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Speaker 1: You're with Clement Manya Taylor on Let's Walk the Talk,

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Speaker 1: streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 2: Ad DearS TV channel eight five six.

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Speaker 1: Ninety two point seven and one O six FM.

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Speaker 3: Nine minutes after nine o'clock, Do Melang. Welcome to the

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Speaker 3: Thursday edition of the Clement Manuitela Show. It's wonderful too

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Speaker 3: heavy with us here on seven oh two. I hope

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Speaker 3: you're well this morning. The seven o two open line

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Speaker 3: starts right now on oh one one eight eight three

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Speaker 3: oh seven oh two. The whats up line is oh

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Speaker 3: seven two seven oh two one seven oh two. So

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Speaker 3: the ad hoc Committee is done with its witnesses, right,

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Speaker 3: they're now going to start with like the liberations, going

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Speaker 3: from witness to witness and what's been revealed in the committee,

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Speaker 3: and then that will culminate in a report with findings.

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Speaker 3: Yesterday the case at and Police Commission and cons returned

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Speaker 3: to the Committee as a final witness, having been the

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Speaker 3: first witness as well, in fact, having been the man

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Speaker 3: who opened this can of worms which have revealed the

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Speaker 3: rot in the SAPs, and the country really owes him

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Speaker 3: a lot for that. So now that the Adult Committee

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Speaker 3: is done with its witnesses, I would like to know

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Speaker 3: what your reflections on the work of this committee are.

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Speaker 3: Do you think the committee has helped reveal some really

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Speaker 3: important things about corruption in the SAPs. Are you happy

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Speaker 3: with how the politicians have carried themselves and run this committee.

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Speaker 3: I'd like you to give us a call on oh

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Speaker 3: one one eight eight three h seven oh two. You

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Speaker 3: can send it. What's up as well? I must say

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Speaker 3: I think the committee speaking to kat Mattala was quite important.

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Speaker 3: You know. I don't think he was necessarily honest. I

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Speaker 3: don't think the committee itself was well prepared to take

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Speaker 3: him to task, but I understand because the committee doesn't

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Speaker 3: have the investigative capacity that the Malanga Commission has. I

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Speaker 3: also do think that there has been a lot of

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Speaker 3: political glam standing, which I also get because that's a

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Speaker 3: political platform, right, But I don't like how some of

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Speaker 3: the witnesses have been treated by the members of Parliament

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Speaker 3: in that committee. I mean, the disrespect and the hatred

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Speaker 3: for some witnesses was palpable. So what do you think

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Speaker 3: of the work of the ad hoc committee and what

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Speaker 3: they've managed to do so far? Anything that you thought

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Speaker 3: that was quite a pivotal moment in the Committee and

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Speaker 3: how have the hearings been conducted and how have they

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Speaker 3: helped us understand more about the criminal justice system and

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Speaker 3: the rod that exists within. I'm going to play you

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Speaker 3: some of the clips of Karazi and what he had

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Speaker 3: to say yesterday as the last witness, But please give

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Speaker 3: me your reflections, give me a call or send me.

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Speaker 3: What's a voice note?

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Speaker 1: Clement Manateela streaming on the Prime Media plus at.

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Speaker 4: Them good morning seven or two lenders, Good morning clament Kannita.

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Speaker 4: I think it's been wonderful watching the two states, of

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Speaker 4: the two arms of government dealing with one problem, but differently,

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Speaker 4: I think it's been fabulous. I think for me, one

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Speaker 4: of the biggest things that every single member of the

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Speaker 4: committee saw was how they have failed in their duty

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Speaker 4: to hold those that are.

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Speaker 5: Reporting to them accountable.

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Speaker 4: And the real test of how great this process would

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Speaker 4: be would be in their reporting and in the ability

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Speaker 4: to look within to see how what we call accountability fails.

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Speaker 5: I'm so grateful. I think it's been beautiful.

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Speaker 4: And you don't expect the Committee to be the same

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Speaker 4: as the Commission for obvious reasons, right technical aspects of

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Speaker 4: the matter, but also the areas of strength. From my perspective,

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Speaker 4: our country needed this and it would be amazing if

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Speaker 4: they do the same for help, would it not?

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much this Emma from Pretoria.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Emma, I agree, and maybe this is where the

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Speaker 3: country needs. So instead of the dialogue, where where is

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Speaker 3: the dialogue? Remember the national dialogue? Why is that? Now?

