1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: You're with Clement Manya Taylor on seven Let's walk the 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Talk streaming on the Prime Media Plus. 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 2: Ad DearS TV channel eight five six. 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 3: Ninety two point seven and one O six FM. 5 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 2: Eight minutes after seven nine o'clock. Not seven o clock. 6 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: That was what two hours ago? It's eight minutes now 7 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: after nine o' clock, do Milla. Welcome to the Thursday 8 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 2: edition of the Clement Mantela Show. Thank you for being 9 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: with us here. On seven oh two, I Trust Your World. 10 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: This morning, we start with the seven oh two open 11 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: line on oh one one eight eight three oh seven 12 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 2: O two. The what's up line is oh seven to 13 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: seven oh two one seven oh two. What the heck 14 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 2: is going on in our SAPs? Just when you thought 15 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: this is a broken system with corruption and the road 16 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: going too deep, more wheels are getting off, the house 17 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: of cards are tumbling down. Our National Police commission and 18 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: plant tram Kanazzi is it now? They're gonna say, oh, 19 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: you want him to be the National Police Commissioner. Our 20 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: National Police Commissioner for Nima Simula is expected to appear 21 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 2: in court next month. He's expected to be charged in 22 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: relation to that three hundred and sixty million Rand SAPs 23 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: tender there was discoud to alleged criminal ket Matala. What's 24 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: interesting for me is that IDAC is only acting on 25 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 2: him now, even when rumors of his arrest have been 26 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: around for some time now. So I one day if 27 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: IDAC was mainly still investigating or if they were worried 28 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 2: about acting right after that July press briefing, because they 29 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: probably would have been you know, they would have been 30 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 2: seen as being part of the problem, especially because General 31 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: and Plan slam Quasi made allegations against IDAC and its investigators. 32 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: Oh maybe because IDAC was looking at a completely different 33 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: matter that had nothing to do with this three hundred 34 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: and sixty million rand tender. Now, what is the National 35 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: Police Commissioner likely to be charged for? News twenty four 36 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: which has been brilliant at reporting on the road in 37 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: the SAPs, particularly this tender that was dissed out to 38 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: Kat mccala. They are importing that their sources have confirm 39 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: that the Commissioner, the National Commissioner that is, will be 40 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:22,119 Speaker 2: charged because he failed in his duties as an accounting officer. 41 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: He ignored two warnings that this tender that was given 42 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: to Kate mccala was marred by fraud and corruption and 43 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: as a result, Kate mccala's company was paid fifty million 44 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: rand because of these delays in acting. He was warned 45 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: before and after the awarding of the tender, So his 46 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: inaction led to Mattala's company being paid fifty million rand 47 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: before the deal was even canceled. So why did it 48 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: take the National Police Commissioner fifty four days for him 49 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: to send a letter to kat Matlala threatening termination of contract. 50 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: There was already an internal audit report sent to him 51 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: in January. That report said sir, it's within your authority 52 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 2: to act immediately, and he decided to act fifty four 53 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 2: days later. Why it's important to ask why, because that 54 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: delay is the problem. That delay has led to fifty 55 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: million rand being spent by the essaypers and flowing into 56 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 2: Matala's company. Remember, the National Police Commissioner was actually asked 57 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: at the Mazzanga Commission about this delay and when he 58 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: actually acted, because before he even awarded this tender, he 59 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: was warned by IDEK that it looks like there's a 60 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: problem around this tender and the National Commissioner said, oh, 61 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: I checked compliance to prescripts and I found actually there 62 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: seems to be compliant. Here here's a reminder of what 63 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: he told the Malaner Commission when he was asked about 64 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: when he acted against this tender. 65 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 4: The safety and from there they will do in terms 66 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 4: of supply chain processes, whatever evaluation, whether they do through 67 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 4: points system, whatever, and then they will recommend to the 68 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 4: bit adjutication commit So in this specific one, the same 69 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 4: process was followed and the BAC then are located the 70 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 4: two Medicaid twenty four to a district. But I must 71 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 4: say that somewhere in that process I did get an 72 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 4: indication of a call from one of the members of 73 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 4: AIDE to say, is concern about a company called Medicaid 74 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 4: twenty four that is bidding for this contract and it 75 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 4: might have no tax cur and certificate and it was 76 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 4: involved in TEMBISA, And I did inquire from the eleven officials, 77 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 4: which there was an eighteen divisional commissioner by then. I 78 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 