Speaker 1: It is time to step into the garden, and today
Speaker 1: we are going to be zooming in on the subject
Speaker 1: of compost, When to use it, how to use it,
Speaker 1: how to make it if you want to make your own,
Speaker 1: what to ask about if you prefer to let somebody
Speaker 1: else make it and send it to you. Charisfail Yun
Speaker 1: is with us, but she has bought a special guest
Speaker 1: who is going to headline the act as it were.
Speaker 1: So firstly, let me say lovely to see you again, Charise,
Speaker 1: welcome back, Thank you so much, and thank you for
Speaker 1: finding us such an extraordinary specialist in this field. Because
Speaker 1: with me in studio as well is horticulturist Hilda Stanfleet,
Speaker 1: who worked for many years for Master Organics, specializing in composts,
Speaker 1: mixes and mulches. She's also one of the judges of
Speaker 1: the South African Landscaping Institute's gardens every year, so this
Speaker 1: is a subject very close to her heart. And Hilter,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming in to share your
Speaker 1: knowledge with us. Welcome, Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1: It's our great, great pleasure. Let's start with what might
Speaker 1: seem like a very obvious role, because we fear so
Speaker 1: many guests saying, throw a little compost on it. What
Speaker 1: is compost? What role does it actually play in the garden.
Speaker 2: So compost is essentially your green waste that you would
Speaker 2: normally put into your landfall, and now you're taking that
Speaker 2: product and you're taking it from being green and horrible
Speaker 2: and turning it into this very rich, dark lash material
Speaker 2: that you'll stick into your garden. So we live on
Speaker 2: the cape flats. Everything people say things like my garden
Speaker 2: soil is oily. I throw water on it and it
Speaker 2: just runs off, or I'll put water on it and
Speaker 2: it'll soak down to two millimeters, And that's because we
Speaker 2: don't have enough organic components within our soils. So what
Speaker 2: we do is we go to a nursery and we
Speaker 2: buy something we've essentially putting into landfall. So we're taking
Speaker 2: something that we've got in huge volumes at certain times
Speaker 2: of the year and we're buying it so rather than
Speaker 2: taking that money that we could be spending on plants.
Speaker 2: Because let's face enough, man suspended. You take your green
Speaker 2: waste and if you don't have enough, you get some
Speaker 2: from your neighbor, and you're go and find the products
Speaker 2: that you need to turn into this rich black gold.
Speaker 1: I love that way of looking at it, and I
Speaker 1: also love what you've said about sharing with the neighbors,
Speaker 1: maybe starting a communal compost heap for your block of
Speaker 1: three or four homes or whatever it may be, and
Speaker 1: saying we'll all contribute and all enjoy the produce at
Speaker 1: the end of it. Now, not all compost is equal,
Speaker 1: and the contents of compost are so important to the
Speaker 1: final impact on the garden once you put it in there.
Speaker 1: Let's start there, Hilda. What should be in there? What
Speaker 1: shouldn't be in there? If you want to make a good,
Speaker 1: rich compost that is going to nourish your garden and
Speaker 1: turn your soil into something magical that things grow in.
Speaker 1: What are the key things you're looking for?
Speaker 2: So the key ingredients to a compostors air water, brown
Speaker 2: waste or brown high carbon content, and green waste. And
Speaker 2: then of course your normal everyday garden I'm not guarding,
Speaker 2: but kitchen products that you've got hanging around. And then surprisingly,
Speaker 2: coffee grounds amazing stuff for compost. Yes, you can get
Speaker 2: it free from your local coffee merchant. They're just gonna
Speaker 2: transfer are they just throwing it away?
Speaker 1: You might be fighting off the of skin product people,
Speaker 1: because I know that the scrubs these days use a
Speaker 1: lot of coffee grounds.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've got a local guy somewhere think there's enough.
Speaker 2: There's enough to get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure I drink enough to sustain one of
Speaker 1: those industries on its own, just me personally. So there
Speaker 1: we go. Okay, So the greenways, the brown high carbon
Speaker 1: content air and water. That water might be something that
Speaker 1: people haven't thought about when setting up their own compost heat.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about what you need to do. It's
Speaker 1: not as simple as just HOOI everything onto a heap
Speaker 1: and hope for the base.
