1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Tat Talk Consumer Talk WhatsApp on seven two five six 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: seven one five six seven. That is the number to 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: use if you'd like to join the conversation around food 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: marketing and nutritional choices and particularly how manufacturers are marketing 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: products designed to be used by children. That is our 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: main focus in Consumer Talk today. For those who are 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: just tuning in, a reminder that Wendy Nola. 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: Is away still. She will be back with us this 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: time next week. 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: So what we're doing is taking the opportunity to take 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: a bit of an in depth look at this issue 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: of how brands are marketing products like baby formula and 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: baby cereals and you know, toddler jars of food, et cetera, 14 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: and whether those strategies are even compliant with the regulations 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: that are in place to protect consumers against misleading marketing 16 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: and to try and help them make better food choices. 17 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: That really is the whole of the matter. What do 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: we do to empower people to make the best possible 19 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: nutritional choices within their circumstances. It's a subject we're going 20 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: to explore with two different researchers from the University of 21 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: the Western Cape who have both been looking into this 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: from slightly different angles. It's a huge pleasure to have 23 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: them both with us by a zoom this afternoon. Aniko 24 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: La Tiff is a dietician who has been doing some 25 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: very interesting research, specifically around the field of baby foods 26 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: and what is happening on the shelves of our supermarkets. 27 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: She is within UWC's Department of Dietetics and Nutrition. And 28 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: then we're also joined by doctor tamer And Frank, who 29 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: has a long history of research in food marketing and 30 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: particularly in the question of what we can do to 31 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: prevent obesity, not only in children, but in adults as well, 32 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: and she is based at the School of Public Health. 33 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: To both of you, thank you so much for your 34 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: time this afternoon, and welcome to the show. 35 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 3: Thanks, it's great to be here. 36 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: Thanksavings, it's a great, great pleasure. Anika, if I may 37 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: start with you, just very recently reading up about your 38 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: research and it's findings, and there are a lot of 39 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 1: red flags that it is raising. 40 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: Can you tell us as a. 41 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: Starting point what you were looking into and what made 42 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: you want to investigate that issue? 43 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 4: Hi, paper, thanks for having me so or brief somewhere 44 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 4: of my research. The study looked at our baby and 45 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 4: toddle foods in South Africa comply with the marketing restrictions 46 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 4: in the regulation or nine nine to one. So we 47 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 4: looked at two hundred and sixty six baby food products 48 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 4: they were sold in cater and supermarkets, analyze that and 49 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 4: found that many still use front to back marketing such 50 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 4: as health claims, catchy terms, expert claims and similar branding 51 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 4: across product ranges which can influence experiences choices. And we 52 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 4: also looked at the nutrition composition and just found that 53 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 4: sixty five percent of follower formulas and all of the 54 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 4: juices that we looked at were high in sugar. And 55 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 4: then overall at these finding slide gaps in compliance of 56 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 4: the regulation and that there is a need for stricter 57 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 4: enforcement to support half fear food environments for young children. 58 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: A Nica. 59 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking back to a long long time 60 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: ago now when my own children were babies and toddlers 61 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: and how easy it is to fall for these strategies. 62 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: And it was actually my children's kindergarten teacher who was 63 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: the first person to really conscientise me around the fact 64 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: that you know, the so called baby friendly yogurt tub 65 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: for example, was laden with extra sugars that weren't actually 66 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: healthy for a child of that age to be consuming 67 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: and made me more aware of reading labels, etc. And 68 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: it's something that had a very profound impact and lasting 69 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: impact on me. And you know that was coming from 70 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: the perspective of somebody with a university education, with with 71 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: choice in where I was shopping and the products that 72 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: I was choosing between, from a very privileged position. And 73 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, I think back now, I think, gosh, if 74 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: I was being hoodwinked to that extent, how much more 75 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: difficult it must be for a parent who has not 76 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: had the benefit of being educated on this topic, on 77 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: listening to interviews on cape talk that have raised their 78 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: awareness of hidden sugars and fats, et cetera, that they 79 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: need to think about who also won't have a lot 80 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: of choice in terms of the availability of product spread 81 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: that is on the shelf in their local supermarket, if 82 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: indeed they have access to a supermarket. There are so 83 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: so many factors playing in here that complicate this issue. 