1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: For this is k Talk Talk. 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: Today's food segment is going to see us indulge in 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 2: some utterly shameless food nostalgia. I think we can call 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: it talking to somebody who is really championing South African 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: flavors and recipes and has been doing that for decades. Really, 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: because the author in question is Tony Jackman, who I 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: think leeds very little introduction to foodies, a food editor 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: and writer who has been writing for our local magazines 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: and newspapers since the nineteen seventies, and for the last 10 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: six years he's been penning the TGI food column for 11 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: Daily Maverick, and he's been doing so from the shade 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: of his home in the carew But you may be aware, 13 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: if you certainly, if you're a follower of that column, 14 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: you'll know that Tony has recently relocated out of the CAREU. 15 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: So perhaps it's no surprise that his new cookbook release 16 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 2: is a celebration of to some extent, what he has 17 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: left behind but is obviously bringing with him as well. 18 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: The book is called Retro CAREU Food eighty South African 19 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: Recipes Then and Now. And to say that this book 20 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: is a walk down memory lane is really an understatement. 21 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: If you grew up eating this kind of simple, wholesome, hearty, 22 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 2: handmade meal, if you thought a prawn cocktail or a 23 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 2: tipsy tort was the very height of elegance at one time. 24 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 2: If you know the value of mutton over lamb, for example, 25 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 2: this book is going to speak straight to your heart. 26 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: There is not a foam or a smear or a 27 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 2: deconstruction in sight. It is hearty, carew course, the kind 28 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: that gives South Africa a foodie reputation around the world. 29 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 2: And it's the kind of book that you're going to 30 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: want to send to friends and family who have left 31 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 2: South Africa, or to take with you if you are leaving, 32 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: but also to add to your kitchens right here in 33 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 2: Cape Tan. It's a huge pleasure to have Tony with 34 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: us to chat about the book at Tony Jackman joining 35 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 2: us on the phone this afternoon, and it's lovely to 36 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: have you on the show. 37 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: Tony, Hi, Pipper, what an introduction. Wow, thank you Well, 38 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: I basically delivered the whole book in one long paragraph. 39 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: Well, I hope I have left something for you to 40 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: talk about. But Tony, I mean, I'm this enthusiastic because 41 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: there were so many chapters of this book that made 42 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: me smile in recognition, because this is the kind of 43 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: food that I grew up knowing. And I mean, there 44 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: was a description in your introduction of the sort of 45 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: the grandeur of the meal eaten in a hotel restaurant 46 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 2: once upon a time, and how fancy that seemed at 47 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 2: the time, And you took me straight back to my 48 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: first table d'Hote as they called it, in the drusty 49 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: hotel in Craffrinette, remembering those days. Yeah, Tony, I mean, 50 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 2: as Marita Varafefer puts in her intro to the book, 51 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: this is simple food that brings back lost times and 52 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 2: forgotten places. How much of producing this book came out 53 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 2: of your own wish not to lose or forget the 54 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: place that you knew you were leaving after calling it 55 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: home for a decade. 56 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: That's a very interesting question. I think it really is 57 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: much deeper than that. I think that has compelled some 58 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: of the feel of the book, because I was completing 59 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: it really at a time when we had already started 60 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: planning to move back to Cape Town. It took over 61 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: a year to actually happen from their decision, and we 62 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: thought waiting for our carew house to solve that. That's 63 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: another story. But but really, I mean the carew for 64 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: me is compelling, and those those memories, and there are 65 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: so many, they're own very deep for me, and that 66 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: they I think they do for a lot of people. 67 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: And I think that I'm hoping that even for people 68 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: who obviously are younger than me, because I'm not a 69 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: chicken anymore Spring Chicken, will appreciate something that they maybe 70 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: didn't really know very well and sort of find it 71 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: through through what I write them through through this book. 72 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: You, I mean, you knew this way of cooking and 73 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: eating long before you settled in the carew As you've 74 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: just said that the the location is is sort of 75 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: a side point to the story. 