1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: That joining us this morning is that Jason Nickel from Doshguard. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: He's going to help us make sense of it all. Jason, 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: good to have you with. 4 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: Us, Good morning, great to be here. 5 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 3: We're not imagining it, are we? 6 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: But our everyday costs are going up and up and 7 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: up much more frequently. 8 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 4: Absolutely, we've noticed quite a significant rise in inflation, specifically 9 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 4: more under medical inflation. But yes, cost of living is 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 4: increasing considerably, and what's happening in the Middle East is 11 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 4: that's obviously going to help us in the near term. 12 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: Which of all of these increases food, fuel, electricity, medical aid, 13 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: which tends to hit households the hardest, Jason. 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 4: It would be fuel because fuel would obviously have a 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 4: knock on effect because it would affect groceries. It would 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 4: also potentially affect electricity pricing increases due to the nature 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 4: of the way electricity is created. So I think the 18 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 4: main way to watch out for is obviously the fuel prices. 19 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: When it comes to budgeting, it almost seems like it's 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: an impossible task to budget in a climate, an economic 21 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: climate where the goalposts seemed to be moving all the time. 22 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: I have sort of in mind a long term budget 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: for how I like to run my household, and then 24 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: there's you know, a slightly more. 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 3: Flexible, shorter term budget. 26 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: But how should we be treating these increases in fuel, 27 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: in food, in electricity, in medical aid When it comes 28 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: to budgeting, I. 29 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 3: Mean, is it a given? 30 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: Can can we do a budget for a year anymore? 31 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 3: Is that a realistic target? 32 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: And our budgets this year and this is how much 33 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: we're going to spend on gross reason? 34 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 3: This is how much? Is that realistic to look at 35 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: it in that way? 36 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's a great question and it's a question that 37 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 4: many South Africans are asked right now. So in terms 38 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 4: of the budget, in terms of your planning itself, the 39 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 4: only thing that we need to really consider is that 40 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 4: change is going to be a consistent, a constant that 41 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 4: we're going to experience, and what we need to do 42 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 4: is make sure that we have that flexibility within our 43 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 4: budget to allow for fuel price increases or different expenses 44 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 4: that we can't foresee. When we're actually drawing up our budget. 45 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 4: Many people draw up a very tight budget and which 46 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 4: doesn't give a lot of room. And also to have 47 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 4: your emergency fund in place that can also potentially act 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 4: as a shock absorber when there are significant. 49 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: Increases in cost of living. 50 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: Let's talk about emergency funds. How much should people realistically 51 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: aim to have set aside? Is there a formula an 52 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: equation for that amount? 53 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 4: Jason, Yes, So that's basically if you look at your 54 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 4: different stages of life, the more commitments that you have, 55 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 4: the longer the need is to have that emergency fund, 56 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 4: So the longer that emergency fund needs to be available 57 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 4: to you. So if we look at if you're a 58 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 4: single person mid twenties, you were probably looking at about 59 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 4: three months of your cost of living expenses, so to 60 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 4: have that saved up in a nice money market account 61 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 4: which is flexible and can be. 62 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: Gained at any time. 63 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 4: But also obviously when you have kids and you stign 64 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 4: to pay school fees and you've got the family car installment, 65 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 4: et cetera, you're probably looking closer to six to twelve 66 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 4: months to build up their cost of living. 67 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: As you're talking, Jason, and with all due respect, as 68 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: you're talking, I'm nodding along and intellectually I'm taking in 69 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: the information that you're saying. Realistically, I'm saying, what world 70 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,679 Speaker 1: are we living in that that people the average South 71 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: African who is living in the you know, and actually 72 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: maybe not even the average South African, the average middle 73 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: class South African does not have that. I can say 74 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: that right now, I can sit here with with and 75 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: be pretty assured that most people who are listening into 76 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: the show right now do not have the setup that 77 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: you that you are describing. 78 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 4: Yes, we see, they're quite common in South Africa. We 79 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 4: have at income base and jobs are paid at a 80 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 4: lower rate compared to other parts of the country, sorry, 81 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 4: other countries, and when we compare them to obviously are 82 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:00,679 Speaker 4: cost of living. 