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Speaker 1: The Money Show on seven oh two. Let's walk to Talk.

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Speaker 2: On ninety two point seven or one oh six e

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Speaker 2: them and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: Thirteen minutes. Night is past six o'clock. The Money Show

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Speaker 3: with Me Africa milanib with setting in for Stephen Quotas

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Speaker 3: Rather is brought to you by APSAR Corporate Investment Banking,

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Speaker 3: proud sponsor of GTR Africa twenty twenty six enabling Trade

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Speaker 3: Flows for Growth. APPSA is a registered FSP. We must

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Speaker 3: apologize for that much delayed start to the show today.

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Speaker 3: Gremlin's in the system which seemed to have been addressed

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Speaker 3: for the moment. Coming up on the show that we'll

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Speaker 3: be speaking to the chief executive of the MTN Group

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Speaker 3: on the solid set of results. The chief executive of

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Speaker 3: Sun International will also be joining us on the show.

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Speaker 1: Later.

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Speaker 3: We'll then speak to the CEO of the National Financial

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Speaker 3: onbard Scheme. They highlighting how artificial intelligence is beginning to

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Speaker 3: affect dispute resolution in South Africa's financial sector. And then

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Speaker 3: we're going to be shunning the spotlight in the seven

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Speaker 3: o'clock hour on auctions finding a new market in South

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Speaker 3: Africa's townships. We'll be speaking to the founder of Loction Auctions,

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Speaker 3: and we're asking you what would you buy.

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Speaker 1: From an auction a locchine.

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Speaker 3: All you have to do is what's a bus two

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Speaker 3: seven two seven oh two one seven oh two o

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Speaker 3: seven two five six seven one five six seven. You

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Speaker 3: can either text or send a voice note what would

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Speaker 3: you buy from an auction a locchini. We'll be speaking

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Speaker 3: to the founder of loction Auctions at about half past

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Speaker 3: seven this evening.

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Speaker 1: The Money Show on seven oh two. Please move to

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Speaker 1: Tour station.

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Speaker 2: On ninety two point seven or one oh six even

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Speaker 2: and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: We are paying attention, of course to developments in the

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Speaker 3: Middle East. The later is coming out of Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 3: is that they're giving their long term oil customers the

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Speaker 3: option of receiving their allocations for April via the Red

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Speaker 3: Sea port of Yanboo as it prepares for lengthy disruptions

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Speaker 3: in the Strait of Homus. Buyers who choose Yanboo will

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Speaker 3: only get a portion of their monthly supply. That's due

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Speaker 3: to constraints on how much crude the pipeline to the

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Speaker 3: port can carry. That we will be asking where the

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Speaker 3: alternative sources of potential crude oil could come from for

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Speaker 3: South Africa. The Minister Guenemantache at a conference here in

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Speaker 3: Cape Town earlier today, indicating that they will need to

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Speaker 3: seek alternative sources. Much of our supply does come from

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Speaker 3: the Middle East because we need to purchase refined crude oil.

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Speaker 3: We've lost half of our capacity to refine oil, which

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Speaker 3: means areas such as Bahrain, for example, Oman parts of

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Speaker 3: the Middle East is where we source a significant portion

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Speaker 3: of our oil. The minister also confirming that we will

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Speaker 3: be paying a significant surge in the price of oil

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Speaker 3: come April, confirming of course the department's sort of figures

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Speaker 3: that have been shared so far, and we could pay

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Speaker 3: as much as seven random liter more than what you

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Speaker 3: are paying right now. The sort of final figure will

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Speaker 3: be clearer as we edge closer to the end of March,

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Speaker 3: so we will be certainly paying attention to developments in

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Speaker 3: the Middle East. The rand strengthening today as a softer

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Speaker 3: dollar helped offset fading hopes for a near term interst

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Speaker 3: rate cut by the US Federal Reserve due to elevated

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Speaker 3: energy prices. The green back was down zero point four

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Speaker 3: percent against the basket of currencies the country's benchmark twenty

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Speaker 3: thirty five government bond also stronger today as a yield

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Speaker 3: foul two percent basis points to eight point nine one percent.

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Speaker 1: So we are.

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Speaker 3: Seeing some rather slight green shoots in the market, but

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Speaker 3: we are having some challenges that are being brought on

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Speaker 3: of course by the conflict in the Middle East and

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Speaker 3: other challenges in South Africa. Will be chatting to old

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Speaker 3: mutuals Tanamonge for the market comments later on this half

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Speaker 3: an hour.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show on seven owns.

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Speaker 1: Monday to Friday, six to eight pm BM.

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Speaker 3: Let's go to that very good result from the MTN Group.

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Speaker 3: They turned a profit of over twenty seven billion rand

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Speaker 3: as a company breaks the three hundred million customer mark.

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Speaker 3: They are the biggest telecommunications company on the African continent.

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Speaker 3: And joining me on the line is the chief executive

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Speaker 3: for MTN Group. That's Ralf MOPEA. Ralf. Firstly, a hearty

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Speaker 3: congratulations on a very solid set of financials. It seems

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Speaker 3: that we're driven by improvements in market forces, I suppose

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Speaker 3: in both Nigeria and Ghana.

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Speaker 1: For you, good evening, yeah.

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Speaker 4: Good evening, good evening to your list. And I wanted

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Speaker 4: to say that the results were actually a bit more

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Speaker 4: broad based than just Ghana and Nigeria. Of course Ghana

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Speaker 4: Nigeria did a lot of heavy lifting, but at the

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Speaker 4: service revenue level, we grew at twenty two point seven

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Speaker 4: percent a year and year. That is the highest we've

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Speaker 4: grown since two thousand and eight. And we have broad

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Speaker 4: based growth coming from markets like Zambia. We saw good

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Speaker 4: turn around in our Zambia operation, Cameroon in a sterling

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Speaker 4: set of results there, so it's pretty broad based and

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Speaker 4: that top line growth, you know, reflected in the earnings

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Speaker 4: which were up sixty seven percent, operating free cash flow

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Speaker 4: almost eighty two percent, and our return on equity was

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Speaker 4: above our target of twenty five. So really pleased with

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Speaker 4: the results which were delivered, you know, through strong commercial

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Speaker 4: momentum across our markets.

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Speaker 1: South Africa being resilient.

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Speaker 3: What are your focus areas for South Africa to turn

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Speaker 3: your fortunes to sparkly prospectors, No.

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Speaker 4: South Africa is a story of two halves. The half

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Speaker 4: of our business is consumer prepaid. We have over twenty

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Speaker 4: seven million you know customers that are using our services

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Speaker 4: and the prepaid market has been very competitive and actually

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Speaker 4: we adjusted our guidance last year to deal with the

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Speaker 4: competitiveness issues of you know, off the market. You know,

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Speaker 4: we've seen a very robust and UH you know Telcom

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Speaker 4: in the market, and so you have three players kind

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Speaker 4: of going at it UH in that market. And we

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Speaker 4: saw our service revenue down four point four percent UH

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Speaker 4: in that part of the market, which is half the

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Speaker 4: service revenue. On the post paid side consumer post paid

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Speaker 4: you know, a monthly contracts as well as enterprise, the

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Speaker 4: growth was actually very pleasing. So in the in those

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Speaker 4: two parts of the business we're growing in line and

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Speaker 4: in some parts ahead of expectation. So for us, the

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Speaker 4: big thing is to turn around the essay prepaid. We've

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Speaker 4: adjusted our items down particular margins to be able to

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Speaker 4: invest more in cells and distribution. We're making changes to

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Speaker 4: how we think about airtime advanced airtime credit. So we're

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Speaker 4: going to have probably another quarter or two of challenges

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Speaker 4: in South Africa. I think you will start to see

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Speaker 4: the resurgence in the South African operation. We have a

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Speaker 4: new management team, a leadership team there as well, and

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Speaker 4: feel pretty confident that by Q three we should be

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Speaker 4: seeing green shoots, if not even strong results coming out

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Speaker 4: of MT and Essay.

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Speaker 3: You are concerned understandably about the escalating geopolitical risks here

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Speaker 3: we're talking Middle East. I suppose more immediately, but the

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Speaker 3: Ukraine Russia war that continues to carry on four years later,

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Speaker 3: this will have an impact on the prospects for mt

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Speaker 3: and Group wanted.

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Speaker 4: I think the contracts are seeing more broadly in Europe

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Speaker 4: and in the Middle East. I mean, these are of

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Speaker 4: a global nature and they're not specific to MTN. But

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Speaker 4: the way we think about it is, you know, how

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Speaker 4: do we remain resilient in this current macro. So we're

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Speaker 4: looking at everything. You know, what are the cost of

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Speaker 4: chipsets and how do we need to think about how

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Speaker 4: we procure and where we procure from. Obviously oil prices

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Speaker 4: and you know, become an issue certainly in the near term.

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Speaker 4: When we look at our contracts for tower cos, certainly

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Speaker 4: for the first quarter we look pretty okay. I guess

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Speaker 4: if the war moves able to Q two, they'll broader

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Speaker 4: global impacts, uh and these will impact ourselves. So you know,

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Speaker 4: we are using our usual tools and approaches at managing

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Speaker 4: in an uncertain global macro. But I think our key

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Speaker 4: areas of focus will be energy because our sites many

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Speaker 4: of our sites use diesel and making sure that there's

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Speaker 4: diesel availability in Nigeria actually at the Dunotte refinery you know,

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Speaker 4: is quite supportive. So a little bit of a shield

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Speaker 4: there in terms of you know, diesel price for the towers.

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Speaker 4: Most of our towers in Nigeria on diesel, and then

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Speaker 4: in the network servers and chipsets, we're watching what's happening

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Speaker 4: more globally. We have a finite cap ex symblope which

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Speaker 4: we'll use to spend, but we'll spend it wisely in

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Speaker 4: a risk mitigated way as well.

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Speaker 3: Ralph, congratulations once again a really solid set of results.

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Speaker 3: The chief executive of Empty and Group, Ralph Mapita, following

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Speaker 3: a very very lovely set of results. I imagine for

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Speaker 3: anyone who's invested in Emptyn Group.

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Speaker 5: We're watching this talk together every hour every day.

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Speaker 1: This is seven and two. Let's walk the talk.

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Speaker 3: So the Minerals and Energy Minister Guender Mantasha, speaking at

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Speaker 3: a conference in Cape Town earlier today, saying that South

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Speaker 3: Africa is racing to secure fuel supplies from alternative sources

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Speaker 3: as that conflict in the Middle East continues. Enemy on

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Speaker 3: the line now is Timothy Walker. He's a senior researcher

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Speaker 3: on maritime security at the Institute for Security Studies, and

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Speaker 3: I suppose the media question, Timothy is can we actually

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Speaker 3: find alternative markets? Are they available for us to tap

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Speaker 3: into to obviously offset the growing challenges.

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Speaker 1: In that middle is conflict. Good evening.

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Speaker 6: The Africa. Good evening and to everyone listening and thank

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Speaker 6: you for having me on the show. There is supply

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Speaker 6: around the world. The amount of oil that's been on

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Speaker 6: fuel that's been taken out of the global supply by

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Speaker 6: the closure of the straight orform MOOS is substantial. The

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Speaker 6: problem are the two main problems I think for South

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Speaker 6: Africa involve competition with other importers who need or rather

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Speaker 6: are prepared to pay a premium which perhaps we can't reach.

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Speaker 6: And also the compatibility of many of the crude oil

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Speaker 6: supplies which are available. We're importing them to be refined

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Speaker 6: in our refineries. Some of the places are not suitable

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Speaker 6: they're too heavy, for instance, or we're looking to get

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Speaker 6: a lot of more of the low sulfur what's called

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Speaker 6: sweet crude option, which we already get a lot of

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Speaker 6: from particular Nigeria and Angola. Those are two of our

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Speaker 6: major suppliers. Saudi Arabia is also is another one as well.

