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Speaker 1: The Money Show on seven Monday to Friday, six to

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Speaker 1: a PM.

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Speaker 2: Well, finally, it looks like the Public Investment Corporation is

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Speaker 2: about to do something to sort out its unlisted investment portfolio.

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Speaker 2: It's now saying it's creating a panel of experts to

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Speaker 2: advise it on what to do with the companies it

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Speaker 2: owns that aren't listed. Kaya Satollis, the independent analyst, joins

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Speaker 2: us now, KaiA, a good evening, thanks for your time.

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Speaker 2: What's the count? Forty percent of these investments seem to

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Speaker 2: be in some kind of trouble. I mean, this panel

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Speaker 2: has quite a long list of things to do.

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Speaker 3: Gribbling and gribbling to the listeners. So yes, it is

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Speaker 3: indeed a problematic portfolio. And I think the context is

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Speaker 3: quite important in that. Obviously, when you speak of the PC,

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Speaker 3: we're speaking about it a three trillion rand entiteam and

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Speaker 3: within the three to the three trillion rand, the unlisted

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Speaker 3: portfolio makes up just four and a half percent and

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Speaker 3: five percented best of that portfolio. However, it seems to

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Speaker 3: be the place where the biggest headaches tend to be

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Speaker 3: for the PC, particularly when you look at the quality

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Speaker 3: of the investments that they've undertaken since they were put together,

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Speaker 3: and the type of impairment that they tend to have

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Speaker 3: to record in relation to those investments. So it looked

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Speaker 3: like the model that they've used for a very long

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Speaker 3: time to sort of try and identify the best investment

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Speaker 3: opportunities and hope for the best hasn't really worked out.

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Speaker 3: So the idea of maybe getting additional expertise in making

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Speaker 3: or or adding to those investment decisions might indeed be

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Speaker 3: helping them do better quality decision making in the long run.

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Speaker 2: I mean, some of it is because from the outside

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Speaker 2: we don't get to understand the investment case. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the daybreak scandal that was the chicken producer and at

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Speaker 2: a disaster, there were public warnings, the pic the owner

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Speaker 2: did nothing. The Io investment, we all remember the history

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Speaker 2: of that, the art of court settlement in the end,

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Speaker 2: I mean, could this lead to a major change in strategy?

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Speaker 3: Look, I think one of the biggest problems is that

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Speaker 3: they are listed investments. It's much easier to sort of

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Speaker 3: math performance versus what we see because you and I

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Speaker 3: can just check what the share price is, and it's

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Speaker 3: very difficult to sort of hide what the gremlins might

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Speaker 3: be in relation to that with the unlisted investment space.

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Speaker 3: It must be acknowledged that the PIC has been very

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Speaker 3: clear that it doesn't simply seek absolute economic returns. It

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Speaker 3: sort of tries to find economic and some element of

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Speaker 3: social or developmental returns. In other words, the decision making

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Speaker 3: in relation to the assets that it takes over in

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Speaker 3: the under said investment space is not linient. It's not straightforward.

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Speaker 3: So if somebody has to look at it from the

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Speaker 3: outside and say, well, actually I can get better returns

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Speaker 3: some and so therefore let's not do this, the PSC

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Speaker 3: doesn't always make the call, given the dual nature of

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Speaker 3: the mandate that they have, So that's part of the

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Speaker 3: problem that you're seeing them and of course by the

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Speaker 3: time we ged to hear but information for companies like

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Speaker 3: Daybreak for example, you're assume that the PSC, with its

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Speaker 3: rights of un access documentation and you know, financial statements,

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Speaker 3: they should have been able to pick up and identify

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Speaker 3: these issues long before they make it to the public domain.

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Speaker 3: It is in the process of managing those red flags

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Speaker 3: where clearly the system has not been perfected yet.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot going on there. Cabello records,

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Speaker 2: so the chief Investment Officer, he had been on suspension.

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Speaker 2: There was an amicable parting of the ways of the

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Speaker 2: weekend and now we have this action. Do you get

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Speaker 2: a sense maybe someone's sort of beginning to finally get

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Speaker 2: on top of things.

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Speaker 3: It's difficult to know, because I think if you look

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Speaker 3: at the past ten years, this particular, we've had maybe

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Speaker 3: four different versions of the PC. You had a system

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Speaker 3: where there was a split in the roles of Chief

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Speaker 3: Investment Officer versus the CEO, and then that somehow consolidated

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Speaker 3: into one role. The Particle Mission comes back and says, well,

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Speaker 3: that's chaotic, let us split it. It gets split, Cabelo

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Speaker 3: takes over, and now he's gone, and now is being

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Speaker 3: split in many different ways. So the PIC has literally

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Speaker 3: spent the past decade trying to find an answer to

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Speaker 3: the question of how it should really make investment decisions,

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Speaker 3: who should be the authority on those Right now it's

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Speaker 3: yet another transition whether this new proposed model of three

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Speaker 3: discrete CIO is going to help them do better decision

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Speaker 3: making with us of United again.

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Speaker 2: I think it was eight months ago that inner go

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Speaker 2: I Guana, the Finance Minister, said publicly he wanted the

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Speaker 2: pi C to act his deputy. He's got two deputies,

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Speaker 2: but David Massondo is the chair of the pi C

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Speaker 2: and it's taken eight months to actually do something. I mean, maybe,

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Speaker 2: if I'm being feeling charitable, they were doing things behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes that we couldn't see. But eight months is

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Speaker 2: still a long time to decide actually, no, we have

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Speaker 2: to do this.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 4: It's very difficult because if you recall, the one thing

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Speaker 4: from the Partic Commission that the politicians decided to pretend

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Speaker 4: had not been said, was a simple question of why

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Speaker 4: somebody from National Treasury, the Deputy Finance Minister at any

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Speaker 4: point in time, gets to chair the PC in the

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Speaker 4: first place.

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Speaker 3: And it's really the end of government's inability to detach

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Speaker 3: the political you know, elements into the PSC government structure

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Speaker 3: that actually still persist in this particular model. Now that

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Speaker 3: is not to say that David Massando is a bed chairperson,

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Speaker 3: but the principles that some party commissioner spoken about to say, look,

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Speaker 3: the responsibility of this institution is to ensure that the

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Speaker 3: best return are achieved based on whatever manday there is,

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Speaker 3: and the best people should be there. We shouldn't have

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Speaker 3: political deployees because now suddenly you have to then deal

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Speaker 3: with the skepticism that you are always going to be

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Speaker 3: skeptical when politicians are given government responsibilities, especially when so

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Speaker 3: much amounts of money are involved, and especially when issues

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Speaker 3: relating to the understand investment in particular keep coming back

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Speaker 3: and escalating. Just the nature of the government's leptos that

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Speaker 3: they it doesn't help.

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Speaker 2: Guys Atola, thanks so much, the Independent Analyst. So many

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Speaker 2: questions still about what's going on at the PIC eighteen after.

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Speaker 5: Six Steven X and at.

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Speaker 2: Stephen any reason for hope while we were talking about

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Speaker 2: the p C Van.

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Speaker 6: Allen has an injury that it hasn't really changed. Stephen,

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Speaker 6: I'm trying. I'm really really trying New Zealand one hundred

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Speaker 6: and sixty nine for actually one hundred and thirty seven

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Speaker 6: for the loss of one. You know that their victory

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Speaker 6: target is one hundred and seventy. Their net run rates

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Speaker 6: is ridiculous. They need just thirty three more runs in

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Speaker 6: fifty four for me the issues, they have enough balls

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Speaker 6: even if they take it one run at a time,

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Speaker 6: Even if Allen is like, actually, let me go sit

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Speaker 6: upstairs while I wait for the final South Africa will

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Speaker 6: sitch at and wonder what could have been When it

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Speaker 6: comes to this game. Cahus Rabada so far the only

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Speaker 6: bowler to take a wicket, but Shugrikonrad is sitting there

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Speaker 6: and is wondering what should have been done. We were

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Speaker 6: looking at how South Africa had done in the twenty

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Speaker 6: twenty three final. Yes there were lessons from that that

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Speaker 6: look like they had applied to this tournament. But when

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Speaker 6: it matters most we didn't make it count.

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Speaker 2: D twenty as a lottery Talke Thanks nineteen after six

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Speaker 2: The Lney Show.

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Speaker 1: With Stephen Cruthers Live on ninety two point seven and

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Speaker 1: one O six FM.

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Speaker 5: Streaming on the Prime Media Plus Now and DStv channel

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Speaker 5: eight five six.

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Speaker 2: Well Worth reporting today it's margins are under a little

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Speaker 2: bit of pressure. I mean despite the fact it's turnover

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Speaker 2: grow by five point four percent, it's headline earnings per

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Speaker 2: share up by nearly ten percent in the half year

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Speaker 2: to the end of December, so still strong results. The

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Speaker 2: CEO it willis is Roy Bagattini. Roy, good evening and

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Speaker 2: thanks so much for your time. You've been investing in

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Speaker 2: your stores, in your products and your mechanisms as well.

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Speaker 2: Is that what's Is it that spending that's putting your

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Speaker 2: margins under a bit of pressure during this period?

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Speaker 7: No, thanks and good evening, seven into the listeners. No,

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Speaker 7: I mean, I think there are a couple of things

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Speaker 7: that come into play there. Obviously, we've been making fairly

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Speaker 7: significant investments, a lot of it in stores and front

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Speaker 7: end consumer facing sort of the areas of the business.

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Speaker 7: But simultaneously we've been making some big investments in our infrastructure,

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Speaker 7: our distribution center in mid Rand. We've put about one

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Speaker 7: point seven billion into that in modernizing and expanding that,

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Speaker 7: and that obviously plays through a little bit into a

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Speaker 7: short term.