84 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: But a big part part that sticks out for me 85 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: from what you've said there is that a lot of 86 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: what you saw was not compliant with the legislation we 87 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: already have in place. Did that surprise you, Anka, or 88 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: did you suspect going in that you were going to 89 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: find that kind of outcome? 90 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 4: Thank you for edyflick shit. Some of them did surprise me, 91 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 4: but it was also not really surprising when you look 92 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 4: at the juices and the fil our formulas. Having a 93 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 4: dietetic background and doing the work that I do, we've 94 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 4: been exposed to what are in these products, and I 95 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 4: wasn't really a surprise. But also they were good findings. 96 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 4: I mean, there weren't any non sugen sweetness in the products, 97 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 4: just a good thing. But yeah, I think that manufacturers 98 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 4: are trying to fund dooples in the regulation that they 99 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 4: can take advantage of. And yeah, I think that there 100 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 4: needs to be stick the munishing and enforcement of the 101 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 4: regulation so that we can have a better food environment 102 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 4: for our children future children. 103 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: You mentioned endorsement and sort of do you mean by 104 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: that celebrity endorsement, medical endorsement. Do you want to tell 105 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: us a little bit more about that particular aspect of 106 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: what you noticed. 107 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 4: So that findingly, it wasn't a significant finding, But they 108 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 4: would say I can't mention the brands because that is 109 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 4: an agreement with the manufacturers at the time. But I 110 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 4: would say, like, we are the nutition experts of the 111 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 4: specific brand, and yeah, not really medical. But they would 112 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 4: say that this brand, there are nutition experts of these products, 113 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 4: and yeah, I think that's misleading because I mean, we 114 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 4: are statistians, we are the nutrition experts stay and they're 115 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 4: just manufacturing these products for a profit. 116 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: So I think, kah, okay, let's talk a little bit 117 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: specifically about formula. I mean, you've mentioned juices and follow 118 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: up milks, et cetera. But when you look specifically at 119 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: infant formula and nika, what observations would you like to 120 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: share with our audience about what you found there? Because 121 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: this is a particularly thawny issue for a number of 122 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: different reasons. Do you want to start by telling us 123 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: what you observed specifically around infant formula? 124 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 4: So what I observed that infant formula there wasn't really 125 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 4: that much marketing that is detective. But there is a 126 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 4: term called cross promotion. So what manufacturers do is that 127 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 4: they use they advertise wine product and they make it 128 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 4: look similar with logos, brand, mascot designs, color scheme, and 129 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 4: they so people connected to they think it looks similar. 130 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 4: The coloring and the design is similar, and it may same. 131 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 4: It makes people recognizing test the brand, and it's also 132 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 4: called brand stitching, so it makes them. It could also 133 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 4: cause confusion because it looks similar. Maybe a mother doesn't 134 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 4: can't read, or maybe it's just the only difference. May 135 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 4: we found is the numbering of these the infant formula 136 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 4: FILA formula and then the young child formulas from one 137 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 4: to three years old. That I think that's what companies 138 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: are doing. But in terms of the nutrition composition, there 139 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 4: wasn't anything alarming from the infant formula point of view, 140 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 4: but for the filer formulas, we did notice that they 141 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 4: were I there I sugar content. 142 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: Okay, now let's talk a little bit more about, uh, 143 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: what is particularly problematic about the brands that aren't following 144 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: the rules and the fact that you are, for example, 145 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: flagging products that are being marketed specifically as being for 146 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: very young children. And I'm thinking here for example, of 147 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: infant cereals and the sort of the puade jar foods 148 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: that are introduced when a baby is starting to be 149 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: weaned onto solids. One of the things that you mentioned 150 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: in the writeup of your research, I noticed was was 151 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: insufficient information emphasizing the appropriate age at which to introduce 152 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: those products, and you know that age. It's not a 153 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: cast in stone that a child must start them at 154 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: month X or month y, but anica generally the guidelines 155 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: are that we prefer to see mother's breastfeeding exclusively, you know, 156 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: for as long as possible, but certainly through those those 157 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: initial months. 