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Speaker 1: You're with Clement Manya Tela on seven Let's Walk the

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Speaker 1: Talk streaming on the Prime Media plus.

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Speaker 2: Ad DearS TV channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: Ninety two point seven and one O six FM.

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Speaker 2: I know clud Mela. Welcome to the Clement Mania Tela

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Speaker 2: Show on this twenty fifth day of March. You may

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Speaker 2: believe it, it's the twenty fifth of March already. It's always

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Speaker 2: great to be in your company. Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 2: You're on seven otso. I hope you're well this morning. Hello. Hello.

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Speaker 2: If you're watching us on YouTube, the seven or two

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Speaker 2: Open Line starts now on OH one one eight eight

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Speaker 2: seven O two. You can send what's ups on ocean

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Speaker 2: to sivin OH two one seven oh two. So, the

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Speaker 2: latest coming out of Washington, DC, coming out of the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration is that America has achieved regime change in Iran.

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Speaker 2: President Trump says there's now a new group that is

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Speaker 2: in charge. This is what he said a few hours ago.

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Speaker 2: I hate to say it, but.

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Speaker 4: We killed all their leadership, and then they met to

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Speaker 4: choose new leaders and we killed all of them. And

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Speaker 4: now we have a new group and we can easily

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Speaker 4: do that. But let's see how they turn out, it's

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Speaker 4: we have really regime change. You know, this is a

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Speaker 4: change in the regime because the leaders are all very

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Speaker 4: different than the ones that we started off with that

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Speaker 4: created all those problems. So this was I think we

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Speaker 4: can say, Jason, this is regime change.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: They did something yesterday that was amazing. Actually, they gave

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Speaker 4: us a present and the president arrived today. It was

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Speaker 4: a very big present, worth a tremendous amount of money.

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Speaker 4: It starts with no nuclear weapons, and they've agreed to

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Speaker 4: that there won't be any nuclear weapons. They're not going

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Speaker 4: to have and they're not going to have enrichment any

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Speaker 4: of those things. But look, I hate to say that,

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Speaker 4: we're in a very good bargaining position, but and I

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Speaker 4: hate to say that they're defenseless, because you know, until

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Speaker 4: that last missile is fired, they have little power. But

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Speaker 4: we are in about the best bargaining position.

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Speaker 2: So he says there is now a new group that's

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Speaker 2: in charge. They've sent them a really big present. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he goes on to say, I really we get along

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Speaker 2: with the person now that's in charge. The question, though,

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Speaker 2: is do you believe this? Who is this new group?

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Speaker 2: Doesn't Iran have a newly appointed Supreme leader. Remember the

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Speaker 2: experts in ITR elected Sayid Moshtaba Kamena as the new

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Speaker 2: Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran, which actually

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Speaker 2: indicated that the headliners are still very much family in charge.

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Speaker 2: But then Trump has also indicated that the new Supreme

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Speaker 2: Leader may be dead or seriously injured, because why hasn't

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Speaker 2: he spoken out in public?

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Speaker 5: Trump?

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Speaker 2: What are your advisors telling you about the Iyatola's son,

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Speaker 2: the new Supreme leader? What are they telling you? Not

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Speaker 2: only that much you people.

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Speaker 6: I mean a lot of people are saying that he's

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Speaker 6: badly disfigured. They're saying that he lost his leg, one leg,

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Speaker 6: and he's you know, been hurt very badly. Other people

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Speaker 6: are saying he's dead. Nobody's saying he's one hundred percent healthy.

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Speaker 6: And uh, he hasn't you know, he hasn't spoken because

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Speaker 6: the Ayatola would sit.

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Speaker 4: And it's few hate from a form of a throne.

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Speaker 4: Not as nice as a throne. I like the English

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Speaker 4: throne much better. But it was a fancy chair. But

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Speaker 4: he'd spew hate from his chair. But you see him

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Speaker 4: a lot, right this one.

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Speaker 6: We haven't seen it at all, so that could be

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Speaker 6: for a lot of different reasons.

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Speaker 2: We don't know Peter I is dead or not, So

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Speaker 2: we don't know if he's dead or not. But the

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Speaker 2: question that Trump has been asking, and this was a

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Speaker 2: few days ago, he's been saying, why hasn't he spoken

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Speaker 2: out publicly? Is it not a fair question though, to

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Speaker 2: ask why hasn't then you supremely addressed Iranians. And maybe

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Speaker 2: they are worried about his security. Maybe they're playing the US.

