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Speaker 1: You're going away, remember to take seven o two and

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Speaker 1: Kate's up with you down the Primaria plus app Now.

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Speaker 2: Seven minutes after six pm you're tuned into seven oh two.

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Speaker 2: In Cape Talk, my name is Nogo Kayyam Dambo. A

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Speaker 2: very happy New Year to you, Welcome to the other

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Speaker 2: side of twenty twenty six. We're quite late into the day,

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Speaker 2: so I'm pretty sure that you've heard enough of that

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Speaker 2: just today on its own, A Happy New Year? Have

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Speaker 2: you sent enough of those texts? I know earlier in

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Speaker 2: the day comment on my DS on the Clement Manya

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Speaker 2: Tela show had a conversation about when the right time

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Speaker 2: is to stop with those sort of conversations.

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Speaker 3: I went away in quickly.

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Speaker 2: Mine is the first week of January and already I'm done.

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Speaker 3: With all of those festivities.

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Speaker 2: My mom's one of those people who will say it

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Speaker 2: all the way throughout the year, and she usually has

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Speaker 2: this beaming smile on her face, always toughed when she's saying.

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Speaker 2: You can almost feel her excitement when it comes to that.

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Speaker 2: Always so bizarre to me. So a very happy New

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Speaker 2: Year to you. If you don't care me saying at

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Speaker 2: anytime later in the year, please know that. I really

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Speaker 2: mean no harm in it. It's just it's just got

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Speaker 2: to go. In the first week. Same with the Christmas trees.

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Speaker 2: We were actually talking about those just now. They're still

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Speaker 2: up in our building just outside the studio where we

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Speaker 2: are now. You can see one of those upstairs in

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Speaker 2: the newsroom. We've got two or or three Christmas trees

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Speaker 2: that are still up. And you know, the question really

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Speaker 2: was when do we take them down? I would have

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Speaker 2: said the thirty first of December. And I love Christmas tree,

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Speaker 2: so I have nothing against them either. But I would

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Speaker 2: have said the thirty first of December. They must also

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Speaker 2: come down. But apparently you know the end of January, do.

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Speaker 3: You still have your trees up?

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Speaker 2: How much longer do you think you can keep that going?

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Speaker 2: They've got to go at some point, you know, at

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Speaker 2: some point anyway, Please do let me know how much

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Speaker 2: longer you plan on having those up pace if they

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Speaker 2: are still up at home, at work, if you are

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Speaker 2: at the office already, and when you know the right

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Speaker 2: time for yous to start with the festivities. Anyway, I

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Speaker 2: am in for Stephen Corretez this evening. It's the finals

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Speaker 2: installment of the first festive edition of the show. Regular programming,

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Speaker 2: of course, resumes for the most part on Monday. And

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Speaker 2: if that doesn't tell you something about the year being

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Speaker 2: in full swing, then I actually don't know what will.

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Speaker 2: What are you looking forward to the most this year?

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Speaker 2: Are you starting a new job? Are you getting married?

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Speaker 2: Have you just moved out of home into a new home?

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Speaker 2: Are you turning twenty thirty, forty, fifty sixty, you know

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Speaker 2: the big ones? Or are you ready to travel again?

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Speaker 2: Have you planned your next trip? Do you know where

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Speaker 2: you're going? Is that what you're looking most forward to

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Speaker 2: this year? Please do let us know. Ohs and two

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Speaker 2: seven oh two one seven oh two. That's our WhatsApp line.

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Speaker 2: You're more than welcome to drop us a text there

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Speaker 2: or a voice note letting us know what your thoughts

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Speaker 2: on or you can give us a call on O

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Speaker 2: double one, double eight three, O seven O two. We're

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Speaker 2: also available on the socials on x it's Radio seven

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Speaker 2: seven oh two and I'm at Kanya Underscore Dumb.

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Speaker 1: Relaxed this summer with podcasts from your favorite shows on

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Speaker 1: Climmedia plus dot com.

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Speaker 2: Plenty in store for you between eight six and eight

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Speaker 2: pm today. Of course, we'll get started with what we

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Speaker 2: usually do at this time of the year, just as

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Speaker 2: we prepare for regular programming across the board, not just

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Speaker 2: for programming and for broadcasting, but really just as you

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Speaker 2: also get back.

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Speaker 3: Into the swing of things.

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Speaker 2: We usually do just an economic wrap of twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: but more importantly the outlook for twenty twenty six, So

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Speaker 2: we'll get started with that in just a bit, and

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Speaker 2: politically economist Dale McKinley will join us for that conversation

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Speaker 2: to give us his sense of what the year will

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Speaker 2: look like.

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Speaker 3: We'll also have.

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Speaker 2: A conversation about planning for a family if you have

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Speaker 2: either just had a child or planning on having a

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Speaker 2: child starting a family this year, what sort of conversations

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Speaker 2: do you need to have when it comes to your finances.

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Speaker 2: And then in the second hour we'll have a conversation

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Speaker 2: about overcoming Impasta syndrome, how it you know, presents itself

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Speaker 2: and what you need to do to get over it

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Speaker 2: or get through it rather. And then we'll also as

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Speaker 2: always have a conversation about your travel plans for the year,

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Speaker 2: what sort of plan and trends really that you need

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Speaker 2: to be looking out for, And then we'll close the

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Speaker 2: show off later on with the business of sports, taking

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Speaker 2: a look at the big competitions that we're expecting to

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Speaker 2: see throughout the year, an the fee for World Cup

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Speaker 2: and so on. You know, what does this actually mean

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Speaker 2: for national economies? How can we turn those and spim

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Speaker 2: those into money into some of our pockets as well.

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Speaker 2: So trickling all the way down from a fan perspective

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Speaker 2: and then from a business perspective. So please do make

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Speaker 2: sure that you stay with us throughout the.

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Speaker 4: Show, walking this talk together every hour every day.

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Speaker 3: This is seven o two.

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Speaker 5: Let's walk the talk.

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Speaker 2: Similar in too in Cape Talk. Of course, South Africa's

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Speaker 2: economy has faced a mix.

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Speaker 3: Of not just precious but also progress.

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Speaker 2: In twenty twenty five, when we looked at the infrastructure challenges,

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Speaker 2: some may argue that it eased a little and it

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Speaker 2: started to look better, particularly for ESCAM, which is really

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Speaker 2: important for the economy, you know, and that's just domestically.

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Speaker 2: But then we also look at the global economic conditions

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Speaker 2: and some of the developments we saw there as well,

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Speaker 2: a mixed picture there as well. And you'll if you

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Speaker 2: think about President Donald Trump really shaping a lot of

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Speaker 2: what happened abroad, all of those you know, created a

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Speaker 2: picture that I think President Siltrama Pausa in that address

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Speaker 2: that we played for you on Wednesday on the thirty first,

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Speaker 2: his New Year's address gave him a little bit of optimism,

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Speaker 2: and I asked you if you've got the same sense

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Speaker 2: of optimism. Today we're having Dale McKinley, who's a political economist,

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Speaker 2: maybe giving his sense as well about what he you know,

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Speaker 2: if he can just shine his crystal ball into next

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Speaker 2: year and whether any of those developments or all of

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Speaker 2: those developments will then materialize into a better picture for

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Speaker 2: South Africa next year. He's obviously been closely tracking a

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Speaker 2: lot of those domestic and international trends that are shaping

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Speaker 2: the economic future of Essay and the Glow, Doctor Dale McKinley,

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Speaker 2: A very good evening to you. Thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for joining us this evening.

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Speaker 6: Yes and your listeners now, its pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Always lovely having you on the show. Let's start with

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five itself. How would you describe the most

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Speaker 2: significant economic highlights for South Africa for twenty twenty with

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Speaker 2: a positive or negative?

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Speaker 3: How would you describe them?

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Speaker 7: Well, looking on the sort of I guess with the

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Speaker 7: negative side, I think the big The big issue was

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Speaker 7: obviously the tariffs, their relationship with the United States Trump

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Speaker 7: imposing on the tariffs on our economy in particular sectors,

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Speaker 7: but then obviously the G twenty following that, the boycott

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Speaker 7: of the G twenty, in the fallout from that. I

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Speaker 7: think that economically has had quite a bit of impact.

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Speaker 7: I think a lot of it's more reputational than substance

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Speaker 7: of it. In many cases, I think many people thought

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Speaker 7: it was going to be greater, the impact was going

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Speaker 7: to be greater negative than it has been. I think

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Speaker 7: obviously the automotive sector has not done too well in

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Speaker 7: terms of the US market, and the agricultural sector has

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Speaker 7: been hit. But generally speaking, the flip side of that coin,

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Speaker 7: the positive side, has opened up new opportunities for US

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Speaker 7: in globally, new trade opportunities, new political relationships on that context,

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Speaker 7: So I think in some ways it in some ways

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Speaker 7: it canceled, it's out. I think the other economic story

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Speaker 7: that was sort of in some ways a positive one

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Speaker 7: was obviously escam as you mentioned, and the ability of

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Speaker 7: the state on enterprises to begin to start, should we say,

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Speaker 7: clawing some of the ground back from the state capture

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Speaker 7: years and getting more efficiency and more delivery. I think

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Speaker 7: that's been a very positive thing. And the third thing

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Speaker 7: is our currency. The currency is i think a ten

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Speaker 7: year high almost in relation to major currencies, and that

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Speaker 7: has created quite a bit of leg room in terms

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Speaker 7: of treasury as well as fiscal and financial stuff. So

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Speaker 7: I would say those are some of the key ones.

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Speaker 2: I mean, economic growth still remains a big concern, do

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Speaker 2: you reckon And I know President Stomaposa in a lot

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Speaker 2: of the business community, I think it was either the

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Speaker 2: beginning of last year or just at the end of

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Speaker 2: the previous year, had predicted a three percent or starting

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Speaker 2: to look at a three percent send GDP growth on

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Speaker 2: average at least going into this year and next year.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we're likely to see that. Looking at

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Speaker 2: where on average our GDP has been this year.

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Speaker 7: Your sense, Yeah, I'm not one of those that's too

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Speaker 7: optimistic about it reaching that that's that number. I think

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Speaker 7: we're going to still see fairly anemic growth, probably in

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Speaker 7: the range of one point five to maybe between one

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Speaker 7: point five and two for lucky. And that has to

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Speaker 7: do with the real elephant in the room in our economy,

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Speaker 7: which is our structural barriers. To growth in our economy.

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Speaker 7: So we I think what has improved and what we've

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Speaker 7: seen is, you know you pign direct investment is kicked

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Speaker 7: up a bit. The sense of infrastructurals, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 7: challenges have been somewhat addressed, and there's a there's a

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Speaker 7: general I think a better sort of optimism on that front.

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Speaker 7: But the problem is that hasn't translated into job creation,

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Speaker 7: hasn't translated into small businesses and medium scale businesses benefiting

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Speaker 7: a great deal from that growth, and that's why we

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Speaker 7: see increasing levels of poverty, increasing levels of desperation, material

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Speaker 7: desperation in our country. And I think in that sense,

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Speaker 7: while we can have one point five to two percent growth,

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Speaker 7: the fundamental question we have to ask ourselves is who

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Speaker 7: does that growth benefit. If that growth does not move

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Speaker 7: into making opportunities for ordinary South Africans, then it's only

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Speaker 7: going to benefit a small minority of us, and that

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Speaker 7: is our problem. In the last twenty five thirty years,

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Speaker 7: we have a dual economy. We have an economy that

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Speaker 7: functions fairly well and in some ways as a first

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Speaker 7: world and we have an economy that is almost a

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Speaker 7: third or fourth world economy that is slipping under the carpet,

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Speaker 7: so to speak. And that's where the growth issue is

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Speaker 7: not just enough to talk about growth, it's where the

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Speaker 7: growth goes and how that money is spent.

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Speaker 2: At what point do we reach the turning point? If

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Speaker 2: you're saying you're not one of the very optimistic economists

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Speaker 2: who forecast us getting to that three percent in the

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Speaker 2: next two three years or so, and you know, averaging

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Speaker 2: at one point five, which I also still think is

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Speaker 2: quite optimistic even at one point five this year, But

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Speaker 2: at what point do we reach the turning point?

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Speaker 8: Then?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's a difficult question to answer because I think,

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Speaker 7: I mean, I've argued, and I think, you know, in

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Speaker 7: some ways it's a minority voice, I understand, but it's

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Speaker 7: a we haven't grasped the structural issues in our economy,

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Speaker 7: and that means we still have an aparthe eight economy.

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Speaker 7: And I mean that not in the in the legal

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Speaker 7: sense of the term, but in the social and economic

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Speaker 7: sense of the term. We can see it in the

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Speaker 7: spatial development. We can see this, and so I think,

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Speaker 7: what what we we have yet to grab? Our treasury

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Speaker 7: and our economists and the people who are running the

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Speaker 7: country have been very, very conservative conservative monetarily inflation related

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Speaker 7: interest rates and so forth, and trying to make sure

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Speaker 7: that we don't And it's understandable that we don't have

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Speaker 7: runaway inflation, the prices are kept in check and so forth,

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Speaker 7: but we have to have an expansion. And I think

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Speaker 7: that it's going to come when the A and C,

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Speaker 7: in particular at the local government elections gets hammered again.

