1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: You're with Clement Manya Taylor on seven o two. Let's 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: walk the talk. 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: Streaming on the Prime Media Plus. 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: As des TV channel eight five six ninety two point 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: seven and one O six FM. 6 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: Seven minutes after nine out club, Do you Mela? Welcome 7 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: to the Wednesday edition of the Clement Many Tela Show. 8 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: It's great to have you with us here on seven 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 2: oh two. I trust you are well this morning, so 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 2: let's kick off the seven oh two open line, shall we. 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: The big developing story we're trekking this morning is around 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 2: the war in the Middle East. We talk about this 13 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: a lot because this war is quite a defining moment 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: in geopolitics. It's the five for the world. It's defining 15 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: for the people of Iran. But it also affects you 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 2: in various ways, including your pockets. So it matters much. 17 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 2: So we woke up this morning to a huge sense 18 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 2: of relief because a ceasefire has been agreed between the 19 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: US and Iran. It's been agreed between the US and Iran. Remember, 20 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 2: President Trump warned that a whole civilization was going to 21 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 2: die last night. He threatened to annihilate Iran. But thanks 22 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: to the intervention of Pakistan, which is trying to brok 23 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 2: a peace between the two countries, and hopefully that works 24 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: because the entire Gulf region is on pins and needles. 25 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: So I was away from President Trump committing a war crime. 26 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: A ceasfire was agreed to you. And this ceasfire means 27 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: that the attacks will stop for about two weeks. The 28 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: Strait of Homuz will be opened for two weeks. Iran 29 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: says a safe passage through that strait will be possible 30 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: via coordination with Iran's armed forces and with due consideration 31 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 2: of technical limitations, which is a great short term relief 32 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: for the global market. So the two parties are now 33 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: expected to meet on Friday. In fact, world leaders have 34 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 2: been responding welcoming this sees fire. Here's what Pope Leo 35 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: said just the other day. 36 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 3: I would simply say once again what I said in 37 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 3: the messaged on Sunday, asking all people of goodwill to 38 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 3: search always for peace and not violence, to reject war, 39 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 3: especially a war which many people have said is an 40 00:02:54,520 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: unjust war, which is continuing to escalate and which is 41 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 3: not resolving anything. In fact, we have a worldwide economic crisis, 42 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 3: energy crisis, situation in the Middle East of great instability 43 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 3: which is only provoking more hatred throughout the world. So 44 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 3: come back to the table, let's talk, let's look for 45 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 3: solutions in a peaceful way, and let's remember especially the 46 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 3: innocent children, the elderly, sick, so many people who have 47 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 3: already become or will become victims of this continued warfare. 48 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 3: To remind all that at tax on civilian infrastructure is 49 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 3: against international law, but that it is also a sign 50 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 3: of the hatred, the division, and the destruction the human 51 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 3: being is capable of. And we all want to work 52 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 3: for peace. People want peace. I would invite the citizens 53 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 3: of all the countries involved to contact the authorities, political leaders, 54 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 3: congressman to ask them, tell them to work for peace 55 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 3: and to reject war always. Thank you very much. 56 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: So that's what Pope Leo said. But other I mean, 57 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: there are world leaders that have been responding, a lot 58 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 2: of them welcoming and this opportunity for the two parties 59 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 2: to sit down. So here's a question for you. Whose 60 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 2: victory do you think this is? Because both America and 61 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: Iran are claiming victory. America will tell you that Iran caved. 62 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 2: Iran will say to you, America blinked. But what do 63 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: you think. Let me call on oh one one eight 64 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: eight three oh seven oh two. You can send your 65 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: whatsaps on seven two seven oh two one seven oh two. 66 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: Here's what I think. Let me know if you agree 67 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 2: or disagree. I think this is a victory for Iran. 68 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: Do you know how many deadlines President Trump said against Iran? 69 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: About five or so, and he didn't follow through on them. 70 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: In fact, he kept moving them. Is that a sign 71 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: of a man in control? The way he's been posting 72 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 2: on social media, clearly frustrated, using profanity, mocking the religion 73 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: of the Iranians, all of that another sign of a 74 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: man who has strategy. So I think the US was 75 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: out maneuvered here. Strategically. They didn't have the foresight of 76 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: Iran weaponizing victory I mean, or weaponizing the Strait of Homus, 77 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 2: is what I mean to say. And I think this 78 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: is a strategic victory for Iran. And here's why I 79 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: think so. And I'm interested in your thoughts. There's strategic 80 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 2: goals of this war from the US side. Let's take 81 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: a few steps back. What were the goals of this war? 82 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 2: They have shifted from Iran may attackers. We don't want 83 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,799 Speaker 2: them to have a nuclear weapon to open the Strait 84 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: of Hormuz. So if Iran opens the Strait of Hormus 85 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 2: but keeps its nuclear enrichment program, is America now going 86 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: to be okay with that? Because that's no longer a demand. 