158 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,119 Speaker 2: It's what is encouraged. 159 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: How concerned are you about the fact that, as you've mentioned, 160 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: parents who might not necessarily be literate, who might be 161 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: relying on the pictures on the product's packaging, or you know, 162 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: even somebody who is is not bothering necessarily to read 163 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: in fine print what's in the product. 164 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 2: Is that a concern from you? 165 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: For you that parents might be unwittingly introducing that kind 166 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: of product earlier than it's recommended for. 167 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 4: Yes, I think it is quite concerning, because I mean, 168 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 4: when you go to the shops, you're not really worried 169 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 4: about reading labels. It's just a quick in and out 170 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 4: or all these colors and words like like there's the 171 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 4: article said reduced sweetness contains iron organic that always claims 172 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 4: attract parents, and even I can say that from dietician's 173 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 4: point of view. I'm also not guilty, but like a 174 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 4: victim of all the marketing and the colors attractive colors. 175 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 4: So I think it really is concerning because people don't 176 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 4: really take the time to read these labels, and they 177 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 4: don't really know what products are high in sugar, what 178 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 4: the cutoffs are like, what what constitutes a product to 179 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 4: be high in sugar. And I think there should be 180 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 4: more education about reading label and you're making the public 181 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 4: more aware of what the dangers are of I who 182 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 4: got in take, especially in infants and young children. 183 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: Do you want to tell us a little bit more 184 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: for some Yes, Taran, I was about to bring you in, 185 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: But if you want to jump in there, go for it. Yeah. 186 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: Could I jump in? 187 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 3: I just thought I would add to Anika's answer. I 188 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 3: had a master's student, Nis Sickler's and Gharani who did 189 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 3: some research in the rural Eastern Cape looking at what 190 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 3: infants are fed, and her study was informed she was 191 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: working as a dietitian in the area at the time 192 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 3: and she was seeing a lot of very young babies 193 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 3: being fed a mixture of formula, milk and infant cereal, 194 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 3: which was concerning to her, so she decided to do 195 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: her master's research on that by interviewing both healthcare professionals 196 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: as well as mothers in the community. And this was, 197 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 3: you know, quite rural cape and it was really alarming 198 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 3: to find just how frequently these cereal products were being introduced, 199 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 3: very very early, sometimes from when the baby was a 200 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 3: couple of weeks old, as part of the diet. And 201 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 3: the reasons that mothers gave included that the form you know, 202 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 3: if they were formula feeding, it was too expensive for 203 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: them to formula feed, and so by adding the cereal 204 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: it reduced the cost. It also filled up the stomach, 205 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 3: so it kept the baby from crying and so on, 206 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 3: and it had just become such an ingrained normal practice 207 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 3: within the community. And this is really really concerning because 208 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 3: we know, from a best practice point of view, we 209 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 3: would want to promote exclusive breastfeeding for the first six months, 210 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 3: but it seems that these products are really marketed in 211 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 3: a way that they're being placed as a suitable alternative 212 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 3: to breastfeeding, which would be free and very convenient and 213 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 3: nutritionally complete, and as a result, it is resulting in malnutrition. 214 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 3: So it's not just in our urban areas that we're 215 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 3: seeing this, but even in the parts of the country. 216 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 2: It's fascinating. 217 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm listening to this and again I'm thinking 218 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: back to my own experience and as a mom who 219 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: struggled with breastfeeding with one child and had to introduce 220 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: some formula earlier than I would have wanted to. And 221 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: you know, I had access to information, to advice, I 222 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: had access to a baby clinic that I could get 223 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: to easily with somebody who talked me through. 