76 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: Tony. 77 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: It was interesting to me reading a little bit of 78 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: your backstory and of your parents' lineage coming from Yorkshire 79 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: and the timing of their arrival in South Africa, and 80 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: the kind of food that you must have grown up eating, 81 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 2: and how there is very much a sense of overlap 82 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 2: in those food stories, even though they came from the 83 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: other side of the world. Do you want to elaborate 84 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: a little bit for our listeners. 85 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: Well, well, yes, I mean, look, I mean, there are 86 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: some things. I mean, some of our A lot of 87 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: South Africa's dishes have come from elsewhere, you know, Chuckney, 88 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: you know, from the East and certain you know, we 89 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: have French based techniques that came with various colonizers, and 90 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: we had the food that grew out of the colonial 91 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: cape kitchens, but all of the many influences in those, 92 00:04:55,320 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: including Dutch cuisine and so on, and there isn't a 93 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: algan there. But I discovered a few years ago when 94 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: I was setting to my friends Julian Detoy and Chris 95 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: Mara in Craddock and Julie said, suddenly, he said to me, 96 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: do you realize Tony, that you were born in the Kreu. 97 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: I said, no, it wasn't. I was born in Aruniment 98 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: just exactly. That is the part of the Kreu. So 99 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: that sort of culture was sort of in me. You know, 100 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: the succulent Karu of the Maquel and then even into 101 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: the lower left hand side of southern Namibia is yeah, 102 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: sort of a part of the Karu. It's interesting. 103 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,119 Speaker 2: And of course the flavor profile of the Karu lamb 104 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 2: is world famous. And I know something we fight quite 105 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: hard to protect and acknowledge as such. Tony, I mean 106 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: that that gives a very distinct edge to the meat 107 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: that is profiled in the book to some extent, But 108 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: I mean the karou hospitality, the sense of heartiness, the 109 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: sense of cooking with what is available, sometimes in very 110 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: remote places where you don't have the luxury of running 111 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: to the store to pick up, you know, something to 112 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: add to the pot, is so much part of these recipes. 113 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: And so too is something that's that's almost come full circle, 114 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: because it's very trendy now to talk about nose to 115 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: tail dining and not wasting and using every part of 116 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 2: the animal. But of course that's nothing new at all, 117 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: is it. That's been part of this way of eating 118 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: and cooking for for generations. 119 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: That always was a part of the way things are 120 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: done in the karoo, on the farms and in the kitchens, 121 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: and there's small in the house houses in the small towns, 122 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,799 Speaker 1: and the care the visit is you know, you don't 123 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: you don't. You're always welcome in a in a traditional 124 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: careo home, you don't have to call ahead, you can 125 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: just arrive, and you always arrive with something. Somebody arrives 126 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: at your door that brings something. Here's some green pig 127 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: preserves that I made. Here's a bag of fresh things 128 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: that I picked yesterday on the farm. Kind of thing, 129 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: you know, And it really does happen. It happens a lot. 130 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: You know, would walk across the road and say, how 131 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: are you doing? Are slaughters? Whatever kind of bass of 132 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: game the other day? And here's a boat for you, 133 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: here's a leg for you. And and then you you know, 134 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: the form is when you cook that you invite them around, 135 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: So come over. I'd cooking that thing. 136 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 2: So I mean some of the things that you were 137 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: cooking in preparation for this book, and they range from 138 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: you know, cooking with some of that game. And there's 139 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 2: an entire chapter on game meet and the vilde paste 140 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: with feign Flace, which takes hours and hours of preparation. 141 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 2: But I mean, that's it reads like a labor of 142 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: real love and hospitality. As you say, you're not going 143 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: to put that kind of effort into creating a dish 144 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: tony and unless you have somebody special in mind to share. 145 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: It with you, that's absolutely true. And and and and 146 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: that sharing thing again, it comes back to the gray, 147 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: the sharing nature of the carew I suppose that is 148 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: really one of the beautiful things about it. It's not 149 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: only that to the mountains, a copy in the distance, 150 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: the soft light adorn the sunset, and the bookies and 151 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: the windmills and all of those wonderful things that are 152 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: a part of the Karoo, but it's the heart and 153 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: the soul of the people as well. 154 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: Just for anybody coming in midway to this conversation, my 155 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: guest is Tony Jackman, renowned local food writer who has 156 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: just released the most gorgeous nostalgic cookbook called Retro Karoo Food, 157 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: and it is