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Speaker 6: It'll be interesting to see if the Saudis are able

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Speaker 6: to up production on their west coast facility at Yamboo,

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Speaker 6: because if we're able to purchase oil from there, it

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Speaker 6: won't be as much as we need or fuel as

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Speaker 6: much as we need, but it will certainly play a

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Speaker 6: large part in relieving some of the burdens.

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Speaker 3: In fact, Soa Arabia I'm announcing not too long ago

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Speaker 3: that it's giving its long term oil customers the option

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Speaker 3: of receiving their allocation for April via the Red Sea

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Speaker 3: port of Yanbu, and that even that will be constrained

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Speaker 3: depending on how much the crude can actually be verry

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Speaker 3: through the pipeline. There were not a long term customer

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Speaker 3: of Saudi Arabia's are.

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Speaker 6: We We are in a sense we rely on a

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Speaker 6: lot of I think sometimes spot trading from other sources,

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Speaker 6: but no in terms of Saudi Arabia, they're very limited

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Speaker 6: in terms of what they do for spot trading or

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Speaker 6: you know, sort of buying paying a premium to pick

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Speaker 6: up something pumped out of the refinery. Then and there

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Speaker 6: we do have I think longer term contracts which are

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Speaker 6: very important in that regard. One of the things which

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Speaker 6: I didn't mention just now, but I think is important

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Speaker 6: to emphasise, is that a lot of the Saudi options

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Speaker 6: for alleviation of the crunch do depend on the Huti

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Speaker 6: in the coast of Yemen not disrupting passage through that

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Speaker 6: part of above our mendev straight So ships effectively heading

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Speaker 6: south out into the Indian Ocean is what they are

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Speaker 6: banking on. In the sense, if we're looking at ships

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Speaker 6: then having to divert around through the Service Canal, through

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Speaker 6: the Mediterranean and around the whole coast of Africa. Africa,

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Speaker 6: that's where the problems are going to become coming in.

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Speaker 1: That is worrying.

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Speaker 3: Actually, I mean ports of course along I suppose the

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Speaker 3: coast of Africa, particularly Cap of Good Hope, might benefit

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Speaker 3: from some of the unintended windfall, but it will, as

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Speaker 3: you say, highlight a lot of challenges for anyone who's

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Speaker 3: looking to purchase oil.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we still need to see whether our ports are

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Speaker 6: going to be a preferred option for many shipping companies

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Speaker 6: or ship owners who are choosing to come around the Cape. Now,

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Speaker 6: they don't often still enter Cape Town Princess or Durban

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Speaker 6: for bunkering fuels, or I'll go a bay where there

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Speaker 6: are several ships available to do offshore bunkering. What we're

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Speaker 6: noticing is potentially an uptake in offshore port services, you know,

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Speaker 6: cruise changes for instance, because more ships taking the Cape

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Speaker 6: route taking a longer route as well with maybe less

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Speaker 6: food than they were usually going to buy or purchase.

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Speaker 6: Means that So Africa does potentially have a very important

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Speaker 6: role to play there in terms of supplying vessels going

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Speaker 6: around the Cape. Yes, but otherwise the majority of vessels

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Speaker 6: do tend to go around the Cape as well. One

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Speaker 6: thing as well, just to emphasize, as the Minister also

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Speaker 6: use the opportunity of speaking at the conference today to

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Speaker 6: re emphasize some of our own offshore sources around South Africa.

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Speaker 6: In particular, I talked of oaten Eco Basin which is

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Speaker 6: where the Purul padder and lapored sources were discovered several

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Speaker 6: years ago. But we still going to face several commercial challenges.

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Speaker 6: One of the options is to increase your own domestic production.

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Speaker 6: We have very very minimal domestic oil or fuel production,

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Speaker 6: but that there is an option there to be pursued.

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Speaker 6: But the regulations to govern that have only been submitted

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Speaker 6: last year and they're still making their way through Parliament

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Speaker 6: as well. So one of the options being raised maybe

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Speaker 6: for the medium term is replacing some of the imported

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Speaker 6: fuel and oil with our own sourced from our own territory.

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Speaker 6: Water is an exclusive zone, but that's also going to

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Speaker 6: take some time as well, it seems.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And what we know from the Minister also is that

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Speaker 3: we're absolutely going to see a price surge as far

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Speaker 3: as the price of fuel is concerned come October. Timothy,

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Speaker 3: thank you very much. Indeed, Timothy Walker, Senior Research on

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Speaker 3: Maritime Security at the Institute of Security Studies.

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Speaker 1: Show Mark.

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Speaker 3: And joining us today is Tana Mongway. Tana is with

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Speaker 3: the old mutual Investment Group at Tana. The strength the

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Speaker 3: rand rather strengthening today as a software dollar, helped to

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Speaker 3: offset fading hopes of a near term interest rate cut

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Speaker 3: by the US Federal Reserve due to the elevated energy prices.

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Speaker 3: We should note that the greenback was down zero point

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Speaker 3: four percent against the basket of currencies, but also the

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Speaker 3: country's benchmark at twenty thirty five government bond stronger today

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Speaker 3: as a yield foul two basis points to eight point

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Speaker 3: nine one percent.

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Speaker 7: Good evening, an African good evening to your listeners. Yes,

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Speaker 7: I mean, look, I suppose even before the Middle East

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Speaker 7: War began, we actually saw a stronger a stronger rand

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Speaker 7: falling bond deals, which obviously has been good for the consumer.

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Speaker 7: You know, the target to a three percent CPI over

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Speaker 7: the medium term all positive for the consumer, showcasing you know,

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Speaker 7: some reforms in South Africa coming through, but also strong

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Speaker 7: flows from from the mining sector. Given the PGM prices

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Speaker 7: goal prices.

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Speaker 3: Over the last year, we saw some very good set

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Speaker 3: of results from nt N Group. First spoke a moment

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Speaker 3: ago to the chief executive, Ralph Mopita.

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Speaker 7: I think a really good sort of result and you

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Speaker 7: can actually even see it with the with the shape

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Speaker 7: price performance and outside of the strong service revenue growth

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Speaker 7: and you know cash flow growth and earnings growth, underline

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Speaker 7: growth is still strong. I mean you're seeing it with

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Speaker 7: the subscriber numbers that are still growing. Active data subcribers,

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Speaker 7: not subscriber numbers still growing as well, particularly in Nigeria.

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Speaker 7: Dividend up forty five percent. You can see the capital

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Speaker 7: allocation framework driving returns for shareholders. Overall, they've been uppers

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Speaker 7: They've outperformed some of the medium term targets and quite

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Speaker 7: a quite a very good result for Empty n Nigeria

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Speaker 7: has always been an issue given oil and an iron

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Speaker 7: and so forth, but I think given the strong set

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Speaker 7: of Nigeria results speaks to the stability within the region,

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Speaker 7: within the naira and going into the higher oil environment

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Speaker 7: now should benefit them.

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Speaker 3: To MTM group share price going up seven percent on

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Speaker 3: the day, another good result as well for Sun International

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Speaker 3: day share price up nearly ten percent of the day.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, they also had a really good capital market day,

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Speaker 7: once again re emphasizing, you know, the growth trajectory of

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Speaker 7: this group. They've done really well since you know, quivered

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Speaker 7: in the lockdowns and so forth. But revenue was up,

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Speaker 7: you know, particularly driven by the nine pitting part of

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Speaker 7: their business, Sundpit, which was up seventy six percent, and

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Speaker 7: in particular, in a couple of market to day management

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Speaker 7: outline the growth trajectory for this business and for the

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Speaker 7: industry as a whole, with goals of almost doubling market

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Speaker 7: share and so forth. I mean, we are still seeing,

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Speaker 7: you know, a slow down in the land based casinos

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Speaker 7: where a centin National scott and a dominant market share.

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Speaker 7: But you know management has got priorities and actions to

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Speaker 7: drive up the efficiencies in turn that business around. But

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Speaker 7: they're still defending market change. Doing quite well the land

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Speaker 7: based casinos as well.

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Speaker 3: We will be speaking to the CEO of SOUN International

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Speaker 3: in about twenty minutes. Tanna, thank you very much. Indeed,

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Speaker 3: put Frondow manager with Old Mutual Investment Group. That's Tanna

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Speaker 3: long way. It does bring the time to six thirty two.

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Speaker 5: Walking this talk together every hour every day. This is

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Speaker 5: seven and two.

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Speaker 1: Let's walk the talk.

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Speaker 3: Optasia is a financial infrastructure platform serving the banked customers

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Speaker 3: in emerging markets. Well, they've exceeded their guidance that they

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Speaker 3: gave to investors at it's jac listing in November with

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Speaker 3: revenue up seventy six percent to two hundred and sixty

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Speaker 3: five million dollars, well ahead of its forty percent target.

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Speaker 3: Joining me via Zoom is the group chief executive officer.

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Speaker 3: That Salvado. I'm glad that Salvador Horg congratulations. What do

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Speaker 3: you attribute to success.

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Speaker 8: To HI Africa? Well, I think we are performing well.

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Speaker 8: We are executing well in our plan. We have a

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Speaker 8: fantastic year twenty twenty five. As you know, we were

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Speaker 8: able to ipe our business and well the whole guidance

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Speaker 8: that we provide has been builded at this stage in

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Speaker 8: the growth side, profitability, also the nets income. But even

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Speaker 8: more important than that that it's important, of course, I

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Speaker 8: mean the how the business is progressing, opening up new countries,

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Speaker 8: being able to extend that our services only in Africa

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Speaker 8: but also in Asia and provide services to for more

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Speaker 8: than four hundred million customers last year. This is a

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Speaker 8: very important part of all what we're doing and we

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Speaker 8: want to continue doing in the future.

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Speaker 3: Those new markets were important, but you brought new deployments

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Speaker 3: into those markets as well, including micro financing solutions.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 8: I mean it's not only the new countries that we

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Speaker 8: were able to open up in micro finance solutions in Cameroon.

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Speaker 8: We did the same in Congo in Ghana.

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Speaker 9: So yes, I mean you are right.

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Speaker 8: For us, it's a combination of existing deployments, existing countries

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Speaker 8: and the new ones that will be mature in some.

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Speaker 1: Quarters from here.

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Speaker 9: You are absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: Global fintech has generally been seen as the I suppose

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Speaker 3: domain of the privilege. Right You generally well with disposable income,

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Speaker 3: journey educated have access two technologies. What have been some

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Speaker 3: of the challenges you've had to overcome in taking this

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Speaker 3: platform into the emerging market.

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Speaker 8: Well, I think we have been able to learn a

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Speaker 8: lot and to demonstrate that the model that we have

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Speaker 8: is the one that is working.

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Speaker 1: You know that we partner with local entities.

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Speaker 8: Normally we call it distribution partress, could be tail course

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Speaker 8: or could be digital banks, and what we are able

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Speaker 8: to educate the market in the usage of those services.

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Speaker 8: As you know, we do not get any warranty an

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Speaker 8: equilateral We just relied on the technology to provide credit

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Speaker 8: to provide loans to people.

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Speaker 9: So it's a journey.

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Speaker 8: One of the things that we have done is to

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Speaker 8: underwrite the full risk as a company, so we take

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Speaker 8: the full risk of payment and that gives a lot

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Speaker 8: of comforward to our partners in order to move forward

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Speaker 8: to the AGA. Because we have vari eights, we have

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Speaker 8: presents in thy eight countries, I would say we are

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Speaker 8: making it's making our life easy to penetrate. Maybe the

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Speaker 8: other factor that we need to handle is the regulation

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Speaker 8: to be sure that regulator understand properly what is microfinance,

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Speaker 8: what is digital lending, and well regulate not only as

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Speaker 8: a financial entity, but as a micro financial entity, this

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Speaker 8: is another battle that we are playing. But I believe

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Speaker 8: again just because of the success in one country to

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Speaker 8: the others, everybody is learning and everybody says that is

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Speaker 8: a need for people that I'm bank people that they

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Speaker 8: don't have access to any type of credit and by

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Speaker 8: doing that, we are incorporating them in the in the

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Speaker 8: system and allowing them to use this money for different purposes.

