Leanna Debiera, A 24 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: very good morning to you, Leana. I had such a 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: great conversation with you. I thought when I came on 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: to cave Talk today I have to take this opportunity 27 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: just to share a little bit more and a little 28 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: bit wider as well. For someone who's hearing about Phoenix 29 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: for the first time this morning, tell us very quickly 30 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: about how it actually works and how it connects who 31 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: to who. 32 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've got two organizations. A Phoenix I started 33 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: as a post Seasmas for organization that was really about 34 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 2: connecting people that money in South Africa or has money 35 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: in South Africa with students who are struggling to find 36 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 2: full funding for their to share education. It's started out 37 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 2: as a cloud funding platform and has developed into both 38 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: clouds funding and versary management. 39 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: But then, as you were doing this work, obviously these 40 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: are complex issues and wicked problems, as we say, not 41 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: easy easy to solve. As you were doing this work 42 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: of helping to give youth access, you then also realized 43 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: a few things and then you created together with the 44 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: team of Funda and then Black Bully and tell us 45 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: about how that fits into each other. 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 2: So is the second organization that I work together. Phoenix 47 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: is the parent of Wafunda, and Wafunda is focused on 48 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: exactly as you said, two projects. The one is Black Bullan, 49 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 2: which is a financial literacy platform really focused on youth 50 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: specific financial education. Young people don't don't have any opportunity 51 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: to learn about financial education in school, so we are 52 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 2: trying to make sure that that age between eighteen and 53 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: twenty four up to twenty, you know, late twenties, when 54 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: you get your first job, maybe your first car. What 55 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: are the putforth, what auth of opportunities from a financial 56 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: literacy perspective. And I our other very very big product 57 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 2: is based on the work of Phoenix. The bursary work 58 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: is an income share agreement, which is an ethical loan 59 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: where we are trying to look at how can we 60 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 2: solve this problem of debt for students at university in 61 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: a way that's really sustainable and looking at a long 62 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: term solution so that we can fill the gaps because 63 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: there are still very many many of those. 64 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: Now that income share agreement model is so unique. I 65 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: thought it was very smart. Can you just share with 66 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: us very quickly about how that model is so so 67 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: different and actually can unlock opportunity. 68 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: So an income share agreement is not something new, you 69 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: get it all over the world. It's based on the 70 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 2: concept that I pay now, I pay for you, you study, 71 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: and then when you earn in the future, you give 72 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: me a percentage of your income back. So it's not 73 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 2: a traditional loan. It doesn't work on compound interest or 74 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: collateral authurety. It's really based on I says the risk 75 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 2: for you to study, and then I'm saying that if 76 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: you have this degree, I know you will be successful 77 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 2: and earnest it in amount, So I'm almost taking an 78 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: investment in your future. And then when you earnest in 79 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: the amount, you give me five, porteen or fifteen percent 80 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: of that money back to cover the cost of me 81 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: paying for you. And then I can use that money 82 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: to fund the next student. 83 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,119 Speaker 1: And how long have you guys been implementing this income 84 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: share agreement model, Leanna? 85 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: We tested it. We run a three year pilot in 86 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four. We wanted to 87 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: see if the sort of African market has appetite for it, 88 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: with students understand it, with institutions to be open to 89 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: us offer it, would we be able to raise money 90 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: to offer something like this, and we tested to seven 91 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: hundred students about forty five million Rand in student learns 92 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: and then based on that, we've just finalized a new 93 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: fund that we've raised and at the end of April, 94 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 2: we're launching our new eyes A with five public universities 95 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 2: and we're hoping to fund four thousand students specifically with 96 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: historical debt. Students in their final year that can't graduate 97 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: because of that debt. We're going to try and remove 98 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: their debt, get it into the workforce, and when they're 99 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 2: succeed they're going to pay that money back and we 100 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: can continue to have more students. 101 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think people actually understand how big 102 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: that kind of historical debt actually is and what kind 103 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: of IMPACTE can actually have an unlocking potential for South Africa. 