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Speaker 1: Views and news with Clarence Ford. We all have you

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Speaker 1: voce use yours call to one double four six oh

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Speaker 1: five six seven join the conversation.

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Speaker 2: I'm kay talking.

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Speaker 1: And you are welcome to join in on the conversation

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Speaker 1: via What's happen oh seven two five six seven one

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Speaker 1: five six seven. You can call it any time an

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Speaker 1: O two one four four six five six seven. So

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Speaker 1: Yako Britz joins us head of Immigration at expat Web. Welcome, Yako,

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Speaker 1: great to have you with.

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Speaker 2: Us morning, Clarence. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So essentially, well, we're talking about a fifteenth fifteen

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Speaker 1: month extension for foreign nationals with pending visa waiver and

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Speaker 1: appeal applications. Give us the details.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so yeah, So the Partner form and Face from

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Speaker 2: the last hour on the City of March granted this

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Speaker 2: concession for waiver visa and the pill applications that are

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Speaker 2: still penning off the Department of Home Affairs. It's only

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Speaker 2: for long term visa and the pill applications, not short term. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and this concession is granted for fifteen months until they

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Speaker 2: of June between twenty seven.

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Speaker 1: We know that DHA Department of Home Affairs, they battling

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Speaker 1: a very significant backlog. To what extent have they dented it.

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Speaker 1: I also know that there's a migration they're going to

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Speaker 1: an electronic travel authorization, a points based system of sorts.

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Speaker 1: Is this just to align that big pool of applications

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Speaker 1: that they have with the online registration process.

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Speaker 2: I would say it's it's a little bit of everything.

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Speaker 2: Home EFACE just rolled out the ETA system, the electronic

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Speaker 2: travel authorization which they have stated with the G twenty,

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Speaker 2: with the with the coming in for the G twenty,

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Speaker 2: and it worked very well. We are seeing clients on

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Speaker 2: the short term short term visas that come into South

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Speaker 2: Africa it has have the electronic authorizations coming It works

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Speaker 2: smoothly and that took a lot of time and effort

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Speaker 2: to build that system because we did not have that.

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Speaker 2: And then if if we go onto what the changes

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Speaker 2: of in the past couple of months in the immigration landscape.

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Speaker 2: Now long term work visas are being being being calculated

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Speaker 2: on a point space system. As you said correctly, a

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Speaker 2: general work visa you have to score one hundred points

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Speaker 2: to to obtain a work visa. Critical skills you automatically

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Speaker 2: obtained one hundred points if your if your skill is

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Speaker 2: listed on a critical skills list, so they are making

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Speaker 2: good progress with that, but worth that it takes time

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Speaker 2: and it takes hands to do that, and that's and

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Speaker 2: that's the reason for the delay of processing of the

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Speaker 2: visa applications.

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Speaker 1: Again my guess, Jacko britshead of immigration at expat Web

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Speaker 1: and Yaco specializes in corporate and scarce skills immigration. Uh

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Speaker 1: does that give us a sense of who really benefits

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Speaker 1: from this extension? Is it we are competing with the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world for talent? Is that the objective here?

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Speaker 2: Yes? So differently so people at all currents African four

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Speaker 2: nationals that are working the talent that is into Africa

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Speaker 2: that are scarce it has to renew their visas they

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Speaker 2: are covered by this concession and we are seen in

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Speaker 2: the concession now Now it does not say your application

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Speaker 2: has to be submitted or more before certain that it's

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Speaker 2: open ended. So it's it is our guess that it

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Speaker 2: will be applicable for future applications as well that will

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Speaker 2: be made in the next fifteen months. Those foreig nationals

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Speaker 2: will also be covered by the concession.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So if you have a pending application now or

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Speaker 1: if you have what a v VFS receipt proving that

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Speaker 1: you applied before the dates that you mentioned twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: three early twenty twenty four, then your status is frozen

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Speaker 1: in a legal state.

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Speaker 2: That's correct. Yes, So what that means is you have

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Speaker 2: to still comply with the Immigration Act and its regulations.