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Speaker 2: Drag on margins. Your lower margin categories have been increasing

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Speaker 2: their sales volumes, and from what you said today, you've

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Speaker 2: been doing some promoting, quite heavy promoting. Is there a

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Speaker 2: slight sort of shift in strategy. Are you maybe trying

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Speaker 2: to attract slightly different customers, maybe widen the appeal of it.

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Speaker 8: No, in fact, not at all.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I think in our foods business, you know,

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Speaker 7: we remain very focused on the value proposition overall. Yes,

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Speaker 7: I mean we have been investing in price, you know,

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Speaker 7: for several years now, and in fact about a billion

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Speaker 7: rand over the last three years or so, but it's

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Speaker 7: very targeted, very specific in certain categories, and that's to

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Speaker 7: drive obviously a more accessible price point, but there are

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Speaker 7: business cases that go behind that, so you can appreciate

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Speaker 7: that volumes improve and increase and we gain share through

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Speaker 7: that process. You'll see that it's actually in fact paid

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Speaker 7: off very well in the growth that we're achieving. I mean,

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Speaker 7: our foods business is growing quite strongly on a lightful

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Speaker 7: light basis. It is delivering the strongest growth in the market,

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Speaker 7: and you know, we're seeing a further opportunity to do

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Speaker 7: more that, to do more of that in foods. On

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Speaker 7: their paral side as well, we have actually invested in

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Speaker 7: caring inventry, but a major part of our investment in

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Speaker 7: prices come in the kids side. We've seen massive opportunity

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Speaker 7: to grow our market share in kids and baby's a

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Speaker 7: category we know we can compete really well in a

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Speaker 7: place to our strengths, and the investments we've made there

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Speaker 7: has delivered a significant growth. We've in fact increased our

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Speaker 7: volumes over the summer period by about thirty percent and

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Speaker 7: then obviously that plays through to some of the other categories.

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Speaker 7: Find that when she buys for her children, she feels

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Speaker 7: okay to go out and buy for herself as well.

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Speaker 7: So there's a little bit of a halo impact when kids,

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Speaker 7: when they focus on kids. So it's resonating with our customers,

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Speaker 7: and it's also really working for us commercially.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I imagine also, and I'm sure there'll be

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Speaker 2: plenty of science that backs this up. You get children

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Speaker 2: in your stores, or they get used to wearing particular

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Speaker 2: types of clothes, many of them will still buy them

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Speaker 2: when they're older.

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Speaker 7: No, you're absolutely right, and it's sort of I mean,

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Speaker 7: it leads to a bit of a strategy we're busy

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Speaker 7: with at the moment with putting you know, sort of

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Speaker 7: touch shops into play, having wooly touch shops available in

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Speaker 7: school in school grounds, and we're testing this concept and

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Speaker 7: it's it's really resonating obviously with the parents, but particularly

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Speaker 7: with the kids. And by doing this, you know, you

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Speaker 7: sort of are sort of you're building the future Woolie customer.

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Speaker 7: You know that connection, and we're very excited about that.

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Speaker 2: The foot and mouth outbreak having a big impact on

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Speaker 2: meat producers, I know, you'll probably remind us you have

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Speaker 2: higher standards than other retailers. Is it. Are you worried

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Speaker 2: about getting the supplies you need for your customers? I mean,

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Speaker 2: might you have to cut back on a couple of

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Speaker 2: lines for a while, and the price obviously will have

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Speaker 2: an impact too.

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Speaker 9: No.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, I mean a bit of a devastating effect for

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Speaker 7: our industry and particularly for our country's farmers. But I

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Speaker 7: mean availability on our side has not really been affected.

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Speaker 7: We've been able to switch supply from farms and it

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Speaker 7: was to you know that have been affected to those

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Speaker 7: that are not affected, and that's I guess one of

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Speaker 7: the benefits of us having a relatively large exclusive supplier base.

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Speaker 7: But clearly it does impact us from a price perspective

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Speaker 7: and resulting volumes. I mean, for us, unfortunately, prices in

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Speaker 7: meat have gone up by around thirty percent year and year,

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Speaker 7: and that's obviously impacting overall inflation numbers.

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Speaker 10: You know.

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Speaker 7: One of the things we see with US is you know,

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Speaker 7: we're selling about seventy tons less meat per week, which

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Speaker 7: is quite quite a number, but I think everyone's going

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Speaker 7: to face ongoing risk until the entire South African herd

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Speaker 7: has been vaccinated.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is a big number. We've been

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Speaker 2: having lower inflation here we've had interest rate cuts a

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Speaker 2: different story in Australia during the period you've had to

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Speaker 2: discount there too. Is that having an impact on your

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Speaker 2: operations there?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, well you will know that. Actually, I'm quite pleased

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Speaker 7: to be talking to you a little bit about Australia

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Speaker 7: today because usually it's more of a sad it's a

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Speaker 7: much happier story. We've actually turned the corner there and

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Speaker 7: our business in fact is delivering a head of market

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Speaker 7: growth and some really nice profitability to go with it.

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Speaker 7: Notwithstanding the fact that we are sort of promoting in

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Speaker 7: line with what's happening in the market. It is a

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Speaker 7: tough environment. Consumers are under pressure interest rates for going,

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Speaker 7: as you say, in the wrong direction. But you know, nonetheless,

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Speaker 7: I think with the work that we've done in sort

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Speaker 7: of fundamentally transforming that business operating model wise, brands, etc.

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Speaker 7: We're seeing really nice sales growth and significant improved profit

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Speaker 7: growth ahead of top line growth, which is very pleasing.

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Speaker 2: Back here Willy's dash, I mean, growing very strongly. It's

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Speaker 2: up twenty three percent online sales I think was the

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Speaker 2: figure seven point two percent of your entire food operations.

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Speaker 2: How big do you think the proportion of your sales.

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Speaker 2: Is that segment going to be I mean, you conquer

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Speaker 2: twenty three percent forever for Woolies Dash. Do you have

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Speaker 2: a sense of how much of a proportion, how big

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Speaker 2: the sector is going to be out of proportional for

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Speaker 2: your overall food sales.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean it's a great question. I mean, you know, obviously,

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Speaker 7: when we report our dash numbers, they are specifically, you know,

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Speaker 7: and exclusively focused on what comes out of our stores,

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Speaker 7: you know, our own stores. But we also have this

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Speaker 7: concept called Willi's after Doc which actually provides access to

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Speaker 7: the Willies product up until midnight. And we have a

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Speaker 7: you know a relationship with Ubez that then enables us

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Speaker 7: to do that. So when you look at the online

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Speaker 7: or the on demand channel as we call it, we're

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Speaker 7: up at over thirty percent. But to your point around

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Speaker 7: you know, we're around seven percent penetration today. How far

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Speaker 7: and where will it go?

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Speaker 2: You mus?

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Speaker 7: Remember, I mean we're specifically talking about our food's business,

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Speaker 7: the fresh We're a big fresh business, you know, and

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Speaker 7: we're not We're not you know, we're not offering obviously

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Speaker 7: general merchandise and poor chemicals and mops and rooms asign it.

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Speaker 7: He's fundamentally food only, but we do think that we'll

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Speaker 7: continue to grow and I wouldn't be surprised within the

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Speaker 7: next three to five years if we're talking much more

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Speaker 7: around fifteen percent or so.

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Speaker 2: Roy Bagattini this year at will Work. Thank you very

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Speaker 2: much indeed for your time tonight on The Money Show,

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Speaker 2: Good Money Show with Stephen Fluit Sally Keller. We're out

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Speaker 2: of our misery.

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Speaker 11: In more ways than one.

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Speaker 6: We're definitely not going to play the T twenty World

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Speaker 6: Cup final and yous just in New Zealand have qualified

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Speaker 6: for the final with a comprehensive nine requid went over

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Speaker 6: South Africa. They reached their victory target of one hundred

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Speaker 6: and seventy with forty three balls remaining. The assessment, the

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Speaker 6: look back, the concerns, the questions will start, but South

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Speaker 6: Africa for now will not be playing in Sunday's final.

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Speaker 6: New Zealand will find out the opponents tomorrow because that

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Speaker 6: second semi final will see India and England clash together.

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Speaker 2: I'm ganga, thanks for being with us anyway. Twenty seven

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Speaker 2: after six The Money Show, Chris Stewart, porfolio manager at

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Speaker 2: ninety one more tearful matters after the cricket, Chris, what

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Speaker 2: would you call it a semi recovery after yesterday?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, anything's more positive than the cricket by

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Speaker 10: the sound of it. But yeah, we have seen a

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Speaker 10: solid bance in the equity market today. We've seen a

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Speaker 10: solid recovery in the rand. We've seen some recovery and

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Speaker 10: golden precious metal prices. We've seen some semblance of normalcy

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Speaker 10: returning to the oil markets, and we've seen the US open.

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Speaker 2: In the green.

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Speaker 10: So all of that today is good news. Yesterday was

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Speaker 10: very bad news, and I guess tomorrow brings what tomorrow

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Speaker 10: will bring. Unfortunately, at the moment we're a little bit

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Speaker 10: news to Pendent, you know. I guess news that the

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Speaker 10: US will provide secure passage through the straits of Hogma's

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Speaker 10: normalizing to a degree, the passage of oiler gas through

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Speaker 10: that very important network is a positive.

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Speaker 5: Today.

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Speaker 10: We'll see, as I say, what happens tomorrow. There is

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Speaker 10: still quite fluid and you know, still water to pass

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Speaker 10: under the bridge. I think in terms of calling this

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Speaker 10: war over, and I think the markets reactions thus far,

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Speaker 10: you know, notwithstanding yesterday's moves have been fairly sanguine. If

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Speaker 10: i'd painted you this picture a couple of months ago

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Speaker 10: and said, this is what's going to transpire. Will the

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Speaker 10: oil price be eighty dollars.

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Speaker 2: A barrel or higher?