4: inquired about that and the response I got was that 79 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 4: people get given a specific period to submit an updated 80 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 4: tax cleerence certificate, which in this case Medicaid twenty four 81 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 4: have submitted a valid tax ceren certificate. And also Medicaid 82 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 4: twenty four is not blacklisted by the National treasure on 83 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 4: the Central data Base. As a result, they are free 84 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 4: to beat like anybody else. And I think, yeah, that 85 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 4: was the I gave them that feedback and that was it. 86 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: See that was the National Police Commissioner. So the question 87 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 2: that will be asked is did he violate the Public 88 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: Finance Management Act because he's bound by law to take 89 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: effective and appropriate steps to prevent unauthorized, irregular and fruitless 90 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: and wasteful expenditure and losses from criminal conduct. I mean, 91 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 2: in this case, I think is going to be so important. 92 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: I think it's going to set an important precedence. You know, 93 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: is a public official in authority, you have a responsibility 94 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 2: to act time yossly and with urgency when there are 95 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: irregularities flegged to protect the institution. You can be deally 96 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: dialing when ever. It's so clear. So the question now 97 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: is how do you justify him staying on the job 98 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: while he deals with this matter in the courts, And 99 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: an acting appointment is going to be necessary here now, 100 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 2: at least pending the outcome of his legal proceedings, and 101 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: I suspect that he will step down. I'm sure that's 102 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: what's being negotiated now. So do you agree that he 103 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: must step down or be placed on precautionary suspension or 104 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: do you think that that is going to add more 105 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: instability on the police. And who do you think could 106 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,599 Speaker 2: act as National Police Commissioner while my simular deals with 107 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 2: his issues in court. I know some of you have 108 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 2: mentioned General Conazi, but his contract ends at the end 109 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: of this month, and I'm not sure if he has 110 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: already signed a new one already. But also don't you 111 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: need someone who is separate and removed from this scandal? 112 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: Because General Connlazi made allegations against kt matlalatter guiding this contract, 113 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 2: does that make him conflicted or do you think it 114 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: doesn't matter? He is the one to be trusted right now? 115 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 2: Give me a call on one one eight eight three 116 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: h seven oh two what's up? Seven two seven oh 117 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 2: two one seven oh twos. 118 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: Clement Manya Tela streaming on the Prime Media Plus. 119 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 2: At Dear TV channel eight five six ninety two point 120 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 2: seven and one six at them. 121 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 5: Good morning Clement and all seven o two lenders. This 122 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,359 Speaker 5: is Emma from Victoria Yokokaubota. Is that a criminal charge 123 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 5: or is that an issue that should be dealt with administratively? 124 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 5: That's my first question. My second question is that it 125 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 5: doesn't seem like he's charged yet. It seems like they're 126 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 5: thinking of charging him. Are we really discussing the right 127 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 5: thing at the right time? 128 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 6: Callible, Good morning. It's Kevin from Rodiport. In all fairness, 129 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 6: let's be honest. If I was the president this morning, 130 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 6: I was gonna suspect and similar this instinct. 131 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 7: It's crazy. 132 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 8: What's going on. 133 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 6: It's crazy. He must be suspended immediately. Besides this subpoena, 134 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 6: why do you supina somebody, if you've got evidence, he 135 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 6: should be arrested. He should have appeared yesterday with the others. 136 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 9: Thank you kindly. 137 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be a tricky one. I'm telling you. 138 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: Let's see how the president and the police minister are 139 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 2: going to deal with it. You're calling us from Rumfontine. 140 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: What are your thoughts? 141 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 8: Good morning, Good morning, Tremond, Tremond. I think we're making 142 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 8: the point. Yet, if it was for me, I spend 143 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 8: find it looks like a very good guy and he 144 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 8: was suspending him Minims WMI and if you checked the 145 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 8: Madanga inquiry, these guys were always acting against the bad guys. 146 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 8: To me, he's on the side of the good guys. 147 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 8: And if if end of the day they do suspend him, 148 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 8: they must not make someone to act on the SATs. 149 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 8: Let me just call it a profitor from ves or 150 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 8: from ucit to act until it's much of cattalize. Yeah, 151 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 8: it's to finalize. Then suppose you to our point. Okay, 152 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 8: but for me the requitment. 