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Speaker 7: And I think it's going to get even hammered further,

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Speaker 7: and we're going to get into another political situation where

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Speaker 7: not only has the ANC lost national power at least majority,

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Speaker 7: but mostly at all metros and others. It's done the same,

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Speaker 7: not just in joe Burg where I live. So I

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Speaker 7: think that's going to possibly be a turning point where

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Speaker 7: the hopefully the conversation is going to become we need

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Speaker 7: to embrace some seriously new measures economic measures, some expansionary

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Speaker 7: economic measures, bite the bullet. Yes, there's some risks, but

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Speaker 7: we have to go somewhere differently than what we've been doing.

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Speaker 7: We cannot tread the same sort of treadmill that we've

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Speaker 7: been doing for the last fifteen years, otherwise we're going

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Speaker 7: to see the same results.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you stressed a structural barriers quite a bit in

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Speaker 2: terms of the impediment to growth stall in the South

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Speaker 2: African context.

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Speaker 3: But we do see.

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Speaker 2: Programs such as Operation woolin Kaila trying to address at

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Speaker 2: least some of those barriers. How long it may take,

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Speaker 2: of course, there's a different question altogether. But do those

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Speaker 2: bode any sort of confidence for you? I mean, Operation

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Speaker 2: Volntje is but one of the examples that I can

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Speaker 2: think of at the moment. It's probably the key of

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Speaker 2: those programs that the government and the private sector are

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Speaker 2: trying to use to drive growth. Does that bode any

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Speaker 2: confidence at all in terms of the progress that we've

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Speaker 2: seen we're in phase two if I'm not mistaken.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it builds confidence in certain sectors of the economy.

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Speaker 7: It builds confidence within the private sector, corporate capital and

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Speaker 7: others who can see you know that there's money to

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Speaker 7: be made and that there can be some growth and

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Speaker 7: there can be a certain job creation. But it doesn't don't.

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Speaker 7: I don't think the operation will speak to the majority

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Speaker 7: of the people. Now, if we're going to talk about

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Speaker 7: the majority of South Africans and particularly those that are

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Speaker 7: in the working class, we're talking about people who don't

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Speaker 7: have the kind of skills that are necessary to compete

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Speaker 7: within the economy, the AI economy, the new technologies and

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Speaker 7: other kinds of things. Yes, we have a certain expansion

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Speaker 7: within the mining extractive sector, but that's limited in terms

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Speaker 7: of job creation, so we need to retool and I

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Speaker 7: don't see operations. What we need to do is it's

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Speaker 7: not a bad thing, but we need we need an

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Speaker 7: economic program that skills people, that upscals people, that invest

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Speaker 7: in local economies, that drive small scale and medium scale enterprises.

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Speaker 7: We've got a lot of talk and a lot of

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Speaker 7: smoke on that front, but not a great deal of action.

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Speaker 7: And that's where I would be very critical, is to

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Speaker 7: say that we focus so much attention on the big picture,

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Speaker 7: on the big corporation, the big investments, that those kinds

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Speaker 7: of things that we've forgotten about the ordinary person and

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Speaker 7: what really drives an economy is local economies, and that's

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Speaker 7: where the investment has been lacking.

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Speaker 3: Yep. Just speaking about the people.

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Speaker 2: Now, come back to a lot of the other points

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Speaker 2: that you've made as well, in terms of the tariffs,

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Speaker 2: the reputational damage in terms of G twenty, and some

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Speaker 2: of those are the key developments, but just speaking about

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Speaker 2: the ordinary South Africans.

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Speaker 9: Now.

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Speaker 3: One of the big key.

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Speaker 2: Talking points during the year has also been the question

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Speaker 2: about inflation, whether it's moderated. Then we had the announcement

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Speaker 2: by the Reserve Bank as well as Treasury and in collaboration,

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Speaker 2: a highly anticipated decision where we saw the interest rate,

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Speaker 2: the apologies the inflation target. The interest rates have also

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Speaker 2: you know, somewhat eased. I don't know if it materializes,

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Speaker 2: and I said this on Wednesday, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: South Africans feel it in their pockets when we say

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Speaker 2: inflation is moderated and the interest rates have come down

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Speaker 2: a little, does it Does it translate to them?

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Speaker 7: It can, It's not I think, you know, we've tended

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Speaker 7: to focus on the sort of theoretical assumptions of you know, okay,

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Speaker 7: you establish a particular interest rate, it then frees up people.

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Speaker 7: It doesn't make you pay as much on credit. There's

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Speaker 7: a little bit more. Yes, these things do have meaningful impact.

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Speaker 7: But as you say, in the context of where you

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Speaker 7: don't have a job and you're or you're you're you're

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Speaker 7: scratching out, you know, basically eking out piece jobs and others,

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Speaker 7: it's the impact is going to be minimal. It's going

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Speaker 7: to be more on the middle class, upper middle class

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Speaker 7: people who've got a lot of debt, who we've got

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Speaker 7: huge bonds out or car payments or whatever those kinds

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Speaker 7: of things are. So I think in that sense, yes,

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Speaker 7: it does have an impact. The inflation targeting, My sense

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Speaker 7: is it's too strict. It's a I understand the theoretical

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Speaker 7: assumptions behind the desire to lower it to three percent,

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Speaker 7: but in the context of a developing country, and this

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Speaker 7: is the irony, is that we're expected to South Africa

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Speaker 7: to grow, and yet we're not given the tools necessarily

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Speaker 7: of expansionary fiscal tools in order to achieve that growth.

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Speaker 7: And what that means is we do have to go

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Speaker 7: into some debt, we do have to go into We

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Speaker 7: have to believe any business will know that you've got

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Speaker 7: to spend in order to make and then it's not

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Speaker 7: different from any economy. And I think there's a real

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Speaker 7: conserve inbuilt conservatism which is understandable to some extent, but

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Speaker 7: doesn't apply in our particular circumstances when you're trying to

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Speaker 7: overcome thirty forty fifty years of really deep seated structural

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Speaker 7: legacies here and you've got to be bold, and we've

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Speaker 7: got to be radical. So my sense is we need

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Speaker 7: a much more expansionary fiscal policy. We need to be

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Speaker 7: live bit looser in relation to the inflation rate. And

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Speaker 7: if that is if the money you spend. Here's the

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Speaker 7: other thing, which is all of that is dependent upon

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Speaker 7: a capable state, and this is what we lack. Because

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Speaker 7: if we can do all these policy things but we

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Speaker 7: don't have a capable of state to drive that agenda,

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Speaker 7: then what's going to fail. And I think that's where

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Speaker 7: sometimes the conversation falls, is that we have all the

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Speaker 7: policies in place, we have good laws, we have good policies,

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Speaker 7: but the implementation falters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And obviously a capable state is really important in

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Speaker 2: terms of, you know, affecting some of the policies that

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Speaker 2: you mentioned. The politics of the day are also quite

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Speaker 2: important for shaping investor confidence as well. In twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: we especially in the earlier part of the year, had

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Speaker 2: predicted whether or not the GNU would survive, you know,

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Speaker 2: and how it would influence you know, politics and filtered

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Speaker 2: down into the economy as well. It did survive, fortunately,

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Speaker 2: but we go into the local government elections this year,

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Speaker 2: which is quite important. And you said already that the

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Speaker 2: ANC would need to take another hammering for us to

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Speaker 2: come to a place where there's growth in the country

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Speaker 2: or we start to move towards the place as well.

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Speaker 2: Speak to me about the politics of twenty twenty five

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Speaker 2: and how we imagine they'll play out in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Tripling down a game to the economy as well.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a difficult you know, as you said, you're

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Speaker 7: gazing into this crystal ball is very difficult. I think

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Speaker 7: what we can is prognosticate a bit more confidently about

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Speaker 7: is the fact that the ANC is going to lose

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Speaker 7: further ground within the political realm, and I think that's

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Speaker 7: going to change the picture. I'm not sure. My sense

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Speaker 7: is that what it's going to do is it's going

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Speaker 7: to embed coalition politics in our political entities and otherwise

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Speaker 7: we've experimented with it at certain levels, but this is

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Speaker 7: going to almost formalize it. And I think that's going

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Speaker 7: to make it's going to trickle down in the sense

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Speaker 7: of you can't have it your own way. You can't

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Speaker 7: just come up within your own party a particular policy

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Speaker 7: and say we're going to implement this, which the ANC

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Speaker 7: has been so used to doing for the last thirty years.

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Speaker 8: You're going to have to.

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Speaker 7: Negotiate and that creates some difficulties obviously in terms of information,

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Speaker 7: but it also creates the possibilities that those policies are

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Speaker 7: more representative, that they're more that they're not just particular

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Speaker 7: speaking to particular constituents or particular interests in the political

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Speaker 7: party or let's say and be e terms or whatever

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Speaker 7: it is. So I think in that context there could

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Speaker 7: be some serious positive repercussions of us moving towards a

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Speaker 7: much more plurality of of a political realm. I think

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Speaker 7: on the economic side, as I as I mentioned, my

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Speaker 7: sense is that what we're gonna we're going to get

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Speaker 7: some I think, uh, I should we say positive follow

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Speaker 7: ons from from what's happened in the last year with stabilization.

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Speaker 7: There's I mean, it's not it's we shouldn't underestimate the

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Speaker 7: fact that we have stabilized s com that we don't

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Speaker 7: have these things. But now water is our next you know,

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Speaker 7: it's not just next, yeah, and it is it's already. Honest,

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Speaker 7: it's not just next one. It's here already. And that's

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Speaker 7: got to be dealt with. So there's it's it's a

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Speaker 7: it's a combination. On my sense is that we cannot

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Speaker 7: deal with the economic side until we deal with the

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Speaker 7: governance side in tandem. The two go hand in hand.

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Speaker 7: That's why we talk about political economy, so we can

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Speaker 7: and this is why. So for sample, you know, let's

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Speaker 7: just take an example that people think, oh, Helen Zillah

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Speaker 7: will become mayor of joe Berg, the DA might take

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Speaker 7: over joe Berg. Well, and that things are going to

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Speaker 7: get fixed, not necessarily, because if we don't have the

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Speaker 7: proper policies, for example, on water issues, where people who

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Speaker 7: are being have been without water for weeks are getting

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Speaker 7: prioritized as opposed to the northern suburbs and the upper

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Speaker 7: middle classes, then we're going to have the same kinds

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Speaker 7: of problems of inequality and lack of equity. And I

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Speaker 7: think that's the way the politics comes in, is that

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Speaker 7: I'm hoping that in twenty twenty six, what we do

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Speaker 7: is we cross a threshold where are politics matures to

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Speaker 7: the extent that people can understand that they need to

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Speaker 7: work together, they need to compromise, they need to come

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Speaker 7: up with policies that are beneficial across the board, and

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Speaker 7: not just a specific interest. I think our economy is

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Speaker 7: oftentimes hostage still to very specific monopolistic interest.

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Speaker 2: How to squeeze the global picture in a few minutes

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Speaker 2: that we have left, But we can't go without talking

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Speaker 2: about the impact that the return of US President Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump has had on the global landscape. I mean, it

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Speaker 2: was just this time last year when he was only

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Speaker 2: just being about to be installed in fact as a

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Speaker 2: US president, and since then quite an upheaval on the

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Speaker 2: global front, tariffs that you've mentioned.

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Speaker 3: You know, we are.

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Speaker 2: Looking at a new governor for the US FED, and

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Speaker 2: that may change, of course, how they approach interest rates,

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Speaker 2: and of course the rest of the emerging economies may

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Speaker 2: may not follow as well. Speak to me about the

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Speaker 2: expectations for this year, the trade relations, where the new

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Speaker 2: markets are going to be. The rand also strengthened, mostly

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Speaker 2: on the back of a US dollar. What's the picture

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Speaker 2: looking like from there?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's unpredictable, let's put I think that's the word

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Speaker 7: we must use because with Donald Trump and power, everything

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Speaker 7: is unpredictable. We don't have no idea what he can.

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Speaker 7: He can change his mind within a second or a

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Speaker 7: day or a month and then it can be very different.

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Speaker 7: But I think we can look at trends and I

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Speaker 7: think those trends are that what where, And this is

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Speaker 7: where South Africa I think can play a more outsized

437
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 7: role on a global space, is that we have countries

438
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 7: retreating to a narrow nationalisms, to the me first, you know,

439
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 7: our country first kind of politics and you know, put

440
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 7: up the walls, put up the gates and try to

441
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 7: sort of, you know, become self sufficient again in that way.

442
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 7: And that's not going to work because we've had as

443
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 7: we know for the reasons. And South Africa can play

444
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 7: this role in contesting that agenda. Our president has already

445
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 7: done so to some extent with the G twenty process

446
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 7: and I think can continue to do that. I think

447
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 7: that's important politically because of what it does is it

448
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 7: provides us with a global leadership role. Again in some ways,

449
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 7: we lost the moral mantle quite some time ago, but

450
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 7: we can take up a different kind of mantle on

451
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 7: the economic equity front, and I think we are well

452
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 7: placed to do that. I think the second thing that

453
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 7: can that can happen on the on the global front,

454
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 7: and what we can expect is that we can expect

455
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 7: that this agenda that Trump and many Europeans and others

456
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 7: this you know, as I said, this maga kind of

457
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 7: of ours is not going to do what it says.