83 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: It's a very tight budget at the end of the day. 84 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 4: But I think what's really important is it's not those 85 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 4: are the ideal numbers. Sure you know, the three months, 86 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 4: the six months, the twelve months. I think the important 87 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 4: thing is just to start putting even if it's one 88 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 4: thousand rand or five hundred round a month away, and 89 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 4: know that that is your safety money. The important thing 90 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 4: is more about contributing to it and then not contributing 91 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 4: to it. 92 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: How how do you think what advice can you give 93 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: people around balancing short term financial pressure without damaging long 94 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: term goals? 95 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 3: And I'm immediately thinking of the two pop system. 96 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: I've run out of times that I've listened to conversations 97 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: on this station with various money experts that we have 98 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: on who have just even before the SEPTEP what was 99 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: it first Totember twenty twenty four, I think when that 100 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: came in and the advice on every single show that 101 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: was given was don't touch it, don't touch it. And 102 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: the answers that were coming back we have to, we 103 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 1: have to, and we did. 104 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 3: We are. We know this. 105 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: We know that we're dipping into that two pot system 106 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: and not to you know, go on lovely holidays, but 107 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: to survive, to pay the children's school fees, to make 108 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: sure that we can afford that medical aid, to pay 109 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: for the drip drip drip that's leaking on. If we 110 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: don't fix it now, then the entire roots going to 111 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: fall in. So how how do we balance that that 112 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: that financial pressure, the immediacy of that financial pressure, with 113 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: with those long term goals like retirement. 114 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a conundrum that many South Africans face 115 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 4: And the simple thing that we've got to ask ourselves 116 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 4: is are we living within our means? 117 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: Are there lifestyle expenses. 118 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 4: That are coming in that are maybe putting pressure on 119 00:06:54,240 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 4: the retirement saving contributions and if so, what is really 120 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 4: important to you? So it's about, you know, what do 121 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 4: you place the most immediate value on. Is it having 122 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 4: their fancy car or the fancier car, or is it 123 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 4: more focusing on the long term goal. In South Africa, 124 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 4: we do notice that a lot of people do like 125 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 4: to drive the more expensive cars relative to their income 126 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 4: and their costs. And do you like to try and 127 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 4: obviously stay in a better environment or a better suburb. 128 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 4: But it's really important that we understand what it is 129 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 4: that you want to achieve. Is it the long term 130 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 4: savings or is it, you know, spending more money now 131 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 4: living the lifestyle that you think or you believe that 132 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 4: you can afford. 133 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: If you're just joining us this morning, we are chatting 134 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: in our new Money Sense segment to Jason Nicol from 135 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: Doshguard really about planning for life expected increases. I wonder 136 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: how true it is to even call them unexpected increases 137 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: these days. 138 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 3: Though, you know, when whenever. 139 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: The conversation turns to money and budget, I just inevitably think, well, 140 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: everything's going up, isn't it. There's we're not going to 141 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: get to a situation where the medical aids not going up. 142 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: The electricity prices we know that for the foreseeable are 143 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: going We've already got next year's increases planned. 144 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 3: Ready to go. Yes, the situation, of course in. 145 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: The Gulf region has impacted fuel in a way perhaps 146 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: we hadn't necessarily predicted, but generally things are going up. 147 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: So Jason is here to give us some advice on 148 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: how to sort of make sense of it all and 149 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: protect yourself as as much as possible. 150 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 3: I wonder where where. 151 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: Do most people get caught out when it comes to 152 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: planning for these increases, Jason, do you. 153 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 4: Think, Yeah, it's it's it's when they're planned too rigid, 154 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 4: and when they plan with very little buffer for for 155 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 4: any sort of changes in cost of living that could 156 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 4: come up. So the important thing is to to make 157 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 4: sure that your plan can withstand you know, unseen unforeseen expenses. 158 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 4: And and unfortunately, you know, humans tend to act emotionally 159 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 4: and immediately, so when there is something major that comes up, 160 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 4: people tend to cut, panic adjust rather than making a 161 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 4: structural change right from the beginning to design buffer absorb 162 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 4: those expenses. And that is a I think that is 163 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 4: where a lot of South Africans you know, are not 164 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 4: planning as there maybe should be. 165 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: When it comes to reviewing one's financial plan or one's budget, 166 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: at what point do you advise that people? 