87 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 2: Have you noticed that it's all about opening the Strait 88 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 2: of Hormus? Now, that's what the noise is about. Iran 89 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 2: has always been clear about its goals in this war. 90 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: Remember I said to you on the first week of 91 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 2: the war, when we spoke on the open Line, I said, 92 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: I think Iran's strategy seems to be to internationalize the war, 93 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: to increase the collective price of the conflict, so that 94 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 2: this becomes sort of a war against the entire global economy. 95 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 2: And I think the idea was to have as many 96 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: countries as possible affected so that they can put pressure 97 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: on the US to and the war, which is why 98 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 2: you saw them targeting other Gulf countries, disrupting travel, affecting 99 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: energy infrastructure, et cetera. And then of course the world's 100 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: most critical oil shipping route being effectively close. It's so 101 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: funny because this is like a thirty three kilometer or 102 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: so area, but it holds enough power to shake the 103 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: entire world, and the entire world world has been shaking 104 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 2: because it handles a quarter of the world's seaborne oil trade, 105 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 2: about a fifth of the world's supply of LNG, the 106 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: liquefied natural gas, So this war has effectively paralyzed it. 107 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: Almost no ships have been entering or exiting the Strait 108 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: of Homos, which means higher oil prices gas prices, which 109 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: will then only push up inflation. And America itself, by 110 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: the way, is not shielded from the impact, even though 111 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: it doesn't heavily rely on the Strait of Homos for 112 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: energy security, but because of how oil is priced, they 113 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: are affected. It's a global pricing system. So Iran has 114 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: managed to put pressure on the US through the Strait 115 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: of Homos. And I really think that's it for me. 116 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: This war has handed a weapon to Iran that is 117 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: far usable than a nuclear webpon and that's the Strait 118 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 2: of Homos that's choking up global oil supply and disrupting 119 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 2: the global economy. It's a choke point. And for forty 120 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: seven years, if you look at the relationship between Iran 121 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,679 Speaker 2: and America, for forty seven years of these tensions, Iran 122 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: has never closed the Strait of a Moose or used 123 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: it as leverage, but now it has and the US 124 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: wants it open. So President Donald Trump put himself in 125 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 2: a corner here, and I really think we need to 126 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: also have a conversation about the demands of the US 127 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 2: and Iran, because I honestly think they are not practical 128 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: at all. They are unrealistic. Reports in America indicate that 129 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 2: Trump's fifteen point plan includes dismantling key Iranian nuclear facilities. 130 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 2: That plan by Trump includes a permanent ban on nuclear development, 131 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: the opening of the Strait of Hermose, limitations on ballistic 132 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: missiles Iran. When they looked at this plan initially, they said, 133 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 2: this is unreasonable. Look at what Iran is demanding in 134 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: return their ten point plan. Iran's ten point plan includes 135 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: the withdrawal of the US forces from the Gulf region. 136 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? America is never gonna allow that. 137 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 2: Their plan includes continued control of the Strait of Homus, 138 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: cessation of war on all frants including Lebanon. You think 139 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: Israel would be okay with that, acceptance of Iran's uranium 140 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 2: enrichment program, lifting of all sanctions against Iran. That's what 141 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: Iranians are demanding and I just think both these are 142 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 2: not realistic at all, but I guess it's part of negotiations. 143 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: What do you think? Let's talk oh one, eight, eight, 144 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: three oh seven oh two, what's up? Seven two, seven 145 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: oh two and seven two. At ten o'clock we're going 146 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 2: to take you Live to America for the latest when 147 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: I take You Live too, hopefully to Iran as well 148 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 2: to get reaction and analysis on the big on this 149 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 2: big developing story. And then eight eleven o'clock we're gonna 150 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: do our Listener's Choice feature. Today we're discussing tenants rights 151 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: and responsibilities in South Africa. And then we wrap up 152 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: the show at eleven thirty with the sharing space. What 153 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: do you do when you simply don't have capacity to 154 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 2: support a friend who's going through the most because you're 155 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 2: also going through the most, but they're demanding so much 156 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: of you. Well, there's a story we've received that speaks 157 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 2: to this very conundrum. I'm going to read you that 158 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 2: email at eleven thirty and get your thoughts on our 159 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 2: Sharing Space feature. That's the show coming up over the 160 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 2: next three hours. 161 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: Clement Manya Tela streaming on the Prime media plus. 162 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: Ad DearS TV Channel eight five ninety two seven And. 163 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 4: Clement, is this ceisfire between Iran and the United States 164 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 4: and Israel or just Iran and the United States. I 165 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 4: think history shows how Israel treats his fires, and I'm 166 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 4: just wondering if Israel will it here to this sea 167 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 4: is fire and not fire or not attack Iran as well. 168 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 4: I'm wondering how that's going to play out in this 169 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 4: conflict as well, just based on history and what history 170 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 4: has proven to us. 171 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 5: Great morning, Clement, Patty spayview. This is a win situation 172 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 5: because including us, the ordinary people in the street and 173 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 5: the world, because already we were feeling the pinch. 174 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: So it's great. 175 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 5: Let's see what happens in the next two weeks. 