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Speaker 2: They don't want the US to know what they're working on.

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Speaker 2: They want America to continue to think that the men

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Speaker 2: could be dead or could be injured. But he's actually

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Speaker 2: family running things behind the scenes. What do you think

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Speaker 2: I get in touch with us on one one a day,

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Speaker 2: three oh seven oh two or send it what's up

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Speaker 2: on oh seven two seven o two one seven oh two.

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Speaker 2: And speaking of this war in the Middle East, South

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Speaker 2: Africa now continues to feel this pressure of rising living costs,

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Speaker 2: and now these global events are adding even more uncertainty.

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Speaker 2: I mean, on the one hand, there are more signs

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Speaker 2: of improvement. You've got consumer confidence that has ticked up

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Speaker 2: slightly in the first quarter of the year, particularly among

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Speaker 2: higher income households, and that's been helped by the lower

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Speaker 2: interest rates and a stronger rand. But that optimism may

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Speaker 2: actually be short lived. Economists are now warning that this

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Speaker 2: ongoing conflict in the Middle East, particularly then in Iran,

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Speaker 2: could drive up oil prices, which then pushes up foil, transport,

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Speaker 2: food costs, you name it. And when fuil goes up,

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Speaker 2: everything else follows, from groceries to flights, putting even more

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Speaker 2: strain on the already stretched household budget. And you've got

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Speaker 2: South Africans that already dealing with high dead limited disposable income,

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Speaker 2: meaning any increase in costs hits harder and forces difficult

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Speaker 2: trade offs. So while some households may have started the

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Speaker 2: year feeling slightly more confident, the reality is that this

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Speaker 2: global instability could quickly change the picture. And I'd like

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Speaker 2: to know what your lived experiences are. How have you

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Speaker 2: been affected. Are you already starting to see and feel

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Speaker 2: the impact of the woe in the Middle East, either

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Speaker 2: through the travels that you've had to console maybe you

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Speaker 2: run a business and you are directly impacted. How is

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Speaker 2: the current state of the world right now affecting your

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Speaker 2: finances and your plans for the year. Are you having

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Speaker 2: to adjust your household budget? Are you cutting back on transport,

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Speaker 2: on groceries, on entertainment? I mean, have you even put

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Speaker 2: travel plans on hold because of the rising costs or

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Speaker 2: because of the conflict and the uncertainty that it has cost?

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Speaker 2: Huh oh one one eighty three or seven O two?

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Speaker 2: What's ups? One seven O two?

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Speaker 1: Clement Maneatela streaming on the Prime Media Plus at.

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Speaker 2: Dear S TV channel eight five six.

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Speaker 7: Ninety two point seven and one six.

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Speaker 8: Them Clement, Hi Trump Trump has lost his marbles because

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Speaker 8: if you were to think about what he's saying, and

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Speaker 8: he's basically willing his vision into the universe as if

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Speaker 8: that's a real thing, and it's not. But then let

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Speaker 8: me just remind you you are talking about a Trump

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Speaker 8: who met the president of Puerto Rico. That's the same

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Speaker 8: Trump you're talking about have great chats with the president

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Speaker 8: of Puerto Rico. Sons about him? Is mahashude if you

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Speaker 8: ask me talking to the chairman who then speaks to

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Speaker 8: the Secretary General Chump.

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Speaker 5: Clement, good morning, Haman you who said that one thing

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Speaker 5: that you have observed about Donald Trump that he is decisive,

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Speaker 5: And then we can say whatever. But at the end

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Speaker 5: of the day, Iran is no measure to America. They

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Speaker 5: can try to attacks. The countries that are in the

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Speaker 5: middle is in support of America. But at the end

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Speaker 5: of the day, Iran will fall. No one will stop America.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we all know its effect. No one will

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Speaker 5: stop America. Even they too, They are aware that without

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Speaker 5: America they are as good as nothing. And I'm not

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Speaker 5: promoting on condoning. What America is doing bad is that

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Speaker 5: country is too powerful military, so that but that spending,

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Speaker 5: it's so overwhelming the other countries combined.

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Speaker 2: So what can we say?

