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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two. Let's walk at all.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

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Speaker 2: by Abscess CIB proud host of the Africa Impact Matters

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Speaker 2: series podcast. ABS for is an authorized FSB and registered

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Speaker 2: credit provider. Good evening, I'm Stephen Curtis eight minutes after six.

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Speaker 2: Good to have you along with us on The Money

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Speaker 2: Show tonight. One of those days where sends. This morning,

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Speaker 2: the Stock Exchange News Service was just results after resulting.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot more to come. There's the Selsey listing

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Speaker 2: on the JC later this week on Thursday. The JC

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Speaker 2: sending out invitations and all the rest for that today.

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Speaker 2: But lots of results from African Bank will speak to

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Speaker 2: their CEO, Kennedy Bungani in just a moment and Nicka Morey,

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Speaker 2: the chief financial officer at naspass and process. A lot

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Speaker 2: going on around take a lot, it would seem Richard Friedland,

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Speaker 2: the Netcare CEO, you would think that private healthcare is

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Speaker 2: in a sort of dangerous spot at the moment. Lots

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Speaker 2: of talk about the NHI, but from a financial point

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Speaker 2: of view, they're doing quite nicely. I didn't realize that

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Speaker 2: surgery was over fifty percent of their revenue. And if

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Speaker 2: you think about just the sheer number of people involved

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Speaker 2: in any kind of procedure that requires surgery, well, I

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Speaker 2: suppose it does make sense. Now we'll also speak to

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Speaker 2: PPC strong interim results from them. We saw numbers coming

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Speaker 2: through from STATSSA a couple of weeks ago, last week perhaps,

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Speaker 2: but in fact there were more people being employed in

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Speaker 2: the construction area and the construction sector. Well, just perhaps

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Speaker 2: let's hope that something is shifting there and PPC would

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Speaker 2: be in a good position to tell us. And then

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Speaker 2: we'll check in with a fishing industry as well. The

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Speaker 2: CEO at Oceana Neville brink they got hit by fish

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Speaker 2: oil prices which dropped or because of something that was

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Speaker 2: happening off the coast of Peru. It just reminds you

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Speaker 2: of how everything is interconnected. And if the G twenty

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Speaker 2: didn't remind you of that, well, I suppose nothing will

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Speaker 2: good to hear from you tonight. O double one DOAA

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Speaker 2: three seven two two one four four six O five

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Speaker 2: sixty seven and voice it's on seven two seven oh

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Speaker 2: two one seven oh two. Just thinking of the G

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Speaker 2: twenty and I had a good time there. I must

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Speaker 2: just say talking to you, but also just being there

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Speaker 2: a question that for me came out of it and

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Speaker 2: it is a contentious question deliberately so we saw the

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Speaker 2: president presiding over it. Apart from Sara Romo Pausa, which

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Speaker 2: other South African would you have liked to see presiding

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Speaker 2: over an international summit like that and representing South Africa?

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Speaker 2: Can be a politician, can be someone from any sector,

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Speaker 2: can be from any party. Whatever it is, Which other

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Speaker 2: South African do you think would have the She's probably

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Speaker 2: gonna have to use the word gravitas, but would have

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Speaker 2: the whatever it is that you think would be necessary

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Speaker 2: to host a summit like that? Seven two seven oh

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Speaker 2: two one seven two eleven after.

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Speaker 3: Six The Loney Show with Stephen Krudis Live on ninety

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Speaker 3: two point seven and one six FM, streaming on the

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Speaker 3: Prime Media Plus NAP.

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Speaker 1: And TV channel eight five.

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Speaker 2: Six eleven after six. Well African Bank reporting quite strong

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Speaker 2: results in terms of numbers of customers. Their interest income

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Speaker 2: was up four percent, their non interesting income was up

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Speaker 2: thirty nine percent. More people are using It's My World

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Speaker 2: and credit card accounts. The group CEO of African Bank

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Speaker 2: is Kennedy Bongane Kennedy, good evening. You have six point

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Speaker 2: three million customers now, five years ago it was just

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Speaker 2: one point two million customers. I mean, that's a huge jump.

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Speaker 2: I'm presuming your growth is in line with expectations or

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Speaker 2: even exceeded.

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Speaker 4: That it's im intense for having us tonight and or

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Speaker 4: he's a delight to talk to you. Yes, I mean them,

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Speaker 4: and these numbers do reflect course better than we had foecusted.

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Speaker 4: We are ahead of blend with respect to some significant deliverables.

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Speaker 4: We thought you would be around five million customers at

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Speaker 4: the time, and that was a revised number from three

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Speaker 4: point five million. So at six point three million is

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Speaker 4: better than plan. But you're absolutely correct. The pivot in

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Speaker 4: these numbers is how the plan to move from just

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Speaker 4: being a monoline retail lender, an unsecured lender, which is

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Speaker 4: what we wear for almost two and a half decades,

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Speaker 4: into being a fully flashed bank is taking shape and

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Speaker 4: is coming through very nicely, with a thirty nine percent

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Speaker 4: in rise in an interest income seven point six billion

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Speaker 4: of total net income in a year where we deliberately

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Speaker 4: actually muted unsecured retail lending course.

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Speaker 2: I noticed that your operating expenses arising, your cost income

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Speaker 2: ratios at sixty four percent. I realized you're spending a

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Speaker 2: lot getting things going to become a I think the

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Speaker 2: phrase he use was fully flated bank. Are you expecting

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Speaker 2: that to still rise? It'll cost more as you roll

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Speaker 2: out more services.

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Speaker 4: No, no, we don't expect it to continue because remember

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Speaker 4: how unique this reporting period was. We received in this

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Speaker 4: year the approvals and incorporated our position of SALESPAN Capital

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Speaker 4: Equipment finance, of Suspin commercial property finance. We bought capabilities

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Speaker 4: into personal home loan solution with our position of most

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Speaker 4: of Africa direct businesses. It is also a year of

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Speaker 4: significant investment in US. You've seen our IT rise by

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Speaker 4: twenty five percent year and yeah, you can't sustain that

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Speaker 4: every year. It's not something that is normal. It is

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Speaker 4: one sort of reflecting these acquisitions and interclation that we're

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Speaker 4: doing in this particular year is ocquisitions we're doing to

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Speaker 4: expand capabilities that enable us to really become this scalable,

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Speaker 4: diversified and sustainable bank for personal business and commercial customers

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Speaker 4: in the Midland bottom of the pyramid. In line with

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Speaker 4: our sense of purples as a bank for the for

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Speaker 4: the for the middle of the of the pyramid. And

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Speaker 4: so in the first half when I spoke to you,

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Speaker 4: our operational our opex was up sixteen percent, and I

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Speaker 4: indicated that they are major one offs. We are now

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Speaker 4: up eleven percent for twelve months, reflecting the point of

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Speaker 4: making that the one so offs in the first half

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Speaker 4: are being managed out, and we are likely to now

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Speaker 4: have an opportunity to Having expanded our customer franchise this

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Speaker 4: much and expanded our capabilities, we have an opportunity to

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Speaker 4: extract value in line with the key deliverables that we

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Speaker 4: think I needed to have a compelling investor proposition for

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Speaker 4: our listing.

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Speaker 2: So, Kennedy, it's interesting you're exceeding your expectations quite dramatically.

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Speaker 2: One of your competitors, also a new bank, broke even

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Speaker 2: earlier than expected. I realized more people have more bank

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Speaker 2: accounts with more institutions than before. A lot of people

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Speaker 2: used to have with just one bank. Now they have

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Speaker 2: lots more accounts with lots more people. So that's fine,

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Speaker 2: that's good for you, it's good for other new banks,

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Speaker 2: but doesn't mean that you're all getting as much revenue

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Speaker 2: per customer as you did in the past, and I

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Speaker 2: would imagine the answer to that is no.

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Speaker 4: The answer is actually yes because Ele mean, in my

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Speaker 4: case you pointed it out before I even did that.

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Speaker 4: We didn't grow ANII, which been the biggest business revenue

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Speaker 4: and a for African bank for over to a half decades.

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Speaker 4: We grew something that was not there four years ago

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Speaker 4: when I started. Two point one billion brands of non

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Speaker 4: interest income came from transsecting accounts, transcepting customers, and and

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Speaker 4: and and and and and and so that shows that

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Speaker 4: you can actually drive new wallet from customers when your

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Speaker 4: proposition is correct. What I think has happened in in

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Speaker 4: in is almost thirty years of being in banking, is

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Speaker 4: that the South African banking customer has really wisened up

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Speaker 4: and it's smart about what they pay for from whom

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Speaker 4: in the in their financial services. Jenny and and and

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Speaker 4: and and and are very clear you've got to value

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Speaker 4: for them to pay you for that for that service.

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Speaker 4: And if you count all of our customers with my

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Speaker 4: peers who are running banks, whom I think South Africa

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Speaker 4: has got to hundred million people, it doesn't. It just

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Speaker 4: has you and I who actually have the more than

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Speaker 4: one benkard in our wallet and who use those bank

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Speaker 4: services where they are best.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy Bonani, thanks very much. Indeed, groups heer of African

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Speaker 2: banks seventeen after.

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Speaker 3: Six seven Stephen, that's on the Money Show six to

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Speaker 3: eight pm.

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Speaker 2: NASPAS are reporting more strong growth in its companies across Europe,

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Speaker 2: Latin America and India. It says it's been able to

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Speaker 2: increase revenue from e commerce by twenty one percent in

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Speaker 2: the six months to the end of September. A big

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Speaker 2: standouts as part of that is take a Lot. It's

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Speaker 2: auder growth there up by sixteen percent, revenue up by

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Speaker 2: thirty two percent. Nico More is the group chief financial

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Speaker 2: Officer for the NASPAS and Process Group Pigo. Good evening.

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Speaker 2: You've been buying many companies. You've been essentially getting them

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Speaker 2: to work together. You've been building senergies, you're building market share.