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Speaker 3: I think there was a preparatory meetings taking place? And

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Speaker 3: then is it still gonna happen this year before the elections?

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Speaker 3: Is it gonna be delayed? Feather? Anyway, the point I'm making,

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Speaker 3: Emma is maybe this is actually what we need. It's

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Speaker 3: almost like when you go to a therapist and one

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Speaker 3: of the things you want to do there is to

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Speaker 3: just to vent and to just to reveal what you've

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Speaker 3: been concerned about and what's been working, what's not working,

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Speaker 3: and you're vulnerable with your therapist. And we've needed this

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Speaker 3: because now we understand the weaknesses, we understand the strengths,

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Speaker 3: we understand the rod much better. And maybe this is

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Speaker 3: what we need instead of the dialogue, don't we Maybe

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Speaker 3: we need an inquiry into the health mm hmm, maybe

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Speaker 3: another inquiry into something else. Maybe those are what we need. Yes,

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Speaker 3: it's gonna cost a lot of money, but it's also

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Speaker 3: going to reveal a lot and may help some of

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Speaker 3: the good officers. We have to go after those that

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Speaker 3: are corrupt because it's not just the SAPs that is infiltrated.

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Speaker 3: Will be naive of us to think this is the

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Speaker 3: only organization that is compromised. Oh no, it is not. Sample.

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Speaker 3: You're calling us from Pretoria. What are your thoughts? Good morning,

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Speaker 3: example social go ahead.

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Speaker 6: Yes, look, Clement, I think it was quite interesting, you know,

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Speaker 6: having observed the the Portfolio Committee as well as the

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Speaker 6: Malanga Commission. But my observation is that when it comes

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Speaker 6: to the Portfolio Committee, I think the manner in which

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Speaker 6: they've then with the other witnesses that appeared before them,

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Speaker 6: and with General Transum Kannazi it was a bit different

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Speaker 6: because with General Kanazi they give me a time, you know,

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Speaker 6: to express his view, to express his position or evidence,

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Speaker 6: but with it was completely difference. And what strikes me

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Speaker 6: yesterday it was when Jeneral Kannazi admitted that he met

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Speaker 6: Omatralla in Deban and.

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Speaker 3: He didn't reveal that in the beginning, revealed.

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Speaker 6: That, yes, he didn't reveal that in the beginning, and

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Speaker 6: his position yesterday was that Omatralla. He was a in

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Speaker 6: format but I'm saying, Clement, what is good for the

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Speaker 6: whats good for the goals is good for the gander.

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Speaker 6: So generously Bier did mention that he met at some

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Speaker 6: point as well, and for the very same reason. It

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Speaker 6: appears that members of Parliament they accepted General Konnazi meeting

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Speaker 6: of Matralla, But it was completely different story when General

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Speaker 6: Ba expresses the very same view and the manor in

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Speaker 6: which they expressed. Even if at some point in General

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Speaker 6: Quanazi he did not present any evidence, you know, he

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Speaker 6: played would rather at some point he would not all

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Speaker 6: his I'm not saying all he was not presenting evidence,

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Speaker 6: but at some point he will play the man rather

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Speaker 6: than play the ball, you know. And classic a typical

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Speaker 6: case in point was when he was dealing with the

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Speaker 6: matter of member of Parliament. I think it's mister Adams,

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Speaker 6: you know, I think it quite surprising that he played

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Speaker 6: the manday rather than pay.

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Speaker 3: The going to school is very important, it's very important.

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Speaker 6: Something of that sort.

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Speaker 3: He is.

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Speaker 6: I think he is too a little bit below the

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Speaker 6: belt by, you know, playing the man. So I find

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Speaker 6: it very and surprising the man in which they will

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Speaker 6: interact with him as opposed to other members or witnesses

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Speaker 6: that appear before the committee. I think that's all I

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Speaker 6: wanted to Do.

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Speaker 3: You think that they owed him that level of respect because,

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Speaker 3: as you can imagine, they think of him as a hero,

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Speaker 3: and maybe rightly so, given what he has revealed. He

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Speaker 3: told he took the bold step of holding a press

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Speaker 3: briefing that revealed a lot today, which was very important

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Speaker 3: for us as a country to understand. And maybe the

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Speaker 3: committee feels we can't treat him the same as the

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Speaker 3: other people that are, you know, very much compromised, and

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of evidence to that effect. Do you

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Speaker 3: think they owed him that respect because of what he

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Speaker 3: has done on the sixth of July last year, No.

