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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk at all.

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Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

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Speaker 3: by ABS of Corporate and Investment Banking, a Pan African

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Speaker 3: bank that's invested in your story because your story matter

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Speaker 3: is eight minutes after six. Good evening to you. Welcome

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Speaker 3: to the Money Show. I'm Stephen Crutis Gold again. The

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Speaker 3: big story events in the US, developments in the United

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Speaker 3: States again, the big story weakening the dollar. Of course,

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Speaker 3: we expect that decision by the US Federal Reserve tonight

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Speaker 3: and all of that having a big impact on us.

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Speaker 3: I have to say that the first of the retail

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Speaker 3: numbers coming through in Mister Price, they seem to be

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Speaker 3: quite chuffed with their numbers. Certainly, it seems out performing

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Speaker 3: the market, and that certainly would be quite important. And

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Speaker 3: this gives us the first indication really of what was

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Speaker 3: going on in the December period. We'll get more on

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Speaker 3: that with our market commentary with Chris Stewart in a

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Speaker 3: few moments. Looking forward to that conversation. Actually, there's really

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Speaker 3: quite a lot to get through. For the first time,

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Speaker 3: we're beginning to hear rumblings that government is going to

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Speaker 3: act and do something against the huge number of Chinese

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Speaker 3: and Indian imported cars that we're seeing on our roads. Now,

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Speaker 3: this goes in many directions. If you do impose tariffs, yes,

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Speaker 3: you might protect your car industry, would protect jobs. That's

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Speaker 3: a good thing. You also make cars more expensive. You

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Speaker 3: might be running a business, you need a car for

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Speaker 3: your business. Suddenly that cost goes up. So what is

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Speaker 3: the right thing to do? Lots of different ways to

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Speaker 3: look at that conversation. We'll hear from Aya bangakahere, the

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Speaker 3: Chief commission at the International Trade Deministration Commission, in a

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Speaker 3: moment about that. We hear also from Renee Mutilal, the

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Speaker 3: CEO of the National Association of Automotive Components and Allied

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Speaker 3: Manufacturers about that issue, I think is a very important issue.

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Speaker 3: Also at around six forty or so, we will talk

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Speaker 3: about the the erodes, the roads, the Richards Bay coal terminal.

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Speaker 3: They've hit a four year high. Now this is a

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Speaker 3: story with lots of different parts. It's not just about

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Speaker 3: the terminal. It's about the amount of coal flowing to

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Speaker 3: the terminal, which is about the number of trains that

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Speaker 3: TRANSNT is actually able to operate there, and that's what's

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Speaker 3: rarely changed is that they seem to be big improvements.

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Speaker 3: They're very important. Story more coming through as well about

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Speaker 3: the launch of the African Ratings Agency. We'll speak to

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Speaker 3: doctor s Viso Falala about that. I think that's going

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Speaker 3: to be an important conversation and before seven o'clock as well,

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Speaker 3: at least career she's an independent economist. Later salary data

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Speaker 3: suggesting that in fact things are looking at this year

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Speaker 3: and you should feel that you're going to get more

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Speaker 3: money in your pocket. On the issue around the Chinese

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Speaker 3: and Indian cars, would you like the prices to be

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Speaker 3: increased through tariffs to try and protect our jobs, particularly

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Speaker 3: in the Eastern Cape and the Victoria area, or do

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Speaker 3: you actually just think, well, we need to keep cars

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Speaker 3: as cheap as possible because of the benefit they give

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Speaker 3: to our economy. Your thoughts O double one double A

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Speaker 3: three oh seven O two two one four four six

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Speaker 3: five six seven and of course voice notes this evening

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Speaker 3: on seven two seven oh two one seven oh two

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Speaker 3: eleven minutes after.

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Speaker 1: Six The Lonely Show with Stephen Kruders live on ninety

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Speaker 1: two point seven and one six FM, streaming on the

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Speaker 1: Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 2: NAP and DStv channel eight five six. Well.