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Speaker 10: You would have probably chosen materially higher. So you know,

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Speaker 10: I think actually we're getting off quite likely thus far.

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Speaker 2: Willie is today. You might have heard some of Roy

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Speaker 2: Buggattini's conversation lots of momentum concerns about margin pressure.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I did, and I mean yeah, there's a common

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Speaker 10: theme really across the three main businesses, the food business,

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Speaker 10: the fashion, beauty and home business in South Africa, and

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Speaker 10: indeed country Road in Australia. You've seen you know, solid

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Speaker 10: turnover numbers out of each of those businesses, probably market

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Speaker 10: beating turnover numbers out of each of those businesses. However,

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Speaker 10: again across the board, reduced GP margins due to you

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Speaker 10: know everything from you know, investing in the business, investing

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Speaker 10: in price channel mix, you know, I guess more lower

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Speaker 10: margin product being sold at the expense of higher margin product,

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Speaker 10: if you like, and that's resulted in GP margins taking

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Speaker 10: away a lot of the good news on the top line,

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Speaker 10: and as a result of that, adjusted headline earnings per

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Speaker 10: share only flatish for the period, although you know, due

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Speaker 10: to good cash conversion, you did see a ten percent

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Speaker 10: kick in the dividend, which I think the market took

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Speaker 10: quite well as well. And you know, all the retailers

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Speaker 10: were breathing a little bit of a sigh of relief

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Speaker 10: today and Willie's joined them with, you know, percent and

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Speaker 10: a half uptick on the day.

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Speaker 2: And then very quickly quilta quite a strong update, stronger

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Speaker 2: than what people were expecting.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 10: I'm a little confounded by the market's reaction to it.

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Speaker 10: I mean, you know, Quilter had pre announced their assets

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Speaker 10: under management and administration. They'd pre announced the net clothes,

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Speaker 10: which obviously in very important metrics for business like that.

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Speaker 10: Today they announced that they would launch one hundred million

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Speaker 10: sterling buyback and increase their dividend payout ratio over time.

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Speaker 10: They've released part of the provision that they were holding

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Speaker 10: for the Ongoing Advice review in the UK. That was

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Speaker 10: basically where they're going to be sanctioned for charging clients

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Speaker 10: for ongoing advice without actually necessarily engaging with them and

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Speaker 10: providing such advice. Outside of that, profits and dividends largely

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Speaker 10: in line, So you know, the news should have been

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Speaker 10: capital returns to shareholder that should have been received positively.

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Speaker 10: The only I guess blot perhaps on today's update to

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Speaker 10: the market was the forward looking outlook for twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 10: guiding that adjusted profit growth would be high single digits

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Speaker 10: to low double digit and I think the market was

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Speaker 10: looking something closer to the teens and that was probably

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Speaker 10: responsible for the three percent i'd set off today.

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Speaker 2: Christ your thanks so much, portfolio manager at ninety one.

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Speaker 2: Just after six thirty the.

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Speaker 1: Money Show seven owns Monday till Friday six to eight pm,

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Speaker 1: fourteen minutes now to seven with the building in DIY

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Speaker 1: retailer Cash Build reporting it was able to increase headline

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Speaker 1: earnings by sixteen percent, revenues up just by three percent.

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Speaker 2: This is for the six months to the end of December,

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Speaker 2: and still it seems quite a difficult environment. Not a

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Speaker 2: lot of construction around at the moment. Bernade jache Is,

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Speaker 2: the CEO at Cash Build Burn, a good evening, Thanks

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Speaker 2: for your time, your revenue for the stores that previously existed,

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Speaker 2: they were only up by one percent. I mean that

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Speaker 2: really shows you how tough this environment is.

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Speaker 8: Indeed, it is quite tough out there, so shedding a

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Speaker 8: bit of light on it, though, is that when you

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Speaker 8: look at our selling price inflation only at point eight percent,

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Speaker 8: that tells you there was a slight, slight volume growth.

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Speaker 2: In those stores.

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Speaker 8: So that's what we're seeing. Is very difficult to grow

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Speaker 8: volumes in your existing stores, and hence we need to

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Speaker 8: expand stores.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you're fifteen news stores, some of them were refurbished.

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Speaker 2: Are they making more of a contribution? I mean, are

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Speaker 2: they sort of doing it for you right now?

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Speaker 12: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: In general they are.

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Speaker 8: You know, there's always one or two that doesn't meet

401
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Speaker 8: your expectations, but in general, they're all doing their feasibilities,

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Speaker 8: and so we're quite pleased with with what the ones

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Speaker 8: we've opened.

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Speaker 2: Cement is a huge product for you, and I know

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Speaker 2: cement prices are quite low. There are a lot of

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Speaker 2: imports at the moment. We've got one or two cement

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Speaker 2: companies trying to sort of recover themselves, some of them

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Speaker 2: doing quite well at that. Are you able to sell

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Speaker 2: locally produced cement? I mean, I presume for you it's

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Speaker 2: incredibly price sensitive. It is.

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Speaker 8: Indeed, you know on that product, there was actually deflation

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Speaker 8: on cement this year in our selling prices of two

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Speaker 8: point six percent. So we as a business actually sell

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Speaker 8: mostly the locally produced cement only in the Western Cape

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Speaker 8: and in some of cases in coastal areas. We do

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Speaker 8: sell some of the imports cement, but it's a very

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Speaker 8: small portion of our mean selves. But yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 8: a very tough market out there. There's there's over capacity

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Speaker 8: and not not as as a bigger demand for it.

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Speaker 8: So you know, there's there's a good old tarsle on

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Speaker 8: ago and people shift loyalties for for very very few

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Speaker 8: cents of pocket.

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Speaker 2: So interest rates are lower, people are spending more money

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Speaker 2: on cars, some other retail spending is up. What's happening

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Speaker 2: in your sector? That's that's keeping that that's keeping demands

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Speaker 2: so low. Is there just no sort of sense of

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Speaker 2: confidence in the future. People just aren't to the point

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Speaker 2: where they're going to invest in whatever it is they

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Speaker 2: might build.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I do think that that might be part of it.

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Speaker 8: You know, we we saw that post COVID boom, lots

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Speaker 8: of people spent on their houses, probably more than they

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Speaker 8: should have. So I think there's a there's still a

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Speaker 8: bit of overlap lap from from that. People just don't

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Speaker 8: have money and there's there's other stuff that since then

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Speaker 8: came in that people are spending their money on. You know,

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Speaker 8: gambling is in the place, so there's things that that is.

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Speaker 8: Our industry is right at the in terms of being

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Speaker 8: a discretionary spend.

440
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: We know that often people will spend the kind of

441
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,360
Speaker 2: Christmas period. So two things happen at the same time.

442
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,239
Speaker 2: The building industry shuts down, but people will also when

443
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 2: they go home sort of work on the property they

444
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 2: have at home, work on their home in a rural area.

445
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: Does Black Friday that whole thing? Does it matter in

446
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 2: your industry at all? I mean, do you find you

447
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: have to compete against other retailer is quite intensely or

448
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: is building sort of completely isolated from there?

449
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 8: We were as a business, don't have a Black Friday

450
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 8: special deals as such, because you know we firstly, every

451
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 8: day there is pricing business, and then secondly, you know,

452
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 8: we see people. It's not a product that if you

453
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 8: advertise bricks at is especially going to buy if you

454
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 8: don't need it. So it's really a needs to have

455
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 8: an industry and people buy products not necessarily going to

456
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 8: be persuaded by will spend more because there's a special

457
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 8: on at the moment.

458
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 2: Do you see more competition coming in despite the fact

459
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 2: that you know the things are so tough, margins I

460
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 2: presume are quite low. I mean, we see one or

461
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 2: two of the big retail stores have a kind of

462
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 2: building supplier of some kind place you can get cement

463
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: at least. Do you see more coming into the industry.

464
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 2: We know people like Walmart have big plans. I don't

465
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 2: know if they include building and that, but we know

466
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 2: that retail is becoming more and more contested.

467
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, what might have got the local presents should

468
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 8: the build as well as a business so I don't.

469
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 3: Know, then't necessarily change their model, but.

470
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 8: We see the competition increasing more informal side of life,

471
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 8: that there's more more independent operators opening up throughout the

472
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 8: country from from the formalized retailers not not as much.

473
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 8: I think it's been quite a period of consolidation in

474
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 8: terms of people just making sure they rationalize where they

475
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 8: need to and invest in their current service.

476
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 2: Thanks very much. Indeed, Vanadache is the CEO at cash Bill.

477
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 2: Just interesting to see that people don't yet have that

478
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 2: sense of sort of investing in their homes, their properties,

479
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 2: second homes, I supposed in some cases one way or another.

480
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: Your experience of the DIY market at the moment, Please

481
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: on O seven two seven oh two one seven O two.

482
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 13: The Money Show with Stephen Kreutzez is brought to you

483
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 13: by apps of Corporate and Investment Backing. Refined performance is

484
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 13: a measure of discipline. That's how we're invested in your story.

485
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 13: Apps as are rated at their FFP.

486
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 2: Seven minutes now to seven the time. Good to hear

487
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 2: from you this evening. Well the RMB Bureau for Economic

488
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: Research Business Confidence and except by another three points to

489
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 2: forty seven, so just below the fifty level for the

490
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: first three months of the year. KIBET is the macro

491
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: economists at R and B KIBET. Good evening, Thanks for

492
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: your time. This figure is above the longer term average.

493
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 2: What's your sense of how businesses are feeling at the moment?

494
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 2: Ka bads Way, Good evening.

495
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 14: Thank you so much, Steven, Sorry about that. Good evening

496
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 14: to you and your listeners. I hope I'm audible.

497
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 2: Now, Yes you are so. I was saying that this

498
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: figure that the figures were released today, they're above the

499
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 2: longer term average. How do you think businesses are feeling

500
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 2: at the moment it is still below fifty.

