WEBVTT - Update Judge President Selby Mbenenge court 

0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.720
<v Speaker 1>Right, let's get then to that matter. This has been

0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.160
<v Speaker 1>running for quite a while now. It is the Judicial

0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:11.959
<v Speaker 1>Conduct Tribunal sitting in Santon. A sexual harassment complaint has

0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:16.960
<v Speaker 1>been laid against Eastern Cape Judge President Selby Benenge and

0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:22.320
<v Speaker 1>the plaintive is High Court Secretary and swam Mengo testifying today,

0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.440
<v Speaker 1>research associated at Fitzsuniversity and someone who comments regularly on

0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:29.800
<v Speaker 1>this station, on the shown indeed throughout the media on

0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:35.800
<v Speaker 1>issues of sexual violence and related questions. Lisa Vetten was

0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.879
<v Speaker 1>testifying today and from what I could see just glancing

0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.680
<v Speaker 1>up from time to time when it was on the television.

0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:47.120
<v Speaker 1>Subject now to cross examiner examination by the Judge President's Council. Right,

0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:51.360
<v Speaker 1>let's get Zorlega, gord Ah. She's been reporting regularly throughout

0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.639
<v Speaker 1>the day for an update on where we stand as

0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.960
<v Speaker 1>the day closes, zor Lega, what happened in the afternoon

0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.360
<v Speaker 1>or pick it up from wherever you think we need

0:00:59.400 --> 0:00:59.640
<v Speaker 1>to know.

0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.640
<v Speaker 2>Good afternoon, John, and good afternoon to the listeners. You'll

0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:10.080
<v Speaker 2>remember that power dynamics and the gender dynamics as well

0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.759
<v Speaker 2>in the workplace were quite a recurring theme when AMTI

0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.119
<v Speaker 2>summing or the complainant in the matter. The High Court

0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Secretary that's accused, Eathan Kape, Judge Presidents of sexual harassment,

0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.640
<v Speaker 2>laid her complaint and gave her evidence in chief in

0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.680
<v Speaker 2>January this year, and so that is the basis upon

0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.160
<v Speaker 2>which Lisa Vettan has been testified before the Judicial Conduct

0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Tribunal that's tasked with investigating the claims that have been

0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:36.960
<v Speaker 2>made by menem And so as the afternoon wrapped up,

0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:41.560
<v Speaker 2>we saw the Council for Judge President Sabin Benenger really

0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:46.600
<v Speaker 2>pressing Lisa Vettan on the kind of witness expert witness

0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.880
<v Speaker 2>that she is given the fact that she has written

0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:54.200
<v Speaker 2>quite extensively on this topic of sexual harassment, particularly the

0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:58.200
<v Speaker 2>gender dynamics as well as well as the workplace, and

0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:03.960
<v Speaker 2>so Advocate Moses Kakane really saying that her evidence was

0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:08.560
<v Speaker 2>deficient in that she only looked at the evidence that

0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.720
<v Speaker 2>was provided by the complainant and didn't look at the

0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.639
<v Speaker 2>evidence that was given or the submissions that have been

0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.880
<v Speaker 2>made by the Judge President himself. Of course, we know

0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.280
<v Speaker 2>John that this is a matter that is going to

0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.960
<v Speaker 2>be sitting. All this hearing in particular will be sitting

0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.680
<v Speaker 2>until the eleventh of July, and so we expect more

0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:32.919
<v Speaker 2>people to come forward, particularly from the respondent side, the

0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.440
<v Speaker 2>witnesses that they will be presenting, as well as the

0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Judge President himself, to really give evidence and to counter

0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.120
<v Speaker 2>the claims that have been made by Lisa Vettan and

0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.400
<v Speaker 2>the other expert witnesses and other witnesses that have been

0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:52.200
<v Speaker 2>presented by advocates solmsciapus, who's the evidence leader before the tribunal.

0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.400
<v Speaker 1>And just in terms of where we stand in the

0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.720
<v Speaker 1>process many weeks to go, a matter of what are

0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:02.960
<v Speaker 1>we looking at well.

0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Traditionally, tribunals do take quite a while before they wrap

0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:12.000
<v Speaker 2>up and before the tribunal gives its findings and writes

0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.799
<v Speaker 2>a report to the Judicial Services Commission. You'll remember that

0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.880
<v Speaker 2>this tribunal is established in terms of the jac Act,

0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.600
<v Speaker 2>and so after it has concluded its work, it will

0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:28.120
<v Speaker 2>then present its findings and its report to the JSC

0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:33.600
<v Speaker 2>to the Judicial Conduct Sorry the Judicial Services Commission that

0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.840
<v Speaker 2>will then look at the recommendations or the findings of

0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:42.400
<v Speaker 2>the tribunal and also make a finding as to whether

0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:47.559
<v Speaker 2>it endorses the finding that has been made by the tribunal.

0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.920
<v Speaker 2>That will call or maybe a finding of gross misconduct.

0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Of course, the Constitution says there are certain uh transgressions

0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:03.160
<v Speaker 2>that may land a judge or may land a tribunal

0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.120
<v Speaker 2>to a finding of grossness conduct, and among them is

0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.840
<v Speaker 2>the sexual harassments claim that has been made by Andy

0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.000
<v Speaker 2>swimming But John, I also want to just focus, if

0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.440
<v Speaker 2>you have time, on these submissions that have been made

0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.800
<v Speaker 2>by Alisa Vettan today where she speaks of the power

0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.479
<v Speaker 2>dynamics that have been made by the power dynamics that

0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:29.240
<v Speaker 2>exist between Anti Swimmingor and the Judge President, also saying

0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:33.000
<v Speaker 2>that because there is a power dynamic there where you

0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.520
<v Speaker 2>have someone that is quite senior and someone that is

0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:40.120
<v Speaker 2>subordinate in the workplace, those power dynamics do have an

0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.320
<v Speaker 2>influence in the way that Andy Swimminger also responded to

0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:46.840
<v Speaker 2>some of the sexual advances that were made by the

0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.359
<v Speaker 2>Judge President. You'll remember that she says that the Judge

0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:54.400
<v Speaker 2>President made unwanted sexual advances towards her between twenty one

0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:59.039
<v Speaker 2>and twenty twenty two, also sending allegedly sending salacious messages

0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.279
<v Speaker 2>to her between that period and something that she found

0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.480
<v Speaker 2>to have been unwanted at the time, which led to

0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:10.520
<v Speaker 2>the official complaint that she laid at with the Judicial

0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.520
<v Speaker 2>Service Commission in twenty twenty three.

0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:18.480
<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much so, Lega Kodache edw and reporter tracking

0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:19.280
<v Speaker 1>that story.