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Speaker 9: Good morning, Clement and the listeners listening to the clip

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Speaker 9: you just played about Donald Trump. One question that comes

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Speaker 9: to mind, and it's because of the confusion from a

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Speaker 9: lack of knowledge on my side, and I would appreciate

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Speaker 9: if somebody can scoore me on this one. At what

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Speaker 9: point does the criminal court, the international Criminal Court, play

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Speaker 9: a role? At what point does it apply? And because

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Speaker 9: here's somebody who's openly admitting to killing people, let's put

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Speaker 9: aside to the reasons. But he's openly admitting to killing people,

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Speaker 9: and you know, life goes on as normal. So I

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Speaker 9: would really like to get some form of education, our

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Speaker 9: assistance in terms of the role that is played by

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Speaker 9: International Criminal Court, And at what point can we expect

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Speaker 9: it to do something from this level slindly immitgrant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, See, Look, the America is not a member of

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Speaker 2: the International Criminal Court in my understanding, they're not a member. Yes,

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Speaker 2: they signed the Rome Statute, if I'm not mistaken, in

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Speaker 2: around two thousand or so, but it never ratified the treaty,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, at some point the Bush administration formerly

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Speaker 2: withdrew that signature in two thousand and two. So and

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Speaker 2: maybe that does make sense, Hey, when you look at

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Speaker 2: what America has actually done in a number of countries Libya, Iraqs, Afghanistan,

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Speaker 2: you know, Iran, Venezuela, and maybe you can go on

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Speaker 2: and on and on, but can you imagine how tricky

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Speaker 2: their relationship with the ICC would be. So maybe that's

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Speaker 2: understandable that they are not a member of the ICC,

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Speaker 2: given their own context and their actions. But that's just

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Speaker 2: a response on that. But it's it's wild, I think.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the way we've gotten used to things that

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Speaker 2: are not even normal. Heads of state speak openly about,

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Speaker 2: oh we've killed that leader of government, that head of state, Like,

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Speaker 2: it's no longer bizarre anymore. Oh, we've abducted that head

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Speaker 2: of state. It's not long like a strange thing to say.

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Speaker 2: And that just tells you how the world has completely

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Speaker 2: moved and changed. It's no longer the world we were

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Speaker 2: used to. Yeah, twenty three minutes after.

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Speaker 7: Night, your voice, your station.

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Speaker 2: Both at all with Glement. So here's another question on

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Speaker 2: the open line. This morning, I was talking to the

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Speaker 2: producers about this. Have you ever felt pressured to give

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Speaker 2: a church or the synagogue or wherever you go to

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Speaker 2: whether to worship or to pray, or you know, where

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Speaker 2: you go to speak to the higher source, or to

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Speaker 2: go and fellowship with people. Have you ever felt the

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Speaker 2: pressure to give? There was a video that did the

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Speaker 2: round in fact, that started this conversation of people in church,

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Speaker 2: and there's a woman who pretends like she's giving. It

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Speaker 2: is quite a funny video, but it really raised some

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Speaker 2: serious questions because people began to comment of how that's

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Speaker 2: actually the experience that they have sometimes when they go

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Speaker 2: to church. And I really struggled to rationalize that, and

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Speaker 2: I thought, let's let's do like a sort of a

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Speaker 2: temperature check. Have you ever felt the pressure to give

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Speaker 2: in church, And what do you think churches should do,

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Speaker 2: or these places of worship or fellowship should do so

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Speaker 2: that people don't feel less than because they're unable to

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Speaker 2: give on that day or in that moment, so that

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Speaker 2: they don't feel pressure to give. Because sometimes you've you know,

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Speaker 2: you've got religious leaders who stand there and say, no,

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Speaker 2: that hundred rand you have, God is saying, trust him

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Speaker 2: with that, And some people end up feeling the pressure too.

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Speaker 2: And that's not to say they shouldn't listen to it.

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Speaker 2: God is supposedly saying through the religious leader, but some

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Speaker 2: people do it out of I'm under pressure too, and

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Speaker 2: not because they necessarily feel the need to do it.

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Speaker 2: And I wonder what your context is. Maybe you go

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Speaker 2: to a church that you've picked up. Does that have

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Speaker 2: how do you deal with a scenario like that? Do

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Speaker 2: you ever feel embarrassed when you're not giving? When that

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Speaker 2: basket comes? Does it get awkward when you hand it

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Speaker 2: over to the next person without necessarily throwing five friend

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Speaker 2: or ten rand or whatever amount in there? How do

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Speaker 2: we deal with that? And how do we create an environment,

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Speaker 2: especially in churches, where people do not feel under pressure?