501
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 14: Well, I think, look what we see. The result is

502
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 14: about three of the five sectors they are seeing themselves

503
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 14: really in a Baird mood, in a bird sentiment. And

504
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 14: the most important thing is you mentioned the fifty. Those

505
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 14: three are either at the fifty.

506
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 2: Or above it.

507
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 14: And then you have two sectors retailers and manufacturers, which

508
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 14: are underperforming on balance. I really do think that what

509
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 14: you are seeing is a return of investment, I mean

510
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 14: sentiment that is required to pick up investment. When we

511
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 14: see this sustained confidence, normally we see investment also following.

512
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 14: We saw that in the mid two thousands, and hopefully

513
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 14: this increase that we've seen in the last couple of

514
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 14: quarters finally translate into space on the ground.

515
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 2: I know you don't always get this from respondents, but

516
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 2: is it possible to know what is making that change

517
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: in sentiment? So our politics seems better, inflation is lower,

518
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 2: those kinds of things must be factors.

519
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 14: Yeah, So it's a confluence of factors. Right, there's the

520
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 14: soft side of things. You mentioned the politics, the confidence

521
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 14: around the g and U and passing a budget that

522
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 14: was a positive last year. ED really did so that

523
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 14: PM and PCI dip quite a bit with the city budget,

524
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 14: and then the sonar was quite well received as well.

525
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 14: That's what the survey respondents mentioned. There's also the supportive

526
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 14: interest rate environment. At the moment, interest rate about one

527
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 14: hundred bibs below what they wear in the compared to

528
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 14: the current period. And so but you have this confluence

529
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 14: of soft and hard data that is supporting quite a

530
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 14: satisfactory business environment.

531
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 2: So all of that's happening. I mean, to really get

532
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 2: confidence going, we need to keep going like this. For

533
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 2: quite some time. We've just speaking to the DIY retailer

534
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: cash bill. They're still finding things quite tough because people

535
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: just aren't investing in their homes at the moment.

536
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 14: Yeah. I mean, if you look at the current Building

537
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 14: Contractors Business Confidence, it says have something similar as well.

538
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 14: What it does say is that non residential building sector

539
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 14: is actually outperforming the residential But most importantly, I think

540
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 14: when it comes to people not beautifying their houses, if

541
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 14: you look at the retailers, they're also down. But I

542
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 14: think there's some tailwinds that are up. You mentioned inflation

543
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 14: being low interest rate cuts that's helping with low death

544
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 14: service costs. And then we're going into a new Tex season.

545
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 14: What we've seen when we get into a new Tex

546
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 14: season more two port withdrawals, and what comes up to

547
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 14: that is the surge and retail. And this is why

548
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 14: wholesalers in this confidence index, they're quite upbeat. They mentioned

549
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 14: high sales volumes. I think we're going to see those

550
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 14: sales volumes come through retail in the next couple of

551
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 14: months when people start dipping in those two pots, and

552
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 14: hopefully also retailers pick up in terms of where they

553
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 14: think their businesses are and how confident they are in

554
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 14: the current economic conditions.

555
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: So, I mean, the usual South African question, what would

556
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: then upset all of this, and usually the answer is politics.

557
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: I don't think that's actually the answer this year. I

558
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: think the answer this year is higher oil prices because

559
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: of the conflicts around Iran, Israel and the US.

560
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 8: No, you're quite right.

561
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 14: I mean, right now, when we look at our own work,

562
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 14: if this entire tension or rather war is contained, we

563
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 14: see inflation lifting two about three point nine percent for

564
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 14: the year. The base case we have is three point three.

565
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 14: In the most severe case, where the originals bill over,

566
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 14: we see inflation averaging four point three and in that

567
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 14: scenario we reckon the soup will actually hike by about

568
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 14: fifty bases points to contain inflation, as it will be

569
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 14: very far away from the current three percent even around

570
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 14: the tolerance band. With that contained scenario the interest rate

571
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 14: cuting cycle process. But from a base case we still

572
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 14: see fifty basis points. So you can see the risk

573
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 14: is not just on an inflation but also monetary policy

574
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 14: action the reaction to this. If any of these scenarios

575
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 14: play out outside of the base case.

576
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a reminder of how important inflation interest

577
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: rates actually are. There's one thing we've learned from the

578
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: last year. It's just bringing down inflation a little bit,

579
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: and interest rates one hundred and fifty basis points suddenly

580
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: really does change the game. I mean, if they come

581
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,959
Speaker 2: down another fifty basis points, well, I would imagine your

582
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: confidence index will go higher.

583
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 14: Still, look no further than new vehicle dealers. I mean

584
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 14: that confidence is sixty seven. There are long term averages

585
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 14: thirty nine, it says the highest they are even compared

586
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 14: to that COVID period where interest rates were at record

587
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 14: three point five percent. Loans, they are quite buoyd. They

588
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 14: are really enjoying this low interest rate environment and they

589
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 14: are seeing demand coming back. So interest rates are quite important.

590
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 14: And we also know that households are the biggest contributors

591
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 14: to GDP around sixty seven percent of GDP. Is household

592
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 14: consumption quite important to have a healthy household balance sheet.

593
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, very interesting here bets so much a pedal,

594
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: Thanks very much. Indeed, so confidence up, but still quite

595
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: a lot of work to do. And it's just a reminder,

596
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 2: you know, how many times have you heard someone sitting

597
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: in this chair say this to you. We are unfortunately

598
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: not in control of our own fate because of the

599
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: size of our economy and the relative size of some

600
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: of thep and some of the other factors. And of

601
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: course it really in the end so often becomes about oil.

602
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: By the way, your shape shift to this evening, Really

603
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: looking forward to speaking to a corner, the general manager

604
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: of KFC Africa. And not often we get to speak

605
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: to someone who is playing such a big role in

606
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 2: such a well known sort of fast moving international company.

607
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: So really looking forward to speaking to O'Connor from seven

608
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: point thirty this evening. Lots of questions about running big businesses,

609
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: understanding them, how do you know what's really going on

610
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,479
Speaker 2: in different operations in different places? Looking forward to that

611
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: conversation with the Money Show at seven o'clock.

612
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 5: The Money Show business unusual.

613
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: So when you are being recruited, when you are being

614
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: interviewed for a job, you don't always know why a

615
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: decision is made. But also when you'll see when you

616
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: submit to your CVE, you don't even know how you

617
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: get into the first sort of interview process. And lots

618
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: of suggestions that this might be about AI. Debbie Goodman

619
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: is the CEO of Jack Hammick Global. Good Thanks so

620
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: much for joining us tonight. How is AI being used

621
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: in recruitment nowadays? I mean this is starting to play

622
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: a much bigger role. I presume it must be absolutely so.

623
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 9: This is also nothing entirely new. But what we've seen

624
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 9: rarely over the last couple of years with the ability

625
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 9: of candidates in particular to do these sort of AI

626
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 9: enabled mass apply to jobs, is that the congestion in

627
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 9: terms of the number of applicants that apply for any job,

628
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 9: it was always a lot, but now it's just exploded.

629
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 9: And so on the side of recruiters, whether you're an

630
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 9: internal recruiter or running an external agency. The number of

631
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 9: applications that any recruiter receives has just grown exponentially. It's

632
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 9: not possible for a human to actually ever look at

633
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 9: the volume that's coming in. And so although ATS's are

634
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 9: nothing new applicant tracking systems now, those that are AI

635
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 9: enabled are rarely doing the first round of screening for

636
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 9: the volume of cvs that are coming into any job

637
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 9: that's advertised. And the way in which those AI tools

638
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 9: are applying screening mechanisms is sometimes a little bit of

639
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 9: a black box even to the people who are using

640
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 9: the tools, so.

641
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: They don't know why AI chose some of them and

642
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: not others.

643
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 9: Well, not entirely. There is some level of sort of

644
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 9: ignorance in terms of how do these tools actually work,

645
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 9: But at the end of the day, the way in

646
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 9: which humans are using them, it's not just AI alone,

647
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 9: there are the tools are essentially amplifying whatever biases already

648
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 9: exist in a system. So there are two ways in

649
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 9: which bias creeps in. First, there's the developers and the

650
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 9: way in which the technology and the tool is engineered.

651
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 9: There and we know from this is also nothing new.

652
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 9: We know that there's bias inherent in that then we

653
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 9: know that a lot of the AI tools, essentially they

654
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 9: learn they seem to be learned not necessarily with actual intelligence,

655
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 9: but with pattern recognition. And so that pattern recognition will

656
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 9: recognize the ways in which organizations and recruiters are making

657
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 9: selections around who makes it to the first round interview,

658
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 9: which candidates look suitable for a particular type of role,

659
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 9: which candidates are likely to be more successful based on

660
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 9: those that in the organization already are successful and achieving,

661
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 9: and all of that pattern recognition means that where there's

662
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 9: already some kind of human bias, the AI tool is

663
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 9: actually going to amplify.

664
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: It, So I would think. So, I mean, we know

665
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: computers usually reflect the people who program them. Garbage in

666
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: garbage out is a phrase kind of as old as

667
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 2: computer programming, So we're going back to the forties, but

668
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: obviously it still holds true an era of AI. There

669
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: must be ways around it. So, I mean, one thing

670
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 2: that I've always thought would be quite fun I realized

671
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: that you're not in the business for FUNBI or maybe

672
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 2: you are, is.

673
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 5: Depicted so much fun st.

674
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: Is to pick at least one CV at random, because

675
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: it would act as a kind of you would suddenly

676
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: know that if you know, you had one hundred cvs

677
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: whatever it was, for one job, and you picked one

678
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 2: at random, you could keep tellies on the ones that

679
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: you picked at random over a year and you would

680
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 2: see if that was radically different from the pattern that

681
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 2: was being spat out at you by AI. If that

682
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 2: makes any sense.