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Speaker 2: You have to also still comply with your current visa conditions. Say,

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Speaker 2: for instance, if you are ground a divisa to work

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Speaker 2: at Kpe Talk, you must still coming to work at

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Speaker 2: Kate Talk in that specific position that you're that's endorsing

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Speaker 2: a visa. The only thing is your time period is

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Speaker 2: an extent until your outdomus thing to you or being.

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Speaker 1: Collected except talk is not a scarce skill. Okay, now

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Speaker 1: let's go to the wise Yako. We've seen this kind

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Speaker 1: of extension before. Six months, we've seen it before. Fifteen

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Speaker 1: months is a long time. What does a signal? Maybe

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Speaker 1: the backlog was deeper than I thought. Oh, we're just

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Speaker 1: getting to what the department is looking for. Some breathing room.

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Speaker 2: Breathing room and a new created backlock. Because what we

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Speaker 2: ask in in business is that we applications are being adjudicated. However,

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Speaker 2: the outcomes aren't rejected. For nonsensical reasons, and then that

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Speaker 2: now creates a non a backlock of the reel applications.

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Speaker 2: So it is it is breathing room to fix the

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Speaker 2: digitalization of the of the department and then to address

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Speaker 2: the current backlock that they are facing with the nonsensical rejections.

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Speaker 1: Let's look at the digital nomad and they and their needs.

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Speaker 1: They may not be working for a South African company,

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Speaker 1: may not be paying into the fiscus paying taxes over

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Speaker 1: a year. Uh, they may be working for a foreign company.

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Speaker 1: Do they qualify for this kind of visa in the

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Speaker 1: first places.

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Speaker 2: So it depends on if you're coming to work in

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Speaker 2: South Africa and you're working for a South African company,

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Speaker 2: you do require a South African work visa, whether it's

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Speaker 2: into company transfer work visa, a general work visa or

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Speaker 2: crystical skills visa. But if you apply for the digital

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Speaker 2: nomad visa also not remote work visa, you have to

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Speaker 2: be employed by your foreign employer in your country's origin

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Speaker 2: or another country or wherever you are based back day

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Speaker 2: and when it comes to Africa, you're not allowed to

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Speaker 2: work for the business in South Africa. You are here,

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Speaker 2: you're enjoying a viderful view of Table Mountain doing ask

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Speaker 2: our coastline. But you can't work for our employers here.

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Speaker 1: So if you're a digital nomad, you're on a tourist visa.

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Speaker 1: Basically you may be invoicing from a BMB and Airbnb

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Speaker 1: in the city, but you're on a tourism.

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Speaker 2: Visa in a sense. Yes, but that that visa just

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Speaker 2: grants you the condition that you may work in South

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Speaker 2: Africa for your foreign entity.

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Speaker 1: Okay uh And with the time frames of such a

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Speaker 1: visibly different to to one that that really benefits a

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Speaker 1: local company.

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Speaker 2: Yes. So the t moment is that it's issued for

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Speaker 2: between a year and three years. We are seeing with

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Speaker 2: applications now being issued for one year and it is

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Speaker 2: renewable in South Africa for further two years in three

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Speaker 2: year period.

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Speaker 1: I guess the rationale is just help us there. The

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Speaker 1: rationale is that while you're not you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: contributing to the tax cofers, you are economically active in

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Speaker 1: the country.

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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, you're buying our stuff, you're supporting our local shops,

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Speaker 2: You're contributing in some in some way to the economic Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now, let's just look at those who are impacted by

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Speaker 1: this extension. You're a professional working year on a pending waiver.

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Speaker 1: Can I actually leave the country for a business trip

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Speaker 1: and come back safely? Do I need anything under such circumstances?

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Speaker 2: Yes, you can trouble you causision is there and is

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Speaker 2: the largest level you have to trouble with. Interesting. The

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Speaker 2: only catch with this condition is if you're not from

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Speaker 2: a visa oversa country, you have to return to your

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Speaker 2: your country of origin or the country be your long

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Speaker 2: term status and in applying for a business reason. In sixteen,

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Speaker 2: even one too didn't return to South Africa in that

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Speaker 2: in that in that country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the employer would would also be impacted, would

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Speaker 1: they not? We got labor laws that could implicate the employer.