176 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 6: Good morning, Clement and all the seven or two lenders. 177 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 6: This is Emma from Pretoria knit ourll. I spend the 178 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 6: whole night, whole night, waiting for two am, and then 179 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 6: this happens. I'm a little disappointed because. 180 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 7: It means we're going to have to do this over again. 181 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 6: We know what has happened in the past during negotiations 182 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 6: that were going very well. We know Americans is going 183 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 6: to bomb all negotiators. 184 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 8: We know that. 185 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 6: We know that Israel is not going to stop bombing Iran, 186 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 6: It's not going to stop bombing Liban, and it's not 187 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 6: going to stop bombing Gaza. 188 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 2: We know that. 189 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 6: But on the upside, the winners of this war is Iran. 190 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 6: And I say that because the stage of amus was 191 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 6: opened before this war started. And I'm saying that because 192 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 6: can you imagine they got into this war knowing that 193 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 6: they are bound by the USA the sanction against them, 194 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 6: they came up with some sanctions. 195 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: Thirdly, the third. 196 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 6: Contagious issue was the uranium. 197 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 9: They still have it. 198 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 6: So Iran one, I do not see what technical win 199 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 6: America God cannit to the emperor is naked, Thank you 200 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 6: so much. 201 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 2: Hey, let's see, let's wait and see. So I mean, 202 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: and Iran wants to continue with its enrichment. That's part 203 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 2: of their demands as they go into negotiations with the US. 204 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 2: The US on the other side says, you have to 205 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 2: stop all of your enrichment. And that's why I'm saying 206 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: these are just simply not practical. I mean, Iran, after 207 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 2: being attacked like it's been by Israel and America, why 208 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 2: would they be naive to let go of their missiles 209 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 2: and their enrichment when they know how vulnerable they can be, 210 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 2: even with Israel, for instance, why would Israel let go 211 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 2: of its nukes or it's missiles knowing how vulnerable Israel 212 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: also is to some of Iran's proxies. I wonder what 213 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 2: compromise is going to be reached, and I worry that 214 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 2: this is buying time. I'm not sure what it looks 215 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 2: like on the other side, but I don't see Iran 216 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: agreeing that they will not have enrichment. I don't see 217 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 2: Iran agreeing to give up control of the Strait of Homos. 218 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 2: I don't see Iran agreeing to the limitations on its 219 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: ballistic missiles. But also I don't see America also just 220 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 2: agreeing that Iran must continue with its uranium enrichment program. 221 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 2: I don't see America agreeing that there must be a 222 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 2: cessation of war on all fronts, even including in Lebanon 223 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: or in Yemen. I don't see the US agreeing to 224 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: Iran's demand that US forces must be withdrawn from the 225 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 2: Gulf region. So what compromise are these two parties going 226 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: to reach. MJ you call him from Pretoria, what do 227 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: you think. 228 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 9: I Germans, look, I think for me, Let's give it 229 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 9: to Iran. Number one. Iran was fighting two countries that 230 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 9: I'm very powerful militarily. Number two, Trump realized that Iran 231 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 9: means business because remember clements, Iran managed to restore their 232 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 9: air defense system. Hence they downed three US jet last week, 233 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 9: so Trumps knew that it was not necessarily going to 234 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 9: be an easy passage this type. Number three, Iran, through 235 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 9: the streak of Romus, imposed that all ships that are 236 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 9: going to pass they they will no longer pay in 237 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 9: US dollars, they will pay in Chinese yen. That was 238 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 9: a victory because now America was starting to feel the pinch. 239 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 9: Like you mentioned earlier, Iran acually managed to penetrate the 240 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 9: Israeli air defense system and inflicted a heavy damage which 241 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 9: the media is not showing because it is not allowed 242 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 9: so and they did not only inflict damage in Israel, 243 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 9: they managed to destroy some of the air bases in 244 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 9: the region which are not actually even fully sohn they 245 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 9: managed to is the American embassy stuff out of Kuwait 246 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 9: and Iraq, so it was not then You're going to 247 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 9: be an easy one for Trump this type. So I'll 248 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 9: give it to Iran, because if you look at the 249 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 9: demands that Trump imposed, Lana's never changed the region. 250 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: Trump says. Trump says, in fact, let me read you 251 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: from the what he posted yesterday, he says, and I 252 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 2: caught here. We have already met and exceeded all our 253 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: military objectives, which is suspicious, MG, because if if really 254 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: America has met its military objective, they are done in Iran, 255 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: then is they run regime really changed? And what is 256 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: the evidence of that? But also number two, if you 257 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 2: have exceeded all your military objectives, why in your demands 258 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: going into this negotiation, are you asking them to limit 259 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: their ballistic missiles? Are you asking them to stop with 260 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 2: their uranium enrichment? That tells you that the military objectives 261 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 2: of the US have not been mad. That's why now 262 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 2: they're using this negotiation to try and push over the line. 263 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 9: And Clement, if you mentioned two weeks ago that you 264 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 9: have obliterated all the military resources, why are you then 265 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 9: asking them now to to to to live me their 266 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 9: military Because he is away of the damage those ballistic 267 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 9: missilesments you will see with time they have actually caused 268 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 9: a huge damage in Tel Aviv and Hi Fi. So 269 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 9: he said, they have this, the Iranian military capacity. Why 270 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,239 Speaker 9: hasn't Why then, now do you ask forces fire if 271 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 9: you have I exactly made a mistake. He undermined Iran. 272 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 9: That is the problem. 