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Speaker 1: You're listening to the best of The Money.

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Speaker 2: Show, the Mine Show. Welcome to the Best Bits of

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Speaker 2: the Money Show, a digest of some of the best thoughts, comments, insights,

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Speaker 2: and interviews from the show this week. If you'd like

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Speaker 2: to hear more, please go to our website or your

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Speaker 2: podcast app and search for The Money Show. Would be

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Speaker 2: nice as well if you shared it with someone you

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Speaker 2: thought might find it interesting. Might be that neighbor might

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Speaker 2: start a nice conversation. Could well be a good conversation

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Speaker 2: starter for you to start. Some of the news stories

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Speaker 2: that we thought were interesting and important from the week

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Speaker 2: that was there was the invest in Africa mining in Daba.

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Speaker 2: So many people were there this week. Lots of conversations

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Speaker 2: about extracting minerals, about investment, about financial models, but also

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Speaker 2: about ensuring that mining drives inclusive growth and strengthens communities.

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Speaker 2: Lots of talk about that this week. The private equity

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Speaker 2: firm Haruth General Partners spending some money we don't know

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Speaker 2: how much on the airline fly Sapphire their expanded their

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Speaker 2: trans portfolio on the continent. And the energy regulator finally

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Speaker 2: incorporating the mistake that it made ESKN won that court

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Speaker 2: case it seems to win them all against nurser. As

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Speaker 2: a result, electricity prices this year are going up by

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Speaker 2: eight point seven six percent from April. They'll go by

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Speaker 2: something similar next year. Very very expensive mistake. Tonight we

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Speaker 2: bring you a mixture of stories from the world of

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Speaker 2: money from the week that has been in personal finance.

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Speaker 2: This week we're on Ingram, the certified financial planner at

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Speaker 2: Galileo Capital, looked at buying a new home. There are

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Speaker 2: so many hidden costs, things you don't expect. You also

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Speaker 2: had some interesting comments and some of the longer term

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Speaker 2: considerations that everyone should keep an eye.

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Speaker 3: I think if you're going to stay in a house

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Speaker 3: for eight years or longer, probably ten years longer as

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Speaker 3: to be safe, then you should really think about buying

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Speaker 3: a home. But it's something we always need to talk

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Speaker 3: about because there are a lot of people in South

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Speaker 3: Africa who who just can't get away from bricks and water.

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Speaker 3: It's the thing they want to buy more than anything else,

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Speaker 3: so we need to help them think about it.

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Speaker 2: It's also, i mean, no matter what happens, it's such

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Speaker 2: a big commitment. At twenty year commitment, there's so many

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Speaker 2: different factors that can really make a big difference.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for most South Africans. But buying your

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Speaker 3: home is probably the biggest transaction will ever do, biggest

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Speaker 3: financial transaction will ever do. And so you know, a

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Speaker 3: lot of the time when you talk to people that

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Speaker 3: have bought homes, see that they didn't know what they

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Speaker 3: didn't know. They fell in love with the place, or

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Speaker 3: rushed the deal, et cetera. And so it's I mean,

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Speaker 3: for me, it's something where if you're going to make

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Speaker 3: this kind of a commitment, you should do it. You know,

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Speaker 3: there will always be emotion involved. You have to live

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Speaker 3: in the place. You have to you know, you have

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Speaker 3: to enjoy being there. But before you, you know, you

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Speaker 3: allow yourself to get to get involved in emotion, you

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Speaker 3: have to have some pretty good idea of the financial

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Speaker 3: implications of what you're going to do, and make sure

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Speaker 3: you've done your homework. You're financially prepared, psychologically prepared, because

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Speaker 3: there will be shocks along the way, and make sure

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Speaker 3: that you can deal with those shocks as they come.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's get into some of the costs. And quite

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Speaker 2: a few costs are upfront and you don't always think

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Speaker 2: about this when you're looking at a house and you're

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Speaker 2: looking at the price and you're thinking, well that pull,

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Speaker 2: I could make that bluer than the sky has it.

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Speaker 2: But the upfront costs are rarely even if you get

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Speaker 2: a big bond, really more than you than you would expect.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's one of those things where we

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Speaker 3: we kind of think, you know, if we can convince

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Speaker 3: the bank, you know, with our first bond, the first

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Speaker 3: time we buy a house, to convince the bank to

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Speaker 3: give us, you know, one hundred percent bond that that

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Speaker 3: you know, we've scraped together some cash and that'll be

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Speaker 3: okay to get through whatever the costs are that we need.

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Speaker 3: And then we'll start, you know, the following month paying

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Speaker 3: down the bond and everything will be okay. I wish

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Speaker 3: it was that easy. That that's not really the case.

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Speaker 3: So we need to prepare for a few costs when

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Speaker 3: when we're going into buying a house, and and when

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Speaker 3: I say haus, it could be a house, it could

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Speaker 3: be in a pot artment, you know, in an estate,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. And the first thing is there are always

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Speaker 3: lawyers involved in the process. And and so when you

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Speaker 3: register a bond on a property, for example, you go

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Speaker 3: to a bank and you say, will you will you

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Speaker 3: lend me the money to buy this house? The bank says, sure,

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Speaker 3: no problem. What happens now is the bank becomes in

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Speaker 3: essence the real owner of the property until you've paid

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Speaker 3: it off. And and so what happens is they they

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Speaker 3: appoint a lawyer who registers bond on the property and

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Speaker 3: that bond says that you know, you know, yes, Warren,

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Speaker 3: Warren is the person that's names on the title deed,

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Speaker 3: but alongside Bank ABC, and until such time as Bank

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Speaker 3: ABC says differently, what Warren can't sell that place without

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Speaker 3: the bank's approval. So there is a bond registration process,

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Speaker 3: and and then that that's not the only thing, because

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Speaker 3: we also have to pay some tax. You know, SORRS

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Speaker 3: is not going to let you buy and sell properties

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Speaker 3: along the way without trying to claim some money as well.

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Speaker 3: And so if you've got a property and it's worth

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Speaker 3: more than one point two million round, then you're going

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Speaker 3: to pay bond fees and you're going to pay transfer

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Speaker 3: fees to SARS as well. And so just be careful

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Speaker 3: there because those transfer costs can add up very quickly.