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Speaker 1: So I'm the HR manager, I do the talking. Joe

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Speaker 1: is my Joe is my necessary, my top engineer, and

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Speaker 1: these visa has technically expired but is pending as well.

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Speaker 1: That would protect the company as well from labor law

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Speaker 1: finds with it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, consision protecting employer as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, so then let's understand the future question. How

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Speaker 1: does this extension tie into the new trusted employer scheme?

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Speaker 1: Trusted employers seeing their applications move faster or is everyone

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Speaker 1: stuck in that same fifteen month waiting room.

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Speaker 2: Luckily not, we are seen with trust employers, the applications

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Speaker 2: are admunicated a lot faster, the requirements are reduced for

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Speaker 2: Trust the employers, so the turnerund time on those visa

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Speaker 2: applications are a lot quicker than the normal VISI applications.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So I think we've got a sense then of

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Speaker 1: that in a nutshell, and the fundamentals thereof help us

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Speaker 1: to understand the competitive nature of the world for this

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Speaker 1: kind of talent that we are seeking to attract to

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Speaker 1: South Africa. It's a very competitive space, I believe from

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Speaker 1: your vantage point, what are you seeing?

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Speaker 2: So what we see in current in the market is

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Speaker 2: a lot of C suite executives coming to South Africa

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Speaker 2: and they are being brought in by large multinational businesses,

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Speaker 2: so that South Africa needs that that skill that they

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Speaker 2: that they that we don't have, So we need that

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Speaker 2: skill that they bring in and then to upskill our

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Speaker 2: local employees.

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Speaker 1: Okay and foreign nationals. I'm sure that anxiety would be

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Speaker 1: allayed by this action by the Department of Home Affairs.

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Speaker 2: Yes, certainly we are seeing that a lot of our

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Speaker 2: clients of paining applications have anxiety that asked they are

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Speaker 2: nervous of traveling because you don't know who you face

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Speaker 2: at the border post when you exit South Africa. You

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Speaker 2: don't know if that BMI official is fully briefed on

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Speaker 2: the concession. You don't know if that person wasn't leaved

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Speaker 2: for two weeks. So it's very important that you must

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Speaker 2: make yourself familiar with the concession. You have to contact

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Speaker 2: a repute service provider care asses to you and can

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Speaker 2: guide you within nested documentation to allow you to depart

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Speaker 2: South Africa.

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Speaker 1: And again my guess is Jacko Bird's head of Immigration

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Speaker 1: at Expat where we are talking about Home Affairs extending

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Speaker 1: a generous extension to protect visa holders with pending applications.

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Speaker 1: Jacka has recently noted that while extensions are good, confidence

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Speaker 1: is the real currency, maybe suggesting that something still is

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Speaker 1: lacking in our effort to attract and hold this talent.

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Speaker 2: So I would say the departmentation is made with the

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Speaker 2: spensation they are holding the talent in South Africa because

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Speaker 2: they are showing the commitment to adjudicated visa application division

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Speaker 2: applications and they are committed to allow you to travel

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Speaker 2: in an other South Africa without being cleared undesirable. So

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Speaker 2: they are making an effort to keep the talent here.

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Speaker 1: And that's the kind of confidence that you're saying you

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Speaker 1: want and your clients want exactly.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wants to see the visa applications being processed. We

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Speaker 2: want to see that home affairs. It's not just standing

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Speaker 2: off the hands button behind their back. We want to

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Speaker 2: actively see them work. Where does digitalsation of of the

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Speaker 2: application process, new processes in place or just merely a

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Speaker 2: concession helping us and then helping them to adjuicate the applications.

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Speaker 1: The DHA has been a crime scene for for a

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Speaker 1: while now. I think we've seen what twenty dismissals as

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Speaker 1: reported by the Minister shrive but two hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: five criminal referrals. Does this extension also enable them to

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Speaker 1: root out the corrupt in their midst.

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Speaker 2: Yes, definitely it does because there's this concession allowed and

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Speaker 2: allowed of signal officials time to focus on getting the

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Speaker 2: production out, So it allows more time to focus on

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Speaker 2: the bad apples and getting rid of them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we're converting, we migrating to a digital system.