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Speaker 2: To look at your group results as a whole, it

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Speaker 2: seems you're beginning to see the fruits of those investments.

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Speaker 5: Yes, thank you, Stephen. I think our ecosystem strategy is

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Speaker 5: starting to deliver real strong results.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 5: The highlights for me really the strong growth were achieving

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Speaker 5: in Latin America through our I Food business that grew

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Speaker 5: thirty five percent, but also our ex in Europe seventeen

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Speaker 5: percent growth, and even in India, I'll buy you fintech

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Speaker 5: business actually you know, improve their results meaningfully. So indeed

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Speaker 5: we are starting to deliver on many of the ambitions

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Speaker 5: that we've set out to the market in the last year.

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Speaker 2: You say there's a lot of headroom for growth in Europe,

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Speaker 2: I mean it's a rich market, huge growth potential, quite

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Speaker 2: a long way to go, I would imagine, yes, I.

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Speaker 5: Think in in Europe, you know, our key focus there.

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Speaker 5: We just sort of in the last couple of weeks

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Speaker 5: complete that acquisition of Just Eat Takeaway, which is a

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Speaker 5: food delivery business mainly focused in the UK as well

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Speaker 5: as Germany Benelux countries. A very strong brand, very strong

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Speaker 5: market positions, but it's not a business that's growing at

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Speaker 5: the moment. But I think what we want to do

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Speaker 5: is we want to firstly bring the learnings from what

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Speaker 5: we've our successes in I Food in Latin America, but

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Speaker 5: also the wider ecosystem in terms of our AI investments

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Speaker 5: and initiatives that we have to the four too. Also

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Speaker 5: the newer acquisitions in the portfolio like just In Takeaway.

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Speaker 5: Others also include Las Centrale, which we also completed in

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Speaker 5: the just in the recent weeks, which is in France,

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Speaker 5: a classifieds business focusing on motor vehicles. That's an area

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Speaker 5: that we really know well. I've had very good results

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Speaker 5: in the past.

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Speaker 2: In particular here in South Africa. To take a lot

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Speaker 2: you describe their results as a step change. Is it

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Speaker 2: just greater acceptance of buying things online? There's something else

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Speaker 2: changed that take a Lot to get so much more revenue,

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Speaker 2: so much more volume through it.

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Speaker 5: I think there is the element of overall e commerce

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Speaker 5: graph in the in the economy, so that part of

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Speaker 5: the market is clearly going faster than sort of the

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Speaker 5: offline part. But I think Tycolots has executed a lot

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Speaker 5: better in the in the last world. So the overall

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Speaker 5: top line GMB graph of sixteen percent has been I

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Speaker 5: think in this environment quite stellar. I think Tyclot is

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Speaker 5: also benefiting from the support from the group. But we

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Speaker 5: also want to sort of do more. You know, you know,

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Speaker 5: if if Tychlot was a business on its own, you know,

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Speaker 5: that's that's always more difficult. But if we can shed

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Speaker 5: technology learnings HIGHI initiatives across the portfolio. It's all of

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Speaker 5: a sudden much bigger player and resources to that that

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Speaker 5: we can allocate to it at at marginal cost which

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Speaker 5: really work with help not just tykeo Lot but all

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Speaker 5: the various businesses in the broader portfolio. So scale ultimately

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Speaker 5: from Prices and aspats are all does matter.

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Speaker 7: Well.

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Speaker 2: Talking of scale and it mattering, I mean Amazon surely

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Speaker 2: is sort of getting into second or third year in

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Speaker 2: South Africa. Do you worry they're going to pose at

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Speaker 2: some points from competition to you in South Africa?

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Speaker 5: Amazon is a is a formidable global competitor, so we

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Speaker 5: need to respect that. I think so far we have,

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Speaker 5: we've done well, we can. We will continue on this

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Speaker 5: path and Tycho dot Ca can you know count on

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Speaker 5: a continued support from from Prices and naspas to help

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Speaker 5: them in in the fight.

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Speaker 2: You talk about your AI lab in Europe and like

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Speaker 2: everyone else, you're putting a lot of money there. How

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Speaker 2: is AI changing the e commerce business the process of

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Speaker 2: ordering something? I suppose it changes the process of selecting

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Speaker 2: something and getting it delivered to your door.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think AI is touching so many elements across

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Speaker 5: these so we're focusing on a few elements. Firstly, we're

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Speaker 5: deploying a lot more agents across our business. We now

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Speaker 5: have more than twenty thousand active agents and that's helping

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Speaker 5: from customer support to third party seller support as a

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Speaker 5: recommendation engine for our customers. It's really quite broad. And

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Speaker 5: then the second part is we're using a large language

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Speaker 5: models and we're actually training that for the vast amount

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Speaker 5: of data that we have to essentially create commerce models.

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Speaker 5: That's essentially a personalized seeing that the how of e commerce.

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Speaker 5: So that's improving search, promotions, cr aspects, even things like

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Speaker 5: just optimizing your advertising elements across your platforms. So it

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Speaker 5: is quite pervasive and broad based for us. We want

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Speaker 5: to improve every single element. I don't think there's an

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Speaker 5: aspect of our business that we can't improve through AI.

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Speaker 2: Niko Morett, thank you very much. Indeed, the chief financial

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Speaker 2: officer of the Naspaz and Process Group Stephen gone X

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Speaker 2: at ab Stephen twenty three after six well netcare reporting

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Speaker 2: profits are by seventeen percent for the year to the

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Speaker 2: end of September, Headline earnings per share up by twenty

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Speaker 2: point seven. Building more facilities as well. Dr Richard Friedland

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Speaker 2: is the CEO at Netcare. Richard, good evening. Good to

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Speaker 2: talk to you again. Your total paid patient days, we're

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Speaker 2: ap point seven percent year on here. Where is that

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Speaker 2: growth coming from? Is that just a bigger population.

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Speaker 8: It's certainly a sicker population. Stephen, good evening to you.

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Speaker 8: People continue to seek healthcare. We are at the more sophisticate,

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Speaker 8: at higher end of healthcare delivery in our hospitals, but

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Speaker 8: we also provide services right across the healthcare continuum. And

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Speaker 8: I think notwithstanding that, we were able to achieve fantastic

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Speaker 8: operating leverage or more than two and a half times

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Speaker 8: our revenue, and very good cash flow. So all in all,

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Speaker 8: a very good year for us.

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Speaker 2: Other consumer facing companies and you are sort of one

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Speaker 2: of those have reported a very tough environment. People obviously

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Speaker 2: still still need treatment. You're building new facilities, new clinics.

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Speaker 2: Do you see demands still increasing?

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Speaker 9: Then yes we do.

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Speaker 8: But Stephen, we're not in a bricks and mortar strategy anymore,

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Speaker 8: even though we've got lots of facilities nationwide. We decided

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Speaker 8: in two eighteen to move into the digital, AI and

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Speaker 8: data space, and what you would have seen in our

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Speaker 8: results today is expanding that digital divide between ourselves and

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Speaker 8: our competitors, but more importantly, beginning to reap that digital dividend.

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Speaker 8: We have brought in five hundred and eighty five million

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Speaker 8: of efficiency savings since twenty twenty two. We're showing very

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Speaker 8: significant improvements having digitized and putting electronic medical records and

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Speaker 8: AI and predictive tools in the quality of care. We've

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Speaker 8: published ninety two of our outcomes already and we've had

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Speaker 8: twenty nine publications in peer review journals. We really are

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Speaker 8: moving into a very different league. And today we were

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Speaker 8: very excited to launch.

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Speaker 7: The biggest global wearable project.

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Speaker 8: We're bringing in six thousand wearable watches that will be

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Speaker 8: able to monitor the vitals of more than six thousand

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Speaker 8: patients in our general wards. And that takes healthcare and

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Speaker 8: safety and our ability to intervene and prevent a deterioration

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Speaker 8: in our patients so totally new level.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean just the amount of money it must say,

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Speaker 2: from everything that you used to do, I presume. It

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Speaker 2: also gives you access to a lot more data that

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Speaker 2: you'll be able to use for research. You will have

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Speaker 2: so many minutes of literally beat by beat data.

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Speaker 7: From patients absolutely, you're right.

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Speaker 8: You know, we're producing fifty three gigabytes of clinical data

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Speaker 8: per day just in our hospital division. Now, Stephen, I

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Speaker 8: can tell you in twenty eighteen we were present, we

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Speaker 8: were producing zero. And when you have digital data and

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Speaker 8: it's audited and it's time based, as opposed to that

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Speaker 8: which is recorded manually, it's chalque and cheese. And obviously

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Speaker 8: the data belongs to patients and we are merely their custodians,

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Speaker 8: so there's any enormous responsibility to look after that data appropriately.

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Speaker 8: But I think that you know, even giving these wearables

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Speaker 8: to patients that leave hospital, their elderly or their chronic illnesses,

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Speaker 8: at least we can monitor them and hopefully prevent unnecessary readmissions.

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Speaker 8: So there are lots of advantages, and we're going to

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Speaker 8: go through a pilot early next year and hopefully, if

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Speaker 8: that's successful, we are going to roll this out on mass.

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Speaker 2: The NHI discussion is still around and you and I

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Speaker 2: have discussed it many times, Richard, the threat of NHI

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Speaker 2: to your business model.

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Speaker 7: Do you think it's as much.

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Speaker 2: Of a threat as it was, say before the elections

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Speaker 2: last year, or do you think it's receded.

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Speaker 8: Apartment I don't think the NHI is a threat. I

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Speaker 8: think it's an opportunity to work with government. But I

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Speaker 8: think the real threat in South Africa is the collapsing

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Speaker 8: public sector. And you know, the Auditor General report that

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Speaker 8: came out in Parliament on the twenty ninth of October

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Speaker 8: spoke about a public health system in free fall, you know,

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Speaker 8: plagued by financial rule ruin, institutional rot and a near

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Speaker 8: total absence of accountability. And the reason I raised that, Stephen,

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Speaker 8: is there's a real urgency for all of us to

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Speaker 8: come together, whether it's NHI or not, to work in

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Speaker 8: partnership to help improve access to good, quality and affordable healthcare.