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Speaker 3: And I did a quick calculation. I'm not pretending to

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Speaker 3: do this in my head. But for around a two

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Speaker 3: million round property, these upfrond costs are are going to

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Speaker 3: be pretty close to about one hundred and twenty thousand

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Speaker 3: Rand when you go in, and for a five million

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Speaker 3: property it's going to jump significantly around five hundred thousand.

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Speaker 3: So that's the lawyer fees, it's the taxes to sars,

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Speaker 3: the transfer duties, so all of those costs are hitting

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Speaker 3: you upfront before you've even paid for the geezer, which

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Speaker 3: is probably going to burst on the first week that

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Speaker 3: you move into.

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Speaker 2: Your property only if the mother in law's come for

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Speaker 2: tea weren't okay, you can get one hundred was a

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Speaker 2: time when you could get one hundred and one one

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Speaker 2: hundred and two percent mortgage. I think those days, thankfully

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Speaker 2: are long gone. But even if you get a bond

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Speaker 2: for one hundred percent, should you still consider putting down

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Speaker 2: a deposit? I mean, is there a gain to you

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Speaker 2: in doing that?

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Speaker 3: I think it's it's it's the trade off between you know,

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Speaker 3: what can you do upfront on a monthly basis how

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Speaker 3: much have you saved? Because the moment you put down

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Speaker 3: a deposit, the benefit to you is that your you're

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Speaker 3: either you keep your repayments a bit lower. So you know,

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Speaker 3: if you owed, let's say it was ten thousand a month,

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Speaker 3: but now you put down a deposit and it's a

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Speaker 3: decent deposit, you might find that you only need to

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Speaker 3: pay nine thousand a month. And so that's the one

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Speaker 3: way of saving yourself some money on a monthly basis

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Speaker 3: and creating a bit of space in your budget is

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Speaker 3: put down a big deposit, and the bigger the deposit,

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Speaker 3: the smaller the monthly repayments. The alternative is that you

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Speaker 3: put down a nice deposit and you don't pay less.

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Speaker 3: In other words, you still pay your ten thousand round

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Speaker 3: a month. And if you do that, you're going to

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Speaker 3: take years off the life of the bond. So most

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Speaker 3: of the time when we get a bond in South Africa,

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Speaker 3: the banks will give it to us for a twenty

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Speaker 3: year period. And the bigger the deposit on day one,

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Speaker 3: and the more consistent you are and paying a bit

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Speaker 3: extra every month, you can start to cut off periods

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Speaker 3: of you know, six to eight years on a bond

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Speaker 3: just by paying a deposit on day one. And so

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Speaker 3: I mean to me, you know, I think the other

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Speaker 3: thing around a bond and maybe paying a bit extras.

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Speaker 3: It becomes a very nice place to build up an

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Speaker 3: emergency fund, you know, because you're going to need an

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Speaker 3: emergency fund when you own a property. So if you

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Speaker 3: view nothing else, then pay the extra money that you

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Speaker 3: would have stored for your emergency fund as your deposit

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Speaker 3: if you can. And I think maybe my last comment

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Speaker 3: there on this, Stephen is just make sure with the

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Speaker 3: banks that this is if you pay the extra money

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Speaker 3: into the bond as a deposit and it's more than

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Speaker 3: what they require, that you can draw out the extra

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Speaker 3: money when when the world falls apart and you need

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Speaker 3: that money for an emergency.

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Speaker 2: Seven two seven oh two one seven oh two. What

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Speaker 2: did you learn when you bought a home for the

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Speaker 2: first time that you didn't know before about finances? I

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Speaker 2: don't mean check the outside, loo, I do mean about finances.

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Speaker 2: What did you learn through the process. The other thing is,

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Speaker 2: and I mean I remember going through this, you need

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Speaker 2: to know how much you can actually pay every month,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes that can be quite hard to work out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean certainly as a as a recovering property.

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Speaker 3: By this was the one that caught me out. I

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Speaker 3: think I did very well on understanding the upfront costs

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Speaker 3: are and I had a nice emergency find I did

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Speaker 3: put down and deposits, and then sort of by the

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Speaker 3: second or third month of home ownership, I just realized,

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Speaker 3: you know, that the money so much tighter than I

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Speaker 3: thought it would be, and I didn't really understand what

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Speaker 3: was going on. And so just to think it through.

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Speaker 3: The first thing is you've paid tax to sorrows on

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Speaker 3: the transferred US. But now that you're a homeowner, you've

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Speaker 3: got a new government body that's involved in your life

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Speaker 3: and they don't go away for the rest of the

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Speaker 3: time that you own a property, and that's called the

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Speaker 3: local municipality because they want to charge you something called rates.

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Speaker 3: And the reason they charge your rates is because they

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Speaker 3: are going to provide services like sewerage access and refuse

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Speaker 3: collection and all of those things. So for that they're

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Speaker 3: going to charge you a monthly rates. And in certain areas,

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Speaker 3: the Western Camp is one of them, those are going

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Speaker 3: up fairly quickly. And so again you need to know

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Speaker 3: that you know, it's not just you know your monthly bond,

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Speaker 3: it's now these rates and you know year one, once

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Speaker 3: you've done the homework, you might say, okay, well, that's fine.

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Speaker 3: I can pay the rates you know as there are now.

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Speaker 3: But if those rates are going up faster than inflation,

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Speaker 3: then you need to have an extra amount saved for

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Speaker 3: the following year because these rates are only ever going

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Speaker 3: to go And in addition to rates, if you live

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Speaker 3: in an apartment or in an a state or a

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Speaker 3: townhouse and you're part of a complex, then you're going

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Speaker 3: to pay rates, and you're going to pay a levee.