273 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: I think he didn't also have proper intelligence. M Jane Pettoria, 274 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 2: thank you, he did. I think I agree with that. 275 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 2: He absolutely undermined Iran. He didn't have a proper strategy 276 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 2: going into this war. That's why. By the way, go 277 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: check out the polls in America. Various polls are indicating 278 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 2: that Americans don't support the war. In fact, I remember 279 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 2: in Iraq, back in Iraq and back back in the day, 280 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: there were Americans were asked in polls, do you support 281 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 2: America going into war with Iraq? Eighty two or so percent? 282 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken, Americans were like, yes in Iran, 283 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 2: in that's what that was Iraq, and then there's another 284 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 2: country I'm forgetting now where they also asked, what do 285 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 2: you think of America going into war? They said, I 286 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 2: think at about seventy percent or so, they said let's 287 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: go in there. And it was, of course after a 288 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 2: few years after September eleventh, So you understand why Americans 289 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 2: felt we need revenge. We need to do something and 290 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 2: get to the people that cost that devastation for America. 291 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 2: But right now, when you look at the polls right now, 292 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: various poles are indicating Americans don't support this war. I 293 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 2: think the numbers are had about thirty something percent. Only 294 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: thirty something percent of Americans, according to the various poles, 295 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 2: are saying we support the war. And one of the 296 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 2: reasons why those who don't support it are saying they 297 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 2: don't is that they're saying, it's not been clear why 298 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 2: America is in this war. Why is that the case? 299 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 2: Because we've been getting all sorts of different explanations. Even 300 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: the head of intelligence in America said, we don't really 301 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 2: have intelligence that indicates that Iran was close to building 302 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 2: a nuclear weapon. Then the question is why did you attack? 303 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: Because you've already said Iran was a threat to America. 304 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: If there's no evidence from the IAEA, from the head 305 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 2: of Intelligence of America that Iran was close to building 306 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 2: that nuclear weapon, then what would be your intention then 307 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 2: your goal on going to bomb that country? Thompson, you're 308 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: and midrand. 309 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 7: Hi Clement morning are shop shop man? 310 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 9: Go ahead, All right, man. 311 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 7: Clement, here is my take on this wood. At the 312 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 7: end of the day, there's no winner. You know, in conflicts, 313 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 7: you're gonna have people who are gonna support the other side. 314 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 7: And when I have other people supporting the other side, 315 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,719 Speaker 7: it really doesn't matter. The vitari is peace because at 316 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 7: the end of the day, we just want to be 317 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 7: in a world that is peaceful. There's a lot of 318 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 7: dynamics that are happening that led into this war, and 319 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 7: we know this. I mean, for years, this was a 320 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 7: longcoming war between Iran, Israel, and America. It's not something 321 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 7: that started with a Trump But I just I don't 322 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 7: know when people say this is a Trump wall, where 323 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 7: have they been because this has been going on for years. 324 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 7: Iran has always been threatening to obliterate Israel out of 325 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 7: the map. Israel has been threatening to take Iran out 326 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 7: of the map. The Americans have always thirteen that they 327 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 7: would protect Israeli. All of course, this has been happening 328 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 7: for years, the climate. So I don't know why people 329 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 7: I think there's this type of fixation on Trump when 330 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 7: people forget the bigger picture. There's always a bigger picture 331 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 7: in all these things. 332 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 4: This this. 333 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 7: Meeglely is dynamics and depending on how you understand them. 334 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 7: As I'm saying that, you'll find people supporting Iran, you'll 335 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 7: find other people supporting Israel and America. But the bottom 336 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 7: line is we did not need a war in this world, 337 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 7: but it was long time coming. And for me, if 338 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 7: you ask who's the victor, yeah, I would say peace 339 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 7: is the victor, irrespective of who claims they have won 340 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 7: in their side. I mean the Americans if we are 341 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 7: being honest, the clement if you look at the in 342 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 7: terms of wars, there is no way that Iran can 343 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 7: can can can take on the Americans. It's just a 344 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 7: question how far, how how much do the Americans want 345 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 7: to go into Iran. That's just the question because the 346 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 7: reality is the Americans, the weapons that they have, they 347 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 7: can finish Iran in two. 348 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 2: Days, and that's really the consequences and they have to 349 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 2: weigh that as well as America. So it's not really 350 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 2: a question of can we defeat them or not. Of 351 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 2: course they can, but it wouldn't be the consequences of. 352 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 7: That exactly, which is why isn't them when they go 353 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 7: into those wars they have to consider a whole lot 354 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 7: of things. It's like these negotiations right now. Obviously at 355 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 7: some point the Americans will also have to back off 356 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 7: because they're avoiding serious consequences. Do you understand at the 357 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 7: end of the day, there is no winner in this 358 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 7: thing except for peace. Peace is whether Iran Iran claims Weektory. 