458
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 7: In other words, it's going to hurt economies. We can

459
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 7: see what's happening to the United States, and there's going

460
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 7: to be a pushback. There's going to be a realization

461
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 7: even though gradually throughout the year, this is not a

462
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 7: path that everybody should follow, and I think that's going

463
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,239
Speaker 7: to have seceious political impacts. There's many elections that are

464
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 7: coming up, the US midterm elections. Those are going to

465
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 7: be very interesting because the Democrats take back control of Congress.

466
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 7: Then we've got a different ballgame in the sense of

467
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 7: the US potential policies and others. I think we also

468
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 7: are going to see China. We cannot talk of globalffairs

469
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 7: without talking about China in particular, and it's increasing economic role,

470
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 7: particularly in our country and our continent. I think we're

471
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 7: going to see it's playing not a cold war scenario

472
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 7: but a competitive scenario with the United States playing those

473
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,239
Speaker 7: We could get caught in the middle of some of that,

474
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 7: but I think we could extract some really good concessions

475
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 7: out of that process and play that sort of middle

476
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 7: role in that context. And then of course the conflicts

477
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 7: and the wars that are going on globally, not only

478
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 7: in our continent but elsewhere. I think again South Africa

479
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 7: can play a meaningful role. I think we should be

480
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 7: prepared for a bumpy ride. We're going to have a

481
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 7: bump her. Things are not going to go I don't

482
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 7: think that well on number of fronts. But I think

483
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 7: what we're in is twenty twenty six can be a

484
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 7: year that transits us to something different, and I have

485
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 7: an optimism there. I think by the end of twenty

486
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 7: twenty six would have moved past some of the worst

487
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 7: context or situations that we faced in the last year,

488
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 7: particularly with Trump, and we could have some openings both

489
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 7: on the economic and political fronts. So that would be

490
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 7: a little bit more rational, a little bit more filled

491
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 7: with sanity.

492
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: All right, Dell, let's leave it there. Thank you so

493
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 2: much for your time this evening. That's Dale McKinley, who

494
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 2: is a politically economist, cautiously optimistic as we approach twenty

495
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: twenty six in terms of not just the domestic economy

496
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: but the global economy as well, if we get these

497
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 2: structural reforms right, which may still take some time even

498
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 2: with operation Willingly in place, plus a capable state, and

499
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: perhaps you could see some movements there on a global landscape.

500
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 2: The trump card continuing to be really the big shoka

501
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 2: for the year. A bumpy ride, he says, but could

502
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 2: take us to a different place from here. We have

503
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: unfortunately reached the first half of the hour, the end

504
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: of the first half hour. For first half hour, a

505
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 2: very great conversation there with Dale McKinley seven two, great

506
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 2: talk Summer twenty minutes two seven, Thank you so much

507
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 2: for joining us on seven oh two and Cape talk.

508
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: We continue in the second half of the first hour.

509
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 2: Why do I love those tongue twisters so much? Because

510
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 2: I know they're going to trip me up, I insist

511
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: on saying, the first half of the first hour and

512
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,239
Speaker 2: the second half of the first hour, that's where we

513
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 2: are now. Earlier on in the I think it was

514
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 2: a Homoto show again. They had a conversation about parents

515
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: who have parented multiples, and that could be thinking about

516
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 2: the sort of conversations we need to be having when

517
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: we are in the process of family planning, and of

518
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: course becoming a parent is a whole new responsibility. It's

519
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: an exciting milestone, but it also comes with a lot

520
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 2: of anxiety, especially if your finances are not quite where

521
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: they need to be, you know, and we start to

522
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 2: bring in that as well. There's usually no amount of

523
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 2: planning that I think can truly prepare you for that

524
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 2: sort of life changing moment as a parent. But I

525
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 2: do think we can have, you know, some honest conversations

526
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: about what you need to make sure you try to

527
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: do to try and navigate that space. So to try

528
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: and make that easier for you, We've asked Sebnjobo, who's

529
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 2: the director and wealth manager at Vela or Wealth, to

530
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: speak to us about how you can perhaps restructure your

531
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: finances when a baby comes into the picture, whether now

532
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: or if it's still something that you are planning to

533
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: do in the next maybe year or two or maybe

534
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 2: even five viewers see about a very good evening to you.

535
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us on seven or

536
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: twenty Kate talk this evening.

537
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 8: Evening not kind to you and your listeners. Thank you

538
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 8: for having me such a pleasure.

539
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 2: It's about a lot of people know early on that

540
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 2: they're going to want a family. They may not want

541
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: it now, and it's not everybody, of course, but for

542
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people, starting a family is in their

543
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: future at some point. First, speak to me about the

544
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: sort of mindset that you need to get yourself into

545
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 2: when you decide that that is something that you want

546
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 2: in your future, before we then start speaking about the finances,

547
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 2: because I think once you've got the mindset right, the

548
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 2: finances may come a little easier as well.

549
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 8: Sure, thank you for that question. I think from a

550
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 8: mindset perspective, it's understanding that even the baby planning process

551
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 8: itself can take an emotional toolony, especially if you struggle

552
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 8: to conceive, because that is a reality a lot of

553
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 8: couple's faith and it's something that couples don't necessarily know

554
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 8: how to plan for how to take that setback. So

555
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 8: there is a lot of emotional work that needs to

556
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 8: go into that process of wanting to have a baby.

557
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 8: Let's start there. Then if you have that in place,

558
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 8: you can then have the financial conversation. Also, there are

559
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 8: a lot of medical issues that one needs to also confined,

560
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 8: also looking into IVF, struggling to conceive and what other

561
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,479
Speaker 8: medical options are they to help you in this process

562
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 8: of baby waking.

563
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, at what point do you actually start planning financially

564
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,719
Speaker 2: for a baby? Is it a year ahead of the decision?

565
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: And again it's not everybody who makes the conscious decisions

566
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 2: that they want to have a child and exactly the timeline.

567
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 2: But perhaps even though you know you want a child,

568
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 2: you may not have a timeline for it. But for

569
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: those who are planners to the tea shouldn't be a

570
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: year ahead of it, two years five maybe? Realistically speaking,

571
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: when do you start making you know, putting pen to

572
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: paper in terms of financially planning for a child.

573
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 8: I'm going to put that back in the work then

574
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 8: actually say this really talks to one's individual financial plan

575
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 8: and toe of my current budget, how much can I

576
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 8: actually practically put away towards the future need or future

577
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,719
Speaker 8: wants of the fact that I want a baby? So

578
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 8: it really you need to look at where you are

579
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,959
Speaker 8: now and see from your current budget how much can

580
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 8: I allocate to this future for the baby. Also in

581
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 8: terms of the education planning, just planning, I here to say,

582
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 8: if I want a baby in the next twelve months,

583
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 8: how much am I putting away and factor that into

584
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 8: your current budget? Understanding that you are saving for that

585
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 8: long term goal that you want, which is to start

586
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 8: the family. So I'd say also as soon as possible

587
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 8: would be a good place to start. But be practical though,

588
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 8: looking at what you can afford.

589
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what are the financial basics that you need

590
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: to prioritize, whether you're a first time parent or you're

591
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: trying for a second time and perhaps want to do

592
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 2: things a little differently and a little better. You know,

593
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: in the next round, should you be looking at and

594
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: you've already mentioned your personal financial plan, you know a

595
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: lot of it will hinge on that. But should you

596
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: be looking at your budget first or fixing debts and

597
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: again debt will go into your budget because those are

598
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: the sort of expenses that you make provision for in

599
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: your budget in any case, or do you need to

600
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: then start talking about emergency savings?

601
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 3: What are the priorities there?

602
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 8: I love how you upstated it. We started the budget

603
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 8: because we look at where you are now and you

604
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 8: realistically plan a here to say, all right, if this

605
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 8: happens in the next six months or a year, well,

606
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 8: what financial shock will I have if I have this

607
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 8: child in the next nine months, for example? So you

608
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 8: want to be as practical as possible, and then you

609
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 8: want to build an emergency find once you've sat down

610
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 8: and said, okay, how am I finances looking and what

611
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 8: are my goals other than also starting the family? What

612
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 8: else is it that I want to achieve done at

613
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 8: also buy a bigger house? What other financial obligations am

614
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 8: I signing up for? So that at least you are

615
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 8: well prepared when the time comes when little one comes home?

616
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: Yeh.

617
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 2: In terms of debt, we over the past couple of

618
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: weeks on the show particularly, we've spoken about the issue

619
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: of debt and you can never get tired of speaking.

620
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 2: It's an evergreen conversation because again South Africans are highly indebted.

621
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: But when you are trying to bring a bundle of

622
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: joy into the picture and you're dealing with debt, how

623
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: do you work that out? What's the best strategy to

624
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: restructuring payments while managing these new family expenses that are

625
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: coming into the fold.

626
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 8: This goes it back again to our personal financial plan

627
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 8: where we sit and say, in the next six months,

628
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 8: how much of my debt can I manage? Or in

629
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 8: terms of what can I quickly pay off? Look at

630
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 8: your interest rates that you're paying and prioritize of the

631
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 8: debt I do have, What can I cut off quickly?

632
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 8: What can I pay off quickly? Or you also look

633
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 8: at the debt that's got the highest interest rate, see

634
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 8: if you can't pay that off quickly? And also how

635
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 8: much are these amounts? How do you structure your current

636
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 8: budget to accommodate the higher payments you've been making to

637
00:31:58,360 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 8: kill that debt quickly?

638
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: See But you've also mentioned medical costs, and I think

639
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: often when we think about bringing new life into the world,

640
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: when we speak about the medical costs, it will be

641
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: for the birthing process, and you know that that period

642
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 2: when you're giving birth, But there's obviously other medical expenses

643
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 2: that must come before and even after.

644
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: There's a lot of options.

645
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: There's medical aid, you've got your gap cover, You've got

646
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: you know, to take care of a host of other

647
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: unexpected medical expenses.

648
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 3: How do you look at that?

649
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 8: I would definitely say that medical costs are a big

650
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 8: component with you are family planning. For example, as you mentioned,

651
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 8: you need to ensure firstly that you're correctly ensured in

652
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 8: terms of the medical aige. You've got what does it cover,

653
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 8: what does not cover and whatever wherever the gaps are,

654
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 8: ensure that you've got a financial product to put that

655
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 8: in place, or you've got financial reserves in the event

656
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 8: that a certain specialist won't be covered by the cover

657
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 8: that you've got, so it's very important to make sure

658
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 8: that you've got adequate cover. And also if you've got

659
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 8: a medical aid, ensure that you've got gap cover that's

660
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 8: going to jump in and pay all the medical costs

661
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 8: that are not going to be paid by your medical aid.

662
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 8: So it's quite important to have the balance and review

663
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 8: your financial products that you've got, including life insurance, to

664
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 8: see what where am I over insured, I am over

665
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 8: ensured potentially, or is the insurance that I have adequate

666
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 8: for my needs and then make the reviews accordingly, because

667
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 8: it's quite important to just make sure that the financial

668
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 8: products that you've got are going to be able to

669
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 8: do their obligations when the time comes. There's nothing that

670
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 8: is as painful as paying for all these products and

671
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 8: then finding out at claim stage that this one won't

672
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 8: pay out when you need it the most. So it's

673
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 8: quite important then to speak to your financial planner to

674
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 8: do a review of the products that you've got and

675
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 8: ensure that they're in line with your goals and needs.

676
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, the medical age choice is quite a tricky one,

677
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: see that, I'd like to think because again there are

678
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 2: expenses and proceed that are covered, specialists that may or

679
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: may not be covered in your medical aid, and often

680
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: the decision to have a child finds you deep within

681
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 2: that choice. I mean you would have already made the

682
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: choice when you joined a particular company, for example, and

683
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,959
Speaker 2: often each company is limited to a certain medical aid,

684
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: maybe one or two choices for staff them. How do

685
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 2: you if you are already part of a particular medical

686
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 2: aid and you find out that they may not cover

687
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: certain specialists, or you know they have preferences in terms of.

688
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 3: Where you go for your GP your.

689
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 9: Option?

690
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 3: Yes, what do you do? Then?

691
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 2: Is it easy to opt out of it and find

692
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: a new one or do you need to be changing plans?

693
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 8: I would say, first find out what you have, and

694
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 8: if you pick up the gaps that you might potentially have,

695
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 8: try and move plans because the other thing you don't

696
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 8: want to do is move between medical aids at a

697
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 8: critical time, because if you if you're move and you

698
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 8: ready have a tradition pregnancy, you might find that they

699
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 8: might give you a three month waiting period on other

700
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 8: medical aid. You don't want to be making big moves

701
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 8: when you already are pregnant. You want to do your

702
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 8: homework prior so you make sure that the medical aid

703
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 8: you are on will meet your need because the lastly

704
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 8: you need those waiting periods or having to disclose other

705
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 8: conditions that now will impact your application you needed. The

706
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 8: most of my advice would be first speak to your

707
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 8: current provider, see now which other plans you can move

708
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 8: to or upgrade to make sure that you're adequately covered,

709
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 8: because you do not want to put yourself at risk

710
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 8: of not being covered.

