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Speaker 1: Monday to Friday.

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Speaker 2: Friday from nine am.

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Speaker 3: This is Fews and News with Clarence Ford.

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Speaker 4: Only on k Talk.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back. Is it Icarus? Sir? Didn't Icarus like fly

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Speaker 1: to close the sun? Something?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah it is?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm far too off and I'm like I, Chris,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm getting too old for that flying too

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Speaker 1: close to the sun stuff. Why are we talking about Icarus? Well,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a journey into the Sun. At eleven

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Speaker 1: thirty five. This is Views and News. My name is Clarence.

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Speaker 1: It's a final little lap through till twelve o'clock and

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a wonderful little journey of discovery,

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Speaker 1: this final lap, this journey into the sun. Listening to

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Speaker 1: the revolutionary Asham's records and to tell us more about

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Speaker 1: it at Ja Khan It's sonic and I'm quoting research

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Speaker 1: project and lecture performance by Cape Down journalist DJ and

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Speaker 1: sound archive. Welcome.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Karence. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: And I have no doubt that you may be triggering

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Speaker 1: some some thoughts, some memories in the process of our conversation.

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Speaker 1: And if you are triggered, you absolutely welcome to feed

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Speaker 1: into the conversation via whatsappen oh seven two five six

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Speaker 1: seven one five six seven. Better still you can you

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Speaker 1: can call at any time to one four four six

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Speaker 1: oh five six seven and talk directly to my guest

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Speaker 1: at Tia Khan. It is Heritage half Hour and often

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Speaker 1: in this Heritage half hour segment we talk about Western

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Speaker 1: k based stuff. This is not necessarily a Western k

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Speaker 1: based thing, is it.

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Speaker 3: No, But it's a I think it's a South African

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Speaker 3: heritage project or story and very relevant to musicians throughout

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Speaker 3: the country so or artists, but also audiences and fans,

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Speaker 3: you know. So it is one of our stories that

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Speaker 3: I wish to be commonly known.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So when you say the project is presented as

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Speaker 1: a sonic lecture or a live performance, what do you

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Speaker 1: mean by that?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 3: Actually, I you know, there's a there's a few pieces

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Speaker 3: of information that went out that was probably for an exhibition.

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Speaker 4: I just had.

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Speaker 3: The backstory to this is that the subject of the

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Speaker 3: story Russid Valley, who ran the label the record label

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Speaker 3: called Asham's which is the first black run record label

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Speaker 3: in South Africa. During a party, Russid Valley passed away

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Speaker 3: and I wrote an obituary about him for Africa as

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Speaker 3: a country, because that's my main medium writing as a journalist.

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Speaker 3: And a curator called Natasha jin Wala read the story

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Speaker 3: and wanted me to expand on it into like a

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Speaker 3: performance DJ lecture because I also kind of play music

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Speaker 3: on the side and have a DJ collective that I

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Speaker 3: play in. And so in the Netherlands in June I

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Speaker 3: presented this talk. And then she also runs a festival

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Speaker 3: in Sri Lanka called Columbuscope in which I presented this

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Speaker 3: work as an exhibition in January.

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Speaker 4: So in January I've just come back. It was an.

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Speaker 3: Exhibition, a few interviews and really this is the record

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Speaker 3: label that one of its most important releases was Mannenberg

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Speaker 3: right and Abdullah Brian, who we just saw perform on

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Speaker 3: Friday in Cape Town is the central part of the story.

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Speaker 3: So it was how do I take all this information

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Speaker 3: and put it into what we call a zine. So

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Speaker 3: what I have today is and for people, and what

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be launching soon in Cape Town is

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Speaker 3: this publication which I printed the Sri Lankan the curate

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Speaker 3: in Sri Lanka, the festival was very kind to print

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Speaker 3: these initial cup for me, but I'm gonna be printing more.