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Speaker 3: And that levee goes to the body corporate or the

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Speaker 3: homeowners association. And the reason you're paying them is because

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Speaker 3: they will have responsibility for certain parts of the building

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Speaker 3: on the outside. So, for example, in an apartment block,

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Speaker 3: the body corporate will be responsible for maintaining the roof

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Speaker 3: and the building on the outside, and so you know

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Speaker 3: every number of years they're going to paint that, they're

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Speaker 3: going to have to redo the paving every now and then,

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Speaker 3: and make sure the roof doesn't leak at all of

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Speaker 3: those things, and so you pay a levee to them

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Speaker 3: as well. And that's not a negotiable thing. That's not

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Speaker 3: something you can decide to pay or not. If you're

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Speaker 3: an owner, that means you're a part owner of a

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Speaker 3: whole building, and you are expected to pay, and if

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Speaker 3: you don't pay, you're going to get yourself into even

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Speaker 3: deeper financial struggers than what you thought. So make sure

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Speaker 3: that you pay these things, because you've got to pay

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Speaker 3: these This is not something you can just avoid or

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Speaker 3: ask for a payment holiday.

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Speaker 2: And I mean those can even when you've been living

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Speaker 2: in a place for a little while, suddenly there can

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Speaker 2: be increases. You know, you can want to boom off

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Speaker 2: the area or something that can happen, or there's a

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Speaker 2: regular cost or a community fund or something. Those things

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Speaker 2: keep coming up.

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Speaker 3: They don't just stop, yep, And it's often at the

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Speaker 3: very worst time. I remember living in a body corporate

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Speaker 3: where the trustees said, look, we've run out of money

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Speaker 3: and we need to repaint the whole of the outside

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Speaker 3: of the buildings, including the outside boundary walls, etc. They're

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Speaker 3: in desperate need of paint. And so you know, yes,

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Speaker 3: your normal monthly levees two thousand, but unfortunately for the

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Speaker 3: next three years, we're going to charge you another two thousand,

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Speaker 3: and that's called a special levee because they didn't budget

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Speaker 3: for this stuff uppront. So so now we need to

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Speaker 3: paint and build up some money for those costs. And again,

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Speaker 3: it's not a negotiation. Once once the homeowners have decided

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Speaker 3: and at a trustee level they're voted for this, it's

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Speaker 3: a it's a cost you have to pay. You have

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Speaker 3: to share that burden. And so you know, maybe a

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Speaker 3: good kind of tip for first time buyers is before

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Speaker 3: you buy into a body corporate, ask them to give

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Speaker 3: you the financials of that body corporate. You want to

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Speaker 3: know that it's in a healthy financial position, that it's

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Speaker 3: got some emergency reserves. Otherwise you're going to be part

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Speaker 3: of the emergency reserves problem in the next month or

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Speaker 3: year ahead.

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Speaker 2: We have a question for you from a Titus. Warren

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Speaker 2: Titus is asking, I'm thinking of stopping my hospital plan

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Speaker 2: for health insurance because it's cheaper. Is this a good idea?

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Speaker 2: It's such a wonderful question. This also what did you

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Speaker 2: learn buying a home for the first time? Those seven

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Speaker 2: two seven, O two one, seven or two. We'll have

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Speaker 2: an answer from Warren in just a moment for the

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Speaker 2: Money Show Personal Finance with Warren ingram Well. Your question,

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Speaker 2: Warren from Titus, I'm thinking of stopping my hospital plan

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Speaker 2: for health insurance because it's cheaper. Is that a good idea?

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Speaker 2: I mean, people go back and forth on this question

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Speaker 2: all the time.

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Speaker 3: It's it's such a tricky one because I think it's

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Speaker 3: it's for me, you know, intuitively, I would say, the

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Speaker 3: last thing I'm going to do is cancel my hospital plan.

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Speaker 3: And the reason is because if I have an accident,

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Speaker 3: I want to know that I can get care in

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Speaker 3: a hospital immediately and that I will be covered for

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Speaker 3: all of the expenses while I'm in the hospital. And

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Speaker 3: you know that might include having to pay surgeons and

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Speaker 3: specialists and all of that, and and you know, hospital

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Speaker 3: plans are not famous for covering all of the costs

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent of the time. But what I will

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Speaker 3: know with the hospital plan is that I'm largely covered

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Speaker 3: for most of the expenses, and so almost my default

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Speaker 3: answer is that I would be very scared to cancel

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Speaker 3: a hospital plan. But one of the things to think

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Speaker 3: about is, you know, health insurance it typically doesn't really

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Speaker 3: cover much of what you would uh, you know, much

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Speaker 3: of the expenses when you are in hospital itself. What

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Speaker 3: it does do is it helps you when you're going

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Speaker 3: to the general practitioner, and you know, you need to

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Speaker 3: go to the doctor because you're sick, and it covers

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Speaker 3: you more for the things that happened to you day

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Speaker 3: to day when when you're not having an accident or

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Speaker 3: something like that. So so for people that you know

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Speaker 3: that maybe are you know, in a position where they've

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Speaker 3: got a family and they end up at the doctor

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Speaker 3: reason and be awful, often that you might find that

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Speaker 3: you know, health insurance covers them a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's it is a tricky one because

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Speaker 3: you know, those are expenses. I mean, obviously you can't

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Speaker 3: negotiate with the with the flu. If you're if you're sick,

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Speaker 3: you're sick and you need to go to the doctor.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, I think, you know, for me,

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Speaker 3: I want to know I'm super well protected when I

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Speaker 3: when I'm end up in real trouble and I need,

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Speaker 3: you know, I need to go to hospital and be

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Speaker 3: covered for that. So I mean I almost want to say,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you if you're looking at canning your

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Speaker 3: hospital plan just to save money, you know, sometimes the

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Speaker 3: health insurances or medical insurances are actually a little bit

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Speaker 3: more expensive than a hospital plan. So so just be

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Speaker 3: careful that you're making an assumption there titus that the

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Speaker 3: one is cheaper than the other. And then you know,

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Speaker 3: just be very clear that you know, if you cancel

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Speaker 3: at your hospital plan and you have an accident, you're

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Speaker 3: going to a STAT hospital. And there are some very

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Speaker 3: good STAT hospitals, but unfortunately there also lots that aren't

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Speaker 3: that good. And and you know, is that the kind

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Speaker 3: of risk you want to take with your potentially actually

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Speaker 3: with your life. Without being too dramatic.

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Speaker 2: We're on Ingram there, the certified financial planner at Galileo Capital,

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Speaker 2: taking you through some of the realities the unexpected payments

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Speaker 2: of buying a new home on this week's Personal Finance,

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Speaker 2: The Best of the Money Show on seven o two.

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Speaker 2: In Business Unusual, this week the Organizational Behavior special Let's SAP.