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Speaker 6: No, Clement, I think that if that is the case,

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Speaker 6: then it simply means that they've made it the country.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, if then they have to give me that respect,

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Speaker 6: simply mean that other people look at me. There is formality,

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Speaker 6: but they've already judged them. They're guilty of the charges

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Speaker 6: of the accusation.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: In fact, he agreed with you himself. Let me play

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Speaker 3: it lip. Thank you for your calling Pretoria at Tzepo.

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Speaker 3: To your point, listen to what General Kannazi said about

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Speaker 3: his reflections on how the committee has conducted its work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no thanks.

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Speaker 8: I'm not a parliamentarian, so I would not necessarily Maybe

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Speaker 8: it might be wrong for me to judge the proceedings,

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Speaker 8: but indeed I've been observing, been worried at times on

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Speaker 8: the posture and the attitude that I see on some

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Speaker 8: of the members in Parliament that seems to precharge things.

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Speaker 8: My understanding is that the committee's job is to listen

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Speaker 8: to evidence probe, but not make conclusion on their own

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Speaker 8: that certain things are wrong or certain individuals are wrong.

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Speaker 8: So it is that which was a bit of a

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Speaker 8: concern to me, because if you recalled back onto the

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Speaker 8: clips of those sittings, he would have found such instances.

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Speaker 8: But other than that, it's I think it's been encouraging

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Speaker 8: to see parliament a specialties at a committee to work

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Speaker 8: these long hours. And I must, I must take my

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Speaker 8: head off from the committee members because at times you'll

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Speaker 8: go to the gym and you'll come back and they're

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Speaker 8: still you're still sitting, and you'll fall asleep, you wake

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Speaker 8: up and you're still sitting. And I thought never seen

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Speaker 8: Parliament work this this hard.

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Speaker 3: That was his reaction, reflecting on the work of the

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Speaker 3: committee so far. That listener also raised an issue about

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Speaker 3: the Case and Police commission I'm meeting with Kate Matala

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Speaker 3: and why the kas and Commissioner was not honest about that? Well,

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Speaker 3: not honest, but he left out that detail in the

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Speaker 3: beginning when he testified before the committee. And there are

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Speaker 3: a lot of witnesses that have chosen to leave out

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Speaker 3: certain details. I mean even Shadrack Sabia didn't tell us

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Speaker 3: about the bed day party he had where Kate Matala

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Speaker 3: was there? Was it not in Too Molly, I was

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Speaker 3: in too Molle General Sintumula who mentioned it and then

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Speaker 3: Sibia then commented on it was asked about it. So

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Speaker 3: even in this case when the Cases and Police Commissioner

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Speaker 3: first appeared before the ad hoc Committee and even at

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Speaker 3: the Malanga, if I'm not mistaken, he never mentioned that

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Speaker 3: he's met with Kate Macala before. And of course he

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Speaker 3: had his reasons. I think he met under the guise

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Speaker 3: of I'm going to help you with your contract, but

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Speaker 3: actually he wanted to get some information about Shadrack Sabia

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Speaker 3: and other corrupt allerged the corrupt cops in the SAPs.

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Speaker 3: But he was asked yesterday, why did you not tell

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Speaker 3: us in the beginning about your meeting with kat Matcala.

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Speaker 3: This is how he dealt with that.

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Speaker 8: When I appeared before this adult committee, I was presenting

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Speaker 8: in the main the incidents that are prohibiting the police

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Speaker 8: from executing their duties, where we believe the minister is

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Speaker 8: enabled these people to.

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Speaker 2: To block the police investigations.

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Speaker 8: And of course not the minister doing the bad things,

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Speaker 8: but the people that are doing the bad things, police

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Speaker 8: officers and some of them within the entire rety chain

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Speaker 8: of justice system, officials that are participating on this matter.

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Speaker 8: The meeting of kat Matlala, we did not see it

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Speaker 8: as a need to present it because it was a

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Speaker 8: meeting that was helping the investigation to uncover some truth

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Speaker 8: about that which.

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Speaker 2: The team in Howtan was investigating.

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Speaker 8: So kat Matlala when he met with me in that meeting,

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Speaker 8: he was afraid of the people that was talking about

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Speaker 8: and he made it clear that what is sharing with

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Speaker 8: me and that in a straight language you would refer

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Speaker 8: to as niching to people. So he was giving out

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Speaker 8: information that would have compromised the safety. So he was

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Speaker 8: giving out information that if it were to come out

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Speaker 8: his maybe his life and his family would be would

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Speaker 8: be at risk. What what I like, That's why we

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Speaker 8: did not communicate. But what became evident to that is

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Speaker 8: that the person who facilitated.