711
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the other things that we see apologies

712
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: see we're sorry for cutting in there. But one of

713
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: the other things that we see happening around that time is,

714
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: or at least when you're already in the process of

715
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: bringing new life into the world, you'll see many households

716
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 2: moving from two incomes to one, especially during the maternity

717
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: leave period. And again, depending on what your contracts say

718
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: with your particular employer, you may be out of your

719
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 2: monthly salary for two of those four months that you

720
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: take off. Whatever the case may be. It may be temporary,

721
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 2: but some choose a more permanent so you know option

722
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: for that. How do families plan for the transition of

723
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: that financial stress when you move possibly from two incomes

724
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: to one.

725
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 8: I think that goes back to how budget again a

726
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 8: way we have to auso factor in building an emergency fund,

727
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 8: because that is the financial reserves that are going to

728
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 8: help you in those months and especially if you know

729
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 8: you want to have a baby. This is why I

730
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 8: said earlier, it's quite important to start as soon as

731
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 8: possible when you know you want to start the family

732
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 8: planning process to see from my current budget, how much

733
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 8: can I put away towards the score, what to find

734
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 8: out the costs that I involved data, how much am

735
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 8: I going to have to pay for a nanny? All

736
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 8: of those things of cost that one needs to consider.

737
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 8: And going back to the emergency fund, it's which is

738
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 8: one of those things that's going to help you carry

739
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 8: the financial laws so that you don't end up getting

740
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 8: into debt over those months. So also, different employees have

741
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 8: different policies for maternity leave, so it's quite important that

742
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 8: you understand your companies and what you are able to

743
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 8: structure with them. If there's a bit of flexibility for

744
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 8: a third period or if you're claiming for uif it

745
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 8: really will depend on your circumstance, because we do find

746
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 8: there are other companies that are quite gracious and will

747
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 8: pay you a salary during your maternity period, So it

748
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 8: really depends.

749
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, in your experience. What are some of the commonly

750
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 2: underestimated costs of raising a child?

751
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 8: I would most certainly say diapers is the thing. How

752
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 8: many diapers in little one will go through? And also

753
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 8: serial and formula those are little costs and medicines. You know,

754
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 8: there's a lot of depending on also if there are

755
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 8: no complications with your little one. So you just have

756
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 8: to be ready for any financial stock and I think

757
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 8: that's why it's important that when you're also selecting or

758
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 8: taking up in the financial product, that it's going to

759
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 8: also help you safeguard your financial future as you prepare

760
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:16,959
Speaker 8: to have a little one.

761
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, still on the financial product, we spoke about medical aid,

762
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: but there's also the conversation about insurance policies, so your

763
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 2: life cover your disability, income protection for those who do

764
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: have how do you get those in order as well?

765
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 2: Particularly when you're speaking about insurance policy and future planning. Really,

766
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: so it's not just the process of having a child

767
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: now and the costs that you need to cover now,

768
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: so your diapers and your formulas and so on. But

769
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: down the line you're needing to send them to school

770
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 2: in the event of something going wrong at home, god forbid.

771
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: But how do you then get that in order as well?

772
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 8: This also goes back to you having your conversation with

773
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 8: your financial planner. I think it's quite important that wetting

774
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 8: down with the financial plication professional that they are able

775
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 8: to look at your personal circumstance from a three sixty

776
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 8: perspective that loving question, because keeping your life cover and

777
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 8: increasing your life cover, especially if you've got a little one,

778
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 8: it's one of the most important things you need to

779
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 8: consider in the whole process, because if anything happens to you,

780
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 8: you want to be able to make sure that this

781
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 8: little one will be taken care of in the event

782
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 8: that you are not there. And you can also look

783
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 8: at setting up a testamentary trust or whatever kind of

784
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 8: a trust to make sure that those policy proceeds paid

785
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 8: to the trust to make provision for your little one

786
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 8: in the event that you are not there. And those

787
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 8: are the kind of conversations you should be having with

788
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 8: your financial planner when you do have the kind of

789
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 8: a consultation. Also, don't forget the importance of critical illness

790
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 8: and disability cover because life happens when you least expected

791
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 8: and you do not want to be caught of God.

792
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, with that conversation still also include the likes of

793
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: your wills, your estate planning as well.

794
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 8: Absolutely absolutelyoute because remember the conversation around the life cover

795
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 8: has got a component of legacy planning, to say, how

796
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 8: will I structure my financial affairs because remember your child

797
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 8: is also a minor and you want to safeguard you know,

798
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 8: in of the money or legacy you'll be leading behind

799
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 8: for them, So you have to have those structures in

800
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 8: place whilst you're still alive, to make sure that there's

801
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 8: a trust or there's anew there's a pesimentary trust that

802
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 8: you would set up. And then also just want to

803
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 8: make sure all of this alliance in terms of what's

804
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 8: on your will and to make sure that your assets

805
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 8: are distributed in the manner in which you would like

806
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 8: to be each of your untimely death.

807
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've asked this question of a lot of our

808
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: guests as well when it comes to planning for your finances.

809
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: But you've mentioned that you have got to a lot

810
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 2: of what we've spoken about, In fact today goes back

811
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:52,959
Speaker 2: to your personal your your personal finances. You're planning your

812
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 2: your personal budget on your own, in the conversations that

813
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 2: you need to be having with your financial advisor if

814
00:40:58,360 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: you have one.

815
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:00,240
Speaker 3: All.

816
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: But when we speak about babies, that's obviously not the

817
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: only even if it's a new one, it's not the

818
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: only cost that you're having to make provision for. You've

819
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: still got your your ordinary life expenses and the normal

820
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 2: day to day expenses. Your retirement as well still falls

821
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 2: part of the financial planning for your future as well.

822
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 2: Where do you find these resources? If you don't have

823
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 2: the luxury of having a financial planner, how else do

824
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: you make you know, responsible financial decisions taking into account

825
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 2: all that we've spoken about so far.

826
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 8: I love that the Internet is there and it's available

827
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,919
Speaker 8: for everyone. You'd be surprised in terms of at least

828
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 8: how much information you can get just by googly. But

829
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 8: over and above that, it's quite important to listen to

830
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 8: content that educates yourself from a financial standpoint. Say, how

831
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 8: do I equip myself and bridge the gap in terms

832
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 8: of what I don't know, find the ways to see

833
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 8: how else can I educate myself to increase my financial

834
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 8: literacy so that at least if I'm not consulting with

835
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 8: the financial planner, then I am at least empowering myself

836
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 8: to know which direction to take with the information that

837
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 8: you will gather just from a goroople search. But that's

838
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 8: just a starting point. If you're ready, I'd rather you

839
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 8: do that than nothing. And I think again, the conversation

840
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 8: around the timing planning is one that we most times underestimate.

841
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 8: We do find that there are financial products like a

842
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 8: retirement annunity that one can use. However, it's not the

843
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 8: only means of saving towards retirement. Other people use property

844
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 8: and you know it really again goes back to your

845
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 8: risk appetite and also how can you structure your portfolio

846
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 8: to meet your needs and also pater for your retirement needs.

847
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 8: So it's quite important then to in as much as

848
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 8: you can't afford or whatever the personal circumstances, I think

849
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 8: this can't afford a financial planner, consult. Sorry, do your

850
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 8: best to educate yourself, but I would really recommend that

851
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 8: you consult a financial planner. Yeah.

852
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 2: Just lastly, see whe very briefly for new or expecting

853
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 2: parents or somebody who's got it down in their to

854
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: do lists, so to speak, just one big tip from

855
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 2: you about taking control of your money and how they

856
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: can perhaps even get a hold of some of the

857
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: experts at Invelo Wealth.

858
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 8: All right, I think for me what is important is

859
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 8: just have a financial vision for yourself. Even if you

860
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 8: have a twelve month budget to say this for this year,

861
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 8: I see myself achieving these three things. And if it's

862
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 8: financial habits you want to change, it's your favorings that

863
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 8: you want to increase, commit to that, track it monthly

864
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 8: with your budget and stick to those financial goals. So

865
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 8: I will say, start with what you have today. Don't

866
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 8: wait for a time when you say, oh no, when

867
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,959
Speaker 8: I get an annual increase, I will start feeling. Start

868
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 8: where you are today with what you've got. That is

869
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 8: one to take home from me today, and then you

870
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 8: can be out also say it's quite important that you

871
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 8: commit to whatever you've determined for yourself that you want.

872
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 3: To achieve here and getting ahold of them Velo.

873
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 8: And you will find us at info at in Dello World.

874
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 8: We are also on social media Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn

875
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 8: at in Delo World.

876
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 2: See a very big thank you to you for joining

877
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 2: us this evening. That's see Wan Jobo, who's the director

878
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: and wealth manager at Invelo Well speaking to us about

879
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 2: how to plan for a bundle of joy so that

880
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 2: that time doesn't become even more stressful or more stressful

881
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: than it actually should be. A very big thank you

882
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 2: to Siba for joining us this evening at seven o'clock

883
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 2: on the dots, let's get the very latest in your

884
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: EyeT this news.

885
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 5: Relaxed this summer with podcasts from your favorite shows.

886
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: On Primediaflass dot com.

887
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: Six minutes after seven. Just a quick reminder, as you

888
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 2: heard there, anything that you've missed throughout the course of

889
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 2: the show, you're more than welcome to find on Primedia

890
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 2: plus dot com or the Prime Media Plus app. You

891
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: will find all of those conversations ready and waiting for

892
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: you when you have time to, you know, sit and

893
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 2: take out your notebook and take the notes that I've

894
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 2: been making, so when we've had the conversations with our guests,

895
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: all of it will be there for you Primedia plus

896
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 2: dot com or the Primedia plus dot Primedia plus app.

897
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 2: It's the second hour of the show. We've just had

898
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 2: a conversation with financial planner or see about Njoba, who's

899
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: the director and wealth manager at imvel or Wealth, speaking

900
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: to us about financial planning when you are starting the

901
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 2: process of having a family, or you'd like to do

902
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 2: things a little differently when you have your next children

903
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 2: if you already are a parent. And we started out

904
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: that first hour with an economic wrap for twenty twenty

905
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 2: five and the outlook for twenty twenty six with doctor

906
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: Dale McKinley, who's a political economist. I'd also asked a

907
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 2: couple of questions just at the beginning of the show,

908
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 2: and I see some of those who come through on

909
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 2: WhatsApp as well. What I'm looking forward to in twenty

910
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 2: twenty six listening to seven oh two Please and thank you,

911
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: then reading my textbooks, then listening to seven oh two

912
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: Please and thank you, and then reading my textbooks, then

913
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: seven oh two, then textbooks, and so on and so on.

914
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,720
Speaker 2: That's Paul Kotski. A Paul, you didn't say where you're from,

915
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: but that's from Paul. Paul, thank you so much for

916
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 2: sending us that WhatsApp And then we have another one

917
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 2: Highnocana Christmas decorations should ideally be removed on the sixth

918
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 2: of January when the Epiphany ends. That's from Debil, Debil.

919
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 2: If it doesn't follow on a Monday, does that still count.

920
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 2: I prefer my dates to on a Monday, and I

921
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 2: think Monday will be will it'll be the fifth of January,

922
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: but it always has to be on a Monday, so

923
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 2: the sixth. The sixth is Tuesday, yes, so I agree

924
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 2: with you. It should be as early on as possible.

925
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 2: But because the sixth is on a Tuesday, let's make

926
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 2: it the fifth of January. So Deva says, please take

927
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 2: down your Christmas decorations already. I would have said the

928
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 2: thirty first of December, but I'm happy to go with

929
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 2: that as well. And Devil thank you so much for

930
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 2: that WhatsApp text as well, Lisa also saying Christmas decorations

931
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 2: until the end of January, with a couple of question marks.

932
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 2: Surely that's just a reminder of all the things that

933
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: we wasted money on instead of the important things. Actually, Lisa,

934
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 2: you're quite right. So I've already been seeing right on

935
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: time yesterday the conversations on social media about how we

936
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: now need to you know, be making better decisions already.

937
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 2: The struggling and the suffering that we're going to be

938
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 2: going through between now and payday.

939
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 3: Whether it's the.

940
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 2: Fifteenth, the twentieth, the twenty fifth, or the thirty first,

941
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 2: it's a long way from now. The cabbages come out,

942
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 2: you know, the scrambling for the school supplies they start now.

943
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: They started right on time on the first of January.

944
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 2: I do still want to know what you are looking

945
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 2: forward to as we go into the year seven two

946
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 2: seven oh two one seven oh two. That are what's

947
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 2: up line, or you can call us on double one

948
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 2: double eight three o seven two waking.

949
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 4: This talk together every hour every day. This is seven

950
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 4: oh two.

951
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:25,919
Speaker 5: Let's walk the talk.