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Speaker 2: We're Moyle discussing how the advice to just be yourself

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Speaker 2: be authentic. We want to know the real you, how

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Speaker 2: can actually be a trap, an authenticity trap that can

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Speaker 2: really reduce the effectiveness of your team.

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Speaker 4: Just thinking about the first data idea that you've just

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Speaker 4: spoken about, don't be yourself completely on your first date.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's such a really nice analogy for

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Speaker 4: me because I think authenticity can be a very very

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Speaker 4: good thing. But I think, just like anything else, we

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Speaker 4: can take it too far, or we can misunderstand it,

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Speaker 4: and it becomes very counterproductive. So, for I was in

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Speaker 4: an organizational behavior conference recently and we're discussing a book

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Speaker 4: by a guy called doctor Thomas Tomorrow. He says the

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Speaker 4: book is called Don't be Yourself while Authenticity is Overrated,

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Speaker 4: And I think it challenged me, Stephen, to be honest

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Speaker 4: with you, because what if the version of you that's

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Speaker 4: showing up every day is reactive or maybe defensive or

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Speaker 4: emotionally underdeveloped. Is that the version you want to bring

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Speaker 4: on that first date. Is that the version you want

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Speaker 4: to bring on at work? I think not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you've you kind of need to manage yourself.

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Speaker 2: I mean to put this in another way, Supeware, I

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Speaker 2: am a different person to my wife than I am

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Speaker 2: to the listener of this radio show, to the person

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Speaker 2: that I am with, the people I work with who

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Speaker 2: produce the radio show. I'm still Steven, but I'm three

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Speaker 2: different people to all of those all of those groups exactly.

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Speaker 4: I think that's the main thing. So when people say

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Speaker 4: be your authentic self, which version of Steven are They're

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Speaker 4: looking for because it definitely cannot be the same the

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Speaker 4: same version. So if you're going to bring the brutally

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Speaker 4: honest version of you at work, that's probably not going

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Speaker 4: to help us. Because human beings generally are quite complex,

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Speaker 4: so understanding context and understanding where you are is very

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Speaker 4: very good. So for example, if you are to open

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Speaker 4: radio show luck you're off tomorrow, Let's say another day

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Speaker 4: and say I had a completely terrible day, I'm not

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Speaker 4: feeling like heaving the radio. That's probably not a good

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Speaker 4: idea at work. So the understanding of how complex we

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Speaker 4: are and how how many selves do we have as

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Speaker 4: human beings helps us because you're not being authentic inauthentic.

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Speaker 4: You're just being the authentic Worg version of you, because

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Speaker 4: that's what is required there.

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Speaker 2: The book you talk your referring to her talks about

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Speaker 2: authenticity traps and four main ones. I mean, what are

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Speaker 2: the traps?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just briefly, Stephen. The first one is the whole

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Speaker 4: transparency trips, the idea that we should always be brutally honest.

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Speaker 4: I think that's that's not true. I speak at conferences

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Speaker 4: and the last thing you want is the speaker going

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Speaker 4: on stage and saying I'm demotivated today. It's like, that's

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Speaker 4: not what we're there for. So unfiltered honesty without context

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Speaker 4: is just reckless. That's that's the first one. It's called

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Speaker 4: the transparency trip. I think the second one is called

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Speaker 4: the impulsive trip. The idea that you should always follow

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Speaker 4: your heart and many people assume mistakingly that what you

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Speaker 4: really feel your true things always right. But that's not

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Speaker 4: true because we can lead to poor decision and failure

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Speaker 4: to adapt professionally. The sad one is stop worrying about

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Speaker 4: what others think. This is a terrible one, and I

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Speaker 4: think in the context of the world politics that you

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Speaker 4: are in, Stephen, where people don't seem to care about

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Speaker 4: another's view, this is a trip that is not good.

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Speaker 4: You have to worry about what other people think. It's

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Speaker 4: a very nassistic thing to say, stop worrying about about

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Speaker 4: what other people think of you. It's very important to

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Speaker 4: worry because leadership requires transition, adaptation. The idea that you

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Speaker 4: should never compromise, or at least be someone else in

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Speaker 4: a different context is wrong. And the last one is

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Speaker 4: bring your whole self to work. It is impossible to

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Speaker 4: bring my whole self to work. That entire self can

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Speaker 4: include being grumpy and sious, but that's not going to

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Speaker 4: help us. So the professional version of ourselves, as we've

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Speaker 4: always said, is a more adaptable and required at that time.

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Speaker 2: Can authenticity be sort of misunderstood?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it is often misunderstood Stevine, because I mean, I

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Speaker 4: think we've all seen someone who and I've seen people

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Speaker 4: who go to work and they say, I'm just being myself,

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Speaker 4: I'm blunt, I tell it like it is, I'm being real.

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Speaker 4: But what if you've been real? Erode psychological safety, which

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Speaker 4: is a bedrock of team effectiveness. So the fact that

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Speaker 4: you are really means I can't ask a question. The

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Speaker 4: fact that you're real means I can't admit a mistake

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Speaker 4: because I am not safe at that moment. And by

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Speaker 4: the way, as we've always argued, if I can't admit

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Speaker 4: a mistakes, that means I'm hiding it, and that's not

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Speaker 4: good for business. So it's not just about being collegial.

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Speaker 4: That's aterually not good for business. You need an environment

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Speaker 4: where everyone to a different to a different extent, can

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Speaker 4: be able to show us a different version of themselves.

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Speaker 2: And when you're a leader, you do need to be real.

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Speaker 2: You can't lie over the time. I mean sometimes very

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Speaker 2: good leaders have known have have not lied, but have

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Speaker 2: found ways to show a leadership version of themselves when

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Speaker 2: you kind of know later actually they didn't feel like it,

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Speaker 2: but they managed it anyway. How do you be real

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Speaker 2: with being effective at the same time.