359 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 7: I mean, for me, the way they we're behaving, they 360 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 7: were behaving recklessly because they adopted this attitude that they 361 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 7: want to fight Israel and America and then they want 362 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 7: to bring everyone else down. I mean during the world 363 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 7: I mean, it was ridiculous the way Iran was going 364 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 7: on for me, you know. 365 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 2: Because that was their leverage. Thompson. When you don't have 366 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 2: the weapons that can match up America's weapons, you have 367 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 2: to think strategically about how else you're going to put pressure. 368 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 2: That's that's why. 369 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 7: But then that's that proves the point that they should 370 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 7: not be allowed to have a new care weapon, because 371 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 7: if you're going to have a country that behaves in 372 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 7: this manner, then god knows if they had that U 373 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,719 Speaker 7: care weapon, what they were going to do. I mean, 374 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 7: you you you when when you when you're in a 375 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 7: war with the country, I mean, countries fight all over. 376 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 7: Russia fights Ukraine, whatever they fight, they are specific targets 377 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 7: that the you know, these countries depending on what type 378 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 7: of war they fighting. But if you look at what 379 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 7: Iran has been doing for me, if you ask me, 380 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 7: they were very reckless and now they were fighting this 381 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 7: war because now they adopted an attitude that they want 382 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 7: to bring the entire world down together with them. Now 383 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 7: for me and I understand that they were doing that 384 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 7: out of disperation because they know they don't have the 385 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 7: weapons that the Americans is But you then ask yourself 386 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 7: what kind of mentality in attitude? I was looking at 387 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 7: what they were posting the other time. They were in 388 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 7: that bridge putting women and children. How do you put 389 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 7: the women and children on the firing firing? 390 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 2: Why are we saying they're putting women and children Thomson, 391 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 2: Why are you not saying they are women who have 392 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 2: decided and men. It wasn't just women in fact on 393 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: the bridges there were other bridges where there are lots 394 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 2: of men who were lining up. But why are you 395 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 2: saying they're putting them there as opposed to there are 396 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 2: people there who may support the regime who are there, 397 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: and there are people who may not support the regime, 398 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 2: which is also true, and I really think Thompson, I 399 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 2: absolutely hear what you say about peace is the winner. 400 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: I just disagree slightly on the strategy that the two 401 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 2: countries take in war. You always have to be strategic. 402 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 2: If you are dealing with a powerful country like the 403 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 2: United States, you cannot match them with weapons. If they're 404 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 2: just gonna come and attack you, even though they've claimed 405 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 2: they've obliterated your nuclear infrastructure, you've got to think of 406 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 2: other ways to put pressure on them. Because they're putting 407 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: pressure on you through their weapons, you've got to think 408 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: of other ways. And as unfair as those ways can be. 409 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 2: Because I'm sure you agree that it's unfair on the 410 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: US to be bombing civilians. I mean, they are girls 411 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,719 Speaker 2: who had died, who have died, young girls who had 412 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 2: nothing to do with this war. That's unfair. Similarly, so 413 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 2: it is unfair what Iran would do where they disrupt 414 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 2: the global economy. But that's the nature of war, unless 415 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 2: you're suggesting that Israan was supposed to just Iran was 416 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 2: supposed to just fold its arms and look the other 417 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 2: way while America bombs it and not come up with 418 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: its own strategy. 419 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 7: No, no, no, of course, of course not clemen. That's 420 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 7: why I'm saying for me, at the end of the day, 421 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 7: peace is the winna yet because this war, yea, peace 422 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 7: was long time coming. It was just a you know 423 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 7: how was going to be all right? 424 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: Terms on? Let me let me cut it there. I 425 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 2: just saw the time. I'm completely out of out of 426 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 2: time seven two. 427 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: What's up, clement on seven to two seven o two 428 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: one seven two. 429 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 2: Hey, it's going up to twenty minutes now before ten otlock. 430 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 2: This is the seven or two open line. We've been 431 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 2: reflecting so far on the big developing story. This morning 432 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: we woke up with a huge sense of relief. I 433 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 2: can tell you that much. I actually had to wake 434 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 2: up at two a m. This morning to check, okay, 435 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 2: that's the deadline, what has been agreed, because I was 436 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: also worried that I may wake up to really a 437 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 2: country that's been flattened and civilians that have been killed, 438 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 2: and really it was a huge sense of relief to 439 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 2: see that there's a cease fire now for two weeks. 