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Speaker 3: Finally, you've acquired Finergy, which is a technology company that

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Speaker 3: provides real time credit access through three through pre paid

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Speaker 3: electricity systems. How do you think this investment is going

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Speaker 3: to help your company grow.

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Speaker 1: All?

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Speaker 8: I think it's gonna be for us. It's a very strategic,

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Speaker 8: great investment. We were always looking for additial that we

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Speaker 8: call it verticals have We provide airtime credit solutions and

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Speaker 8: you know very well we provide micro finance and this

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Speaker 8: is going to allow us to provide credit on the

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Speaker 8: meter side, so allow people to get credit. As you know,

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Speaker 8: the utility system and the electricitystem across Africa is mainly prepaid.

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Speaker 8: By doing that, I mean we will provide that credit,

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Speaker 8: they can use it and I can pay later on

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Speaker 8: helping them also with the cash flow management. The potential

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Speaker 8: of this business in Africa today we estimate in terms

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Speaker 8: of lending or electricity lending could be around ten billion

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Speaker 8: dollars and it will grow and could tugle in the

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Speaker 8: next ten years. We really believe it's gonna be one

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Speaker 8: of the engines of growth Opoptasia, not now, but definitely

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Speaker 8: in the coming two through three years. It's gonna be

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Speaker 8: one of these growth engines and it will create additional

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Speaker 8: value for our sharehold.

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Speaker 3: Once again, congratulations, a wonderful, phenomenal result today. Salvado Anglada

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Speaker 3: is the chief executive officer of Optasia, really delivering exceptional results,

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Speaker 3: way ahead of the guidance they're offered when they listed

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Speaker 3: on the JSE in November last year.

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Speaker 10: The Money Show Stephen Croutez is brought to you by

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Speaker 10: APPS Corporate and Investment backing proud sponsors of GTR Africa

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Speaker 10: twenty twenty six enabling trade flows for growth. PHAPS is

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00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 10: a registered FSB.

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Speaker 3: Ten minutes Star is two seven o'clock Sun International declaring

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Speaker 3: a special dividend and seeing the share price surging nearly

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Speaker 3: ten percent on the day's trading. This following the release

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Speaker 3: of its latest financial results. Joining me on the line

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Speaker 3: is the chief executive of Sun International, Urrich Bankston Urrish

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Speaker 3: of very good evening, Congratulations on what was once again

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Speaker 3: a solid set results for you.

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Speaker 6: Thank you, I forgat thanks for having me. Yes, solid

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Speaker 6: set of results. Seven percent growth on the top line

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Speaker 6: and about three percent on our adjusted earning. So yeah,

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Speaker 6: we're recently happy with that.

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Speaker 3: All right, what do you attribute these success to, aris? So,

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Speaker 3: I think the story is really below the top numbers.

442
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 6: If you look at our various business areas Sun that

443
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 6: is performing incredibly well eighty percent growth in the second

444
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 6: half of the year. But our land bus casinos are

445
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 6: also doing really well at completely outperforming market. We're down

446
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 6: two and nine percent, but the market is down over

447
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 6: six percent, so it's a pretty solid outperformance. And we

448
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 6: have a whole program in place to continue to drive

449
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 6: growth and change the trajectory of that business, which we're

450
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 6: very excited about. Then we have our Sun slots of business,

451
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 6: our LPM business, very resilient growth two percent, and we

452
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 6: see the potential for future growth there for a long time.

453
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 6: And of course our hospitality business with some city. We've

454
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 6: invested four hundred million in some city over the last

455
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 6: two years in refurbishing the Palace some City hotel, which

456
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 6: is now extraordinary experience and we can see some of

457
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 6: that paying off.

458
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 3: You have indicated that twenty twenty five was a transition

459
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 3: year for the group in particularly particular, rather the second

460
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 3: half of the year that's saw the company assess its

461
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 3: potential and operational capabilities. You've agreed on a five year

462
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 3: value creation plan. Are you able to give us some

463
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: insight into that plan?

464
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 6: Absolutely. So it's a plan, a very detailed outlines how

465
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 6: we are going to invest in, how we're going to

466
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 6: unlock value for our shareholders, and it's really centered around

467
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 6: more big sort of value driving logics. The first one

468
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 6: being drive market share in some debt, and we have

469
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 6: technology and product to back that up. Second one is

470
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 6: to change the trajectory of our land based casino, and

471
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 6: we have investments in operational procedures and operational excellence as

472
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 6: well as product to back that up. And then we

473
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 6: have the unlocking of the sustainable growth in a slat

474
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 6: sun slots business really given that this is a mandate

475
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 6: to grow through again better product and better site selection.

476
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 6: And then finally, you know, reviewing our hospitality portfolio to

477
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 6: make sure, we invest where it's core to us to

478
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 6: invest and find solutions for those properties that might be underperforming.

479
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 3: One of those properties, of course that is a jewel

480
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 3: in the group is the Table Bay Hotel which is

481
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: at the VNA Waterfront, which has undergone some renovations and

482
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 3: will be opening, if not already actually intimately on the

483
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,719
Speaker 3: back end of last year. Yeah, yeah, oh fantastic. What

484
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 3: are the plans for that asset?

485
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 6: So it's gone through, as you say, a full renovation,

486
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 6: opened up at the back end of last year. It's

487
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 6: now coordinary property arguably you know, the most significant property

488
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 6: and special property in Cape Town as on the hotel market.

489
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,959
Speaker 6: So I really urge everyone to stay at night and

490
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 6: go have a dinner and check it out. It's incredible.

491
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 3: But back to Sandbet, I mean that was the defining

492
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 3: feature I think of your full year results out growing

493
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 3: seventy point seven percent in the first half of twenty

494
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: twenty five alone, bringing the group eight hundred and seventy

495
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 3: four million round.

496
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, now, very strong performance on some that driven of

497
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 6: course by the entire market dynamics that digital is or

498
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 6: customers want to interact regardless of category in a digital way,

499
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 6: and also back by you know, our strong performance operationally,

500
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 6: everything from marketing to products. So we continue to invest

501
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 6: and we continue to build capabilities in some that to

502
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 6: make sure that they are part of the future growth

503
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 6: of this market.

504
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, you declared a final cash ordinary dividend of two

505
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 3: hundreds and fifty two cents per share, lifting the total

506
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 3: ordinary dividend for the full year to four hundreds and

507
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 3: twenty four cents per share. That's a six point five

508
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 3: increase in what you paid out in twenty twenty four.

509
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 3: Can you investors, your shareholders expect a similar performance in

510
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 3: the years to come?

511
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I stay away from doing forecasts, but

512
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 6: one I can say is that the start of the

513
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 6: year has been in line from a revenue perspective of

514
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 6: the second half of twenty twenty five. So so far,

515
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 6: so good. But well, it's too early to say how

516
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 6: the year pans out.

517
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 3: Very clever, or Rick, because I would then replay this

518
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 3: interviewer year from now and say, you had promised this

519
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: to your shareholders, ed why did you not deliver?

520
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: But it is?

521
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 3: It is truly a strong set of results, and I

522
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 3: imagine much much to celebrate for you and your.

523
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: Team, or thank you very much the chief executive of.

524
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 3: Sun International or Bangston Bank stin rather speaking to us,

525
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 3: of course, following a phenomenal result that was announced by

526
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 3: Sun International showing a strong result for twenty to twenty five.

527
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 2: The money money on seven Monday to Friday, six to

528
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: a pm.

529
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 3: All right, in the next hour, we'll be talking about

530
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 3: how AI generated complaints are complicating consumer complaints in South Africa.

531
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 3: Will be speaking to Rhianna Stein, who is the chief

532
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 3: executive of the National Financial Ombard Scheme, about how artificial

533
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: intelligence is beginning to affect dispute resolution in the country's

534
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 3: financial sector. They have complainants that are generating extremely long submissions,

535
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: sometimes running up to one hundred and fifty pages and

536
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 3: often citing fabricated legal cases that still have to be

537
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: verified by investigators. Have you had reason to lodge a

538
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: complaint with the National Financial Onboard Scheme? Have you relied

539
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 3: on AI in order to generate that complaint? And has

540
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 3: that helped or hindered the ability of the onbard to

541
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 3: actually do the work that they need to do. You

542
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 3: can atcher pass two seven two seven, two one seven

543
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 3: two or seven two five six seven one five six

544
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: seven and share with us what your experience has been well,

545
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 3: then speak to Bronnan Williams, a trend translator and future

546
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: finance specialist at Flux Trends. Brodwin has been reviewing Mino

547
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 3: Joseph's Why the Poor Don't Kill Us. There will be

548
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: diving into the books sharp and settling questions about inequality,

549
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: about quiet rage, and the fragile piece that holds societies together.

550
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 3: Looking forward to Brandnan's review of the book at about

551
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 3: twenty past seven, and then I'll be talking about Loction Auctions,

552
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 3: which is a business focus on bringing the formal auction

553
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 3: model into South Africa's township economies. Will be speaking to

554
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: its founder Tis Sadai. And ahead of that, I really

555
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 3: want to know whether or not there are objects that

556
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: you would purchase from an auction in the township. Immediately,

557
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 3: I think of some of the furniture that is owned

558
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 3: or used to be owned by our grandparents and our

559
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 3: parents that perhaps is accumulated value over time and would

560
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 3: enable you to extract value from that furniture. What would

561
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: that item be that you would consider purchasing from an auction?

562
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 3: A Logashini, as indicated, will be speaking to Titso Satai,

563
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 3: founder of loction auctions at about half past seven, just

564
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 3: after the EW and update there from my GI at

565
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 3: about half past seven. Some of the messages that are

566
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 3: coming into seven two seven two one seven o two

567
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: seven to five six seven one five six seven. Somebody

568
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 3: asking about matters pertaining to oil, talking about crude oil

569
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: and high sulfur too high for South Africa to process.

570
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 3: I was involved in coltext Capetown now astron to process

571
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: and convert the plant to this crude via special processes

572
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight. Or they're about suggests you verify

573
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 3: if sme keep up the good show, love it, such

574
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 3: as somebody on the whatsupp line like Stephen, if you'd

575
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 3: like to send in a message, you know the numbers

576
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: oh seven two seven oh two one seven oh two

577
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 3: oh seven two five six seven one five six seven.

578
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 3: You can either send in a text or a voice note.

579
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 3: Chiefly I want to find out what is it, what

580
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: item of furniture of piece of art would you like

581
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 3: to purchase from an auction that will mining if you like,

582
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: will be mining the wonderful, wonderful properties that are available

583
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: at Lukshini. Do send those WhatsApp messages and voice notes

584
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 3: to seven two seven O two one seven O two

585
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 3: oh seven two five six seven one five six seven

586
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 3: at Sitzo Sadai, the founder of Loction Auctions, will be

587
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 3: joining us in about a half an hour from now.

588
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,919
Speaker 3: You're listening to The Money Show with Me. Africa Milan

589
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 3: is standing in for Stephen Curtis. It is an Monday

590
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 3: evening and it's just gone seven o'clock The Money Show.

591
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: On seven oh two.

592
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: Let's walk to Talk on ninety two point seven or

593
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 2: one oh six E them and DStv channel eight five six.

594
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 3: Seven minutes. Night is past seven o'clock this Monday evening.

595
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Me African Milan is standing in

596
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: for Stephen Crotis is brought to you by Absurd Corporate

597
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 3: Investment Banking, proud sponsors of GTR Africa twenty twenty six

598
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 3: enabling Trade Flows for Growth APPSA is a registered FSP.

599
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 3: Coming up on the show this hour. In a moment,

600
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: we'll be speaking to the Chief Executive of the National

601
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: Financial ONBARD Scheme, whose office has been really overwhelmed by

602
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 3: the amount of AI generated complaints, sometimes running up to

603
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty pages per complaint, often citing fabricated

604
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 3: legal cases that is hindering the work of the investigators.

605
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 3: We'll speak to the CEO, Rhianna Stain in a moment,

606
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 3: and then Bronwin Williams, the trend translator and future finance

607
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: specialist at Flux Trends, has been reviewing Manu Joseph's Why

608
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 3: the Poor Don't Kill Us. We'll be finding out what

609
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 3: she thought of that book in about ten minutes time.