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Speaker 4: That's so true, Steven, and I think for me what

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Speaker 4: you've said about understanding that their different version of a

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Speaker 4: person is very important, because we don't we want you

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Speaker 4: to be real. We just don't want you to have

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Speaker 4: your unfield that self. We want your intentionalselves. We want

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Speaker 4: a leader who knows how they are wired. But they

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Speaker 4: understand that I can adapt. The idea that that's just

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Speaker 4: who I am is not going to work. You can

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Speaker 4: acknowledge your inclinations. You can acknowledge who you are, but

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Speaker 4: work on them. For example, I understand that when I'm

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Speaker 4: in a meeting, I need to dial up certain things

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Speaker 4: and dial down certain things. So, for example, if you're

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Speaker 4: a leader and you want other people to speak, you

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Speaker 4: might have to dial down the domineering. You might have

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Speaker 4: to listen to other people's firsts. Otherwise you're gonna lose

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Speaker 4: as in a session to their way. It's clear some

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Speaker 4: people are a little bit more introverted and if you

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Speaker 4: lose out on that simply because you just bring your

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Speaker 4: unfilter itself. Now while listening to you, you're changing the

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Speaker 4: climate of the meeting and all we can do is

433
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 4: just to nod and watch you because it's your show.

434
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 2: So people with Moyo there is sort of unpacking why

435
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 2: that Just be yourself. Advice isn't always the best. It's

436
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: also good conversation to have with yourself about which of

437
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: yourselves show up for work that most of the time

438
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 2: it's the professional self you will listening to the money

439
00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 2: shows the best bits. Ronin Williams, the trend translation future

440
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 2: finance specialist at Flux Trends, reviewed the book that's quite

441
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 2: provocative titles by Sophie Gilbert, is called Girl on Girl.

442
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 2: It essentially exposes the way that pop culture treats women,

443
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 2: particularly younger women, and the business incentives behind that, how

444
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 2: there's a sort of monetization of humiliational outrage, and how

445
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 2: it still continues, and of course at the bottom of

446
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: it is the fact that women's bodies are still commodifying.

447
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 1: Yes, well, I picked it up because, as your listeners

448
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: might know, I do Chriolo these reviews. I'm both in

449
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: the future space that I'm also a trained economist, and

450
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: one of the things that I'm really interested in is

451
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: the effects of that I call it the commoditization of

452
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 1: care on our economy and on our society. And that's

453
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: why this book was an interesting and challenging read to

454
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: bring to a business show, even though it's really more

455
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: about society. What it's really speaking about is how feminism

456
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: as we know it, when it has collided with capitalism

457
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: as we know it today, has put woman into this

458
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: impossible choice of either being exploited or exploiting yourself, as

459
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: though that's somehow more empowering. Hello OnlyFans, and of course

460
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: the normalization of porn or qualification of normalcy, which is

461
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: kind of the world that we have it in today.

462
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: So what the author so, if he does, it takes

463
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: you through really a whiplash tour of the history of

464
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: that increasing sort of commoditization of the self that has

465
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 1: been effectively the sort of current stage of feminism, that

466
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: where it's this idea that you have to sell yourself

467
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 1: in order to survive starts of quite benign you know,

468
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: you have to look good for Instagram, and that course

469
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: means that you will get more attentions to get more money.

470
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 1: You can get more likes. But okay, if you take

471
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: off a few more clothes, you can do it on

472
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: OnlyFans and you can make you more money there. In fact,

473
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 1: if you're a child's star, it's now the Disney straits

474
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: to only fans pipeline. It's become quite normalized. And it's

475
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: particularly just going to dive into this conversation in the

476
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: weeks where the world is busy discussing the Epstein files

477
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: and what is it is not inside them? Because all

478
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: these things are so related.

479
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: Could they be and I'm going to delve into very

480
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 2: deep waters here that are well below my hair, well

481
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: above my head. Could it also lead to woman feeling

482
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 2: they have to make particular choices? It creates a kind

483
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: of false binary, even to the point of what do

484
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: I wear to the business meeting? How do I deal

485
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 2: with this very difficult conversation? How do I behave in

486
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 2: a tough negotiation when I want this? All of those

487
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: things are happening, maybe unconsciously, maybe quite consciously, or because

488
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: of this pornographization of media, yes exactly.

489
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: And the pornomifization of the self. I mean, Mary Harrington

490
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: is another amazing writer that's right into the space too.

491
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: But I think you kind of hits it on the head.

492
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: And that's why the title is course a pun that

493
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: it's this idea that it becomes a sort of self

494
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: reinforcing and self policing system that under the guise of freedom,

495
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: women need to accept being exploited by themselves or by

496
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: others in order to maintain their place in society. And

497
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: this is it's actually quite interesting in terms of like

498
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: a tragedy of the commons, kind of an economic very game, right,

499
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: or a zero sum game, a race to the bottom.

500
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: So if we know and unfortunately it is a truth,

501
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: but if you look younger, and you are sinner, and

502
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: you are taller, you're going to get paid more in

503
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: the workplace, right. I mean they say age discrimination against

504
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: women in particular starts taking place when it comes in

505
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: terms of mispromotions all the way from the age of

506
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: thirty five. If you're not even halfway through your life,

507
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: that you're already like too old, which means it'd sensible

508
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: economic fet is to get the botox, take the ozampic,

509
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: and maintain your social value. But by doing that, you're

510
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: putting more pressure onto the next woman and the next

511
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: goal do the same, because by not doing that, you're

512
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: even even more money on the table, and the difference

513
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: between those who are playing the game and those who

514
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: are not playing the game becomes more stark. I mean,

515
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: it's it's not just women, so men that fall into

516
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: this trap with like the leg lengthening surgery and this

517
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: idea of having to sort of, you know, remake yourself

518
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: to fit in with the norm that nobody really wants

519
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: that everybody is doing because that's what pays. And that's

520
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: what's so.

521
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 2: Interesting about this, just to to sort of in the media,

522
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 2: in my experience of newsrooms, women have always outnumbered men,

523
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 2: and I'm sure that's probably the case in the entertainment

524
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: media too, and yet this still happens, and and isn't

525
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: that interesting, says Stephen Bravely, Yes, exactly.