224 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 2: You know why we delay as long. 225 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: As we do, and if you must introduce it, this 226 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: is how we're going to do it, and always emphasizing 227 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: the message around the importance of breastfeeding. So it's very 228 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: interesting to hear that that that comment from a rural 229 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: perspective and and Tamern, I mean, do we do we 230 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: have stats on on breastfeeding in South Africa and exclusive 231 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: breastfeeding and and how how we do Bearing in mind 232 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: as I always do when we have this conversation that 233 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm aware that some women do struggle and that there 234 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: are some babies for whom other options have got to 235 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: be found, and we understand that, but we also know 236 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: that the message around exclusive breastfeeding wherever possible is the 237 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: one that is promoted Tamarn, what do we know about 238 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: how that message plays out and is received and and 239 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: and what happens in practice in South Africa. 240 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, our breastfeeding rates are very exclusive breastfeeding rates are 241 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 3: very low. I really think it's around thirty three percent 242 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 3: if I recall correctly, I could bear on Anika. I 243 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 3: don't know if you've got a more correct. 244 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 4: Stat I just did up now it's twenty twenty two. Yeah, 245 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 4: that's the latest. Stare so very. 246 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 3: Very low exclusive breastfeeding rates. It's you know, particularly that 247 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 3: continued breastfeeding and keeping an exclusive breastfeeding that that seems 248 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 3: to be very challenging. And so it's really really concerning. 249 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 5: And that is why it's so crucial that there is 250 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 5: protection of mothers to support an enabling environment to promote breastfeeding. 251 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 3: And that is in part what the R nine to 252 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: nine one regulation that Aniko referred to a little earlier 253 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 3: is doing. The purpose of that regulation is to try 254 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 3: and have measures in place that protect and promote and 255 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 3: support exclusive breastfeeding. And so that includes things like ensuring 256 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 3: that any maybe foods that are sold state on them 257 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 3: that they're not suitable before six months of age, and 258 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 3: I think unique fund from a study that that was 259 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: compliant for most of the products. And then also certain 260 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 3: things around how these products are allowed to be marketed, 261 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 3: so you're not actually allowed to have any the companies 262 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 3: that sell these products aren't allowed to directly target mothers 263 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 3: and promote their products to mothers. And in fact, there 264 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 3: was a case just a couple of years ago with 265 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 3: NESLE that I know some colleagues have just published a 266 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 3: journal article on it, but where they to try and 267 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 3: get around the regulation set up a webinar to interact 268 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 3: with mothers and then used products that they target to 269 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 3: children older than three years. Because this regulation is for 270 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 3: infants and young children. Today sort of looked at, well, 271 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 3: how could they get around it and then you know, 272 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 3: try to use that. But the way that they'd framed it, 273 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: in the words that they were used, it was very 274 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 3: clear that they were actually offering infant and young child 275 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 3: feeding advice. And as a result of or society efforts 276 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 3: in the country and because of the regulation in that case, 277 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 3: they actually withdrew the webinar and it never actually happened. 278 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 3: So these regulations are really important and they are doing 279 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 3: some of the work, but there's certainly a lot more 280 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 3: that needs to be done. The gray areas are problematic, 281 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 3: particularly around things like health and nutrition claims. Where As 282 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 3: you say, as a mom, it's really difficult if you 283 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 3: get into a shop you wanted to shoes a product 284 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 3: that is best for your baby, so you're looking perhaps 285 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 3: for where it says high in vitamins or a source 286 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 3: of fiber on the product. 287 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 6: And we find another study that we did together with 288 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 6: UNISEEF that also looked at infant and young child products 289 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 6: in South Africa and elsewhere in Africa as well that 290 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 6: these health and nutrition claims are very common on products 291 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 6: that are old to babies. 292 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: Here we're going to pause there to take a quick 293 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: break with the Eyewitness News team, but please Anika and 294 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: Tamarin stay with us, and after we've heard from thee 295 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: this news team will continue the conversation around marketing of 296 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: food and particularly there's interest in the marketing of foods 297 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: for infants and young children, and we might look more 298 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: broadly as well as to how these regulations impact marketing 299 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: Beyond that Cave. 300 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 2: Talk Consumer Talk call. 301 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: Now on O two one five six seven, we continue 302 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: the conversation with two academics from the University of the 303 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: Western Cape looking at the issue of marketing practices, particularly 304 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: around baby formula, baby food, food directed at infants and 305 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: toddler's But I suspect we're also going to broaden things 306 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: a little bit in the second half hour of conversation. 