104 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: I think because there's all these people walking around and 105 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: they actually just can't practice what they studied because of 106 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: this historical debt. 107 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 2: It's a massive problem. So let me just put that 108 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: in perspective most institutions don't let you graduate if you 109 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 2: have historical debts, so you can finish your final exams, 110 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: but they won't give you your final paperwork. That is 111 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: very complex for people that are in very specific degree type. 112 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: So if you, for example, on the STEM field, you 113 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 2: have to register at the Council, so the Health Professional 114 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: Council of South Africa in order to work as occupational 115 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: therapist for example, if you don't have your degree in hands, 116 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: you can't register and then you can't work as an 117 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 2: occupational therapist. Also at the end of your education journey, 118 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 2: so it's very rare for you to now get a 119 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 2: virtual scholarship. So your options are loans and many many 120 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 2: students don't qualify for loans. My data is a little 121 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 2: bit out of date, about a year out of date 122 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: because we're waiting for the new numbers. But last year 123 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 2: historical debts for final year students was about one hundred 124 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 2: and fifty six thousand students couldn't graduate. Because of this date, 125 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 2: the total number of student debts is nineteen billion round 126 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 2: across a public intitutions. So it's a massive problem and 127 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 2: that number is growing every year. So we're getting very 128 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: very concerned because students aren't moving through and that's a 129 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: big problem at the end of their academic career or 130 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: academic journey. But they're now not able to access that 131 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: skill the line job, but the cost of training them 132 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 2: is completed. So we really are trying to solve that problem. 133 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: And I think the institutions, I mean, how have they 134 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: received this work, in particular with the income shear agreements, 135 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: because I think not a lot of us understand how 136 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: much of this debt the institutions are sitting with, and 137 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: so we see the protests on campuses, and you know, 138 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: unfortunately it comes to bear at the university's door or 139 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: or the tertiary institution's door, but sometimes they are also 140 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: stuck between a rock and a hard place when you 141 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: think about this kind of historical debt that's sitting on 142 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: their books as well. 143 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: Totally, I think the institutions are in a very difficult position, 144 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: and I know many institutions are trying really hard to 145 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 2: solve for this problem in different ways. There are different 146 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: models and the institutions. Due to free education that was 147 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: announced as years ago, the institutions are redirecting funding or 148 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: money is going NA to first year instead of postgraduate 149 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 2: students or research or certain professor, this academic staff, things 150 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: like that. So the money is going to institutions, but 151 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 2: it's been redirected in a way, and that has a 152 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: big snowball effect, and that's part of the reason why 153 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: the debt's growing. We also have a situation where miss 154 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: US as a cap on certain costs, but their actual 155 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 2: total accommodation or tuition costs is more than what miss 156 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 2: was SUS paying. So that's why you often have a 157 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: student that's been all, you know, go through the three 158 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: or four years, and then yet towards the end they've 159 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: hit the cap, and then they're sitting on that debt. 160 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: And some institutions stop them for students from studying, and 161 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: some can roll them over into the next year, but 162 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: then they get to graduation and I aren't able to graduate. 163 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: I'm not blamed institutions. I think they're really struggling to 164 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 2: have limited resources and there's a growing number of students 165 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: that qualify to go to high school, learners that qualify 166 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: to go to university. There isn't enough money in the pot. 167 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: So I our hope is to add money to that 168 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: part and to find a way to revolve it. So 169 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: it's not just free funding for students, but saying if 170 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: you succeed, you can be part of the solution to 171 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: play it forward and we can use that money for 172 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 2: the next student. Maybe you're a little sister, your little brother. 173 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: So we're trying to look at a way that we 174 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: can bold long term sustainability but solving it immediate need. 175 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: Right now, we're. 176 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: Talking to social entrepreneur Leana Debier. We're talking about Phoenix. 