610
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 3: And then we'll speak of course to the founder of

611
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 3: Lockshin Auctions that did all set die about how auctions

612
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 3: are finding a new market in South Africa's townships. Throughout

613
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 3: the hour your voice notes and text messages most welcome

614
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 3: to seven two seven two one seven o two oh

615
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 3: seven two five six seven one five six seven, particularly

616
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 3: in how your budget is going to be affected by

617
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 3: the eight point eight percent nearly teriff hike that Power

618
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 3: Utility s Com will be putting in place on the

619
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: first of April. Couple that with possibly over four rand

620
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 3: pileta of petrol that's going to be the hike in

621
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 3: the price politita and possibly over seven rand polita of

622
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: diesel in part because of the few levees that will

623
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 3: come into effect on the first of April. But more

624
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 3: significantly because of the contract in the Middle East. How

625
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 3: is your wallet going to be affected? Do you think?

626
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: Do you send us your WhatsApp messages and voice notes

627
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 3: to the numbers that have been provided the.

628
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: Money show on seven notes Monday till Friday.

629
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: Six to eight pm.

630
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 3: Rihanna Stane is the chief executive of the National Financial

631
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 3: Onward Scheme, joining us via Zoom. Rihanna, I imagine you

632
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 3: run a very busy office as the cost of living

633
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: is tightening our bouts and really making our wallets look

634
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 3: thinner and thinner. People unfortunately getting themselves into all sorts

635
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 3: of troubles financial and otherwise that they need help out of.

636
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 3: So already a busy offers. I imagine people turning to

637
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 3: AI tools to write their complaints is making life even

638
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 3: more frustrating for you and your team of investigators.

639
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: Good evening, Good evening.

640
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 11: Thank you for having us. The answer to all of

641
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 11: the above was yes, we are very busy for various reasons.

642
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 11: I think there are hundreds of thousands of financial transactions

643
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 11: taking place in this country every day. You know, every

644
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 11: payment is a potential problem everything, every time money moves

645
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 11: out of an account, and you can imagine how many

646
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 11: times that happens a day, every insurance contract, every claim,

647
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 11: and you know how many incidents there are from motor

648
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 11: vehicle accidents to natural disasters, you know, the rains and

649
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 11: the flats that we've had, and all of those things,

650
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 11: you know, can give rise to a complaint and to

651
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 11: an issue between the consumer and the financial services provider.

652
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 11: And we are there to try and assist the consumers

653
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 11: with these thousands of matters.

654
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: So what are you looking for in a complaint?

655
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 3: If African Milana has had a financial transaction that is

656
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 3: leve left me a little bit distressed, and I think

657
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 3: your office can help me with it. What are you

658
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 3: actually looking for in my complaint?

659
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 11: Well, you know, we first of all a name and

660
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 11: an ID because once we have that and the name

661
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 11: of your financial services provider that you're complaining about. Once

662
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 11: we have those basics, and we write to the institution

663
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 11: and we say this customer of yours has an issue,

664
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 11: and then we explain what the issue is. We will

665
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 11: attach the actual complaint as we receive it. And that

666
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 11: is I think where you know the story that you're

667
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 11: picking up on In the back in the day, people

668
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 11: filled in a physical form, you know, in writing. They

669
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 11: printed the form and there was like a little space

670
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 11: with a few lines where they had to explain what happened.

671
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 11: And normally it's quite simple. My insurance company didn't want

672
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 11: to pay the claim that I submitted, or I'm not

673
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 11: happy with the way their vehicle was repaired, or money

674
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 11: was taken out of my account without my authorization. I

675
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 11: don't know what happened, money is stolen from me, it's

676
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 11: normally quite simple. Or there was a problem at the ATM.

677
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 11: And with that information we go to the institution to say,

678
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 11: this is the complaint we received, this is your customer.

679
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 11: I now want a full explanation on your end, what happened, timelines, details, logs,

680
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 11: you know, all sorts of information. And then once we

681
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 11: have that, we give it to one of our investigators

682
00:39:58,120 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 11: to look at the matter.

683
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 3: So what does Africa turning to AI tools to generate

684
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: that complaint that might run up to one hundred and

685
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 3: fifty pages due to the efficiency of your office.

686
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 11: Well that's the problem. So at the moment, we can

687
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 11: definitely see there's been a I almost want to say,

688
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 11: a sudden uptake in the usage of AI. I think

689
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 11: the beginning of last Yeah, people we're still hearing out it.

690
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 11: It wasn't really in being used, but people are getting

691
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 11: more comfortable using JGBT and whichever other platform all the time,

692
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 11: and now is seeing that the complaint is not just

693
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 11: a simple paragraph for two, it's actually a very long

694
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 11: winded document with pages and pages citing the various acts, legislation,

695
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 11: citing case law. And we have to now sift through

696
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 11: that because you can't just you can't just delete it

697
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 11: or shred it. You have to work through it. And that,

698
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 11: of course, like you're saying, that adds to the case

699
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 11: the workload tremendously, and we stuck between a rock and

700
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 11: a hard place because we can't just ignore all of

701
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 11: it because there might be like a real nugget of

702
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 11: gold in there. And we don't want to say to

703
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 11: consumers don't get help, because maybe some of them really

704
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 11: need that help. And AI is not stupid, and they've

705
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 11: got access to all the information. But instead of now

706
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 11: quickly reading through the matter and saying, okay, this is

707
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 11: the problem, let me ask for a response, we now

708
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 11: have to put it aside until you can get to

709
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 11: one hundred and fifty pages, even two hundred pages of

710
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 11: these responses and you know I'm now talking about in

711
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 11: the beginning of the complaint, and you mentioned that, but

712
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 11: it also happens in the middle of the complaint when

713
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 11: we receive the response from the financial institution giving us

714
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 11: a whole outline of what they think happened. And then

715
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 11: to that response, we also get these very lengthy AI

716
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 11: generated responses. And we've checked, you know, with a program

717
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,959
Speaker 11: that it you know, one matter, it was ninety seven

718
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 11: percent AI generated. It's not written by a Uman, and

719
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 11: I'm not saying it's all wrong, but it's certainly not

720
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 11: all right, but we have to go and check some

721
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 11: of the references are wrong to case law, the legislation

722
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 11: that the quote is incorrect, and you have to now

723
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 11: sip through that.

724
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 3: Let me ask this indelicate question, Rhanne fam Maine. How

725
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 3: many of those cases where complainants have helped, have sought

726
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 3: the help of AI tools have actually improved their prospects

727
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: of a successful outcome.

728
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,439
Speaker 11: None as far as I'm aware. But then I don't

729
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 11: see every case that happens in our office. We do

730
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 11: close a couple of thousand cases every month, so I

731
00:42:59,160 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 11: certainly have.

732
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 9: Not read all of it.

733
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 11: I've seen some of them, and the ones I've seen,

734
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 11: I don't think it really improved their case. It certainly

735
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 11: will lengthen the time that we have available because you know,

736
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,720
Speaker 11: human beings are on the other side of that matter,

737
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 11: and they've got a caseload, so they need to work

738
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 11: through that. So it's definitely going to delay the matter,

739
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 11: which we don't want. But I don't think it will

740
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 11: necessarily change the outcome because you still need to get

741
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 11: to the cracks of the matter.

742
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 3: So if it hasn't helped, and we appreciate that you

743
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 3: haven't read every complaint, the advice are with, then glean

744
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 3: from our conversation here today, Rihanna, is that go back

745
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 3: to providing a paragraph and nothing more than that basics

746
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 3: of what actually happened and what the actual essence nub

747
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 3: of that complaint is.

748
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 11: Well, that I think is good advice. I think if

749
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 11: we don't want to be that extreme, if you do

750
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 11: want to make use of AI, then you know, please

751
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 11: be so kind as to go and check the references

752
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 11: and not just you know, send us everything that's there,

753
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 11: because you know, some of those things are just plained

754
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 11: wrong and the case doesn't exist. The reference to legislation

755
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 11: is incorrect. So if you want to get the help

756
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 11: of AI, at least make sure that it's first of all,

757
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 11: it's not one hundred and fifty pages, because I think

758
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 11: you can set it, you know, to do it as

759
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 11: lengthy as possible, or you can even ask them to

760
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 11: summarize it and only pull out the necessary facts. We

761
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 11: have seen that one of the complaints, we ask the

762
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 11: complainant to summarize the matter, which they then did, and

763
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 11: AI summarized it for them. But you know, it was

764
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 11: shorter and we could work with it, and they were

765
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 11: quite happy to do it. Then, So at least if

766
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 11: you want to use AI to double check, if they

767
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 11: can maybe give you some insight.

768
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 9: Some information that will check us.

769
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 11: We're not saying you're not allowed to use it, but

770
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 11: boboarding us with irrelevant pages and pages is not going

771
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 11: to help your case.

772
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 3: Let's finish off with this question from Joe on the

773
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 3: whatsupp line. Why don't you use AI to process the complaints?

774
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 3: Would that not improve your efficiency?

775
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 11: Why don't I?

776
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 9: Is that the question?

777
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: Yes?

778
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 3: So why doesn't the onbards offers, you know, instead of

779
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 3: relying I suppose on investigators going out there and doing

780
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 3: the investigation is their world where you can actually adopt

781
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 3: an AI tool that might help bring some efficiencies to

782
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,399
Speaker 3: processing that untold number of complaints that you go through

783
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 3: on a monthly basis.

784
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 11: That is quite I think a loaded question. So we

785
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 11: are in the process of engaging service providers to help

786
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 11: us write our own AI program that will help us

787
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 11: with sorting information and getting precedents and summarizing matters. But

788
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 11: at no point are we anywhere year and I don't

789
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 11: know if we'll ever be at a stage where you're

790
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 11: going to ask AI to make decisions. So it's all

791
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 11: very well and good if you say, well, check in

792
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 11: the office, if there's another matter that's similar, check in

793
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 11: the past what we did in these matters. Give me

794
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 11: the research, give me the information. But once all of

795
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 11: that is put together, at this point, we still trust

796
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 11: the humans, the qualified lawyers to actually go and make

797
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 11: a judgment call. And I think, just to take it

798
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 11: one step further, we also have a fairness jurisdiction, so

799
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 11: we need to look at what is fair in all matters.

800
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 11: I'm not sure that I'm comfortable to ask AI to

801
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 11: decide what is fair, as opposed to maybe doing research

802
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 11: and summaries, so we on that we definitely on that path.

803
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 3: Rihanna, I also would not be comfortable with AI determining

804
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 3: the failures of an outcome, I must confidenced. Thank you

805
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 3: very much for your time this evening. Rihanna Stain is

806
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 3: the chief executive of the National Financial on Board Scheme

807
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 3: talking to us about how AI tools are being used

808
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 3: by complainers to generate often extremely long submissions which bar

809
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 3: all accounts, do not necessarily add the best value to

810
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 3: your complaint by you know, use AI weight is necessary,

811
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: but do not offer the investigators hundreds of pages of

812
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 3: useless information that will just slow down the process of

813
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 3: investigating your case.

814
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: Show Business Books.

815
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,919
Speaker 3: The book we are reviewing this week, Why the Poor

816
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 3: Don't Kill Us. It was published last year written by

817
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 3: Manu Joseph. It exploites why despite extreme inequality and exploitation

818
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 3: in India, the poor do not rise in violent revolt

819
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 3: against the rich. And the person tasks with the responsibility

820
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 3: of reading that book and here to tell us all

821
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 3: about it is trend translator and future finance specialist. That's

822
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 3: Brown Williams at Flux Trends. Of course, a very good

823
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 3: evening and welcome to the show.

824
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 12: Good evening, Thank you so much for inviting me back.

825
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 3: All right, you give us your synopsis of the book

826
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 3: before we ask what you made.

827
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: Of the book.

828
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 12: Yes, of course, I mean, how can you not read

829
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 12: this book? Right? Why don't they before I kill the rich?