952
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 2: Part of what you then need to be looking at

953
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 2: as you try to figure out what it is that

954
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 2: you're looking forward to, is also setting the goals and

955
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 2: your intentions for twenty twenty six. A conversation that we

956
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 2: had just before the end of last year, and you know,

957
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 2: there's quite a struggle that holds a lot of people

958
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: back when it comes to what we describe as the

959
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 2: imposter syndrome, and that's a feeling of doubt and not

960
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,919
Speaker 2: feeling good enough. Or feeling like you know, you don't

961
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: belong in a particular place, even when you are capable

962
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 2: and qualified. And I paid that quite nicely with the goals,

963
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 2: because you looking at perhaps your professional plans for the year,

964
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: but you think maybe not or I don't deserve to

965
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 2: be here, or I shouldn't be thinking as big as

966
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 2: I am in my plans. And we've invited Charity Imgurney,

967
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 2: whose clinical psychologist, to help us unpack what that is

968
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: and why it's such a problem and getting around that

969
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: so that you're making the goals, you know, the right goals,

970
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: but also having the positivity and the belief that you

971
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: are enough and will be able to achieve your professional

972
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 2: and personal goals for twenty twenty six. Charity, a very

973
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: good evening, Thank you so much for joining us on

974
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 2: seven not two.

975
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 10: And Kate talk good evening to you and thank you

976
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 10: very much for having me.

977
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: It's an absolute pleasure. How do we understand the impostor syndrome?

978
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 2: What is it and how does it typically show up

979
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 2: in people's thoughts and behavior?

980
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 10: So typically how we find and see the imposter syndrome

981
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 10: is in the self belief, like you mentioned that people

982
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 10: have in their abilities to either exeit due to a

983
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 10: certain task, or to be in a certain place and

984
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 10: a feeling of deservedness to be in that place or

985
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 10: to have achieved something. So often people would have been

986
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 10: in a place and would have achieved a certain thing,

987
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 10: but often feel afraid that there's some sort of fraud

988
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 10: or whatever it is that they've achieved, or whatever it

989
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 10: is that they are is not legitimate because they're not

990
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 10: deserving of being there, either to a lack of confidence

991
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 10: or even a sense or feeling rather a belief that

992
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 10: there is something that is missing, there is something that

993
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 10: is not sufficient in terms of what it is that

994
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,760
Speaker 10: they've achieved or way it is that they are, even

995
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 10: though the evidence and everything that is outside and external

996
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,919
Speaker 10: to them proofs that that is not necessarily true. It's

997
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 10: more about a self belief, and I would say in

998
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 10: self limiting belief and something that someone has about their

999
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 10: abilities even in the absence of a clear evidence of

1000
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 10: that lack of ability.

1001
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: Do we know what drives that sort of self limiting belief?

1002
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 2: Is it past experiences and instances where you thought where

1003
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: you perhaps again thought you weren't good enough to be

1004
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 2: in a particular place, or is it pressures that we

1005
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 2: face in our personal lives and in the workspace.

1006
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 3: Do we know what drives it well?

1007
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 10: It varies from person to person. For some people it

1008
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 10: is precictly what you mentioned based on past experiences and

1009
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 10: a sense of judging from the past and either having

1010
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 10: things that didn't go well or having been rejected in

1011
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 10: certain instances. And I do think that's something that's understated

1012
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 10: and not spoken about nearly enough when it comes to

1013
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 10: the imposter syndrome, is that it's very closely linked to anxiety.

1014
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 10: That a lot of people feel very anxious about doing

1015
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 10: new tasks, things that feel challenging, things that stress them

1016
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 10: or stretch them in a particular way. And that is understandable.

1017
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,919
Speaker 10: Anything that is worth doing, anything that is either new

1018
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 10: or challenging, or that feels worthwhile, is bound to come

1019
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 10: with some degree of anxiousness, anxiety and nervousness. And often

1020
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 10: what then people think and how they translate that sort

1021
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 10: of anxiety and trying a new task, either a new

1022
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 10: job or whatever it is, is that if they are

1023
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 10: qualified to be there, or if they should be in

1024
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 10: a certain position or doing a certain thing, then they

1025
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 10: ought not to feel anxiety, which is a misnomer because

1026
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 10: people then equate a sense and a feeling of anxiety

1027
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:45,359
Speaker 10: to a sense of inadequacy, which is not linked most

1028
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 10: of the time. And so when we look at other

1029
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 10: people who have either done what it is that we're

1030
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 10: aspiring to do or doing, we assume that they have

1031
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 10: a degree of confidence that we don't possess, or rather

1032
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 10: that they don't have a sense of an anxiety or

1033
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 10: struggles with feelings of a lack of confidence, or where

1034
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 10: they don't always feel like we're on top of their game.

1035
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 10: And we then think that our feelings of anxiety or

1036
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 10: of feeling less than the task or not up to

1037
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 10: a certain task or certain thing is something that's wrong,

1038
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 10: and it's something that is not experienced by people that

1039
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 10: we've either seen do the thing or people that will

1040
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 10: look up to. And so that is what oftentimes feels

1041
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 10: the imposter syndrome. It's actually a misreading or rather looking

1042
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 10: at something and not perceiving it in the misperception of

1043
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 10: other people and a comparison with other people, and then

1044
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 10: unfairly judging ourselves to be less than what we aspire

1045
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 10: or the people that we look up to.

1046
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 2: And what do you reckon are the early signs for

1047
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 2: when self doubt has crossed the line from healthy you know,

1048
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: from a healthy reflection of what you think you are

1049
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 2: capable of or not to impost the syndrome way, it

1050
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 2: really starts to hold you back from what you are

1051
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 2: and should be able to achieve.

1052
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 10: I mean, it becomes a vicious cycle. So, like I

1053
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 10: mentioned in the beginning, that imposter syndrome is something that

1054
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 10: is perceived. It's something that someone perceives in their mind

1055
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 10: even though there isn't evidence to prove that their sense

1056
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 10: of inadequacy or a sense of fear that they feel

1057
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 10: are not being up to the task, and often is

1058
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 10: the case, but it's often the case is that it's

1059
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 10: people who already have them a certain achievement or are

1060
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 10: already in a certain position where they feel that they

1061
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 10: already there and then have a sense of I guess

1062
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 10: cold feet to put it quite colloquially, that once that happens,

1063
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 10: the person then feels like this is illegitimate or they

1064
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 10: did not get it in the right way, and a

1065
00:54:55,600 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 10: sense of flutulence, and that feeling is something that is

1066
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 10: to be expected. It is within normal bounds because there

1067
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 10: is a degree of anxiousness and nervousness that we do

1068
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,760
Speaker 10: need in order to take whatever it is that we're doing,

1069
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 10: particularly if it's a big task of challenging task, but

1070
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 10: to take it seriously. Anxiety fuels us to really work

1071
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 10: through it. And where it crosses over from being within

1072
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 10: normal bounds to be something that's problematic is when that

1073
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 10: anxiety and that pressure feels crippling. So even though you

1074
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 10: have the job and you have merit, you have all

1075
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 10: the papers, you've done the interview, and you've been given

1076
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 10: the job fair and square, there is a sense that

1077
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 10: you still feel like you're mess it up in all

1078
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 10: those things that is within normal bounds. But when you

1079
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 10: then start acting according to those self limiting beliefs and

1080
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 10: self sabotaging that not showing up for meetings or not

1081
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 10: asking for help, for instance, with certain chances are challenging.

1082
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 10: It is a vicious cycle of them trying to confer

1083
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 10: what it is that you believe, so confirming those self

1084
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 10: limiting behaviors, that then becomes what we call a self sabotage.

1085
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 10: Because you believe a certain things, then you act in

1086
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 10: accordance to what it is that you and oftentimes then

1087
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 10: what then sheds the light on some of these beliefs

1088
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 10: and diminishes them. Is in having discussions with people and

1089
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 10: I know it's it's overrated, and it feels like it

1090
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 10: goes without saying, but asking for help and recognizing that

1091
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 10: the people that you're looking up to. So, for instance,

1092
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 10: if it's a certain position and you know someone who's

1093
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 10: worked in that position before, or someone who's in a

1094
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 10: similar sort of position, to really speak to them quite candidly,

1095
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 10: honestly and vulnerably about some of your fears and you

1096
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 10: recognize that you're not on your own, that that person

1097
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:58,720
Speaker 10: too had those fears or some of those reservations about

1098
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 10: the very same things that you worry about. So oftentimes

1099
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:06,240
Speaker 10: what fuels the imposter syndrome is a sense of shame,

1100
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 10: So feeling like what it is that you're feeling or

1101
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 10: experiencing is very different and no one else experiences it,

1102
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 10: And then that isolation then fuels these thoughts, and then

1103
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 10: the thoughts then begin to become action, and when you

1104
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 10: act on it, it almost feels like it's a self

1105
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 10: fulfilling prophecy, when in effect it's not based on truth

1106
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 10: or reality.

1107
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what do you need to do? What are

1108
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 2: these practical strategies that you can adopt as a person

1109
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: to manage impost syndrome when it shows up, whether in

1110
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 2: work and your studies and your leadership roles, how do

1111
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 2: you work around it?

1112
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 10: So I think a first practical step to do is

1113
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 10: to write down the things that you have achieved. So

1114
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 10: sometimes our minds will have a narrative and tell out

1115
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 10: certain things, and I often say that we don't have

1116
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 10: to believe everything that our minds and our feelings tell us.

1117
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 10: It can feel certain things, but it does not necessarily

1118
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 10: mean that it's the truth. So the action of actually

1119
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 10: having pen and paper and writing down what is factually true. So,

1120
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 10: for instance, you did receive the degree, whether you feel

1121
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 10: that they'll come and take it back from you or

1122
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 10: whatever the case is, that is a feeling. It's not

1123
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 10: based on fact. So it does help to then list

1124
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 10: all the things that are facts and that holds true

1125
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 10: about the things that you already have achieved, the things

1126
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:43,439
Speaker 10: that you have factually, and then with all of that,

1127
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 10: then follow that up with the thoughts and feelings. We

1128
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 10: label them as thoughts and feelings that you have. So

1129
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,479
Speaker 10: the thought and feeling would be that I wasn't really

1130
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 10: deserving of this promotion, and they will find out in

1131
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 10: this big meeting and they will pull me out of

1132
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 10: this job, and they will see that I'm a thought,

1133
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 10: that's a feeling, that's a thought. It does not hold true.

1134
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 10: And then you go back to the list of the

1135
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 10: things that are factual. You then recognize that you went

1136
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 10: for an interview, for instance, you went through all the tests,

1137
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 10: you went all through the requisite things. Those things are facts.

1138
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 10: You went through all the vettings and all those things,

1139
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 10: and it came up that you were the best candidate

1140
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 10: for the job. For insidance, and then begin to counter

1141
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 10: some of those thoughts and feelings and being able to

1142
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 10: distinguish between things that are facts and things that are feelings.

1143
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 9: And thoughts that you have.

1144
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 10: And I think that if something is quite practical and

1145
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 10: helpful to start doing, then another thing that is helpful,

1146
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 10: like I mentioned in the beginning, is to really speak

1147
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 10: to other people and the vulnerability of addressing some of

1148
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 10: the things and the fears that you have. You'll then

1149
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 10: recognize that you're not the only one, and that there's

1150
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 10: certain thoughts and feelings that hold even for people you

1151
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 10: perceive as being extremely confident or who you feel deserve

1152
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 10: whatever it is that you have more than you and

1153
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 10: people often think that we connect by flexing and showing

1154
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 10: people how great you are. But great connections actually happen

1155
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 10: when we can be vulnerable about certain things, because then

1156
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 10: we recognize that you're not alone. Some of the feelings

1157
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 10: and thoughts are experienced as a human experience by most

1158
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 10: people in your position. And the third one is that

1159
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 10: a fair degree of anxiety is necessary.

1160
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 8: For any new and important task.

1161
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 10: So the presence of feeling anxious or nervous about something

1162
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 10: does not translate to you doing something wrong or there's

1163
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 10: been something wrong. And it is a misnomer that we

1164
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 10: need to live a life that is free of anxiety

1165
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 10: or have an existence that does not have any sort

1166
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 10: of anxiety or anxiousness, because we do need a pat

1167
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 10: degree of stress to be able to take whatever it

1168
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 10: is that we're doing seriously. But it is a problem

1169
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 10: when then that stress of that anxiety becomes stabilitating or

1170
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 10: it cripples you or paralyzes.

1171
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 8: You to not be able to move forward to charity.

1172
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 3: Let's leave it there.

1173
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time this evening, really

1174
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 2: lovely talking to you about imposters syndrome. Of course, that

1175
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 2: will be up on our podcast in just a bit

1176
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 2: that Charity im Gone, who is a clinical psychologist.

1177
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 3: Celebrating summer on seven to and skate Talk. One of

1178
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 3: the other.

1179
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 2: Things that I have on my radar, of course, is

1180
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 2: travel trends for twenty twenty six. My sister was saying

1181
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 2: to me just I think it was yesterday, she was

1182
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 2: asking me where I need to see myself. I had

1183
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 2: a whole long list of places that I'd like to

1184
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 2: see for the year, and I actually wanted to figure

1185
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 2: out if I'm on the right track in terms of

1186
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 2: where i need to be going. So we've asked Opa Vilaini,

1187
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: who's the chairperson of the Southern African Tourism Services Association,

1188
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: to speak to us about the key trends for twenty

1189
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 2: twenty six and how they're evolving from last year. Oper,

1190
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 2: Very goodrieving to you, Thank you so much for holding

1191
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 2: the line.