440 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 2: The straight of her moves will be open for two weeks, 441 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 2: while negotiating their texts will also stopped for two weeks, 442 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 2: while the two countries, Iran and America negotiate. So I'll 443 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 2: continue taking your calls on that on one one eighty 444 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: three seven two your what'sap on seven two seven two 445 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 2: one seven oh two. By the way, something else I 446 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 2: wanted your thoughts on is what's happening in the UK 447 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 2: with Kanye West, the American rapper. So he has been 448 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 2: barred from entering the United Kingdom by the UK government 449 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 2: and this decision has had quite significant consequences, including the 450 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: cancelation of the highly anticipated Wireless Festival where he was 451 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 2: actually scheduled to headline. And according to the UK Home Offers, 452 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 2: the decision is based on concerns that his presence would 453 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 2: not be conducive to public good and they've cited a 454 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 2: series of the past anti Semitic remarks. Kanye has made 455 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 2: controversial public statements as well, and in recent years we've 456 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 2: become accustomed to what is often referred to as this 457 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 2: console culture right where artists will face consequences driven by 458 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 2: public sentiments, whether through consumer boycodes or corporate disassociation, event 459 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 2: cancelations initiated by organizers you name it. And this situation 460 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 2: is different because the state itself is effectively preventing an 461 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 2: artist from entering a country based on their conduct and speech. 462 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 2: So what do you think of how the UK has 463 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 2: handled this, Like do you believe that it's reasonable and 464 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 2: proportionate response to like humful rhetoric, because can your West 465 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 2: has come out to say I've got bipolar, I've got 466 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 2: a medical condition. It's the one that's really made me, 467 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 2: you know, say the terrible things I've stayed said, anti 468 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 2: Semitic stuff, racist things I've said I've said in the past, 469 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 2: and I wonder if you think they should be grace 470 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 2: towards him and look, as someone who's always been Kanye 471 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 2: West fan, I've had to divorce him for a while 472 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 2: because I wasn't happy with the trajectory he's been taking. 473 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 2: So at some point I was on a breakup with 474 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 2: Kanye West up until recently when he came out again 475 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 2: and said I'm sorry, and I thought, let me give 476 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 2: him another chance. Maybe he means it this time, and 477 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 2: he said he's committed to doing things. That shows that 478 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 2: he now understands better. Right. I don't like the stuff 479 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 2: he has said about black people and slavery. I hated 480 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 2: that because it wasn't nuanced, it was so naive and 481 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 2: quite stupid to be honest, to say what you said 482 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: about black people in America who are slaves, and whether 483 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 2: or not that was a choice right. I don't like 484 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: what he has said, even about the Jewish people, So 485 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 2: I've always felt I'm not sure about the direction he's taking, 486 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 2: but he shouldn't That be our responsibility, then, as fans 487 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 2: of these artists, to decide whether we boycott them or not. 488 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 2: Do you need a government to come in? Do you 489 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 2: think that is reasonable? And given that KNYA West has 490 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 2: apologized and said the struggles with bipolar disorder are the 491 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 2: reason for his conduct, or do you think that conduct 492 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 2: is unforgivable despite of that apology? And does this constitute 493 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: an overreach of government authority into the realm of art 494 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 2: an expression? Let me know your thoughts please, Oh one 495 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 2: one eight day three oh seven oh two? What's ups on? 496 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 2: Seven two seven two one seven two? Jabu, Let's go 497 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 2: to you. You're calling us from Shapville. What do you 498 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 2: want to say about what happened overnight? 499 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 10: Good morning, Yes, Clement, A very big sigh of relief 500 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 10: and a victory, A victory not only for Iran but 501 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 10: for the entire global population that is for peace, you know. 502 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 10: And Iran only stood against the tyranny of the Americans 503 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 10: that we have been experiencing, against the many people we 504 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 10: also in South Africa have experienced that. And I'm referring 505 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 10: to the American supremacy and also looking at what Israel 506 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 10: has been doing, you know, against all its neighbors, you know, 507 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 10: as as as Zionists. You know, they have been also 508 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 10: putting some kind of racist attitude towards their neighbors. And 509 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 10: I'm saying and that Iran actually showed the entire world 510 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 10: and also it's it's Islamic neighbors that it can stand 511 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 10: against tyranny. And I also want to think, you know, 512 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 10: in hindsight, the the force behind all this victory that 513 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 10: Iran has achieved, and and that comes in the form 514 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 10: of two countries that has been supplying Iran with intelligence, 515 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 10: you know, with regard to its defense against the tyranny 516 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 10: of Israel, and that has been coming through the Caspian Sea, 517 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 10: you know, with them supplying equipment, machinery and weaponry that 518 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 10: actually allowed Iran to stand against this tyranny. 519 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 2: All right, Trouble in Shabville, Thank you for your thoughts. 520 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 2: Sammy you're calling us from Centurion. What do you want 521 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 2: to say about the UK government and its decision on 522 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 2: Canyo West. 523 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 11: Yeah, government, I just find it crazy because this is 524 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 11: the wird thing you k Calvin. There a lot of 525 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 11: gangs started us to commit to the country and perform. 