683
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 9: At all, Okay, well, if we're talking about fun, you

684
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 9: could run a whole lot of different types of control experiments.

685
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 9: Right as it is, is already some evidence that shows

686
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 9: that if you if you have four different llms, four

687
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 9: different long ground with model based AI tools screening a

688
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 9: bunch of cvs, they're all actually going to come up

689
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 9: with a.

690
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 5: Different ranking of a joy.

691
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 9: Yeah. In fact, if you even use the one LM

692
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 9: and you do the CV selection on Monday and then

693
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 9: you put the same batch in on Thursday at a

694
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 9: different time, it is also going to come up with

695
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 9: this lightly different ranking. However, organizations tend to believe the

696
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 9: ranking that whatever a tool they've invested in is going

697
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 9: to be appropriate, correct, mostly right, and quite frankly, humans

698
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 9: have got an equal amount of bias, So I think

699
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 9: that they're going for just good enough and at least

700
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 9: efficient and productive as opposed to really and they're recognize

701
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 9: in fact that they are probably missing out on some

702
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 9: really great talent that just falls through the cracks.

703
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 2: The problem is when the bias is consistent, so for example,

704
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 2: age or race or gender could creep into these things,

705
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: that would surely be a huge one I could imagine

706
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: and you could probably correct for this. That's something that

707
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: starts to have a bias towards people's names one way

708
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,919
Speaker 2: or another, takes all the john Smiths, but none of

709
00:36:55,000 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 2: the Janes or the Muhammed's or whoever. Oh yes, you know,

710
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: and then you rarely are into trouble. And the problem

711
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 2: with that is that people would would over time, they

712
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 2: would notice and they would be correct to complain.

713
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 9: So we haven't yet seen a law suit or a

714
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 9: case in South Africa yet, but in the US there

715
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 9: are thousands. In fact, there's one that is ongoing right now.

716
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 9: It's quite a famous one. It's a class action suit

717
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 9: against Workday, which is a big hr tech platform, and

718
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 9: essentially they're suing a Workday because there is so much

719
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 9: for bias in the system. There are thousands in fact

720
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 9: of these smaller cases, but that's the one that's ongoing.

721
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 10: There.

722
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 9: It is known that there are certain technology AI enabled

723
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 9: technology platforms that favor white sounding names, and that is

724
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 9: a known flaw. There are others that are known to

725
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 9: discriminate on as you said, race, age, gender and so.

726
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 11: Yes.

727
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 9: Of course, it is the responsibility of the organization, the

728
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 9: vigils that are deploying the technology to know what bias is,

729
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 9: what the problems could be. We don't yet have any

730
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 9: legal precedent in South Africa. I don't know of any

731
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 9: law cases that are currently underway, but they are likely

732
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 9: to come. What's interesting is that at the beginning of

733
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 9: this year in January, the eu IS part of their

734
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 9: AI Act, have actually put forward a standard that says

735
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 9: that as if you're deploying any kind of AI technology,

736
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 9: you can't hide behind a veil of ignorance and say

737
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 9: we don't know how the technology works and therefore we're

738
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 9: not responsible for any liability. Essentially, the people who are

739
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 9: using the technology are now being their designated system operators

740
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 9: and that actually means that they carry liability.

741
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: To This could go the other way, of course, AI

742
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: and technology could go quite far to removing the human bias,

743
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: which is often operated in the same kind of way.

744
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, that's the argument, and it's true. I mean,

745
00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 9: I don't know if you've ever tried to look at

746
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 9: cvs in one go, but by the time you get

747
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 9: to number twenty five, you've just gone exactly. You just

748
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 9: you you're just you're not you're not looking, you're not

749
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 9: reading properly. Humans get a lot more tired, a lot quicker,

750
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 9: and you start skimming and so at least here you've

751
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 9: got a tool that never gets tired, is going to

752
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 9: essentially use its own standards and apply that consistently. It's

753
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 9: not fail safe, it's not fool proof.

754
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 5: It has bias.

755
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 9: These are all new issues that we're trying to contend with.

756
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 9: And it's not to say that that it's It definitely

757
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 9: is productive, it definitely is efficient, it definitely is quick.

758
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 9: And because of that, organizations are that they're not minimizing

759
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 9: the problems around bias, but they are saying, well, yes,

760
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 9: we do recognize that we could potentially be losing out

761
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 9: on talent because these lms are not perfect.

762
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things about applying for a job,

763
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: one of the frustrations is that you know, and I've

764
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 2: had this, mean yea ago before, AI possibly even before computers,

765
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 2: you'd be sitting in a queue of people and you'd

766
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 2: be like, why did that get the job? And I didn't?

767
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 6: Right?

768
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: You know that feeling. It's the thing that people complain

769
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: about the most. I would like to think that actually,

770
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 2: at some point, especially with bigger companies that use AI,

771
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: people are going to say, we want to see the

772
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 2: underlying language that you use in the system to make

773
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: it more transparent.

774
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 5: Look.

775
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 9: Of course, that is an ideal. I think if we

776
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 9: as users of the technology are going to be really prudent,

777
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 9: we should actually understand how it's all working. We should

778
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 9: know the filters, we should understand the metrics and the

779
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 9: rubrics and all of it's and pieces. The truth of

780
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 9: it is that we don't, and the technology is enabling

781
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 9: us to be so much more productive so quickly that

782
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 9: I think that that step is going to be increasingly overlooked.

783
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Indeed, it's fascinating to see how

784
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 2: this is happening. Debbie Goodman is the CEO of jack

785
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: Hammer Global. So many different things to think about around

786
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 2: AI and recruitment. Nineteen minutes now after seven.

787
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 5: The Money Show Consumer Ninja.

788
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 2: You consume a ninja of course, Wendy Nola, as you

789
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: know Wendy Good Evening, a big story around home insurance,

790
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 2: around a storm. This is after a two and a

791
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 2: half year battle. It's a Cape town home owner. She

792
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: has a home that's actually quite old, one hundred and

793
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: thirty years old. It's heritage. What happened, It would have

794
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: started with a particular incident.

795
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 5: Yes it did, Hello, Stephen.

796
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 15: It was around midnight on the twenty fourth of September

797
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 15: twenty twenty three.

798
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 11: Some of our listeners.

799
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 15: In the Cape might remember a major storm with winds

800
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 15: of up to one hundred and forty two kilometers an

801
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 15: hour hit the Western Cape and part of the woman's

802
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 15: roof of this Victorian home, of her blue off, her

803
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 15: bedroom ceiling collapsed under the weight of the water and

804
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 15: the timber floors were blooded. So for context, that's.

805
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I'm just saying, wow, that's hectic, totally hectic.

806
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 15: Also on that for context, the storm ranged for two days,

807
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 15: raged for two days. Rather, it brought record breaking rainfall

808
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 15: and destructive winds, and nine people actually lost their lives.

809
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 15: So we're not talking about common and garden storm here.

810
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 15: It was a really, really massive one. The total damage

811
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 15: suffered by the woman due to that storm was three

812
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 15: hundred and sixty three thousand Rand, and the insurer, Standard Insurance,

813
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 15: did pay, but not in full. They paid two hundred

814
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 15: and twenty eight thousand ruand of it for the replacing

815
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 15: of the roof and another twenty three thousand rand for

816
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 15: emergency report repairs and storage costs, which left about one

817
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 15: hundred and eleven thousand rands balance. And they didn't pay

818
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 15: that on the grounds that the damage had occurred as

819
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 15: they gradually from where and tear over one hundred and

820
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 15: thirty years if the house had stood, and coupled with

821
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 15: non treatment of borer, termites, dry rot, and general lack

822
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 15: of maintenance, which is this very standard reason for repudiating

823
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 15: these claims across all insurers, and interestingly, initially the NFO,

824
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 15: the National Finance onwards sided with the insurer and that's

825
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 15: why it went all the way to the appeal trip.

826
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 2: You know I'm going to come to that, but I mean,

827
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 2: I'm sick of it. I can't imagine how you feel

828
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 2: about it that an insurer would would frankly dare so

829
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: because you didn't deal with woodborer, we're not paying for

830
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: the storm damage. I mean it's surely nonsense on the

831
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 2: base of it. She must have been furious there was

832
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 2: and it's.

833
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 15: So common, which is why I like to talk about

834
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 15: these cases a lot steved and to say to people,

835
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 15: make sure you get your roof check, your check for borer,

836
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 15: do all these things that you'd rather not spend money on,

837
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 15: because if you don't, they will find out if you

838
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 15: have a claim for we've been blown off, and then

839
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 15: you'll have this kind of fight on your hand. So

840
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 15: the background to this issue is that she reported the

841
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 15: damage the next morning, then an insurance that says it

842
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 15: took eight days to arrive. You can probably not condoning that,

843
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 15: but I mean, you can imagine how many claims there

844
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 15: must have been. But then she'd had to pay for

845
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 15: a temporary covering to protect the house because the second

846
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 15: storm happened caused more damage. Water was cascading down the stairs,

847
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 15: pooling in the ceiling, and she had to have her

848
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 15: furniture moved and stored and that.

849
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 11: Kind of thing.

850
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 15: And so the fact that they wouldn't pay the full amount,

851
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 15: leaving more than one hundred thousand round out didn't stand well.

852
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 15: She pushed back hard, as you can imagine, and experts

853
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 15: proved that it didn't apply. She could prove that she'd

854
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 15: she could she had certificates from entomologists proving that she'd

855
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 15: had that the boar adult with and of course she

856
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 15: had very strong evidence from an architect and the roofer

857
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 15: to say this damaged happened from the massive, massive storm.

858
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 15: That was the cause, not all these other things that

859
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 15: you are not gradual wear and tear. It was an

860
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 15: old house, yes, but it took many storms. This was

861
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 15: a cracker of a storm and this is a valid clap.