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Speaker 2: The meeting, Jarosnona, when.

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Speaker 8: He appeared before Matlanga Commission.

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Speaker 2: He was afraid to name those names.

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Speaker 8: And when when Kat appeared before this commission and introduced

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Speaker 8: that meeting, I was not in a country. When I

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Speaker 8: became aware of it, I then send the what'sapp message.

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Speaker 2: I have tried to phone Gerousnona.

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Speaker 8: He didn't answer the phone when I send him a

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Speaker 8: message to outline what the meeting is about. The same

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Speaker 8: message that after sending to Snora, I shared with yourself,

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Speaker 8: Siner concent.

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Speaker 9: On the y is we will will ask for that.

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Speaker 9: If it's possible, we'll ask for that. Those What's up

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Speaker 9: messages to be flighted. But can continue to me and.

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Speaker 8: That's what I can say, then, choice to I've indicated

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Speaker 8: why didn't I introduce their meetings? You know that I

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Speaker 8: did not see the need of that meeting to be

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Speaker 8: discussed before this commission because this committee, because.

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Speaker 9: Sorry, general to interrupt the the the WhatsApp copy is

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Speaker 9: in art copy I think before honorable members Chair.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the latter.

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Speaker 9: From Sonona's attorney, so you can refer you can refer

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Speaker 9: to a general thinking.

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Speaker 8: Okay, I I still feel that kat Matlalla was used

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Speaker 8: by people to try and paint a picture that as

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Speaker 8: a person who looks like a bad person. But he

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Speaker 8: also met with me and as a result people to

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Speaker 8: start questioning my credibility.

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Speaker 3: M hm. So that's how he responded to it, calling

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Speaker 3: from Centurion good morning.

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Speaker 10: Money to always well my comments. It's like I would

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Speaker 10: like to see the Machander Commission continue even because this investigation.

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Speaker 11: The ad Hoc Committee or longer commission, the Maganal Commission

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Speaker 11: and also the ADOC Committee so that it deals with

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Speaker 11: all the departments, the national.

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Speaker 10: Departments, provincial departments, even in the local municipalities, to to

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Speaker 10: deeply investigate the corruption that is taking place. Because this

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Speaker 10: corruption it's not only taking insacts, it's not taking place

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Speaker 10: in terus of it's taking throughout the country. So if

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Speaker 10: the Macgrander Commission and the ADOC committees, maybe they I

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Speaker 10: don't know, another commission itself to to thoroughly investigate this

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Speaker 10: because I can tell you the corruption in this country.

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Speaker 10: It's so it's happening in each and every diparty, including

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Speaker 10: the private sect. You also go there because people are

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Speaker 10: afraid to speak, to lose their jobs, to lose their

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Speaker 10: carriers in the public and private sector.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Who's gonna be brave enough though to come out

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Speaker 3: and reveal what's happening in other departments? Because then if

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Speaker 3: you just go, yeah, let's just investigate other departments, that's

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Speaker 3: too broad and it may take time, and it may

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Speaker 3: be just complex, and it's also very tricky. You can't

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Speaker 3: tell people go risk your job. I mean Jeram Kanazi

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Speaker 3: was able to do that, and maybe he considered the

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Speaker 3: risks that he may be seen as this problematic person.

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Speaker 3: I mean his contract comes to an end, by the way,

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Speaker 3: in March. End of March. This end of this month,

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Speaker 3: the case end Police Commissioner, and he still hasn't received

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Speaker 3: a new contract. The premiere of Cozulu Natal is now concerned.

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Speaker 3: He's written to the National Police Commissioner to say what's

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Speaker 3: going on. We need this man to continue working cases Iran.

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Speaker 3: In fact, yesterday the Commissioner the National Police Commissioner two

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Speaker 3: days ago spoke about this at the ad Hoc Committee

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Speaker 3: and said they're finalizing that contract. But the point here

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Speaker 3: is not everybody's going to be as brave ass I mean,

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Speaker 3: even Samola couldn't hold a briefing and say Sanzoun is

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Speaker 3: busy giving us illegal instructions. Mm hmm, So what do

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Speaker 3: you do? How can we because I agree, I think

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Speaker 3: there is a rot in other organizations and it needs

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Speaker 3: to be exposed in the same way that the rot

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Speaker 3: in the SAPs has been exposed. But we're going to

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Speaker 3: need someone to be brave enough to blow that whistle.