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Speaker 8: And you know, I'll view certainly within netcare. So allow

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Speaker 8: the litigation to continue, that's been government's choice. But at

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Speaker 8: the same time, work collaboratively to improve the healthcare of

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Speaker 8: all and our raises because there's a real urgency in

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Speaker 8: trying to achieve it. So we don't see the NHI

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Speaker 8: in any form as a threat to us. In fact,

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Speaker 8: I've presented at the inaugural Ombudsman for Health Conference ten

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Speaker 8: proposals on public private partnerships where the public private sector

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Speaker 8: can step in in a collaborative way to assist the

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Speaker 8: public sector.

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Speaker 2: It's urgent, Doctor Richard Frieden, thank you, chief executive at Netcare.

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Speaker 2: The money show, Sam Barta's investment unders of the old

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Speaker 2: mutual investment groups here good evening. Finally confirmation from BHP

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Speaker 2: they don't want Anglo that dealers often Anglo has basically

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Speaker 2: made itself too.

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Speaker 10: Big to take believing Stephen Yes most certainly. The question

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Speaker 10: for a while had been deal, no deal, and Kelly.

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Speaker 10: As of today, there's no deal. PHP have officially walked

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Speaker 10: away from its recent take of a attempt of Anglo Americans.

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Speaker 10: They often had included a mix of cash as well

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Speaker 10: as shares, but Anglo had decided that it was inferior

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Speaker 10: as compared to the planned.

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Speaker 6: Merger with Tech Resources.

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Speaker 10: So with BHV out of the picture, this new merger

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Speaker 10: is now on track and shareholders are expected to vote

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Speaker 10: on the night of December, and assuming the deal does

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Speaker 10: come through within the next half to eighteen months, we

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Speaker 10: should see a combined entity of Anglo Tech with more

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Speaker 10: than seventy percent exposure to copper. And this is really

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Speaker 10: exciting because this would create essentially a new global copper.

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Speaker 2: Heavyweight and present drummer Pausa and Mark Conney seems to

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Speaker 2: have quite a long conversation during that photograph. On Saturday,

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Speaker 2: I noticed Process and naspas they're half year results. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Process talking up their results, but their shares down on

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Speaker 2: the GC today.

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Speaker 10: Sure, I mean, as an investor, you can think of

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Speaker 10: Process as a global portfolio of online businesses. They're essentially

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Speaker 10: a digital middle man that owns and invest in companies

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Speaker 10: that people use every day across the world, and so

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Speaker 10: within their businesses they own quite significant stakes and food

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Speaker 10: delivery companies, classified platforms, payment companies as well. And you

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Speaker 10: will remember their most famous investment have been ten ten Cent,

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Speaker 10: which is now China's largest tech giant. But back to

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Speaker 10: the results, I mean, the top line was largely aligned

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Speaker 10: with investors' expectations. Underlying businesses, especially with food delivery and

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Speaker 10: the classifieds, they're still doing quite well, so they are firing.

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Speaker 10: The only negative surprise i'd say is a high central costs,

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Speaker 10: but overall the core engine is running smoothly.

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Speaker 2: And netcare results. I mean Richard Friedland very bullish. I

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Speaker 2: think he has every right to be at this stage.

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Speaker 2: Certainly they have moved to digital, seems to have.

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Speaker 10: Helped sure most certainly. I mean when I think about Netcare,

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Speaker 10: it's essentially a pure play on South African hospital groups.

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Speaker 10: When I look at the results, it's largely in line

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Speaker 10: with expectations from a revenue and a profit perspective, and

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Speaker 10: the business is really in the sweet spot. From an

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Speaker 10: occupancy perspective. These have normalized and these businesses generally tend

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Speaker 10: to exhibit high degree of operating levers, so any sort

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Speaker 10: of top line growth over a fixed cost phase, you'll

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Speaker 10: get profit expansion and margin expansion. So as long as

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Speaker 10: they continue to achieve the right occupancies, then they're in

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Speaker 10: the sweet spot. And they've managed to do this in

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Speaker 10: an environment with weak growth, so we've seen medically insured

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Speaker 10: lives in South Africa not growth. They've been stagnant for

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Speaker 10: the better part of a decade, and the industry in

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Speaker 10: general is challenged from a pricing power perspective. But notwithstanding,

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Speaker 10: the digitalization strategy has certainly paid off. They've managed costs

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Speaker 10: quite well and these are supported margins and they've saved

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Speaker 10: more than well just under six hundred million worth of

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Speaker 10: cash in savings, so they've managed to do quite well

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Speaker 10: in a tough environment.

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Speaker 2: Sierra and Barta, good to talk. Thank you, investment analyst

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Speaker 2: at the Old Mutual Investment Group.

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Speaker 7: What's up Stephen on.

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Speaker 1: Seven two seven O two one seven two So, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know if I've opened a hornet's nest here. I asked

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Speaker 2: you the question when you saw the president presiding over

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Speaker 2: the G twenty summer last night over the weekend, which

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Speaker 2: other South African would you have liked to see?

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Speaker 7: Who else could have done that? Tola Ke unfortunately was

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Speaker 7: not available as far as I know, I'm gonna ask her.

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Speaker 2: But who would you like to see? So Dave says

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Speaker 2: Peter roneveld H Cornelis says I would have loved to

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Speaker 2: see him, and miss Sherba the leader, the leader of

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Speaker 2: Action ESA presiding in the sun. That's Cornelia's and B

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Speaker 2: and B Slade says no, and Clark pos says, I

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Speaker 2: think Trevor Manuel or Tarbo and Becky would have done

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Speaker 2: equally well. Trevor Manuel chaired one of the panels that

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Speaker 2: led into it. I thought that was interesting, Stay says

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Speaker 2: the other guy called him beaky? Is it more, Letzi?

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Speaker 2: It is more Letti. I think he had had an

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Speaker 2: important birthday. Happy birthday, moi, Letzi and Berky quite recently.

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Speaker 2: I like that the other guy called in Berkeley shame.

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Speaker 2: That's not very nice. But Boraletti and Becky very much

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Speaker 2: a man in his own right. By the way, I've

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Speaker 2: spoken to many, many, many times about politics and all

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Speaker 2: sorts of other things. If you kind of want to

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Speaker 2: get a deeper understanding, he's the old guy. Voice notes

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Speaker 2: also on seven two seven two one seven o two an.

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Speaker 11: Your listeners, you know you're asking a very good question

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Speaker 11: that we can meet Salvashka in those international stages. I

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Speaker 11: have two people in mind, and listeners are they can

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Speaker 11: disagree with me. I have Sonya Phoebe and Adreain Gore.

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Speaker 11: Those are the two people that I think for me,

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Speaker 11: they have what it takes to be on international stage.

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Speaker 7: Thank you so much, Clay Sure as always as a

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Speaker 7: hilrium from kip Ta.

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Speaker 12: Definitely for Skimboguayo, hands down, wow. I think it would

437
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 12: have been the perfect perfect spokesperson MC ambassador with his

438
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 12: level of confidence, assertiveness, strategic thinking. Yeah, no, he's the

439
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:18,959
Speaker 12: He would have been the ideal.

440
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 2: No doubting his level of confidence, that's for sure. Gosh

441
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 2: that that I did not see that coming. I think

442
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: Discovery share price going to tick up slightly tomorrow, Adrian

443
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 2: Gore very interesting thoughts. Okay, who do you think who

444
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: would you like to have seen on the stage? If

445
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: not President Drummer Pausa, then who eighteen minutes to seven,

446
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 2: The Money Show.

447
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: With Stephen Crudis live on ninety two point seven and

448
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: one six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

449
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: Naven and DStv channel eight five.

450
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: Six fourteen minutes to seven. I might have mentioned at

451
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 2: the start of the show quite a few results out today,

452
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 2: one of them coming from PPC. They headline this is

453
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: the cement maker. Their headline earnings per share up fifteen percent.

454
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 2: I'm kind of hoping that's because of stronger demand. The

455
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: revenue arep by six percent. There was an issue with

456
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 2: a foreign exchange age that went wrong. Matthias Carter really

457
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: is the CEO at PPC has been involved in the

458
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 2: sort of turnaround. Mattia's good to talk to you again.

459
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: Good evening. Please tell me are you seeing more demand

460
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: for cement in South Africa?

461
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 9: Good evenings, Steve, and and thank you for having me again.

462
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 9: I'm for allowing me to share another set of very

463
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 9: good results coming from PPC. The answer is not in

464
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 9: the size and the speed we would like to see.

465
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 9: But we have seen some pockets of growth, especially in

466
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 9: the West, the Cape and Pupalanga Ali Popo, coming both

467
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 9: from public sector and also from private sector. But clearly

468
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 9: the main driver in our results is not coming from

469
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 9: the economy and the market. As we spoke six months ago,

470
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 9: our turnaround process focus on a locking internal value and

471
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 9: this is what we have been doing through better operational efficiencies,

472
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 9: god saving coming particularly from our logitic function, and better

473
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 9: quality sales. So coming back to your question is that

474
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 9: we're starting to see some positive signals. We are cauciously optimistic.

475
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 9: I think we have reached the point that probably the

476
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 9: term is closed after more than ten years of a

477
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 9: negative construction cycle, but still we need to see that happening.

478
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: Okay, So I mean I appreciate the honesty. Your margins

479
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 2: are trending high. Now, look, there's quite tough competition in

480
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: your sector. How are you building bigger margins in your business?