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Speaker 3: Parliament now being told Government is looking at bringing in

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Speaker 3: some kind of tariff to protect our car industry from

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Speaker 3: cheaper Chinese and Indian models and the car the National

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Speaker 3: Association of Automotive Components and Allied Manufacturers saying Government needs

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Speaker 3: to intervene urgently. We'll hear from them in a moment,

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Speaker 3: but first, Aya Bonkakawe is the commissioner at the International

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Speaker 3: Trade Administration. I asked him about an hour ago what

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Speaker 3: kind of tariffs are available for us to impose on

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Speaker 3: cheaper cars.

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Speaker 4: Good evening to you, Stephen, and to your listeners, and

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Speaker 4: thank you so so much for.

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Speaker 5: Having us tonight.

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Speaker 4: Always a pleasure catching up with you. And I think

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Speaker 4: a very good question there. What is the nature of

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Speaker 4: food that we have at our disposal to respond.

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Speaker 5: To the very varied forms of I.

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Speaker 4: Guess import competition. And I think the answer to that

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Speaker 4: would be determined by the extent and the nature of

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Speaker 4: the Hahn. Maybe if I may start, Stephen at just

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Speaker 4: a typical kind of general tariff, which is just the

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Speaker 4: import tax that one would see in the tariff schedule.

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Speaker 4: We had indicated to Parliament last night that in so

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Speaker 4: far as the concession South Africa signed on too in

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Speaker 4: the nineteen nineties to join the wto that South Africa

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Speaker 4: four fully built up passenger vehicles is able to place

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Speaker 4: its general customs duties the feeling days around fifty percent

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Speaker 4: what is called the boundarrate in trade talk. At the moment,

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Speaker 4: those duties are twenty five percent. If we go to

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Speaker 4: parts and accessories of vehicles which we also import at

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Speaker 4: the moment, those duties, depending on where the import he

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Speaker 4: is coming from, are anywhere between eighteen percent and twenty percent,

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Speaker 4: and so the bound rate in that instance is thirty percent.

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Speaker 4: So in both instances, whether it's the fully built up

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Speaker 4: vehicle or even the powers, you do have some policy

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Speaker 4: space to raise duties, and I think much of the

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Speaker 4: discourse has said we are already wanting to raise duties,

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Speaker 4: not at all. There's no investigation we are seized with

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Speaker 4: at the moment that is looking into this. But as

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Speaker 4: part of the discussion within the Automaster plan, it is

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Speaker 4: to say with that policy room that we have to

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Speaker 4: either increase terriffs on the balance of evidence. That is

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Speaker 4: one of the matters of a tax nature that is

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Speaker 4: on the table. The other forms of tools, Stephen by

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Speaker 4: way of duties we could consider is where there are

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Speaker 4: instances of unfair pricing that would be dumping. And also

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Speaker 4: in instances where you've got a deluge or a sudden

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Speaker 4: kind of a flurry of volumes of vehicles coming into

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Speaker 4: the country where a safeguard measure might be warranted. And

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Speaker 4: I think these three tools, an amendment to the general

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Speaker 4: customs duty, an anti dumping duty, or for a safeguard

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Speaker 4: do seem at the stage to be the tool that

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Speaker 4: we could marshal word these necessary. And of course that

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Speaker 4: is on the basis of the balance of evidence and

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Speaker 4: the balance of understanding what is the extent of injury,

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Speaker 4: if any and that is posed by some of these imports.

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Speaker 3: I would a dumping case be quite difficult to make.

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Speaker 3: And let me just explain this. We drive on the

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Speaker 3: left hand side of the road, China drives on the

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Speaker 3: right hand side. That means any of the cars they

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Speaker 3: sell here are designed for export. It also means that

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Speaker 3: they're able to make cars for a particular price and

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Speaker 3: sell them in our market and make a profit. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if there's a dumping case, and as you

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Speaker 3: know better than I do, they're exporting. I think it's

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Speaker 3: six million cars this year. We're not all coming here,

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Speaker 3: they're going around the world, and clearly someone's making money.