153 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, but but but here here are the facts. He 154 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: didn't act time lessly to cancel kat Matala's contract. And 155 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 2: of course there's not evidence. There's not even a suggestion 156 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 2: that is going to be charged for corruption because he's 157 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: somehow benefited. We'll find out soon. But from what we 158 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 2: are hearing is that he's going to be likely likely 159 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: to be charged for violating the Public Finance Management Act, 160 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: which says you have to act with urgency. He was 161 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: warned even while this tender before he was given, he 162 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 2: was warned by Eidech that hey, this guy, you guys 163 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 2: are about to give a tender too, is quite a problem. 164 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 8: But Clement, he was warned. But it according to me, 165 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 8: that's forty four days he was in a He said 166 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 8: as a head to kind of just take let's say 167 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 8: that advice you just without making he said, he said, and 168 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 8: fifty four it's just a fireable six months, eight months. 169 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 2: Fifty four days, while fifty million rand is being sent 170 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: to kat Matala's company. 171 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 8: But it is very bead. That's that's contract Matala, the 172 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,719 Speaker 8: new Lucuse. I mean, if the new Lucuse are in 173 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 8: the camp Timothy's contract, of course, I mean it's just 174 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 8: a fareble guys. Let us joint let's. 175 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 2: All right, says it's justifiable the delays or the period 176 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 2: that the National Police Commissioner took in just dealing with 177 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 2: this contract before it was terminated. But remember in those 178 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 2: fifty four days, fifty million rand left the coffers of 179 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 2: the essay ps and it went to kat Matlala. And 180 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: you know, you know exactly wate ended up after it 181 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: reached kat Matala's company, don't you christas you calling for Midran, 182 00:12:58,559 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: Good morning. 183 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 10: Good morning, good morning, Clement. 184 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 11: Clemen. 185 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 10: We do know that Paulo Sullivan always wanted my similar 186 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 10: to be removed there so that they can install their 187 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 10: men for me. I'm said then that he's going to live, 188 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 10: because we understand that he's the one who went to 189 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 10: court to speak on behalf of Kuma, so that Kumala 190 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 10: can to work. So who's going to speak for my 191 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 10: similar this time around? I don't think there's anyone. If 192 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 10: the court decides whatever, whatever finishing they is there, we 193 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 10: don't know. However, for me, the I Tech team is 194 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 10: the same team of my Pride. 195 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 9: It's the same. 196 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 10: Team that Paulo Sullivan you to chase personning with. Now, 197 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 10: with that in mind, then when I Clement, we cannot 198 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 10: assume that I Tech is acting independently because now they 199 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 10: have chosen fights in this in this fight so to stick. 200 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 10: Now we don't know the charges that I must stay categorically, 201 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 10: but for me, IDE needs to be reconstituted as an 202 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 10: independent team. Currently they are too much that even themselves 203 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 10: for us to consider that the work that they're doing 204 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 10: is truly independent. 205 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 2: Okay, costs, let me ask this right, And I'm trying 206 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 2: to move away from IIDA, but to still bring it 207 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: back on the issue of the National Police Commissioner. I mean, 208 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: I really think that Fani ma Simular is a cool person. 209 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 2: He's very level headed, he is very calm, He's got 210 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 2: a calm demeanor. He seems to be someone who understands 211 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: the job. Is a career politician I'm not suggesting that 212 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: that means that he may not be involved in corruption 213 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: or not do any regular things. But what I'm saying 214 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: is I'm picking up that there's often a lot of 215 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: sympathy that comes towards even the decision he makes. Because 216 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: I remember when we debated on the show why he 217 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: took an illegal instruction, for instance, from a police minister. 218 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 2: A lot of people are like, yeah, but it's very 219 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: tough to get instructions from your boss and you don't 220 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: do anything about it, you may be fired. But if 221 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 2: it's somebody else, I wonder if you would take the 222 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 2: same position, or you would still be tough and say, 223 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: when you are in a possession of authority like that, 224 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 2: the stakes are too high and we expect you to 225 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 2: be a brave employee. So when your boss comes and 226 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 2: gives you an illegal instruction in your position of authority, 227 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 2: you have to stand your ground and not be easily 228 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 2: worried about, oh what if I lose my job. That's 229 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 2: not this commissioner we need in that position, Clement. 230 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 10: So there's there's something that Marcemula has maybe another person 231 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 10: really has. He was honest, he said you will carry 232 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 10: it trickly now, my Samil is a carrier called Clement, 233 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 10: who wanted this job. I'm not different than the guy. 234 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 10: But I remember very well. We know when A claimed 235 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 10: that Marcemuil was not the first choice guy on those 236 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 10: interviews because there was no way you could have Beatenasi 237 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 10: on that interview. So Marcemula was put because he was 238 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 10: the guy who. 239 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 8: Was called complied. 