481
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 9: Oh, basically, we're focusing on the two lines of our margins,

482
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 9: meaning we are running our operations in a more efficient

483
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 9: way and this is bringing our cost done. But also

484
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 9: we look for sales not to get volumes at any cost,

485
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 9: meaning we have done a deeper which are the best

486
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 9: commercial channels for us, the best customers and the best products.

487
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 9: So since we are the premium brand, because we are

488
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 9: the premium quality cement, we can compete in all cement

489
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 9: segments and in all the regions in the countries where

490
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 9: we operate, operate in South Africa and Zimbabwe. So we

491
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 9: try to avoid enter into some segments where a real

492
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 9: price competition is there, which is the low strength cement

493
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 9: in the inland region. This is the real transltion in

494
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 9: terms of price, the thirty two point five cement product

495
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 9: in Pumalanga, Hautenallypopo. This is where going to do where

496
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 9: you're going to find a high competition and a lot

497
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 9: of pressure on prices. Since we can differentiate and we

498
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 9: can attract different customers for different segments, we focus more

499
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 9: on that which is bringing better march into us comparing

500
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 9: to our competitors.

501
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: You're building a new cement plant in the Western Cape

502
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: and we've spoken about that before. It will bring a

503
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: lot of the efficiencies, but as part of that you

504
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: took at a round hedge and in the end you

505
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 2: lost a lot of money. I think it was seventy

506
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: four million round. Was the dollar just too weak in

507
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: the round too strong.

508
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 9: Yes, indeed, but we would have done it again. We

509
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 9: could have taken the same decision. We still believe that

510
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 9: it's some temporary losses there because of the exchangerend, change

511
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 9: rate and run being stronger. But look, we are running

512
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 9: a very important project. This is going to be a

513
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 9: game change and not only for BBC but for the

514
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 9: cement industry in the country. We landed in a very

515
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 9: low cost to build that super efficient plant. We didn't

516
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 9: want to take some riffs in terms of the exchange rate.

517
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 9: So yeah, you're seeing some financial houses there. But still

518
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 9: we believe that overall the project is on time, on

519
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 9: budget and we are looking at producing clinkering in the

520
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 9: first quarter of the Calindar year twenty twenty seven.

521
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: And your operations in zimbab we seem to be reporting

522
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: some growth.

523
00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, because they are.

524
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 9: Yes, the economy growing, the concept the construction sector is

525
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 9: really strong and again we're the leader there. We operate

526
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 9: in all the regions of the country. We are the

527
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 9: premium brand, so we are the best one in position

528
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 9: to get the opportunity from the market growing. Another important

529
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 9: thing that has just happened is that there our sem

530
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 9: operation delivered a twenty million US dollar dividends that we

531
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 9: have already received and this is a big growth comparing

532
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 9: a four million US dollar dividend that we received last

533
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 9: year in the same period.

534
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: But tis got ready good to talk to you again.

535
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, the CEO at the Cement Maker

536
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: PPC at nine minutes to seven in a moment to

537
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: speak to Neville Brank, the CEO of the Oceanic Group.

538
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 13: The money Show Stiver Critters is brought to you by

539
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 13: apps CIB proud host of the Africa Impact Matters series podcasts,

540
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 13: authorise the FSP and registered credit providers.

541
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: Seven minutes now to seven the time. Don't forget our

542
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: question tonight. Who would you like to see representing South Africa?

543
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: If not President Roma Pousa, who would have been the

544
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: best person to sort of host the G twenty Well

545
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: Oceana reporting lower profits this year. They did have a

546
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 2: fifty eight percent increase in operating profits for its African operations,

547
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: but US dollar prices for fish oil were down by

548
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 2: half their head record levels last year. Neville Brink, as

549
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: the CEO of the Oceana Group, nevill good evening. We

550
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: remember how important fish oil prices were for you last year.

551
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: Peru's catch improved. There were lower prices this year, and

552
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: that really had a big impact on.

553
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 14: You, Hi, Stephen, Yes it has, and coming off the

554
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 14: record highway had last year passes.

555
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 7: We have normalized.

556
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 14: In fact, I think that they're probably overcorrected a little

557
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 14: bit and should strengthen the next couple of weeks. But

558
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 14: you know, that's that's fishing. Unfortunately, we have to add

559
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 14: the waves and the volatility of the industry.

560
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: Your overhead expenditure was down by twelve percent, and from

561
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: what I saw, its mainly because of lower employment costs,

562
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: so you're not employing as many people as you did before.

563
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 14: No, we haven't had any retrenchment process. What we have

564
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 14: done is read ore extra people into some of our

565
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 14: new businesses, in particular in the Lucky Star side where

566
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 14: we've opened a can meat factory. So we've been just

567
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 14: a little bit clever in the way we allocated our resources.

568
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 14: So there's been no mass retrenchment.

569
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 6: No.

570
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 7: I mean I presumed you would have heard by now

571
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 7: if there was.

572
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: Your Lucky Star group. So huge important, hugely important for

573
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: you often produces one of the cheapest forms of protein

574
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: for many people. You say it had a tough second half.

575
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 2: What happened?

576
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 14: No, I didn't say there was a tough second after.

577
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 5: We've had a good year.

578
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 14: No, we certainly have, but we've had volumes up and

579
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 14: the behalves have been more or less the same consistent

580
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 14: demand from the consumers. Obviously, pricing is key for that brand,

581
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 14: and we've got to manage that past very collected because

582
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 14: we don't compete in the can cultured market. We compete

583
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 14: in the border protein market and extent we compete with Stars.

584
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: My mistake, I must have misread that. I do apologize.

585
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: And Lucky Lucky Star is exporting. Where are you finding

586
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: new markets? So those neighboring countries, people who might know

587
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 2: the product already in some ways.

588
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 14: Yeah, Traditionally we've always exported to the Sadak countries. But

589
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 14: one new market that we have discovered this year and

590
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 14: we've started and opened and it's starting to.

591
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 7: Do well is Ghana.

592
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 14: Ghana has very similar eating habits to South Africans, where

593
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 14: they know can pulchers or canned fish in a tall

594
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 14: can and a four to five grand can. So we've

595
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 14: now opened a Lucky Star office there with a local

596
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 14: partner and it is certainly starting to gain nice traction.

597
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 14: And the two major two major cities, Acra and Kumasi

598
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 14: are certainly big fish eating populations and we've started to

599
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 14: grow some traction of Lucky Star.

600
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 7: In that in that market.

601
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 2: You also fish for horse mackerel, and you suggest that

602
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 2: the horse macrol industry in Themibia may not be sustainable

603
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: under the current work there. What seems to be going

604
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: wrong in your view? What are you warning about.

605
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 14: There's two things that concerns us in The number one

606
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 14: is the management of the resource. The biomass is certainly

607
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 14: dropped off. We think there's too much effort in the industry,

608
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 14: too many vessels fishing on too little fish, and we've

609
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 14: seen our catch tres drop there. We are also concerned

610
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 14: about a level of poaching coming from North Africa down

611
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 14: into the Namibian waters and the Namibian authorities don't have

612
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 14: the resources to patrol it properly. And then the second

613
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 14: allocation is the operators. The big operators there are getting

614
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 14: less and less quota and we're having to buy the

615
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 14: balance of quota from independent non operators and it is

616
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 14: becoming marginal. It's certainly something that we are working on.

617
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 14: We're having dialogue with the authorities there, with government there

618
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 14: because we want to stay invested in Namibia and we

619
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 14: think we can get some sort of solution to allow

620
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 14: foreign investment in the country, in particular in the fishing industry.

621
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 2: Are you the people you compete with other people in

622
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: the industry worried about the same thing. I mean, this

623
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: is the kind of thing that needs to be managed

624
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: quite carefully. Everybody needs to sort of work together to

625
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: manage that resource, otherwise everybody suffers.

626
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 14: Yeah, we have associations there, the operators associations in the

627
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 14: horsemacal business, and we're working through the associations through through government.

628
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 6: But it is, it is.

629
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 14: It is a bit of a political mindfilf. It's not

630
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 14: easy to manage because they have a social problem like

631
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 14: we have in terms of unemployment, and they're trying to

632
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 14: redress that by allocating quotas to a range of parties

633
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 14: that often don't have any expertise in fishing and simply

634
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 14: are selling the piece of paper back to the fishing industry.

635
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 14: That helped that can be That's certainly is possible as

636
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 14: long as the operators have sufficient stock on their own

637
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 14: to keep and cover the capital cost of refurbishing vessels

638
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 14: and upgrading factories. So there's a fine line there and

639
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 14: we have to be very careful how we manage it.

640
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 7: Nevill Brinker really appreciate the time. Thank you, CEO Oceania Group.

641
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 3: The Money Show on seven Monday till Friday six to

642
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 3: a pm.

643
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: Well, still some responses coming through on who people would

644
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: have liked to see hosting the G twenty. Rob hers

645
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 2: Off says Rieon, that was not a name I expected.

646
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 2: I have to just tell you I saw today that

647
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: Stefinuiti Stocks has finally agreed to a sort of settlement

648
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 2: with ESKIMB. They'll get five hundred and eighty million round

649
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 2: from ESKIM. That'll be full and final settlement, the sort

650
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: of magic words and a legal settlement like that. They

651
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: had a dispute arbitration. There was a sort of objection

652
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 2: from ESCAM. It does seem to have been resolved, but

653
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: it just reminded me of how long, how sort of

654
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: heavy the hand of that era, that SAIF capture era

655
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 2: really is. Still we have outcomes like this where processes

656
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: take a long time to get resolved they're very complicated,

657
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 2: they require they involved lots of people. There were big

658
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: issues there and as a result, when it comes to

659
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 2: an adjudication process or some kind of way to resolve this,

660
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 2: it just seems to take a very long time. And

661
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 2: then when you think, for example, Bain and co ev

662
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: and she just packed up and left. I've yet to

663
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 2: come across someone who shed a tear. Think of the

664
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: reputation of McKenzie. Still people still sort of talk about

665
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: it in that kind of way. It's just interesting what happened,

666
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: how that era still set a tone in a way,

667
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 2: and how long it takes to resolve all of those things.