830
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 12: And of course living in the especially world both an

831
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 12: equal country here in South Africa, although again we always

832
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 12: have to interrogate these statistics. That's the most unequal country

833
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 12: out of countries who report statistics. But nonetheless we are

834
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 12: far from the world's most equal society, so we need

835
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 12: to pay attention to this. And although there are similarities

836
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 12: between India and Africa, I think like violence, especially into

837
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 12: class violence, we have more of that here. India is

838
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 12: more peaceful in lots of ways. I mean, also got

839
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 12: a lot of trouble too. But it was really interesting

840
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 12: to read this assessment. Of course, it's a very subject

841
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 12: to take. This is not an objective analysis done with

842
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 12: data and statistics. It's an interpretation of data and statistics

843
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 12: based on someone's personal observations of living in both India's

844
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 12: poorer and wealthier classes, and also spending some time out

845
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 12: of the country as well as in it, looking at

846
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 12: why in particular, there's not been a class revolt in

847
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 12: that country. And of course, again you can't help as

848
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 12: you're reading but to remember about how long South Africa

849
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 12: suffered under a party and how we didn't actually end

850
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 12: that with a bloody revolution either. Instead there was a

851
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 12: more negotiated transition, which again I think points to some

852
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 12: of the conclusions that come out of the book, which

853
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,439
Speaker 12: are really some of the most quotable quotes you will

854
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 12: find out of a book, saying things like change happens

855
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 12: or good happens when the second rank of society rises

856
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 12: up against the first row, in other words, when the

857
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 12: middle classes can no longer tolerate the ruling classes for

858
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 12: whatever reason. And that, in fact, as many sociologists and

859
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 12: economist to pointed out, the post or poor among us

860
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 12: are quite frankly too busy being poor and surviving to

861
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 12: really challenge the systems they come from. And of course

862
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 12: there's many reasons for that, and indeed, many unequal societies

863
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 12: that are based on classes and costs like they haven't India,

864
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 12: and again very similar to what we had in South

865
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 12: Africa doing a party, were based on Seal's rule by

866
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 12: the politics of small differences, you know, by giving people

867
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 12: different racial hierarchies. Even the oppressed find some source of

868
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,720
Speaker 12: value in continuing the oppression as long as there's someone

869
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 12: lesser than a name down the chain. And how dangerous

870
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 12: that is that it becomes a self reinforcing system. And again,

871
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 12: reading that is reminded, of course about how even now

872
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 12: in the year twenty twenty six, we still have our pressed,

873
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 12: a pressing that even lesser amongas when we start to

874
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 12: look at things like they're a phobia, and our treatments

875
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 12: of poor migrants, for example, in this country and other

876
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 12: parts of the world. So anyway, the premise is fascinating.

877
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 12: The writer is very witty and amusing. He highly opinionates

878
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 12: that which always makes for a much more fun book

879
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 12: to read than a book that is based solely on fact.

880
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,959
Speaker 12: And I think it's a really challenging read for South

881
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 12: Africans and indeed anyone who has any sort of relative privilege,

882
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 12: which is when we think about it, most of us.

883
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,399
Speaker 12: When we interrogate our racial privilege, our gender privilege, our

884
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 12: class privilege, our national past, war privilege, and all these

885
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 12: sorts of things, it's the hard a challenging reader and

886
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 12: certainly gets you to question the water that you swim in,

887
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 12: in other words, of society that you're borne into. For

888
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 12: why we tolerate and even perpetuate things that are really

889
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 12: intolerable when you confront.

890
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 3: On one of the elements you highlighted there, bron in

891
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 3: that notion that the poor are busy being poor for

892
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 3: lack of a better word, struggling to survive, worry more

893
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 3: about what I'm going to eat today, where am I

894
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 3: going to get heating? And an ability to take my

895
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 3: child to school tomorrow that they do not even worry

896
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 3: or think about. Wait a minute, there is an option

897
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,240
Speaker 3: of a revolution here that we can undertake.

898
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 12: Yeah, politics is almost a luxury when you have a

899
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 12: certain amount of privilege. When you are just trying to

900
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 12: defend your life and get by day to day, the

901
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 12: risk of revolutions becomes greater than the risk of continuing

902
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 12: in your current struggle, which is a horrible reality to

903
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 12: the privileged system like as and beneficiaries exploit. This is

904
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 12: one of the things that you can see across history,

905
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 12: across many different societies. I mean they need to accross

906
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 12: the parallels. I mean many people have setting up the

907
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 12: first versons do this. Even if you look at things

908
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 12: like the infamous French Revolution. It's got them the revolution

909
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 12: of the people who were actually starving in the streets.

910
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 12: It was the revolution of the upper middle classes, the

911
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 12: bourgeoisie as we know them, against the elites who they

912
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 12: couldn't tolerate anymore. And that's another one of these really

913
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 12: interesting points. That's one of the reasons that he comes

914
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 12: to as to why the poor are not killing. You

915
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 12: need to acknowledge, as many of us are contemplating right now. Again,

916
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 12: you can you can look on social media and see

917
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 12: the sources of people who say things like eat the rich.

918
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 12: They're got the born people in the world, right, they

919
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 12: generally the educated, uh, sort of falling higher upper and

920
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 12: middle classes. Right. It's just so fascinating. But there's also

921
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 12: this idea that that's even as inequality, the fact that

922
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 12: it is the grievances of the privilege, but not the

923
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 12: most privileged classes, that actually drag society forward and often

924
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 12: end up giving the poorer classes what it is that

925
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 12: they actually need.

926
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 6: I mean.

927
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 12: Next, some really interesting cases about how right for the

928
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 12: working and poorer classes were quite often one by warring

929
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 12: factions of the more rich classes in order to sort

930
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 12: of fight their own to sort of get one back

931
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 12: at each other. They ended up throwing a bone to

932
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 12: those who need it most, and he says that that's

933
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 12: inadvertently one of the reasons why society in India has

934
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 12: gone along and very ready talks about the clashes between

935
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 12: ready the political and economic elite against South Africans should

936
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 12: pay attention. Their political and economic elite are a few

937
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 12: years ahead of our own. The political and economic elite

938
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 12: are effectively warring faction against the accademic elite, and the

939
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:07,439
Speaker 12: academic elite often turned to virtue, that is, criticizing the

940
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 12: politically and economically connects with elite in order to get

941
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 12: them to give more endowments to the post. Which is

942
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 12: really interesting that interclass factions can actually end up giving

943
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 12: just enough bread and occasionally roses to the masses to

944
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 12: again prevent them from re bolting, which has both good

945
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 12: and negative connotations. So, you know, separating the moral judgments

946
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 12: and my aim from the means that we see now manage.

947
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 3: Joseph is a former columnist for The New York Times.

948
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 3: He's also a novelist and a screenwriter. This, my understanding,

949
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 3: is his first non fiction, driven very much by opinion.

950
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 3: More so than data, is this a book you would recommend?

951
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 12: Bronwan, Yes, it's a jolly good reader. It's got some

952
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 12: really quotable lines, including the one I'm going to miss

953
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 12: quote now terribly, but he's saying, for one of the

954
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 12: reasons that we discount for differences in politics is how

955
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 12: much is people taking on the opposite opinion of the

956
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 12: stuff that they hate. So when your wife's annoy you

957
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 12: and she says something, you have the opposite which, which

958
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 12: was meant, is a kind of cynical aside. But I

959
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 12: think it's so interesting when you apply that to the

960
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 12: current increases in the gender divide and political takes are

961
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 12: you're saying, it's not coming from society outwards, coming from

962
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 12: in the home out which is which is just wonderful.

963
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 12: So we've got all these these wonderful, sort of really

964
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 12: cynical takes on life that make it an enjoyable read

965
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 12: but also provocative. So although it's not data led laden,

966
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 12: it certainly has enough anecdote and enough real observation that

967
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 12: you'll recognize parts of yourself in it as you turn

968
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 12: the pages. And I certainly enjoyed reading it, which is

969
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 12: not always the case for books that I find that I,

970
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 12: you know, take away academic insight from this one was

971
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,240
Speaker 12: just good fun to read and you will definitely find

972
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 12: quotes to screenshot and share with your friends if you

973
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 12: do read it.

974
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for sharing your review.

975
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,839
Speaker 3: The book in question, Why the Poor Don't Kill Us,

976
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 3: penned by Manui.

977
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 11: AI generated Responses, and we've checked, you know, with a

978
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 11: program that it is, you know, one matter, it was

979
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 11: ninety seven percent AI generated. It's not written by uman,

980
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 11: and I'm not saying it's all wrong, but it's certainly

981
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:22,959
Speaker 11: not all right. But we have to go and check

982
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 11: some of the references are wrong to case law, the

983
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 11: legislation that the quote is incorrect, and you have to

984
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 11: now sip through that.

985
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 3: Let me ask this indelicate question, Rhanne Famine. How many

986
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 3: of those cases where complainants have helped have sought the

987
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 3: help of AI tools, have actually improved their prospects of

988
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 3: a successful outcome.

989
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 11: None, as far as I'm aware. But then I don't

990
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 11: see every case that happens in our office. We do

991
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 11: close a couple of thousand cases every month, so I

992
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 11: certainly have not read all of it. I've seen some

993
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 11: of them, and the ones I've seen, I don't think

994
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 11: it really improved their case. It certainly will lengthen the

995
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 11: time that we have available because you know, human beings

996
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 11: are on the other side of that matter, and they've

997
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 11: got a caseload, so they need to work through that.

998
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 11: So it's definitely going to delay the matter, which we

999
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 11: don't want. But I don't think it will necessarily change

1000
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 11: the outcome because you still need to get to the

1001
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 11: cracks of the matter.

1002
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 3: So if it hasn't helped, and we appreciate that you

1003
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 3: haven't read every complaint, the advice are with them, glean

1004
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 3: from our conversation here today, Rihanna, is that go back

1005
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 3: to providing a paragraph and nothing more than that basics

1006
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,439
Speaker 3: of what actually happened and what the actual essence nub

1007
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 3: of that complaint is.

1008
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 11: Well, that I think is good advice. I think if

1009
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 11: we don't want to be that extreme, if you do

1010
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 11: want to make use of AI, then you know, please

1011
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 11: be so kind as to go and check the references

1012
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,959
Speaker 11: and not just you know, send us everything that's there,

1013
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 11: because you know, some of those things are just plained

1014
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 11: wrong and the case doesn't exist. The reference to legislation

1015
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 11: is incorrect. So if you want to get the help

1016
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 11: of AI, at least make sure that it's first of all,

1017
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 11: it's not one hundred and fifty pages, because I think

1018
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 11: you can set it, you know, to do it as

1019
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 11: lengthy as possible, or you can even ask them to

1020
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 11: summarize it and only pull out the necessary facts. We

1021
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 11: have seen that one of the complaints, we ask the

1022
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 11: complainant to summarize the matter, which they then did and

1023
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 11: AI summarized it for them. But you know, it was

1024
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 11: shorter and we could work with it, and they were

1025
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 11: quite happy to do it. Then, So at least if

1026
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 11: you want to use AI to double check, if they

1027
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 11: can maybe give you some insight, some in information and

1028
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 11: that will check us. We're not saying you're not allowed

1029
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 11: to use it, but boboarding us with irrelevant pages and

1030
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 11: pages is not going to help your case.

1031
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 3: Let's finish off with this question from Joe on the

1032
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 3: whatsupp line. Why don't you use AI to process the complaints?

1033
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 3: Would that not improve your efficiency?

1034
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 11: Why don't I?

1035
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 9: Is that the question?

1036
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 4: Yes?

1037
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 3: So why doesn't the onboards offers, you know, instead of

1038
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 3: relying I suppose on investigators going out there and doing

1039
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 3: the investigation. Is their world where you can actually adopt

1040
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 3: an AI tool that might help bring some efficiencies to

1041
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 3: processing that untold number of complaints that you go through

1042
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 3: on a monthly basis.

