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Speaker 1: Relationship issues relationship Talk.

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Speaker 2: On our relationship feature this morning, we're discussing navigating sexuality

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Speaker 2: within relationships, and of course, for people who are in

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Speaker 2: the situation, this can be deeply complex, especially when one

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Speaker 2: partner begins to question their sexuality. And while it's completely

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Speaker 2: normal for people to explore and reassess their sexuality over time, it.

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Speaker 3: Can also feel.

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Speaker 2: Just particularly it can feel unhappy for you, disorientating as

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Speaker 2: well for those who have long identified, for instance, as

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Speaker 2: heterosexual or gay or lesbian.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: For instance, someone could be committed in a heaterosexual relationship

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Speaker 2: and then they suddenly find themselves feeling attracted to the

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Speaker 2: same sex, or a person in the same sex relationship

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Speaker 2: begins experiencing attraction outside of what they've always known, and

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Speaker 2: these experiences can bring about confusion, and understandably so, they

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Speaker 2: bring about fear even guilt, not just for the person

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Speaker 2: who's exploring their identity, but also for their partner, because

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Speaker 2: also for a partner on the receiving end, if your

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Speaker 2: own husband or your own wife tells you that they

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Speaker 2: are now attracted to someone of a similar sex to them,

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Speaker 2: that can be devastating to you because that's not how

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Speaker 2: you've known your partner to be, or maybe you've been

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Speaker 2: in the same sex relationship and suddenly your own partner says, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm attracted to the opposite sex and that's an attraction

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Speaker 2: I've been feeling. So when you're on the receiving end,

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Speaker 2: how do you deal with something like that? A lot

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Speaker 2: of the people who share experiences say that kind of

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Speaker 2: scenario triggers feelings of insecurity because you're asking yourself, is

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Speaker 2: it me? Is it because I'm not enough? Is this

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Speaker 2: the end of our relationship? But experts are saying that

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Speaker 2: sexuality in fact can be fluid, like that sexuality exists

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Speaker 2: on a spectrum and discovering new aspects of oneself doesn't

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Speaker 2: automatically say that you must look at the relationship as

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Speaker 2: it being over. So I would like you to share

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Speaker 2: your own experiences with us. If this is something you've

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Speaker 2: navigated before, how have you, as a couple navigated this

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Speaker 2: delicate space? Have you ever been told by your lover

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Speaker 2: your partner that they are now attracted to the opposite

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Speaker 2: sex If you were, in, of course, a same sex relationship, Oh,

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Speaker 2: maybe you were in a heaterosexual relationship and your partner

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Speaker 2: now told you, well, I'm attracted to now the same

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Speaker 2: sex and how did you navigate that? Did it spell

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Speaker 2: the end of the relationship or did you find ways

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Speaker 2: to still accommodate the person and what their interests are

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Speaker 2: and what you have built with them. You can call

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Speaker 2: us on oh one one eight eight three h seven

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Speaker 2: oh two or sender what's up on seven two seven

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Speaker 2: oh two one seven oh two. Nicki prevoc is a

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Speaker 2: sexual wellness coach who's guiding us through this conversation.

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Speaker 3: Nikki, great to chat to you again.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, Hi clem, and thanks again for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite a tricky, tricky conversation we're having today,

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Speaker 2: but it is really something that happens a lot in relationships.

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Speaker 2: And maybe let me start with just your own experience

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Speaker 2: as a sexual wellness coach. You speak to a lot

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Speaker 2: of couples. How common is it for people to question

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Speaker 2: their sexuality while they're in a committed relationship.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the reality is that sexuality evolves over time.

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Speaker 4: You know, sexuality is not always fixed or fully understood

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Speaker 4: from the beginning. For many people, especially those raised in

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Speaker 4: more traditional environments, there are there may be years of

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Speaker 4: suppression and confusion, or simply a lack of language to

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Speaker 4: describe what they feel. So sometimes when it appears as

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Speaker 4: a sudden realization, is often something that's been quietly present

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Speaker 4: for a long time but that has been just suppressed

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Speaker 4: or not having the right language. So it's a conversation

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Speaker 4: ultimately about truth and identity and how relationships respond to change.

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Speaker 4: So I think when someone realizes that they're gay or

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Speaker 4: bisexual or questioning in a relationship, it can feel like

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Speaker 4: a collision between them internal truth and your external commitment.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's important to understand that this is

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Speaker 4: rarely about rejecting a partner in favor of someone better.