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Speaker 3: So it's a way to package all this information. It's

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Speaker 3: a way to package the background of Roushad Valley, the

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Speaker 3: importance of a record store called Cohinuit, which was the

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Speaker 3: most iconic record store in the country, I would say,

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Speaker 3: from the sixties seventies onwards. It also tells a part

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Speaker 3: of history that nobody really talks about, which is the

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Speaker 3: contribution of this community in Joburg. And it talks about

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Speaker 3: the iconic releases through this record record label, a lot

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Speaker 3: of which there were artists from Cape down on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And a zene is a A zene is

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Speaker 1: a DIY.

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Speaker 3: No, it's it's it's it's it's you know, it's it's

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Speaker 3: popular in protest culture. It's oftentimes a DIY, cheaply made,

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Speaker 3: mass produced thing that can be handed out, as I said,

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Speaker 3: often in protest culture.

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Speaker 4: But it's part.

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Speaker 3: It's very much a way at this point in time

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Speaker 3: globally to package and put in archives and make accessible

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Speaker 3: easily something that you know, you don't really need to

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Speaker 3: read a whole book on it.

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Speaker 4: It's all there.

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Speaker 1: Because you're distilling, you're distilling decades.

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Speaker 4: And also if you if you take a look at it.

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Speaker 3: You know, you've got maps, you've got record covers, you've

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Speaker 3: got piece of journalism. I also cut up in the

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Speaker 3: scene some comments of people who had gone to this

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Speaker 3: record store from all over the country. There are lots

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Speaker 3: of Capetonians who had heard about it, and I cut

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Speaker 3: up Facebook comments and included that, So it's a zene

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Speaker 3: is anything anyone can make one. It democratizes the process

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Speaker 3: of publishing, which for me is very liberating as a

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Speaker 3: journalist because I'm not waiting for the editor or whatever

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Speaker 3: to choose a picture. I don't have to wait, you know,

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Speaker 3: I can. It goes from me to the reader directly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so Joenny into the Sun. It's a sonic zine. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I learn the word out of zining. Is there is

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Speaker 1: there verb? He's zeining from today by at our guests.

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Speaker 1: And that's a twenty page zine. It brings to life less.

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Speaker 1: It tells story about South African cultural history. And I

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Speaker 1: think the very important point there is that Mannenburg was

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Speaker 1: in fact recorded there.

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Speaker 3: Well, Mannenburg was composition, Mannonburg was. The story behind it

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Speaker 3: is that it's Rashid Valley's father actually provided the funds

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Speaker 3: to record Mannenburg when no record label wanted to do so.

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Speaker 3: And also I'm not exactly sure where the recording happened.

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Speaker 3: I should get that information, but it's the label launched

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Speaker 3: with that album. It was before that it was known

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Speaker 3: as Soul Town and Mindla, which was a player on

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Speaker 3: the words Amandla and an Underground in Africa, which is

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Speaker 3: Updullah's previous release. But basically this is a collaboration kind

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Speaker 3: of between Rashid Valley and Abdullah because Abdullah also came

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Speaker 3: up with the name Ashamps, which is an Arabic word,

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Speaker 3: which is why the logo is written in Arabic.

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Speaker 4: It means the Sun.

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Speaker 3: So that's why I call the zine and the talk

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Speaker 3: and everything that comes off this, Like in the next

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Speaker 3: couple of weeks, I'll be doing a talk in Cape

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Speaker 3: down call with you know, launching this material. But that's

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Speaker 3: why I call it a journey into the Sun because

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Speaker 3: that's the name of the jazz label.

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Speaker 1: Ye sure. And the story stories, multiple stories in the

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Speaker 1: zine that you seek to feature, and there'll be plenty

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Speaker 1: of zines because you get a lot of material there

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Speaker 1: tell us about what what what the message is?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's it's just to lay out this

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Speaker 3: particular story of this tiny shop in Joeburg, in the

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Speaker 3: middle of downtown Choburg run by this man of Indian

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Speaker 3: descent who you know, was a visionary and also provided

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Speaker 3: so much to our cultural history. And you know, and

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Speaker 3: as I said, this whole story comes out of his

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Speaker 3: his passing, and he also I mean, it's a biggest

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Speaker 3: story of resistance because during a partet when jazz was

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Speaker 3: being especially in the seventies, there were very few venues

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Speaker 3: to perform. Black musicians were being censored in a very