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Speaker 1: From your perspective or expat webs perspective, are we seeing

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Speaker 1: the end of the paper trail era? And are you

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Speaker 1: welcoming that end? If indeed it is so.

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Speaker 2: We are seeing the end of it and we're all

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Speaker 2: welcoming the paperless process. But with any new system being implemented,

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Speaker 2: there will be some many cups. We have to we

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Speaker 2: have to prepare for that, and we have to prepare

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Speaker 2: of all nationals come to Africa that in the beginning

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Speaker 2: phases there will be issues of the system. So we

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Speaker 2: the paperless system won't just fall away immediately once the

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Speaker 2: digitalization is rolled out. There will still be a paper

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Speaker 2: system until the system is willing one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: And that would prevent that internal collusion, that corruption that

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Speaker 1: we've seen in the past.

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Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, that will It will it will take the said,

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Speaker 2: the human fact out of it, but it will take

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Speaker 2: action worth applicants out of it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you are impacted by it, and if you are,

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Speaker 1: we'd like to get a sense from you about how

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Speaker 1: you feel about this extension. That your status is legal,

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Speaker 1: it's frozen. If you've been waiting for your application to

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Speaker 1: be adjudicated, you have another fifteen months of legal stay

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Speaker 1: in South Africa. Maybe there's some more things that you

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Speaker 1: would like to see South Africa do to attract and

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Speaker 1: to hold talent. I think South Africa is a great place.

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Speaker 1: It's a great place to stay, it's cost effective, and

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Speaker 1: of course we've got everything else that enables you to

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Speaker 1: be connected to the world. Let's talk about that system

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Speaker 1: that you mentioned earlier, one hundred point scorecard. The new

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Speaker 1: system uses this one hundred point score card. It's based

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Speaker 1: on a salary of six hundred and fifty k plus

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Speaker 1: qualifications and experience. Do you think this objective? It's an

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Speaker 1: objective approach, is it not? Will it finally stop the

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Speaker 1: inconsistent luck of the draw maybe adjudication we've seen before.

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Speaker 1: Can it move to yeah, Can it stay as objective

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Speaker 1: or is this objectivity about it at all?

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Speaker 2: It can stays is because what happens is if your

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Speaker 2: skill is not on a critical skills list and you

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Speaker 2: can't apply for a critical skills work cuaser, this new

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Speaker 2: point space system allows you to apply for it. So say,

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Speaker 2: for instance, you do not hold a correct level of

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Speaker 2: qualification like I said, your critical skills is not listed

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Speaker 2: on the critical skills list. In this point space system

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Speaker 2: allows you then to apply for a general work creaser

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Speaker 2: without like before you had to submit a waiver application

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Speaker 2: and wait for a couple of years. I'm saying here

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Speaker 2: for the waiver application to come out. So this point

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Speaker 2: space system eliminates that and it allows you, it allows

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Speaker 2: us foreign national thing to apply for a general work viser.

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Speaker 2: So one hundred percent I support this point space system.

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Speaker 1: I stay with okay, and then to get the full

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Speaker 1: fifty points for salary and applicant needs to earn nearly

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Speaker 1: one million round a year, and I think we also

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Speaker 1: have needs in the in the junior talent category. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: are we pricing them out?

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Speaker 2: We are not pricing them out. Likes the you can

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Speaker 2: get two set of points. Again, it's fifty points for

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Speaker 2: the nine undercenty six thousand, or you can get twenty

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Speaker 2: points if you earn between six hundred and fifty and

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Speaker 2: nine and seventy six thousand more. Junior people have a

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Speaker 2: higher qualification, so for instance, you have a master's or

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Speaker 2: a doctorate, you earn fifty points of really and you

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Speaker 2: earn less you earn, so between six hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: nine seventy six thousands, can you get a twenty point,

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Speaker 2: you have five years of experience. Did you get another

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Speaker 2: twenty points and you can speak any official language in

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Speaker 2: South Africa? Did you get another thing points of the year? Few?

