Speaker 1: Streaming countrywide on Prime Media.
Speaker 2: Class on DStv channel eighth five and across the city.
Speaker 1: Daniel dan Holland go to psychologist.
Speaker 2: Psychologist joins us for a deep dive.
Speaker 1: Are you well? I am?
Speaker 3: How are you?
Speaker 1: All's well with my soul?
Speaker 3: Sounds good?
Speaker 2: Is that fundamentally where my essence resides in my soul?
Speaker 2: And then how do I fix my soul? If if
Speaker 2: I'm not a piece?
Speaker 1: I mean?
Speaker 3: The interesting part is is that different places have different
Speaker 3: definitions of where the soul is. For some people it's
Speaker 3: at the bottom of the foot with a you.
Speaker 1: Where does your soul reside?
Speaker 3: I couldn't resist that. For some it's a hard thing.
Speaker 3: For some it's somewhere in the solar plexa. For some
Speaker 3: it's in the mind. But I think, you know, one
Speaker 3: of the most beautiful things about this planet is we
Speaker 3: have these beautiful different worldviews, and each worldview has its
Speaker 3: own wisdom and has its own brilliance and a way
Speaker 3: in the world. Can you really explore other worldviews? In
Speaker 3: South Africa we are beautiful. I think that that's one
Speaker 3: of the reasons why, especially in the rugby we are
Speaker 3: as strong as we are because of the embracing of
Speaker 3: the different cultures of rugby that's taken place. I mean
Speaker 3: a master class from RUSSI to get an all blacks
Speaker 3: attack line coach in and and we'll reap the benefits
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 2: So your answer is take the soul out of the equation.
Speaker 2: Let's get to the urban all or to the therapy.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that that's sort of where where the
Speaker 3: interesting part is is that, No, I don't think we
Speaker 3: can do that. I think that there is definitely this
Speaker 3: concept of this and I think you know, that's one
Speaker 3: of the most interesting parts of my profession is we
Speaker 3: said right in the middle of biology and philosophy, if
Speaker 3: you like, about the physical self, but also the meaningful self.
Speaker 3: I mean something that you said a bit earlier, you know,
Speaker 3: chemical imbalances, is that everything we do is chemical balances
Speaker 3: and imbalances and then balances and then imbalances. I mean
Speaker 3: even talking now, there's chemicals at play in regards to
Speaker 3: what we do. Depending on the topic, line depends on
Speaker 3: the emotions that I show. Sometimes I can hold it
Speaker 3: and sometimes you or I get really heated in regards
Speaker 3: to the conversation. That's chemical plays. So I think what
Speaker 3: becomes A bit of a problem is when we get
Speaker 3: into habits, and one of the biggest difficulties is the
Speaker 3: fact that we need we need our emotions in order
Speaker 3: to be able to socially engage with us with each other.
Speaker 3: Remember that human beings we have our own instinct, you know,
Speaker 3: as finder instinct is to spin a web, but beaver's
Speaker 3: instinct is to make a damn and humans instinct is
Speaker 3: to create large societies. That's why we second on the
Speaker 3: food chain. I think viruses have beaten us. Now we're
Speaker 3: second on the food chain.
Speaker 1: But some would argue old question who created the virus?
Speaker 3: That's also true, but maybe there's also our need to
Speaker 3: be in control. But the thing is, in regards to societies,
Speaker 3: it means that our biggest natural enemy is ourselves, and
Speaker 3: so communities and social social gathering, social communities. We need
Speaker 3: to be able to figure out in a very short
Speaker 3: period of time who are the people we can trust
Speaker 3: and who are the people that we don't trust. And
Speaker 3: I never trust somebody who asked me to trust them
Speaker 3: in two minutes or five minutes or on the basis
Speaker 3: sometimes on the basis of a credential. But I would
Speaker 3: have to do some background checks on that, and you
Speaker 3: should do background checks on all the experts that speak.
Speaker 3: Concluding myself, but I think in line with that, our
Speaker 3: emotions go a long way in being able to communicate
Speaker 3: to us what our system is picking up. Happiness teaches
Speaker 3: us to be grateful. The function of happiness as gratitudes that.
Speaker 3: The function of anxiety is to warn the function of
Speaker 3: excitement is to anticipate and plan. That the function of
Speaker 3: sadness is to bring meaning. The function of anger is
Speaker 3: to protect what we risk of being hurt. So each
Speaker 3: emotion that we have, in its right way plays an
Speaker 3: important function to us. That's why we wouldn't want to
Speaker 3: be without any emotion. If you don't believe me, what's
Speaker 3: worse than being anxious when a dog is chasing you
Speaker 3: is not being anxious when it does chasing you, Then
Speaker 3: you're going to be in trouble. And I think in
Speaker 3: that line, the problem is that sometimes an emotion can
Speaker 3: give us a drive and ageneraline rush or a response,
Speaker 3: or whatever the case might be, and as a result
Speaker 3: of that we can become more productive. So, for example,
Speaker 3: anxiety is a good example of that. Too little anxiety
Speaker 3: and you get bored. Too much anxiety and you get overwhelmed.