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Speaker 4: It's about an alignment with yourself. And it's a very

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Speaker 4: difficult topic because for the partner on the receiving end,

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Speaker 4: the emotional impact impact can be so profound it can

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Speaker 4: feel like rejection and betrayal, or even that the entire

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Speaker 4: relationship was built on a lie. And this is I

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Speaker 4: think where reframing becomes essential, because the relationship was not

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Speaker 4: necessarily a lie. It was real within the awareness of

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Speaker 4: both people that they had at that time.

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Speaker 1: And yes, love can be.

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Speaker 4: Genuine even if understanding evolves, and I think that's the

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Speaker 4: thing we must realize sexuality constantly evolves, and for some

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Speaker 4: it's you know, different orientations, but for some it's just

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Speaker 4: you know, new fantasies or something you're exciting. So obviously

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Speaker 4: some people face some more difficult decision that could actually

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Speaker 4: into the break in with the breakup of a marriage,

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Speaker 4: which is obviously more difficult than maybe like a fantasy

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Speaker 4: that you want to explore. But these are just it's

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Speaker 4: just showing that we are human and we grow and

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Speaker 4: we evolve and we change.

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Speaker 2: How important is communication even before you step into that

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Speaker 2: relationship or that marriage, Nikki, Because just to give an example,

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Speaker 2: we often see these scenarios where someone and let's use

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Speaker 2: an example of a guy who knows that they are gay,

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Speaker 2: but they get into a relationship with this woman because

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason matther, whether it's because he has been

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Speaker 2: pressured at home, maybe it's the church, maybe he himself

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Speaker 2: hasn't accepted themselves, and they enter into this relationship with

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Speaker 2: this woman and they get married, and then the kids,

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Speaker 2: and then five years down the la three years, they say, oh,

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Speaker 2: by the way, I'm gay, and the poor woman who

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Speaker 2: is also invested in this then feels betrayed because she

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Speaker 2: feels like as you said earlier, this relationship was built

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Speaker 2: on a lie. You knew exactly what you were interested in,

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Speaker 2: you never communicated that to me. You didn't give me

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Speaker 2: an option to say no or yes, this is what

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Speaker 2: I want to do. So I'm trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: how important then is communication because I would imagine if

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Speaker 2: we are so frank and transparent with each other, then

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Speaker 2: that allows the next person to decide whether they want

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Speaker 2: to do this or not. Otherwise they are gonna feel

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Speaker 2: betrayed when you leave them and you say, oh, this

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Speaker 2: is who I am when you've known all along.

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Speaker 4: Correct, So I think you know what you are talking

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Speaker 4: about is a slightly different satuation. That is a situation

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Speaker 4: where the person knows who they are, but they are

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Speaker 4: choosing to suppress it, and they are getting involved in

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Speaker 4: a relationship under.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not honest.

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Speaker 4: They are not communicating their truth, their authentic self. So

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Speaker 4: I think there there is dishonesty, and that's a very

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Speaker 4: different thing then then exploring your sexuality and not understanding it.

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Speaker 4: So I think when you enter into relationship, if you

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Speaker 4: know you gay and you're entering into a heterosexual relationship

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Speaker 4: and you don't discuss it, with your partner, you don't

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Speaker 4: name it, you know obviously you're not communicating obviously, then

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Speaker 4: that is based on a lie, and that is dishonest,

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Speaker 4: and a real relationship requires honesty and communication and trust.

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Speaker 4: So none of those are present in the instance you

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Speaker 4: have described. So I think that's something you've got to

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Speaker 4: be very careful if you are. If you are going

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Speaker 4: into that relationship knowing your truth and you're still going

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Speaker 4: against it because you think you can suppress it, I

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Speaker 4: think that's very unfair.

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Speaker 2: I so what if maybe you you have sense that

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Speaker 2: you are a little different, but you don't know, you

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Speaker 2: don't even have the language for it.

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Speaker 4: Correct Now that that is a very different conversation, because

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Speaker 4: that is what we were talking about, this expansion of

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Speaker 4: your sexuality, this suddenly realizing who you might be, who

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Speaker 4: you have evolved to be.

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Speaker 1: So I think you know that.

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Speaker 4: Is learn is the tension between authenticity and responsibility. How

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Speaker 4: authentic are you? How much you want to live authentically?

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Speaker 4: So you can't suppress who you are? And you've now

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Speaker 4: discovered this part of yourself, how do you bring this

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Speaker 4: into your relationship?

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Speaker 1: How do you share this with your partner?