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Speaker 4: Well, Steve, I think a dumping case in the case

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Speaker 4: of China would be more difficult to prove for a

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Speaker 4: related reasons to the ones you've mentioned. I mean, whether

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Speaker 4: it is kind of left hand drive, right hand drive

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Speaker 4: or not. You do have a commonality of models that

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Speaker 4: one finds on Chinese roads that you also find here

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Speaker 4: in South Africa. But really the nub of the issue

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Speaker 4: on the dumping that would make the case difficult is

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Speaker 4: the extent of price depression in the automotive sector that

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Speaker 4: you've seen in China. The listener must recall that for dumping,

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Speaker 4: you need to prove that the price at which a

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Speaker 4: car is sold in China is much much higher than

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Speaker 4: the prices that that same car would be sold in

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Speaker 4: South Africa. That is highly unlikely if one looks at

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Speaker 4: the price war, the cut throat, a price competition, or

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Speaker 4: what the Chinese authorities are calling involution in the Chinese market, where,

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Speaker 4: for instance, an eves you've got about one hundred and

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Speaker 4: thirty or so auto manufacturers that are all clamoring and

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Speaker 4: competing for space, so that I think at a cursory

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Speaker 4: level would be much more difficult to prove than, say,

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Speaker 4: for instance, of safeguard, where I think it's quite clear

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Speaker 4: that the volumes you've seen coming in to South Africa

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Speaker 4: over the last while have really grown in spectacular fashion.

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Speaker 3: They're the chief commissioner at the International Trade and Administration Commission,

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Speaker 3: I tach well listening to that is Renee Mutilau. She

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Speaker 3: is the CEO of the National Association of Automotive Components

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Speaker 3: and Allied Manufacturers. Renee, good evening to you. Tariffs is

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Speaker 3: one solution, but is that going to be enough even

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Speaker 3: if government is able to bring tariffs against these cars?

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Speaker 6: Stephen, thanks for having me really interesting topic and of

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Speaker 6: course one that's extremely crucially in our industrial economy right now.

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Speaker 6: CAROLS is one of those issues that ourselves as the

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Speaker 6: component manufacturing sectors and I know definitely the vehicle manufacturing

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Speaker 6: or ems in South Africa are looking towards to give

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Speaker 6: some stability to the domestic market. There are other measures

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Speaker 6: that we believe can drive greater localization, greater economic opportunities

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Speaker 6: in the value chain, and that includes some level of

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Speaker 6: recalibration on how the APDP incentive program works, and also

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Speaker 6: greater coordination of purchasing opportunities across the supplier base. So

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Speaker 6: there's a range of industrial policy measures that we're looking at,

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Speaker 6: but I do think some level of intervention to regain

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Speaker 6: share of locally produced vehicles in the domestic market is

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Speaker 6: definitely a high priority.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it is going to come at the cost

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Speaker 3: of higher vehicles, and there is surely an economic argument

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Speaker 3: to say that the more cheap cars and s are

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Speaker 3: that forgether better.

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Speaker 6: There is that argument, but it's a little more nuanced

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Speaker 6: than that. And I'm going to start off by kind

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Speaker 6: of making the statement that as a country, with our

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Speaker 6: economic policies, we can't be half pregnant. We have for

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Speaker 6: a long time run an industrial policy to support automotive manufacturing,

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Speaker 6: and that has been anchored by running a tariff and

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Speaker 6: having OEMs produce vehicles in the country and earn a

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Speaker 6: set of duty rebates which allows them to offset those

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Speaker 6: tariffs for product coming in.

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Speaker 7: The situation that we.

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Speaker 6: Find ourselves sea stood right now is that for a

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Speaker 6: long time, the level of credit rebates that the domestic

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Speaker 6: OEMs have been earning have been selfless to their own

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Speaker 6: important needs, and these find their ways or find their

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Speaker 6: way through a trading mechanism to independent importers, including the

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Speaker 6: preforma of brands that we've seen coming to the market

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Speaker 6: over the last decade, which is, you know, you've got

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Speaker 6: great choice as a South African consumer, but we knocking

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Speaker 6: up job losses eavery few months, to the extent that

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Speaker 6: in the components space, we've closed thirteen plants over the

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Speaker 6: last two years and I'm away of another two coming up.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, I mean, the issue of consumer choice versus

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Speaker 6: domestic production is one that economies look at all over

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Speaker 6: the world. I am my organization are from advocates of

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Speaker 6: local industrialization for all the benefits it brings, and would

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Speaker 6: rotch much other choose from five less importainment systems and

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Speaker 6: have a few thousand more.