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Speaker 3: But we live in a country where it's even dangerous

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Speaker 3: to blow the whistle. So what do we do? Mhm,

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Speaker 3: it's ten thirty two.

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Speaker 2: Your voice, your station, your barth in line both as all.

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Speaker 3: On seven notes twenty three minutes before ten outlag. This

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Speaker 3: is the seven or to you open line. We're taking

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Speaker 3: your calls, your what's ups as well. Reflecting on the

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Speaker 3: work of the ad hoc Committee, dam Kanazi yesterday returned

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Speaker 3: to the committee as the last witness before the committee

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Speaker 3: then starts its deliberations about the evidence that's come out

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Speaker 3: so far, and then they have to compile a report

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Speaker 3: with findings. But what is your reflection like when you

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Speaker 3: look back at the work of the committee. What do

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Speaker 3: you think were the important moments, what are the bad moments?

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Speaker 3: What are the lessons? As I've said, I think having

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Speaker 3: kept Matlala testified before the committee was quite key. I

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Speaker 3: thought it was important to hear from the men at

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Speaker 3: the center of all of these allegations, even though I

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Speaker 3: don't think he was necessarily honest or that to the

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Speaker 3: committee members themselves, where you know, quite ready to take

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Speaker 3: him to task. I think a lot of them try,

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Speaker 3: but I think he had he appeared, for instance, at

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Speaker 3: the Madlana Commission, the questioning would have been quite different.

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Speaker 3: And I get it because the Malama Commission has investigative capacity,

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Speaker 3: which is why they're able to get to the nub

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Speaker 3: of issues and contradict even some of the evidence that

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Speaker 3: comes from these guys that are testifying. What are your

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Speaker 3: reflections do you think they've done a good job? Bearing

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Speaker 3: in mind that these are politicians, of course, so you

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Speaker 3: will obviously get to a point where you see and

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Speaker 3: experience political grandstanding. But broadly speaking, have they helped this

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Speaker 3: country through these witnesses? Understand the rot in the criminal

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Speaker 3: justice system or in the SAPs to be more specific.

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Speaker 3: Let's go to your WhatsApps on seven two seven, O

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Speaker 3: two and seven or two.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Clement.

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Speaker 12: Well, except for the showmanship and drama about politicians in

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Speaker 12: the adult committee, they helped us to realize one thing

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Speaker 12: because we always knew that there was something wrong with

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Speaker 12: the police, but we thought whatever was wrong was confined

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Speaker 12: to the local police station. But the committee and the

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Speaker 12: inquiries has helped us to know that actually the road

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Speaker 12: comes from the top the other way around. I always

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Speaker 12: thought it was from the local police. They're the ones

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Speaker 12: who were corrupted, but the whole the old system from

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Speaker 12: the top is this is rotten.

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Speaker 2: This is covered from Victoria.

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Speaker 13: Good morning Lement, Patia from Spabu. Yes, after we have

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Speaker 13: heard what was going on in police in how then

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Speaker 13: I think, which is now wait for a report and recommendations,

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Speaker 13: because let's not be naive. This from problem is the

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Speaker 13: whole country. It's so I would like to see how

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Speaker 13: they're going to clean these generals and lieutenants. I think

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Speaker 13: there's just too many of them, so that maybe there

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Speaker 13: will be some confidence from the public after the cleaning.

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Speaker 14: One inclement element, but you know General mcconnas, you know

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Speaker 14: his last testiment. I mean he managed to say off

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Speaker 14: all these allegations that they were put before against you,

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Speaker 14: and I mean meeting with Madlan. It's so understandable to

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Speaker 14: say he took Matlana as an informant and the end

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Speaker 14: of the day they hit.

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Speaker 2: These things.

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Speaker 14: They tried to but the how the room so that

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Speaker 14: there will be evidence that they are not colledlyding withazes

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Speaker 14: that full job and yes, we need to be grateful

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Speaker 14: to have such patrios.

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Speaker 2: That's now thanks.

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Speaker 15: Morning morning, Clement. Or when the when the ad hocs started,

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Speaker 15: I really had confidence in them, I at hope because

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Speaker 15: I was going back to Matlanka. The president could go

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Speaker 15: around it and just not implemented because it's not a

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Speaker 15: Chapter nine institution, so it's not really binding binding on

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Speaker 15: the president. But with with the ad hoc is a

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Speaker 15: parliamentary process. Parlament is an institution that's recognized by the constitution,

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Speaker 15: so there's no way the president would go around and

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Speaker 15: not implemented. It has a binding effect, the recommendations and

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Speaker 15: the report that is.

