WEBVTT - Deep Dive with Daniel Den Hollander 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.160 Streaming countrywide on Prime Media. 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:11.360 Class on DStv channel eighth five and across the city. 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:18.279 Daniel dan Holland go to psychologist. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.720 Psychologist joins us for a deep dive. 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.040 Are you well? I am? 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:24.680 How are you? 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:26.680 All's well with my soul? 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:28.920 Sounds good? 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:33.160 Is that fundamentally where my essence resides in my soul? 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.199 And then how do I fix my soul? If if 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:38.000 I'm not a piece? 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:40.080 I mean? 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.880 The interesting part is is that different places have different 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.159 definitions of where the soul is. For some people it's 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.960 at the bottom of the foot with a you. 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.040 Where does your soul reside? 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:02.280 I couldn't resist that. For some it's a hard thing. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.920 For some it's somewhere in the solar plexa. For some 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:06.680 it's in the mind. But I think, you know, one 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.280 of the most beautiful things about this planet is we 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:14.440 have these beautiful different worldviews, and each worldview has its 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:16.880 own wisdom and has its own brilliance and a way 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:21.679 in the world. Can you really explore other worldviews? In 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:26.000 South Africa we are beautiful. I think that that's one 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.560 of the reasons why, especially in the rugby we are 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:30.920 as strong as we are because of the embracing of 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.680 the different cultures of rugby that's taken place. I mean 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.240 a master class from RUSSI to get an all blacks 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.679 attack line coach in and and we'll reap the benefits 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:41.920 of that. 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.280 So your answer is take the soul out of the equation. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.800 Let's get to the urban all or to the therapy. 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:49.080 Right. 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.920 Well, I think that that's sort of where where the 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:56.520 interesting part is is that, No, I don't think we 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.080 can do that. I think that there is definitely this 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:03.120 concept of this and I think you know, that's one 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.480 of the most interesting parts of my profession is we 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:09.560 said right in the middle of biology and philosophy, if 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:13.040 you like, about the physical self, but also the meaningful self. 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:14.960 I mean something that you said a bit earlier, you know, 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:20.480 chemical imbalances, is that everything we do is chemical balances 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:23.280 and imbalances and then balances and then imbalances. I mean 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:27.640 even talking now, there's chemicals at play in regards to 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:31.800 what we do. Depending on the topic, line depends on 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:34.720 the emotions that I show. Sometimes I can hold it 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:39.080 and sometimes you or I get really heated in regards 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:44.000 to the conversation. That's chemical plays. So I think what 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.000 becomes A bit of a problem is when we get 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.960 into habits, and one of the biggest difficulties is the 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:56.520 fact that we need we need our emotions in order 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.119 to be able to socially engage with us with each other. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.960 Remember that human beings we have our own instinct, you know, 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:07.040 as finder instinct is to spin a web, but beaver's 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:11.000 instinct is to make a damn and humans instinct is 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.240 to create large societies. That's why we second on the 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.239 food chain. I think viruses have beaten us. Now we're 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:18.240 second on the food chain. 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:25.080 But some would argue old question who created the virus? 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.720 That's also true, but maybe there's also our need to 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:35.160 be in control. But the thing is, in regards to societies, 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:41.040 it means that our biggest natural enemy is ourselves, and 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:48.680 so communities and social social gathering, social communities. We need 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:50.960 to be able to figure out in a very short 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.720 period of time who are the people we can trust 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.600 and who are the people that we don't trust. And 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:58.760 I never trust somebody who asked me to trust them 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.840 in two minutes or five minutes or on the basis 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.040 sometimes on the basis of a credential. But I would 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.360 have to do some background checks on that, and you 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.680 should do background checks on all the experts that speak. 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:16.400 Concluding myself, but I think in line with that, our 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.760 emotions go a long way in being able to communicate 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:24.600 to us what our system is picking up. Happiness teaches 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:29.200 us to be grateful. The function of happiness as gratitudes that. 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.680 The function of anxiety is to warn the function of 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.039 excitement is to anticipate and plan. That the function of 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.760 sadness is to bring meaning. The function of anger is 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:45.920 to protect what we risk of being hurt. So each 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.480 emotion that we have, in its right way plays an 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.159 important function to us. That's why we wouldn't want to 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:56.080 be without any emotion. If you don't believe me, what's 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.440 worse than being anxious when a dog is chasing you 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.960 is not being anxious when it does chasing you, Then 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.600 you're going to be in trouble. And I think in 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:11.560 that line, the problem is that sometimes an emotion can 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.160 give us a drive and ageneraline rush or a response, 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.760 or whatever the case might be, and as a result 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.719 of that we can become more productive. So, for example, 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:26.719 anxiety is a good example of that. Too little anxiety 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.080 and you get bored. Too much anxiety and you get overwhelmed. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.960 So there's a sweet point in between. But the problem 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.760 is that humans are incredibly adaptive animals. You know that 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:39.440 they talk about a frog. If you put a frog 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.440 in boiling water, you'll jump out, But if you put 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.320 them in cold water and slowly warm the water up, 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.520 the frog will stay there until the cook's alive. And 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.279 as a result of it, as humans, we kind of 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.320 do a similar thing is we allow ourselves and myself included, 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.840 I thought for this all the time, but we allow 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:02.280 ourselves to work in environments and conducts that we want 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:08.120 to normalize or becomes normalized. For example, I often find 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.480 in my therapy room and I do deal with communities 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:19.679 such as Landsdowne, Bounty of all new fields. That's certain 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:26.279 of my clients all don't don't get traumatized by listening 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:30.880 to gunshots at night. That they've gotten used to it, 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.919 And for me, it's a useful example in my head 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:41.839 constantly that irregardless of whether or not I accidentally cut 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.800 my finger with a very sharp knife or a surgeon 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:49.120 very delicately makes a cut on my finger, both instances, 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:51.760 my finger will bleed, and in a very similar way, 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.640 irregardless if I'm used to it, I'm not used to it. 0:06:55.880 --> 0:07:01.960 I'm going to have an anxious response when my automated 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.840 responses are targeted. I might be very good at being 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.640 able to turn it off, but only a split second 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:12.240 or two split seconds later. In other words, the accumulation 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.560 of this will have an effect, you know, irregardless of 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.320 whether or not are closed that weren't quickly and rub it, 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.040 there's still going to be a laceration on my finger. 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.560 And I think we underestimate that as human beings. So 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.240 what happens is we have if you like a two 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:32.040 liter bottle of water, that's the tolerance of which we 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:36.000 are able to anticipate and engage with life. But if 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.520 we give away a liter a liter and a half 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.920 a liter in three quarters, then somebody comes in with 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.640 a small glass of water for us to hold, but 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:47.920 we suddenly can't hold it anymore, and then we think 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.880 of ourselves as weak, but we don't realize it's because 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.480 we're holding already one and a half one and three 0:07:55.560 --> 0:08:01.480 quarter liters of water, liters of difficulties in our system, 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.920 and we have this expectation of ourselves that we should 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:11.040 be able to hold more than what is actually humanly capable. 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.000 Yeah, I've got to do a litmus test on that, 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.200 on that water. What is the condition of that water 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.560 that you are retaining? And then you say it's a 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:25.160 chemical imbalance. You say that we can condition or we 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:32.280 can also naturally balance the chemicals in the event of 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.360 an imbalance. Of course, we can take the pull that 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.440 would then counterbalance and the imbalance, whatever the case may be. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.040 There's a whole lot there that you said, and there's 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.720 a whole lot that we're going to get use and 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:50.920 use with Clarence Forward, share your perspective only talk ten 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:51.559 fifty two. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.000 D's has your soul? Do you have a soul? Is 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:56.000 your soul healthy? 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.800 And I'm not talking about that soul at the bottom 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:04.600 of your shoe? Were chatting to Daniel den Hollander is 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.800 a psychologist and he joins us regularly. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:09.880 We do a little bit of a deep dive, not 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:11.120 quite sure where we're gonna. 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.480 End up, and I guess today is no different. But 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.600 a message in via what's happened? Oh seven two five 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:20.040 six seven one five six seven, Please repeat what each 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.760 emotion represents that has just been listed by your guest. Example, anger, 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.360 equals protection of ourselves. 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:27.319 Et cetera. 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:29.000 Yeah, I'm happy to do. 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.800 They're like deeper meaning to all of these emotions. 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.320 Yeah, So what I was saying was that the we 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.120 need the emotions in order to be able to socially 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.640 engage with each other, and it serves a very good 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:46.679 protective value, so to name it out the top of 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:50.640 my head. So, happiness teaches us how to be grateful, 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:55.680 and anxiety teaches us it's a warning sign. I think 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.400 of like a smoke detector. It is warning us that 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.000 something is not okay, something is not right. Excitement, which 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.439 is in a sense the same kind of energy, if 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:10.440 you like, as anxiety. Excitement teaches us to anticipate, and 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.120 with excitement often comes in preparation. I sometimes think of 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.520 excitement and anxiety as like the acceleration and the brake 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.480 pedal of something that's happening in the future. So excitement 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:25.760 and anxiety are very much us living in the future. 