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Speaker 3: Jobs, No sure. At the same time, electric cars werether

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Speaker 3: made here or made somewhere else again to come in

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Speaker 3: and that they require, as I understand it, fewer, less

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Speaker 3: servicing and fewer spares. Your industry is about to change

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Speaker 3: entirely and it maybe we can raise tariffs on these

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Speaker 3: cars or do all sorts of other things, but I

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Speaker 3: fear rene We're going to lose jobs in the components

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Speaker 3: space no matter what.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, we've been losing it already and we'd

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Speaker 6: only have electric vehicle production here in South Africa as

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Speaker 6: we speak. I do think we do have a reasonable

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Speaker 6: strategy on how to transition the local sector into various

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Speaker 6: elements of electric vehicle production and don't want to be

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Speaker 6: stuck on the battery only discussion. There's opportunities in some

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Speaker 6: of the high voltage components linked to electric vehicles, some

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Speaker 6: of the hydrid production possibilities in the hydrogen space, so

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Speaker 6: there's different opportunities. I think the quicker we get into

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Speaker 6: a space where we stabilize the domestic manufacturing value chain,

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Speaker 6: we ensure that we're not losing suppliers at the same

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Speaker 6: time we're looking to transition into technologies. We should be

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Speaker 6: able to take advantage of whatever the technology is. Interestingly,

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Speaker 6: the incentive mechanism in South Africa is technology neutral. What

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Speaker 6: is effectively needed for a greater transition to EV is

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Speaker 6: some level of consumer support and to create the domestic

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Speaker 6: EV ecosystem that allows manufacturers to bully level of a

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Speaker 6: product for those technologies.

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Speaker 3: There's so many different things happening all at the same

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Speaker 3: time in your industry, and obviously agility is a big thing.

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Speaker 3: Government needs to be involved in that, and clearly from

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Speaker 3: the previous conversation that's happening. I would like to presume

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Speaker 3: that there are people in your industry who are planning

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Speaker 3: for this and moving really very quickly.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think so. It's not a new topic. I mean,

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Speaker 6: if you're talking specifically about electric vehicle production from an

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Speaker 6: industrial policy space, it's something we've been talking about for

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Speaker 6: several years, to the extent that the DTIC put out

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Speaker 6: a white paper and EV manufacturing about two years ago

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Speaker 6: with a range of implementation measures, including how incentives can

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Speaker 6: be changed for that. In the component manufacturing space, I

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Speaker 6: assure you that although there's no domestic vehicle or producer

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Speaker 6: of electric vehicles, component companies in South Africa are already

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Speaker 6: supplying EV components into global platforms. So the transition is happening,

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Speaker 6: and at least from a supplier perspective, we are ready.

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Speaker 6: When announcements are made about EV platforms in South Africa.

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Speaker 6: I'm very confident that the supplier base will respond accordingly.

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Speaker 3: The sort of massive number of cars, particularly from China

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Speaker 3: one million cars they exported five years ago there due

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Speaker 3: to export six million this year. It's caught so many

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Speaker 3: people by surprise. This is happening to car industries around

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Speaker 3: the world, whether it be Poland or South Africa or wherever.

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Speaker 3: I would think that lots of other countries are looking

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Speaker 3: for alternatives too. They're looking for solutions to this problem.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, and that is why we need to be on

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Speaker 6: our tours, and we.

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Speaker 2: Need to.

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Speaker 6: Again recognize that we've got a domestic manufacturing industry and

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Speaker 6: we shouldn't be So that's you can I don't know

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Speaker 6: if you know this, Stephen. We've got either the highest

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Speaker 6: amongst the highest per capita choice of vehicles on our roads.

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Speaker 6: At the same time we're trying to grow auto's manufacturing,

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Speaker 6: and now you've got a situation where particularly entry level

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Speaker 6: vehicles in coming both out of India and Chinese factories,

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Speaker 6: low cost destinations of production with significant levels of government

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Speaker 6: supporting those economies now finding their way into our domestic market.

