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Speaker 1: This is Capital Ktalk, so I found the story on

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Speaker 1: the conversation. It was posted there, but it's also made

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Speaker 1: its way onto a lot of different other platforms. Last

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Speaker 1: night I indulged in a couple of episodes of Recharging Hope.

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Speaker 1: That is a seven episode sort of docky series that

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Speaker 1: documents the story we're about to handle right now now.

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Speaker 1: Across much of Africa, motorcycles are not a luxury. They're

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Speaker 1: an absolute lifeline. They move people, goods and services, often

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Speaker 1: filling the gap left by limited public transport systems and

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Speaker 1: a lot of other issues that you tend to find

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Speaker 1: up in the African continent, from daily commute to deliveries.

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Speaker 1: There are twenty seven million motorbikes ish in Sub Saharan Africa,

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Speaker 1: of which like zero point one percent of them are electric,

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Speaker 1: and that's where a growing body of research is starting

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Speaker 1: to challenge the status quo. A team from Stalinbush University

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Speaker 1: has been exploring whether Africa can build and sustain its

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Speaker 1: own electric mobility future, and in twenty twenty four they

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Speaker 1: undertook a sixth thousand kilometer journey from Kenya to South

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Speaker 1: Africa on a locally manufactured electric motorcycle. More so powered

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Speaker 1: entirely by solar energy and battery storage. What they also

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Speaker 1: did was document the entire process, and that little Docky

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Speaker 1: series is available on YouTube. It's an incredibly interesting story.

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Speaker 1: And here to tell me more is researcher and engineer

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Speaker 1: and part of the team that did this amazing undertaking,

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Speaker 1: doctor Stefan Lacock. Good morning, Doc.

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Speaker 2: Good morning many thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: What a mouthful that was, but I had to kind

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Speaker 1: of try to give context here. This was really incredible

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to play a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: trailer that for this Docky series. But before we get

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Speaker 1: to the trailer, I want to talk to you first.

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Speaker 1: Where did the study start in terms of addressing the

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Speaker 1: issue of electric motorcycles or seeing that there was an

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Speaker 1: issue to be sold.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, thank you. I mean it started a while ago,

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Speaker 2: about six years ago. We do a lot of research

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Speaker 2: work on electric minivace tacts, specifically you know in South Africa,

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Speaker 2: as over three hundred thousand of them, and we have

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Speaker 2: identified it as a sector to look at when it

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Speaker 2: comes to the transition towards electric mobility, and we were

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Speaker 2: you know, displaying some of the work we were doing

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Speaker 2: in Kenya and when we got there, we got invited

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Speaker 2: to this manufacturing facility and we saw, you know, a

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Speaker 2: facility that was able to build thirty thousand electric motorcycles

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Speaker 2: per year. And East Africa is far it in terms

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Speaker 2: of electric mobility than the rest of Africa, and I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of questions came from that. So we

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Speaker 2: started to build a research relationship, started looking at local

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Speaker 2: manufacturing supplies and change across Africa in terms of electric mobility.

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Speaker 2: And before you knew it, you know, we were trying

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Speaker 2: to get electric motorcycle into South Africa from Kenya, you know,

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Speaker 2: African made bike, and we just struggled it. It didn't

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Speaker 2: get there. And as also stated in episode one, you know,

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Speaker 2: me and my professor, we were sitting in a whimpy

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Speaker 2: and it basically pigged me that there has to be

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Speaker 2: a way. And I told them while there is this one,

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Speaker 2: you know, crazy idea, and to drive it down and

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Speaker 2: we started laughing at each other. And before you knew it,

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Speaker 2: you know, we were on our way to Kenya to

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Speaker 2: fetch a motorcycle and start driving it down across six

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Speaker 2: countries and.

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Speaker 1: You ran into a lot of uh, well yeah, you

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Speaker 1: ran into a lot of trouble. You ran into a

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Speaker 1: lot of issues, but you also had a lot of

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Speaker 1: success on your way down. From our understanding, you had

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Speaker 1: issues at various border posts, not to mention mechanical trouble

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Speaker 1: that you had to solve from time to time. I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to to what happened that some of

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Speaker 1: the borders, because a large part of your research or

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Speaker 1: a large finding of your research, is that there needs

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Speaker 1: to be policy change to support this sort of cooperation

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Speaker 1: to make these things reality.