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Speaker 2: But with Madanga, the president, I just I mean.

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Speaker 15: Look at this onto report, look at the public protector

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Speaker 15: state of comfort.

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Speaker 2: What happened? So I really had hope.

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Speaker 15: But yeah, no, they just became political prince.

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Speaker 16: That for you. The proof that he met Masarner's the

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Speaker 16: proof is the one that is that is chilling. We

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Speaker 16: see it in much younger people don't want to read

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Speaker 16: there what's happened? Call their names out, Clement, You must

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Speaker 16: remember that this is the kind of Muconner's very smart

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Speaker 16: police office. That's the proof today that we have that

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Speaker 16: they met, and some people they are scared of reading

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Speaker 16: their names of the people that they were snished on

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Speaker 16: that what's up?

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Speaker 3: So it was quite shocking in fact when Shbery, the

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Speaker 3: head of the Hawks say and was refusing to name

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Speaker 3: a particular person who is very powerful and has an

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Speaker 3: influence even in the SAPs, who is not even in

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Speaker 3: the SAPs, I mean as a police officer, the old job.

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Speaker 3: That's why similar when he was asked about this in

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Speaker 3: parliament yet two days ago he said, as an officer,

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Speaker 3: we expect you to go after these people who are

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Speaker 3: problematic in society. Can you imagine the head of the

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Speaker 3: Hawks and Houting is scared. I what about us then,

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Speaker 3: as mere civilians? The head of the Hawks and Routings

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Speaker 3: head of organized crime, not the Hawks head of organized crime.

400
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Speaker 3: Mister Shibiri is scared to mention a name of someone

401
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Speaker 3: who is dangerous. Genome Kanazi yesterday was just mentioning the names.

402
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Speaker 3: He also even told the ad Hoc I'm surprised that

403
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Speaker 3: there are people, top officials of the SAPs who are

404
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Speaker 3: scared to even mention people who are dangerous out there.

405
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Speaker 3: I mean, what is this. Listen to what jeneroal Kanazi

406
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Speaker 3: said about Shadrag Sibia because the question of course is

407
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Speaker 3: is there enough evidence to take shad drug Siba down

408
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Speaker 3: If indeed they're so convinced that he was working with

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Speaker 3: these criminal elements, Are.

410
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Speaker 2: You satisfied that you have sufficient evidence against Tenant General

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Speaker 2: Shadrug Sabia to have him arrested.

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Speaker 8: Change from from whether the keys I opened and cased.

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Speaker 2: And I'm confident with that and from what I get

414
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Speaker 2: from the team working how doing is what good information

415
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Speaker 2: that they.

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Speaker 3: Have for it?

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Speaker 15: In your opinion, the Minister of Police sends and can

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Speaker 15: you commit a crime?

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Speaker 2: What crime would that be?

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Speaker 17: Was his order to just spand the b k t

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Speaker 17: T illegal in terms of the law.

422
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Speaker 8: From me as a complainer and it was a legal

423
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Speaker 8: in terms of the law, what law defeating the edge

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Speaker 8: of justice?

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Speaker 2: It is actually that led into what transferred after that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what he said. And then he came out

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Speaker 3: and he was asked about Kat. But Lala in the

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Speaker 3: biggest scheme of things, how big is he in the

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Speaker 3: cattels And he seems to believe that, in fact, Kat

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Speaker 3: is just a small fish.

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Speaker 8: The bigger fish out there coming because of the investigation.

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Speaker 8: But the one famous person that is known as Osmu's

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Speaker 8: Kat Machallah. He was placing himself who was trying to

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Speaker 8: replace one of the big five, but he was actually

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00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 8: a proxy of one of them before. So in this

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00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 8: scheme of things, of the pig five, he's nothing. He's

437
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Speaker 8: an an starter. So he's a small fish in a pole.

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Speaker 8: Actually he knows it himself. He knows it himself. They

439
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Speaker 8: are big, big bras that generals are afraid to call

440
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 8: your names about.

441
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 5: Mm.

442
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, really really really interesting. More of your what's apps one, seven,

443
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: two and seven or two?

444
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 17: I could in clement, Yeah, but we need to be fair,

445
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 17: elament Corners.

446
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 18: He gave reasons for why he met Kat. Context metters.

