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Speaker 1: Seven o two Weekend Breakfast and Parenting with Mickey Bush.

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Speaker 2: It's eleven minutes after eight o'clock at a Saturday morning,

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Speaker 2: which means time for us to talk parenting and is

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Speaker 2: mentioned this week we are looking at the issue of

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Speaker 2: screen time. We spend a lot of time looking at screens.

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Speaker 2: As mentioned, we look at screens in the morning with

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Speaker 2: our phones. We look at screens at work, whether you

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Speaker 2: work a desktop over a desktop or a laptop. We

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Speaker 2: look at screens when we look at our iPads or

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Speaker 2: mobile devices. We then look at the big screen in

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Speaker 2: the house, which is the TV.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's ever.

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Speaker 2: Been a time in history where there were so many

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Speaker 2: screens to look at. And of course, if we as

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Speaker 2: the adults are looking at screens, so our kids. And

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Speaker 2: often screens are often used to help kids in very

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Speaker 2: stressful situations. You see kids, you know, some kids can't

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Speaker 2: eat without a cell phone or an iPad playing something.

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Speaker 2: Mobile devices can often be a tool parents used to

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Speaker 2: calm kids in public. And so we do have a

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Speaker 2: lot of screen time. But what happens if you want

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Speaker 2: to reduce the amount of screen time your kids are

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Speaker 2: looking at.

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Speaker 1: How do you do that?

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Speaker 2: That's what we're discussing this morning, and maybe you have

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Speaker 2: a question sending through to us. I know seven two

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Speaker 2: seven two one seven oh two, Joined as always by

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Speaker 2: a resident human potential and parenting expert, Nikki Bosh.

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Speaker 1: Nikki, A very good morning.

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Speaker 3: Too, Good morning books.

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Speaker 2: So this morning we are talking about screen time or

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Speaker 2: the screen cycle, which seems to be a thing we

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Speaker 2: all struggle with, not just children. I can't remember the

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Speaker 2: last time I stood in a queue of any kind

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Speaker 2: without looking at my phone.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm always looking.

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Speaker 3: At screens just to fill in time, don't we.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And we see it parents trying to use screens

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Speaker 2: to help kids, you know, kind of stay calm or

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Speaker 2: you know, get a thing done. So screens are increasingly

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Speaker 2: we're full time with them. We use them to calm ourselves.

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Speaker 2: They really are the thing we go to for a

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Speaker 2: great number of things.

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Speaker 3: So googs. I think the point we want to make

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Speaker 3: this morning is something that is not really understood about screens.

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Speaker 3: You've mentioned how we use screens to calm children down,

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Speaker 3: to contain them when they're in a public place where

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Speaker 3: they need to be still, where they need to not

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Speaker 3: be running around, etc. But the fascinating thing about being

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Speaker 3: on screens which neuroscientists have discovered is that when you

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Speaker 3: are looking at a screen a narrow vision, because when

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Speaker 3: you're looking at a screen, you narrow down your vision

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Speaker 3: as opposed to standing on the top of a building

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Speaker 3: and looking at the horizon, as opposed to standing on

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Speaker 3: the beach looking at the horizon of the sea. Or

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Speaker 3: say you're in the bush and you're on a copy

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Speaker 3: and you're looking over the Bushfeldt, what actually happens when

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Speaker 3: we are on a screen is that we narrow down

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Speaker 3: our vision, and that actually stimulates the fight flight response.

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Speaker 3: And so what happens is that we are actually, inadvertently

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Speaker 3: both us adults and our children are in a state

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Speaker 3: of high alert, even though we think that our children

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Speaker 3: are calming down in front of a screen. Isn't that fascinating?