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Speaker 4: And I think that's where we come back to communication

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Speaker 4: and honesty and kindness and compassion, and it's about how

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Speaker 4: you have that conversation because it's very hard to suppress

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Speaker 4: your truth once you know it, that's how you share

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Speaker 4: it and how you decide to go forward. I'm not

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Speaker 4: saying that it won't be hurtful, but those are the

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Speaker 4: key things that we have to be concerned about. Is

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Speaker 4: living authentically but not doing it in a way that

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Speaker 4: is nasty and unkind and untrue and debasing what you

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Speaker 4: have built.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want us to also reflect on the

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Speaker 2: on the other side of this, because there are also

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Speaker 2: instances where you will have someone who engages in, you know,

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Speaker 2: a gay same sex relationship, whether they're lesbian or they're gay,

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Speaker 2: that they're in this relationship and then one day they realize, actually,

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Speaker 2: I know I've been with you as a guy, but

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Speaker 2: now I want to be with a woman, even though

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Speaker 2: I've never been with one or I haven't been with

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Speaker 2: one in a long time. I mean that also becomes

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Speaker 2: because then in that case, this person didn't get into

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Speaker 2: the relationship to one day want to walk out. Is

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Speaker 2: they thought this is it for them, but now suddenly

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Speaker 2: they feel actually I want to be with that woman

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Speaker 2: and have kids with them. Is that something that you

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Speaker 2: also see as well, this abverse of because I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of cases we often hear.

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Speaker 3: About, we know about, we read about our more.

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Speaker 2: You know, people who realize while they're in heterosexual relationships

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Speaker 2: that oh, I'm gay. This is what I've picked up

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Speaker 2: about myself. And it's not often that you hear people

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Speaker 2: then who are in same sex relationships who then wake

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Speaker 2: up one day, even though those cases do exist, who've left,

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Speaker 2: whether they're they're lying to their same sex partners or not,

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Speaker 2: but they've decided I'm going to be with the opposite sex.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm as Saha. I don't often see that.

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Speaker 4: In fact, I've never seen that. I think the reality

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Speaker 4: is that, you know, people who are in the lgbt

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Speaker 4: Q plus one community, they they have had to explore

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Speaker 4: their sexuality and it's not easy, you know, it's not

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Speaker 4: easy not being part of the norm in inverted commas.

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Speaker 4: So when you have had to kind of take that route,

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Speaker 4: it's usually because that is your truth. It's a lot

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Speaker 4: easier to kind of go the heterosexual route and then realize, actually,

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Speaker 4: this isn't for me, so it doesn't our personally, haven't

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Speaker 4: really seen that often. I've seen people who have maybe

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Speaker 4: dabbled in a bit of bar sexuality, but you know,

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Speaker 4: that was more of an experimental stage, but not really

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Speaker 4: a complete change. I think it normally happens the other

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Speaker 4: way around, and it can be very very difficult and

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Speaker 4: very very hard to have these conversations and to be

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Speaker 4: able to live your truth but without kind of blowing

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Speaker 4: up your whole life and making the other person feel

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Speaker 4: like their whole life was a lie. And I think

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Speaker 4: that's where it is such a difficult topic, because you

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Speaker 4: know your decisions impact on your partner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you say to someone listening to us

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Speaker 2: now and they're in this very situation. You know, they're

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Speaker 2: married to this man, but they know that, you know,

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Speaker 2: they would love to be with a woman. They know

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Speaker 2: that that's where they would really be happy. Oh, this

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Speaker 2: guy who's listening to us, who's married to this woman,

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Speaker 2: and they care about their spouses. They do, They've built

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Speaker 2: wonderful families with them, but there's a yearning because they

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Speaker 2: can see that there's something outside of this that would

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Speaker 2: fulfill me completely, and they don't know how to balance it.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to betray my spouse. I love my family,

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Speaker 2: but I also want to be completely fulfilled and I

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Speaker 2: yearn for that fulfillment. What do you advise them to do?

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Speaker 2: How do they approach this?

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Speaker 4: So I think you know, in these situations, silence is

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Speaker 4: usually very, very damaging. People delay the conversation because they're

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Speaker 4: afraid of hurting their partner blowing up their life. But

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Speaker 4: the problem with this is silence creates emotional distance, It

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Speaker 4: creates confusion, often resentment or acting out, and the thing

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Speaker 4: that you're trying to avoid the pain for your partner

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Speaker 4: becomes much more prolonged and much more damaging. So I

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Speaker 4: think the truth, when delivered with care, although it may hurt,

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Speaker 4: it creates clarity. And clarity is what allows couples to

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Speaker 4: make conscious decisions. It empowers you to decide what do

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Speaker 4: we do? Where do we go from here? And so

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Speaker 4: I think, although it can be so so difficult, pretending

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Speaker 4: this this isn't there is not going to work in

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Speaker 4: the long term. You need to start having those You

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Speaker 4: need to have those conversations, and you need to do

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Speaker 4: it in a way that is the least hurtful.