240 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 2: Okay, Christas Madran, thank you so much. Let me bring 241 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: in now Professor for Skatalia, who's the acting Minister of Police. 242 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 2: Professor Collia, thank you so much for making tom for us. 243 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: Good morning. 244 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 7: Pleasure, Good morning Clement. 245 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 2: Have you met with President Sirama Posa yet to discuss 246 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 2: this issue with the National Police Commissioner. 247 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 7: Yes, just just after the cabinet meeting yesterday, Minister Kubai 248 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 7: and myself had a brief meeting with the President. We 249 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 7: discussed quite briefly some of the options and he then 250 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 7: instructed me to I'm going to be present to him 251 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 7: in writing some reflections on on on how we can 252 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 7: how we should respond to the events yesterday. But of 253 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 7: course this will be the President's decision under the constitution 254 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 7: and legislation. And yes, I have had a conversation with 255 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 7: General Massamola, and I will be addressing the Board of 256 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 7: Commissioners that's the senior police officers this afternoon and I'm 257 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 7: happy if you've got the time and your inclination to 258 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 7: discuss with you other steps I've taken I'm planning to 259 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 7: take well. Yes, So apart from the what I've already mentioned, 260 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 7: I've asked General Koa, who's responsible for HR management, to 261 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 7: respond to the possible gaps and capacity gaps that we 262 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 7: might be created because there's a substantial number of senior 263 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 7: police officers who have been charged, so we need to 264 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 7: take some steps to plug those gaps. Secondly, I've had 265 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 7: a discussion with General and Timpane. These are both, you know, 266 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 7: senior police officers. They are very competent and in my view, 267 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 7: very reliable. General timpan has been asked I want to 268 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 7: set up an intervention team to look at procurement in 269 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 7: general and how to strengthen the control environment because clearly 270 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 7: the problem is not just with a single contract, which 271 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 7: is bad enough, and so we need we need to 272 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 7: in a sense look at the current situation and say 273 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:31,479 Speaker 7: how do we ensure that procurement is managed correctly going forward? 274 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 7: In that regard, I've had a discussion with Minister you know, 275 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 7: Godon Gwana, in charge of the Treasury, because they usually 276 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 7: provide some support for a process like this. I will 277 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 7: be having a conversation with order to General. So I 278 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 7: want to make sure that we have a strong intervention team, 279 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 7: which will include outside experts, and I'm going to set 280 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 7: up an interim governance panel to advise me on the 281 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 7: implementation of the recommendations of the Adlanga Commission and more 282 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 7: broadly on the professionalization of the police service. I've had 283 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 7: some discussions with Professor Fin Kenny of the PI Public 284 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 7: Service Commission along these lines, because clearly what we now 285 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 7: need to do is look ahead and ask the question 286 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 7: what kind of police service do we want to build 287 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 7: in the next decade and what are the steps that 288 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,239 Speaker 7: are necessary to change the picture from what it is 289 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 7: now to what we want to build and achieve. 290 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and thank you so much for that extensive explanation 291 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 2: of the steps you're going to be taken in the interim. Now, though, 292 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: profit I understand you're going to be writing to the 293 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 2: President with the different options. He takes the ultimate decision, 294 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 2: but from your preliminary reflections and the conversation you've had, 295 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: do you think it would be appropriate for the National 296 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: Police Commissioner to still be in the job while he 297 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: ventilates this matter in court. 298 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 7: Look, this is obviously the key question. It's a critical question. 299 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 7: If you don't mind, I would like to have that 300 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 7: conversation with the National commission and the President before I 301 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 7: express a view publicly on that matter. 302 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: Okay. And the options though that you have discussed with 303 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 2: the President, are you able to confirm if one of 304 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 2: them has been a possible precautionary suspension? 