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Speaker 3: big way, and he allowed total freedom of expression for

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Speaker 3: what they wanted to do. So he allowed them a

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Speaker 3: sense of humanity and pride in a time when the

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Speaker 3: apartet regime was just about dehumanizing artists. Also because a

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Speaker 3: lot of musicians would visit his shop as well as

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Speaker 3: his studios sometimes maybe and artists like Basil Man and

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Speaker 3: Berg could say would be hanging around and then jump

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Speaker 3: on the recording because he was there. There's another amazing

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Speaker 3: album with Basil and Lino play called Plumb and Cherry,

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Speaker 3: and that's one of my favorite records from this label.

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Speaker 3: Satima be Benjamin African Songbird is recorded on this label,

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Speaker 3: and I actually feel sad because Buster Williams recorded with

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Speaker 3: her and he was in Capeton at the mont Fest

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Speaker 3: of all over the weekend, and I didn't realize that

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Speaker 3: I should have actually.

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Speaker 4: Ran after him to game two places.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you saw Abdullah, Yes I did, Yes, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there's so much history there, So we're talking about

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Speaker 1: we're talking about an archive, we're talking about memory. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of emotional temperature there as well, which I

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Speaker 1: think you underpinned by a part of it at the time,

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Speaker 1: this little gray space that defied apartheid laws, where creativity

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Speaker 1: was finding expression.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, if you look at the.

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Speaker 3: Mainstream narrative of what was happening in South Africa during

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Speaker 3: the seventies, you wouldn't have a lot of evidence of jazz.

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Speaker 3: But if you look at the records themselves when they

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Speaker 3: were released, who was releasing them, who was playing together?

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Speaker 3: There were moments and places of togetherness that were happening.

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Speaker 4: There were spaces of resistance.

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Speaker 3: A lot of this new it was banned, so you know,

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Speaker 3: you have to kind of consolidate it later. So for me,

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Speaker 3: like jazz in South Africa's has always been connected to

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Speaker 3: resistance and struggle and sometimes it's not overtly in terms

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Speaker 3: of protest, but it's about you know, the pride of

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Speaker 3: existing as and by black, I'm including it in the

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Speaker 3: black consciousness term exactly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it would.

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Speaker 1: There must be some white musicians that played there as well.

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Speaker 4: I would think so.

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Speaker 3: But I think that you know Cohenurd, which was I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure if you ever heard of it. It was

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Speaker 3: like a massive record store. Well it was a small one,

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Speaker 3: but then he had a few branches. Was one of

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Speaker 3: the few places where people of multiple ethnic backgrounds could

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Speaker 3: hang out. Next to that was a place called Captains.

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Speaker 3: That's part of this big narrative. Capatans is when Mendela

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Speaker 3: used to go and take his lunch every day before

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Speaker 3: he was in serrated and so there are a lot

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Speaker 3: of political figures of again different ethnic backgrounds that would

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Speaker 3: meet at Captains. Captains was an Indian restaurant. So all

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Speaker 3: of this history is tied up to this part of

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Speaker 3: joburg that isn't it's actually like kind of run down

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Speaker 3: at the moment, you know, and this.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, yeah, you know, people like those and the

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Speaker 1: efforts and energies would probably have come to bear there

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 3: A major part of the story. A second narrative is

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Speaker 3: Pop's Muhammed, who passed away while I was while he

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Speaker 3: helped me a lot to create this work, the exhibition

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Speaker 3: and the publication and the story. When I do the

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Speaker 3: lecture performance, meaning when I just do the talk, I

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Speaker 3: play a lot of voice notes from him.

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Speaker 4: He passed away.

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Speaker 3: We didn't interview at my home in jo my parents'

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Speaker 3: home in Joburg, and he passed away three weeks after.

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Speaker 3: So he this whole project also with a dedication to

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Speaker 3: him because he worked at Goynut and a lot of

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Speaker 3: his early records, like he created strit Shits launching his

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Speaker 3: career as an artist, because he was working in a

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Speaker 3: factory before that playing in bands, but then he left

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Speaker 3: to become a full time musician, and then he got

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Speaker 3: taken on by Melt while he was working at the

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Speaker 3: record store. So Pops's narrative is also in the scene.