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Speaker 3: So we need to be very, very aware. So Andrew Huberman,

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Speaker 3: who's a neuroscientist at Stanford, was quoted in Psychology Today

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Speaker 3: as saying, panoramic vision when we stand on top of

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Speaker 3: a hill, for example, is directly linked to a sense

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Speaker 3: of calm and reduces the stress in the body. And

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Speaker 3: he says when we focus narrowly, as we do when

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Speaker 3: working on screens, our system shifts into a state of

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Speaker 3: high alert. But when we broaden our gays and look

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Speaker 3: at a wide vision, our nervous system relaxes. This even

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Speaker 3: impact on our breathing. It deepens and we reconnect to

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Speaker 3: a sense of ease. Now I can attest to that

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Speaker 3: because last week, as you know, I was away, I

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Speaker 3: was away in Nisner. I was looking across the Nisna

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Speaker 3: Lagoon towards the Otanequa Mountains, and it's just amazing how

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Speaker 3: instantaneously you start to breathe differently. So I think it's

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Speaker 3: very important that as parents we understand this about children,

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Speaker 3: and as educators we understand the children also have this

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Speaker 3: need to look beyond the four walls of a room,

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Speaker 3: because it's very easy for young children today to grow

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Speaker 3: up in a world in one room, quite literally, and

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Speaker 3: a world on one screen. It's not even the size

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Speaker 3: of a room anymore. It's actually the size of a

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Speaker 3: cell phone. That is a very small world in physical

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Speaker 3: multisensory terms. Of course, we know that programs on a

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Speaker 3: screen can take your children into alternate realities and they

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Speaker 3: can experience things that and go to places that they'll

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Speaker 3: never get to on an aeroplane or by foot, but

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Speaker 3: it's very different from actually putting their physical body in

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Speaker 3: a different place. So we must encourage children to leave

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Speaker 3: the classroom during break time, to go and play on

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Speaker 3: jungle gyms, to go and run out on the soccer field,

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Speaker 3: to look at trees, to experience nature. This is all

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Speaker 3: really important for their mental health, their wellbeing, their emotional

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Speaker 3: well being. And let's think about this. And you may

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Speaker 3: have seen quite a few years ago there was a

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Speaker 3: video that came out which had a young person walking

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Speaker 3: around in the streets looking at their cell phone screen.

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Speaker 3: And what you miss when you are completely nosed to

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Speaker 3: a screen all the time, everything from human connection, to

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Speaker 3: connecting with nature, to seeing what's going on, to actually

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Speaker 3: picking up the cues that you might be in danger.

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Speaker 3: And if you think back to you know, more ancient

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Speaker 3: civilizations who were the hunter gatherers, they looked up, they

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Speaker 3: widened their field of vision to do a very quick

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Speaker 3: swat analysis strengths, weaknesses, opportunity strengths, what was happening on

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Speaker 3: the horizon. And if they spotted nothing threatening, they breathed,

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Speaker 3: they relaxed. If they did spot something threatening, what they

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Speaker 3: did was they narrowed their field of vision onto that threat,

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Speaker 3: you know, whether it was a human threat or whether

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Speaker 3: it was an animal threat, or whether it was a

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Speaker 3: weather threat. They would then narrow down their vision go

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Speaker 3: into fight or flight, and then they would they would

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Speaker 3: have to go and fight or they would have to

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Speaker 3: run away from the threat. And we've stopped doing that.

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Speaker 2: And so one of the other I guess the big

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Speaker 2: challenges that come up as well is in addition to

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Speaker 2: I guess this lack of kind of awareness of being

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Speaker 2: you know what's around us, what is happening, what threats

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Speaker 2: they might be around us, is also the impact on

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Speaker 2: us neurologically. I think we're still kind of learning what

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Speaker 2: the impact is, but we know prolonged use of cell

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Speaker 2: phones or we're learning has an impact on for instance,

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Speaker 2: our dopamine receptors, has impact on our attention spans, which

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Speaker 2: are all things which I imagine are more delicate with

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Speaker 2: children as well.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely so the neurochemicals need to learn when to fire

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Speaker 3: and when not to fire. So if they're on screens

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Speaker 3: all the time, those chemicals are working over time. So

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Speaker 3: we've got kids who are in a constant state of