Speaker 2: Well it can be, can it can if you're if
Speaker 2: you've got time and you don't want to, well you
Speaker 2: don't have time. If you don't have time, but you've
Speaker 2: got the product, you can check it in a heap
Speaker 2: and everything will break down over time, so you might
Speaker 2: get your compospital will be much later than if you
Speaker 2: actually did a little bit of work.
Speaker 1: Okay, So that little bit of work that can speed
Speaker 1: up the process, what does that involve?
Speaker 2: Okay, So it's choosing a site, okay, and anybody can
Speaker 2: do a compost tep. You can your littles. You could
Speaker 2: have a massive garden where you've got incredible amounts of
Speaker 2: waste that normally would just go to landfall where you
Speaker 2: can use that and build it. Or you could have
Speaker 2: a tiny little garden where you can get a compost
Speaker 2: bin so it's not unsightly. Most municipalities actually will give
Speaker 2: it you for free, so just go onto your local
Speaker 2: municipal website and see what they'll do.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you've mentioned that because our listener Jill
Speaker 1: has actually written in saying how much she has enjoyed
Speaker 1: joining the City of Cape Town's home composting program. She says,
Speaker 1: we have been thrilled with urban They seem to be
Speaker 1: rolling them out area by area and it's worked really
Speaker 1: well for her and Jill. I'll get to the question
Speaker 1: came with that comment in a moment, but just wanted
Speaker 1: to include that mention that it can be done right
Speaker 1: here in Cape.
Speaker 2: To absolutely And I actually went on to the city's
Speaker 2: website and there for the next month and a half,
Speaker 2: they are various areas that'll roll it out, and I
Speaker 2: think you just have to fill out a form and
Speaker 2: is I like.
Speaker 1: One okay, and they will bring you your compost and
Speaker 1: just get started.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so you've got a big enough garden, find a
Speaker 2: space that you will get to. The thing is often
Speaker 2: people make their compost steeps at the end of the
Speaker 2: garden and then they forget about it or life happens,
Speaker 2: so you know you've never actually done what you intended
Speaker 2: to do. So what you need to do is start
Speaker 2: with a good bassett. Find a site that I think
Speaker 2: is accessible. Firstly, has access to water, so you know
Speaker 2: you don't want to be carrying your water in can
Speaker 2: down to the end of the garden to try and
Speaker 2: water it. It must okay, and then errate the soil underneath.
Speaker 2: You're going to put this compost down. We need to.
Speaker 2: You don't want to put it on a preferably a
Speaker 2: blank space. You're a domestic gardener, you don't. You don't
Speaker 2: have the the large areas like the guy the commercial guys.
Speaker 2: Do you want to turn that soil so you want
Speaker 2: to bring the micronutrientstead of there. And the earthworms they're amazing.
Speaker 2: They find their way into compost heaps. They'll move up
Speaker 2: slowly but surely. So find your little area, turn the
Speaker 2: swell and then compost essentially is lasagnia. That's saying it's
Speaker 2: just layering course products underneath then greens. So greens is
Speaker 2: your grass clippings, your kind of products that you have
Speaker 2: in your vegetable patch where you've harvested your vegetables and
Speaker 2: now you're stuck with the green product afterwards. That's your greens.
Speaker 2: Try not to do too much greens. Greens are lovely,
Speaker 2: but they'll compact down and they'll become sludge. So that's
Speaker 2: where the compost. That's where the lazagnia comes in. You
Speaker 2: go green, brown, green, brown, It doesn't matter. Fifty to
Speaker 2: fifty is always good. You read these things and it says, oh,
Speaker 2: you've got to use one third two thirds. Let's not
Speaker 2: make life complicated.
Speaker 1: In school, okay, So green brown, green brown, green, and
Speaker 1: moisten in between green brown, moist, green brown moist.
Speaker 3: And don't forget the little coffee grounds.
Speaker 2: In there and the coffee grounds because remember the coffee
Speaker 2: grounds activators as well.
Speaker 1: Stale stale beer.
Speaker 2: But who is still beer with South Africans.