eighty South African recipes then and now, 158 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: some of them very very traditional, some of them Tony's 159 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 2: adaptations of very traditional recipes, some of them perhaps not 160 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: as well known. But I mean, you are going to 161 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: find a peppermint crisp tart and a crimora tart, and 162 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: a roast leg of Karu lamb, and obviously great advice 163 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: on how to get the best off your lamb chops 164 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 2: on the brie, for example. But you're also going to 165 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: take find modern variations on some of those dishes. And 166 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: I I mean, Tony, I know because I subscribed to 167 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: your daily Maverick newsletter. I know that you'd do you 168 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: use an air fryer in your kitchen. I'm sure a 169 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: few people will be surprised to kind a couple of 170 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: air fryer adaptations in a Carew cookbook. But one of 171 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 2: them is your granny's potato chips for example. 172 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my, my, my mom. I'll call it granny 173 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: based that that's for the kids and the grandkids, you know. Yeah, 174 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: my mom made perfect tips and they always had an 175 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: extra bit of flavor, and it was just I used 176 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: to watch her making them, and she taught me how 177 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: to make them, and now my daughter makes them. I 178 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: hope the kid, the grandkids or what they took them 179 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: that week that way. Yeah, And you know, I like 180 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: to to to bring my mom and my dad as 181 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: well into into the mix because they're there, you know what. 182 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: The things that they taught me are a part of 183 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: the book that I was to become, and I suppose 184 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: the person I was to become. It's important to me. 185 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about mutton versus tony especially. 186 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of many South Africans whose only experience of 187 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 2: buying meat these days is in a supermarket and they 188 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: don't have They seldom will see mutton on offer. They 189 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: certainly won't have the relationship with the butcher of walking 190 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 2: in And I'm saying, you know, yeah, I've got a 191 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: wonderful whatever it is, a mutton. Try to pop in 192 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 2: a poiky or into a roast. Do you want to 193 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: sing the praises of mutton? 194 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: I do? I do? And why aren't these butcheries in 195 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: the cities listening to me? Come on, guys, I'm sure 196 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: that even the butcher's in the towns in the cities 197 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: know the truth that every sheep bominos that the mutton 198 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: just has so much more flavor. It's potentially tougher, potentially, 199 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: but as with any tough cut, potentially tough cut, you 200 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,119 Speaker 1: give it more time, or you treat it a bit differently, 201 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: but you're rewarded with so much flavor. And I suppose 202 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: the benefit of it not being as popular as it 203 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: really ought to be is that it's still a bit 204 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: cheaper than lamb, and it really is. But this is 205 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: not to say that lamb isn't wonderful. I mean, the 206 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: quickly roasted leg or shoulder ad a shoulder, well, that 207 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't be quick of Lamb has a joy of its 208 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: own and mutton does not taste exactly the same. It's 209 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: sort of the same in a different sort of way. 210 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: But really, you know, I mean lamb. I used to 211 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: only ever cook lamb chops and then my farmer mates 212 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: mcratick said, why are you cooking lamb chops? You must 213 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: cook mutton chops. We'll show you and you just do 214 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: it a bit higher, give them attle bit more time 215 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: and you're rewarded with more flavor. Okay. 216 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 2: So I mean, if you are living in the career, 217 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: you have the luxury of going to somewhere like the 218 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: Marino Butchery and a craft renette, which I mean we 219 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 2: used to plan entire road trips between Portlers and Joe 220 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 2: Berg had to go via craft renette to make a 221 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: stop at that butcher. You get that relationship, you get 222 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: access to it, Tony. For somebody who wants to find 223 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 2: mutton in Cape Town, what do you recommend? Where should 224 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: they look? 225 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking, I have seen. I'm living in 226 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: the northern suburbs, in the bouty Durbanville. Yeah, and there's 227 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't name the business, but there's a lovely 228 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: butchery and very central Debonville, which really seems to take 229 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: a lot of trouble to find to find something, and 230 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: I'll show that some of the speciality butcher butcheries. And 231 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from those in Cape Town and 232 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: in Drovik for that matter, who actually do have mutton. 