1043
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 11: That is quite I think a loaded question. So we

1044
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 11: are in the process of engaging service providers to help

1045
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 11: us write our own AI program that will help us

1046
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 11: with sorting information and getting precedents and summarizing matters. But

1047
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:16,439
Speaker 11: at no point are we anywhere year and I don't

1048
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 11: know if we'll ever be at a stage where you're

1049
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 11: going to ask AI to make decisions. So it's all

1050
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 11: very well and good if you say, well, check the

1051
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 11: in the office, if there's another matter that's similar, check

1052
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 11: in the past what we did in these matters, Give

1053
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 11: me the research, give me the information. But once all

1054
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 11: of that is put together, at this point, we still

1055
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 11: trust the humans, the qualified lawyers to actually go and

1056
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 11: make a judgment call. And I think, just to take

1057
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 11: it one step further, we also have a fairness jurisdiction,

1058
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 11: so we need to look at what is fair in

1059
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 11: all matters. I'm not sure that I'm comfortable to ask

1060
01:01:56,080 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 11: AI to decide what is fair as opposed to maybe

1061
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 11: doing research and salaries. So we on that we definitely

1062
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 11: on that.

1063
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 3: Path, Rihanna, I also would not be comfortable with AI

1064
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 3: determining the failures of an outcome I must confidenced. Thank

1065
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 3: you very much for your time this evening. Rihanna Stain

1066
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 3: is the chief executive of the National Financial on Board

1067
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 3: Scheme talking to us about how AI tools are being

1068
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 3: used by complainers to generate often extremely long submissions which

1069
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 3: by all accounts, do not necessarily add the best value

1070
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 3: to your complaint. By you know, use AI weight is necessary,

1071
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 3: but do not offer the investigators hundreds of pages of

1072
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 3: useless information that will just slow down the process of

1073
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 3: investigating your case.

1074
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: Show Business Books.

1075
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 3: The book we are reviewing this week, Why the Poor

1076
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 3: Don't Kill Us. It was published last year. Written by

1077
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 3: Manu It explores why despite extreme inequality and exploitation in India,

1078
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 3: the poor do not rise in violent revolt against the rich.

1079
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 3: And the person tasks with the responsibility of reading that

1080
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 3: book and here to tell us all about it is

1081
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 3: trend translator and future finance specialist. That's Bronwan Williams at

1082
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:22,959
Speaker 3: Flux Trends. Of course, a very good evening and welcome

1083
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:23,439
Speaker 3: to the show.

1084
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 12: Good evening, Thank you so much for inviting me back.

1085
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 3: All right, you give us your synopsis of the book

1086
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 3: before we ask what you made.

1087
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: Of the book.

1088
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 12: Yes, of course, I mean, how can you not read

1089
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 12: this book? Right? Why don't they before I kill the rich?

1090
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 12: And of course living in the especially well both an

1091
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 12: equal country here in South Africa, although again we always

1092
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 12: have to interrogate these statistics. That's the most unequal country

1093
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 12: out of countries who report statistics. But nonetheless we are

1094
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 12: far from the world's most equal society, so need to

1095
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 12: pay attention to this. And although they are similarity between

1096
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 12: India and South Africa, I think like violence, especially into

1097
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 12: class violence, we have more of that here. India is

1098
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 12: more peaceful in lots of ways. I mean, also got

1099
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 12: a lot of trouble too. But it was really interesting

1100
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 12: to read this assessment. Of course, it's a very subject

1101
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 12: to take. This is not an objective analysis done with

1102
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 12: data and statistics. It's an interpretation of data and statistics

1103
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 12: based on someone's personal observations of living in both India's

1104
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 12: poorer and wealthier classes, and also spending some time out

1105
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,439
Speaker 12: of the country as well as in it, looking at why,

1106
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 12: in particular, there's not been a class revolt in that country,

1107
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 12: and of course, again you can't help as you're reading

1108
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 12: but to remember about how long South Africa suffered under

1109
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 12: a party and how we didn't actually end that with

1110
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 12: a bloody revolution either. Instead there was a more negotiated transition,

1111
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 12: which again I think points to some of the conclusions

1112
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 12: that come out of the book, which are really some

1113
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 12: of the most quotable quotes you will find out of

1114
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 12: a book, saying things like change happens or good happens

1115
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 12: when the second rank of society rises up against the

1116
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 12: first row, in other words, when the middle classes can

1117
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 12: no longer tolerate the ruling classes for whatever reason. And that,

1118
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 12: in fact, as many sociologists and economis to pointed out,

1119
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 12: the post or poor among us are quite frankly too

1120
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 12: busy being poor and surviving to really challenge the systems

1121
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 12: they come from. And of course there's many reasons for that,

1122
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 12: and indeed, many unequal societies that are based on classes

1123
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 12: and costs, like they have in India and again very

1124
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 12: similar to what we had in South Africa doing a party,

1125
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 12: were based on Seal's rule by the politics of small differences,

1126
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 12: you know, by giving people different racial hierarchies. Even the

1127
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 12: oppressed find some source of you in continuing the oppression,

1128
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 12: as long as there's someone lesser than a name down

1129
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 12: the chain, and how dangerous that is that it becomes

1130
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 12: a self reinforcing system. And again reading that is reminded,

1131
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 12: of course about how even now in the year twenty

1132
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 12: twenty six, we still have our pressed appressing that even

1133
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 12: lesser amongas when we start to look at things like

1134
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 12: they're aphobia and our treatments of poor migrants, for example,

1135
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 12: in this country and other parts of the world. So anyway,

1136
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 12: the premise is fascinating. The writer is very witty and amusing.

1137
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 12: You highly opinionates that, which always makes for a much

1138
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 12: more fun book to read than a book that is

1139
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 12: based solely on fact. And I think it's a really

1140
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 12: challenging read for South Africans and indeed anyone who has

1141
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,439
Speaker 12: any sort of relative privilege, which is when you think

1142
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 12: about it, most of us. When we interrogate our racial privilege,

1143
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 12: our gender privilege, our class privilege, our national past, war privilege,

1144
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 12: and all these sorts of things. It's the high the

1145
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 12: challenging read and certainly gets you to question the water

1146
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,080
Speaker 12: that you swim in. In other words, of society that

1147
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 12: you're borne into. Why we tolerate and even perpetuate things

1148
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 12: that are really intolerable when you.

1149
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 13: Confront one of the elements you highlighted there, Brann in

1150
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 13: that notion that the poor are busy being poor for

1151
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 13: lack of a better word, struggling to survive, worry more

1152
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 13: about what I'm going to eat today, where am I

1153
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 13: going to get heating, and an ability to take my

1154
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 13: child to school tomorrow that they do not even worry

1155
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 13: or think about.

1156
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, there is an option of a revolution

1157
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 3: here that we can undertake.

1158
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 12: Yeah, politics is almost a luxury when you have a

1159
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 12: certain amount of privilege. When you are just trying to

1160
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 12: defend your life and get by day to day, the

1161
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 12: risk of revolutions becomes greater than the risk of continuing

1162
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 12: in your current struggle, which is a horrible reality to

1163
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 12: the privileged system like designers and beneficiaries exploit. This is

1164
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 12: one of the things that you can see across history,

1165
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 12: across many different societies. I mean they need to accross

1166
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 12: the parallels. I mean many people have staying not the

1167
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 12: first versons do this. Even if you look at things

1168
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:18,719
Speaker 12: like the infamous French revolution. It's got them the revolution

1169
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 12: of the people who were actually starving in the streets.

1170
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 12: It was the revolution of the upper middle classes, the

1171
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 12: bourgeoisie as we know that agates the elites who they

1172
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 12: couldn't tolerate anymore. And that's another one of these really

1173
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 12: interesting points. That's one of the reasons that he comes

1174
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 12: to as to why the poor are not killing. You

1175
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 12: need to acknowledge, as many of us are contemplating right now. Again,

1176
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 12: you can you can look on social media and see

1177
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 12: the sources of people who say things.

1178
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:46,599
Speaker 1: Like eat the rich.

1179
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 12: They got the born people in the world, right, they

1180
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 12: basically generally the educated, uh, sort of falling higher upper

1181
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:55,480
Speaker 12: and middle classes.

1182
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 6: Right.

1183
01:08:56,160 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 12: It's just so fascinating. But there's also this idea that

1184
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 12: that's even that's inequality, the fact that it is the

1185
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 12: grievances of the privilege, but not the most privileged classes,

1186
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 12: that actually drag society forward and often end up giving

1187
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 12: the poorer classes what it is that they actually need.

1188
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 12: I mean, next, some really interesting cases about how right

1189
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 12: for the working and poorer classes were quite often one

1190
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 12: by warring factions of the more rich classes in order

1191
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 12: to sort of fight their own to sort of get

1192
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 12: one back at each other. They ended up throwing a

1193
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 12: bone to those who need it most, and he says

1194
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 12: that that's inadvertently one of the reasons why society in

1195
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 12: India has gone along and very ready talks about the

1196
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 12: classes between Ready, the political and economic elite against South

1197
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:52,719
Speaker 12: Africans should pay attention there. Their political and economic elifs

1198
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 12: are a few years ahead of our own. The political

1199
01:09:56,360 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 12: and economic elite are effectively warring faction against the academic elite,

1200
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 12: and the academic elite often turned to virtue, that is,

1201
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 12: criticizing the politically and economically connects with the elite in

1202
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:14,759
Speaker 12: order to get them to give more endowments to the post.

1203
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 12: Which is really interesting that interclass factions can actually end

1204
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 12: up giving just enough bread and occasionally roses to the

1205
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 12: masses to again prevent them from revolting, which has both

1206
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 12: good and negative connotations. So, you know, separating the moral

1207
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:33,639
Speaker 12: judgments and my aim from the means that.

1208
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 1: We see now.

1209
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 3: Manager Joseph is a former columnist for The New York Times.

1210
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 3: He's also a novelist and a screenwriter. This, my understanding,

1211
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 3: is his first non fiction, driven very much by opinion

1212
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,679
Speaker 3: more so than data. Is this a book you would

1213
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:50,639
Speaker 3: recommend Bronwan.

1214
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 12: Yes, it's a jolly good reader. It's got some really

1215
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 12: quotable lines, including the one I'm going to miss quote

1216
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 12: now terribly, but he's saying, for one of the reasons

1217
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 12: that we discount for differences in politics is how much

1218
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 12: is people taking on the opposite opinion of the stuff

1219
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 12: that they hate. So when your wife's annoy un she

1220
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 12: says something you have the opposite, which was mant is

1221
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 12: a kind of cynical aside. But I think it's so

1222
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 12: interesting when you apply that to the current increases in

1223
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 12: the gender divide and political takes and you're saying it's

1224
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 12: not coming from society outwards, coming from in the home

1225
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 12: out which is just wonderful. So we've got all these

1226
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 12: these wonderful, sort of really cynical takes on life that

1227
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 12: make it an enjoyable read but also provocative. So although

1228
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 12: it's not data led laden, it certainly has enough anecdote

1229
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 12: and enough real observation that you'll recognize parts of yourself

1230
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 12: in it as you turn the pages. And I certainly

1231
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 12: enjoyed reading it, which is not always the case for

1232
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 12: books that I find that I, you know, take away

1233
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 12: academic insight from this one is just good fun to

1234
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 12: read and you will definitely find quotes to screenshot and

1235
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:58,639
Speaker 12: share with your friends if you.

1236
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 3: Do read it. Thank you very much for sharing your review.

1237
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 3: The book in question, Why the Poor Don't Kill Us,

1238
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 3: penned by Manu Joseph Bronnan Williams, is a trend translator

1239
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 3: and a future finance specialist at Flax Trends, taking the

1240
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 3: trouble to read the book and to tell us that

1241
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 3: you should pick it up and read and of course

1242
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 3: apply it in your context and see what different opinions

1243
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 3: and thoughts you might come to from those offered by

1244
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 3: Manu Joseph. The title of the book, Why the Poor

1245
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:32,120
Speaker 3: Don't Kill Us?

1246
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 5: Our money show how I make my money.