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Speaker 3: So the scene is like a way to provide clues

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Speaker 3: for people. If you want to go and do your homework,

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Speaker 3: you can. It might be more accessible for the everyday

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Speaker 3: reader than picking up a whole book and not having

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Speaker 3: the time to read, especially in this age of attention economy.

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Speaker 3: But globally sines are very popular. They very popular within

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Speaker 3: the art space, but they're very also popular within archiving.

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Speaker 3: It's a it's a way to get information out in

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Speaker 3: a different format.

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Speaker 1: I get that, and I think it's very handy and quick.

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Speaker 1: It kind of just tempts you to go and find

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Speaker 1: to find more on it. Exactly what was interesting.

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Speaker 4: About about about it?

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Speaker 1: It was designed to dehumanize. However, you know, the music

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Speaker 1: that came out of out of was nearly defined. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of joy in the music that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: And if you look at like I also have, I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is like a really a multi layer project. I

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Speaker 3: also have a playlist of the tunes, and if you

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Speaker 3: just listen to the tunes, so when somebody gets the

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Speaker 3: z you know, bizzen, that get the playlist. But also

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Speaker 3: I also had a mix of lecture of interviews with

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Speaker 3: the people behind.

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Speaker 4: The scenes with us.

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Speaker 3: And the music sometimes feels like not dance floor, but

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Speaker 3: for that time period, you know, for the seventies and eighties,

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Speaker 3: it's really groovy.

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Speaker 4: It's got a lot of funk. You know, Harari and.

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Speaker 3: The beatas are there, Tetemambisa, it's Dick Corsa, so there's

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Speaker 3: for me, if you listen to which you won't know

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Speaker 3: often it was disguised very well in terms of the

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Speaker 3: time period. But there's also like the album with the

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Speaker 3: Black Disco album, you know, there was a lot of

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Speaker 3: consciousness about the politics at the time and whether people

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Speaker 3: wanted to even movement in the city. There's all this

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Speaker 3: political undertones, you know, to even underground in Africa, you know,

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Speaker 3: what does that actually mean? So it's for the people

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Speaker 3: who are paying attention, for the people who know hidden

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Speaker 3: messages were everywhere. But the music is very joyful and

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Speaker 3: for me, why ashams is important is that it's literally,

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Speaker 3: for me, the best music, some of the best music

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Speaker 3: in our history, some of it in our jazz history,

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Speaker 3: and it's a great way to look at a catalog.

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Speaker 1: And established by Rashid Valley. We'll talk about Ashamsamo in

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Speaker 1: a short while. My guest is Adiya Khan. We talked

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Speaker 1: about a sonic zine I'm getting it right. It's a

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Speaker 1: Journey into the Sun, a powerful yeah, a powerful sonic

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Speaker 1: zine of course, curated by Adiya Khan and covering a

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Speaker 1: lesson told chapter of South Africa's cultural history. Rashid was

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Speaker 1: of Indian origin, was was he not?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, So how would.

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Speaker 1: He become drawn to the kind of music that he

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Speaker 1: represented eventually?

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Speaker 4: Well exactly.

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Speaker 3: And that's also part of the story, which is to

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Speaker 3: say that you know, in South Africa, and this is

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Speaker 3: also why I went to Sri Lanka because the theme

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Speaker 3: around a lot of the work in Sri Lanka was

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Speaker 3: around the Indian Ocean roots. You know, people or things

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Speaker 3: that have traveled along the Indian Ocean, soush. You know,

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Speaker 3: the Indians that came to South Africa were a lot

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Speaker 3: of them were passenger passenger Indians and worked as merchants

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Speaker 3: and traders. His father ran a grocery store on eleven

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Speaker 3: Court Street, and his father it was like a convenience shop.