307 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 2: For those who just tuning in. 308 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: Our guests joining us via zoom Ankoa Latif, who's a 309 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: dietician who has just released some very interesting research out 310 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: of the Department of Dietetics and Nutrition, looking specifically at 311 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: more than two hundred and sixty different baby foods and 312 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: how they were being marketed and the labeling on the products, 313 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: et cetera on our supermarket shelves. As we speak, also 314 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: with us doctor tamer and Frank somebody who has spent 315 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: a lot of time researching in the field and is 316 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: also now an academic at the School of Public Health 317 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: at UWC a particular passion for the subject of obesity prevention, 318 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,239 Speaker 1: and Tamarin, let me bring you back in here and 319 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: perhaps broaden the conversation a little bit, because we've been 320 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: very focused on the info formula and the baby products, etc. 321 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: But of course this is reflective of a much broader 322 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: issue in society around access to decent nutrition that is 323 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: affordable to the average South African, isn't it? 324 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: Am I right in saying that. 325 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 3: Absolutely? 326 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: Yes? 327 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: Do you want to elaborate a little bit on what 328 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: your field researchers as has shown you? 329 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 3: Sure? 330 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 4: So. 331 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 3: One of the things that I'm particularly concerned about is 332 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 3: the amount of ultra processed products that are available in 333 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 3: our food supply. So ultra processed products might not be 334 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 3: a term that everybody is familiar with, but what these 335 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 3: refer to our products that have been manufactured. They're not 336 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 3: products that you can make at home in your kitchen. 337 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 3: Processing has been around since the beginning of time, and 338 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 3: so processing would be things to prolong the shelf life. 339 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,959 Speaker 3: So it may be adding a little bit of sugar 340 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 3: or salt to make some preserves that go onto the store, 341 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 3: onto your shelves that your granny perhaps did with you 342 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 3: when you were a child, that's been around forever. Those 343 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 3: are not the products that we're concerned about. But ultra 344 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 3: process products are products that have undergone industrial processes in factories. 345 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 3: They're not products that you can make at home. And 346 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 3: when you look at the ingredient list on the back, 347 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 3: there are all sorts of words that are completely unfamiliar 348 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 3: to you. They've also got lots of additives, flavorants, colorants, 349 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 3: non nutritive sweetness, and we find that these products are 350 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 3: typically very high in either sugar, salt, or saturated fat, 351 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 3: and they have been very very carefully designed to be 352 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 3: the type of products that make you want to eat 353 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 3: more and more of them. You know that packet of 354 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 3: crisps that you put your hand into and you find 355 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 3: yourself putting your hand to the packet again and again 356 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 3: and again. And so those are the products, ultra process 357 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 3: products that we're quite concerned about. And we find that 358 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 3: in the South African food supply these products have become 359 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 3: more and more common and more and more every day. 360 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 3: We did a study where we looked at packaged foods 361 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 3: in South African supermarkets and amongst the packaged foods, and 362 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 3: we looked at about six five hundred products amongst so 363 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 3: this excludes the fresh produce, but the packaged foods, three 364 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 3: quarters of the products are ultra processed. It leaves very 365 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 3: little choice to choose products that aren't ultra processed. And 366 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 3: we also did a study where we looked at dietary 367 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 3: intake of low income South African So we included two thousand, 368 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 3: five hundred participants from Lunger and Kaya Licha and then 369 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 3: also Mount Frere as a rural population in the Eastern Cape, 370 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 3: and we found that about forty percent of the daily 371 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 3: dietary consumption, even amongst low income South Africans is ultra processed. 372 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 3: So this isn't just an issue for high income individuals. 373 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 3: This is an issue across the board in South Africa 374 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: and the proliferation and increase of these ultra processed foods 375 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 3: in our food supply has gone hand in hand with 376 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 3: an increase in our rates of obesity amongst both adults 377 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 3: and children, and more and more noncommunicable diseases diseases like diabetes, 378 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 3: heart disease, certain cancers as well. So there are very 379 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 3: clear health risks linked to the consumption of these ultra 380 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: process products and this is something that we really need 381 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 3: to be looking at. So one of the things that 382 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 3: is being done currently is a consideration for warning labels 383 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 3: on products that are unhealthy. So the Department of Health 384 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 3: published a draft regulation two years ago. Now it hasn't 385 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 3: yet been finalized, but I believe they are currently working. 