Speaker 1: I do not understand. Yes, okay, but if you accidentally
Speaker 1: open a court and when you should that halfway, or
Speaker 1: you woke up from the party the next morning, and
Speaker 1: there are a few unused, unfinished bottles. That's let's imagine
Speaker 1: that scenario. You can pour that onto the composity perfect, okay,
Speaker 1: amazing stuff.
Speaker 2: Micro nutrients in there. Also, the yeasts help break down,
Speaker 2: move things very very fast.
Speaker 1: And it's going to attract all the snails, isn't it cheries?
Speaker 3: Of course?
Speaker 1: I know that you have that. Okay, okay, all right,
Speaker 1: so you're green, you're brown moisturing it in between a
Speaker 1: little bit of coffee, some stale beer for for for help,
Speaker 1: is there anything that you absolutely shouldn't put on their hilda?
Speaker 2: Okay, so cooked foods, okay, not ideal meat products, cheeses,
Speaker 2: anything that potentially will attract rats, mice, anything like that.
Speaker 2: Not ideal. You can look, you can use that, But
Speaker 2: that's a bakashi on your kitchen counter with special breakdown.
Speaker 2: Don't stick it in your your garden composte at the
Speaker 2: end of the garden.
Speaker 3: Don't you just want to keep it vegan, Keep it vegetarian, keep.
Speaker 2: Some people each to your zone, your vegan compusti for
Speaker 2: your vegan and your.
Speaker 1: Meat with a bacasha in the kitchen, just just for
Speaker 1: the sake of anybody who's come In midway to this conversation,
Speaker 1: you'll hear the occasional chirp from Scheris Filoni's voice, you
Speaker 1: know very well. But the other voice doing most of
Speaker 1: the talking today belongs to Hilda Stunfleet too, is a
Speaker 1: horticulturist who is giving us a crash course in making
Speaker 1: your own compost in your own garden, even if it's
Speaker 1: a tiny little garden with space for a small compost bin.
Speaker 1: She is empowering us with the knowledge on how to
Speaker 1: do this ourselves, so we don't have to go and
Speaker 1: spend our hard earned money on buying somebody else's compost.
Speaker 1: We can make it ourselves using the waste products that
Speaker 1: we ourselves are generating. And I love the circularity of
Speaker 1: that idea holder that we take our own waist, yes,
Speaker 1: and turn it into something beautiful. Now, William asking a
Speaker 1: very cape down question, can you put horsepoo in your compost?
Speaker 2: Heap absolutely yes, so preferably herbaceous and animals that eat grasses. Okay, okay,
Speaker 2: so yes. Horse poop is amazing and it will break down.
Speaker 2: It is a activator. So if you don't have enough,
Speaker 2: you water it down and you water it on your
Speaker 2: compost deep. Okay, you can use it fresh. It's fine
Speaker 2: because your compasteep's going to take eight to twelve weeks
Speaker 2: to get ready soon burn anything because at that by
Speaker 2: that point it will have broken down.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, perfect, So eight to twelve weeks for a
Speaker 1: good for a good one good one that gets turned okay.
Speaker 2: So I would say anything will break down over time.
Speaker 2: If you've got the time, you can just leave it
Speaker 2: and it will break down, but it won't be accessible unusable.
Speaker 2: I also like to want people to, if they've got
Speaker 2: the space, have two compost heaps, going one to bold
Speaker 2: and one to use, so you're constantly and rotating through
Speaker 2: your compost heaps one to bold.
Speaker 1: One to use. Okay, now we've got Roy on the line,
Speaker 1: who is calling in from FISHUK, who I think wants
Speaker 1: to share a piece of advice that he's found helpful
Speaker 1: in his own composting. Roy, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: calling in. Good afternoon pleasure.
Speaker 4: Hello Papa. The easiest thing to do is buy a
Speaker 4: WHEELI bin you can get them online simple, and then
Speaker 4: you make holes in the bottom. Just drill holes down
Speaker 4: in the bottom so that the water can go out,
Speaker 4: and then pack it as you normally would you know
Speaker 4: with sticks at the bottom, et cetera, et cetera, as
Speaker 4: you've been describing, and it works perfectly so you can
Speaker 4: tip it over to to dig it over and when
Speaker 4: you need to take it out to wherever your your
Speaker 4: gardening is, you can usually hopefully wheel it along.