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Speaker 1: I think not blame. Blame.

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Speaker 4: We must avoid it's not you, it's I have been

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Speaker 4: having these feelings.

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Speaker 1: I have found.

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Speaker 4: My sexuality has evolved, my sexuality has changed. I found

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Speaker 4: out new things about myself. Can we go forward together

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Speaker 4: in some kind of a new way.

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Speaker 1: Can we Can we use.

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Speaker 4: What I've now discovered and still proceed in the marriage

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Speaker 4: or do we need to end the marriage? So I think,

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Speaker 4: I think communication again. It comes down to communication. Communication, communication.

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Speaker 4: It's how you talk about things. And also it's the timing,

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Speaker 4: the tone, the turf. Don't do it in the bedroom,

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Speaker 4: you know, making the person feel less than you know.

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Speaker 4: Do it perhaps walking in nature, across the table when

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Speaker 4: no one is in a rush, and definitely talk about

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Speaker 4: how you feel, not blaming it on the other partner.

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Speaker 4: You don't fulfill me, you don't make me feel you know,

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Speaker 4: sexually awakened. It's got to be about how you feel

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Speaker 4: so that the other person can move forward.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: It's twenty four minutes after eleven old clock. I see

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Speaker 2: your what's ups coming through? Will start with them after.

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Speaker 1: The break, relationship issues, relationship talk on.

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Speaker 2: Seven twenty seven minutes after eleven otlock on our relationship

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Speaker 2: feature this morning, we're talking about how you navigate sexuality

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Speaker 2: within relationships.

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Speaker 3: Let's go to your WhatsApps Midday Clement and your guest there.

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Speaker 5: My take on this issue is not like you guys

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Speaker 5: have already I just mentioned now you know the issue

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Speaker 5: of you know, asking, how do you navigate it when

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Speaker 5: your partner walks up to you and say, I tell

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Speaker 5: you they're now attracted to the opposite sex. I really

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Speaker 5: don't think there's anything to navigate because when they get

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Speaker 5: into the relationship, it's either they are gay or lesbian

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Speaker 5: or they are straight. So if they were having feelings

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Speaker 5: for opposite same sex and they still kept quiet and

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Speaker 5: you know, getting too marriage with you and too long

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Speaker 5: relationship with you, and then ten years down the land

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Speaker 5: of I feel down the land they said, oh, by

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Speaker 5: the way, I have I do have a feeling for

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Speaker 5: same sex.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't think it's fair.

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Speaker 5: And then I don't think there's anything there to learn

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Speaker 5: how to navigate, because the only way to handle the

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Speaker 5: situation is to just you know, go our separate ways.

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Speaker 5: And that's just my take on this. Yeah, poor from

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Speaker 5: Kempton Park, I sure, as always, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you mine for your contribution. I mean, Nikki,

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Speaker 2: you said earlier and the solution is not always to

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Speaker 2: just end things you were saying earlier.

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Speaker 3: Open the conversation.

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Speaker 2: If you come and you say, this is what I'm

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Speaker 2: picking up, this is what I am feeling, you know,

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Speaker 2: this is what my position is now in my sexuality.

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Speaker 2: Open the conversation with your partner and involve them in

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Speaker 2: whatever decision. Then you guys are going to make as

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Speaker 2: opposed to just think this is going to end in

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Speaker 2: the relationship or the marriage ending.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I mean, I think we need to redefine what

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Speaker 4: does success in a relationship mean. You know, we've been

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Speaker 4: conditioned to believe that a successful relationship is one that

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Speaker 4: lasts forever in the original form, But in reality, relationships

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Speaker 4: are living systems. They grow, they evolve, or at least

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Speaker 4: they actually should. So I think it's important to remember

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Speaker 4: that if you are the partner who's been told that

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Speaker 4: they're you know, say your husband says I'm gay, it's

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Speaker 4: not about failure as a part and it's about a

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Speaker 4: shift in identity or awareness, and it's not because of you.

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Speaker 4: Although it still hurts, and both things can be true,

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Speaker 4: it's not personal and it still feels deeply personal, But

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Speaker 4: I think it doesn't automatically mean that your entire relationship

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Speaker 4: was a lie. It doesn't mean that. It means that

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Speaker 4: something has changed and come into your awareness, and now

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Speaker 4: how do you deal with the subject.