305 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 7: Now, yesterday we didn't go into any level of detail, 306 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 7: and that's why I am and already have a draft 307 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 7: document that I will send to the Presidency today setting 308 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 7: out some options. But as I say, it's for the 309 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 7: President to decide. And let me make it very clear 310 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 7: that the President is taking, in my view, a very 311 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 7: correct position, which is to say that IDAC is an 312 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 7: independent body. It has made decisions to to charge a 313 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 7: number of individuals, including the National Commissioner. And I must 314 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 7: point out because I think it's an important fact that 315 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 7: the National Commissioner has been charged with breaches of the 316 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 7: Public Finance Management Act, not for the corruption the public 317 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 7: may may feel that that's putting too fine a point 318 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 7: in it, but I feel that I should make that 319 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 7: point and we're going to have to make a careful 320 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 7: decision about what our options are now that the National 321 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 7: Commissioner has been charged. 322 00:21:54,760 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 2: What's your message to South African's professor Cachalia, Because oh 323 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 2: my goodness, they just don't know if they can even 324 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: trust the SAPs. We've got a permanent Minister of Police 325 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 2: who's on special leave or suspended. The head of Intelligence 326 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: has been charged. Now the Police Commissioner is about to 327 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: be charged. The Deputy National Commissioner for Detection for Crime 328 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 2: Detection Shadowsibia is on suspension. The head of the Hawks 329 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: and case and is on suspension. The head of Organized 330 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: Crime and Houting is on suspension. Where does this leave 331 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 2: our confidence as members of the public in the SAPs. 332 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 2: How do you assure us that we can still trust 333 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 2: this institution and its work. It's still family in progress. 334 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 7: Look, this is what I truly deeply believe, and it 335 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 7: is certainly my responsibility while I am while I have 336 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 7: executive authority. The issue for me, once we've made an 337 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 7: assessment of where we are and it's not a pretty picture, 338 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 7: is what steps are necessary to define the future, to 339 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 7: reshape the how policing occurs in this country, to build 340 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 7: a police service that is worthy of the respect and 341 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 7: trust of our people. I believe we can do that 342 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 7: if we start to have a conversation which is which 343 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 7: is future oriented, which is constructive aimed at addressing the 344 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 7: fundamental problems we can all see. You know, I watch 345 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 7: like all, like many of their listeners. I've been watching 346 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 7: them at Langa Commission, in the Adult Committee, with the 347 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 7: mixture of despair and anger and outrage. But my responsibility 348 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 7: is not simply to to have feelings and emotions about 349 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 7: about what is wrong in steps, but to see what 350 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 7: can be done to rebuild the trust that policing depends 351 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 7: on in the country. I believe we can do that. 352 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 7: And I will also make this point, the picture that 353 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 7: is emerging is not the whole story. There are very 354 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 7: highly trained, highly competent police officers in the leadership of 355 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 7: the organization, and there are hard working police officers across 356 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 7: what is a national organization made up of one hundred 357 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 7: and eighty thousand police officers with police stations across the country, 358 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 7: who are every day involved in fighting crime. And I 359 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 7: worry actually that many of them will be looking at 360 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 7: what's happening. It will be very demoralizing. So have our 361 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 7: message for them as well. Let us work together to 362 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 7: rebuild a South African police service, because we need a 363 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 7: South African police service that is competent, that is professional, 364 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 7: that is accountable, and I believe that. You know, we 365 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 7: have made a lot of mistakes over the last thirty years. 366 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 7: We have to understand what those mistakes have been and 367 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 7: correct them. And the mistakes have not only been made 368 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 7: by senior management in the police. It is also been 369 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 7: made by politicians who have abused power, who have overstepped 370 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 7: their mandates, who have not focused on what they were 371 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 7: supposed to be doing. So there's a lot of blame 372 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 7: all around. But once once we beyond that, the questions 373 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 7: always remains what must we do to change this picture? 374 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for making time for us. I 375 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 2: really appreciated Professor Firosca Chalia, Acting Police Minister, confirming on 376 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 2: seven o two this morning that the National Police Commissioner 377 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 2: is being charged for violating the Public Finance Management Act. 378 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 2: So not necessarily the corruption that's been reported elsewhere in 379 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 2: as far as this three hundred and sixty million rand 380 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 2: tender is concerned. Let's get the latest to night witness 381 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 2: news headlines. 382 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: Your voice, your station, your out in line of. 383 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 9: At all with clem. 384 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: I'm seven eighteen here, it's twenty minutes before ten out lock. 385 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 2: You've heard what the acting police Minister has said. He 386 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 2: has assured you that you don't need to worry. We 387 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: still have very dedicated women and men in blue who 388 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 2: take the work seriously and who take seriously also the 389 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 2: responsibility to protect you. But also as a police officer. 