386 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 3: They've made some comments recently that they are planning to 387 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 3: finalize that regulation in the next couple of months, so 388 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 3: I'm very hopeful that that may happen. But what it 389 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 3: does is that it mandates that a product that is unhealthy, 390 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 3: so it looks at levels of sugar, saturated fat, and 391 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 3: salt and also non sugar sweetness, and products that are 392 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 3: excessive in those nutrients have to carry a warning label. 393 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 3: It's going to be a very clear warning label on 394 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 3: the front of the pack, and so it won't require 395 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 3: someone to turn around the package to try and figure 396 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 3: out what the ingredients are at the back of the 397 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 3: package or how much is too much. It's going to 398 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 3: be very easy to see, very clearly on the package. 399 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 3: And the fantastic thing is that under the draft regulation, 400 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 3: once a product carries a warning label, it won't be 401 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 3: allowed to be marketed to children. So that will mean 402 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 3: that these unhealthy products won't be marketed, and a product 403 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 3: with a warning label also won't be permitted to carry 404 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 3: any health or nutrition games, so there won't be this 405 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 3: confusion of perhaps seeing a product that says high in sugar, 406 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 3: but then also seeing a message that says contains vitamins 407 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 3: and minerals. So it will help to make it quite 408 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 3: easy for consumers to identify the unhealthy products. So this 409 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 3: is something that I'm quite hopeful for in the near 410 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 3: future that I think could be potentially quite beneficial to 411 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 3: consumers in South Africa. 412 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: Darin, I mean, that's incredibly encouraging news. But my question is, 413 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,479 Speaker 1: even if all of those products have large, bright orange 414 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: warning labels on them, what about the low income consumer 415 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: who doesn't have a lot of choice and who is 416 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: facing perhaps limited availability of products spread in the shop 417 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: that they access to do their household shopping in, etc. 418 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 2: Is it really a choice at all. 419 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: Can we talk a little bit about affordability of these products, 420 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: because you very clearly telling us that they constitute. 421 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 2: A large percentage of the products on the shelf. 422 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: The added complication is that often they are some of 423 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: the cheapest products on the shelf as well, and for 424 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: a family who's on a limited budget, that's a big concern. 425 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And so you know, I think one needs to 426 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 3: always keep in mind there's never going to be one 427 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 3: regulation or policy that's going to solve everything. This is 428 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 3: addressing part of the problem. To me personally, I'm much 429 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 3: more excited about the marketing restrictions that will go alongside 430 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 3: than the warning level. The warning level will be fantastic 431 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 3: to inform consumers. But as you rightly say, when affordability 432 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 3: is the driving force behind what is chosen, it may 433 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 3: not restrict people from choosing it because they simply it's 434 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 3: not a choice. It's driven by what is affordable. But 435 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 3: it will certainly help that these products can't just be 436 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 3: marketed all over the show, which we know is something 437 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 3: that often drives what ends up being chosen. But alongside that, 438 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 3: I think it's crucial that other policies need to also 439 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 3: be implemented to look at how do we make healthy 440 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 3: foods more affordable and so there. You know, we have 441 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 3: a sugary beverage tax in South Africa called the Health 442 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 3: Promotion Levee which if products have more than four grams 443 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 3: of sugar per hundred miles sugary beverages they get taxed 444 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 3: and that is called very deliberately the Health Promotion levy. Ideally, 445 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 3: the money that is being raised, you know, the revenue 446 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 3: generated through that tax should be pushed back into health 447 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 3: promotion activities. It's not currently being done, and there could 448 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 3: be considerations for expanding it. For instance, Columbia has just 449 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 3: recently introduced attacks on foods that are ultra processed as well, 450 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 3: And if something like that was done, the important thing 451 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 3: would really be how does that money then get used 452 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 3: to subsidize the cost of healthy foods for the most 453 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 3: vulnerable