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Speaker 2: And yes they do it because they really want to.

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Speaker 2: They do it because they've appreciated the message, or they

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Speaker 2: just want to help the church. But it's not because

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Speaker 2: they feel under pressure and they feel less done when

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Speaker 2: they are not giving. Please share your thoughts with us

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Speaker 2: on that on oh one one eight eight three oh

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Speaker 2: seven oh two. I will take your what's ups as

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Speaker 2: well after the break and.

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Speaker 7: Your voice, your station, your open line walk at all.

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Speaker 2: On seven eighteen till nine minutes after nine o'clock. Let's

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Speaker 2: start with you in Tembisa. What do you want to say?

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Speaker 2: Good morning?

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Speaker 10: I Clement?

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Speaker 2: Are you all go ahead?

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Speaker 10: I'm got here, not Clement. I think first we need

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Speaker 10: to define that we give out of faith, out of

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Speaker 10: God's promise, not out of compulsion from a religious leader.

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Speaker 10: You know, it's basically giving out of faith, believing that

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Speaker 10: God will reward that or whatever that.

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Speaker 11: You have giving.

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Speaker 10: But when religious leaders start now imposing and saying you

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Speaker 10: must give so much, I think people then are taught wrongly.

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Speaker 10: The giving path starts from being taught that it is

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Speaker 10: a relationship that you built with God to give a

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Speaker 10: little bit and then from their their rewards will come.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but Tony, have you picked up that there is

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Speaker 2: now this trend of religious leaders who say I can

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Speaker 2: hear the Lord say three thousand rand for your deliverance,

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Speaker 2: or I can see someone in the church right now

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Speaker 2: who is praying for a job. God says, give whatever

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Speaker 2: you have right now, give all of it. Now. Have

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Speaker 2: you never heard them say that?

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Speaker 10: No, they do, and I'll tell you. I'll tell you.

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Speaker 10: But the biggest problem was follow as a specialist, that

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Speaker 10: they don't read the Bible, you understand, and they actually

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Speaker 10: now are dependent on being taught the Bible of understanding

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Speaker 10: the principles of what giving actually in tails. So I

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Speaker 10: know what you mean is that they're being pumped up.

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Speaker 10: They're being driven to say give, this is what the

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Speaker 10: lot is. But believe you me. You can give on

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Speaker 10: a Monday, you can give on a Wednesday. You can

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Speaker 10: give supposed to be only a Sunday thing. So it's

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Speaker 10: a relationship that you need to I'm giving because I'm

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Speaker 10: trusting the promise of God.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And or maybe you're giving because you're helping the church.

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Speaker 2: I'm one person who believes and also giving to help

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Speaker 2: the church because the church does important works. Sometimes when

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Speaker 2: I can go to church, I watch on YouTube. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's a lot of money to produce that kind of

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Speaker 2: service on YouTube and for it to be live, and

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Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Also, So pastors are not They don't

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Speaker 2: have day to day jobs, most of them or some

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Speaker 2: of them, so they need to be taken care of

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Speaker 2: by the church. So that's just not to say people

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Speaker 2: must not give, but there's a trend now where people

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Speaker 2: feel the pressure to h where the pastors will say

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Speaker 2: that I can I see somebody in the congregation right

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Speaker 2: now who's got a pain on the bag bah bah

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Speaker 2: bahshi yashi ashia. Are you that person? Stand up now

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Speaker 2: and give that money. God will save you. It's said

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Speaker 2: that that's where things are getting to. I'm just worried

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Speaker 2: that there are people in the church who are now

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Speaker 2: also now feeling embarrassed because they just don't have that

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Speaker 2: money to give in that moment. How do we mach

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Speaker 2: our fellowship environments churches, synagogues, environments where people don't feel

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Speaker 2: less done and they're not played on their emotions. And

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Speaker 2: I think, as says, it starts with you also understanding

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Speaker 2: the word so that you are not prayed on it's

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Speaker 2: nine thirty two.

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Speaker 7: Your voice, your station, your anthem line, walked at all

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Speaker 7: on seven eighteen.

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Speaker 2: Three minutes before ten outlag. Let's start with you. What's

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Speaker 2: a voice, notes Lindigil Carol Simon. I see, I'll start

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Speaker 2: with your cause after this good morning, clemen.