526 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 11: We know what gangs started is all about your repitity 527 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 11: to and we know what gangs started. We've seen teenagers 528 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 11: saving commuter clients and it's been proven that they they've 529 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 11: been motivated by gang started. It's been proven this countlesx 530 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 11: conseers right. And then another thing clment is this it's 531 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 11: interesting that you can make all sorts of things. You 532 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 11: can say everything about women, men, Muslims, Christians and stuff. 533 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 11: They also directly Cristians about them. The kay government does 534 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 11: never turned anything about anything any producer. But then fadingly, 535 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 11: there's this specific category of people all over the world, 536 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 11: and it's not only the UK. When you touch them, 537 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 11: the the the Jews, the fly that's an uproar and 538 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 11: people have seen a whole lot of podcasts. People that 539 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 11: are informational. People are getting tired of these things that 540 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 11: I can say something about domene, I can make drugs 541 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 11: about domine or say something about them. 542 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 7: They're being more. 543 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 11: Women are being oppressed for hundreds of years more than 544 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 11: the Jews that he and then you you can get cancelts, 545 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 11: but it's not it doesn't come to this extent. You 546 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 11: can say something about people who stuff, like people who 547 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 11: stuff at colonialism, even some stuff. Why don't a sudden 548 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 11: when it comes to chews them, A suddenly, oh there's 549 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 11: an outreach. 550 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 9: This is crazy. 551 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 11: Then a suddenly the concept has been concert A whole 552 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 11: lot of people suffered. 553 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 7: It's not only. 554 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 11: Carlia was just gonna suffer. 555 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 7: I mean, this is crazy. 556 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 11: It's like booming a little place because you wanted to 557 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 11: one person. 558 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, looks say, I mean, yeah, it's it's so, it's 559 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 2: I I really find that at least the responsibility has 560 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 2: followed us, like we are the people that must decide 561 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 2: whether we want to boycott that concept or not. Like 562 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 2: there are people who have decided. Remember there was that 563 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 2: guy who and and of course this is a different example. 564 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 2: Remember there was this guy who has Turret's condition. A 565 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 2: Turret's condition where you can end up saying things that 566 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 2: you don't really mean and at an award ceremony. I 567 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 2: think they're in the UK. This man shouted the N word. 568 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 2: It's the terrets syndrome. Yes, thank you, And I just 569 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 2: feel like that was quite wild, right, But at least 570 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 2: there was an explanation of oh, this is a syndrome, 571 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 2: and this is of course how it affects you. But 572 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 2: there are people that have actually been given that man 573 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 2: a lot of grace to say, oh, he's got a condition. 574 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 2: And I mean with Kanye West. He says I've got 575 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 2: a condition. I'm accepting and I'm willing to do the work. 576 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 2: And it's been interesting to observe how much grace is 577 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 2: not so much given to Kanye West. And that's not 578 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 2: to say the things that he has done are not wild. 579 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 2: They are. As I said, I've really been offended myself 580 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 2: by the stuff that he has said about black people, 581 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 2: about slavery, and it's being a choice. I don't like 582 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 2: what he has said about other groups of people, including 583 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 2: the Jewish people. He has made anti He has made 584 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 2: anti Semitic comments before, and I think he must be 585 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 2: held accountable for that. But if you are going to 586 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 2: take a model position like that as a UK government, 587 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 2: then be consistent about it. So if there's an artist 588 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 2: who comes tomorrow who's also made disparaging remarks against a 589 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 2: certain another group. Are you going to take a similar position, 590 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 2: How does it work? And at what point do we 591 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 2: draw that line to avoid a situation where government now 592 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 2: becomes our nanni's second nanny state. Now, No, I've got 593 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 2: a right to make up my own decision about whether 594 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 2: I want to go to Chris Brown's concert or not. 595 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 2: And there are other people who may decide I don't 596 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 2: want to go to Chris Brown's concert because I think 597 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 2: he's a woman abuser, like has been claimed here by 598 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 2: some of some organizations GBV organizations, which is fine. But 599 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 2: the beauty about that in the constitutional democracy we live 600 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 2: in is there is freedom for all of you. You 601 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 2: can decide, you can decide what you want to do. 602 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 2: It's ten minutes before ten o'clock, seven minutes in the 603 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 2: Clements Manela Show, Let's walk, Let's talk. 604 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 8: I'm not really sure that Canyo West anti Semitic utterances 605 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 8: can be solely attributed to his bipolar I think he 606 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 8: has recanted his statements due to the financial loss that 607 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 8: ensued after his actions, So I'm not really sure if 608 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 8: his apology is genuine, And so those that were hurt 609 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 8: by him. It's up to them to decide whether they 610 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 8: accept his apology. But I also think the government's intervention 611 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 8: is justified because there's a segment of the community in 612 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,439 Speaker 8: that region that does not want him to come there. 