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Speaker 6: And cartlees recovered last year. I mean they were had

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Speaker 6: gone up to are you looking to close?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Renee, I'm so sorry. I do have to leave

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Speaker 3: it there. I do apologize at to interrupt you there

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Speaker 3: Renee Motilal is the sea of the National Association of

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Speaker 3: Automotive Components and Allied Manufacturers. Twenty three minutes after six.

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Speaker 1: The Money Show with Stephens seven two seven o two.

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Speaker 3: Finally, after a long period of discussion, the launch this

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Speaker 3: week of a new African ratings agency. I've been strong

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Speaker 3: comments from our finance Minster in many others that the

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Speaker 3: three big international ratings agencies discriminate against African economies. Doctor

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Speaker 3: Sofiso Falala is the president of the African Credit Rating

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Speaker 3: Association at Doctor Falala, Good evening to you. From what

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Speaker 3: I can see, the main difference between this new ratings

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Speaker 3: agency and other agencies is that this will be or

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Speaker 3: should be more transparent. How big are these differences going

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Speaker 3: to be?

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Speaker 2: Good evenings. It's very important to.

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Speaker 8: Mention that we are an association of ratings agencies across

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Speaker 8: the continent and because of that, the difference will be

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Speaker 8: occasioned by our understanding of the economic imperatives and the

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Speaker 8: investment climate on the continent, and certainly the performance of

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Speaker 8: the various sovereigns in relation to their ability to repay

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Speaker 8: data that they owe. So we think that there will

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Speaker 8: be a massive difference occasioned by an introduction of fairer

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Speaker 8: measures and more objective assessment of the performance of the

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Speaker 8: various African countries as far as credit worthiness is concerned.

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Speaker 3: As I understand it, with the sort of Big three

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Speaker 3: ratings agencies, the methodology is quite transparent, the actual decision

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Speaker 3: making is not. I'm presuming your methodology will be transparent

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely, we actually are you scale. That means that we

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Speaker 8: actually cover ninety percent of.

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Speaker 2: What they.

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Speaker 8: Detail, because as you know, with a lot of these

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Speaker 8: rating actions, when financial information is collective, it is subject

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Speaker 8: to being weighted, in other words, allocated a score that

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Speaker 8: is a ceiling in one direction or in another direction.

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Speaker 8: And the ceiling might be occasioned, for example, by a region,

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Speaker 8: by the types of neighbors that the economy has. And

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Speaker 8: even if an African economy, for instance, is growing at

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Speaker 8: an exceptional rate is happening in places like Ghana and

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Speaker 8: a Kenya for instances, at the moment, you may find

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Speaker 8: that notwithstanding that fact, this may not be reflected in

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Speaker 8: the ratings.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things that happens with the other

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Speaker 3: agencies is that there's no right of appeal, So that

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Speaker 3: could give South Africa a rating, and we just have

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Speaker 3: to accept that all we can do is complain about

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Speaker 3: it publicly. Will there be any kind of appeal mechanism here?

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Speaker 5: Certainly?

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Speaker 8: I think the association is therefore that reason steven as

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Speaker 8: an association and we provide a number of services, one

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Speaker 8: of which is to try and standardize the quality and

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Speaker 8: objectivity of the methodologies that are being used. The other

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Speaker 8: one is to actually be open to receiving comments and

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Speaker 8: analyzing them at an association level, so that there's an

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Speaker 8: open interrogation of the methods that we use, all of

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Speaker 8: which are published on our various websites.

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Speaker 2: Each of the individual entities has a website.

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Speaker 8: And you've got to remember also that the rating actions

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Speaker 8: that we undertake in Africa and throughout the world are regulated.

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Speaker 2: We operate within a.

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Speaker 8: Regulated industry, meaning that we have an obligation to be transparent.

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Speaker 3: The crucial test, I suppose, is not going to be

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Speaker 3: whether countries or companies are happy with their ratings, but

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Speaker 3: whether investors use these ratings in conjunction with other ratings

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Speaker 3: or not, whether they have the same credibility as the

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Speaker 3: ratings of the other agencies. Do you believe that they will.

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Speaker 8: At the formation of the At the launch the African

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Speaker 8: Credit Ratings Association ACRA yesterday, the issue of credibility was discussed.