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Speaker 12: In regards to the giving a church, when I was

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Speaker 12: living in Durban and I reside in Joanne's bug. When

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Speaker 12: I was living in Durban, I should go to this

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Speaker 12: one church. I'm not talking bad about the church, but

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Speaker 12: the pastor. If you do not pay so called tides

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Speaker 12: in the church every month, you would receive a letter

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Speaker 12: from the church stating that you haven't paid tides for

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Speaker 12: the past two or three months. Because when we should

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Speaker 12: give tithes, we were requested to walk to the front

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Speaker 12: of the church and the somebody holding the basket in

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Speaker 12: the plant and you put your money or your tithes

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Speaker 12: into it. So when you are not going in the front,

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Speaker 12: people to turn and look at you. And you know,

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Speaker 12: I understand people looking at you and thinking, oh, you're

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Speaker 12: not playing tied, but you are a church.

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Speaker 2: You're not going to church to pay tide. You're going

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Speaker 2: to hear the word of God. Thank you.

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Speaker 13: Jernest Bergs high lament.

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Speaker 2: So as.

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Speaker 14: They do you like Okay, first, I don't know how

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Speaker 14: Sunday will you go the end.

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Speaker 2: It's time to give. They will be like first.

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Speaker 14: Round, the second round because they are targets, so they

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Speaker 14: will be like a tide that they said for the gay.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they will be like.

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Speaker 14: Only them as maybe reaching amount of two thousand, just

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Speaker 14: making an example. And when it doesn't, after everyone has

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Speaker 14: sat down and has given, they will be like you know,

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Speaker 14: run two that that you have the bring it in.

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Speaker 14: And then the those monthly not monthly sorry early appreciations

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Speaker 14: to the pastors. They are minimum amounts. Say that you

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Speaker 14: can't give. Okay, that you can't, but like they certain

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Speaker 14: minimum mount to see a minimum mount of appreciation that

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Speaker 14: one has supert in is like minimum of maybe one

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Speaker 14: thousand going upwards.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's crazy, Yeah, it's it's quite wild. Hey Carol,

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Speaker 2: you calling us from fen and good morning, good.

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Speaker 15: Morning, good morning.

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Speaker 10: Yeah.

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Speaker 15: So my take my belief and understanding from reading the word.

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Speaker 15: You know, you've got tithing and you've got Thanksgiving. So

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Speaker 15: no member of church or any believer should feel the

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Speaker 15: pressure and feel guilty to watch the pastor or the church.

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Speaker 15: The only film you should have is you not listening

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Speaker 15: and following the command of God that is in the Bible.

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Speaker 15: He specifically stays, and it stays, it stays ten percent

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Speaker 15: of your earnings. Ten percent can physical money, it could

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Speaker 15: be a trade, a skill that you have, because that

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Speaker 15: is what you are able to give. But then it

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Speaker 15: is ten percent of your worth, of your endings, of

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Speaker 15: your or whoever you are, in the environment that you're in.

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Speaker 15: So it is critical to actually read and note your Bible.

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Speaker 15: A pastor who preaches otherwise is not a godly pastor.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Carol and fain, thank you. Simon, you are in Durban.

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Speaker 2: What are your thoughts, High Clement, I'm a right man.

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Speaker 16: Go ahead, yeah, Clements. Voluntary giving for me is meant

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Speaker 16: to be something that's very personal, a faceful decision, and

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Speaker 16: not to be given under convulsion or for public recognition. However,

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Speaker 16: what I'm noticing now, and this happens more in the

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Speaker 16: so called from the coastal church, and not saying all

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Speaker 16: of them, because I also go to a from the

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Speaker 16: coastal church. So I see now that more and more

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Speaker 16: people are told that the more you give, the more

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Speaker 16: you get blessed, which is not true. That means that

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Speaker 16: if I pay ten thousand rents. This is someone that

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Speaker 16: pays further the rents, then I get blessed more because

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Speaker 16: I paid more. No, it's actually wrong. In fact, it

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Speaker 16: happens more from what I think, from what I'm standing

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Speaker 16: in those types of churches where the giving is one

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Speaker 16: way towards the church, and often it's one person that

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Speaker 16: is in charge, and the manager doesn't go out. Whenever

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Speaker 16: something you need, someone needs to be helped. What of

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Speaker 16: the president needs to be helped, the bus alone, it

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Speaker 16: needs to play. Again, nothing comes from the church cofers

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Speaker 16: going out, but something Everything comes towards towards the church.