526
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: That's that's the point around the self policing, that in fact,

527
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: women become their own enforce and their own enflavors in

528
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: the system because it's the choices that individual women make

529
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: that sort of limited or exchange the choices that other women,

530
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: particularly younger women have. It's the role models that we have,

531
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: it's the promotions that we get. I think I've stually

532
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: spoken about it on the show before. There was that

533
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: infamous Queen Bee paper that came out one of the

534
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: Kitsune universities that lived at how in South Africa. A

535
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: lot of the pay gap in corporate South Africa actually

536
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: came from women bosses not hiring younger women and not

537
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: from men not hiring women like men were hiring and

538
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: promoting almost equitably, but women had the stark yap about

539
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: the subordinates because of this idea of competition and scarcity. Now,

540
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: uncharitably that's not very nice of the women in power,

541
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: But with a bit more pregnatism, you have to understand

542
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: that she's doing this because she does know that letting

543
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: as a little abized into her hive puts her a ross.

544
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 4: Right.

545
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: It's the sort of substivity built for ourselves that we part.

546
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: We become actor in perpetuating the same hearts, much like

547
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: a sort of reason as a schools universities. It's men,

548
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: of course quite known for, but it is the sort

549
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: of self If one woman is exploiting herself, if we

550
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: see celebrities showing up at awards shows, literally in the

551
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: nude like I'm sure we thought also the Grammy's pictures beautiful,

552
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: but also kind of pushing the boundaries. It means the

553
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: next woman has that much more pressure could do this thing,

554
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: because that's where the by is now sets in terms

555
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: of compliance. So if you don't comply, of course you

556
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: being difficult or even regressive, which is where you've got

557
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: the sort of really ironic side of feminism that it

558
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: doesn't pay to be conservative, and that by being conservative

559
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: in yourself you are not actually being a feminist. So

560
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: we've kind of talked to ourselves into the circle where

561
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: feminism equals self exploitation, which is not what anyone intended

562
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: to do with the sort of outstates of the sexual revolution,

563
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: which is kind of where the book starts and fuss

564
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: forwards all the way to the mess we find ourselves

565
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: in today, particularly with young girls who are now already

566
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: on like skincare regimes from the age of teen or eleven,

567
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: which is just incredible.

568
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: Ronin Williams, reviewing the book The Girl On Girl by

569
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: Sophie Gilbert seven, notes the best of the Money show

570
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 2: from this week How I Make Money this week? Our

571
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 2: guest was Lorato Sabata, a procurement and supply chain experts

572
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: here of the ROI Group, talking about the work she

573
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: does and how supply chains work and where and how

574
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: things can go wrong.

575
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 5: Well, thank you for that. So supply chain, to be

576
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 5: honest with you, is basically invisible economy if we think

577
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 5: of it like that. When things work, people don't tend

578
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 5: to notice. But if anything actually starts affecting you as

579
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 5: a customer, then you start noticing stuff like changes and

580
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 5: price shortages and stock you know, business being in distress,

581
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 5: we have issues around delivery. So that's when as a

582
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 5: customer start feeling actually the vail of supply chain. And

583
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 5: for me that's not made it interesting because I can

584
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 5: feel intangibly delivered this product, you know, to a particular

585
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 5: customer that which is using and most of even being

586
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 5: very visible logistics, we see them on the road every

587
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 5: single day, and basically that's what moves one idea into

588
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 5: actual product the customer can use. And that's what's so

589
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 5: refreshing for me to be in this career.

590
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: How did you get into it? You know, most many

591
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: mining executives started as an engineer. Some of them started

592
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: underground how do you get into supply chains?

593
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 5: You know, a very interesting story. I was sitting on

594
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 5: my liune at my Alligne with my sister's friend, you know,

595
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 5: during metric you know, you're not sure what you want

596
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 5: to do the next year, and it busy debating. It's

597
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 5: just a really informal conversation, and she just said, don't

598
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 5: you want to consider logistics? And I didn't even know

599
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 5: what that meant. And I obviously went to just research

600
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 5: and I was I just immediately fell in love with

601
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 5: the idea of I could relate with logistics. And that's

602
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 5: just how I ended up being in the supply and field,

603
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 5: where I did a lot of my work in procurement,

604
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 5: you know, and we're housing and manufacturing and a lot.

605
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 5: So that's what basically inspired and is landed into the career.

606
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: Is there something satisfying about the physicality of it? By

607
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 2: which I mean and I'm going to use I'm going

608
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: to use cans of beans a lot over the next

609
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: little world because I need an example of something that

610
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,239
Speaker 2: we all know. But but but is it? Is it?

611
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: Because you can you can tell whether the cans of

612
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: beans got to where they were supposed to get to

613
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: at the right time. Is that maybe quite satisfying in

614
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: a way that I don't know, lecturing history isn't.

615
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 5: You could say that because firstly, it's relatable, you know,

616
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 5: and one can be very inquisitive to understand where are

617
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 5: these kinds of being sourced from, who packages them, who

618
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 5: delivers them? You know who that makes up the price

619
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 5: of that kind of you know, beans, And if there's

620
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 5: any issues, what does that look like for logistics perspective?

621
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 5: Do you understand so? Yes, in terms of relatability, absolutely so.

622
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 5: I think that's a lot more easier for one to

623
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 5: follow through, you know, versus the invisible world. You know

624
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 5: what I mean.

625
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: I mean, when you visualize a supply chain, do you

626
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 2: carry a sort of image of something around in your head?

627
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: I kind of have. It's a very silly image, but

628
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 2: I have an image of a very old fashioned kind

629
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: of car production system, you know, as a production line,

630
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: except that the production line starts, you know, growing the

631
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: beans and ends in a whole series of shopping centers

632
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: in different places.

633
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, you could look at it like that, but you see,

634
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 5: for simplicity reason, I think of it like playing really,

635
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 5: you know, on a field. One person passes the bit

636
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 5: into another person until the finish line. So when you

637
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 5: start sourcing manufacturers, you get onto that how do those

638
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 5: products move from that place to the next, which is

639
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 5: now logistics planning. That's all supply chain and in that

640
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 5: where a lot of issues happen, challenges, miscalculation, late deliveries,

641
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 5: the storage storage includes money. If you overstore a product

642
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 5: for two lungs, that losing out and even you you know,

643
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 5: and now there's also delivery to the actual customer itself,

644
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 5: you know that uses the particular product. And now behind

645
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 5: all of that whole chain there's systems, there's it, there's AI.