447
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 18: Don't just take it at the top he gave reasons

448
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 18: why he met Kat. It's not the one that initiated

449
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 18: to meet Kat, you know, so don't put it as

450
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 18: if he was the wrong thing.

451
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 2: As a police officer.

452
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 18: He did what he needed to be done, you know,

453
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 18: to make sure that he get information from the guy.

454
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: We need to be fair.

455
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 18: It's like you are just criticizing for the sake of criticizing.

456
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: Goners. What are you talking about. Have you been listening

457
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: to the same show. I don't know what you're talking about,

458
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: because nobody criticized anything there. We said. They asked him

459
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 3: a question about why he didn't reveal the meeting in

460
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 3: the first place, which is a legitimate question to ask.

461
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: I even said that he met kid, probably under the

462
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: guise of helping him with the contract, but he knew

463
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: that he needed some information, which he got about Shadrack

464
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 3: Sabia and other criminal elements. So I'm not sure. Maybe

465
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 3: you mishead us there. So just take a listen to

466
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 3: the podcast, you know, publish it after ten o'clock to

467
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 3: hear how we framed it in the beginning. That may help.

468
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 19: Morning Clement, head of Comedy.

469
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 20: I think all those politicians who were grandstanding, you know,

470
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 20: but the Madlanga Commission. I'd rather watch every evening when

471
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 20: I get home, I would watch.

472
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 19: The Madlanga Commission instead of the head of commedy, the

473
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 19: head of comment Matty.

474
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: I just watch snippets. You know, I will not spend

475
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: a whole hour, hour and a half watching.

476
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 19: The committee by our world, the Madlanga, because they the witnesses,

477
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 19: get grilled, evidence is actually put in front of them.

478
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: Talkde and Rainbow, Clement.

479
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 21: What I found very interesting yesterday was the letter from prison,

480
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 21: the leader hand written letter confessing and spelling the beans

481
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 21: on what get discussed in prison. That I found rather interesting,

482
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 21: Thanks Clement.

483
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: Natasha, Yeah, Natasha. But then you know, because there's a

484
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: lot here that they have. I mean even that remember

485
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: that recording. There's a I think one there's a recording

486
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 3: of the meeting when he met with Kat. I think

487
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: he said he's willing to avail that to the committee.

488
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: But also two after kat was arrested, there is like

489
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 3: a hours and hours of recordings that actually were also

490
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 3: used at the Madalina Commission where Kat is talking about

491
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: that's why we know about the money that Kaed gave

492
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 3: to Richard Shibiri, the head of organized crime in Houding,

493
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 3: Kat spoke about these things. But then when Kat appeared

494
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 3: before the Madleenal Commission, he said, no, they've doctored his voice.

495
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 3: It's AI. You know, he's trying to dispute the authenticity

496
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 3: of that recording. So even with this letter that you

497
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 3: speak about Natasha, I suspect that we may get to

498
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: a point where he also comes back and says no,

499
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 3: I didn't write that. I just hope the police can

500
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 3: get experts who can prove, even to Kat and all

501
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 3: these other guys, that that recording is legit and it

502
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 3: wasn't doctored. Huh. Maybe they must get some experts who

503
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: can look at those recordings and figure out if really

504
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 3: there's the AI generated or not. But Kate mcala now

505
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 3: probably feels ish I shed too much. Maybe I need

506
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: to hold a little bit. Oh he could have a point.

507
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I think this can be answered

508
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 3: by experts. We check the recordings and decide what to do.

509
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: Morning Clement and team.

510
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 7: My view, the Maginal Commission really opened our eyes and

511
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 7: the Parliamentary sitting really opened our eyes in terms of

512
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 7: what the real corruption is. My view, only partners should

513
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 7: follow suit and commissions be made. Obviously it's a waste

514
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 7: of a lot of money is going to be needed

515
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 7: to be band there. But I think the Health department

516
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 7: if almost every day there's cancels around that, so maybe

517
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 7: that's that should be the next department that the Commission

518
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 7: will inquiries done. Sheldon Victoria, thanks, have a good.

519
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 22: Day morning, chairman. What I like about cons He even

520
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 22: warned those parliamentarians and he told them, don't mix yourselves

521
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 22: up with the wrong people, because we always see you're

522
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 22: mixing yourself up with the wrong people.

523
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: Thank you, good.

524
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 17: Morning teaming for me.

525
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 23: As far as Jename Quana's concern his posture and how

526
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 23: he answered, how he articulated everything for me, he tells me,

527
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 23: gives me that thing that you know what when somebody

528
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 23: knows what they're talking about interesting and the true, the

529
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 23: true thing that they know.