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Speaker 2: I think we should we should not understand the border

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Speaker 2: situations you unbord and also on Fixwitter before we left

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Speaker 2: on the journey, he told us that the moment we

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Speaker 2: leave South Africa, we got to find the most rneus

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Speaker 2: people we have met in our lives. And I can

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Speaker 2: definitely tasteify of that. Really, So it's not necessarily that

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Speaker 2: the people that are difficult or you know that you

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Speaker 2: struggle with it. It's mostly the governmental institutions that's positioned

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Speaker 2: in key areas and in our border posters of a

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Speaker 2: reflection of that. But is certain border posts, I mean

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Speaker 2: it's an absolute nightmare. You know, you get there, the

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Speaker 2: struct crows, you know, as long as five kilometers. You

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Speaker 2: have to navigate the system that sadly is corrupt and

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Speaker 2: you have to work through it, you know, and we

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Speaker 2: have some expensive equipment and et cetera, et cetera were us.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of issues in that, and I

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Speaker 2: think it's you know, it's the same reflection when it

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Speaker 2: comes to policy sometimes and regulations. You know, we we

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Speaker 2: have certain systems in Africa in place that creates, you know,

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Speaker 2: a big struggle or heard or in order to get

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Speaker 2: new technology on the road that can benefit a lot

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Speaker 2: of people's life. And I think in South Africa, for example,

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Speaker 2: you know, just to get an African made motorcycle regulated

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Speaker 2: in our country is far more difficult than bringing one

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Speaker 2: from overseas. And I think that was showcased through the

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Speaker 2: border post situations and something that we're really focusing on

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Speaker 2: and trying to change in our country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so what we do need to see is

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Speaker 1: a support from government, a support in policy that make

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Speaker 1: these things at a very slightly easier or more viable

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Speaker 1: to do. Is what I'm hearing you say. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about viability in terms of scalability. Viability and

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Speaker 1: scalability was you finding in the end that we could

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Speaker 1: and should be seeing thousands, if not millions of electric

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Speaker 1: motorcycles on the African continent. Do we have the manufacturing

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Speaker 1: capacity to do that.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's quite ironic. I think East Africa doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: have the manufacturing capacity that we have here in South Africa. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they have thousands and thousands upon our electric motorcycles in

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Speaker 2: the country. I think the biggest company as a fleet

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Speaker 2: of around fifteen thousand electric motorcycles across Kenya, Granda and Rwanda. Roam.

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Speaker 2: The bike that we drove down as over five thousand

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Speaker 2: motorcycles in Kenya, So it gives your perspective what they've

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Speaker 2: been able to do in the past three years. And

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Speaker 2: you know they're looking top that up close to fifty

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Speaker 2: thousand motorcycles at the inn of this year and that

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Speaker 2: will then double up as we continue into twenty thirties.

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Speaker 2: Whereas in the South Africa perspective, you know, before we

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Speaker 2: even speak about electric motorcycles, we first have to ask

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Speaker 2: the question which vehicle is suitable for our country. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's not necessarily a motorcycle culture in South Africa and

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Speaker 2: the rest of subs are in Africa, and that's also

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Speaker 2: something that needs to be cultivated. But it's all the vehicles.

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Speaker 2: I think it's all the transportation vehicles from Taxis muss

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Speaker 2: across the full ecosystem that we need to look at

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Speaker 2: and identify how we can do it. So, yes, I

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Speaker 2: do see there is the future. We've proved that it

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Speaker 2: is viable East Africa. It's proving that it's viable in

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Speaker 2: South Africa. We have the manufacturing capabilities. Even from our

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Speaker 2: operational point of view, we have not seen the uptake

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Speaker 2: that we've expected, but we do see that changing quite soon.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha, gotcha? Now, what I also saw in the docky

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Speaker 1: yesterday was the running of solar power. And forgive me

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Speaker 1: if I'm incorrect and how I saw this happen. But

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Speaker 1: you were, you were with the motorcycle driving through Africa.

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Speaker 1: You broad with our whole solar system that you're not

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Speaker 1: solar system. But you know what I mean by that's

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Speaker 1: where that you could then set up sort of it

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Speaker 1: was what is the word I'm looking for? It was moveable.

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Speaker 1: You just set up the solar panels in the middle

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Speaker 1: of one of the days that you were driving through

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Speaker 1: and then packed them up and took them with you again.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of work that we do have

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Speaker 2: the research lab and a lot of talk that we

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Speaker 2: are talking is that this can be done with renewable energy.

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Speaker 2: And so you know, in a case with our journey,

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Speaker 2: there is not a solar field, you know, across the

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Speaker 2: entire Africa, so we had to you know, throw it

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Speaker 2: into a bucky and drive it along. But what we

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Speaker 2: try to showcase is to prove that if the infrastructure

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Speaker 2: is in place, if the they the connection to renewable

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Speaker 2: sources is there, then you are actually able to travel

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Speaker 2: large amount of distance worth that power. And what we

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Speaker 2: did is, I mean every morning we woke up at

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Speaker 2: around full fifty, I looked at a map, draw a

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Speaker 2: circle of two hundred and fifty kilometers, and you send

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Speaker 2: out the solar vehicle and then you stop in a

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Speaker 2: random riverbed or a village, or next to the road,

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Speaker 2: or into band and parking lots of wherever you can get,

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Speaker 2: sometimes in the middle of a soccer field, and you

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Speaker 2: put up a solar plant about thin solar panels, and

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Speaker 2: then you start charging the depleted batteries and the motorcycle

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Speaker 2: catches up. We switched the battery, so we have that

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Speaker 2: swapping element as well that there is the energy on

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Speaker 2: demond and then the motorcycle continues while the solar team

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Speaker 2: finishes of the rest of the batteries. So I think

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Speaker 2: it just show goes one of the models that you

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Speaker 2: can actually implement in order to make this operational reviable.