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Speaker 1: What do you do?

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Speaker 4: Some people are okay with living with no sex or

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Speaker 4: maybe opening up the relationship. Usually, especially when the person

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Speaker 4: is gay, it does require a breakup. But sometimes I

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Speaker 4: found that the party that was say that injured I'm

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Speaker 4: putting inverted commas. The person whose partner left them, they

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Speaker 4: are forced into a sexual awakening of their own because

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Speaker 4: their partner has kind of left them.

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Speaker 1: They start to think about what about, what do they want?

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Speaker 4: What's their sexuality? How can their sexuality evolve? And I'm

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Speaker 4: not necessarily saying they also become gay or realize they gay.

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Speaker 4: I'm just saying that maybe they weren't so happy in

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Speaker 4: their sexual relationship and now they can choose what they want,

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Speaker 4: and in a new relationship they often find an amazing

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Speaker 4: kind of rebirth, a reinvention of their own sexuality because

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Speaker 4: what they thought was what all there is is now

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Speaker 4: not all there is, and they've kind of found themselves

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Speaker 4: in a new relationship. So sometimes all is well that

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Speaker 4: ends well, even though it often doesn't feel like that

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Speaker 4: at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right after the latest and our witness use headlines,

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Speaker 2: you will go to more of your cause and what's

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Speaker 2: up voice notes. It's eleventh thirty.

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Speaker 1: Twoship issues, relationship talk on seven or two.

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Speaker 2: It's to me these three minutes now before twelfth o clock,

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Speaker 2: we're in conversation with Nicki Brevick, who's a sexual wellness coach.

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Speaker 2: As we continue our discussion around navigating sexuality within relationships.

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Speaker 2: Have you found yourself in a heterosexual relationship where you

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Speaker 2: had to tell your partner about your sexuality, you had

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Speaker 2: to come clean, or maybe you were on the receiving end,

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Speaker 2: maybe it was your husband or your wife or your

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Speaker 2: partner who told you about their sexuality. How did you

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Speaker 2: navigate that scenario? And in cases where as Nicki said,

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Speaker 2: you know she has not seen this, but perhaps it's happened,

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Speaker 2: you know, the case where someone has been in a

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Speaker 2: same sex relationship and now is in a heterosexual relationship.

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Speaker 2: How did you navigate that? Were you able to find

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Speaker 2: common ground with your partner or it ended up in

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Speaker 2: betrayal in the end of the relationship.

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Speaker 3: You can call us send us a what's up? Voice note?

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Speaker 2: Let's start with your voice notes on seven two seven

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Speaker 2: two and seven o two.

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Speaker 6: Hello, Look, Clement, this is quite a sensitive issue a

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Speaker 6: friend of mine. It isn't all advice from from where

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Speaker 6: I'm sitting from the experience my friend had.

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Speaker 3: Especially if you are.

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Speaker 6: In a heterosexual relationship and you discover that, okay, you

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Speaker 6: might be attracted to a guy, and advice you just

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Speaker 6: you know, you quietly break up and and move on.

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Speaker 6: Because of my friend once opened up to the girlfriend.

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Speaker 6: And that is the way I feel, and I want,

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Speaker 6: you know, how I want to end this. Did the

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Speaker 6: girl not go? And you know, just yeah, she was

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Speaker 6: so message. She told the family and this girl was

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Speaker 6: not even ready to come out. It was just bad.

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Speaker 6: I just wish the guy didn't even tell the girl.

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Speaker 6: She was so bitter about it, and she made it,

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Speaker 6: she made she made it hell for him.

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Speaker 3: Prince.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the instances are like the ethnic you

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Speaker 2: where someone may feel may feel betrayed, or they may feel,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, why are you only telling me this?

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Speaker 2: Now you probably knew and we've built this entire thing.

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Speaker 2: I've invested so much in this thing, and you're telling

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Speaker 2: me this. So those betrayals do exist. But to a

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Speaker 2: point where you even go to the peasants family and

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Speaker 2: you start exposing them there and saying this is what

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Speaker 2: this person does. There are cases like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's obviously extremely difficult for a person

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Speaker 4: to receive news that their partner is gay because it

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Speaker 4: does call into question your whole relationship and it's you know,

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Speaker 4: it's very very hard to take that because you know,

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Speaker 4: in fairness to this woman, she had planned her whole

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Speaker 4: life with him. She thought they had a future together,

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Speaker 4: and you know, it's very very hard to kind of

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Speaker 4: take that news.