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Speaker 2: One hundred points? So it's all about you have to

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Speaker 2: look at the points bayed system and then calculate where

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Speaker 2: do you fall in.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just going back to the digital digital nomad question,

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Speaker 1: the remote work visa essentially which which governs their presence here?

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Speaker 1: Just in terms of your experience, I don't know conversion rates.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen maybe people coming for a couple of

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Speaker 1: months and then staying longer. Maybe they realize South Africa

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Speaker 1: is that magical space, that lifestyle paradise that they want

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Speaker 1: to be in.

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Speaker 2: So yes, we are seeing a lot of funners, especially

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Speaker 2: in the recent Cape area. They apply for this remote

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Speaker 2: word tresa and they love and stands at Africa. We

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Speaker 2: have also seen them renewing that that visa to get

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Speaker 2: the full three year period.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and then I think it's also important for people

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Speaker 1: to understand or especially businesses to understand the trust the

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Speaker 1: trusted employer scheme. Why is it in your interest if

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Speaker 1: you are in search of the talent that we're talking about,

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Speaker 1: why is it in your interest to sign up?

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Speaker 2: First of all, very important, you don't have to jump

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Speaker 2: through all of the hoops to get the documentation that

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Speaker 2: you need. For instance, to get a SACKLE certificate takes

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Speaker 2: about six or twelve months. That is a completely different

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Speaker 2: backlock by the SACKWA department. You don't just you have

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Speaker 2: to submit proof that your SAKWA application is submitted. And

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Speaker 2: then for trust the employer, you didn't get the full

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Speaker 2: full duration of the visa, not just on the one

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Speaker 2: year duration. As for the directors that was issued last year.

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Speaker 2: With the year before last year by the minister, there's

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Speaker 2: been official for you. You can still track that highly

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Speaker 2: skilled person from abroad to come and work in your multinational,

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Speaker 2: multi billion round company.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk briefly about that high stakes kind of specialist

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Speaker 1: that the top end of the critical skills that we

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Speaker 1: need that specialist visa. Are we doing more because I

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Speaker 1: would imagine that's where the competition is really at as well.

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Speaker 1: Are we doing well on that particular front holding them

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Speaker 1: especially here or is there more we can do?

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Speaker 2: Yes, we are, we are doing exceptionally well holding them

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Speaker 2: here and to apply for skill skills work visa, it

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Speaker 2: is really is. It is easy. You just have to

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Speaker 2: comply with the with the minimum qualification that is required.

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Speaker 2: So definitely we are we are keeping them up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you you you haven't been a very happy man

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Speaker 1: for a very long time. And you don't say much, Yaco,

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Speaker 1: but with a little that you say, you sound like

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Speaker 1: you happy with the direction that we are are in.

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Speaker 2: Yes, for the longest of time we were not happy.

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Speaker 2: We were fighting with home and Face. But now Homer

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Speaker 2: Face has been yet in the right direction by Minister

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Speaker 2: Shiber so we are supporting him. And yeah, we're rooting

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Speaker 2: for you. Of course, ever since he has been in power,

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Speaker 2: it has been a lot a lot better.

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Speaker 1: And I get that your sentiment would be based on

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Speaker 1: the prospects for your business. I have no doubt that

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Speaker 1: your business benefits from from this. Could there be objections

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Speaker 1: about this direction that we are heading in South Africa

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Speaker 1: is a very strange country from time to time. What

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Speaker 1: would what could those objections be?

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Speaker 2: Objection? Can Homo Face officials not wanting for forward its

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Speaker 2: process to be digitalized because they just don't want to

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Speaker 2: continue learning and bettering themselves, So that is something that

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Speaker 2: might might be objected, But that there is nothing everyone

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Speaker 2: in the world is becoming digitalized, so we we as

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Speaker 2: well have to do that to keep up with the world.

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Speaker 1: And if the politics is not in sync in respect

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Speaker 1: of this extension or this real serious effort to attract

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Speaker 1: and to hold critical skills, then the politics is outdated.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: Just play that, Yakubritz. It's such a privilege to talk

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Speaker 1: to you and glean from you just where things are

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Speaker 1: at on this front. Thank you for your time. It's appreciated.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Ahead of immigration, expat web