390 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 2: You've heard the assurance that he has made to you 391 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 2: as well. And if you're a police officer, I would 392 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 2: like to hear from you when you see all of 393 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 2: this happening. Are you demoralized? Are you happy? Because you're wondering? Okay, 394 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 2: maybe this is a cleanup. This is an overhaul of 395 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 2: the system, and it's important for the system to go 396 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 2: through that overhaul. Oh does it make you wonder what's 397 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 2: the point of our work? Give me a call on 398 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 2: oh one one eighty three or seven oh two, or 399 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 2: maybe just send us a worts of voice. Note you 400 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 2: can do so anonymously on seven to seven oh two 401 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 2: one seven o two. Import you're calling us from Pretoria. 402 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 12: Good morning, Good morning, Clement, thank you for taking my call, 403 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 12: and good morning to your listeners. Sure, Clement, I'm glad 404 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 12: that the problem, you know, touched on the system, you know, 405 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 12: the the big time irregularities with the system. And I 406 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 12: think that's the first thing that we need to look at. 407 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 11: Personally. 408 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 12: I don't think that ma similar should make it office 409 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 12: because he's dealing with He acted within their confines of 410 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 12: the internal processes, you know, to your reference. There were 411 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 12: external bodies that warned him or about the sender or 412 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 12: the stand up process. Yeah, he says he interrogated those points. 413 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 12: The two points was, one day, take serience, which you 414 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 12: can't get disqualified is on the tax in uncompliances given us. 415 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 12: You must be given an opportunity to retify that. The 416 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 12: second one is that they said he was involved in 417 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 12: that in visa. But the guy's got a lot of companies, 418 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 12: so we don't even know. I mean, I mean when 419 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 12: when he interrogated it, the team said, but the thing 420 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 12: this company is not he registered on the treasure. He's 421 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 12: not left on the treasure. 422 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 11: But the system. 423 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 12: That's that's that's the thing, right, all competitive billers should 424 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 12: have could have gone to court and and and and 425 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 12: you know try to interda this process, but they didn't. 426 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 12: My understanding is my similar only canceled the contract because 427 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 12: of an unperformance. This company was supposed to bring stuff 428 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 12: and they bought you know, equipment or material from sets 429 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 12: themselves and it was unperforming and there was a reason 430 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 12: for the cancelation, but to to want to charge him 431 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 12: and prosecute him and you know, have him fired because 432 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 12: he as an accounting officer. You you account your processes, 433 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 12: if your process is three processes and whatever, say that 434 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 12: this is the recommend this is a company that we recommending, 435 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 12: goes to put a signature and move on. 436 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I get you, and I think you're making fair 437 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 2: points simple, But how did he deal then? How did 438 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 2: he satisfy himself when it comes to the the character 439 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 2: of the man who was behind the company that was 440 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 2: trying to get this tender. Because IDAC said this man 441 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 2: is involved in what's already being investigated at the Tembisa Hospital. 442 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 2: I mean, isn't it at that point that as a 443 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 2: National Police commissioner he pauses and he says, oh my goodness, 444 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to either interdict this from going ahead pending 445 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 2: the finalization of our investigations even into how far he 446 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 2: is intricately linked in the Tembisa hospital scandal. Didn't he 447 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 2: have that responsibility? 448 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 12: You know, Clement, and you are always caught between a 449 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 12: rock and a hard place with these guys, right, and 450 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 12: it's on all of these political opponents. And that's why 451 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 12: you know that the proper sat we need to look 452 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 12: at this thing. One is if he had done that, 453 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 12: he would be dealing with this company now in the 454 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 12: court that the process was in edited unlawfully. You know, 455 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 12: now you want you want to play the man. Now 456 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 12: you don't want to play the game. The game is 457 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 12: the man putting it, put in his bid, and the 458 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 12: bid went through a process, an internal process. Whether that 459 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 12: internal process was influenced by the men or not. Material. 