1192
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 9: Very good even to you to Doctura, and good evening

1193
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:27,919
Speaker 9: to your listiness.

1194
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 2: Talk to me about what the big travel trends are

1195
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 2: for twenty twenty six and how we've seen them change

1196
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:34,439
Speaker 2: from last year.

1197
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 9: I think what we're experiencing in this sector is the

1198
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 9: continuation of the post pandemic with more people wanting to

1199
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 9: spend their time in the outdoors, so that continues to

1200
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,919
Speaker 9: grow in the country. And also what we are now

1201
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 9: seeing is also a trend where it is more younger

1202
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 9: people that are traveled than older people, and largely they

1203
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 9: would want to be going to places where, especially in

1204
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 9: the festive seasons, where there are events where there is

1205
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 9: NightLive and those those are the younger, younger, younger people.

1206
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 9: But also you've got another group of people that wants

1207
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 9: authentic experiences. So wheneness also becomes one of the key

1208
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 9: drivers of chores in these twenty twenty six and twenty

1209
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 9: twenty seven that we're expecting, so people will definitely be

1210
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 9: focusing more on outdoor facilities that offer wellness programs. So

1211
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 9: it's not that becoming like a status, but now it's

1212
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 9: becoming more like a need in many of the travelers

1213
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 9: that we are seeing.

1214
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I assume you by that you mean even

1215
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 2: the priorities are changing in terms of you know, the

1216
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 2: travelers are wanting to see. Does that differ from a

1217
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 2: domestic perspective versus international So when you look at the

1218
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 2: domestic travelers in the locals, do they want the same

1219
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 2: thing as when they are outbound or when we have

1220
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 2: guests from outside that are inbound coming to South Africa.

1221
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 9: I think we almost finding similar patterns. They may not

1222
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 9: be the same, but we are finding similar similar patents

1223
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 9: is that the trends are similar. The domestic market, largely

1224
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 9: in South Africa, is driven by ladies between the age

1225
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 9: of twenty five to day five. So there's almost above

1226
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 9: fifty around fifty eight percent to sixty percent of travelers

1227
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 9: that are females and in traveling groups, you know. So

1228
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 9: we're seeing that that trend and also what we are

1229
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 9: seeing also it's similar. They want adventure, they want to

1230
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 9: go out or they want to hide, and they want

1231
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 9: to go for experiences, you know. So it's no longer

1232
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 9: about if we choose a venue. The first thing that

1233
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:12,760
Speaker 9: they consider is what are we going to do? Then

1234
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 9: accommodation will then follow. But also with accommodation, they are

1235
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 9: looking at experiential accommodation. It's no longer we're going to

1236
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 9: see it in a hotel, but that accommodation that we

1237
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 9: are going to book must be an accommodation that has

1238
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 9: got views, you know, it must be not in the city,

1239
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 9: but it must be somewhere in the in the forest

1240
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 9: and we can wake up in the morning and see

1241
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 9: all these beautiful views around it. So those are the

1242
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 9: trends that we are seeing in the country. And I mean,

1243
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 9: of course the biggest being it must be instagrammable, you know, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah,

1244
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 9: it must be instacramable. So all these facilities that are

1245
01:05:56,560 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 9: instagramable that have got stunning views, I promise you there

1246
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 9: are all fully booked right up until the tune to

1247
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 9: ride this year.

1248
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, boom Alang will always be one of those places

1249
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 2: that's instagrammable, because otherwise they say it never happened. And

1250
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 2: you know a lot about the Bumlanga landscape where also

1251
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 2: people going domestically first and then internationally, we're the big

1252
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 2: places that you can think of the top destinations that

1253
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 2: come to mind for the serous travel.

1254
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 9: I think what we've seen now in the country to

1255
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 9: to you know, the economic pressures that we find ourselves,

1256
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 9: is that many people are now self driving because flights

1257
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 9: are a bit more expensive, although they still fly to

1258
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 9: definitions like k town and those will be your middle

1259
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 9: class and the bid of affluent one, but largely those

1260
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 9: that are under pressure financially they will drive take your

1261
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 9: self drive, but also they will will look at cases

1262
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 9: where it is affordable. You know, if you look at

1263
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 9: Buma Langa Yo Panorama rout is one of the best

1264
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 9: basis with amazing views and it is affordable and you

1265
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 9: are able to visit many viewing points attractions, you know,

1266
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 9: at a very affordable price. And also they will look

1267
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 9: at it using accommodation that is self catering because they

1268
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 9: then are not forced to be eating out, but they

1269
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 9: will then be able to buy their groceries, cook for

1270
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 9: their families, but also have an amazing time at an

1271
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 9: affordable price. So that's basically the trend that we we

1272
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 9: we are seeing domestically because of the economic pressures and

1273
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 9: those that can afford we are seeing well, Dubai being

1274
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 9: one of the most prominent places that the South Africans

1275
01:07:56,080 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 9: especially want to go to. We sing in Bali and

1276
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 9: largely Bally being affordable. Also, people are are looking at

1277
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 9: Bali internationally to go to because they say that it

1278
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 9: has those amazing views that they want, it has amazing cases,

1279
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 9: but also it is affordable in terms of packages and

1280
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 9: that it offers. So those are the trends that we

1281
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:23,680
Speaker 9: see internationally, those the impound travelers, they are still attracted

1282
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 9: to our Safari, you know, those that are coming from

1283
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 9: the Americas, from Europe, they are still the biggest, biggest

1284
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 9: attraction in the country continues to be Safari. And after that,

1285
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 9: of course they will look at destinations like take Town

1286
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 9: and and and and and and and all those other

1287
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 9: areas in the in the Western Cape and caser and

1288
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:51,759
Speaker 9: those are some of the most attractive areas for largely

1289
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 9: the Americas.

1290
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 2: All right, open, let's Levitta, thank you so much for

1291
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 2: your time this evening, just getting you know where perhaps

1292
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 2: you can start if you are still looking for a

1293
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 2: destination for the year, and Malanga is one of those.

1294
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 2: In fact, Katam Kizo, who's the show's producer, was saying

1295
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 2: a little earlier that if there is one place that

1296
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:13,680
Speaker 2: he needs to go and see this year is definitely

1297
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 2: in Boma Langa, particularly for those views that Oprah just

1298
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 2: mentioned now Dubai. If you're going outside Safari, if you're

1299
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 2: coming in to South Africa for the for your holiday

1300
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:28,600
Speaker 2: plans for the year. That's Oprah Milani, who's the chairperson

1301
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 2: of the Southern African Tourism Services Association.

1302
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 1: Relaxed this summer.

1303
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 3: We've podcasts from your favorite shows.

1304
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 1: On Plimedia Plas dot com.

1305
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 2: Twenty five minutes to go to eight o'clock. That means

1306
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 2: we only have a very short time together left on

1307
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 2: the show. You're still on seven oh two in Cape Talk.

1308
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 2: My name is Noo Kayam Dambo. If you've been with

1309
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 2: us since the beginning of the show, thank you so

1310
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 2: much for seeing it through with us. If you've just

1311
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,720
Speaker 2: joined us again, you'll find all of the conversations that

1312
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:06,799
Speaker 2: we've had throughout the show on Primedia plus dot com.

1313
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 2: They will be available there. We had a conversation with

1314
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 2: doctor Dale McKinley at the beginning of the show and

1315
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 2: a political economist speaking about his expectations for the year.

1316
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 2: Always very difficult to forecast exactly what will happen. We

1317
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,679
Speaker 2: were thrown a lot of Trump cards during this year,

1318
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 2: and I don't think a lot of people predicted that

1319
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:28,960
Speaker 2: it would turn out exactly as it did. I mean,

1320
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 2: when we speak of Trump, we know where he stands

1321
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 2: in terms of a lot of his policy, but just

1322
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 2: where it will take you you can never ever fully know.

1323
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 2: But Dale McKinley gave us his thoughts on where we

1324
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 2: will go for the year and how much of an

1325
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 2: impact it had during last year in twenty twenty five,

1326
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 2: since we saw Trump come back into offices, only been

1327
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,680
Speaker 2: a year, can you imagine only been a year, and

1328
01:10:55,720 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 2: the amount of shifts that we've seen, the tectonic shift

1329
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 2: that we've seen in a global landscape in terms of

1330
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 2: relations you know, whether politically when we're speaking about the relationships,

1331
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 2: the bilateral ties, multilateralism, the question of multilateralism and the

1332
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 2: re emergence of unilateralism you know during the Trump presidency,

1333
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 2: and then of course what that's meant for trade relationships

1334
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 2: South Africa, particularly the automotive sector, agriculture being impacted the most.

1335
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 2: A lot of economists will also tell you that it

1336
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 2: hasn't been to the extent that it was initially thought

1337
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:34,840
Speaker 2: it would be, but still quite the impact when we

1338
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 2: speak of tariffs. And then of course, looking at the

1339
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:40,639
Speaker 2: new markets that are available, doctor del mcinlee mentioned China

1340
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 2: is one of those important ones for us, the Asian

1341
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 2: markets really more broadly speaking, quite important when you speak

1342
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 2: of alternative markets. That was the first conversation that we

1343
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 2: had during the show. And then of course we spoke

1344
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:57,639
Speaker 2: about planning ahead for a family if you are thinking

1345
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 2: of having or bringing new life life into the world,

1346
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 2: or you're a first time parents that's already in the

1347
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,800
Speaker 2: process of it, or you are thinking of having another

1348
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:11,559
Speaker 2: bundle of joy, what's that got to costume and how

1349
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:15,320
Speaker 2: you navigate those finances. We spoke to Semnjaba, who's a

1350
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 2: director and wealth manager at imvel Or Wealth. We also

1351
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 2: spoke just at the start of this hour to Charity Gurney,

1352
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 2: who is a clinical psychologist about overcoming impostor syndrome. And

1353
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 2: then now just before we took the Eyewitness News headlines

1354
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 2: speaking about the travel trends for twenty twenty six, I

1355
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:38,760
Speaker 2: was on the mark with just one of those. I said,

1356
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 2: Dubai was on my list for the year. Peter Mashabane,

1357
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:47,640
Speaker 2: who is our TP for the evening says it's superficial,

1358
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:50,680
Speaker 2: but it's still on my list. Please let me know

1359
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 2: where it is that you would like to go for

1360
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 2: the year. Maybe it's domestically Cape tan Bumlanga Kisidaen. Please,

1361
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:59,759
Speaker 2: my province is absolutely stunning. If you have the time

1362
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 2: case it in please go through it as well. Do

1363
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 2: let me know what your plans are for the year

1364
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 2: in terms of travel oh seven to two seven oh

1365
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:12,520
Speaker 2: two one seven two is where you'll find us on WhatsApp.

1366
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:13,760
Speaker 3: You can send us a.

1367
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 2: Text or a voice note. Robbie also saying on WhatsApp,

1368
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 2: Hi guys, Happy New Year. Christmas decorations down on the

1369
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 2: fifth of February on the twelfth day of Christmas. I

1370
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 2: agree with you fully on that one.

1371
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 4: Because this journey is better taken together.

1372
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 3: You walk the Talk two.

1373
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 2: Still walking the Talk as we gear up towards the

1374
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 2: end of the show, we're having a conversation about the

1375
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 2: business of sports. You would have heard throughout the week

1376
01:13:45,080 --> 01:13:48,799
Speaker 2: we've spoken quite a bit about the developments at FCN

1377
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:51,760
Speaker 2: South Africa's play there now that it would be nice

1378
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 2: to understand what happens off the field as well as

1379
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,719
Speaker 2: obviously a really really big business. And when we're speaking

1380
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 2: about your broadcast rights, answorships to tourism, like we had

1381
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 2: that conversation now with OPA Bilin, it just now the

1382
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 2: infrastructure that needs to go in fan engagement and the

1383
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 2: heats and conversations and the debates that we often have

1384
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 2: about the different teams, the moves that we've seen there

1385
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 2: and the big competitions really that shape industries throughout not

1386
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 2: just the sporting industry, but really having an impact on

1387
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 2: a lot of other industries as well. And as we

1388
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 2: look ahead to twenty twenty six, well you know what

1389
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 2: we expect will take part in the year again looking

1390
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 2: at events like your af Khan, the FIFA and other

1391
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 2: local competitions that are on the calendar. We want to

1392
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 2: know you know what that means for sports, the economy,

1393
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 2: for you as fans as well. And to unpack that,

1394
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 2: we have mobbylin Glovill, who's a sports business specialist and

1395
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 2: founder of Cash and Sports joining us on the line.

1396
01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 2: Gobbyl a very good evening. Thank you so much for

1397
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:54,639
Speaker 2: joining us on seven o twin KP talk.

1398
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me and having you.

1399
01:14:58,240 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 3: Happy to you to you.

1400
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:04,840
Speaker 2: Sports is of one very a divisive conversation because often

1401
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 2: we'll disagree on what goes into it, who supports what

1402
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:10,719
Speaker 2: sports bucks you know or chiefs.

1403
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 3: But it's also a very uniting factor.