646
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 5: Now you know, there's a whole lot of outset complexities

647
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 5: that are behind the chain where where you can almost

648
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 5: visualize it like that and when you start experiencing more

649
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 5: relatable even topics. Now which is maybe more topical is

650
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 5: let's just say maybe for example, the whole issue with

651
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 5: the tembes A hospital. Those are all supplying challenges because

652
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 5: it included, you know, the the integrities of our procurement

653
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 5: was handled and that's part of a value chain in

654
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 5: the process flow, you know, so they're for is how

655
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 5: they do ensure ultimately delivery. It speaks to the sourcing

656
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 5: element and the sourcing elements the people behind the decisions

657
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 5: of such type of activity.

658
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: The older I get, the more I realize that experts

659
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: and things often have mathematical equations for things. So, I mean,

660
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: I'm always it took me a while to get my

661
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: brain around this, but there are mathematical equations for traffic, right,

662
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: Are they certain rules? Even mathematical equations perhaps for supply chains?

663
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: If you one to move a whole series of things

664
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 2: from places ab CD and E to x y Z

665
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: and goodness knows where else you have to follow these rules?

666
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: Are they kind of quite sort of standardized ways of

667
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: doing things? There must be.

668
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely so rules in terms of how a product source,

669
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,479
Speaker 5: there is rules and how you advertise, you know, Let's

670
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 5: just say, for example, there is a need to procure

671
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 5: new facility in Africa somewhere because you want to build

672
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 5: maybe a brewery, for example. The the sourcing element you

673
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 5: need to participate in in country requirement, that you need

674
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 5: to pass through estates and that those are part of

675
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 5: the you know, the earlier part of sourcing. And that's

676
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 5: very intentional and you cannot just go and build it,

677
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, or rent any facility for

678
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 5: that matter, and that's where the rules come in. And

679
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 5: then there's also how then you source that particular facility

680
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 5: then comes into play, which is now your procurement process

681
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 5: which is highly governed and you are operating within frameworks

682
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 5: and the selection process. And then there's also now the

683
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 5: awarded service providers on the ground to implement. There's also

684
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 5: the framework that must work within from a health and

685
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 5: safety perspective, quality perspective, you know all the standards. So

686
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 5: all of these things operate within frameworks and rules, yes,

687
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 5: until to a particular customer and I'll end up using

688
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 5: the particular product or service at the end. So in

689
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 5: that there's a heavy compliance and governance duties in that process.

690
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 2: So what I mean is when you when you want

691
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: to build a supply chain errato, there must be ways

692
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: in which you start and you know that if you

693
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: don't do it like this, it's not going to work.

694
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 2: So what I'm talking about is I'm not worried about compliance.

695
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,479
Speaker 2: I'm talking about established procedures for making a supply chain work.

696
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 5: It takes. They're all interconnected, right, It's not a singular

697
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 5: it's not singularly managed because remember business operates with other

698
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 5: functions that should make it work. So you will require it.

699
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 5: It will require maybe in inventory team, it will require systems,

700
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 5: you know. So all of those things, when you put

701
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 5: them together to establish a supply chain will ultimately become one.

702
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 5: And how do we see this word? Let's say for

703
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 5: global supply chains. If you're moving any product from America

704
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 5: into South Africa, there are rules of inter trade you

705
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 5: know that you must work within and how you end

706
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 5: up lending into other parts of the countries. So yes,

707
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 5: in terms of answering that question, what.

708
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 2: Are the things that go wrong most often? And I

709
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: want to say hey, and I say this based from

710
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: headlines and not entirely serious. An upgrade to an S

711
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 2: A P I, T C system seems to lead to

712
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: the biggest problems. I have my tongue in my cheek,

713
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 2: But a change to an IT system seems to lead

714
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: to so many supply chain problems that we can see

715
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: as consumers.

716
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 5: In terms of what what goes wrong?

717
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: Yes, what goes wrong most often with the supply chain, A.

718
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 5: Lot of it is poor planning and under estimate meeting

719
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 5: the value of the IT system that can manage that

720
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 5: type of plans and planning. I mean from demand. For example,

721
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 5: you could under you know, plan from a demand perspective,

722
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 5: or supply chains could be maybe designed to for example,

723
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 5: let's say Starbucks, they've designed to in the front end

724
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 5: of a shop to sell beverages. But now over time,

725
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 5: because of customers need variety, then you start introducing other products,

726
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 5: and that means you have to start changing how that

727
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 5: was supposed to have flow in the beginning. And now

728
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 5: there's more people that need more food than it was

729
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 5: with beverages. So are you ready now? So therefore that

730
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 5: means you mus start adding more suppliers to meet the

731
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 5: quick customer demands. Then it's us the new age you

732
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 5: want to order online. Now you're adding another dynamic and

733
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 5: introducing you know, ordering systems and automation and all of

734
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 5: that must move first right and ultimately customer being happy

735
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 5: the promised timeline, And therefore that starts creating a lot

736
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 5: of challenges if it's not well planned and then.

737
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: So so the biggest problem really is that people just

738
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 2: aren't upgrading when they should. I mean, it's like everything

739
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 2: you have to upgrade at the right.

740
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 5: Time, yes, and sometimes then you buy legal sy systems

741
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 5: that's been there for so long that we're not able

742
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 5: to perform for them now demand you know, if you know,

743
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 5: and I maybe air on Ai to assist with the planning.

744
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 5: But the current legal systems are they able to upgrade

745
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 5: you to that particular software or the particular system, which

746
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 5: is a challenge, you know. And there's quality failures and

747
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 5: real works delays, and the big part also is the

748
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 5: late payments. You know, if you're paying your suppliers lad

749
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 5: that can't get your next order on time, that's another issue,

750
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 5: you know. So it becomes an interconnected challenges that overall

751
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 5: create these type of challenges over time.

752
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: We're speaking to Lorato Sabbata to Nunti procrement and supply

753
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: chain experts here of the ROI Group. We're talking matters

754
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,760
Speaker 2: supply chain on the Money Show.

755
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 4: The Money Show, How I Make my money.