Speaker 1: That is such a practical.
Speaker 4: Like your rubbish, but you buy them online and no
Speaker 4: rats or mice or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Roy, that's a brilliant tip. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: sharing it with us. I love the idea of making
Speaker 1: it portable, as you said accessibility. If you can't get
Speaker 1: to it, you're not going to use it. If you
Speaker 1: can take it to where you need to use it,
Speaker 1: you're going to use it even more. That's a genius idea, Roy.
Speaker 1: Thank you. What about eggshells, asks Diana.
Speaker 2: Yes, so egg shells contain lime or and you want
Speaker 2: to break down the eggshells and crush it down and
Speaker 2: then sprinkle in between. And it is also an activator.
Speaker 2: It gets the compost deep going and provides small good
Speaker 2: quantities of lime within the soil.
Speaker 1: Okay, thanks for that. Okay, so, but crush important to
Speaker 1: crush small people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you wanted to be very fine and you can
Speaker 2: also use tea tea leaves.
Speaker 1: Okay, the tea leaves, that's gonna say. If youre talking
Speaker 1: about leftover tea, there should be no such traves tea leaves, okay.
Speaker 1: And could you break open your commercial tea bag.
Speaker 2: And that are decomposable the plastic and there might you
Speaker 2: might just get what's ta skeletons.
Speaker 1: Okay, but if you could actually wrap it open and scatter.
Speaker 2: Or scatter that within a bucket so you're not walking
Speaker 2: to the garden, just.
Speaker 1: Put on and then it's fall. Finally, use for that
Speaker 1: huge pile of tea in my heart. Okay, there we go. Now. Jill,
Speaker 1: who was saying how much she's enjoying the cities and
Speaker 1: that she received, had a question. Then we just go
Speaker 1: back to that. She says, there are weeds everywhere after
Speaker 1: the rain which need to be pulled up by hand.
Speaker 1: Can those be added to compost? She feels, and can
Speaker 1: be very therapeutic and it's also a very useful work opportunity.
Speaker 1: But can can the weeds go onto the compost?
Speaker 5: Very much?
Speaker 2: So, yes you can, but preferably not flowering weeds. So
Speaker 2: if you can. Dandelion is amazing for to activate compast seeds,
Speaker 2: but not the dandelion seeds. So the flowers before they
Speaker 2: the seeds mature perfect. So yeah, absolutely, just mature. You're
Speaker 2: not putting the weed seeds in other things that you
Speaker 2: shouldn't put in as and we often find that not cooker,
Speaker 2: you cuttings, that's fine, okay, cooker you roots and quick
Speaker 2: those they will grow anywhere. They'll grow meters. So when
Speaker 2: you're pulling out you know often you're digging in the
Speaker 2: garden and you and then you'll take all of that.
Speaker 2: Try just don't those two specifically, they're not okay.
Speaker 1: So weed are the root system the root systems.
Speaker 2: Of specific grasses that just by their nature will take
Speaker 2: over and grow without any help.
Speaker 1: You don't want grass growing in I get you.
Speaker 3: You do need to know something about your weeds before
Speaker 3: you do it. Also, because those creeping rhy tastes oh rhizomatically,
Speaker 3: ones that grow flat on the lawn that root as
Speaker 3: they go, don't put them in the compast because that
Speaker 3: little piece of root can grow. And you read, but
Speaker 3: there are plenty of soft green herbaceous pasions that have
Speaker 3: got no strength to them that make a great addition
Speaker 3: to the company.
Speaker 2: Anything with a long taproot, okay, perfect, okay, any weeds
Speaker 2: with long tap roots perfect to stick in without the
Speaker 2: flower heads perfectly.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. Just several listeners, he'lda saying absolutely practical
Speaker 1: and usefulness talk is they're taking copious notes and saying
Speaker 1: thank you to you for your help. So thank you.
Speaker 1: Let me echo that, and let me just say once
Speaker 1: again in case somebody's coming very late, that our guest
Speaker 1: is horticultures till the stun fleet. She is for you,
Speaker 1: and also with us chirping in from time to time.