460 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 12: You know that the accounting officer will claim that he 461 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 12: had no knowledge of this the bid arrived at the 462 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 12: accounting officer insie, we have gone through ninety days or 463 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 12: one hundred and twenty days validity period admunicating this bit 464 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 12: his baits and this is the winning better sign it 465 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 12: and let's move on. And and this is this is 466 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 12: the exactly what I'm saying. You can celebrate. You can't celebrate, 467 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 12: and then you're in the court because the guy is 468 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 12: suing you for unlawfully canceling a process. Then you are 469 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 12: fired because you didn't take the right step by a canceling, 470 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 12: and you don't cancel abate, the guy is awarded, he's 471 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 12: paid fifty million. Then you then you are still in 472 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 12: the cause for awarding the bid with with a guy 473 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 12: knowing his character. So you know what are we talking 474 00:30:59,080 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 12: about here? 475 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 2: Pop, Thank you so much for your contribution in Pretoria. Mark, 476 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: you are instant Huron. What do you think? Hello? Mark? 477 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 9: I here see that? 478 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 2: And oh Mark, Mark, your line is not good, my brother, 479 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 2: I'm sending you back to the producers. Let's try to 480 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 2: restublish the line. So in the east Land, what do 481 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 2: you think? Hi? 482 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 13: Yes, one than Cremens. You know you mentioned to say 483 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,959 Speaker 13: that there's demoralized police officers. I think real citizens are 484 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 13: actually demoralized, right, And I'll tell you why. 485 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 10: I mean, if you look at for the past thirty years. 486 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 13: We've had basically all the criminality that's come on, none 487 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 13: that no one can explain. So in the Western Cape, 488 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 13: you've got the drug problem, You've got the extortion records. Uh, 489 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 13: you know, in the other provinces, the other eighth provinces, 490 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 13: you've got all these other you know, level of organized criminality, 491 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 13: human trafficking, all this crime that just doesn't make any sense, right. 492 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 13: So my thing is that I think we are looking 493 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 13: at the root cause as you know, incorrect way when 494 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 13: I say no, you know, the cops and whatever we 495 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 13: need to look at, say, the political people in this 496 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 13: wholeness are actually the problem. Right, So in the Western 497 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 13: Cape you obviously have the Tea that's been governing for 498 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 13: a substantial family. In the other eight provinces of the ANC, 499 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 13: so these mainstream parties and I think one day you'll 500 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 13: you'll know exleyments. For now we don't know, but one 501 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 13: day we'll know. We'll be wiser and you'll know. How 502 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 13: is it that these mainstream parties are linked to underworld figures? 503 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 13: So for instance, like you know, you had that trial 504 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 13: of that guy and that's it's more that they're in 505 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 13: the Western Cape. It's still ongoing, uh, you know, senior 506 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 13: cups being killed and everything like that. So one day 507 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 13: we will know how these mainstream parties that he in 508 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 13: the ANC are linked to people. Because my thing is 509 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 13: that we can you know, we change the police leadership. 510 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 13: But if the politicians who are still linked to these 511 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 13: underworld figures are problematic and are highly corrupt, whoever comes 512 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 13: and will also be corrupted, although it be threatened or 513 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 13: the family will be threaten. So we almost need to 514 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 13: look at scorching from the political side and getting a 515 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 13: new political people that haven't actually haven't to come in 516 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 13: and scorch everything. And then we must start a fresh 517 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 13: reconstitute a spent all of the structures and reconstitute them, 518 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 13: because clearly you've got entraged people, embedded people with different 519 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 13: interests that are serving criminal curtails the underworld, you know, 520 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 13: syndicate and everything. So you the point where nothing can 521 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 13: be trusted. And in a system like that, when nothing 522 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 13: can be trusted, you actually need to look at studying 523 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 13: it from scratch. 524 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 2: In the east wand thank you Hie money money money, 525 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 2: clairment money, Happy Thursday, Clement. 526 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 14: First of all, I think we need to put the 527 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 14: issue of Masamola into context. One is not ruged to 528 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 14: he summoned, and from what we hear, he's not sumoned 529 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 14: for corruption charges. So as it is we are and 530 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 14: this this we you see from pull Elli Street Jones 531 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 14: and I think Abram Abrahim, you know, because they. 532 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 2: Keep giving us updates. 533 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 14: So we are still in nonetherwiser as to what are 534 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 14: the charges that he has to face. So there's no 535 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 14: rush in suspending him until we know the nature of those. 536 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 9: Charges. 537 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 14: Thanks someone sure. 538 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 15: I Clement, good morning Ben here in Brakpan. I think 539 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 15: we must be so, but I don't think we need 540 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 15: to suspend the National Commissioner as yet. That's number one, 541 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 15: number two. Please, if you can get a legal expect 542 00:34:54,160 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 15: to break down exactly what the National Commissioner is being 543 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 15: charged for, and then we can make a decision. 