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Speaker 1: I have a question about that. Before I do, you're

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Speaker 1: listening to doctor Stefan Lecorky. He's a researcher and engineer

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Speaker 1: with Stalinbass and he was also part of the team

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Speaker 1: that made this incredible feat by bringing an electric motorcycle

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Speaker 1: from Kenya to South Africa. You can go watch the

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Speaker 1: donkey series that they made. It's called Recharging Hope, and

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Speaker 1: it really is incredibly interesting. This concept of battery swapping

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Speaker 1: verse traditional recharging. This is also critical and I think

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Speaker 1: that as you were saying, this energy on demand concept

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Speaker 1: is really cool. How is it I have environmentally because

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Speaker 1: and I'm not a scientist, but from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: there is an environmental element that makes batteries not as

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Speaker 1: clean as we always think or no.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, I think it depends on your talk. There's

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Speaker 2: a big debate regarding traditional charging methods and software stations,

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Speaker 2: but I think there's a place for both. Obviously, when

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Speaker 2: it comes to battery shopping, you have the option of

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Speaker 2: energy on demand, so I mean it's quicker than filling

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Speaker 2: up your normal petrol motorcycle and you have that luxury

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Speaker 2: to just get energy on the mind. I think that

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Speaker 2: that is amazing. And you also have centralized charging locations

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Speaker 2: now in certain countries on the continent that can be

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Speaker 2: a benefit. In other countries like Hours where we have

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Speaker 2: long distances to travel, we live quite far from our

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Speaker 2: work on average. You know, that starts getting an issue

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Speaker 2: because you have to get to a centralized location before

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Speaker 2: you can start your you know, your deliveries or your

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Speaker 2: daily driving or whatever the case might be. So then

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Speaker 2: a use case with traditional charging comes into play. And

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Speaker 2: to be honest from our point of view, you would

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Speaker 2: need a combination of both. And that's when we move

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Speaker 2: down or technically upstream towards the energy source. And I

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Speaker 2: think in South Africa that's obviously where we have a

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Speaker 2: critical there's advantage compared to that of East Africa. If

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Speaker 2: Africa has blessed with a lot of thermal energy, a

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Speaker 2: lot of renewable energy within their grit whereas in South

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Speaker 2: Africa we have a lot of fossil fuel based energy,

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Speaker 2: and that's where the energy you know, it doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: is that environmentally friendly than it can be, but there

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Speaker 2: is option. So I think when it comes to electric motorcycles, specifically,

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Speaker 2: the capacity required to move a largely it's far less

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Speaker 2: as when you are looking at a lot of personalized

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Speaker 2: vehicles and to move that towards the electric So I

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Speaker 2: think from an entry point of view, to start with

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Speaker 2: a renewable energy generation and electric mobility, a motorcycle is

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Speaker 2: a far more viable option.

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Speaker 1: Sure, sure, And of course, not to mention the fact

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Speaker 1: that an electric motorcycle versus a petrol powered or diesel

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Speaker 1: not diesel, but petrol motorcycle, it's a lot cheaper for

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Speaker 1: the riders. And when you're talking about the average person

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Speaker 1: using a motorcycle in Africa, it would benefit them a

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Speaker 1: lot not having to purchase petrol exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. Let me tell you two cool stories

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Speaker 2: about that. I think the first one, imagine there's that

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Speaker 2: you know someone that hasn't been able to own an

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Speaker 2: asset the entire lives have access to actually buy a motorcycle.

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Speaker 2: First thing, it's affordable because you can create a micro

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Speaker 2: enterprise around that motorcycle. And when it comes to electric motorcycle,

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Speaker 2: what we've seen the calculation show in South Africa, for instance,

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Speaker 2: if you go from a petrol to electric in your

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Speaker 2: current delivery or micro enterprise environment, you're almost looking at

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Speaker 2: making one thy eight hundred grand more per month compared

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Speaker 2: to that of your petrol motorcycle. And that is also

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Speaker 2: shown in Kenya. I mean there's a lot of testamenties.

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Speaker 2: They have guys that started off with one electric motorcycle,

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Speaker 2: they finance it, they lease the leads to own structure,

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Speaker 2: and as soon as they pay down their first motorcycle,

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Speaker 2: they're actually in a position because of that extra operational

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Speaker 2: savings they have to buy a second motorcycle. And there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of drivers there within a company that actually

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Speaker 2: owns sevent to threen motorcycles now and started a mini fleet.

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Speaker 2: And I think that empowerment through a piece of technology.

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Speaker 2: But my making it electric is really valuable in terms

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Speaker 2: of you know, the economy, our culture and helping people

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Speaker 2: in tough situations.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's a whole entrepreneurial edge there that we didn't

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Speaker 1: think of. Talking Stephan Localk, thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: your time he's a researcher, an engineer with stealin Boss