Speaker 3: So there's a sweet point in between. But the problem
Speaker 3: is that humans are incredibly adaptive animals. You know that
Speaker 3: they talk about a frog. If you put a frog
Speaker 3: in boiling water, you'll jump out, But if you put
Speaker 3: them in cold water and slowly warm the water up,
Speaker 3: the frog will stay there until the cook's alive. And
Speaker 3: as a result of it, as humans, we kind of
Speaker 3: do a similar thing is we allow ourselves and myself included,
Speaker 3: I thought for this all the time, but we allow
Speaker 3: ourselves to work in environments and conducts that we want
Speaker 3: to normalize or becomes normalized. For example, I often find
Speaker 3: in my therapy room and I do deal with communities
Speaker 3: such as Landsdowne, Bounty of all new fields. That's certain
Speaker 3: of my clients all don't don't get traumatized by listening
Speaker 3: to gunshots at night. That they've gotten used to it,
Speaker 3: And for me, it's a useful example in my head
Speaker 3: constantly that irregardless of whether or not I accidentally cut
Speaker 3: my finger with a very sharp knife or a surgeon
Speaker 3: very delicately makes a cut on my finger, both instances,
Speaker 3: my finger will bleed, and in a very similar way,
Speaker 3: irregardless if I'm used to it, I'm not used to it.
Speaker 3: I'm going to have an anxious response when my automated
Speaker 3: responses are targeted. I might be very good at being
Speaker 3: able to turn it off, but only a split second
Speaker 3: or two split seconds later. In other words, the accumulation
Speaker 3: of this will have an effect, you know, irregardless of
Speaker 3: whether or not are closed that weren't quickly and rub it,
Speaker 3: there's still going to be a laceration on my finger.
Speaker 3: And I think we underestimate that as human beings. So
Speaker 3: what happens is we have if you like a two
Speaker 3: liter bottle of water, that's the tolerance of which we
Speaker 3: are able to anticipate and engage with life. But if
Speaker 3: we give away a liter a liter and a half
Speaker 3: a liter in three quarters, then somebody comes in with
Speaker 3: a small glass of water for us to hold, but
Speaker 3: we suddenly can't hold it anymore, and then we think
Speaker 3: of ourselves as weak, but we don't realize it's because
Speaker 3: we're holding already one and a half one and three
Speaker 3: quarter liters of water, liters of difficulties in our system,
Speaker 3: and we have this expectation of ourselves that we should
Speaker 3: be able to hold more than what is actually humanly capable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got to do a litmus test on that,
Speaker 2: on that water. What is the condition of that water
Speaker 2: that you are retaining? And then you say it's a
Speaker 2: chemical imbalance. You say that we can condition or we
Speaker 2: can also naturally balance the chemicals in the event of
Speaker 2: an imbalance. Of course, we can take the pull that
Speaker 2: would then counterbalance and the imbalance, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2: There's a whole lot there that you said, and there's
Speaker 2: a whole lot that we're going to get use and
Speaker 2: use with Clarence Forward, share your perspective only talk ten
Speaker 2: fifty two.
Speaker 1: D's has your soul? Do you have a soul? Is
Speaker 1: your soul healthy?
Speaker 2: And I'm not talking about that soul at the bottom
Speaker 2: of your shoe? Were chatting to Daniel den Hollander is
Speaker 2: a psychologist and he joins us regularly.
Speaker 1: We do a little bit of a deep dive, not
Speaker 1: quite sure where we're gonna.
Speaker 2: End up, and I guess today is no different. But
Speaker 2: a message in via what's happened? Oh seven two five
Speaker 2: six seven one five six seven, Please repeat what each
Speaker 2: emotion represents that has just been listed by your guest. Example, anger,
Speaker 2: equals protection of ourselves.
Speaker 1: Et cetera.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm happy to do.
Speaker 1: They're like deeper meaning to all of these emotions.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what I was saying was that the we
Speaker 3: need the emotions in order to be able to socially
Speaker 3: engage with each other, and it serves a very good
Speaker 3: protective value, so to name it out the top of
Speaker 3: my head. So, happiness teaches us how to be grateful,
Speaker 3: and anxiety teaches us it's a warning sign. I think
Speaker 3: of like a smoke detector. It is warning us that
Speaker 3: something is not okay, something is not right. Excitement, which
Speaker 3: is in a sense the same kind of energy, if
Speaker 3: you like, as anxiety. Excitement teaches us to anticipate, and
Speaker 3: with excitement often comes in preparation. I sometimes think of
Speaker 3: excitement and anxiety as like the acceleration and the brake
Speaker 3: pedal of something that's happening in the future. So excitement
Speaker 3: and anxiety are very much us living in the future.