167 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 3: I mean, is that something that I could do now? 168 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 3: Go okay? 169 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: Well things that you know, petrol's gone up? I should 170 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: I could go home now and sit down with my 171 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: with my calculator and my budget. Or is now the 172 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: time to pick up the phone to my certified financial planner, 173 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: who in all honesty I maybe speak to you once 174 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: every two years and say what what do I need 175 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: to do? Is this something that I need to get 176 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: an expert in on. 177 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: It? Is? 178 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 4: It is important to have an expert review that your 179 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 4: financial plan regularly and actually works with you to build 180 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 4: the right sort of buffers into your plan, considering especially 181 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 4: if volatile market situations where the price of living is affected. 182 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 4: So if you, we would definitely recommend at least once 183 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 4: a year is to review your financial your plan, because 184 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 4: as I said, it's not a fixed blueprint, it's a 185 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 4: it's essentially it's a it's a living system that is 186 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 4: placed under pressure, and and that is the way you 187 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 4: you know, if you frame it in that in that sense, 188 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 4: you would find that it will be a little bit 189 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 4: easier to to to allocate the numbers to the different 190 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 4: fields that you would like to place it. So, yes, 191 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 4: I think it's very important that you meet with a 192 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 4: financial planner and at least once a year to review 193 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 4: your your short term as well as your long term plans. 194 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: In my next question might appear quite quite quite crass 195 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: in that it's it's is this more about just cutting costs, 196 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: as in, well, then don't go to the gym, don't 197 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: have your gym membership? 198 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 3: Is it about earning more? 199 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: And again one's hands would would be tied on that 200 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: there's any there's only so much that you can that 201 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: you can earn, isn't there? Or is it about planning 202 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: smarter or a combination of all three? Because I'm sure 203 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: there's people listening in now going okay, sure, I mean 204 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: I probably could go and ask for us more money 205 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: from my boss. She's probably going to say no, okay, 206 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: cutting costs okay, But we're already down to the wire. 207 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: We've moved the kids out of private school, they're now 208 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: in the public school, we don't go to the gym anymore. 209 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: And planning smarter, Yeah, and exactly as we've just just 210 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: had the conversation about Jason. Yeah, you know, but if 211 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: I if I move, what paying what are they they 212 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: paying Peter to paper? 213 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 3: What's it robbing from Peter to paper that you know 214 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 3: moving that? What? What? What's the answer of those three things? 215 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: Or is it is it a combination of all three? 216 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 2: It's definitely a combination of all three? What the what? 217 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 4: The important thing is though, is that people when they 218 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 4: failed to plan correctly or fail to plan at all, 219 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 4: they don't know what's the what is needed to make 220 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 4: sure that their life, their life's plan is successful. And 221 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 4: that's really important. To map out the different events to 222 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 4: child going to a university in a few years, time, buying, 223 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 4: you helping, paying cost towards a wedding, you know, all 224 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 4: of those sort of lifestyle expenses. If you've you know, 225 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 4: projected in the future, you need to determine what are 226 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 4: those lifestyle expenses are important to you. Revisit your budget, 227 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 4: make trade offs if required. But it's the most important 228 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 4: thing is that you you get to learn how much 229 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 4: is enough for me to do to live this life 230 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 4: that I'd like to live, and based off that information, 231 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 4: it will give you. It gives you an idea of 232 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 4: what you can do. It's quite empowering because when people 233 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 4: know what that number is, so say, for example, you 234 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 4: realize you about fifteen thousand rd amunth short It's amazing. 235 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 4: I've noticed with people that we work with how quickly 236 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 4: they look for another job that maybe pays to that 237 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 4: mount more, or they've build a side hustle that helps 238 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 4: with that to achieve those targets, to make sure that 239 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 4: they're financially flexible. It's just been empowered to know what 240 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 4: is the shortfall and how do you and how do 241 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 4: you cover it. 242 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: I think that's a really interesting point and one that 243 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up on in that my own 244 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: experience before kind of before having children and when I 245 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: was just you know, young, free and single and earning 246 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: a reasonable salary but never felt like I had any money, 247 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: got myself a certified financial planner and actually, you know, yeah, 248 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: put me in a much better position because of the information. 249 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: And I think I wonder how many people are in 250 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: that situation. And a lot of it is avoidance as well, 251 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: I think is that you don't often want to face 252 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: the reality because it feels overwhelming. Nicol joining us this morning, 253 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: from Dosh Guide. For this new money segment, we're calling 254 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: it Money Sense.