668
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 2: We'll talk more about the G twenty. We'll speak to

669
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: County pie, a senior economist at PwC Strategy in a

670
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: few moments at that James R. Dunley, founder and CEO

671
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 2: of Education Africa. He's got a new book out called

672
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 2: It Always Seems Impossible. And then Mara Li's fan Sale,

673
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 2: the CEO at Aspire Art. He's involved in the art

674
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 2: as investment in the cars investment business.

675
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 7: Looking forward to talking to her as well. You have

676
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 7: the Money Show at seven o'clock.

677
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

678
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: oh two. Let's Walk Little.

679
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

680
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 2: by Abscess CIB proud host of the Africa Impact Matters

681
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 2: series podcast. As there is an authorized FSP and registered

682
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: credit to provider. I'm Stephen hurt A. Seven minutes after

683
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 2: seven the time plenty to come. We'll talk about a book.

684
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: It's called It Always Seems Impossible and doesn't it? Just

685
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: in fact, it's such a great title because it just

686
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 2: sort of describes life. I think many people, not everyone obviously,

687
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 2: but many people end up doing things they never thought

688
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: would actually happen, and for all sorts of reasons they're

689
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 2: able to do it.

690
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 7: James Urdung is his name.

691
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 2: He's the founder and CEO at Education Africa County Pie

692
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 2: like me, I think recovering from the G twenty hard

693
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: to know who had more fun here or I. We'll

694
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: speak to him at a moment, in a moment just

695
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,479
Speaker 2: about the world economy after the G twenty, and then

696
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 2: I don't know about art and cars as an investment.

697
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 2: For me, a car is meant to be driven, an

698
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: art is meant to be looked at and appreciated than

699
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 2: to sort of lock it up where only one person

700
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 2: can see it tour maybe a family can see it.

701
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 2: I don't really think that's the point. I think art

702
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: is also meant to influence us, but like journalism in

703
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: some ways, and I kind of realize how contested that might.

704
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 7: Be, but I kind of feel that it should be

705
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 7: shared a little bit.

706
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying everyone should be able to drive

707
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: a car, but certainly you should be able to see it,

708
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: and sometimes you want to hear it. But yeah, we'll

709
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: talk about that. Such an interesting subject, my realize from

710
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: sales the CEO to Aspire Art. Looking forward to that

711
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: conversation actually, and fascinated by this particular question, which is,

712
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: if you have a piece of art, what are the ingredients?

713
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 2: What are the elements that will make it more or

714
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: less valuable over time? And how hard is it to

715
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 2: predict that? I think it can be quite hard to

716
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 2: predict that, but that'll be one of the questions I'll

717
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 2: put to Looking forward to that. Your voice notes and

718
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: comments coming through as well on seven two, seven oh

719
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: two one seven oh two. I know quite a few

720
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 2: people with suggestions as to who they would have liked

721
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: to have seen hosting the g twenty. If not President

722
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 2: Za Roma Porza, then who I think there's there's quite

723
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 2: interesting comment station there. Kind of in a way, I

724
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 2: suppose one of those questions that makes you think, it makes.

725
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 7: You sort of reveal who you rarely back.

726
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 2: I think that's interesting. Some gearzu Zibi, I thought was

727
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 2: an interesting choice. Nine minutes after seven, The Lanly Show.

728
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 3: With Stephen Krudis live on ninety two point seven and

729
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 3: one six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

730
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

731
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 2: So I was lucky enough to spend my weekend at

732
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: the G twenty, and it seemed to me if you

733
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: go through the final declaration, if you look at how

734
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: so many of the leaders there responded to President so Romapausa,

735
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: this was a really big and successful week for South Africa,

736
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 2: despite the elephant that wasn't in the room, so to speak.

737
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 2: Fronty Pie is a senior economist at PwC Strategy County.

738
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 2: Good evening, Good to talk to you again. I suppose

739
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 2: the real question is whether the summit, whether the declaration

740
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 2: makes any difference to our economy, to other economies and

741
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 2: our content. Do you think it makes a difference at all?

742
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 15: Ready?

743
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 6: First, let me just correct Steven. I'm no longer with Pews,

744
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 6: so I left them some time back and I have

745
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 6: now since you know, joined a couple of very smart

746
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 6: people to set our own, uh small shop to do

747
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 6: strategy and economics. So I have to correct that. But

748
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 6: I also thought that and if I can take a

749
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 6: little bit of time about the cars, you know, one

750
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 6: of my mentors when I was setting out in my

751
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 6: career said something important.

752
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:34,439
Speaker 5: Said, you know, in.

753
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 6: Order for you to act succeed, what you need to

754
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 6: do is that whenever you are going with a boss

755
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 6: to a client, you must drive, and so that they

756
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 6: can see that you can do things, you know that

757
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 6: you're capable. And so I decided to drive the one

758
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 6: time I was driving BT inn O car and then

759
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 6: my boy said, oh this is your car. One day

760
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 6: you're actually going to drive a car that you can't

761
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 6: here an engine. You're gonna hear the engine as it.

762
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 7: And now I.

763
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 6: Drive a card that I do not hear the engine

764
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 6: and night rab those things are very very very important

765
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 6: that I highlight that. But back to this and I think, actually,

766
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 6: but this is actually very very important for South Africa

767
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 6: because what we've been able to do to put together

768
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 6: this this event, this meeting, and you know it's outcomes

769
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 6: really really actually also is an important market in terms

770
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 6: of people, you know, trusting us our reputation that we

771
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 6: can do things that we are capable. And that's something very,

772
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 6: very very important, especially when people think about investment, when

773
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 6: thing about actually you know the state of the country

774
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 6: and whether or not they can move them. And I

775
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 6: think that is one of the biggest things that we

776
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 6: might we may have achieved here in terms of being

777
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 6: able to have done this as we have so as

778
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 6: we have done it.

779
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: There's also competence on different levels, right, So there's competence

780
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 2: on view airport work. There's competence on getting people in

781
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 2: and out of the out of the out of the

782
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: sort of center. There's competence on the level of what

783
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 2: your highways look like. I noticed when I drove through.

784
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 2: I drove quite through, quite early in the morning. It

785
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 2: was dark, some of the some of the street lights

786
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: weren't working in all sections of the highway. Most of

787
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,439
Speaker 2: the world leaders would have come through a long time

788
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 2: after me and wouldn't have noticed that. But there's another

789
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: set of competence which is as important, which is your

790
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 2: political competence, and it seemed to me Zaane dan Gore

791
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: and President Drumapausa maybe need to take a bow.

792
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 6: No, no, no absolution. I mean they really really reinforced

793
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 6: you know, South Africa sovereignty and they really stood firm

794
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 6: in terms of actually but it's really really important remember

795
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 6: that you know, the global order and the global world

796
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 6: had its rules. You know, we are not nobody does

797
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 6: what they want. That's why we've put international loom. That's

798
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 6: why we've got protocols so that actually there is a

799
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 6: way in which we do things that actually makes sense.

800
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 6: And so it was very very important for them to

801
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 6: do that, to actually reinforce those things. I actually also

802
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 6: listened to a klip by lenders and so who are saying,

803
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 6: you know, even though we've always attentions in the US.

804
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 6: And one of the things that's important about tensions between

805
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 6: nations is that they keep reminding you know, it's good

806
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 6: for everybody because you kept you keep being reminded about

807
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 6: your values and that the more you are reminded, the

808
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 6: more you actually have to stand for them, the more

809
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 6: they actually become more realistic and that you appreciate it

810
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 6: more and that they actually become ingrained. And I think

811
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 6: that we've got that opportunity here and we used it well.

812
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 2: If you look at the leaders of the G twenty,

813
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: almost by definition most of them come from the global North.

814
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 2: And it would seem to me that if you look

815
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: at the declaration, there seems to be quite a deep

816
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 2: understanding that what happen in one country affects another. So

817
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 2: to put it's another way, if you're the Italian Prime

818
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 2: minister and you've got a refugee crisis, that's because Italy

819
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: is failing, and that's because Libya is failing as a state.

820
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 2: There's quite a lot of self interest in everybody working

821
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: together on problems that may only be in one place

822
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: but will affect everybody eventually. I mean, if we've learned nothing,

823
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 2: for if we've learned one thing from COVID, that's surely

824
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 2: the lesson.

825
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 6: No that certainly it self interest is is thet You know,

826
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 6: economists know this. One of our founding founding fathers of economy,

827
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 6: Adam Swinth said, you know that we don't you know,

828
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 6: we don't have bread every morning because the baker decided

829
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 6: that he wants, you know, to feed all of us.

830
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 6: It is his own interest that he actually bakes that

831
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 6: bed so that he can sell it and make an income,

832
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,720
Speaker 6: and we happen to be able to actually then benefit

833
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 6: from his own self interest. It's the same thing with

834
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 6: people will make us shoes of that all self interest,

835
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 6: but in the end that self interest is supposed to

836
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 6: actually help all of us actually in terms of how

837
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 6: we're able then, you know, to forward and.

838
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 4: To to to to to.

839
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 6: Meet our needs. Because that's something that's quite important. And

840
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 6: certainly one of the things that really came out very

841
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 6: very strongly, as we say now that about self interest

842
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 6: was that really, you know, many of those countries really

843
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 6: had a big, big shock, you know, when the US

844
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 6: for example, pulled out of pop and then of course

845
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 6: you know, undermined you know that you know, the agreements

846
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 6: around need come and so they said, look, we have

847
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 6: lost this, you know, this big, big ally for us.