177 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: You can go and find out all about this. Go 178 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: and check out the odds in our favor. There's a 179 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: beautiful podcast where we chat to her about it. I 180 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: have some questions here from our audience. Leana tion wants 181 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: to know how many years do you take a percentage 182 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: from their salary for that loan. 183 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: It's a good question and an important one. It's highly 184 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 2: dependent on how much debt you have and what degree 185 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 2: you're studying, so our job is to make sure that 186 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: you can afford the debt that you take on. I 187 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 2: want to say that the product is really ethical, and 188 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: how we make it ethical is if you earn the 189 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 2: low seven thousand round a month, you don't pay anything back. 190 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 2: You only start paying back or giving us a percentage 191 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 2: of your income once you earn above seven thousand round 192 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 2: and that was really really important. We want to make 193 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 2: sure that someone can afford to live as well. And 194 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 2: then the percentage will never be more than twelve percent 195 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: of your monthly income, but it can go as low 196 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: as six percent. And then the contract on average is 197 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: about six years, but it might be less or more 198 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 2: depending on a total debt is the us by the 199 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 2: time we take you on. 200 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: So it really is about the situation that that particular 201 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: learner and the debt that they have, and also obviously 202 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: where they their potential to earn, you know, because obviously 203 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: some people can come out and start earning very well 204 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 1: depending on their qualification, but others they aren't. Just opportunities available. 205 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, we look at what's happening in the job markets. 206 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 2: Unfortunately or fortunately, we have to ensure that we're training 207 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: for the future of work, and part of this work 208 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: is finding those trends and patterns and saying, Okay, these 209 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: students has the opportunity in the future, so let's make 210 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 2: sure that they are able to clear debt and move 211 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: into the world of work. As these strengths become more 212 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: more clear to us, will hopefully be able to influence 213 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 2: how student studies studies and where they study. But your 214 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: upward mobility, and what I mean with that is how 215 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 2: much you earn and are quickly that earning is growing. 216 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 2: Is really important to make sure that we cover the 217 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: risks that we take by funding you. But I also 218 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 2: just want to say the idea of an eye they 219 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: as a community based fund, so we know there will 220 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 2: be graduates that a lot of money and other graduates 221 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 2: that earn lower amounts of salary to balance each other out, 222 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 2: so the high and discover the low earners and repayments 223 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: to an extent. So we really look at it as 224 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: a community fund where we try and help us many 225 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 2: diverse degree sides, but ultimately get students into work. 226 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: I think it's just just brilliant and I'm wishing you 227 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: oh much much much success for someone who's listening. Someone's 228 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: listening right now and maybe they want to help. How 229 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: can they get involved? 230 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: Sure, they can go to often dot com, so waf 231 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: you nda wafunda dot com. We've got our email addresses there. 232 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: They welcome to send us an email if they either. 233 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: Student looking for funding will open up applications by the 234 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 2: end of the month, so keep up, you know, look 235 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 2: out for that. And if you are a corporate they 236 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 2: want to employ, university, they want to give us money, 237 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: or any other person that wants to get involved, go 238 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 2: to often dot com, send us an email and we'll 239 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 2: get back to you. 240 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: And just on those applications again for any students might 241 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: be listening. Those applications open you said at the end 242 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: of April, and do they access that via your Phoenix 243 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: or what wunder well from that, So. 244 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 2: To be working with five universities ukvid in up, Salenbosh, 245 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 2: that's UC team. I know there's more need than that, 246 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 2: but that's where we're starting. We're rolling out of those 247 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 2: five universities. You have to be a final year student 248 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 2: or a student that was supposed to graduate last year 249 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: but we weren't able to because of that date. Any 250 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 2: degree type you welcome to look at it and apply. 251 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: Fantastic Leana, thank you so much for chatting to us 252 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: this morning on Cape Talk. Can we wish you a 253 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: wonderful day? 254 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 2: Thank you, sir Ja. 255 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: That's social entrepreneur Leana Debier talking about Phoenix and Wafunda. 256 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: Go and check them out. Also, go and check out 257 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: that podcast The Odds in our favor. It's really, really 258 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: such a wonderful approach and model to trying to solve 259 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: what is just another wicked problem in South Africa. And 260 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: we really salute all the South Africans who are rolling 261 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: their sleeves up and just getting involved. I should do more, 262 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: We should all do more. It is thirty minutes after 263 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: ten o'clock now.