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Speaker 3: stress and alert, and that would explain children battle to

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Speaker 3: fall asleep at night because their brains don't know when

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Speaker 3: to give them which neurochemical anymore. Let's take this one

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Speaker 3: step further from the neurochemicals. Let's look at the actual

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Speaker 3: structure of the visual system that the eye needs to

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Speaker 3: be exercised. It needs to work at different focal depths

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Speaker 3: on a regular basis in order to get strong enough

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Speaker 3: to know how to focus at which focal depth. So

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Speaker 3: if our children are always going to be on screens, well,

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Speaker 3: we know the amount of short sightedness that is already

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Speaker 3: being diagnosed, and the number of children who are wearing

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Speaker 3: glasses has increased so much over the years, and so

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Speaker 3: eyestrain becomes a big issue. And being able to focus

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Speaker 3: on things there and far requires different muscles in the

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Speaker 3: whole visual system. So children need to be out there

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Speaker 3: doing things that demand distance vision. Ball sports, for example,

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Speaker 3: where the ball is far away and then the ball

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Speaker 3: comes right into their field of focus, into the center

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Speaker 3: of their field of focus. That strengthens the eye, believe

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Speaker 3: it or not. For reading and writing, where they've got

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Speaker 3: a really narrow down that focus onto the page, onto

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Speaker 3: the line, onto the nib of the pen. Reading is

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Speaker 3: very difficult if you don't have a strong visual system.

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Speaker 3: So if we want our kids to be healthy readers,

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Speaker 3: it starts first with the strength of the physical visual system,

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Speaker 3: not just the ability to decode letters, to decode words.

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Speaker 3: And then let's think about something else in terms of

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Speaker 3: children being part of something bigger than yourself. You know,

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Speaker 3: when they're playing a game on a screen, when they're

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Speaker 3: on their phones, they feel like they're the master of

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Speaker 3: the universe. They're bigger than the universe. When you take

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Speaker 3: your child to come alonger and you stand on the

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Speaker 3: brink of God's window and you look over that panoramic vision,

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Speaker 3: your children suddenly realize that they're quite small in the universe,

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Speaker 3: but they're part of something magnificent. And I think this

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Speaker 3: is a really big lesson. The children need to learn

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Speaker 3: that they are part of a big universe and that

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Speaker 3: we need to protect that magnificent universe as well. But

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Speaker 3: being part of something bigger, there's this wow factor to it.

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Speaker 3: And when we are out there in the world, we

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Speaker 3: need to give our children the opportunity to seek out

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Speaker 3: views that provide this panoramic vision as far as the

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Speaker 3: eye can see. And this doesn't mean you have to

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Speaker 3: travel thirteen hundred kilometers to do. So you could be

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Speaker 3: living in the inner city. Can you go to the

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Speaker 3: top of a tall building and show your children what

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Speaker 3: it looks like to look over the city. You know,

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Speaker 3: we travel far. Some of us will travel to New

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Speaker 3: York to stand on the top of the Rockefeller Building

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Speaker 3: to look out at that panoramic view. You know, for

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Speaker 3: a reason, because it's like, wow, we've got local botanical gardens.

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Speaker 3: You can go to that the one in Roudeput, and

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Speaker 3: you can climb up to where the eagles nest and

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Speaker 3: you can look over the countryside and it's magnificent. You

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Speaker 3: can take your kids on hikes if you go to

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Speaker 3: the beach that's looking at an aoramic vision, or if

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Speaker 3: you go to the bush, or if you go on

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Speaker 3: a mountain trail. So we can do this. Go to

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Speaker 3: a local park where your children are not on a

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Speaker 3: screen and can look over a down a hill, over

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Speaker 3: a grassy expanse. And when you get there, don't rush,

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Speaker 3: Sit quietly for a while, allow your eyes to soften

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Speaker 3: and take in the full expanse before you. So we

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Speaker 3: need to model for our children a bit of stillness

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Speaker 3: from time to time. This is a life skill. Is

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Speaker 3: to sit quietly, to sit still for just maybe five minutes,

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Speaker 3: and a child who is nine years old and up

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Speaker 3: should be able to sit quietly for at least five minutes.