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Speaker 1: But silence is also not an option.

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Speaker 4: I mean, this guy couldn't have just carried on staying

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Speaker 4: in that relationship.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I understand she acts in and hurt.

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Speaker 4: I suppose the family would have found out eventually, and

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Speaker 4: she probably needed.

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Speaker 1: Support and help.

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Speaker 4: You know, what does she do her partner's gay and

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Speaker 4: does she might feel that he doesn't want her anymore?

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Speaker 4: And it is a very very difficult and sensitive topic

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Speaker 4: and it can be very very hurtful, but not with intention.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the thing.

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Speaker 4: You know, when you are exploring your sexuality and your

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Speaker 4: authentic self has to come out, it's not because you

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Speaker 4: want to hurt the partner, and I think that's why

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Speaker 4: you just have to deal with it.

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Speaker 1: In such.

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Speaker 4: A very very compassionate, kind caring way.

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Speaker 1: But the only way out is through.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes time needs a lot of time for the person

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Speaker 4: who's been hurt to get over it and to move on.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I've got a number of messages that have come through, Nikki,

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Speaker 2: so I want us to just go through them. On

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Speaker 2: the What's Up line, the first one says, Hi Clement

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Speaker 2: and Team. I once dated a guy who was basically

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Speaker 2: discovering himself. He later asked for a meeting with my

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Speaker 2: family as we had been together for six months and

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Speaker 2: my family knew him, so he came and told us

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Speaker 2: that he is gay and can no longer continue with

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Speaker 2: the relationship. Honestly, I was hurt because we had dreams

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Speaker 2: and things we wanted to achieve together. So when he

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Speaker 2: dropped the show, when he dropped the bomb, I think

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Speaker 2: that's what he meant. I felt like our plans were

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Speaker 2: also crushed. Moving on was really tough, but I still

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Speaker 2: appreciate his honesty to this day.

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Speaker 4: Exactly that's exactly what we were saying, and I think

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Speaker 4: that that caller put it so well and is grateful

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Speaker 4: eventually for the truth.

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Speaker 2: Another one says, hello, Clement, I'm a gay guy. I

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Speaker 2: met this guy a few years back, and he had

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Speaker 2: a girlfriend and a child, and he disclosed all that upfront.

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Speaker 2: But he said that he's not sure about his sexuality,

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Speaker 2: and he was handsome and all that he chummed me.

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Speaker 3: I fell for him.

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Speaker 2: It turns out he wasn't really ready to venture into

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Speaker 2: being bisexual. It ended up badly and almost it almost

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Speaker 2: destroyed me, especially emotionally. It took me years to forgive

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Speaker 2: myself and move on. Another one says, Clement, I'm battling

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Speaker 2: with this matter. I don't know if I'm gay or bisexual.

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Speaker 2: I enjoyed sex with both, of course, with guys in hiding,

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Speaker 2: I enjoy just dominating another man. Could it be deep

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Speaker 2: psychological issue? That's a question that Anonymous is raising there.

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Speaker 2: Anonimus is not really sharing with us whether you know

440
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: he's in a relationship perhaps with women and then secretly

441
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: also being with men and trying to navigate that and

442
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 2: balancing it, like do you want to be with this

443
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 2: or that? Or do you do you actually want to

444
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: do both? But those are some of the messages that

445
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: have come through in some cases, Nikki, You know, people

446
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 2: get to a point where they say, Okay, if this

447
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: is a scenario we're faced with, let's consider an open relationship.

448
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: What should couples carefully, carefully think through before going down

449
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: this specific route of open relationships?

450
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: So I think you know.

451
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 4: When it's when couples are navigating this if if, if

452
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 4: it's a gay person, the open relationship will not necessarily

453
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 4: it's basically changing the form of the relationship. So I

454
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 4: think I think like any open relationship, it requires communicationation

455
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 4: and honesty and trust, and those are very important things

456
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 4: because without them you cannot have any relationship, never mind

457
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 4: an open relationship. But it's about changing the form of

458
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 4: the relationship. Are you willing to stay in a relationship

459
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 4: that you're not going to have sex with the person?

460
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 4: I think when it's a bisexual, When it comes to bisexuality,

461
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 4: the conversation is more nuanced because there you can still

462
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 4: kind of have sex in the relationship.

463
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 1: But I think it's about making agreements.