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:33.000 Sadness is about meaning. I think nothing illustrates her better 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.560 than the movie Inside Out, the first one. It really 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:41.320 explains that brilliantly. But it's you know, most people, when 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.080 you ask them what's their favorite song, won't tell you 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.480 a happy song, they'll usually tell you a sad song 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.320 because a sad song has much more meaning for them. 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.400 And so sadness brings us to meaning and anger brings 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:57.040 us to protection. I think of a mama bear when 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.200 I think of anger, so that's also the way that 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:06.160 I remember them. And you know, the important thing is 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:10.280 that this is also a very important part. We highly 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.479 overestimate how we're aware we are of our own feelings. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.080 In fact, most of the time I'm not even aware 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.760 that there's any emotion on my face. Somebody else has 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.880 to tell me that has happened. I'm sure it's happened 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.439 to the listeners. That happens to me too. We highly 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.360 overestimate how and touch you out with our feelings. Yet 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:35.080 we're very very good at being able to tell the 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.880 person that's coming into the room what emotion is on 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.679 their face. We can actually do it usually quicker than 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.120 they are aware of it themselves, and they don't even 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.000 have to say a word. We know exactly what question 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:50.400 to ask and where to go with them. So I 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:54.640 think in that regards as well, is it's usually a 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.640 good indicator if somebody says to you that you love 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.719 and that you trust, and that is not out there 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.800 with an ulterior motive. If they say to you, hey, 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.400 something's wrong, you need to go and sort yourself out 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.040 or get yourself checked in, Go and do it. 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.520 Okay, So then we go up. It answers that question. 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.720 So you can again just so that I can understand 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:22.600 you're saying. Emotions is like an instinct. You can rationalize 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.000 yourself outside of that instinct. 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.240 It's part of an instinct. The instinct is the ability 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:32.960 to be able to create an enormous amount of relationships. 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.760 So this is where it gets interesting. So from mammals, 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:42.320 the closest mammal to us in regards to relationship building 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.079 is a volved monkey that can generate about or maintain 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:49.920 sixty relationships in a lifetime. We manage two hundred and 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.160 fifty relationships in the lifetime. But that's why we're on 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.520 top in regards to the numbers on the planets and 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.120 the seven billion human beings and the next two mammals 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:04.400 below us. What we cultivate to eat, So the ability 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.200 to be able to have language, the ability to become 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.199 emotionally aware with each other are incredibly important parts of 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.400 ourselves that allow us to be able to create two 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.640 hundred and fifty relationships during a lifetime. And we know that, 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.240 for example, those parts of the brain. You know, that's 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.480 why it takes so long for us to get independent. 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.040 So Springbok can already walk within less than a day. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.880 Let's just just wrap up again, because when we are 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.840 unable to get the body to find the balance, the 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:40.520 chemical balance to create the other chemicals to bring it 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:45.480 to even keel, when we are unable to think away 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.480 into that kind of balance, when do we go for 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.679 the alternative? 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.120 So the problem is the problem is we usually go 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.760 to the to seek help way too late. That's the problem. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.679 So if you come in too late, your system is 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.600 so overwhelmed. If you think of like a car, you know, 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.200 if a car is already making noises, you should take 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:14.320 it to the to the but we don't. We put 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.160 the music one louder, We question whether or not the 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.240 noise was really there, and we get there only when 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.280 there's a proper leakage, and then there's a big repair. 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.560 Then you need an engine, a new engine exactly. 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.560 And I think it's it's exactly the same with our bodies. 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:31.040 So in regards with our minds, when we start to 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.280 do erratic behavior. If our sleeping pattern is out, if 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.840 our eating pattern is out, if we are having nightmares constantly, 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.160 if we are starting to get stomach ulcers. Well, there's 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.600 a whole array of different ways in which our system 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:51.920 isn't running as it should. If the longer that we wait, 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:56.320 the more serious it needs. So often the medication comes in. 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.440 When I cannot manage you from session to session, then 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.720 I need psychiaty to come in and be able to 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:04.560 help the hard way. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.240 I think we understand that I'm gonna bank what Kim 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.520 shares via WhatsApp, and I want you to say a 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:15.160 or nay. Emotions are fantastic as guides, but should not 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:16.040 rule us. 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:18.720 Yea, nothing should rule us. 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:23.320 I like that Kim. Emotions are fantastic as guides. 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.280 But don't let it own you inside out. Too beautiful 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.960 depiction of exactly that, But. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.960 It's going to be a late news bulletin. Unfortunately. It's 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.000 like that with Daniel Dean Hollander. 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.840 I go to psychologists a deep dive in the state 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:38.800 of the human condition.