848
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 6: And one of the things that we saw here is

849
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 6: that they really came here to take this platform to

850
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 6: look for new partnerships to reinforce you know the importance

851
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 6: of interconnections and working together. Uh, and that's what really

852
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 6: really came along and that was quite strong and I

853
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 6: thought for me, that was really really really important because

854
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 6: as we know, you know, globalization has been part and

855
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 6: interconnection has been part of you know, how we've actually

856
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 6: prospered globally. Yes, of course we've left some people behind,

857
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 6: but we have gained a lot in terms of our

858
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 6: ability to cooperate, our ability to trade, our ability to

859
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 6: you know, to see each other and to work together

860
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 6: towards common solutions. And so that is something that everybody recognizes.

861
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 6: And so this is why this meeting was so strong

862
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 6: and so many words were so there's such strong words

863
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 6: that we're being used. You know, I listened to President

864
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 6: Macron saying, you know, I respect Africa, I respect you

865
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 6: know I you know, China respect the East because we

866
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 6: all have to work togue ourselves. Everybody now is recognizing

867
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 6: that there is no other way out of this except

868
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 6: that we respect each odd. There we are equals, so

869
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 6: that when we faced problems and faced them together.

870
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 7: Antie Pie, good to talk to you again.

871
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 9: Thank you.

872
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 2: The independent economists and strategist recently set up his own

873
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: small shop with, as he puts up, very smart people

874
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 2: seventeen minutes after seven.

875
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: My show business books.

876
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: Nineteen minutes after seven. Well, it's a wonderful title. For

877
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 2: a book, it always seems impossible. It's by James Urudang

878
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 2: and in many ways it's about his own experience in

879
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 2: setting up an organization called Education Africa. He's actually in

880
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 2: our studio now, James. Good evening, thanks so much for

881
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 2: coming in.

882
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 15: Good evening, Stephen, and good evening to the listeners.

883
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: So it's a book about you, your journey from the

884
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties. You were working for the family business and

885
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 2: so many of us have done that. And then he

886
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 2: decided to go and do something completely different.

887
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 16: Yes, and I started Education Africa in nineteen ninety two,

888
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 16: befomly registered and it comes from ours in special these education.

889
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 16: I saw it all fat and then mainstream. That's some

890
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 16: studios struggled through schooling. Sport kept me going, but I

891
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 16: wanted to make a difference in other children's lives who

892
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 16: also struggled to get education.

893
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 2: I mean, there must have been quite a lot of

894
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 2: motivation behind it. And yet from the title of your book,

895
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 2: it was clearly seemed very difficult at the time.

896
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think all the stars lined up for me.

897
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 16: Then I was mentored by the late Walter Sisulu. He

898
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 16: opened up doors for me to do some unique work

899
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 16: with Nelson Mandale as you can see from the ford

900
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 16: of the book done by the Nelson Mandela Foundation, and

901
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 16: was I was young, and it was an exciting time

902
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 16: in South African, exiting part of my life and I'm

903
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 16: very blessed to have been part of history at that

904
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 16: time and experiencing the new South Africa and trying something

905
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 16: new and something that's impossible.

906
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 7: How did that happen? I mean Walter Sezulu.

907
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 2: I realized it was a very different time, and I

908
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 2: sort of remember when he was released to how muted

909
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 2: the reporting on it was because it was still a

910
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,479
Speaker 2: state of emergency, was just before nineteen ninety and yet

911
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 2: I mean he would not have been someone most people

912
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: would have bumped into.

913
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 16: Yeah, I knew in starting education at that time through

914
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 16: their transformation is that the next government who waiting was

915
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 16: the African National Congress and I needed the support. So

916
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 16: I knew I wasn't going to get hold of Nelson

917
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,720
Speaker 16: and Ellen. People said, how did you get hold of Sasula?

918
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 16: I said, I picked up the phone and phone shell

919
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 16: House and I was put through to his secretary regardsoence

920
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 16: he set up a meeting and went to go see him.

921
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 16: He was inspired by my story in fact that they

922
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 16: phoned me back later that day to say once to

923
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 16: see you the next day and back I went to

924
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 16: shell House and he said I'm going to help you

925
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 16: and changed and molded my life forever.

926
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: I mean that kind of thing. I don't know if

927
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: it would happen now. That can only happen during particular years.

928
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 2: What made your organization different to other educational organizations that

929
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 2: there are many now that were some menizing in a

930
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 2: particular field.

931
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 16: Yes, so we have multiple projects. So we have a

932
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 16: school in Orange Farm partnered with Saint John's College. We

933
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 16: have just over twelve hundred and sixty kids there. We

934
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 16: have extremely highmetric pass rate distinctions is a very high

935
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 16: performance school. We quite big in early childhood development. We

936
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 16: have eight teacher training centers and we've got one hundred

937
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 16: and aunty teachers graduating this year. The national qualification sawen

938
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 16: k of level four. We're the biggest marimbus trainers in

939
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 16: the country. Got thirty eight centers, over two thousand kids

940
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 16: a week in the program.

941
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 15: So we play a pot.

942
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 7: At the start.

943
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 2: So you had a little bit of support, But what

944
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 2: were the big difficulties I would imagine funding is always

945
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 2: one of them.

946
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 16: Funding is always a difficulty. But our very big difficulty

947
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 16: came years later when in around twenty ten. It start

948
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 16: in two thousand and nine around the lanch to where

949
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 16: HSBC came a trustee of Education Africa and attempted a

950
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 16: hostile takeover of the organization, which is well covered in

951
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 16: the book. And so yes, I do whistleblow all the

952
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 16: way up to the past CEO of HSBC.

953
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 15: And the South Africans involved.

954
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 16: It's actually an open case at the National Crimes Agency

955
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 16: in the UK. And I think it was Lord Peter

956
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 16: Hain who gave me the confidence and encouragement to write

957
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 16: the book because he wrote one of his open letters

958
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 16: or transported Education of Intimidation or stuff went through the

959
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 16: loss of programs and it costs tens of South thousands

960
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 16: of South Africans educational opportunities.

961
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 7: What did they want from it? In your view?

962
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 15: I'd love to know.

963
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 16: There was a forensic investive vacation done bar Worksman's at

964
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 16: the time after the whole ordeal they said you'll never

965
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,919
Speaker 16: know why because it's going to have to go to court.

966
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 16: H seeing the end, did settle the matter in London

967
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 16: after covering it up and it came very difficult because

968
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 16: it was settled because there was a gun to the

969
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 16: organization's head. Either you take the settlement or you go under.

970
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 16: They always talk now about the settlement when the Daily

971
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,399
Speaker 16: Maverick got hold of them a couple of weeks ago.

972
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 16: But no, that's not true because there was also a

973
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 16: lot of damage to individuals lives, some people who've lost

974
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 16: homes or can't work again and on antidepressants from the

975
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 16: intimidation that wasn't settled, that was actually brushed under the copet.

976
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 16: And it also tells a story how my cousin came

977
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 16: chairman of HSBC globally, the madness of the whole thing.

978
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 7: Sure, it's a bizarre story.

979
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:50,760
Speaker 15: Frankly, it's a bizarre story.

980
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 16: And I'm very proud that it's an exclusive Books Christmas catalogue.

981
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 16: Last month it was on their recommended list. It's the

982
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 16: Daily over extrare it's really getting traction and an interesting book.

983
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 16: And that's what makes it. Why it's impossible because from

984
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 16: my educational challenges for taking one of the biggest institutional

985
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 16: world from hemorrhaging and rebuilding organization.

986
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 15: To beigure what it was today.

987
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a strange story in some ways, because

988
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 2: you wouldn't think that a story about setting up a

989
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 2: sort of education in go in South Africa ends up

990
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 2: being the subject of something like that, where the motive

991
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 2: seems so obscure.

992
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 16: Very obscure because HSBC for many many years were very

993
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 16: good to us, and it was who was appointed at

994
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 16: the time and things went wrong.

995
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 15: I'd love to know why.

996
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 16: But I think what really troubles me a lot is

997
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 16: that there was never a sincere apology. If there was

998
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 16: a sincere apology, we would be a double triple the

999
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 16: Salasbia will be more endowed than we are today. But

1000
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 16: that they refused, even though at the time they were

1001
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 16: willing to apologize for cleaning the drug money in the

1002
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 16: US and Theiranian money, they were willing to apologize for

1003
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 16: tax evasion through Switzerland. In fact, Christiana Patel, who drove

1004
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 16: this process, was then appointed as the head of Private

1005
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 16: Banker for Global for HSBC globally. And everyone in the

1006
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 16: book is actually named. But what's quite interesting, not in

1007
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 16: my words, the words of the books, written in their words,

1008
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 16: in the forensic words, in or Peter Haynes' words. So

1009
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 16: it gives you a chances if Stephen or listeners are

1010
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 16: reading the book to make up your own opinion what happened.

1011
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 7: So you're aim in writing the book obviously there's a story.

1012
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 7: Is it also to inspire people?

1013
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 15: It's absolutely to inspire people. Yes, there is a story.

1014
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 16: But South African's got to be inspired, and I think

1015
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 16: also South Africans, we've got to tell us stories because

1016
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 16: there's a lot of wrong going out there and unless

1017
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 16: willing to be brave enough to tell our stories, a

1018
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 16: lot of stuff's going to be brushed under the carpet

1019
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,360
Speaker 16: and people need to come forward. I was asked for

1020
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 16: many years to write my book, and in fact it

1021
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 16: was some of the delit people also came to our

1022
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 16: rescue and chat named Mark Kahan from Bob Geldoff's office

1023
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 16: and other prominent South Africans. But one thing is I've

1024
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 16: learned that the journey isn't alone. You always have people

1025
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 16: helping you along. And I think that's who I've been

1026
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 16: blessed and yes still today.

1027
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 2: That's such an interesting point. The book is called It

1028
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 2: Always Seems Impossible. It's by the founder and CEO of

1029
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 2: Education Africa, James Urduan. It's twenty eight minutes after.