1247
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 1: Nobody got to get you, but you give money.

1248
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 9: Father told me.

1249
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:46,599
Speaker 13: You want to get.

1250
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 9: Taken.

1251
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 3: I'd love for somebody to actually measure the speed at

1252
01:12:56,360 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 3: which those men and women at Auctions speak in order

1253
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 3: to try and get us.

1254
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:02,879
Speaker 1: To bid for an object.

1255
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:03,679
Speaker 9: Well.

1256
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 3: Auctions are now moving into the township areas and space

1257
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,679
Speaker 3: as their unlock new markets and joining me via zoom

1258
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,960
Speaker 3: is that Tito set dying at. Tito is a founder

1259
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,719
Speaker 3: of loction auctions. Tito, A very good evening and welcome

1260
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 3: to the show.

1261
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:20,799
Speaker 9: Evening up, Dear Frica.

1262
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 14: Thank you very much for having us, and good evening

1263
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 14: to your listeners.

1264
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 3: Let me ask the obvious question to start off with,

1265
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 3: why has the traditional auction industry largely ignored townships for

1266
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 3: so long?

1267
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 14: I'd like to add another bad word to that, and

1268
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 14: I'd like to call it avoiding. It's it's you know,

1269
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:46,759
Speaker 14: if you think long and hard about it, South Africa

1270
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 14: has been through a very long history of inactivity economically,

1271
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,440
Speaker 14: that is within the township spaces.

1272
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:56,599
Speaker 9: And add to so.

1273
01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:01,000
Speaker 14: Many layers is that auctions were really you know, a

1274
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:04,600
Speaker 14: bad table delivered in bad taste through the works of

1275
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 14: the sheriff in the old days, where people you know,

1276
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:12,120
Speaker 14: were chucked out of their houses, and you know it

1277
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:14,679
Speaker 14: has been it has been looked at in a bad way.

1278
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:16,719
Speaker 9: But fast forward to today.

1279
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 14: I mean, online scams are rampage and you know, many

1280
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 14: people within the township space now look at auctions as

1281
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,640
Speaker 14: something which you know, they are not really willing to

1282
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 14: participate in from a bias perspective. But I mean for

1283
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:37,880
Speaker 14: auction houses, you know, to really get in to the

1284
01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 14: township spaces. I think it's just a matter of simple avoidance.

1285
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 14: They're not only ignoring it, but I mean they know

1286
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 14: that the market is there. The majority of the market,

1287
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 14: which holds vehicles that are bought on higher purchase reside

1288
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 14: in townships, I would imagine, because that's where the majority

1289
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 14: of the the population stays. So I mean there are

1290
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:07,640
Speaker 14: also zero visibility to auctions in townships. So you know,

1291
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:13,560
Speaker 14: there really lacks a lot of participation from a township perspective,

1292
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:18,720
Speaker 14: and so thereby, you know, it takes longer to implement

1293
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 14: something which is unknown to a market, which is really

1294
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 14: to spend quite an odd predicament.

1295
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 1: It is.

1296
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 3: Indeed, whenever I think of auctions, I think of collectors' items,

1297
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 3: often pieces of furniture, a cabinet, for example, that has

1298
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 3: moved and shipped across continents and was created by a

1299
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 3: particular designer who has become quite desirable, and therefore you

1300
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 3: want to bid for an auction for that piece of

1301
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 3: cabinet of an art is very popular at auctions. What

1302
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 3: are you anticipating will be those must have items that

1303
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 3: everybody will be auctioning for bidding for rather in an

1304
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 3: auction election, well, you.

1305
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 14: Know, it's always quite interesting to look at the formal

1306
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 14: auction market and you know, when we start from the grassroots.

1307
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 14: I mean, this is a concept which has never existed

1308
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 14: in any of the father and thirty two townships in

1309
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 14: South Africa. And to just necessarily tongue in Chekia to

1310
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,880
Speaker 14: go and paste the banana on a wall and sell it.

1311
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 9: For sixty billion.

1312
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 14: While that is our dream, we have to be realistic

1313
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:41,160
Speaker 14: about it with regards to the market that we currently

1314
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:44,759
Speaker 14: have within township markets, there are a lot of people

1315
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 14: that might grade between townships in you know, five and

1316
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:52,640
Speaker 14: thirty two townships, moving closer to work, having been retrained,

1317
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 14: you know, re re rescaling your finances, so you find

1318
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 14: yourself within a township space. And what more that when

1319
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 14: you get there, then you are you are you know

1320
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 14: able to to to purchase items at a low cost.

1321
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 14: So the things that really move within the townships would

1322
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 14: be your white appliances and and not so much as

1323
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,680
Speaker 14: you know, the fancy artworks. But the realistic look of

1324
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 14: township is that we have people that are primarily looking

1325
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 14: for furniture, primarily looking for vehicles equipment that you know

1326
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:34,680
Speaker 14: they could sell. I mean that they could buy in

1327
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:38,360
Speaker 14: order to start a business. At the moment, I know

1328
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:41,880
Speaker 14: of three or four businesses that normally buy from our

1329
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 14: auction to actually resell, and some of them have used

1330
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 14: some of the equipment that we sold so that they could,

1331
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 14: you know, necessarily that they could then use it within

1332
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:53,800
Speaker 14: their businesses.

1333
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,639
Speaker 3: And would that be a case of, for example, there's

1334
01:17:58,680 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 3: an old ap clients that I'm either no longer using

1335
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 3: or is in a state of some disrepair, that I

1336
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:10,480
Speaker 3: can then put on an auction. Somebody else purchases it,

1337
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 3: has the skill and the tools to improve it, and

1338
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:15,920
Speaker 3: therefore you juzz it up a bit and then put

1339
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:17,639
Speaker 3: it place it back on the market again.

1340
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 14: Yes, so so most necessarily you would we would like

1341
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 14: to look at, you know, a bigger client or other,

1342
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:35,360
Speaker 14: a bigger elephant. However, you know your your old items

1343
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 14: are you know, really someone else's gold. You know there's

1344
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:42,799
Speaker 14: an ion that you no longer using, there's actually someone

1345
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 14: who is three houses away who needs that very iron.

1346
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:50,320
Speaker 14: There's a refrigerator that probably has like you know, two

1347
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 14: wires not connecting, and you know a few blocks away,

1348
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 14: there's someone that could actually take that off of your hands,

1349
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 14: so you can.

1350
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 9: Go purchase a new one.

1351
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 14: That is, there is a very noble market and you

1352
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 14: can actually find it in many areas of townships where

1353
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 14: services like your retailers that are selling their stock which.

1354
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:12,240
Speaker 9: Has been returned.

1355
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:15,640
Speaker 14: You get that stock and you sell it to a

1356
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:19,559
Speaker 14: larger market who then they can then resell it to

1357
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:23,679
Speaker 14: our market. But now as locks auctions, we are within

1358
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 14: the township, so that we can actually bridge that gap

1359
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:33,680
Speaker 14: where we could then source in large scale from huge retailers,

1360
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 14: from liquidators that have properties or any estates that are

1361
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 14: within townships, banks that are repossessing vehicles within townships and

1362
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:50,320
Speaker 14: having to pay expensive cost of taking them to a suburbia,

1363
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:53,840
Speaker 14: whereas we could keep that money within the township, will

1364
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:57,560
Speaker 14: keep that asset within the township so that it actually

1365
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 14: you know, circulates our money here within the township.

1366
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:05,680
Speaker 3: Because part of the challenge, I'm thinking of houses that

1367
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:09,519
Speaker 3: are repossessed, for example, that are then placed an auction.

1368
01:20:10,120 --> 01:20:15,599
Speaker 3: Often those auctions happen outside of those townships, and therefore

1369
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,000
Speaker 3: I might not even have an opportunity to buy a

1370
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 3: property Africa.

1371
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:24,479
Speaker 9: I missed you there for a bit, am I audible

1372
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:24,920
Speaker 9: on your.

1373
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:26,439
Speaker 1: End, Yes you are.

1374
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 3: I'm just having my producers and it technical teams just

1375
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 3: making sure that we are able to hear each other properly.

1376
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,879
Speaker 3: But I'm able to hear you properly. I was asking

1377
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:43,559
Speaker 3: about the reality I suppose where if a property house,

1378
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:46,519
Speaker 3: for example, is going up an auction, often that auction

1379
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:49,679
Speaker 3: is taking place off site, as in not anywhere near

1380
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 3: the township, and often excludes the people of that township

1381
01:20:53,360 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 3: from potentially successfully bidding for that property. All right, it

1382
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 3: seems like we have a lost connection there to Titso Satai,

1383
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:08,679
Speaker 3: we're talking about auctions in the township. Is the founder

1384
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:13,280
Speaker 3: of loction auctions. While we try and reconnect with him,

1385
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 3: Let's invite your calls No. Two one four for six

1386
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:18,639
Speaker 3: so five six seven or one one eight A three

1387
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 3: oh seven oh two. If it preferred to send a

1388
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 3: text or a voice note, you most welcome to do

1389
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 3: so to seven two seven oh two one seven oh

1390
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:31,040
Speaker 3: two O seven two five six seven one five six

1391
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 3: seven will continue our conversation with the founder of loction auctions.

1392
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 3: That's Didso Satai. After this.

1393
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 10: The Money Show Stephen Croutes is brought to you by

1394
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 10: APPS Corporate and Investment backing proud sponsors of GTR Africa

1395
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 10: twenty twenty six, enabling trade flows for growth apps as

1396
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 10: a registered a fsp.

1397
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 1: Our money show How I Make My Money Are.

1398
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 3: We're continuing our conversation on auctions finding a new market

1399
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 3: in South Africa's township. So we join on the line

1400
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:08,840
Speaker 3: by the founder of Loction Auctions that so set die

1401
01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 3: so just before the connectivity challenge there, I was highlighting

1402
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 3: a situation where some people who've bought properties using a

1403
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:22,559
Speaker 3: bond through a bank, who find themselves in financial distress,

1404
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:26,400
Speaker 3: are no longer able to honor those payments. Those properties

1405
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:30,679
Speaker 3: are repossessed. Often those properties go on auction to people

1406
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:34,439
Speaker 3: outside of that township where there isn't a facility perhaps

1407
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:38,360
Speaker 3: an awareness that property X is on the market and

1408
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 3: one might actually be able to bid for it.

1409
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:49,519
Speaker 14: It's a very interesting dilemma Africa, I'll tell you, within

1410
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:55,280
Speaker 14: my experience, and you know, having to see properties that

1411
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:58,760
Speaker 14: are sold and banks have repossessed and being sold in

1412
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 14: a boardroom ware in sent in somewhere in Randburg or

1413
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:06,439
Speaker 14: outside of the township area. You know, it leaves the

1414
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 14: buyers within the immediate space, you know, without an opportunity

1415
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 14: to purchase that said property and in order to circumvent that.

1416
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 14: I mean, the only way I believe it is in

1417
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 14: order to have auctions that are present within the township

1418
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:28,480
Speaker 14: areas and not that we rely on areas which are outside.

1419
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:30,680
Speaker 9: You will also not.

1420
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 14: With with the within the property space, particularly in auctions.

1421
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 14: You know, property auctions alone exceed four billion annually and

1422
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 14: if that share of the market was somewhat you know,

1423
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:50,519
Speaker 14: extended to a township ready to buy market as well,

1424
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 14: we would have a different playing field, or rather we

1425
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 14: would have transformed to a better playing field.

1426
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 3: How is the advent of loction auctions, I suppose helping

1427
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:10,320
Speaker 3: enhancing the formal informal economy rather in the townships. We

1428
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:12,719
Speaker 3: don't have a handle on what that figure is because

1429
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 3: of the nature of the economy, but we know that

1430
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 3: it's a massive, massive driver of transactions in our townships.

1431
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 3: Are you adding to that, are you complementing that, or

1432
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 3: are you presenting as a challenge to that.

1433
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:34,479
Speaker 14: Well, at the moment the Africa we are we are

1434
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:36,599
Speaker 14: we are hoping that we are adding.