613 00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 8: So as suppose the government is standing up for that community, But. 614 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 2: What about the segment of the community that has accepted 615 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 2: his apology and wants him to come Huh. 616 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 5: I get you. 617 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 2: Look, when Kanye West apologized, I spoke about it on 618 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 2: the show and we had a discussion on the open line, 619 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 2: and I was on the first one to say, I 620 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 2: am not sure whether I trust him this time around. 621 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 2: I'm not sure because we've been here before where he 622 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 2: will say sorry and then he comes back again. But 623 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 2: isn't that really what is part of the condition of bipolar. 624 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 2: I don't understand that much about bipolar to be able 625 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 2: to say conclusively whether or not you know, that's one 626 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 2: of the things you get subjected to in as as 627 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,320 Speaker 2: your conduct is concerned. But even me, I was very skeptical. 628 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 2: I'm not sure does he mean it this time around? 629 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 2: But if you're saying the UK government can intervene because 630 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,800 Speaker 2: there's a segment in the community, that really feels offended 631 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 2: by this man. What about the segment in the community 632 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 2: that says, well, we're gonna give him grace and accept 633 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 2: his apology and see how it goes this time around. 634 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:15,800 Speaker 2: M Yeah, that's just what I think here. And I 635 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 2: do think Kanya needs to do better because one of 636 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 2: the comments I made when he apologized was I hope 637 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 2: he's not doing this because of the concept that was 638 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 2: upcoming at the time. I don't know if you've seen 639 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,359 Speaker 2: the concerts in America and America that you pulled. I mean, 640 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 2: he had sold out shows for two days, sold out 641 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 2: shows and then he apologized just a couple of months 642 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 2: before then. And if you understand how creatives do things 643 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 2: in America, how would even work. So there's always going 644 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 2: to be a bit of drama before an artist releases 645 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 2: something or before a big movie comes out, because they 646 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 2: want to grab your attention. And a part of me 647 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 2: felt like that's exactly what Kanye West was doing. But 648 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 2: there realities there are people who've accepted his apology. There 649 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,240 Speaker 2: are people who choose we want to go to his concert. 650 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 2: Why must the government decide on behalf of those people? 651 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 12: But it breaks my heart to disagree with you this one, No, Ken, 652 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 12: I think he I mean, he says that he had bipolar. 653 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:19,760 Speaker 2: That's not an excuse. 654 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 12: I mean, you know that in law, the fact that 655 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 12: you don't know is not an excuse. There has to 656 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 12: be consequences, and whether or not government should interfere or 657 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 12: interfere it's a different case, but there has to be consequences. 658 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 12: Can you as said terrible things in the past and 659 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,720 Speaker 12: he's doubled down on them. I don't think it's because 660 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 12: now it's hurting his pocket, he's hurting his finances, hence 661 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 12: is apologizing and coming up with excuses. But I don't 662 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 12: think he means it. He knows clearly what he's talking about, 663 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 12: those eyes, world views, and he has stuck to them. 664 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 12: These are repeated mistakes. 665 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 1: They should be consequences. 666 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 2: Prince in Joe Berg, Yeah, Prince absolutely, there should be consequences. 667 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 2: But I just think that let's also try and have 668 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 2: consistency here. If you and I are going to be 669 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 2: able to understand when someone comes and says, well, I've 670 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 2: got Terret's syndrome. Remember at the Bufftus there's someone who 671 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 2: shouted the N word, A white man who shouted the 672 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 2: N word. John Davidson I think was his Name's a 673 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 2: Scottish activist with severe turrets syndrome, and he was there 674 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 2: to support I think it was a film that was 675 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,800 Speaker 2: made about his life. And part of the syndrome is 676 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 2: that you experience involuntary vocal texts like including even the 677 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 2: N word. And I'm saying, there are certain people who 678 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 2: are very quick to say, to this man, we get it, 679 00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 2: he's not racist. It's just a condition. And you've got 680 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 2: other people, whether they're friends or not of Kanye who 681 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,799 Speaker 2: are not affording him a similar grace. And these are, 682 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 2: of course completely two different people. Canye West has a 683 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 2: bigger responsibility. He's an artist, and Kanye West has said this, apologize, 684 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,879 Speaker 2: said this again, but he's saying to you, I've got 685 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 2: severe Bi Paula. So when do we decide we are 686 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 2: giving you grace? And when do we decide you don't 687 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,320 Speaker 2: deserve grace? And when do we decide as a government 688 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:34,240 Speaker 2: we're going to intervene here? And when do we decide 689 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 2: as government we're going to allow our people that we 690 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 2: represent to be the ones that decide whether they want 691 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,399 Speaker 2: to go to the concert or not. I just think 692 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 2: it's a thin line and it needs to really be clarified. 693 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 2: Imagine if our government said, Chris Brown, we don't want 694 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 2: you here, we're not allowing you in here because you 695 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,920 Speaker 2: have had incidences of beating up women. So we're listening 696 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 2: to these organizations on the ground that are saying that 697 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 2: about you. You. I just think there's a thin line there, like, 698 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 2: at what point is it government overreach and at what 699 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 2: point should just they allow you, as an individual with 700 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 2: freedoms of association, to make your own choice.