Speaker 1: Another can I or can't I question from Judy Yes
Speaker 1: or no? To finely chopped paper.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, as long as it's not glossy. Okay, so
Speaker 2: just normal everyday paper is fine, just nothing glossy. No
Speaker 2: treated wood.
Speaker 1: No treated wood. Okay. We've also got a question that's
Speaker 1: coming as a voice note from die. I believe. Let's
Speaker 1: take a listen to that.
Speaker 5: Pappa, I do hope you haven't covered this in the
Speaker 5: conversation already. I'm interested to know what to do with leaves,
Speaker 5: especially plane tree leaves. We have a big tree in
Speaker 5: our garden, lots of leaves. My husband and I are
Speaker 5: at odds as to whether they should be added to
Speaker 5: the compost heap, because one party says they will take
Speaker 5: too long to decompose, and the other one says they
Speaker 5: will decompose but not prepared to commit to how long. Oh,
Speaker 5: what's your experts opinion?
Speaker 1: Please?
Speaker 5: I'd really like to hear that. Thank you. It's die
Speaker 5: more constantia.
Speaker 1: Bye, thanks die.
Speaker 2: Thank you, die so die. You're both right.
Speaker 1: The best possible diplomatic answer.
Speaker 2: You're both right. Yes, it will take incredibly long to
Speaker 2: break down. But we're not just going to throw that
Speaker 2: entire pile on your top of your compost deep. Remember
Speaker 2: we're going to lose ania. So the green things, the
Speaker 2: green nitrogenous ones, help break down the brown. So if
Speaker 2: we layer the two rather than just checking a pile.
Speaker 2: Because often when you put big leaves they stick together.
Speaker 2: They become this impenetrable mass when they get wet as well,
Speaker 2: so you want to put the things that will help
Speaker 2: keep it light and fluffy. The idea of a compast
Speaker 2: heep is to have lots of air in it, so
Speaker 2: you want to have air particles, air pockets in between,
Speaker 2: and so the leaves will work. If you can put
Speaker 2: your leaves on your lawn. Run your lawn mower over it,
Speaker 2: if you've got a strong enough lawn mower. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: that'll break the leaves down into smaller pieces. So that's probably,
Speaker 2: I think, probably the better thing to do. Check your
Speaker 2: leaves on the lawn, run your lawn mower over it,
Speaker 2: check it in the compasteep. So now it's not big giant.
Speaker 1: I've just had a vision of someone sitting with a
Speaker 1: pair of scissors cutting off their big leaves into small strips.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it would be a great exercise and mindfulness,
Speaker 1: but it might take a little longer than the lawnmower version.
Speaker 1: We've got Vincent on the line from Musenberg with I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if it's a question or a comment, but Vincent,
Speaker 1: you're welcome. Well, good afternoon.
Speaker 4: I'm not a question of comment, yep. If you want
Speaker 4: to attract earthworms to your compost heap, don't use citrus
Speaker 4: or onions.
Speaker 1: Okay, then they don't like those, do them?
Speaker 4: No they don't.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you very much for the tip, Hilda. Does
Speaker 1: that ring true for you?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Okay, I know Vincent's very right, and you can
Speaker 2: even try and get some red w regulars, which are
Speaker 2: your vermei compost worms and throw them in to your
Speaker 2: normal compost teep.
Speaker 1: Okay, to just start the boat of the process.
Speaker 2: You know, there are so many earthworms, but these ones
Speaker 2: they seem to be workerbees. They are the ones that
Speaker 2: are just going out there doing as much work as possible,
Speaker 2: and they love breaking down compost.
Speaker 1: There, you're where does one buy red regulars?
Speaker 3: I have actually mine migrated from my own little earthworm
Speaker 3: farm to my compost bind which is not far away.
Speaker 3: So they do it themselves. But there are some compost
Speaker 3: suppliers that will offer you a red regulars worth it.
Speaker 3: You just can definitely on your community groups. If anyone
Speaker 3: has an earthworm farm, they've got red regulars to share.