862
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 2: Okay. I mean, I have some questions for the National

863
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 2: Financial ombud if I ever get to speak to them

864
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 2: about this. She then goes to the appeal Tribunal. What

865
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 2: did she say there? Okay?

866
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 15: So that was when she got herself some legal help

867
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 15: in the form of Cape Tan based consumer attorney Trudy Brockman,

868
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 15: and she provided all this evidence that I just spoke about.

869
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 15: Because the main thing, as I've just said, that this

870
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 15: was the highest category storm on the Beaufort Windforce scale

871
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 15: hurricane severe and extensive damage.

872
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 5: So retired Judge Robert.

873
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 15: Nugent, who was sitting on the appeals committee, he called

874
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 15: standard insurance is partial payment puzzling, and he questioned the

875
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 15: insurance logic, saying, had they allegedly compromised him been the

876
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 15: cause of the damage, one would expect Standard to have

877
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 15: rejected the claim as a whole and not only part

878
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 15: of the claim. That anomaly points to a misconception by Standard,

879
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 15: And you're like this part, Stephen, and subsequently on board

880
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 15: as to the nature of the claim, and yeah, and

881
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 15: that she was actually entitled to a full roof replacement.

882
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 15: They found the expert considerations compelling. So yeah, that's that

883
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 15: she finally got justice from that appeal procedure. But the

884
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 15: story's not quite over yet.

885
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 2: Okay, So that ruling was handed down when I mean,

886
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 2: I would like, do you think it was fully complied

887
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: with and sorted out?

888
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 5: I wouldn't.

889
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 15: We just it was fairly recently the thirteenth of FB

890
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 15: and Standard Insurance was given until the twenty seventh of

891
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 15: Feb to pay that one hundred and eleven thousand rand

892
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 15: the balance of the claim. In other words, it has

893
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 15: still not been paid, Stephen. I have just I have

894
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 15: just emailed Standard Bank to ask why not. I thought

895
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 15: i'd sent it earlier this afternoon, but I just founded

896
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 15: in my drafts but anyway, I wouldn't have got I

897
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 15: wouldn't have received a response so soon. And apparently it's

898
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 15: only haven't been this NFO is fairly new since twenty

899
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 15: twenty four, they've only had This was the eighth Appeal

900
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 15: Tribunal ruling and it's the first one where the insurer

901
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 15: has not complied with the ruling. In other words, they

902
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 15: haven't paid the set amount by the deadline and post

903
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 15: by the tribunal. So that's that's what I want to

904
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 15: know of standard insurance.

905
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 2: What's what's the story here?

906
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 15: Are you just having a delay or are you refusing

907
00:47:59,480 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 15: to pay it?

908
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: On?

909
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 15: So there's definitely a follow up to this conversation, Stephen.

910
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 2: Well, I would imagine. So I would have thought that

911
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 2: the Appeal Tribunal itself would not be pleased that its

912
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: ruling hadn't been complied with. I mean no, no, definitely not.

913
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 15: I mean I will be going down that road as well,

914
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 15: asking them what now. There must be some kind of procedure,

915
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 15: But as I say, we only learned of this ruling today,

916
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 15: so I haven't had time to explore all of it.

917
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 15: But I thought, again, I do love sharing these sorts

918
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 15: of cases because so many people listening will have homeowner's insurance,

919
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 15: which you have to have if you've got a bond

920
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 15: on your propercy and paying a premium every month, and

921
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 15: will not. It's the same with the car one Stephen

922
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 15: will not have a successful claim because look, in this case,

923
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 15: the homeowner who did ask not to be named, incidentally

924
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 15: she I mean, the claim should have succeeded because she

925
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 15: did everything right and this was a catastrophic store. But

926
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 15: which is surprising because you'd think that obviously what the

927
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 15: insurance the industry calls the proximate cause of the damage.

928
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 15: But many you know, when we think it's a big storm,

929
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 15: but they will still come with this. It's wasn't the

930
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 15: storm that caused the problem. It's because your boundary wall

931
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 15: wasn't built to specification. It's because you didn't do the

932
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 15: roof maintenance. It's because you do. You know, I've seen

933
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 15: I've seen literally hundreds of these cases, Steven. So, so

934
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 15: the lesson for people listening is, you know, get all

935
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 15: your ducks in a row first of all, so that

936
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 15: if your maintenance do it every year, especially before the

937
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 15: rainy season. And then if you have a claim is

938
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 15: to you know, escalate ansternard, then value insurer. Then you know,

939
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 15: escalate it internally. First, get all the reasons, et cetera. Gether,

940
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 15: get you, get your evidence that's gonna cost money, expert reports,

941
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 15: et cetera. And then go to the NFO. And if

942
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 15: it's a no from then that doesn't have to be

943
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 15: the end of the road. Their own rule state that

944
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 15: there is this appeals process and you may need the

945
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 15: help of an interney, you may not. But you know,

946
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 15: in this case, certainly persistence has paid off. Well, it's

947
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 15: paid off in terms of a ruling in her favor.

948
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 15: Now we wait to see, you know, they're sure is

949
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 15: now in breach of that ruling. And this is to

950
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,720
Speaker 15: be continued maybe next week, maybe the next week after.

951
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 15: Once I've heard from the NFO and as standard insurance,

952
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 15: where does the story go now? Because that money at

953
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 15: one hundred and eleven thousand Rand is due to this

954
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 15: homeowner who's been battling this, let's not forget since September

955
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 15: of twenty twenty three.

956
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 2: Wendy Nurla, thank you what a story. Really appreciate that

957
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: you consume a ninja keeping an eye out for you.

958
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,240
Speaker 5: The money show shape Shifters.

959
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 2: Twenty four minutes now to eight the time, Well, we

960
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 2: thought it was time to speak to an executive, someone

961
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: who actually has continental experience and is doing a fascinating

962
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 2: job at the moment. She's the general manager of KFC Africa.

963
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: I have no idea how you managed something across an

964
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: entire continent. Quite is the general manager of KFC Africa.

965
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: She joins us now, Connor, good evening, and thanks for

966
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 2: agreeing to spend so much time to us, so much

967
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 2: time with us this Wednesday evening.

968
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 11: Good evening, Stephen, and thank you for having me today.

969
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: I saw I was sort of looking around and you know,

970
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 2: having a look at what you had said in the past,

971
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 2: and I saw a note that suggested you did accounting

972
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 2: at school, but you weren't actually that keen on the numbers.

973
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 2: I mean, was that accurate? Did that? Does that sort

974
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: of you know, describe you where you were at sort

975
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 2: of seventeen eighteen nineteen.

976
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 11: Yeah, it did. It happened exactly like that.

977
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 12: So I ended up registering for a bigum in chatat

978
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 12: accounting at Ucity. And it was entirely my dad's decision,

979
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 12: to be honest. He looked at my metric marks and

980
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 12: he said to me, Oh, my gosh, you've got an

981
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 12: accountant in the making. And he said to me, you know,

982
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 12: as a CAA, you will probably be amongst, you know,

983
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 12: one of the first black sas in this country. You

984
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 12: would appreciate this. Back then, this was about twenty five

985
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 12: years ago, there weren't a lot of black sas, especially

986
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 12: female cs. And he said, as a result, you will

987
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,959
Speaker 12: never have to look for a job in your life, which,

988
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 12: strangely enough, I found myself being a female first in

989
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 12: many things. I've also found myself never having to look

990
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:27,439
Speaker 12: for a job, even though I never did end.

991
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 11: Up being a CAA.

992
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 12: So in a weird way, he was being prophetic and

993
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 12: what he said. But yeah, I did. I registered for

994
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 12: a ca degree and then I quickly dropped out of

995
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 12: that stream because I realized, you know, looking at financial

996
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 12: statements all day every day, doing audits on different companies

997
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 12: wasn't exactly my cup of tea.

998
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 2: MM, well, I think you and I would have that

999
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 2: in common. You did a bit common. In fact, I

1000
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 2: think you did a politics, philosophy and economics degree through

1001
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: a b comp. Yeah, I mean a PPE. I look around,

1002
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 2: I think so many young people don't know what to

1003
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: do now is that something you would still wreck men.

1004
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 12: Highly recommend, And you know the benefit of that degree is,

1005
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 12: and the reason why I chose it is I still

1006
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 12: got to stay within the commercial stream because I knew

1007
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 12: I wanted to be in business, but also I'm quite

1008
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 12: passionate about all things politics and philosophy and just understanding

1009
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 12: how the world works, how you know, macroeconomic policies work

1010
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 12: in all of those of those elements, And for anyone

1011
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 12: wanting to be in business, I think it's quite a

1012
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 12: broad degree. So it gives you the breath of business,

1013
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 12: but also looks beyond just business.

1014
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 11: It actually looks at.

1015
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 12: The factors that impact how economies operate, how policies are shaped,

1016
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 12: how you know, philosophers of old thought about the world,

1017
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 12: and so it almost brings together a lot of the

1018
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 12: skills and experiences that you need if you are going

1019
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:51,919
Speaker 12: to be in business and you're going to be having

1020
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 12: to make big decisions. And I found even now actually

1021
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 12: in my current role, that my exposure early on in

1022
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 12: life to that sort of thinking has really help me

1023
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 12: navigate some really really difficult times of anyone's wondering, you know,

1024
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 12: what do what degree do I want? To go into

1025
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 12: that still gives me, you know, breath and allows me

1026
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 12: to still be in business.

1027
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 11: I would definitely recommend something like that.

1028
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I have do teenagers in my house and

1029
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 2: and when they're a little younger, the question why do

1030
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 2: you go to university? And the response, and it's such

1031
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 2: a funny response is to learn how to think? You

1032
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 2: can just absolutely response, but I mean that's exactly that. Yeah, yeah, it.

