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Speaker 1: Stephen is on The Money Show six to eight pm.

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Speaker 1: The property company Attack, they own them all of Africa.

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Speaker 1: They're developing Waterfall City. They're reporting their occupancy increasing to

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Speaker 1: nearly ninety four percent. They've increased their distributable income per

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Speaker 1: share by over five percent. Peter de Villiers is the

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Speaker 1: chief financial officer at Attack. Peter, good evening, and thanks

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Speaker 1: for your time. You've been able to increase your occupancy.

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Speaker 1: You've been building quite quickly at Waterfall City. What's it

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Speaker 1: been like finding occupants for the site there?

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Speaker 2: I think waterfalls and unique value proposition. Obviously we've got

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Speaker 2: a lot of we've done some residential developments recently. We've

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Speaker 2: only recently done a speculative office's and obviously in office

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Speaker 2: development we don't have a tenant when we start and

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Speaker 2: that completed it sort of towards the end of last year.

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Speaker 2: Our financial and filled up quite nasti. And what's that

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Speaker 2: we've greened it another office development quotely called Gateway East,

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Speaker 2: about ten thousand squares of office and that's also in leasing

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Speaker 2: up quite NASTI. So I think the office market is

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Speaker 2: called very competitive, very tight. They're stalled vacancies. We do

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Speaker 2: gohead to head with sands and in other surrounds. But

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Speaker 2: I think everyone seen that there has definitely been a

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Speaker 2: much firmer folks focus on returning to work from everyone.

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Speaker 2: There are definitely harbrid models out there and that's helping

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Speaker 2: drive office demand.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because, I mean, from what I understand of

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Speaker 1: some of your competitors' own property and center and they're

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Speaker 1: still have relatively high vacancy rates. I mean, is it

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Speaker 1: the traffic maybe? I mean, is there something in that

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Speaker 1: that's even driving through traffic now at certain times just

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Speaker 1: makes you want to oh. I won't complete that sentence,

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Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, Peter, I certain.

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Speaker 2: Traffic every day and I can't complain because that means

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Speaker 2: people are going back to work. So I think none

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Speaker 2: of us like traffic. And that was probably one of

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Speaker 2: the perks of lockdown that you could pretty much drive

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Speaker 2: anywhere and have a reasonable time and expectation when you

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Speaker 2: get there. But so traffic is definitely back, but that

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Speaker 2: needs people are back in the office, and to be honest,

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Speaker 2: we love it.

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Speaker 1: You've been able to improve your trading density at the

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Speaker 1: Mall of Africa. People are spending more money there and

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Speaker 1: I must tell you Peter. I have a friend who

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Speaker 1: says he never takes the family to Mall of Africa

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Speaker 1: because he can never find his car afterwards. Is there

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Speaker 1: a vibe to that more that's drawing shoppers and is

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Speaker 1: it working as a retail center? I mean considering the

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Speaker 1: shares size of it. I mean, obviously it must be

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Speaker 1: in a way, but I sometimes wonder if it's almost,

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Speaker 1: you know, too big to sort of be seen as

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Speaker 1: one mall.

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Speaker 2: It is a large mall, obviously not the largest in

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Speaker 2: the country, but was the largest book in a single phase,

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Speaker 2: so coming it around about one hundred and thirty thousand squares.

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Speaker 2: I think they're nice thing is that because it is

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Speaker 2: a super regional, it functions and it caters to a

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Speaker 2: very large variety in a large audience. So I think

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Speaker 2: as males will maybe say, we go on the almost

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Speaker 2: hunt and hit and run side and other people want

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Speaker 2: to wander through the mall, and hopefully we've got a

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Speaker 2: broad appeal for everyone. But it's definitely functioned very well

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Speaker 2: ten years old, and we are looking at refreshing it

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Speaker 2: in part and moving things around. But we'll have to

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Speaker 2: announce that in future once our plans of final laws.

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Speaker 2: But definitely function very well and be very proud and

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Speaker 2: happy to have an asset of that caliber.

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Speaker 1: You've been investing in more water tanks for your centers,

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Speaker 1: and I can see why you would need to do that.

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Speaker 1: How expensive is that? It must cost you something? I

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Speaker 1: mean you would you would think and certainly running them all.

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Speaker 1: You know some time ago you think, well, all I

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Speaker 1: need to do is make sure the plumbing is sorted

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Speaker 1: out and the council has the capacity. Now you have

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Speaker 1: to make sure yourself ready that your malls and developments

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Speaker 1: have enough water correct.

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Speaker 2: And there's both pros and cons to that, obviously, if

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Speaker 2: you were I mean, we put we've put that back

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Speaker 2: apport in all of ours. It's not all of them

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Speaker 2: are new and best of breed, if I can call

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Speaker 2: it a fantastic malls, but some of them are a

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Speaker 2: bit older. The advantage of developing waterfall is we get

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Speaker 2: to try and put in something from the start rather

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Speaker 2: than read fits it. So we have invested very heavily

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Speaker 2: in water and for something that we started doing thankfully

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Speaker 2: before there was this last protected pair of water archages

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Speaker 2: and great to Johannesburg, and it's definitely paying dividends. It

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Speaker 2: does mean that our initial returns are not great but

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Speaker 2: or not as good as it could be because you're

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Speaker 2: putting more capics in. But we are finding now resilience

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Speaker 2: and sustainability. You are definitely very hard on tenants wishless.

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Speaker 2: There's no point in having an office if you don't

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Speaker 2: have water, and water is one thing that cannot be produced.

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Speaker 2: So it's paying off well. I mean, we're going to

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Speaker 2: sink one hundred million into capis in our operational portfolio.

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Speaker 2: Not all of that is for water, but I think

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Speaker 2: given by by the end of twenty twenty six or

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Speaker 2: just off that we're going to have literally twelve megi

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Speaker 2: liters of storage, so we've more than doubled that in

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Speaker 2: the last while, and that we get to build that

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Speaker 2: spec into our new developments going forward as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting things you have to do. You know

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Speaker 1: that maybe you wouldn't have thought of doing earlier. Other

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Speaker 1: services you need from councils, I mean, obviously electricity, you'll

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Speaker 1: do the same thing. You'll try and generate as much

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Speaker 1: of your own as as you can do. You try

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Speaker 1: and minimize your exposure to councils. And I say this

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Speaker 1: because in some areas a service delivery really is very weak.

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Speaker 2: It is a problem in South Africa. We definitely do

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Speaker 2: try to make sure we resilience so you can have

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Speaker 2: an almost always on mentality and that does mean putting

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Speaker 2: PV on the roofs. That does mean putting extra backup water.

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Speaker 2: But more than that, it does also mean working as

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Speaker 2: closely as one can with Council and fostering a very

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Speaker 2: strong and close relationships with them. For instance, in the

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Speaker 2: broader waterfall area, you've been working with Counsel and we'll

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Speaker 2: be contributing to some additional water for the greater area

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Speaker 2: which will help us as a developer in the area

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Speaker 2: as well. That does mean be contributing towards a new

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Speaker 2: water tower in the area attend Megater water Tower. So

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Speaker 2: it does definitely require a landlord being much more skilled

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Speaker 2: in a border variety of areas than say not twenty

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Speaker 2: years ago. There are other challenges to solve, but then

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Speaker 2: lie opportunity as well.

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Speaker 1: Peter Davillis, thank you so much, Chief Financial Officer of

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Speaker 1: Attack