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Speaker 3: So practicing silence, practicing stillness, shifting gear and shifting state

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Speaker 3: from being hurry to being grounded. How do our children

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Speaker 3: learn the difference in the feeling between being hurried and

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Speaker 3: being grounded if we don't teach them how to do this?

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Speaker 3: And then there's another thing you can do with your

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Speaker 3: kids when you're sitting quietly looking at a view, and

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Speaker 3: that would be explaining and discussing and describing the sights

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Speaker 3: and the sounds around you, because there are different sites

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Speaker 3: and sounds in different places, whether you're in the bush,

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Speaker 3: whether you're at the sea, whether you're standing in a

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Speaker 3: busy city. But can they describe what they see and

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Speaker 3: what they hear, and then can they describe how it feels?

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Speaker 3: So adding vocabulary to how it feels? I mean, for me,

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Speaker 3: that feeling in the bush of that dead sound is

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Speaker 3: very different to the roar of the rolling waves coming

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Speaker 3: onto the beach when you're at the seaside. And then

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Speaker 3: think about the cadence of your breath and how it

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Speaker 3: changes in different situations. So really we're talking about giving

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Speaker 3: ourselves permission to slow down, giving our children permission to

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Speaker 3: slow down, becoming more observant. And this is not time wasted.

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Speaker 3: This is time when you deeply invest in your well being.

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Speaker 2: And so, Nikki, you know you mentioned just now the

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Speaker 2: importance of modeling stillness to your children. So your children

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Speaker 2: seeing you, you know, taking a bead, taking in, you know,

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Speaker 2: a scenery, a moment, and it reminds me of the

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Speaker 2: conversation we had last week about you know, your children

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Speaker 2: are always watching you. You are constantly role modeling things

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Speaker 2: for your kids, even when you don't realize that you are.

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Speaker 2: And so I guess then even for those of us,

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Speaker 2: you know, who cannot stand in the bank, a queue,

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Speaker 2: the grocery queue, whatever it is, without looking at our phone.

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Speaker 2: I guess even in that we need to be thinking

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Speaker 2: about what are we teaching our kids, How do we

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Speaker 2: model to our kids, how we use technology. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there are some of us who can't grown adults who

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Speaker 2: like some children, can't eat without there's something playing in

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Speaker 2: the background, them watching the show or looking at their

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Speaker 2: iPad or looking at their phone. So even with cell

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Speaker 2: phone behavior and approach to screens. Parents caregivers are also

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Speaker 2: or can be modeling behavior.

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Speaker 3: There, yes, one hundred percent. So when you're standing in

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Speaker 3: that queue to pay at your local supermarket, if your

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Speaker 3: children are with you instead of being on your screen,

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Speaker 3: have a conversation. I love it when I watch families

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Speaker 3: who talk to each other, especially in these public spaces

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Speaker 3: like restaurants or while they're shopping, that they are actually

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Speaker 3: being observant. You can get your child to describe what

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Speaker 3: they see while they're sitting in a trolley and you're

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Speaker 3: having that conversation, you're engaging. Allowing you child to help

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Speaker 3: unpack that trolley is a life skill. I'll never forget

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Speaker 3: watching a mum allowing her five year old. She passed

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Speaker 3: the eggs from the trolley to the five year old

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Speaker 3: to put on the cashier's desk. And I think half

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Speaker 3: the people in the queue were watching this and holding

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Speaker 3: their breath. But this mum spoke her child through the

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Speaker 3: whole process. We've got to be careful because eggs can break,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. Obviously, she knew her child was competent enough

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Speaker 3: to do it, Otherwise she wouldn't have allowed her child

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Speaker 3: to do it. But the educational value of that moment

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Speaker 3: was immense. So was the emotional value of my mum