233 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: I'd like to know where that might be. I'm sure 234 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: it must happen somewhere, but certainly not happening in the 235 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: your regular old, you know, supermarket butchery, which is a 236 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: bitty yeah. 237 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 2: I'd love to hear from listeners who are listening to 238 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 2: this going. I know the answer to that question. If 239 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: you want to tell us where you find mutton, please 240 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 2: do you send me a WhatsApp and share the good 241 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 2: news seven two five six seven one five six seven. 242 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I can't not mention the pudding section. There's 243 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: a whole chapter on hot puddings, a whole chapter on 244 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 2: cold puddings, a chapter of its own on ice creams, 245 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 2: and one on cooking with fruit, which which which goes 246 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: from savor into sweet tony. I mean, the cremora tart 247 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: is is the stuff of legend in South Africans. In 248 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 2: South Africa, as is the peppermint crisp tart I have 249 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 2: to ask, I mean, all you whip was the ingredient 250 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: that had to go into the original peppermint crisp tart. 251 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 2: It's not. I mean, it can be found, but it's 252 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: not that readily in use available anymore. What do you 253 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 2: what do you substitute if you can't find the Arli. 254 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: One ill you know, in the case of of the 255 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: Cremora tart, it really is the coffee creamer you know 256 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: by that name, that is not on top of the fridge, 257 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: that one, or not inside the fridge. But you know, 258 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: I mean I would I would I tend to go 259 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: for actual cream cream. I don't. I don't use audio whip. 260 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: You know. Maybe that makes you but of a stick 261 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: in the mind. But it is available. It's certainly it's 262 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: it's in the in the in the spa, in credit 263 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: plenty of I think it depends. 264 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: Where you are, probably based on the demand for peppermint 265 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: crisp start in the surrounding community. Okay, that's good news, 266 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: So you can still find it if you want to 267 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 2: do the oat with with the early web. If you 268 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: had to eat one dish out of this book as 269 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: your last meal on the planet, Tony, what would. 270 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: It be it's my cuman lamb in there. I think 271 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: it is. 272 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: Yes, it is okay, that would be the right shoulder 273 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: of that human. Amazing look. I mean, the meat recipes 274 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: are fantastic, but I do want to mention there are 275 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: also some really wonderful vegetable dishes and side dishes and 276 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: the like in this book as well. So if you 277 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: are a vegetarian, don't just dismiss it. Do stop and 278 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: take a look and you will find find yourself. Just 279 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 2: leave yourself some time when you pick up the first copy, 280 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 2: because if like me, you're going to go down the 281 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: rabbit hole of memories that evokes, it's going to be 282 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 2: a lengthy read. Tony. It's I mean, an absolutely gorgeous 283 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: dish book. The last thing I want to ask you 284 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: before we must wrap up is who your intended audience is, 285 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: or was when you were compiling it is are you 286 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: hoping to get South Africans leaning into the nostalgia and 287 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: bringing these dishes perhaps back onto the table if they've 288 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 2: fallen out of use or is it many and those away? 289 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: One hundred percent? That because I picked up during my 290 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: recipe writing over the past few years for Daily Maverick. 291 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: You pick up the trends and you can see the 292 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: numbers of what how many people are reading which recipe 293 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: or story, and if it's certain kinds of dishes, the 294 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: traditional dishes, they fly and that tells me that people 295 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: are interested in those, and to me, I think it's 296 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: a trend, a real trend that I'm sort of locked into, 297 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: I suppose. And it's also for people visiting well, you 298 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, people visiting South Africa who might want something 299 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: that would represent a souvenir to take back, but also 300 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: for South Africans elsewhere in the world. It's very much 301 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: for them as well. And I'm happy to say that 302 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: there are plans for it to be available in the 303 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: US and the UK, and I'm so gobsmacked and thrilled 304 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: about that. 305 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 2: I am too, Tony. I think of a few family 306 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 2: members who are going to be first in line to 307 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: pick up a copy if we don't get them one 308 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: for Christmas first. Tony Jackman is the author of Retro 309 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: Caru Food. Our best wishes to you, Tony, and thank 310 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: you for an absolutely gorgeous nostalgia filled book. It's good, 311 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: its course, care course. It wraps its arms around you 312 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: and gives you a hug and just tastes like Home. 313 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: Tony Jackman, the author. It's published by Penguin Random House 314 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 2: and is just hitting the shelves as we speak. You 315 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 2: will find it retailing at around about four hundred and 316 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 2: twenty rand a copy.