in the population. So, you know, I think those 454 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 3: are the areas where we need to be looking at. 455 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 3: What more can be done to promote healthy foods our 456 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 3: school National School Nutrition program, for instance, could we maybe 457 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 3: look at how food is being purchased for that program 458 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 3: and purchase rather from small local farmers to stimulate the 459 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 3: local economy, but in turn ensure that there's them fresh 460 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 3: produce being supplied to the school children who are consuming 461 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 3: foods in the National School Nutrition Program. So these are 462 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 3: all the types of things that we definitely need to 463 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 3: be doing alongside the warning lefts. The warning labels are 464 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 3: an important component, but a small component of everything that 465 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 3: needs to be happening. 466 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: Just ask any dedicated smoker and they'll tell you the 467 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: same thing. Tamberna mean, yeah, interesting, somebody's commenting on email 468 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: to me that the marketing is not so much at 469 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: you know, is the marketing aimed at the children themselves 470 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: or at the parent who is in control of the 471 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: purchasing decisions and is that something that should be considered. 472 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: I mean it's a bit of both. Right, You're sticking 473 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: Spider Man or Bobbie on the side of the yogurt 474 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: because you want the toddler in the trolley to say, Mommy, 475 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: I want that one. But at the end of the day, 476 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: it is mommy who's in charge of the shopping budget, 477 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: or daddy or whoever is doing the shop that makes 478 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: the final decision. Do you think enough is being done 479 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: to take away the temptation to the child who doesn't 480 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: have the capacity to understand the deeper issues at play. 481 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 3: Now, So in South Africa, because our constitution acknowledges that 482 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 3: a child is eighteen years and younger, that is what 483 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 3: the marketing regulations will cover. So it covers quite a 484 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 3: broad range of the types of marketing. You know, we 485 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 3: get the direct marketing, which is aimed specifically at the 486 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 3: person that's being marketed targeted, but then the indirect way, 487 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 3: perhaps you're seeing health claims and the parent instead of 488 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 3: the child. So what if this regulation comes into I 489 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 3: want to say, once it comes into effect, let me 490 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 3: be fuzzitive about this. So what it will do is 491 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 3: a product with a warning label won't be allowed to 492 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 3: have marketing on the package, which means that if there 493 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 3: is like you've just mentioned the Barbie on the sugar 494 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 3: sweet and beverage, that won't be allowed to be on 495 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 3: the package. So the child won't be seeing that, you know, 496 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 3: to try and pressurize when they're walking down the aisle 497 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 3: and the store to say, oh, that's what they want. 498 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 3: That will be taken away. But also other forms of 499 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 3: marketing that are broader will also be covered. And that's 500 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 3: where things like you know, the health or nutrition claims 501 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 3: that we commonly see on these products that are more 502 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 3: targeted towards the parent who is doing the shopping, those 503 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 3: will also not be present on the products with the 504 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 3: warning labels. So it is important that we look at 505 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 3: at a broad variety. Now just talking about on the package, 506 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 3: but of course we know the marketing is happening in 507 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 3: other spaces as well, at television and social media and 508 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 3: so on, and these are all components that need to 509 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 3: be looked at and considered how we restrict marketing in 510 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 3: these areas. 511 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: And Paul asking an interesting question on our WhatsApp line, 512 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: what about the example of cerial companies who provide cereals 513 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: as breakfast to poor children in feeding schemes, would that 514 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: be considered marketing? Would that be targeted if those cereals 515 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: are sugar heavy for example, is that something that is 516 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: going to be impacted by the draft regulations? 517 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 3: Yeah? So, you know, I think that that always creates 518 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 3: complexity that we have to consider because we need to 519 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 3: acknowledge the importance of children getting food to eat. And 520 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 3: if there's you know, in a community that can't afford food, 521 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 3: if something is being offered, of. 522 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: Course something is better than nothing. 