1033
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 12: Teaches you how to think about the world, how to

1034
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 12: be you know, how to ask the right questions also

1035
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 12: and how to go about finding solutions. But also, you know,

1036
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 12: helps you become a bit more comfortable with ambiguity and

1037
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 12: knowing that you may not have all the answers and

1038
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 12: sometimes you have to make decisions in the absence of

1039
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 12: you know, perfect answers and certainty. And that's that's definitely

1040
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 12: what you learn in university. I don't think it's the

1041
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 12: you know, figuring out how to do a graph, to

1042
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 12: be honest, but it's how to reason with the world.

1043
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 2: I can't imagine the ca being comfortable with ambiguity, so.

1044
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 12: Absolutely not, which is why I quickly dropped out of

1045
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:11,720
Speaker 12: that degree.

1046
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 2: One of the things that seems to make you tech

1047
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,879
Speaker 2: is understanding how a company works and what it's really doing.

1048
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 2: And I think one of your first jobs at an

1049
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 2: oil company was sort of as an analyst. I mean,

1050
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 2: companies are fascinating and it's the joy of, you know,

1051
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: doing this job is sort of trying to understand what's

1052
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: happening in companies. What do you find so interesting about them?

1053
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 12: You know what I find interesting is most companies have

1054
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 12: very similar missions and visions. If you go to any

1055
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 12: one of their websites and you read about what they

1056
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 12: value the most, they'll tell you people are our greatest asset.

1057
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,240
Speaker 12: We value integrity, honestly and all of these wonderful things.

1058
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 12: But the experience that you get can be very different

1059
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 12: from what's written on their websites and you know, company statements.

1060
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 11: And I find that fascinating.

1061
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 12: And I've always asked myself what differentially company A from

1062
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 12: company B. Especially when you look at companies within similar sectors.

1063
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 12: They're doing similar you know, pieces of work. Why would

1064
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 12: one be more successful over the other one? And what

1065
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 12: I've come to realize in my in my twenty years

1066
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 12: working experience is culture is actually the biggest differentiator. You

1067
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 12: may write all the things you want to write around

1068
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 12: what the company, you know, wishes they show up for

1069
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 12: their people and their customers. But ultimately it boils down

1070
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 12: to what the company allows to happen and what the

1071
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 12: company does not tolerate to happen, and that essentially sums

1072
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 12: up what culture is and then how culture actually informs

1073
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 12: the performance of the organization. So the environment that you

1074
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 12: create and the things that you allow and the things

1075
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 12: that you tolerate, and how those then start to drive

1076
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 12: performance within the teams.

1077
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 11: And normally when people.

1078
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 12: Say I'm leaving an organization because the culture was not conducive,

1079
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 12: what they're really talking about is the leadership of that

1080
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 12: organization was not creating an environment where I felt I

1081
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 12: could perform at my optics. And so that for me,

1082
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 12: I've always found in triggering and I do think, you know,

1083
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 12: the biggest responsibility for us as leaders is to make

1084
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 12: sure that the cultures that were who were building are

1085
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,919
Speaker 12: not just based on nice words and nice things to say,

1086
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 12: but they're really deeply entrenched in creating environments that allow

1087
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 12: our people to be their best self, to fully thrive,

1088
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 12: and to help companies are performed, because that's really you know,

1089
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 12: it's become quite competitive now across difference sector, So we

1090
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 12: have to have to make sure that our environments are

1091
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 12: conducing for our people to be their best.

1092
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a strange question, how do you

1093
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 2: make a company culture? And I say that because I

1094
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 2: think that the I mean, obviously, as you say, the

1095
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 2: example of the top leaders matters. I think the example

1096
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 2: of each leader, you know, through all of the different

1097
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 2: divisions and management levels, might matter more. Is it actually

1098
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 2: possible for a big company, I mean something the size

1099
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: of KFC to kind of manage or control or develop

1100
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 2: its own culture and keep that product for a long time.

1101
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 2: I think some companies battle with that.

1102
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 11: Yeah, And honestly we have.

1103
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 12: You know, you don't get to the size that we are.

1104
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 12: We the fastest growing, largest cheers are a fast food

1105
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 12: or cheers.

1106
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 11: Are in the continent and in Sub South Africa at least.

1107
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 12: And you don't get to those sort of numbers just

1108
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 12: by sheer luck.

1109
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 11: It is by design.

1110
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 12: It's because we're very deliberate in the type of culture

1111
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 12: that we create to call it a heart led high

1112
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 12: performance culture, and we're very clear in terms of what

1113
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 12: it actually means, what does high performance mean? And we

1114
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 12: hold every single person to the same standard. Anyone who

1115
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 12: falls outside of that. It's a you know, it's it's

1116
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 12: honest conversations, and quite quickly people are able to align.

1117
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 12: And it's not because we force people into culture or

1118
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 12: we control them, but we create an environment that actually

1119
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,959
Speaker 12: once makes people want to show up in a particular way.

1120
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 12: We celebrate success, so obviously you want to be successful

1121
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 12: because you know you'll get celebrated.

1122
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 11: We rewarded highly.

1123
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 12: We create a space where people can be innovative, they

1124
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 12: can bring up new ideas. Will also create autonomy for teams,

1125
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 12: right is, people don't always have to report upwards in

1126
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 12: terms of what they do.

1127
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 11: There's a lot of independence, there's a lot of ownership.

1128
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 12: People want that they want to feel that the work

1129
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 12: that I'm doing I fully own, I own the you know,

1130
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 12: the results of my work.

1131
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 11: And so we create that.

1132
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 12: And what we're actually doing is we're building a culture

1133
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 12: that just drives high performance. But it's not in the

1134
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 12: way that people would imagine it that be forcing it

1135
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 12: down people's throats. It's just by creating an enabling environment.

1136
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 12: And I think that's the work that the leaders need

1137
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 12: to do.

1138
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 2: How important is it to maintain that from one division

1139
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 2: to another? I mean I've spoken to people who tell

1140
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 2: me they've stayed in big companies for years and years

1141
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 2: and years because you know, they moved around the world,

1142
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 2: but the culture was the same and that really mattered

1143
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 2: to them, you know. And I mean they're moving their

1144
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 2: families halfway across the world because they like the culture.

1145
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a big thing.

1146
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, And it's funny.

1147
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 12: You ask me this question today because we just came

1148
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 12: out of a leadership emersion with my leadership team, and

1149
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 12: this is exactly the conversation we're having around how do

1150
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 12: we create a consistent experience for all our teams, regardless

1151
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 12: of which our functions they belong to. Because what we

1152
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 12: also recognize is in as much as we've got this

1153
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 12: broad organizational culture within each function, it may show up

1154
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 12: differently based on the leader. And so we're wanting to

1155
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 12: detach the leader from the culture in the teams and

1156
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 12: rather have people experience the organization in a very consistent

1157
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 12: manner regardless of what their leader is that they report to.

1158
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 12: So it is definitely something that's top of mind. We've

1159
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 12: always having conversations around you to hold ourselves accountable actually,

1160
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 12: to ensuring that whether you're in marketing or in supply

1161
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 12: chain or operations that you experience the CAFC culture exactly

1162
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 12: as it is consistently in across all functions.

1163
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,959
Speaker 2: One of the things that happened when you were young,

1164
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 2: I think, is that you've got a chance to certain

1165
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 2: executive committee meetings at quite a young age. And one

1166
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 2: of the reasons I find that interesting is I think

1167
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 2: when young people move into a company or a business,

1168
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 2: so even if someone's just relatively new at business, they

1169
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 2: sort of see the people who lead it very much

1170
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 2: at a distance, and that makes them, you know, almost

1171
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 2: not human. You know, they're they're sort of you know,

1172
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 2: in an ivory tower. I don't matter to them. Were

1173
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 2: you was it a big advantage to you that, actually

1174
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 2: quite young, you were able to, if not take part

1175
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 2: in the conversations or make the decisions, at least see

1176
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 2: the people who didn't see how decisions were made.

1177
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 11: It did.

1178
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 12: I mean, I was exposed to exco conversations in my

1179
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 12: first job as an analyst fresh out of varsity, and

1180
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 12: the general manager at the time, you know, started roping

1181
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 12: me into those conversations, primarily as an observer, but also

1182
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 12: to kind of be a minute taker, to be to

1183
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 12: be quite honest. But what it did, is it because

1184
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 12: it created such close proximity between myself and the leadership team,

1185
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 12: is I never felt they were not human and they

1186
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 12: were not approachable, and in fact, quite quickly made me

1187
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 12: relate very well power. From a very young age, I

1188
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 12: was able to relate with leaders that were higher up

1189
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 12: from where I was. I was able to look at

1190
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 12: the different leaders and say, actually, I'd like to be

1191
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 12: this type of leader. The other you know, attributes I'm

1192
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 12: taking from this one as I'm building my own leadership journey.

1193
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 11: This is how I'd like to show up.

1194
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 12: I'd observe them having big debates in the boardroom, and

1195
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 12: I'd say, oh, one day, when I'm in a boardroom

1196
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 12: and I'm having meaningful conversations, I think this is a

1197
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 12: healthy way of debating. I think that's unhealthy. So already

1198
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 12: from that, you know, from that time, I almost started

1199
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 12: building this ideal leadership profile for myself to go, this

1200
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 12: is how I would like to lead, and this is

1201
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 12: who I would like to be. When I get the

1202
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 12: opportunity to sit around the table.

1203
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 2: It must have been really interesting. I mean, because you,

1204
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 2: I mean, you had the ability to think, because you

1205
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 2: done the app and then you see that, and those

1206
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 2: two instances happening quite soon after each other. I mean,

1207
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 2: of us have I mean, when you were young, you

1208
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: must have felt at a young age, or I'm hoping

1209
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,919
Speaker 2: you felt quite a power. I don't know. There would

1210
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 2: sort of been things against you. It was a very

1211
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 2: different time. But in a way, I'm kind of wondering

1212
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 2: what I mean, I'm kind of wondering what you would

1213
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 2: have been liked to employ by the age you were thirty,

1214
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 2: because clearly you were going places already.