464
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 4: Can your relationship accommodate the truth within its boundaries? And

465
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 4: can you change the form of your relationship? And do

466
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 4: you want to or do you want to find someone

467
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 4: else move out. As we said earlier, a relationship doesn't

468
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 4: have to be forever. Sometimes they're not meant to be forever.

469
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 4: So I think whatever relationship you choose, it needs to

470
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 4: be with honest and open communication and choosing together how

471
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 4: you want to go forward with honesty, because I think

472
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 4: like that one listener who who who wrote in you

473
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 4: know it was the dishonesty that is so so rarenous

474
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 4: to a relationship and to yourself. You know, that's what

475
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 4: cuts us. Even though the truth is difficult at the beginning.

476
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 4: Once we can overcome that and we realize it's not

477
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 4: about us, then the truth sets us free, you know.

478
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 4: So I think I think it's all about communication.

479
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, sow because of course.

480
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: That the instances where some some some couples will want

481
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: to explore. Maybe one person in that relationship wants to

482
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: explore whenever they start feeling like, oh, I'm navigating your

483
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: sexualities sener dynamic here, So how can couples balance, yes,

484
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: giving space for exploration while still maintaining honesty and boundaries

485
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: in the relationship. And I know you spoke a lot

486
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: about communications, so I'm assuming here that don't go explore

487
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: when you haven't had a conversation with it with your partner,

488
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: because then it stops being honest correct.

489
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 4: Then it's about dishonesty and duplicity, and that's only going

490
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 4: to lead to hurtfullness. But on the other hand, you

491
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 4: also have to be honest with yourself and truthful with yourself.

492
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 4: So it's just it's such a difficult conversation that both

493
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,719
Speaker 4: parties are often hurt. But I think with time like

494
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 4: that one listener who wrote in, I think eventually, if

495
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 4: you are honest and you handle it with dignity and kindness,

496
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 4: when you kind of get to the end, both parties

497
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 4: are in a better possession. Because suppressing your sexuality is

498
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 4: also not an answer in a relationship.

499
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: When this is not true to who you are, that's

500
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: also not an answer.

501
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 3: That.

502
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: There's another message difficult from anonymous Nikki who says, Hei Clerment,

503
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: I am almost fifty years old and I've been with

504
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: my husband for twenty four years now, and I just

505
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: can't ignore my attraction to women anymore. I acted on it.

506
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 2: I guess I wanted to see if I really am

507
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: attracted to women or is it just a phase. But

508
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: it's definitely not a phase, and now I'm living a

509
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: double life and a balancing act that takes so much

510
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: from me, and it's so tiring. I have young kids,

511
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 2: and I don't want to disrupt their lives by coming out, well,

512
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: at least not now. And I'm very much still in

513
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 2: love and attracted to their father. That's a message they're

514
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: coming from Anonymous. I mean, it's so complex because they

515
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: are kids here that are involved. You don't want to

516
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: hurt them. You're still also in love with their father.

517
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: Then there's this attraction to women that you just can't

518
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: shake off.

519
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's that's that is difficult, and you know

520
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 4: that that shows how she hasn't been able to silence

521
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 4: her truth. But she's chosen to be unfaithful, and she

522
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: could choose to rather be honest. We don't know how

523
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 4: her partner, how her husband might take that. Perhaps he

524
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 4: would be open to opening up their marriage, to allowing

525
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 4: a third party in. We don't know because she hasn't

526
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 4: spoken to him about it. But the problem is her

527
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 4: dishonesty here, as she says, is keeping her exhausted, keeping her,

528
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 4: you know, kind of caged in her own dishonesty.

529
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: And I think that's where we go back to that hole.

530
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 4: Let's be honest, trying, try and be honest with your

531
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 4: partner so that you can and perhaps find a new

532
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 4: way to evolve in that particular relationship.

533
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: You never know it could really work.

534
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 4: You just don't know because she hasn't had the conversation

535
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 4: with the father of her kids.

536
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, it's going up to ten minutes now

537
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: before twelve out clock. We'll wrap up with more messages

538
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: after the break relationship issues, relationship talk on seven two.

539
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 3: Eight minutes before twelfth oatlock.

540
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: We've been having a conversation this morning on our relationship

541
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: feature about navigating issues of sexuality in relationships in marriages

542
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: as well. And thank you so much for just sharing

543
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: what your experiences are. I can only imagine how difficult

544
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 2: it is to actually admit it to yourself and also

545
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: be vulnerable enough to share your story with us, So

546
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: I truly appreciate it.

547
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: Nikki.