Speaker 3: Sadness is about meaning. I think nothing illustrates her better
Speaker 3: than the movie Inside Out, the first one. It really
Speaker 3: explains that brilliantly. But it's you know, most people, when
Speaker 3: you ask them what's their favorite song, won't tell you
Speaker 3: a happy song, they'll usually tell you a sad song
Speaker 3: because a sad song has much more meaning for them.
Speaker 3: And so sadness brings us to meaning and anger brings
Speaker 3: us to protection. I think of a mama bear when
Speaker 3: I think of anger, so that's also the way that
Speaker 3: I remember them. And you know, the important thing is
Speaker 3: that this is also a very important part. We highly
Speaker 3: overestimate how we're aware we are of our own feelings.
Speaker 3: In fact, most of the time I'm not even aware
Speaker 3: that there's any emotion on my face. Somebody else has
Speaker 3: to tell me that has happened. I'm sure it's happened
Speaker 3: to the listeners. That happens to me too. We highly
Speaker 3: overestimate how and touch you out with our feelings. Yet
Speaker 3: we're very very good at being able to tell the
Speaker 3: person that's coming into the room what emotion is on
Speaker 3: their face. We can actually do it usually quicker than
Speaker 3: they are aware of it themselves, and they don't even
Speaker 3: have to say a word. We know exactly what question
Speaker 3: to ask and where to go with them. So I
Speaker 3: think in that regards as well, is it's usually a
Speaker 3: good indicator if somebody says to you that you love
Speaker 3: and that you trust, and that is not out there
Speaker 3: with an ulterior motive. If they say to you, hey,
Speaker 3: something's wrong, you need to go and sort yourself out
Speaker 3: or get yourself checked in, Go and do it.
Speaker 2: Okay, So then we go up. It answers that question.
Speaker 2: So you can again just so that I can understand
Speaker 2: you're saying. Emotions is like an instinct. You can rationalize
Speaker 2: yourself outside of that instinct.
Speaker 3: It's part of an instinct. The instinct is the ability
Speaker 3: to be able to create an enormous amount of relationships.
Speaker 3: So this is where it gets interesting. So from mammals,
Speaker 3: the closest mammal to us in regards to relationship building
Speaker 3: is a volved monkey that can generate about or maintain
Speaker 3: sixty relationships in a lifetime. We manage two hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty relationships in the lifetime. But that's why we're on
Speaker 3: top in regards to the numbers on the planets and
Speaker 3: the seven billion human beings and the next two mammals
Speaker 3: below us. What we cultivate to eat, So the ability
Speaker 3: to be able to have language, the ability to become
Speaker 3: emotionally aware with each other are incredibly important parts of
Speaker 3: ourselves that allow us to be able to create two
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty relationships during a lifetime. And we know that,
Speaker 3: for example, those parts of the brain. You know, that's
Speaker 3: why it takes so long for us to get independent.
Speaker 3: So Springbok can already walk within less than a day.
Speaker 2: Let's just just wrap up again, because when we are
Speaker 2: unable to get the body to find the balance, the
Speaker 2: chemical balance to create the other chemicals to bring it
Speaker 2: to even keel, when we are unable to think away
Speaker 2: into that kind of balance, when do we go for
Speaker 2: the alternative?
Speaker 3: So the problem is the problem is we usually go
Speaker 3: to the to seek help way too late. That's the problem.
Speaker 3: So if you come in too late, your system is
Speaker 3: so overwhelmed. If you think of like a car, you know,
Speaker 3: if a car is already making noises, you should take
Speaker 3: it to the to the but we don't. We put
Speaker 3: the music one louder, We question whether or not the
Speaker 3: noise was really there, and we get there only when
Speaker 3: there's a proper leakage, and then there's a big repair.
Speaker 1: Then you need an engine, a new engine exactly.
Speaker 3: And I think it's it's exactly the same with our bodies.
Speaker 3: So in regards with our minds, when we start to
Speaker 3: do erratic behavior. If our sleeping pattern is out, if
Speaker 3: our eating pattern is out, if we are having nightmares constantly,
Speaker 3: if we are starting to get stomach ulcers. Well, there's
Speaker 3: a whole array of different ways in which our system
Speaker 3: isn't running as it should. If the longer that we wait,
Speaker 3: the more serious it needs. So often the medication comes in.
Speaker 3: When I cannot manage you from session to session, then
Speaker 3: I need psychiaty to come in and be able to
Speaker 3: help the hard way.
Speaker 2: I think we understand that I'm gonna bank what Kim
Speaker 2: shares via WhatsApp, and I want you to say a
Speaker 2: or nay. Emotions are fantastic as guides, but should not
Speaker 2: rule us.
Speaker 3: Yea, nothing should rule us.
Speaker 1: I like that Kim. Emotions are fantastic as guides.
Speaker 3: But don't let it own you inside out. Too beautiful
Speaker 3: depiction of exactly that, But.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a late news bulletin. Unfortunately. It's
Speaker 1: like that with Daniel Dean Hollander.
Speaker 2: I go to psychologists a deep dive in the state
Speaker 2: of the human condition.