1215
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, I never funny enough. I never felt

1216
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 12: young in my career at all. I always felt, Yes,

1217
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 12: things happened quickly, but I and because they happened so quickly,

1218
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 12: people never treated me like I was my age.

1219
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 11: You know, I don't remember being twenty.

1220
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 12: Two and being told I'm young and I'm allowed to

1221
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 12: make mistakes because I'm young. I remember being treated like

1222
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 12: I was an experience, you know, professional already. And it

1223
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 12: actually taught me, as I grew in my career that

1224
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 12: age should not be defining for me. I can't make

1225
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 12: mistakes and blame it on age. And it forced me

1226
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 12: to learn as quickly as I could, and I moved

1227
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 12: around different functions. I've done many, many different things in

1228
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 12: my career and what it helped me to do this

1229
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 12: every time I got into a new role, I would

1230
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 12: make sure that I outperform, that I bring my best,

1231
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 12: that I learn everything that I can about the space,

1232
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 12: because I never wanted, you know, for people to look

1233
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 12: at me and say, oh, well, she's young, that's why

1234
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 12: she's behaving the way that she's and people never treated

1235
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 12: me that way anyway. So I was forced to grow

1236
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 12: up very very quickly.

1237
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 2: We're speaking to A Corner, the general manager of KFC Africa.

1238
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 2: She's with us through until eight o'clock with the Shape

1239
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 2: Shifter segment on The Money Show. It's ten minutes an

1240
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 2: now eight.

1241
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 5: The Money Show Shape Shifters.

1242
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 2: Eight minutes to eight. Corner is the general manager of

1243
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 2: KFC Africa and your Shape Shifter tonight, Conna. When I

1244
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 2: think of KFC, your role in KFC at KFC Africa, well,

1245
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 2: I think that they are two big things that I imagine

1246
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 2: you have to kind of keep in your head at

1247
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 2: the same time. The one is obviously just keeping you know,

1248
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 2: the business going supply, Jane's customers happy, advertising, kitchens, all

1249
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 2: of that stuff. The other, which is maybe a bit

1250
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 2: more interesting, is what will look like in the future.

1251
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 2: Do you have any idea if KFC will be that

1252
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 2: different in the future. I mean, I would presume it's

1253
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 2: going to focus heavily on fried chicken because that's worked

1254
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 2: so well for a very long time.

1255
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 12: Yeah, so that's probably what we thought about KFC in

1256
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 12: the US twenty five years ago. We thought, well, we're

1257
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 12: big on you know, fried chicken, chicken on the bone.

1258
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 11: That's what we sell. So that's why people will continue

1259
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 11: to sell.

1260
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 12: If I look at how the business has changed over

1261
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 12: the years into more of a boneless category, just driven

1262
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 12: by consumer preferences, I can almost extrapulate and say in

1263
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 12: South Africa, in Africa in general, we will probably start

1264
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 12: to see a very similar trend. So part of my

1265
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 12: role is to make sure that not only are we

1266
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 12: getting ready for the trends as they evolve, but that

1267
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 12: we're actually part of parcel of informing how the trends evolve.

1268
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 12: So I spend less time on the operational side of

1269
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 12: the business and the day to day runnings, and I'd

1270
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 12: rather spend more time on how are we redefining not

1271
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 12: just KFC the brand, but how are we redefining the category.

1272
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 12: I think our size allows us to do that. Our

1273
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 12: scale allows us to do that. So we currently going

1274
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 12: through a whole menu refresh across some of our stores.

1275
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 11: We're starting to.

1276
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 12: Bring in new items, and all of this are driven

1277
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 12: by consumer demand, right. I think as a brand that

1278
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 12: is steeped in culture, steeped in consumer insights, we have

1279
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 12: to go the direction.

1280
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 11: That our consumers are wanting us to go things.

1281
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 12: Secondly, Africa is the largest, is the youngest continent, with

1282
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 12: the average age of nineteen. We have to follow what

1283
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 12: the youthful consumers are looking for, and so that's what

1284
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 12: I obsess over. It's to what extent are we able

1285
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 12: to meet the needs of our customers. We've been on

1286
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 12: the continent for fifty five years now, I need to

1287
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 12: make sure that we're still here, you know, and another

1288
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 12: fifty years and another one hundred years, et cetera. The

1289
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 12: only way to do that is to remain relevant. Fried

1290
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 12: Chicken has been relevant for us for fifty five years.

1291
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 12: I can't say to your hand on heart that it

1292
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 12: will still continue to be relevant in the next fifty years.

1293
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 12: But our role is to make sure that whatever the

1294
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 12: MIAD block of the time is that we are leading

1295
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 12: in that.

1296
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 2: Space, do you I mean, KFC, I presume at some

1297
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 2: point it's going to have to respond to the kind

1298
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 2: of weight loss drug phenomenon. What I think over the

1299
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 2: next fifty years will be quite a big change in

1300
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 2: how humans exist and to an extent, how they eat

1301
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 2: and live.

1302
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 12: Yeah, we have to and when I talk about relevance,

1303
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 12: that's one of those elements that we do have to address.

1304
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 12: We are Kentucky Fried Chicken, but I do think we

1305
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 12: still have an opportunity to cater to obviously a more

1306
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 12: health conscious consumer. We do have an opportunity to also

1307
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 12: just pivot our menu to make sure that we're not

1308
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 12: leaving anyone behind. We have a responsibility to make sure

1309
01:07:56,040 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 12: that our ingredients, our obviously talk have high quality credentis

1310
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 12: as well, and that's the work that we continue to do,

1311
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 12: and that's the work that we will continue to do

1312
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 12: for us to remain relevant in the market.

1313
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 2: Do you have to travel a lot? I know some

1314
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 2: people love travel, some people hate it. Some people have

1315
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: created systems so they don't have to do too much

1316
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 2: of it. If you're managing a content I'll imagine from

1317
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 2: time to time you're going to different places.

1318
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 12: I do travel a lot, but the funny story is

1319
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 12: I don't travel on the continent as much as I

1320
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,879
Speaker 12: love to, because a lot of my travel is outside

1321
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 12: of the continent. Strangely enough, I do enjoy travel a lot. Actually,

1322
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,639
Speaker 12: I probably one of the things that I do for fun. Also,

1323
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 12: I quite enjoy being in different countries, meeting different people,

1324
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 12: experiencing different cultures, and just really recognizing that, you know,

1325
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 12: as different as we all see, we're all very similar.

1326
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 11: We're all human at the heart of it.

1327
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 12: And so I do love the time that I spend

1328
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 12: away every now and then. I do have systems, structures,

1329
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:01,880
Speaker 12: support systems.

1330
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 11: As well that enable me to do all of that.

1331
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,879
Speaker 12: I've got four children, but I've got an amazing husband

1332
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 12: who make sure that when I'm away everything continues to run.

1333
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 12: I've got, you know, wonderful helpers at home. We've got

1334
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:16,639
Speaker 12: a great friendship support system also, so they're enough people.

1335
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 12: There's enough family and everybody to make sure that things

1336
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 12: run when I'm away.

1337
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 11: But I do quite enjoy the element of travel.

1338
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 12: I think the other reason why I enjoyed so much

1339
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 12: is because when I'm flying, that's probably the only time that.

1340
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 11: No one is asking me for anything.

1341
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:32,799
Speaker 12: I'm not reading emails, my children not calling for my attention,

1342
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 12: no one's expecting me to make them dinner.

1343
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 11: It's literally my time.

1344
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 12: I will read, i will do some thinking, i will

1345
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 12: respond to emails, I'll do what.

1346
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,839
Speaker 11: I need to do. And so I really do realist

1347
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 11: that time.

1348
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 2: So we always like to ask people what they do

1349
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 2: for fun to relax, And there's a general rule on

1350
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 2: the Money Show that you're not allowed to say jogging

1351
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 2: and spending time with family because otherwise everyone says that,

1352
01:09:55,240 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 2: and frankly jogging sporing. So apart from that, is there

1353
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 2: anything you particularly enjoy or interested in? I mean, someone

1354
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 2: answered this question once by saying, I think aerial photography.

1355
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 2: I don't know about that.

1356
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 12: Wow, I actually did want to say it is watching

1357
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 12: my children have fun.

1358
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, great answer.

1359
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 12: On weekends, I'm taking my children, you know, to recreation

1360
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 12: activities or play data parties or whatever. But apart from that,

1361
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 12: like I said earlier, I love traveling, So that's definitely one.

1362
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 12: I also and it may not sound as much fun

1363
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 12: to somebody else, but I recently started a well not

1364
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 12: recent year, about a year ago, started a network for

1365
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 12: Women in Franchising called WEAFA Women in Franchising Africa and

1366
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 12: that keeps me busy in my spare time. And really

1367
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 12: what it is is a platform for women who want

1368
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 12: to explore the world of franchising, want to get into business.

1369
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 11: We've proven business models, et cetera.

1370
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 12: And what we do is we find opportunities for them,

1371
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 12: we find funding mechanisms for them, and we connect people

1372
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 12: to opportunities and help them get started on their franchising journeys.

1373
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 12: And it's across different industries. It's a Pan Africa network,

1374
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 12: so that's a lot of fun and that definitely helps

1375
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:11,720
Speaker 12: me to relax because it also it's an opportunity for

1376
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:14,600
Speaker 12: me to give back and to contribute with my backgrounds,

1377
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 12: with my networks, my experiences, et cetera. And I find

1378
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 12: it very very meaningful to see other women uplifted.

1379
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 2: Connor, thank you so much, Really enjoyed talking to you

1380
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 2: over the last half hour, Really well spent. Thank you.

1381
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 2: Corner Quinque is the general manager of KFC Africa. Your

1382
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 2: shape shifted tonight