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Speaker 3: believes I can, and so I can, and so giving

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Speaker 3: our children the opportunity and to engage in real life

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Speaker 3: is a huge, huge gift. Otherwise they grow up very

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Speaker 3: insular and disconnected from the real world. And that is

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Speaker 3: a big, big thing because when our children grow up,

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Speaker 3: despite the fact that they are very able on screens

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Speaker 3: and able to navigate the Internet and AI and programs

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Speaker 3: and things, because they are, you know, they still have

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Speaker 3: to engage in the real world. And right now, there

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Speaker 3: is some important research that's coming out about millennials showing

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Speaker 3: that millennials are actually quite despondent because they had this

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Speaker 3: very fantastical view of what the world, the real world

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Speaker 3: would be like when they were adults, and yet they're

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Speaker 3: still faced with having to make a living, earn enough

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Speaker 3: money to pay for the lights and the water, and

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Speaker 3: that's not so easy. Actually, So we must engage our

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Speaker 3: children in the real world because once they grow up,

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Speaker 3: they're going to have to navigate both the real and

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Speaker 3: the digital worlds at the same time in order to survive.

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Speaker 3: So let's give them that opportunity and let's make sure

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Speaker 3: that they are allowed to copy. We must model stillness

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Speaker 3: and presence and invite gratitude and wonder about daily life,

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Speaker 3: because the real world is about having wonder and gratitude,

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Speaker 3: otherwise life will be really tough. But one last thing

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Speaker 3: to add, and that is that looking out at panoramic

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Speaker 3: vision actually allows us to think more expansively and creatively,

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Speaker 3: and it improves our problem solving and creative thinking. Believe

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Speaker 3: it or not.

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Speaker 2: This conversation, also, Nick your reminds me of one we

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Speaker 2: had a couple of months ago about how parents can

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Speaker 2: reframe the suicide hour.

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Speaker 1: So that last bit of the day where you.

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Speaker 2: Need to pick up some groceries, the kids in the car,

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Speaker 2: everyone is hungry, tired, and a little bit snappy, and

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Speaker 2: that's often where you also see screens kind of being

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Speaker 2: used as a buffer because there's just so much happen

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Speaker 2: and you know, everyone's a little bit irritable. Screens also

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Speaker 2: can then be deployed there as a kind of tool.

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Speaker 2: And so it also feels like, even as we think about, well,

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Speaker 2: how do we, you know, reduce our screen time, it

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Speaker 2: also feels like reframing suicide hour, that last bit of

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Speaker 2: the day also becomes quite useful as a tool as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe we can pick that up next week and

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Speaker 3: we'll make that our conversation for next week, because suicide

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Speaker 3: Hour is a big thing and reframing it is very

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Speaker 3: important for both your children and for you. So if

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Speaker 3: our listeners want to hear read any more about our

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Speaker 3: conversation today, they can go on to Nickibush dot com

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Speaker 3: and read my latest blog and then let's pick up

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Speaker 3: on suicide Hour next week.

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Speaker 1: Great.

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Speaker 2: NICKI always a great pleasure having you on the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time. Thanks girks, Thank

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Speaker 2: you very much. That's our residents human potential and parenting

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Speaker 2: expert Niki Bush. Her latest blog is called Pause, Breathe,

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Speaker 2: Lock Up and you can find it at Nikki Bush

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Speaker 2: dot com. Coming up, we have a look at what's

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Speaker 2: happening in seven oh two Land. We start in Alex

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Speaker 2: this morning where Quabigi Langa Sports Ground is going to

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Speaker 2: be hosting the Run Alex Athletics Clubs. Mandela de Ridathon

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Speaker 2: will be joined by some Galessive Clubati who is the

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Speaker 2: head of the juniors director of the Run Alex Club.

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Speaker 2: But first it is twenty eight minutes before nine o'clock,

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Speaker 2: let's check in with you latest eyewitness news, sport with

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Speaker 2: my one day MATESA