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Speaker 3: And there's a lovely quote that I have in the

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Speaker 3: zine where he speaks about his father recording like Indian

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Speaker 3: traditional Indian artists in the shop or like between the

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Speaker 3: bags of flower being used as soundproofing. And it's such

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Speaker 3: a beautiful analogy of how people made a plan. And

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Speaker 3: so then I think Rashid was working. I think he

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Speaker 3: left high school and he was working in the shop

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Speaker 3: for his father, as we do with our families, you know,

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Speaker 3: we often will go and work in your parents shop

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Speaker 3: if you don't go and study or something like that.

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Speaker 3: And he started getting into jazz because he was hanging

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Speaker 3: around the area of Joburg where door Key House and

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Speaker 3: the Buntumen's Social Club was, where it was one of

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Speaker 3: the few places where black artists could perform.

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Speaker 4: So he was hanging out there.

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Speaker 3: He was meeting musicians like Keeping mcgetzie and some of

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Speaker 3: these guys and started getting records and playing it in

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Speaker 3: the shop. And eventually he takes over that shop and

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Speaker 3: it becomes Cohenu. So he takes over his father's grocery

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Speaker 3: shop in that street. And so if you look at

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Speaker 3: the stickers, like at the back of the zcene, there's

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Speaker 3: a yellow sticker. You know when you used to buy

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Speaker 3: the vinyl, there used to be stickers on that. So

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Speaker 3: that sticker shows eleven Court Street. That's where Kinu basically grew.

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Speaker 3: So and that became like Pops talks about how it

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Speaker 3: was such a hub for community on Fridays after Jumma,

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Speaker 3: because you know, Rashid was also Muslim, so but it

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Speaker 3: wasn't viewed in a way even that Islam is viewed

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Speaker 3: now where music and culture so separate, you know now,

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Speaker 3: whereas then it was like, you know, you could be

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Speaker 3: practicing and you could run as a record label. So

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Speaker 3: after Jamasala he would go there. They would have berryani

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Speaker 3: and fish and chips and poloni and sit with like

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Speaker 3: parcels while people came from far across the country. But

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Speaker 3: these were also record executives, international musicians.

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Speaker 4: So the guy who ran.

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Speaker 3: Melt, Robert Chanz, he came to the shop and that's

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Speaker 3: where Pops met him, and that's how Pops left to

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Speaker 3: become this artist on Melt, which he then became like

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Speaker 3: a curative for and put so many other archers on.

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Speaker 3: You know, Melt became a very big label in the UK.

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Speaker 3: So I think there are stories upon stories, and you

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Speaker 3: will just see from the tributes when he passed away

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Speaker 3: how many people still today. There's even a really nice

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Speaker 3: anecdote of school children I think in Soweto who someone

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Speaker 3: who said they used to use the record bag as

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Speaker 3: a status symbol to put their textbooks in.

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Speaker 4: And cool to say like I went to that shop.

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Speaker 1: You know, I can well imagine, I can well imagine,

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Speaker 1: and just in my little journey through jazz, of course,

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Speaker 1: the name or the names have kind of kind of

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Speaker 1: popped up been some integral part of my life, and

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Speaker 1: I think historically it has challenged very narrow let's just say,

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Speaker 1: definitions of identity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, because it's also like I'm really as a journalist.

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Speaker 3: Those feeds into my work as a journalist, which is like,

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Speaker 3: what are the stories we aren't telling?

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Speaker 4: Who are the figures?

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Speaker 3: There are so many people in South Africa who have

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Speaker 3: contributed culturally, who passed away without telling this story, who

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Speaker 3: passed it without being known, who didn't want to spe

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Speaker 3: in the limelight, who had massive contributions, whose family might

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Speaker 3: have thrown or given away the entire life's work.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: So it's up to us.

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Speaker 3: But there's very few of us because you know, print

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Speaker 3: media is really dying, and so we have to, like

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Speaker 3: I have to move into other avenues because in terms

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Speaker 3: of arts and culture journalism, you know, there's no way

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Speaker 3: to really get get paid or employed.

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Speaker 4: I didn't want to go there, but no, Black it's.

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Speaker 3: The yeah exactly, it's the truth. You know, So what

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Speaker 3: what are other ways to package the stories? And funny enough,

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Speaker 3: I'm not funny enough.