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Speaker 16: And then now and then you'll see people stand up.

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Speaker 16: If any big project, building project, although that are going

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Speaker 16: to cour to be ten thousand rents. Please tell now

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Speaker 16: all those that are gonna put you see people now,

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Speaker 16: so this one is better than that one, the one

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Speaker 16: they don't send up. Okay, so these are blodships of

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Speaker 16: their house. They're very unsafe. Yeah, I mean, thank you

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Speaker 16: for thank.

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Speaker 2: You, thank you, thank you smone. I mean, I do

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Speaker 2: think we need to have these conversations because we've got

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Speaker 2: people go to church, you listen to us. We've got

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Speaker 2: pastors who listen to us and and I don't know,

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Speaker 2: maybe some pastors feel the pressure and they're too desperate

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Speaker 2: because they need the money because they have to pay

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Speaker 2: the bills, or but there's a way to go about it.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a way to go about it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's in recent time, it's gotten out of control. Listen

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Speaker 2: to this one because someone just lettered us to the

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Speaker 2: slip of who's this now, Marvin Sup this is one

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Speaker 2: of the pastors in America. Listen to how he did

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Speaker 2: it in his church, and.

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Speaker 17: They understand the cost that is involved. There's one thousand.

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Speaker 17: You close them doors, ushers close the doors, close the doors,

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Speaker 17: close the doors.

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Speaker 2: We all gonna leave together.

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Speaker 17: Y'all ain't going no place but to the restaurant. There's

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Speaker 17: one thousand of you tonight, and those that are watching,

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Speaker 17: it's a thousand that's watching online. This is a small seed.

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Speaker 17: If I get a thousand on line to give this,

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Speaker 17: if I get a thousand in the sanctuary to give this,

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Speaker 17: that's forty thousand dollars tonight. I'm challenging each of you

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Speaker 17: all down here to give a twenty dollars seed. I

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Speaker 17: just think twenty dollars a lot of money.

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Speaker 2: Twenty dollars, believe it or not.

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Speaker 17: When my late wife, Melinda piece Apple was alive, was

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Speaker 17: a good date. I could take her to the movies

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Speaker 17: by a box of popcorn, get one soda, two straws.

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Speaker 17: I wasn't cheat that swag. I was looking at her eyes,

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Speaker 17: she's looking at mine.

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Speaker 2: It's actually quite cringe Yeah, so cringe worthy. Close the

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Speaker 2: doors wild Linda kill you call it from the jury

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Speaker 2: in good morning.

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Speaker 11: I'm Ramanna tell sir, I have to say, giving in

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Speaker 11: church is an act of worship, and people get lost

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Speaker 11: because they miss that important sect is an act of worship.

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Speaker 11: I make an example in the congregation where're worshiping Yan Centurion.

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Speaker 11: When the time of giving comes, the stewards will go out,

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Speaker 11: and then whoever has will put the offering. If they

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Speaker 11: do not have, they don't put. And I want you

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Speaker 11: to understand this because I'm the part I'm standing in front.

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Speaker 11: When I have, I give. When I do not have,

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Speaker 11: I don't give. And I don't feel less of those

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Speaker 11: who have given today because for me, giving is an

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Speaker 11: act of worship, and the one whom I'm worshiping knows

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Speaker 11: that today I do not have, and so I don't mind,

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Speaker 11: who's watching, who's not watching. It's between me and God

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Speaker 11: and God. Giving is between one person and God. And

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Speaker 11: so I'm ashamed of what we are doing is past

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Speaker 11: us in the Church of Christ because we put money first,

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Speaker 11: people after, and that's what actually makes the church to

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Speaker 11: be to people to help. This is our taste about church.

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Speaker 11: Giving is between one person and God, and you give

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Speaker 11: what you have and that is done.

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Speaker 2: You don't need to push people and be too convincing.

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Speaker 2: Just explain how important giving is. That's it. Explain how

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Speaker 2: important giving is. Read scripture, allow people to if they

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Speaker 2: can provide different options for them to do it. That's it.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, plenty killing sent you and thank you

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Speaker 2: for call. Things have just completely changed these days. More

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Speaker 2: of your what's up seven seven, two and seven or

435
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: two and the team and the and the lessoners.