1435
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 9: We do not have our numbers as yet.

1436
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:43,200
Speaker 14: We are hoping that we are adding in fact, in

1437
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 14: in doing our auctions. For the past two to three years,

1438
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:50,360
Speaker 14: Ortho this is our third year that we are doing

1439
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 14: our auctions. We have fed the assistance of the South

1440
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 14: African Institute of Auctioneers to actually you know, formalize us

1441
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:02,760
Speaker 14: in a way that we are presentable to the liquidation

1442
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:07,040
Speaker 14: spaces or the retail spaces. Now in order for us

1443
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:12,840
Speaker 14: to actually count into the to actually contribute to that market,

1444
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 14: is that we need to attain bigger contracts, which are

1445
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:19,720
Speaker 14: you know, from retail markets and the banks give us

1446
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 14: support so that we could actually as well make an

1447
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 14: impactful contribution.

1448
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:30,280
Speaker 3: Because I imagine you would want a wonderful synergy right

1449
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:34,720
Speaker 3: with the economy of the township in how it's set

1450
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:37,599
Speaker 3: up so that you can add value to each other

1451
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:41,040
Speaker 3: as opposed to take away value from one another, right.

1452
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:43,799
Speaker 9: Correct.

1453
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 14: I mean at the moment, as I stated that, we

1454
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:50,400
Speaker 14: have people that are or other individuals and businesses that

1455
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:54,160
Speaker 14: are currently buying from our auctions in order to resell

1456
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:57,680
Speaker 14: or to you know, use their equipment within their businesses.

1457
01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:02,760
Speaker 14: So as a trading to within the township spaces, I

1458
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 14: think it really adds to the economy of of the townships.

1459
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 14: I mean the asset circulation that goes you know, I

1460
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:16,479
Speaker 14: grew up in a home where my brother once his

1461
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:19,000
Speaker 14: shoes didn't fit in. You know, I would then fit

1462
01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 14: into that shoe or that peero gene, and I would

1463
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 14: imagine that many homes within the township spaces we go

1464
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 14: through that that you know, that hand me down, but

1465
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:32,479
Speaker 14: it's necessarily you know, getting the value for your money.

1466
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:35,320
Speaker 14: So the person who is going to be selling that

1467
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 14: item is also receiving money and also helping out.

1468
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:43,160
Speaker 9: A business and or an individual that is.

1469
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:46,800
Speaker 14: In much need of that item, whereas you know, it

1470
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:50,599
Speaker 14: would be more expensive within the traditional same space.

1471
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:54,479
Speaker 3: I'm not sure when your next auction is going to

1472
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 3: be at the top, but perhaps if we can furnish

1473
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:01,680
Speaker 3: us with some list of the assets that you're going

1474
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:02,880
Speaker 3: to be auctioning.

1475
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:08,840
Speaker 14: Right our next auction will be within the month of April.

1476
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 9: We have identified the week of the.

1477
01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:19,839
Speaker 14: Sorry, the eighteen apologized Saturday, which will be at Anchor's

1478
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:23,759
Speaker 14: Kitchen as per our because it is our flagship store.

1479
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 14: We have some white appliances, which is fridges. We have

1480
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:30,800
Speaker 14: some microwaves that we sell, we have some outdoor furniture

1481
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:35,519
Speaker 14: that we're looking at, a lot of kitchen utensils and yeah,

1482
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:40,360
Speaker 14: we are looking to you know, introduce the auction method

1483
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 14: into the township spaces.

1484
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 3: All right, and who is attracted outside of people who

1485
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 3: are wanting to obviously purchase these objects for potential repurposing

1486
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:57,479
Speaker 3: and resell later. Are you finding that household owners for example,

1487
01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 3: who are in search of a microwave and iron, whatever

1488
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:03,160
Speaker 3: the case may be, are also coming to the auctions.

1489
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:07,679
Speaker 14: Interestingly enough, we find people that are wanting to sell

1490
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:13,040
Speaker 14: their products within within the auction space. So because the

1491
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 14: township market is quite a different animal altogether, where you know,

1492
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:22,519
Speaker 14: the items that you would find us selling in the

1493
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 14: middle of the street.

1494
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 9: I mean, it's a very vibrant economy.

1495
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:30,880
Speaker 14: So in order to get a product which is new

1496
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:33,080
Speaker 14: and it's out there, many people want to tap into

1497
01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:38,120
Speaker 14: the township market. So the auction methodology works very well

1498
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:41,200
Speaker 14: here in that we look, we have people that are

1499
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:44,599
Speaker 14: wanting to sell their old vehicles, people that are wanting

1500
01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 14: to sell their you know, closing down businesses, scaling down

1501
01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:51,479
Speaker 14: businesses that are looking to you know, sell some of

1502
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 14: their items.

1503
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:55,000
Speaker 9: People that are looking for specific items.

1504
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:59,320
Speaker 14: Vary from vehicle all the way to construction equipment all

1505
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:02,080
Speaker 14: the way to us small air fryer. So yes, we

1506
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 14: get a mixed bag of clientele and stakeholders that want

1507
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:09,719
Speaker 14: to play around with us.

1508
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:13,639
Speaker 3: Are you looking to play in the vehicle auction space,

1509
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:17,120
Speaker 3: because that's a massive, massive, sort of sub sector within

1510
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:19,439
Speaker 3: the space of auctions, isn't it.

1511
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:22,800
Speaker 9: That day of Africa? Most certainly?

1512
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:25,920
Speaker 14: I think if anything, there is the target of auction

1513
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:29,479
Speaker 14: auctions and having to see the amount of vehicles that

1514
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:33,240
Speaker 14: drive out of each and every township each and every

1515
01:29:33,280 --> 01:29:37,600
Speaker 14: morning and driving back each and every evening. A percentage

1516
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:41,920
Speaker 14: of those vehicles get repossessed on a quarterly basis, and

1517
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 14: you know, people like us which are small players. Nonetheless,

1518
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:49,280
Speaker 14: black auctioneers do not get the opportunity to dive into

1519
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:54,920
Speaker 14: that market because banks do not appoint black auctioneers in

1520
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 14: order for them to sell their vehicles in their township

1521
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 14: spaces to other market that's available so that they can

1522
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:04,400
Speaker 14: get their returns back.

1523
01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:07,200
Speaker 9: I will make an example with regards to a.

1524
01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 14: Vehicle that is transported from Sowere to and going to

1525
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:15,919
Speaker 14: be sold in Randburg or Midrand somewhere. The storage costs

1526
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:19,439
Speaker 14: which are going to be you know added, goes to

1527
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:22,759
Speaker 14: the buyer or rather the previous owner of the vehicle.

1528
01:30:23,320 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 14: The towing of that vehicle from sowhere to all the

1529
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:30,400
Speaker 14: way to the storage facility, be it sent in Midrand

1530
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:34,720
Speaker 14: or Pretoria, falls onto the previous.

1531
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 9: Owner of the vehicle.

1532
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:40,320
Speaker 14: If we have auction houses which are in township spaces,

1533
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:46,160
Speaker 14: then we are able to save money for the previous owner.

1534
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:49,800
Speaker 14: So that market in itself for vehicles is a very

1535
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:52,840
Speaker 14: interesting market that we would love to get involved in,

1536
01:30:53,160 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 14: and we'd love to have conversations with people that are

1537
01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:00,800
Speaker 14: in the right places for those assets to be attained,

1538
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 14: so that we can actually demonstrate how lobsided that the

1539
01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:10,280
Speaker 14: appointments are to auctioneers which are already established.

1540
01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:14,280
Speaker 3: How important is it that I must be able to

1541
01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:18,920
Speaker 3: prove ownership of that property. Cars obviously are big acid,

1542
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:21,599
Speaker 3: right and they are registered under your name, and therefore

1543
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:23,680
Speaker 3: you can prove it in that way. But if I'm

1544
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 3: coming with a microwave that I no longer have used

1545
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:30,080
Speaker 3: to use four rather that I might have bought five

1546
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 3: years ago, do I need to have kept that tail

1547
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 3: slip that assures you that this is property that actually

1548
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:39,559
Speaker 3: belongs to me and therefore I want it to be

1549
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:40,680
Speaker 3: placed on auction.

1550
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:44,280
Speaker 9: Right now? North Africa.

1551
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:47,920
Speaker 14: This is where it gets really important that you know

1552
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:52,280
Speaker 14: because this industry, as I had said, that it is

1553
01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:54,960
Speaker 14: full of scams, or rather there are scams that are

1554
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:57,360
Speaker 14: within this industry.

1555
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:02,400
Speaker 9: If you have if you are using an auctioneer.

1556
01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:08,160
Speaker 14: Which is SIRE accredited, one of the lessons that they

1557
01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:11,439
Speaker 14: will give you is that you should have a mandate.

1558
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:14,839
Speaker 9: Now, the contractual mandate is what then.

1559
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:20,720
Speaker 14: Gives total ownership or other It is the seller stating

1560
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:25,760
Speaker 14: that I am the lawful owner of this property, and

1561
01:32:26,120 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 14: you know, certain documents are then needed to support that

1562
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:35,880
Speaker 14: mandate so that that transaction when the items, when the

1563
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:38,679
Speaker 14: item is sold, it can then be traced back as

1564
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:40,000
Speaker 14: to where was it found.

1565
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:41,960
Speaker 9: So if you are.

1566
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:44,519
Speaker 14: Able to prove, if you are unable to prove that

1567
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:48,639
Speaker 14: this is your asset in any shape or formak tail

1568
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:51,720
Speaker 14: slip or someone that could vouch for you an effidevit,

1569
01:32:52,360 --> 01:32:56,400
Speaker 14: then a mandate is what would be then tiing you

1570
01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:59,479
Speaker 14: to that asset and saying that you are now owner

1571
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:02,960
Speaker 14: of particular asset.

1572
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:05,240
Speaker 3: The best way to get in touch with you is

1573
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:09,160
Speaker 3: through your website I imagine, which is loctionauctions dot co

1574
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 3: dot z. They it has details of your physical address.

1575
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 3: Weight is the email where people can email you as

1576
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:19,439
Speaker 3: well as a phone number that they can contact you

1577
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,400
Speaker 3: on via WhatsApp right correct.

1578
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:28,599
Speaker 14: We are also on Facebook, Twitter or x, LinkedIn and.

1579
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:36,080
Speaker 1: TikTok on all the platforms.

1580
01:33:36,120 --> 01:33:40,360
Speaker 3: Loction has well l O K, S H I N

1581
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:43,840
Speaker 3: and then auctions dot co dot z. Thank you very

1582
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 3: much to the founder of Loction Auctions. It's all SETI.

1583
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:52,320
Speaker 10: The Money Show, Stephen Croutest is brought to you by

1584
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:56,000
Speaker 10: Apps Corporate and Investment backing proud sponsors of g t

1585
01:33:56,280 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 10: R Africa twenty twenty six, enabling trade flows for growth.

1586
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:05,439
Speaker 10: I'm just a registered a FSP and that's it from us.

1587
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,240
Speaker 10: It's the Monday edition of the Monday Show. I've staay

1588
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:11,679
Speaker 10: in for Stephen Hurtis. He'll be back on this show

1589
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:15,400
Speaker 10: tomorrow evening. We're going to be got back on seven

1590
01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:18,680
Speaker 10: or two Breakfast tomorrow morning. The reason why Steven has

1591
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:22,040
Speaker 10: been a ways because he was doing breakfast duty this morning.

1592
01:34:22,280 --> 01:34:24,840
Speaker 10: I won't be on any breakfast tomorrow. Jacob uShaka will

1593
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:27,040
Speaker 10: be looking after my show. I'll be back on your

1594
01:34:27,080 --> 01:34:31,000
Speaker 10: dial on Wednesday morning between four and six. Otherwise, have

1595
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:34,439
Speaker 10: a fantastic Monday evening in the company of Cape Talk

1596
01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:35,360
Speaker 10: and seven O two.

1597
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:36,240
Speaker 1: It's eight o'clock