1404
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 2: Right again, when we speak of national competitions, we all

1405
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 2: get behind the find and be final and so on.

1406
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 2: F KON has been the big talking point of the week,

1407
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:26,599
Speaker 2: but there's a lot more that goes into it. How

1408
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 2: does it impact economies whether locally or internationally as well.

1409
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 2: Speak to me about the contribution there.

1410
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 5: So it impacts economy is in a major way. It's

1411
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 5: difficult in South Africa to measure exactly how much that is.

1412
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 5: We currently in the country don't have what is called

1413
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 5: a sports tracker for the economy, which measures the economic

1414
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:54,559
Speaker 5: impact of sport. But the estimated impact of sport in

1415
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:56,760
Speaker 5: this country in terms of economic values somewhere in the

1416
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 5: region of about fifty billion to to eighty billion Rand.

1417
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 5: It's it's difficult to get to an actual number because

1418
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:08,800
Speaker 5: there's a whole bunch of other factors that you have

1419
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 5: to take into account in terms of the number of

1420
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:15,640
Speaker 5: people employed in the value sector, the stadiums and the

1421
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:19,679
Speaker 5: value of those facilities. The you know when when teams

1422
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 5: go and play matches they have to rent a facility.

1423
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 5: Then there's all of the auxiliary policing and cleaning and

1424
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,640
Speaker 5: all of those services. All of those have to be

1425
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:32,840
Speaker 5: factored into an economic impact number. But we don't quite

1426
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 5: have that in South Africa because we've got a lot

1427
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 5: of gaps in terms of the data inputs that are

1428
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:38,759
Speaker 5: required for us to get.

1429
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:39,479
Speaker 6: To our round number.

1430
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:43,759
Speaker 5: But globally speaking, sport is a massive, you know, player

1431
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:46,760
Speaker 5: in the economy in South Africa. We estimated somewhere in

1432
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:49,719
Speaker 5: the region of about one point two to two percent

1433
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:52,960
Speaker 5: of the economy, but it could be bigger. It could

1434
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 5: be somewhere around three to three to four percent of

1435
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 5: the of the economy of the economy in the country.

1436
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 5: But the problem is that, as I said, we we

1437
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:02,720
Speaker 5: have some big gaps in terms of the measurement at

1438
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 5: the moment y for.

1439
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 2: Countries that do have sports trackers, like you said, now,

1440
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 2: even though South Africa doesn't have one, how do we

1441
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:13,559
Speaker 2: fare against those? Are we more or less on power

1442
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,400
Speaker 2: with the other countries in terms of what they're able

1443
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 2: to generate economically from from a sporting perspective.

1444
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:24,320
Speaker 5: Well, in terms of the African continent, South Africa, Morocco,

1445
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 5: Egypt are the top three countries in terms of economic

1446
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:31,639
Speaker 5: output from from sport.

1447
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 6: Globally, we are very far behind, you know.

1448
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 5: Globally speaking, they have much better energies between sport and

1449
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 5: things such as tourism and infrastructure and so on. You

1450
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:48,799
Speaker 5: have situations, you know in the West where the government

1451
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,559
Speaker 5: gets involved in terms of building infrastructure and they build

1452
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 5: infrastructure around teams and then there's there's there's other infrastructure

1453
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 5: and facilities around the state, infrastructure such that the stadium

1454
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:05,200
Speaker 5: just does doesn't just become a you know, an attraction

1455
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:07,920
Speaker 5: on the weekend or during the week when the team plays.

1456
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:09,720
Speaker 6: It's active throughout.

1457
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 5: The week, you know, and people visit the facility and

1458
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 5: it's not it's not it becomes a hub.

1459
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 6: It becomes an economic hub of its own.

1460
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 5: So we have we have quite a long way to

1461
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:22,240
Speaker 5: go in terms of strengthening that our facilities at the moment,

1462
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 5: not not just in terms of your major sports, but

1463
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:29,479
Speaker 5: even your smallest sports are generally only used around the

1464
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 5: times at which the teams play, but thereafter they become

1465
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 5: almost white elephants. And we've seen that a lot. Unfortunately

1466
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:40,479
Speaker 5: with for example, our twenty ten World Cup stadiums. I

1467
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 5: think only two of the more than thirteen stadiums are

1468
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 5: you know, economically viable in that they're not loss making,

1469
01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 5: they're not supposed to be to be to be revenue

1470
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 5: generating assets, but they could be, you know. So we

1471
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:58,759
Speaker 5: have some challenges, but we're very far behind the West,

1472
01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:02,600
Speaker 5: but we are very competitive on the African continent. But

1473
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 5: we have to continue to to build on that and

1474
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 5: not let others such as Rwanda for example, catch up.

1475
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, just on that point now before I

1476
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 2: move on to the next one. Just about the fact

1477
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:18,639
Speaker 2: that they are more often than not loss making when

1478
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 2: we could perhaps still squeeze out a few more from them.

1479
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:24,639
Speaker 3: What's missing from that equation.

1480
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 5: What's missing is is the economic factors outside of the

1481
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 5: match day experience. These venues are not all multipurpose venues.

1482
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 5: If you look at we spoke, you spoke earlier to

1483
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 5: your home city of Moses my Peta for example. Yeah,

1484
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,160
Speaker 5: Moses my Petter Stadium is the is the host venue

1485
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:48,479
Speaker 5: for AmaZulu Football Club. They are a tenant there. Outside

1486
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:52,639
Speaker 5: of that, there is that there's that bunging experience at

1487
01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:55,800
Speaker 5: the venue, plus then there's the hotels. But what we're

1488
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:59,280
Speaker 5: missing is the other elements to it as well, the

1489
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 5: housing in and around the stadium, the museum type of

1490
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:07,679
Speaker 5: experiences that are such that the facility becomes a day

1491
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:11,760
Speaker 5: to day hub for for experiences. At the moment when

1492
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,679
Speaker 5: people go there, they go there to to watch the match,

1493
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,400
Speaker 5: and sometimes maybe they'll go to the restaurant at the

1494
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 5: bottom floor and maybe might go to the bunging experience

1495
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:24,400
Speaker 5: but outside of that, it's lot. It's you know, it

1496
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:27,320
Speaker 5: needs to be hosting FOLM events and all sorts of

1497
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 5: stuff out an on a daily basis in order for

1498
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,719
Speaker 5: it to be profitable. And that's the same. The best

1499
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 5: scenario for a stadium that's operating quite well is the

1500
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 5: loftiest precinct outthink in Pretoria, where they've turned the entire

1501
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:47,599
Speaker 5: Hatfield and Pretoria CBD area into a hub around the

1502
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 5: facility such that it's always active all the time, and

1503
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 5: that's that's greatly improved the economic value of the of

1504
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 5: the facility.

1505
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:56,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting one.

1506
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 2: Who generally the biggest winners when we speak about sports,

1507
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 2: you know, financially, is it usually the federations?

1508
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 3: Is it the clubs?

1509
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 2: We often see sports players living lavish lives for as

1510
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 2: long as their careers are still active. Is it the

1511
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:16,639
Speaker 2: broadcasters or was it sponsors? Who wins big?

1512
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 5: Definitely not the athletes. People people see the athletes on television,

1513
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 5: but only about maybe three percent of athletes earned top dollars.

1514
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:32,520
Speaker 5: The rest of their athletes are living just above average lifestyles.

1515
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:36,920
Speaker 5: Most athletes careers are quite short. On average, athletes careers

1516
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 5: about eight to nine years that at the high level,

1517
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 5: if you go twelve thirteen, you've got you've had a

1518
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 5: really long career. So definitely not their athletes. The sports

1519
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 5: federations and the broadcasters do make quite a bit of money,

1520
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 5: but then there's you know, there's only there's only so

1521
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 5: much money to go around. So you know, sports seems

1522
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:02,800
Speaker 5: like a glamorous and and very lucrative space to play in.

1523
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 5: But you know, South Africa globally speaking, is quite a

1524
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:09,679
Speaker 5: small country, you know. So the people who do make money,

1525
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:13,200
Speaker 5: I would say, are those who own sports teams and

1526
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 5: some in some instances in the football context, you would

1527
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:20,639
Speaker 5: only be making money if your own case a chis pirates,

1528
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 5: maybe sundowns. The rest of them are loss making. And

1529
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 5: it's the same in your in your in your rugby,

1530
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:28,639
Speaker 5: you know, so if you own a big team, yes,

1531
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 5: and then in terms of the federations that are making money,

1532
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 5: uh and during quite while cricket, South Africa is sitting

1533
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 5: at somewhere around one point eight billion in annual revenue

1534
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 5: at the moment, and there they were the highest for

1535
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:44,040
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four. That was followed by s A rugby

1536
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 5: somewhere at around one point five billion, but they won't

1537
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 5: be somewhere around two billion for twenty twenty five. And

1538
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 5: then and then comes football, where the PSL generates somewhere

1539
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 5: in the region of one point three billion one point

1540
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 5: two billion, and then further down is southa which generates

1541
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 5: somewhere in the region of three hundred million annually. So

1542
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:05,719
Speaker 5: that's kind of a rough picture of where the money

1543
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:07,480
Speaker 5: goes to in terms of our federations.

1544
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 2: And then in terms of sports generally the codes themselves,

1545
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 2: which ones are we expecting for twenty twenty six to

1546
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:17,240
Speaker 2: grow commercially.

1547
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:21,840
Speaker 5: Well. Cricket I think has has the biggest opportunity to

1548
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 5: grow because South Africa will be hosting the World Cup

1549
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:27,000
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty seven. There will be a lot of

1550
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:30,639
Speaker 5: planning and economic input and funding that will be coming

1551
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:34,840
Speaker 5: from both the International Cricket Council in twenty twenty five

1552
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:38,120
Speaker 5: twenty twenty six as well as governments as well will

1553
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:41,840
Speaker 5: put some money aside towards that, you know, the infrastructure

1554
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 5: and all of the work that needs to go towards

1555
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 5: hosting a World Cup. That World Cup is in twenty

1556
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 5: twenty seven, but all the preparations have already begun and

1557
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:51,840
Speaker 5: there will be a lot of money coming into the

1558
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 5: sport to you know, with that in mind, you know

1559
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 5: rugby as well is is doing quite well, but I

1560
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,840
Speaker 5: think football is set to grow quite quite a lot.

1561
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:05,879
Speaker 5: Because of the World Cup. You would have already started

1562
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:09,559
Speaker 5: seeing that. There's there's brands that have not played in

1563
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:12,720
Speaker 5: the football space at all who have started either advertising

1564
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:15,080
Speaker 5: or starting to try and get into the football space.

1565
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 5: So both Bafana Bafana as well as our domestic football

1566
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:21,599
Speaker 5: teams I think will be will hopefully be in for

1567
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 5: for more commercial support. And then in terms of your

1568
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 5: smaller sports, that's this is always where the challenges are.

1569
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 5: Your smaller niche sports. You're cycling and your tennis and

1570
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:38,160
Speaker 5: your neftball and so on are all struggling, and they

1571
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:42,000
Speaker 5: will all be hoping to try and you know, you know,

1572
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 5: get a little bit of the of the scraps unfortunately,

1573
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:48,720
Speaker 5: because unfortunately there isn't really much going on in terms

1574
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 5: of all of those individual sports. Our next major Olympics

1575
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:54,639
Speaker 5: is in twenty twenty eight, so only then do they

1576
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 5: really start to pick up again. But then there's all

1577
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:01,839
Speaker 5: obviously like world athletics, you know, world relays, athletics, relays,

1578
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:04,240
Speaker 5: and I think that will be happening in Botswana next year.

1579
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 5: So athletics might have a little bit of a pickup

1580
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 5: because of our neighbors, but not really in terms of

1581
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:14,280
Speaker 5: all of your others mayors, you know, your other smaller sports. Yeah,

1582
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:17,160
Speaker 5: but then again, I forget there is live golf which

1583
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 5: has coming to South Africa in twenty twenty six, and

1584
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,840
Speaker 5: that's the one exception. But then again live golf is

1585
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:25,640
Speaker 5: really only a weekend of sport. But there will be

1586
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:27,360
Speaker 5: a little bit of an uptake in terms of the

1587
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 5: investment in golf as well because of that.

1588
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1589
01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:35,400
Speaker 2: Is government able to assist in terms of generating not

1590
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 2: just more interest, but you know, making some of these

1591
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:42,280
Speaker 2: other smaller niche sporting codes more commercially viable as well?

1592
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 2: Or is it sports dependent What needs to happen and

1593
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 2: what sort of talks and what tables need to happen

1594
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,479
Speaker 2: to make sure that even the other smaller niche sporting

1595
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:56,080
Speaker 2: codes also come into the fold and they become more viable.