Speaker 1: Okay, so speak up on your WhatsApp. Anybody got some
Speaker 1: as we ordered with smulberry leaves for the silkworms back
Speaker 1: in the day. Okay, now it is the red regulars.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: MH has got a hot compast heat full of earthworms,
Speaker 1: but says I cannot get the heart of my compast
Speaker 1: heap to be hot enough. He's worried or so that
Speaker 1: the heat might kill the earth worms.
Speaker 2: No, no, okay, I' designed for that.
Speaker 1: They're all good okay.
Speaker 2: So to get a compast heap hot, you will have
Speaker 2: to turn it and then potentially reintroduce. So compost heats
Speaker 2: up initially and then cools down. But sometimes you also
Speaker 2: don't get enough moisture in the middle, so if it
Speaker 2: gets too dry, it sometimes doesn't heat up. So remember
Speaker 2: you want your compost heap to be like a if
Speaker 2: you squeeze it, you don't if you pick up the
Speaker 2: the compostible material. You don't want water to be dripping
Speaker 2: out of your hand. Okay, you just want it to
Speaker 2: be like a damp sponge. Okay. So if he sticks
Speaker 2: his hand in the middle and it's not hot, turn
Speaker 2: the heap again. Okay, okay, add greenery in, but the
Speaker 2: greenery of the stuff that starts it up again and
Speaker 2: then moisten it. So remember we've had insane weather in
Speaker 2: the cape, so chances are your compact heaps sodden, okay
Speaker 2: if it hasn't been covered. So in the in the
Speaker 2: Western Cape, I would cover your compast sep with cardboard boxes,
Speaker 2: a jute carpet if you've got one lying around, preferably
Speaker 2: not something polysty a plastic base, yes, okay, because you
Speaker 2: don't want that into your compast teep. But yeah, anything
Speaker 2: that will keep it moist warm but not wet.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, so right now most compass heaps are sudden.
Speaker 2: Just start again. Just wait for the weather to warm
Speaker 2: up a little bit. You'll have leaves, stick those in.
Speaker 2: Don't stick any more green wastein right now, because green
Speaker 2: waste is just going to become this block of mush,
Speaker 2: stinky mush. Okay, so you don't not right now, not
Speaker 2: right now, just enough leaf material just or actually right now,
Speaker 2: just leave it this very little you can do this
Speaker 2: potential rain coming. Sometimes one just has to sit and
Speaker 2: observe the garden, and especially a compass deep at this
Speaker 2: time of the year, and it will get better.
Speaker 1: Let it do its thing.
Speaker 2: Quite there's no point in you trudging across it as
Speaker 2: well and compacting the soil to get there.
Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, that's great advice. Now before we must
Speaker 1: say goodbye, I want to circle back. We had that
Speaker 1: great question from William about horsepoo and you did say yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and it's the herbivores are good. Liz has asked an
Speaker 1: important one, what about dog poo? Is that compossible?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: Okay, no, dog, No, cat, no human. Our domestic compost
Speaker 2: heaps are don't get hot enough. They also contend too
Speaker 2: many bad new news.
Speaker 1: Okay, I love that the bad new news. Okay, so
Speaker 1: human dog and cat, no horse, yes, and anything that
Speaker 1: only eats green shuess cool okay, but not the dogs,
Speaker 1: and not the cats, and certainly not the humans. Liz,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked it, because I'm sure there were
Speaker 1: lots of other people wondering too, So thank you for that,
Speaker 1: right gosh you have. It's just one last comment from
Speaker 1: Belinda saying the red wrigglars are amazing. They live in
Speaker 1: that humous layer unlike our earthworms. I use them in
Speaker 1: the city compost bins and in the normal bin on wheels,
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for that confirmation, Belinda. Well,
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you so so much
Speaker 1: to you, Hilda and Scherise for finding us Hilda, because wow,
Speaker 1: I feel like we've just had an encyclopedic download of
Speaker 1: everything we needed to know. I'm feeling very empowered to
Speaker 1: get started, and that is how we like our listeners
Speaker 1: to feel. So Hilda, well done. Thank you so so
Speaker 1: much for your time this after you huge pleasure to
Speaker 1: have you with us consting Hilda Stanfleet and Charis fa Yun.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. We'll talk against him