436
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 18: Second Corincience, chapter nine, verse seven is talking about a

437
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 18: cheerful giver that God wants us to give us ches

438
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 18: chead chead, cheerfully, not with obligation. I think what we

439
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 18: need to do as congregends we need to be more

440
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 18: into the world. What is the Bible saying it's not

441
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 18: about the preacher A sim U I mean rather killams,

442
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 18: you love memulate little sans in lute yeah zoelik my

443
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 18: two cents child.

444
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 19: Good money in Clement and your team religious leaders Clement,

445
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 19: they emphasize that to this before that process of giving,

446
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 19: that are those who have got even specific amount that

447
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 19: you need to put as a tightly in church. These days,

448
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 19: church is no longer about praying, Clement. It's all about

449
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 19: making money. I say, a lot of a dog pastus.

450
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 19: Even the congregation bikers for them or even paying their

451
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 19: rent for that matter. It's a very making situation. And

452
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 19: they do target single parent. They are the most vulnerable

453
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 19: people in our society. From mex In Pretoria.

454
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: So high Clement.

455
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 20: So I yeah, anonymous here I went to church and

456
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 20: because obviously the time they have rechoosed, they start to

457
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 20: the announced that what they're going to do now is

458
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 20: if you are found to not be tithing, they will

459
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 20: announce people at church on Sunday that I'm Tiday.

460
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 21: So subsequently I actually leave the church because what do

461
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 21: you mean you're going to announce guti. So I think

462
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 21: that's not what the church spirit or what I believe in.

463
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,239
Speaker 2: So we need to do better. But also we are

464
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: custodians of the church, and we need to be able

465
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: to raise these issues with our religious leaders.

466
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 11: Hey.

467
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: Also, it's so tough because some pastors are so sensitive.

468
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: Now you become you, you're you're sent by the devil

469
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: when you raise a concern that. I think how we're

470
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: going about this giving thing is starting to make people

471
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,719
Speaker 2: feel out of place, or feel like they don't belong,

472
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: or they feel like they're failing because they just don't

473
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: have the resources that the church keeps desperately calling out for.

474
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: You know who also disappointed me recently. You need a

475
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: bay them. And for the longest time, she's been and

476
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: continues to be one of my favorite gospel artists and

477
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 2: recently saw a video of her. My goodness black.

478
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 22: You have never seen black. You have never seen one

479
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 22: thousand and six or six dollars. There's nothing you can

480
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 22: get money back, Hi ran mess Mahaya. Yes, Lord, he

481
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 22: just said, five more people are sitting here deciding. But

482
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,479
Speaker 22: you're not deciding about money. You're deciding about your future.

483
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 22: You're not deciding about money. You're deciding about your future.

484
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 22: He said, Come now, saysn't about money. This is about

485
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 22: your future.

486
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: Literally about money.

487
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 22: This is about the restoration of your faith. God wants

488
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 22: some people to pay some bills for him. He said,

489
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 22: everywhere you go, he said, I will hand pick twenty

490
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 22: one people in the building.

491
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: So what God said, there are twenty one people in

492
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 2: that building who must paid one thousand what dollars. And

493
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: then she says it's nothing. Come on, come on, God says,

494
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 2: there's five of you here that are sitting there. This

495
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: is about your restoration. Now you're playing to people's emotions.

496
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: Now that's not cool. It's just not cool. Ten minutes

497
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: before ten boys, your.

498
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 7: Station, your aunt in line bought at all with Clement

499
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 7: on seven eighteen.

500
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: Seven minutes before ten o'clock, Isa, you ain't kill Laney.

501
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 13: Good morning morning clemen, first time on your show.

502
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: Welcome.

503
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 13: Thanks. Clement's religion has got nothing to do with God.

504
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 13: It's a business entity. It can be bought with money.

505
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 13: It goes to a normal registration. There's a marketing team,

506
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 13: there's a business projection report at what you say, what

507
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 13: you do. It's all about money. There's also when the

508
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,479
Speaker 13: past dies, there's a successor. The success is always going

509
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 13: to be a family entity. The business continues. However, faith

510
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 13: is in inheritance you either inherit good faith or you

511
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 13: inherit that faith. That faith is when your people in

512
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 13: the past, or people in the past, your elderly that compassed,

513
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 13: have put in traditional beliefs or were indoctrinated.

514
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 11: To believe that.