523 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 3: Having food is yeah, but we also do need to 524 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 3: consider the nutritional quality of what is being provided. You know, 525 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 3: food security is not just about having food to eat, 526 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 3: but it's about having food of an appropriate quality that 527 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 3: meets the nutritional requirements. And so that's where, in my opinion, 528 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 3: we should be creating environments where if companies do want 529 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 3: to donte products, these companies usually also have whole oats 530 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 3: that they are producing that is a healthy breakfast cereal 531 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 3: to be consumed, So that should rather be what is 532 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 3: being provided. And then I think we also need to 533 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 3: think about how these companies are using these events to 534 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 3: market themselves and markets and healthy products. I often use 535 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 3: the example if I'm giving up presentation of Coca Cola 536 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 3: having initiative to look at water scarcity in Africa and 537 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 3: how to provide water in areas that have high draught risk. 538 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 3: But then, and that would be what we would consider 539 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 3: a corporate social responsibility initiative. You know, it shows caring 540 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 3: for the community and so on. But then if you 541 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 3: go and look at their website to see how much 542 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 3: water it takes to make a liter of sugary beverage, 543 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 3: it takes about two liters of water to make one 544 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 3: liter of sugary beverage. That's by their stats. Other reports, 545 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 3: when you take the whole supply chain from growing the 546 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 3: sugar cane to when it gets to a beverage is 547 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 3: much much, much, much much higher than that. But you know, 548 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 3: if there really was a concern about water scarcity, I 549 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 3: think there would perhaps be other ways that one would 550 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 3: consider really tackling it if that was really the true concern. 551 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 3: So we do need to be careful about how these 552 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 3: companies are actually using these types of events to market 553 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 3: their unhealthy products. Yeah, and it's a complex situation. 554 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: Very complex one. And you know, as you've made very 555 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:30,439 Speaker 1: clear this afternoon. It's a systemic issue that needs systemic solutions, Tamer, 556 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: and it's been absolutely fascinating listening to your insights into 557 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: some of the problem areas and gray areas that are 558 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: currently allowing for wiggle room that hopefully these draft regulations 559 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: will start addressing. Thank you very very much for joining 560 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: us this afternoon, doctor Tamer and Frank in the School 561 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: of Public Health at the University of the Western Cape. 562 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 2: It's been great having you with us. 563 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 3: Thanks so much, it's been lovely chatting. 564 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 2: Thank you. 565 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: Now, if I'm i going to put the last question 566 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: back to where we started, Anika Latif, the dietician who's 567 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: research into the baby food marketing space, started this conversation, Anika, 568 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: I mean you've also you've shared some very interesting and 569 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 1: quite concerning insights around how much wiggle room is still 570 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: being exploited and the fact that you know a lot 571 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: of these practices are happening even though we already have 572 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: regulations that should be targeting them. If there was one 573 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 1: message to a parent listening today, perhaps a new parent, 574 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: first time parent, who is about to navigate the space 575 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: of shopping in the supermarket aisle where they're going to 576 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,399 Speaker 1: be bombarded with marketing messages around formula and complimentary foods, etc. 577 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 2: What would you like them to be more aware of. 578 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 4: Thanks for that question, Papa. I think it's very important 579 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 4: to read labels carefully, even though they might not be time. 580 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 4: But I think we need to put in the extra 581 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,720 Speaker 4: if it to give out all in the best nugition. 582 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 4: So I think that is one important thing. And then 583 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 4: also do when we make food, we can maybe just 584 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 4: make an extra lot of vegetables for in the case 585 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 4: of your baby starting solid foods. So I think it's 586 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 4: more convenience where people are going for the easier option. 587 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 4: But I think if you really want to give your 588 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 4: baby the best, try and put the extra effort in 589 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 4: and make home prepared meals. That's what these marketing of 590 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,720 Speaker 4: these CEOs and these perios are doing at their service 591 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 4: to or like undermining what actual real food can do 592 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,760 Speaker 4: for these infants and your children. 593 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: And then, yeah, Anica, thank you so much incredibly practical 594 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: advice and helpful, and thank you for conducting the research 595 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,720 Speaker 1: which has put the spotlight on the issue and helping 596 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: to raise awareness of the things we need to look 597 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: out for. It's been a huge pleasure having you with 598 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 1: us as well. 599 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Thank you for having us. 600 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 2: It's a huge pleasure. Nico Lactive for speaking. 601 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: They're a dietician conducting research within UWC's Department of die 602 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: Anthetics and Nutrition.