548
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: We are going to wrap up now the conversation. There

549
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: was a question that came earlier about therapy. Would you

550
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: recommend therapy in these situations and do you think individual

551
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: therapy works or is it more a couple's therapy or

552
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: must the person be brave enough to start that conversation

553
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: with their partner, or can you bring in a third

554
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 2: party to facilitate that chat, because sometimes people will feel

555
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 2: a bit uncomfortable hearing it for the first time in

556
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 2: front of somebody else.

557
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know, therapy is always helpful. I

558
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 4: certainly think for establishing what you what you need. For

559
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 4: the person who is exploring their sexuality and coming to

560
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 4: terms with this massive change that they maybe didn't realize

561
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 4: was within them, obviously therapy is very very helpful for them.

562
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 4: Relationship therapy, you know, that's not really going to help

563
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 4: because if the one, if the one is gay and

564
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 4: ones to leave the relationship, then no, with regards to

565
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 4: a bisexual person, then then it does then it could help.

566
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: It could help establishing.

567
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 4: A new form of marriage, so a change in the

568
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 4: system that you've chosen, So that can definitely help. But

569
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 4: I mean, are therapies of I mean, I'm a big

570
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 4: fan of therapy, so it can definitely help. Whether you

571
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 4: want to be telling your partner that you are gay

572
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 4: in front of the therapist for the first time, you know,

573
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 4: that's something you have to judge. You've got to know

574
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 4: your relationship. I think you can't avoid pain, but you

575
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 4: can move through it with integrity. And I think that's

576
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 4: how you choose to do that and the best way

577
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 4: forward for you. You need to know that because you've

578
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 4: been the person in that relationship, and how do you

579
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 4: change in a relationship?

580
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: How do you handle the change?

581
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 4: A relationship doesn't fail because of the truth, but because

582
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 4: the truth.

583
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: Doesn't have some way to land.

584
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 4: And I think we just all need to try and

585
00:35:54,160 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 4: be better and keep growing and keep broadening ourselves that

586
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 4: we can. We can bob and weave with what life

587
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 4: life stands us, and that sexuality in particular, something that

588
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 4: we don't we don't look at expanding. And I think

589
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 4: that's where my passion is is making people look at

590
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 4: their sexuality, not just their orientation, but you know, how

591
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 4: to enhance their lives through their sexuality and embrace every

592
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 4: part of it. And sometimes it's difficult, and sometimes it

593
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 4: leads to great rewards.

594
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: What are some of the key questions couples must ask

595
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: themselves when when deciding whether to stay together part ways

596
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 2: or when deciding what decision really to take, what next

597
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: step to take?

598
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 4: So I think I think you know that again is communication.

599
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 4: Some people choose monogamy and honor their attraction internally, so

600
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 4: you know, in other words, I'm still attracted to the

601
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 4: other people, but i will stay monogamous to you. I

602
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 4: think if you gave, that's extremely difficult because then you

603
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 4: are actually completely suppressing your sexuality. But if you bisexual,

604
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 4: you know you are still attracted to your partner.

605
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: So perhaps that is a choice.

606
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 4: You could renegotiate your boundaries, perhaps have an open relationship.

607
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 4: Like you said earlier, some realize that their needs are

608
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 4: just no longer compatible, and as we said earlier, that

609
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 4: some not all relationships are created for forever and that

610
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 4: we need to move on. So I think this is

611
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 4: just requires this open, honest communication. I don't think you

612
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 4: need to rush it. I think the first conversation should

613
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 4: be slow. These are the feelings I'm having. How do

614
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 4: we deal with this? Is there somewhere we can go

615
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 4: with this? Let the other person ruminates over it, and

616
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 4: I think no decision needs to be made in the

617
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 4: first conversation. I think we need to slow down and

618
00:37:58,640 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 4: move in that way.

619
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 3: Take your time correct.

620
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for always being so gracious and

621
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: guiding us through these complex situations.

622
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 3: I really appreciate your time. Can wait to chat to

623
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 3: you again.

624
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank thank you. Clement.

625
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 4: Can I ask your followers to follow me on Instagram?

626
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 4: Let's ask dot NICKI, n I, c K I and

627
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 4: I'm on all the social platforms, but particularly Instagram, and

628
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 4: I give lots of tips and advice and sex education

629
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 4: that we all need and all these topics that we

630
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 4: discussed come up.

631
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: So please follow me.

632
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 4: And I've got a book coming out in June, Exponential,

633
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 4: so hopefully you'll come with Clement.

634
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a launch in Jovic.

635
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 3: I'll definitely be there.

636
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you, thank you you