Speaker 1: Right, let's get then to that matter. This has been
Speaker 1: running for quite a while now. It is the Judicial
Speaker 1: Conduct Tribunal sitting in Santon. A sexual harassment complaint has
Speaker 1: been laid against Eastern Cape Judge President Selby Benenge and
Speaker 1: the plaintive is High Court Secretary and swam Mengo testifying today,
Speaker 1: research associated at Fitzsuniversity and someone who comments regularly on
Speaker 1: this station, on the shown indeed throughout the media on
Speaker 1: issues of sexual violence and related questions. Lisa Vetten was
Speaker 1: testifying today and from what I could see just glancing
Speaker 1: up from time to time when it was on the television.
Speaker 1: Subject now to cross examiner examination by the Judge President's Council. Right,
Speaker 1: let's get Zorlega, gord Ah. She's been reporting regularly throughout
Speaker 1: the day for an update on where we stand as
Speaker 1: the day closes, zor Lega, what happened in the afternoon
Speaker 1: or pick it up from wherever you think we need
Speaker 1: to know.
Speaker 2: Good afternoon, John, and good afternoon to the listeners. You'll
Speaker 2: remember that power dynamics and the gender dynamics as well
Speaker 2: in the workplace were quite a recurring theme when AMTI
Speaker 2: summing or the complainant in the matter. The High Court
Speaker 2: Secretary that's accused, Eathan Kape, Judge Presidents of sexual harassment,
Speaker 2: laid her complaint and gave her evidence in chief in
Speaker 2: January this year, and so that is the basis upon
Speaker 2: which Lisa Vettan has been testified before the Judicial Conduct
Speaker 2: Tribunal that's tasked with investigating the claims that have been
Speaker 2: made by menem And so as the afternoon wrapped up,
Speaker 2: we saw the Council for Judge President Sabin Benenger really
Speaker 2: pressing Lisa Vettan on the kind of witness expert witness
Speaker 2: that she is given the fact that she has written
Speaker 2: quite extensively on this topic of sexual harassment, particularly the
Speaker 2: gender dynamics as well as well as the workplace, and
Speaker 2: so Advocate Moses Kakane really saying that her evidence was
Speaker 2: deficient in that she only looked at the evidence that
Speaker 2: was provided by the complainant and didn't look at the
Speaker 2: evidence that was given or the submissions that have been
Speaker 2: made by the Judge President himself. Of course, we know
Speaker 2: John that this is a matter that is going to
Speaker 2: be sitting. All this hearing in particular will be sitting
Speaker 2: until the eleventh of July, and so we expect more
Speaker 2: people to come forward, particularly from the respondent side, the
Speaker 2: witnesses that they will be presenting, as well as the
Speaker 2: Judge President himself, to really give evidence and to counter
Speaker 2: the claims that have been made by Lisa Vettan and
Speaker 2: the other expert witnesses and other witnesses that have been
Speaker 2: presented by advocates solmsciapus, who's the evidence leader before the tribunal.
Speaker 1: And just in terms of where we stand in the
Speaker 1: process many weeks to go, a matter of what are
Speaker 1: we looking at well.
Speaker 2: Traditionally, tribunals do take quite a while before they wrap
Speaker 2: up and before the tribunal gives its findings and writes
Speaker 2: a report to the Judicial Services Commission. You'll remember that
Speaker 2: this tribunal is established in terms of the jac Act,
Speaker 2: and so after it has concluded its work, it will
Speaker 2: then present its findings and its report to the JSC
Speaker 2: to the Judicial Conduct Sorry the Judicial Services Commission that
Speaker 2: will then look at the recommendations or the findings of
Speaker 2: the tribunal and also make a finding as to whether
Speaker 2: it endorses the finding that has been made by the tribunal.
Speaker 2: That will call or maybe a finding of gross misconduct.
Speaker 2: Of course, the Constitution says there are certain uh transgressions
Speaker 2: that may land a judge or may land a tribunal
Speaker 2: to a finding of grossness conduct, and among them is
Speaker 2: the sexual harassments claim that has been made by Andy
Speaker 2: swimming But John, I also want to just focus, if
Speaker 2: you have time, on these submissions that have been made
Speaker 2: by Alisa Vettan today where she speaks of the power
Speaker 2: dynamics that have been made by the power dynamics that
Speaker 2: exist between Anti Swimmingor and the Judge President, also saying
Speaker 2: that because there is a power dynamic there where you
Speaker 2: have someone that is quite senior and someone that is
Speaker 2: subordinate in the workplace, those power dynamics do have an
Speaker 2: influence in the way that Andy Swimminger also responded to
Speaker 2: some of the sexual advances that were made by the
Speaker 2: Judge President. You'll remember that she says that the Judge
Speaker 2: President made unwanted sexual advances towards her between twenty one
Speaker 2: and twenty twenty two, also sending allegedly sending salacious messages
Speaker 2: to her between that period and something that she found
Speaker 2: to have been unwanted at the time, which led to
Speaker 2: the official complaint that she laid at with the Judicial
Speaker 2: Service Commission in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much so, Lega Kodache edw and reporter tracking
Speaker 1: that story.