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 3: I was very touched that the audiences in Sri Lanka

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Speaker 3: were completely not only did they love the zine, which

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Speaker 3: is where it was launched, it hasn't launched in South

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Speaker 3: Africa yet, and they loved the story exactly. That's what

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Speaker 3: I was. They love the story and I mean it's

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Speaker 3: all again. But usually I would be playing a vinyl

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Speaker 3: talking and being like, okay, we're gonna listen a bit,

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Speaker 3: so it's like a listening session talk thing. So I'm

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Speaker 3: just gonna be printing more and then launching it here

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Speaker 3: in the next few weeks.

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Speaker 1: I always had an issue because the Maddenburg is spelled

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Speaker 1: as one n oh, and for some reason on that

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Speaker 1: particular album it's spelled with a double.

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Speaker 3: I know it's something I've been making a mistake and

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Speaker 3: all the time when I'm writing, I always mistake the

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Speaker 3: double in Yeah, I know what you mean.

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Speaker 2: I was very confused, but about people accepted the double yeah,

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Speaker 2: except they defied the single N because the single N

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Speaker 2: is money in bar and it talks to a farm.

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Speaker 1: One of those missionary workers, and it wasn't even it's

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Speaker 1: money in back Man and Mountain with a single inn

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Speaker 1: money Okay, yeah, the guy that worked in the area

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Speaker 1: was double a right man Moon and mount moon, Moon

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Speaker 1: and mountain, man in.

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Speaker 4: Bar that's really yeah.

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Speaker 1: So right now Mann and Berg is spelled with a

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Speaker 1: single inn, money in back, man and mountain, and then

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Speaker 1: this double inn came in. They said, we we're gonna

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Speaker 1: take away this colonial name. We're gonna spell it with

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Speaker 1: a double n. There's not much of a difference, but

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know what dollar brand says, so then yeah,

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Speaker 1: no one's going to argue with the delibrin.

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Speaker 3: And also what is amazing is when I was in

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Speaker 3: Zimbabwe playing the song some years ago, people recognize it.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you're in New York, people recognize it.

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Speaker 3: Like how did something that basically had no words become

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Speaker 3: an anti apartic anthem? And it was because it was

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Speaker 3: performed at uwc rallies, it was performed at funerals, it

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Speaker 3: was performed everywhere. I also, as somebody who wasn't alive

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Speaker 3: at the time, have to just like really hang on

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Speaker 3: to the facts of stories of others because I'm very

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Speaker 3: likely to get it wrong.

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Speaker 4: So it's very important as a journal.

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Speaker 1: Why is it important because you're read in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: Why is it so important today?

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Speaker 4: Why is this story important?

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Speaker 1: Well, the same sun that shone over Ashams. Why is

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Speaker 1: it important to shine today?

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Speaker 4: Because we have to remember these stories and these people.

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Speaker 3: And it for me makes me very proud to know

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Speaker 3: the story and be able to share it. And it

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Speaker 3: also takes away from the fact that we think of

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Speaker 3: history in a singular lens, and that's very, very upsetting.

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Speaker 3: As somebody who I feel like South Africans don't know

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Speaker 3: their own history, especially my generation and younger because of

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Speaker 3: the colonial teachings in school.

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Speaker 4: So I do think we need to do all the

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Speaker 4: work I propose.

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Speaker 1: The message then is as relevant today. It is about universality,

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Speaker 1: it is about freedom for everybody and it can be

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Speaker 1: found in that music. Thank you for well introducing me

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Speaker 1: to a new word zine. I'm going to do a

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Speaker 1: zine now as well, Asham the Sun and Atiya Khan

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Speaker 1: the launch in South Africa.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm just going to print some more copies and

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Speaker 3: then release it. I'll share on Instagram at Tia car.

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Speaker 1: We want to complete with that performance.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, we're going to do We're going to do

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Speaker 4: the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: The one thing I should mention is that when it

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Speaker 3: should passed away, somebody called Callum mc norton on the label,

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Speaker 3: so the label continues. There's a whole archive online, all

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Speaker 3: the stories online so people can go and do this research.

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Speaker 1: We have to wrap. Thank you so much time