1596
01:25:56,120 --> 01:26:01,640
Speaker 5: Really, yeah, that's very challenging. The challenge for government is

1597
01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 5: that generally speaking, government shouldn't be involved in the day

1598
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:09,280
Speaker 5: to day running of sport. Government should set policy that

1599
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,960
Speaker 5: enables sport to function. But then all of our sporting

1600
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:17,160
Speaker 5: bodies and federations have independence uh and independent boards and

1601
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:20,519
Speaker 5: federations that run those sports. That's that's that's that's how

1602
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:23,559
Speaker 5: it works. So they generally can't get involved in terms

1603
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:27,599
Speaker 5: of making the sports more viable. They can get involved

1604
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:31,960
Speaker 5: in terms of support and and things such as infrastructure

1605
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:35,080
Speaker 5: and so on. Our big challenge for most of our

1606
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:37,760
Speaker 5: smaller sports, you look at things like swimming et cetera,

1607
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 5: et cetera, is we don't have enough public swimming pools,

1608
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:44,040
Speaker 5: for example, that get kids wanting to go and and

1609
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:47,400
Speaker 5: and and and safe areas for people to participate. Because

1610
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 5: the more people participate in sports, the more they have

1611
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 5: an interest in sport and they.

1612
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:54,160
Speaker 6: And therefore the more they would engage with that sport.

1613
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 5: So everybody would know if you started playing sport when

1614
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:02,080
Speaker 5: you were a child, generally speaking, whatever sports, that is,

1615
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 5: if you then are able to access it at a

1616
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:09,200
Speaker 5: later stage in life. Look at anybody who supports football.

1617
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 5: All of those kids, all of those guys who support

1618
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:14,280
Speaker 5: football probably played at some point in their lives when

1619
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,360
Speaker 5: they were younger. If they're not able to participate and

1620
01:27:17,439 --> 01:27:20,639
Speaker 5: there's no infrastructure, this is netball, athletics, swimming, et cetera,

1621
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:23,799
Speaker 5: whatever you name it. If there's no infrastructure, it's difficult

1622
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:27,400
Speaker 5: to get fans and therefore get people to actively engage

1623
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:29,640
Speaker 5: in those sports. So that's number one. And then the

1624
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:32,439
Speaker 5: second part is the visibility element. And I know that

1625
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:34,840
Speaker 5: the Minister of Sports, Arts and Culture has been very

1626
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:38,680
Speaker 5: you know, you know, he's raised his voice quite a

1627
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:43,040
Speaker 5: bit around the visibility of sports on national television s ABC.

1628
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 5: It's very difficult for people to engage with sport when

1629
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:49,280
Speaker 5: it's behind a pay a warm and a lot of

1630
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:52,240
Speaker 5: people can't afford to pay the you know, d STV.

1631
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:52,840
Speaker 6: Prices, et cetera.

1632
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 5: So again, visibility is another one. So whether it's whether

1633
01:27:56,400 --> 01:28:00,120
Speaker 5: it's pushing for more access to to you know, to

1634
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:03,040
Speaker 5: viewership of sports, et cetera, that that's another one that

1635
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 5: would assist. But a lot of the work has to

1636
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:09,120
Speaker 5: be done by the federations themselves in terms of marketing

1637
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:12,799
Speaker 5: and speaking about themselves and getting people to be interested

1638
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:14,680
Speaker 5: in the sports themselves.

1639
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've raised something quite interesting there when it comes

1640
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:21,640
Speaker 2: to the exclusive sport rights and the conundrum around that

1641
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,760
Speaker 2: and the affordability and the access multi choices often had

1642
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 2: a monopoly in that aspect supersports specifically and a Multi Choice.

1643
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:32,560
Speaker 3: What does that look like it.

1644
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 2: Can we expect to see a shift in ownership rights

1645
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 2: and the broadcasting rights. I mean we see them quite

1646
01:28:40,400 --> 01:28:43,160
Speaker 2: often when we have the bigger competitions coming up and

1647
01:28:43,240 --> 01:28:45,559
Speaker 2: there's a last minute and eleventh hour deals that are

1648
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 2: struck either between Multi Choice and the s ABC. Can

1649
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:51,760
Speaker 2: we can we expect to see in the next year

1650
01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:55,599
Speaker 2: or so that starting to change with more accessibility more

1651
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:57,720
Speaker 2: often for the sport inclodes.

1652
01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:01,439
Speaker 5: Well in terms of of the looking glass. There's a

1653
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:03,639
Speaker 5: few things that I expect to happen in twenty twenty six.

1654
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:06,760
Speaker 5: The one is that I think they will be more

1655
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 5: free to air rights which are bought because the rights holders,

1656
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:13,920
Speaker 5: which is the sports teams and federations, know that there's

1657
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:16,840
Speaker 5: a balance that they have to make. They need more

1658
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:19,439
Speaker 5: people to watch their sport and the only way that

1659
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:22,080
Speaker 5: you can do that is going the free to air roots,

1660
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 5: which is their SABC. So more of them might, I think,

1661
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:28,800
Speaker 5: will start going that route and having more of their

1662
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:31,880
Speaker 5: games available on the SABC. Cricket has done it just

1663
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:34,840
Speaker 5: recently where they signed in agreement with the SABC for

1664
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:40,040
Speaker 5: the women's domestic or incoming cricket matches, and I think

1665
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 5: that they will probably sign a deal for the Cricket

1666
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 5: World Cup matches to also be broadcast on the SABC

1667
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 5: because it's a domestic World Cup. The other one that

1668
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:53,360
Speaker 5: I think will happened will start happening in twenty twenty

1669
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:56,559
Speaker 5: six as well, is that the issue around the sports

1670
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:59,720
Speaker 5: betting income. And this is a straying a little bit

1671
01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:03,200
Speaker 5: a whay from the broadcast side, but I think it's important.

1672
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 5: The broadcast and the sports betting income that's coming into

1673
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:11,559
Speaker 5: the country I think is too is too high in

1674
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 5: terms of the visibility of it, the exposure of young

1675
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:19,720
Speaker 5: persons and the general public to it. There's been a

1676
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 5: big outcrier I'm sure you would have seen throughout the

1677
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:24,840
Speaker 5: second half of last year, and I think it will

1678
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:27,599
Speaker 5: come to bear in twenty twenty six where the government

1679
01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 5: will start putting in measures in place in terms of

1680
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:33,720
Speaker 5: limiting that exposure. And what that will force is that

1681
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 5: there will be less money in terms of sponsorship income

1682
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:40,479
Speaker 5: coming to the federations and teams. Now, whether that then

1683
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:44,080
Speaker 5: forces them to then make other decisions in terms of

1684
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:48,600
Speaker 5: where the because the broadcast question has to has to

1685
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:50,679
Speaker 5: do with the fact that most of our sports teams

1686
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:54,200
Speaker 5: want the sports content to be broadcast on supersports because

1687
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 5: when Supersports or the STV.

1688
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:58,160
Speaker 6: Has exclusivity, they pay more money.

1689
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 5: When there is no exclusive and the sport can live

1690
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:04,080
Speaker 5: on both channels, they get less money. But you know,

1691
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 5: and it makes it a little bit more difficult. So

1692
01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 5: it could affect the broadcast question whether there's more money

1693
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 5: from the from the gambling side, because the gambling side

1694
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 5: has supported a lot of sport, so they live hand

1695
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:18,519
Speaker 5: in hand and this ecosystem has to be balanced in

1696
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:19,679
Speaker 5: some way shape or formed.

1697
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:23,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just lastly, webi late in terms of the

1698
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:27,120
Speaker 2: sports fans themselves, what are some of the surprises that

1699
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:30,519
Speaker 2: they can look forward to this year? I mean, we've

1700
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:33,559
Speaker 2: already spoken about the big competitions that are coming up.

1701
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:38,120
Speaker 2: F Con is one of them currently already underway. What

1702
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:40,519
Speaker 2: are the big surprises that they can you know, look

1703
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:44,160
Speaker 2: forward to in terms of their engagement as well domestically

1704
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:45,160
Speaker 2: and internationally.

1705
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the one issue that a lot of

1706
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:51,280
Speaker 5: fans will not be looking forward to is this issue

1707
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:54,840
Speaker 5: around how long they'll be able to watch all the

1708
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:59,479
Speaker 5: sport that they can on MARKETI Choice and GSTV because

1709
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:03,120
Speaker 5: they will be other competitions that will other competitions that

1710
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:06,639
Speaker 5: will come and challenge that. So one way you're going

1711
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:08,200
Speaker 5: to be able to watch the sports, if going to

1712
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:10,640
Speaker 5: start is going to start getting more challenging. I'm not

1713
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:13,679
Speaker 5: saying it will it will all end in twenty twenty six,

1714
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 5: but we've already started seeing the foods of that. Number two,

1715
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:22,200
Speaker 5: South Africa has become a hub in terms of talent,

1716
01:32:22,439 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 5: in terms of in the football space specifically where we're

1717
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:25,479
Speaker 5: starting to.

1718
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:26,839
Speaker 6: Export more and more players.

1719
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:29,640
Speaker 5: You would have seen them because Ambogazi going to to

1720
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:35,520
Speaker 5: Chicago Fire, you'd have seen or are going to to

1721
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:38,839
Speaker 5: to our etified in the in the UAE. I wouldn't

1722
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:41,120
Speaker 5: be surprised if there's more and more of them, especially

1723
01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:43,519
Speaker 5: because of the A content, especially because of the World Cup.

1724
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:45,800
Speaker 5: So there's a lot of buzz around football.

1725
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:45,920
Speaker 6: At the moment.

1726
01:32:45,960 --> 01:32:48,280
Speaker 5: So that's that's another thing that we should expect. And

1727
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 5: then also let's not forget the merchandise wars that are

1728
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:55,719
Speaker 5: going on right now with Gussie flavor and Old School

1729
01:32:56,360 --> 01:32:59,880
Speaker 5: and and the like. All of that I think will accelerate.

1730
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:02,759
Speaker 5: But I foresee that there's going to be some questions

1731
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 5: asked around way to draw the line between your your

1732
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:10,760
Speaker 5: kit manufacturing deal as a sports team and what the

1733
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:13,320
Speaker 5: fans want in terms of new merchandise and so.

1734
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:13,760
Speaker 6: On and on.

1735
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 5: So that's Debarcle is going to be quite interesting, and

1736
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:20,640
Speaker 5: I think the fans will benefit from from more competition

1737
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:23,280
Speaker 5: because hopefully the prices will come down because they're quite

1738
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:25,320
Speaker 5: high at the moment, but I think it will. It

1739
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 5: will make things quite interesting. And then obviously, lastly, I

1740
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:32,839
Speaker 5: think that you know your your your major sporting codes,

1741
01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:35,479
Speaker 5: your rugby and your cricket and so on and so on.

1742
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:40,520
Speaker 5: I think they will be there will be pushes towards

1743
01:33:40,760 --> 01:33:44,639
Speaker 5: more especially in the rugby space. I wouldn't be surprised

1744
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:48,120
Speaker 5: if there is a war on more competition because at

1745
01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:50,760
Speaker 5: the moment we've got the incoming New Zealand Tour that's

1746
01:33:50,760 --> 01:33:51,800
Speaker 5: going to start next year.

1747
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:53,240
Speaker 6: But they've been.

1748
01:33:53,080 --> 01:33:56,760
Speaker 5: Pushes for for for breakaway league and rugby, a breakaway

1749
01:33:56,840 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 5: league and cricket et cetera, et cetera, that it's just

1750
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:03,639
Speaker 5: too many players not playing on a week by week

1751
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:06,280
Speaker 5: basis and the other competitions are starting to die, like

1752
01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:08,960
Speaker 5: the Curry Cup ands on. They're starting to struggle, so

1753
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 5: I think rugby needs to try and do something to

1754
01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:14,720
Speaker 5: kind of revitalize the domestic competition. Otherwise it's all going

1755
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:16,800
Speaker 5: to be about the spring box, and the same for

1756
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:18,719
Speaker 5: cricket as well.

1757
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:20,519
Speaker 2: BILLI Lateslei, but there. Thank you so much for joining

1758
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:24,639
Speaker 2: us this evening. Really insightful. That conversation with Robilin Glorvo,

1759
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:27,919
Speaker 2: who's a sports business specialist and founder of Cash and Sports,

1760
01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:31,960
Speaker 2: speaking to us about the business of sports, a lovely conversation.

1761
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:36,520
Speaker 2: It will be podcast in just a bit, a lucrative business.

1762
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:40,280
Speaker 2: It still will continue to be, particularly this year. Unfortunately,

1763
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:43,439
Speaker 2: that's all we have time for this evening. Thank you

1764
01:34:43,479 --> 01:34:45,880
Speaker 2: so much for taking the time to engage with us,

1765
01:34:46,280 --> 01:34:49,439
Speaker 2: to listen to us, you know, and to continue being

1766
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:51,679
Speaker 2: a part of the seven to two family.

1767
01:34:51,720 --> 01:34:51,960
Speaker 3: Again.

1768
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 2: We go back to regular programming as far as the

1769
01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:59,360
Speaker 2: show goes next week Monday. Thank you so much for

1770
01:34:59,439 --> 01:35:03,080
Speaker 2: allowing me to keep you company throughout the festive season.

1771
01:35:03,160 --> 01:35:05,800
Speaker 2: It's been fantastic. My name is Nogo Kayem Dambo. It's

1772
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:09,760
Speaker 2: eight o'clock just after the Eyewitness News Sia Mota will

1773
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:12,760
Speaker 2: keep you company on the Aubrey mass Angle Show, good Night,