756
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 2: Talking matters supply chain tonight and of course some being

757
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: wow since we've been able to speak to someone about

758
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 2: this issue, but just getting a deeper understanding of how

759
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 2: it all works. Lorato's about as the procurement and supply

760
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: chain expertencyre of the ROI Group. Lorato, I think a

761
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 2: lot of us hadn't really thought much of supply chains

762
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 2: until the pandemic came along and suddenly we were thinking

763
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 2: about supply chains all the time. I remember as the

764
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: lockdown were starting talking about food supply change, you know,

765
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 2: and I was suddenly very interested in food supply chains

766
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 2: have supply change because some of them were disrupted, not

767
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: food necessarily, but others were. Have supply chained changed much

768
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 2: since the pandemic. There was lots of talk of near

769
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,479
Speaker 2: shoring and things like that. Have supply chains really changed

770
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 2: since then?

771
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 5: Yes, I think a lot of businesses have really treated

772
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 5: supply chain now those type of challenges that we're experienced

773
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 5: in COVID as more of a business continuity, you know.

774
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 5: It's more like the black swan that was the first

775
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 5: thing that has happened that costs the disruption that we

776
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 5: experienced and now risk you know, management and mitigation plans

777
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 5: of put in place have now you know, transformed that

778
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 5: part of thinking tomorrow, how do we continue business if

779
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 5: such happens? In that to be more practical, there's more

780
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 5: introduction of supply diversity, you know, and sourcing closer to home,

781
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 5: you know, interaction, we have issues of localization. A lot

782
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 5: of the items are important, you know, there isn't my

783
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 5: happening locally that government is trying very hard to to

784
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 5: to amplify their b you know, performance and participation just

785
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 5: from that localization. I think that happened post COVID really

786
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 5: was another amplifier in that which we need to solve

787
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 5: for and that has been you know, starting to come

788
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 5: up to place and tightening a lot more contracts and

789
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 5: service levels, right, and how then to become more creative

790
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 5: beinion panels where some supply ten leaders say, how we

791
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 5: now source service provider us through our process in procurement,

792
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 5: we want to look for innovation in the like of

793
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 5: if something like or it could happen, So in the

794
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 5: verses starting to become the center part of how you

795
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 5: then award a particular contracts you know, and particular performance

796
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 5: structure so that you're not found in a vulnerable position.

797
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: It's difficult for a company, though, isn't it, because you

798
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: you would have had let me call it a pre

799
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 2: pandemic and a post pandemic supply line and a pre

800
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 2: pandemic supply chain might have cost you one hundred rand

801
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 2: let's just say for argument's sake, and a post pandemic

802
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: production line or supply line, a supply chain that you

803
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: need costs you twenty percent more than that for something

804
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 2: that's only happened once in sort of five generations. I

805
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: mean to try and manage the cost of that to

806
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: do it correctly. There might be some companies that will say, no,

807
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: we're not going to plan for a black Swan event.

808
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 2: We're just going to take the profit while we can.

809
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, ultimately we need to move with the

810
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 5: times and move with where the market is going. We

811
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 5: have a high pressure with interest rates, economies are changing,

812
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 5: tolbalizations happening is just becoming a big thing. So companies

813
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 5: are really under pressure to start also aligning with those

814
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 5: type of things. And now you cannot go bit pre

815
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 5: covid right. And also your competitors are aligning themselves in

816
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,720
Speaker 5: that particular way. So therefore you will either be stuck

817
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 5: or move. And those are they come with the challenges

818
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 5: of prices increase and you know these type of dynamics.

819
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 2: The way supply chains are going, now, are they going

820
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: to involve fewer humans? I mean, obviously humans will design

821
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 2: them and still do a lot of the work, but

822
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: do you get a sense I think people are going

823
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: to mechanize more and more and you know, feel free

824
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: to throw the phrase in AI somewhere. Everyone's talking about

825
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: robots at the moment.

826
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a topical thing now, which I also had

827
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 5: a conversation with one of the datas in the finance

828
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 5: industries recently that you know, a lot there is now

829
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 5: designs regarding the robots of how to respond to what

830
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 5: we don't want to do every day. You know, there's

831
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 5: a repetitive work that you do every day and how

832
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 5: can I do that faster? But now you're probably going

833
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 5: to need a human being to auto correct that and

834
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 5: maybe insert of input particular probmts that should enable what

835
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 5: you want to get out of that. So it's still

836
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 5: a growing conversation, to be honest, but the future is

837
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 5: going there. But at some point it would have been

838
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 5: fully transformed into AI slash automation. But now humans must

839
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 5: also transform because one of the challenges for courement or

840
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 5: supply chain has is lack of skills. Are we sourcing

841
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 5: the right people for today's world of how we want

842
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 5: this to apply chains to work efficiently? That's another thing.

843
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 5: Talent management another problem, you.

844
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: Know, I mean I would imagine you know that you

845
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 2: need people to design these things. It must be a

846
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: very interesting career to get into and at times quite

847
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: exciting and quite challenging if things go wrong.

848
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, you need people to design this, but also it's

849
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 5: more also on the new age youth that is designing

850
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 5: this new type of creative innovation and markets also market ready.

851
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 5: If you look at our market, it's so much secondary

852
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 5: to the European market, so we always play catch up.

853
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 5: And at the time we catch up, is it where

854
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 5: supplace is at the global landscape? Is another challenge in

855
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 5: a question, you know.

856
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 2: Is that rate of is that rate of change speeding up?

857
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: So it's interrupted? I mean, is it moving more quickly

858
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 2: than it did, say twenty years ago?

859
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 5: I believe it. It's taking up right now, especially with

860
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,720
Speaker 5: like the two thousand generation going forward and how things

861
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 5: are today versus the prior generation. So absolutely the speed

862
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 5: of it is moving for a thousand before, though it

863
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 5: might not be the skill that it would be with

864
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 5: the Europeans, I would say that or Chinese you know

865
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 5: in a ways.

866
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Speaker 2: About it that taking us into the world of procurement

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Speaker 2: and supply chain management, explaining where you can have problems

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Speaker 2: and where the disruptions come from. Seven you will listen

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00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 2: to The Money Shows the best bits. Listening to the

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00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 2: best Bits of The Money Show a digestive some of

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00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: the most interesting thoughts, comments, and insights this week. If

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00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 2: you'd like to hear more, go to our website or

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00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 2: your podcast app and search for The Money Show. Thanks

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00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 2: for listening. We're back on The Money Show six o'clock

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00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 2: on Monday. Have a good weekend.