544 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: Thank you boys, your station, your line both at all 545 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: with clem. 546 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 2: I'm seven eighteen, it's eight minutes before ten o'clock. Back 547 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 2: to your cause actually in Rosebank High Madam. 548 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 9: Now I'm disappointed a country for me, Madam Major Maamo. 549 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 9: President was a heart of our presidentially. Intelligence is ago office, 550 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 9: you're high and all these things that has been happening. 551 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 9: Do you want to tell me this guy didn't know anything? 552 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 9: Thanks giving a simple we are being infiltrated because intelligence 553 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 9: is in an office. What are they doing? What kind 554 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 9: of information at. 555 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 2: Mm hmmm yeah, Ashley, who knows? Hey, thank you for 556 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 2: the call in Rosebank, Arom in Mammilodi. 557 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 11: High Yes agreement. So you see in all the provinces 558 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 11: of South Africa, in the SAPs, there is legal services. 559 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 11: At National Office, there's legal offices. There's a department called 560 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 11: legal services which deals with contract and agreement. In the 561 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 11: Office of the National Commissioner, there is legal services. There 562 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 11: are legal experts in the Office of the National Commissioner. 563 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,320 Speaker 11: I would understand the word raditional. Commissioner is the accounting officer. 564 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 11: He has to he or she must apply his or 565 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 11: her mind. But I feel very sore for the National 566 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 11: Commissioner to be playing for all these things because they 567 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 11: are experts surrounding him to give legalin. 568 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 2: Mmmmmm hmm no got you in Mamlody. 569 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 11: I feel very so for you. 570 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 2: Okay, thank you for your call. More what's up? Tell 571 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:08,760 Speaker 2: how are you? Okay? 572 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 16: This is Walter from Vegistar. 573 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 2: Not for now. 574 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 12: I think. 575 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 16: The guy simular somehow there's something in over like he's 576 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:25,280 Speaker 16: very suspicious because why would he then cancel the contract 577 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 16: after the money is gone. 578 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 7: He should have. 579 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 16: Maybe went to the finance before the money goes to 580 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 16: that company and stop the money. So I don't understand 581 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 16: why would he somehow how I feels somehow maybe connected 582 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 16: to these company is because he had the imple time 583 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 16: to stop that money going too that company, so he 584 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 16: didn't do it. So he let the money go and 585 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 16: then at the same time cancel the contract. So why 586 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 16: didn't you to cancel them the flow of money to 587 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 16: that contract before he can he can consult the contract. 588 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 16: And somehow I feel a well know, he somehow may 589 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 16: be connected because I think that's how you should have 590 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 16: done it. So maybe that's why you feel that this 591 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 16: guy is somehow he's somehow suspicious. Okay, thank you, thank you, Clement. 592 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 17: Money Clement, the whole saga, it's not okay. I do 593 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 17: not understand not just going on, but something's going on. 594 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 17: All of my askings that let Lieutenant Kharanazi be protected 595 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 17: because I don't like the sound of everything. All of 596 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 17: a sudden, Masamoo's got a summon all of a sudden, 597 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 17: and a contract has come to an end. But at 598 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 17: the same time, you know, we don't have a commissioner. 599 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 17: Who's going to be the commissioner? What has happen in 600 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 17: the steps and really nobody should do anything to left 601 00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 17: the Khanazi that's all you're asking for. 602 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,839 Speaker 2: We we just prayed God protect that man. 603 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,479 Speaker 17: He has rebuilt so much, rocks in septs the well. 604 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 2: The question now is has he signed his new contract? 605 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 2: Remember the National Police Commissioner in Parliament, when was it 606 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 2: two weeks ago? He told Parliament he was asked in 607 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 2: the ad hoc committee, has you sent a new contract 608 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 2: to Maseman and he said, yeah, we're still working on it, 609 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,800 Speaker 2: but we've discussed that it's being renewed. Even the Premier 610 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 2: of Cazaren had to send out a statement saying I'm 611 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,879 Speaker 2: in kanas Even the Premier of Case had to send 612 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 2: out a statement and say, what's going on with kanas 613 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 2: is contract? What's going on? Because as the as the 614 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 2: Premier of Cazarin, we want this man to continue the 615 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 2: good work that he's been doing in kaZulu Nata. So 616 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 2: the question now is has he signed that contract? And 617 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 2: if he hasn't signed that contract yet, would he be 618 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 2: one of the people being considered to act without having 619 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,879 Speaker 2: signed a renewal contract. If the decision will be taken 620 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 2: that Macemola be suspended, it's going to be really fascinating 621 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 2: to see how they're going to move on this it's 622 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 2: three minutes before ten.