515
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 13: If you don't bless the pastor you don't do this,

516
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 13: you don't do this in your church or in a

517
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 13: mosque or in a temple, you will be cursed or

518
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 13: you will be there. Lastly, I want to say, in

519
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 13: the time of Jesus, it was these very high priests

520
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 13: and pastors that were affected because Jesus was telling the

521
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 13: truth and they plotted, they plotted to crucifying because it

522
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 13: helped their pocket. I tell you this, Clement, in this

523
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 13: modern time, if Jesus has to come back now, it's

524
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 13: the very high priest, the very churches, they're very so

525
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 13: called religious leaders that will be the first in the

526
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 13: forefront picking up the spears and the guns and the

527
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 13: knives to go and kill Jesus. They won't even recognize everyone. Yes,

528
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 13: he's gonna coming to strut who want they bleed to

529
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 13: be disrupted nobody.

530
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 2: It's a great contribution there in Kiln. Thank you, Jack,

531
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: You're in Pretoria high.

532
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 23: A right Clement. Imagine sitting in church and the past

533
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 23: our so called tells you that sore and so did

534
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 23: not pay. That is intimidation and robbery. They should open cases.

535
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: But what you announced by the devil, Jack, open.

536
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 23: You open a case against this perspase is actually intimidating you.

537
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 23: And why is this past that's not contributing themselves?

538
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: Well, they do contribute, Jack, How do they do.

539
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 23: At all what I was saying. I used to go

540
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 23: to church when I was young. I was forced to

541
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 23: go to churche by my parents, But I don't go

542
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 23: to church myself now. I haven't never seen anyone from

543
00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 23: that culpit contributing.

544
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 2: I've seen that Jack also, to be fair, But thanks

545
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: for a call, Jack and Victoria. To be fair. There

546
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: are pastors who, even from the pulpit, they'll take out

547
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: money and say, okay, let's give, and they give often

548
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 2: and many I've seen intentional about it, because they want

549
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: you to see that they're also contributing. But also you

550
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 2: must remember that there are a lot of pastors that

551
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: have put in so much investment in building that church,

552
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: so that building that you go into, probably they had

553
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: to save money while they had a ninety five corperate

554
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: job to make sure that there's a building. They often

555
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 2: have to come in where there's water that's needed in

556
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 2: the church while the church is so small. And maybe

557
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: we start complaining when the church is way too big

558
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: and you can see the pasta driving a Mazarati or Porsche,

559
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: and you think, ooh, it's the money of the church.

560
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: But also do we know about what the pasta has

561
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 2: had to sacrifice. I'm just saying there's another side to this,

562
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: but that doesn't take away the fact that our experiences

563
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 2: more and more these days, are that there's just this

564
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: desperation with money, to a point that there are certain

565
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: posters who are willing to make people feel bad for

566
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 2: not having something to give a church, And I just

567
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: think that is missing the mark, because the church is

568
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 2: supposed to be a home, supposed to be a place

569
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: where you belong. Shouldn't be feel shouldn't be feeling pressured

570
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: to do something you're unable to do. If anything, you

571
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: should be feel should feel embraced and supported so that

572
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 2: one day you're able to do what you want to do.

573
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 24: Him very brave of you to raise this topic. I've

574
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 24: been contemplating on writing a paper on it or a book,

575
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 24: and that's the religion. I'd like to stay anonymous at

576
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 24: this point in change. However, I need to point this out.

577
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 24: It's very sensitive. Faith can stand or fall on this topic.

578
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 24: Emotions can can rise and fall on this topic, et cetera,

579
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 24: et cetera.

580
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: And I wish that this topic could be.

581
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 24: Explored, you know further, betterly than never, because I think

582
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 24: this could have actually taken this center stage in my view,

583
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 24: probably more than a decade ago, but once more, betterly

584
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 24: than never. And you've got someone that is prepared to

585
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 24: engage the topic like yourself, And yeah, we are happy,

586
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 24: and please, next time if you engage this topic again,

587
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 24: I would like to be in the loop.

588
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: Thank you. Look, next time when we engage this topic,

589
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 2: we must do a live audience and all of you

590
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 2: will have to, yeah, contribute something. We'll have a basket

591
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: when we do the show. Next time we discuss this,

592
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: we'll invite you here, but there'll be a busket doing

593
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: the round for your wonderful hat felt God appreciated contributions.

594
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: How about that? Hey, it's two minutes before Ted