530
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 17: About what they're talking about.

531
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 23: He was not trusting as Stross as trying to figure

532
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 23: out whatever.

533
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 17: No, he he he knew what he was talking about,

534
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 17: He understood what he was there for.

535
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 5: For me.

536
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 17: That that's a takeaway from me from Quanas mm hmmm.

537
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: And by the way, the other listener who said was

538
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 3: warning the members of parliam meant to be careful on

539
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 3: who they mix themselves up with. Remember what he said

540
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 3: yesterday about General Khan and the AFF leader Julius Malema.

541
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 8: This is an indication of the influence and the access

542
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 8: that Gerald Khan has politicians.

543
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: So he prayed about it when he told me. To

544
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: what extent I did not know. But as you receive.

545
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 8: Information and you get to realize that this men he

546
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 8: is indeed connected to many politicians.

547
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 3: I said.

548
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 8: The lead off for the first time for me to

549
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 8: sit with him is because it's Khan that took me

550
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 8: to co admit with him.

551
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: Well, obviously he.

552
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 8: Had his concerns about the rallies and everything they were

553
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 8: going to have there, which he would have met me

554
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 8: in anyway without via Khan, but forever reason can arrange

555
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 8: the meeting so that we could meet and talk about

556
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 8: the concern that they were heaving as a party. But

557
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 8: that was an indication according to what I observed, that

558
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 8: the man is very close to politicians.

559
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 3: See that's what happened there when he was trying to

560
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 3: also ultimately then warn the MPs just to be careful

561
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 3: of who they mix up with. But you can see

562
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 3: that there are senior cops who are closed with some politicians.

563
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 3: That's not to say that there's criminality between them, but

564
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 3: I think the point he was making is sometimes then

565
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 3: when the cops themselves are tainted, these top cops, then

566
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 3: it may affect your credibility or your reputation as a politician.

567
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 2: Your voice, your station, your open line on seveneen it is.

568
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 3: Going up to two minutes before ten outlock. Let's wrap

569
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 3: up the seven open line with your what'sapp voice notes.

570
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 24: Money morning jam uh a comedy cham. It was all

571
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 24: the show of this politician, who's who?

572
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 3: Hey, what is what?

573
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: I didn't get anything from them. All I could see

574
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: was people shouting to.

575
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 24: The witnesses as even Jam Connors was saying, they were

576
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 24: just shouting.

577
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: They were already they have proven people guilty.

578
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 24: And so then my DAMA commission, that's why the truth

579
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 24: is coming out about the kept think came.

580
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 6: And I think.

581
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: That's why even in his.

582
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 24: Case now in his card, he's saying he's going to

583
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 24: challenge those tapes that are there, it's going to challenge them.

584
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 24: He's going to do I think they call it a

585
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,720
Speaker 24: try within a try to dispute all those things.

586
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: So we'll see from there.

587
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 25: Clement and the listeners. What I loved about him yesterday

588
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 25: it was when he went for mister Adams. When he

589
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 25: went from mister Adams, Hey, yeah, mister Adams just went

590
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 25: for a hiding. They care.

591
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 3: In fact, here's what he said about mister Adams yesterday.

592
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 8: Well, someone says, must give us a room, all our

593
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 8: chair members. I was watching mister Adams when he was testifying.

594
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 8: When he's asked to state something, whether it is in

595
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 8: fact or not, he doesn't want.

596
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 2: He wanted to explain.

597
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 8: That's why I'm even throwing attention that the men's city

598
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 8: and he says I was wrong about Cumando onto the

599
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 8: undressed and I come back, No, no, no, I was

600
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 8: not wrong.

601
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 3: I was right.

602
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: So how can you be This is a sign of

603
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: the chair members that school is very important. You have

604
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 2: to learn to read.

605
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 8: If you don't read, you miss things that that's very critical.

606
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 8: So everything written in that statement is his own mind.

607
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 8: That's what he thinks about. It's not the things that

608
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 8: you know is fact. He says that him and his

609
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 8: wife were discussing and say the only reason for this

610
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 8: press conference is this. He made a conclusion already. I'm

611
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 8: glad he's not sitting amongst you here to ask questions.

612
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 8: To remember, the witnesses are coming here because He already

613
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 8: precharged that which happened on the site of to right

614
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 8: as a member of Parliament.

615
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 3: M It's time out, Luck,