1030
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: Seven tell Money, show how I make my.

1031
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 2: Money, to tell you my release from sale. The CEO

1032
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: Aspire Art is a person we're talking to tonight, my release.

1033
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 7: Good evening. Thanks so much for a green to spend

1034
00:57:59,000 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 7: some time with us on the money.

1035
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 17: Hi, Hi Stephen, thank you so much for the invitation.

1036
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 2: I just want to go back a little bit, because

1037
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 2: you didn't start an art I saw your first job

1038
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 2: was at an advertising agency and you moved into art

1039
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 2: from there. Yeah, it was advertising, what you sort of

1040
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: your first love or was it just a stepping stone

1041
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 2: for you?

1042
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 17: That was certainly just a stepping stone. So way back

1043
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 17: then when I went to university, I went and studied art.

1044
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 17: I always knew I wanted to somehow be involved with art,

1045
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 17: but not knowing exactly what to do. Back then, we

1046
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 17: didn't know about all the opportunities that can and do exist,

1047
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 17: and the art industry and market has also changed quite

1048
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 17: a lot. There are a lot more job opportunities. So

1049
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 17: many of us as art students we would end up

1050
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 17: in other creative jobs like advertising or design or TV

1051
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 17: production and so forth. But yes, I ended up at

1052
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 17: an advertising agency, which was a valuable learning curve for me.

1053
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 17: I learned about business, project management, mind relationships.

1054
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 6: But art was.

1055
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 17: Always my passion and I was always looking for an

1056
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 17: opportunity to somehow get into the industry.

1057
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 2: Okay, so you now in the industry, and how did

1058
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 2: you do that? I mean, this is always the question.

1059
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 2: There's a sort of the way in because it's quite niche.

1060
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 2: We've spoken to one or two people in your industry before.

1061
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 2: We've spoken to an auctioneer, for example, she studied fine

1062
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 2: art and kind of went from there.

1063
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 7: But to get into it, how are you able to

1064
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 7: do that?

1065
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 2: Because I presume you can't just go from advertising to

1066
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 2: setting up your own business as you did.

1067
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 17: No, No, it is quite a long process. But in

1068
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 17: two thousand and seven I had an opportunity to literally

1069
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 17: pull a three sixty on my own life and continue

1070
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 17: postgraduate studies and literally just quit my job, moved to

1071
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 17: Kate Down and finished studies. But it was while I

1072
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 17: was at university I was introduced through my professor to

1073
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 17: this one gallery owner and then I got a job

1074
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 17: as a gallery manager or gallery curator I called it

1075
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 17: back then, to work in this commercial gallery and to

1076
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 17: literally start the business from the ground up. So it

1077
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 17: was definitely by way of introduction, and yeah, the rest

1078
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 17: is just a lot of hard work. Introduction is important.

1079
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So I mean you're now in the space where

1080
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 2: you particularly look at art as an investment, as I

1081
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 2: understand it. And let me start at the beginning with this,

1082
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 2: because this is quite a complicated topic. I mean, there's

1083
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 2: a wonderful phrase, there's a wonderful philosophical question.

1084
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 7: What is art? Right?

1085
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 2: So you could say art is squiggly drawing, art is

1086
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 2: the design of a really good cell phone. Art is

1087
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 2: a tennis But we think of art as something that

1088
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 2: exists only for itself. So what then creates value in

1089
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 2: an art work?

1090
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 6: You know?

1091
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 17: That is actually what also put me on this path

1092
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 17: because I, while I was still at university, went to

1093
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 17: my first art auction. And back then also I loved

1094
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 17: reading the newspapers and they would have these clips or

1095
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 17: photographs of paintings that went for certain amount of money

1096
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 17: at an auction. We that oversea, and I always wondered,

1097
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 17: but how is this value created? And then when I

1098
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 17: pursued my postgraduate studies, it was actually the theme of

1099
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 17: my thesis the creation of value in art looking at

1100
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 17: auctions specifically. So it's quite interesting that everything came full

1101
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 17: circle for me and now I'm working in the industry.

1102
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 17: But we work with fine art, so basically painting, sculpture, photographs,

1103
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 17: and new media works. And there is actually a clear

1104
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 17: sect of indicators that we used to create that value.

1105
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 17: First of all, it's the artist, the position of the

1106
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 17: artist in the industry, and what that artist does. Also,

1107
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 17: if we look at historical works, what was their role

1108
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 17: in bringing new ideas or methods to the four And

1109
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 17: then it's a size. You know, you look at the

1110
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 17: basic things like size, your medium, and then the age

1111
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 17: of creation and then also subject matter and then the

1112
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 17: real thing. That's quite I think difficult for a lot

1113
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 17: of people to understand. We also look at aesthetics, so

1114
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 17: we basically judge a work, you know, if it's good

1115
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 17: or not. They do always say artists in the eye

1116
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 17: of the beholder. For us, who has spent many, many

1117
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 17: years looking at art and studying it, we make those

1118
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 17: esthetic judgments as well. So yes, we will stand in

1119
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 17: front of a painting and say is it a good

1120
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 17: painting or is it a less you know, accomplished by thing.

1121
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 2: So I would like to think that you and say

1122
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 2: you're the greatest competitive They were such a person would

1123
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 2: be invited to a gallery and asked, so look at

1124
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 2: this invited to look at an artwork. Do you think

1125
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 2: that you and someone else in your business would agree

1126
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 2: or disagree on whether something is a good artwork or not.

1127
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 2: What I'm trying to get to, I suppose is is

1128
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 2: there a commonality because without a commonality there can be

1129
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 2: no extra value.

1130
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 17: Yeah, so yes, absolutely, we would to a certain point

1131
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 17: agree on the value of that work. There is commonality,

1132
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 17: and that is also what investors look for and or collectors.

1133
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 17: So it's a lot of talking, a lot of looking,

1134
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 17: but it's exactly those components of value, the artists, the date,

1135
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 17: the medium, the size, and then it's esthetic factors. And

1136
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 17: then also we look at the market. You know, we

1137
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 17: will see, okay, certain artists ten years ago sold for

1138
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 17: this amount of money. What is the worth of that

1139
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 17: particular work now? And there are different indexes that we follow.

1140
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 17: We follow Mutual Art, Art Price, art Net, and these

1141
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 17: are all databases that literally they drew draw all the

1142
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 17: information and all the auction results. So you can basically

1143
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 17: do a search on a particular artist and then put

1144
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 17: in certain dates and mediums and subject matters. So yes,

1145
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 17: there's definitely a commonality.

1146
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 2: Okay, So now this gets a different thing. Who says okay?

1147
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 2: So so why why why? Now I realize you've studied

1148
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 2: this and I haven't. But why with something like this

1149
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 2: is your does it matter?

1150
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 7: Why is your voice louder than mine? Now?

1151
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 2: Now let me just accept first you that it should be. Okay,

1152
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 2: but I can't tell you why. But but I mean,

1153
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 2: it's such a charge aware of us. But why do

1154
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 2: these people's voices matter not others?

1155
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 17: So because we work in it, this is our job,

1156
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 17: we consult people on it. We my title, Yes, I

1157
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 17: am a CEO, but first and foremost summer art historian

1158
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 17: and a specialist. So it's the same way people review

1159
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 17: books or review movies, films, concerts, music. It's it's the same.

1160
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 17: It's we We've studied it for so long and we

1161
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 17: follow it. It's actually for us quite close through religion.

1162
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 17: But the art, the art world, or the art market

1163
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 17: is not a new thing. It existed since the Renaissance.

1164
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,919
Speaker 17: And you know prominent families like the Medicis, they all

1165
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 17: collected art and then you will have their advisors as well.

1166
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 17: So yes, it is. It's a very close knit community.

1167
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 17: It's what we call the ecosystem. It is industry that

1168
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 17: supports all the various role players. But definitely there are

1169
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 17: guide keepers, but I always say the taste makers. But

1170
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 17: then generally there's just good art and less good art,

1171
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 17: and art that will give you a return on your investment.

1172
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 2: So can you see if you look at the sort

1173
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 2: of did you say taste makers? I think was the

1174
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 2: phrase that as tastemakers change and say, for example, a

1175
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 2: particular group is in the ascendancy, they're starting to rise,

1176
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 2: can you then predict from that that certain types of

1177
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 2: art will become more valuable and others less valuable.

1178
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 17: Yes, absolutely, so we see that the industry and the

1179
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 17: market is quite It works in a cycle. So you

1180
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 17: are not necessarily going to collect or appreciate the works

1181
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 17: or the art that your parents or grandparents collected. We

1182
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 17: do see the younger people coming in. Now you see

1183
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 17: people in the early let's say, late twenties, early thirties.

1184
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 17: They have some disposable capital, They add an aspirational phase

1185
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 17: in their life, and so they are also looking to

1186
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 17: the finer things in life, and we see them starting

1187
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 17: to buy art, and then we will we see them

1188
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 17: engaging in our online auctions because naturally that's a medium

1189
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 17: or a channel that they really like and engage with,

1190
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 17: so they bet a lot online. And then it's also

1191
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 17: entry level works and I think they also enjoy that,

1192
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 17: and then we actually guide them through the process. So

1193
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 17: the road that we walk with collectors is quite a

1194
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 17: long one. I mean I've worked with some collectors for

1195
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 17: almost twenty years, starting their collections, growing their collections, and

1196
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 17: then selling and buying again from their collections. But yeah,

1197
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 17: definitely there are cycles and we can see trends. And

1198
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 17: also an interesting thing for South Africa, about ten years

1199
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 17: ago with all the new museums coming up in capes On,

1200
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 17: there was this big focus on contemporary African art and

1201
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 17: also the works from South Africa and there also so

1202
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 17: we saw a lot of figurative works coming in, a

1203
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 17: lot of performative works coming in, especially from international audience

1204
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 17: audiences that really loves collecting these works. But then again

1205
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,600
Speaker 17: we also see now that there's all the artists like

1206
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:31,640
Speaker 17: a France or where you get people my age returning

1207
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 17: to those works and appreciating them more.

1208
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I presume that a piece of art confluctuate

1209
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 2: can go up and down and yet it's the same

1210
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 2: piece of art. Yes, I mean doesn't that get to

1211
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 2: the sort of value of art really is is about

1212
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 2: us rather than about the art. I mean, if the

1213
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,760
Speaker 2: art is good, then it should always be the same value.

1214
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 17: Yes, the value is to an extent of social construct.

1215
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 17: And that's where we as advisors, we would tell our

1216
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,000
Speaker 17: collectives listener, it's not a good time to sell now,

1217
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 17: you know, our advice is to hold onto the work

1218
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 17: or when we feel okay, if you want to sell

1219
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 17: and you now is the right time, you know, before

1220
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:19,679
Speaker 17: the market cools down or before you have to wait

1221
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 17: a little bit longer. But yes, the value for art

1222
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,719
Speaker 17: is doing to extend the social construct. But it's based

1223
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 17: on certain in the cases.

1224
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:31,559
Speaker 2: We're speaking to Marls fan Sale. She's the CEO to

1225
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 2: Aspire Art. Art as investment is sort of her business,

1226
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 2: and she's also in the cars business, and we'll talk

1227
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 2: about that in just a moment in minutes.

1228
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 7: Now to editor.

1229
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 13: The Money Show Stephenocrotus is brought to you by absce

1230
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:50,600
Speaker 13: CIB proud host of the Africa Impact Matters series podcast

1231
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,759
Speaker 13: Perhaps and authorized FSP and registered credit provider.

1232
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 1: Her money show How I Make My Money.

1233
01:09:58,680 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 7: Eight Minister eight.

1234
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 2: Doing our conversation with ma Relise and Sale, the CEO

1235
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 2: of Aspire Art, Marisa should at this point be asking

1236
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 2: all sorts of questions about where you get customers and

1237
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 2: things from.

1238
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 7: And I'm going to get.

1239
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:11,599
Speaker 2: To that, but I do need to ask about classic

1240
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 2: cars because you're in that market as well.

1241
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:15,640
Speaker 7: What kind of vehicles are you looking at?

1242
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:17,680
Speaker 2: And I presume you're not interested in a kind of

1243
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one kind of you know, Viktoryota Highlights.

1244
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 17: No, these are very specifically collective cars, and yeah, that

1245
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:33,639
Speaker 17: sounds quite an interesting new business segment that we brought

1246
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 17: into the company, and it was quite challenging for me

1247
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:40,719
Speaker 17: as again an art historian and running an art company

1248
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 17: and to integrate this new segment within our company. But

1249
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 17: what I found was a lot of car collectors look

1250
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 17: at exactly the same things in a car that art

1251
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 17: collectors would look for in a specific work of art.

1252
01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 17: So it was very much the name of you know,

1253
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 17: the brand of the car, the year, the model, the design,

1254
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:08,599
Speaker 17: the engine. So it was actually quite a lot of fun.

1255
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 17: So we will do these auctions bi annually and so

1256
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 17: we haven't done one this year, so we're working on

1257
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 17: our next auction for next year. But yeah, it was

1258
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 17: great fun working with all the old plastics, Alsa, we

1259
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 17: had some ferraris and it was really for It was

1260
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 17: really great. It's a big linkerve for me. And then

1261
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 17: I'm also very big Merceidos fan, so it was great

1262
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 17: seeing all these old models with the Yeah, beautiful colors

1263
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 17: and lines, I.

1264
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 7: Mean rarety is the issue there? Hey, isn't that provenance?

1265
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:45,719
Speaker 17: Yes?

1266
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 7: What do you mean by provenance?

1267
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 17: The history of it owned it, the history of the work,

1268
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 17: sorry off the car, Yes, who owned it? Where did

1269
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 17: this come from? And they're just the background story of

1270
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 17: that particular car, I would Yeah.

1271
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 2: Is the way that market works very different to the

1272
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 2: art market.

1273
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:11,679
Speaker 17: Well, certainly the clientele was a little bit different, and

1274
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 17: I actually loved engaging with that market, But as I mentioned,

1275
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 17: they look for exactly the same thing. So in the end,

1276
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 17: it was quite easy to consult on a specific vehicle

1277
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 17: because it's the quality, rarity, as you mentioned, and design

1278
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 17: and the story behind it. We found that also with

1279
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 17: art people, collectors are really really interested in the story

1280
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 17: behind that item, and that's actually what they buy. It's

1281
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 17: this beautiful, unique story.

1282
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 7: Please tell me these cars get driven at some point, Yes, I.

1283
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 17: Do they do? Yes, yes they do.

1284
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 7: I mean I presume not often that they do.

1285
01:12:56,720 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 17: Yeah, no they do. Yah know, these are quite passionate people,

1286
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 17: you know, about their cars. And I've also learned there

1287
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 17: are these clubs on Sundays they do breakfast runs and

1288
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 17: so forth. So yeah, they do get driven.

1289
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 2: I cannot confirm or deny if I've ever been in

1290
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 2: one of those, but yes, I know what you meant.

1291
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,839
Speaker 17: But then also another thing is this year we started

1292
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 17: with fine and rare wines as well, and that was

1293
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 17: also such a great journey. We currently have a wine

1294
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 17: auction running that we call the Sailors or the Collectors Seller,

1295
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 17: and again, fabulous people are looking for collectors are looking

1296
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 17: for provenance, the history, the culture, and then a story

1297
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:42,720
Speaker 17: as well. So it's again quite interesting to engage with

1298
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 17: that market.

1299
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 2: Excuse me, I presume that there are kind of seasons

1300
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 2: of moments where you can probably be quite busy, lots

1301
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 2: of people coming to you, and there's seasons where people don't.

1302
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 2: But how do you attract customers? And I would imagine

1303
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 2: there's a lot of word of mouth, maybe quite a

1304
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 2: lot of social media or something like that.

1305
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 17: Yes, absolutely so First of all, it's personal relationships, so

1306
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:14,720
Speaker 17: we actually spend a lot of time interacting directly with

1307
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,679
Speaker 17: our clients. So these are relationships that we build over many,

1308
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:22,519
Speaker 17: many years, and we drink a lot of coffee and

1309
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 17: tea with our clients. But then it is word of mouth. Again,

1310
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 17: as I mentioned when we started talking, introduction is quite

1311
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 17: important and it's actually also a good sign if people

1312
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 17: trust you with their works or trust to buy from you.

1313
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 17: So introduction is quite importance. And then auction realing is

1314
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,600
Speaker 17: like a machine. So there are these auction platforms that

1315
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 17: we subscribe to, so a lot of collectors will subscribe

1316
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 17: to the same platforms as well, and then they get

1317
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 17: no educations of our auction and of certain lots that

1318
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 17: are coming up. Yes, also ideas of social media, which

1319
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 17: is currently a very strong marketing tool, and we write

1320
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:10,639
Speaker 17: a lot of articles and try to get that out

1321
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 17: in the media. And then and then also our in

1322
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 17: journal emailers and newsletters, so we usually you know, motivate

1323
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 17: people to sign up to our newsletters to stay informed.

1324
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 2: Where did your first clients come from? Our the least,

1325
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 2: because that would have been important to you, and in

1326
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 2: my experience, most people who go out on their own

1327
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:35,880
Speaker 2: or start something, take clients with them that they've met

1328
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 2: already before somewhere.

1329
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:42,600
Speaker 17: So yeah, certainly, when I worked in the primary industry

1330
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 17: at the gallery, so I was in a position where

1331
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 17: I sold a lot of art too, many of the

1332
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:51,679
Speaker 17: collectors that I'm still working with, and so that's where

1333
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 17: a lot of these friendships and relationships were both and

1334
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 17: then when I moved on to Aspire and actually they

1335
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 17: came Wesley or just studied in contact. But it's technitally,

1336
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 17: it was technically when I worked in the primary industry

1337
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 17: and literally working almost as a filed person in the gallery.

1338
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 2: We've got twenty seconds left. But from everything that you've said,

1339
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 2: it seems to me that despite being in this game

1340
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 2: since two thousand and seven, you still find it fascinating.

1341
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 17: I love it. I love it. Every day doesn't feel

1342
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 17: like work, and you learn something new every day. And

1343
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 17: it's what we do. We both collections, we both collections

1344
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 17: of value and just to place these works in the

1345
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 17: most interesting private collections from Mum collections. It's really loudly

1346
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 17: and we work with the stuff of history. What we

1347
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:49,600
Speaker 17: do today is going to be written about in the

1348
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:54,520
Speaker 17: history book of tomorrow. So I absolutely love this industry

1349
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 17: and this stuff.

1350
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 7: I can hear it.

1351
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:58,639
Speaker 2: Mari Lis onan sale, Thank you so much, Really appreciate

1352
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:03,480
Speaker 2: the time I've enjoyed talking to you. The CEO Aspire Art.

1353
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:07,320
Speaker 13: The Money Show, Stephen Croutis is brought to you by APPS,

1354
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:11,680
Speaker 13: a cib proud host of the Africa Impact Matters series podcast.

1355
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:14,879
Speaker 13: Perhaps an authorized FSP and registered credit provider.

1356
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 2: Another day, another tech rally on US markets. The Dow

1357
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:21,639
Speaker 2: Jones up point four to three, the NASDAQAUP at two

1358
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 2: point four to four, the S and P five hundred

1359
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:27,719
Speaker 2: up one point four to three. Tonight, it does seem

1360
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 2: that there are more hopes of an interest rate increased.

1361
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 2: Don't forget Personal finance ron Ingram live and in person

1362
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:36,400
Speaker 2: in our studio tomorrow. Looking forward to that good evening.

1363
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 2: It's eight oclock