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Speaker 8: We had several academics that work at a very high

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Speaker 8: level that contribute papers to the academics space, and we

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Speaker 8: noted that the issue of credibility around anything sourced from

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Speaker 8: Africa does tend to be pervasive and at the best

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Speaker 8: of times, is not always objective, and we have devised

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Speaker 8: measures and pathways to ensure that where there is a

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Speaker 8: decision that there's a lack of credibility, that decision should

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Speaker 8: be substantiated. And importantly, Stephen, one of the most interesting

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Speaker 8: in merging trends that we are seeing is that we

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Speaker 8: do have African investors as well, so it's not the

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Speaker 8: case that all investors come from overseas.

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Speaker 2: And the first aim of the African Credit.

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Speaker 8: Ratings Association is to ensure that we have rapport and

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Speaker 8: good bilaterals with African investors, including institutional investors, various corporates

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Speaker 8: and others that have the capacity to invest. And based

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Speaker 8: on what we saw yesterday, there is excitement. There's an

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Speaker 8: emerging excitement about a new look at African credibility, a

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Speaker 8: new look at African professionalism and African competence, and that starts.

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Speaker 8: The conclusion that we reached was that that starts with

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Speaker 8: Africans themselves. And once we have finished our process where

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Speaker 8: we are communicating with various institutions that are involved in

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Speaker 8: cashlow management in terms of investing internally and externally within

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Speaker 8: the continent, I think we will have a better understanding

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Speaker 8: of their appetite for investing in Africa and also paying

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Speaker 8: objective attention to ratings that emerge from the continent.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Savisa Falala, thank you so much, President of the

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Speaker 3: African Credit Rating Association.

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Speaker 7: The Money Show, the Market.

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Speaker 3: Chris Stewart is Portcolio manager at ninety one Chris Good Evening,

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Speaker 3: first of our retailers reporting on the festive season. Mister

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Speaker 3: Price has seemed quite a beat.

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Speaker 9: Should they be, Well, you know, if you look at

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Speaker 9: the sales number, steven, it's not a particularly great sales number,

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Speaker 9: three point six percent, a little bit I think below

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Speaker 9: what the market was expecting. Also indicating a little bit

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Speaker 9: of gross margin pressure down about twenty basis points odd

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Speaker 9: on the court. And I think under normal circumstances, mister

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Speaker 9: Price probably wouldn't receive that kind of news very well,

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Speaker 9: but it is a tough trading environment, and it does

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Speaker 9: look as though they are still gaining apparel market share,

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Speaker 9: at least against their physical or listed competitors, rather than

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Speaker 9: the online competitors that we've spent some time talking about.

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Speaker 3: So not great, but remember where the shares coming from.

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Speaker 9: It sold off twenty five percent in the last quarter,

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Speaker 9: largely on the back of the NKD deal that they

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Speaker 9: announced to the market that they're acquiring an offshore retailer

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Speaker 9: across Germany and Eastern Europe, which the market is absolutely

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Speaker 9: hated and punished the stop for quite materially. So you know,

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Speaker 9: not great news today, but not a complete disaster. A

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Speaker 9: little bit better in January, making some positive statements about

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Speaker 9: the perspective outlook, and as a result of that, the

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Speaker 9: market taking it okay today, not great, but okay.

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Speaker 3: And then expectations of the US FED most of the

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Speaker 3: money i've seen seems to be on a hold.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got lots going on in the US tonight.

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Speaker 9: We've got Microsoft reporting, We've got Meta reporting, We've got

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Speaker 9: Tesla reporting, so you know, some of the big tech

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Speaker 9: giants will be reporting. We've got the all important FED

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Speaker 9: rate decision and a duvish hold, I guess is probably

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Speaker 9: the consensus view right now, no doubt in the event

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Speaker 9: that there is a hold, and that it does appear

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Speaker 9: as though the Federal Reserve is fairly unanimous in that view,

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Speaker 9: we will get Trump out on his social media channels

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Speaker 9: talking about, you know, what a terrible job Jerome pal

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Speaker 9: is doing, and how he can't wait for him to

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Speaker 9: leave in May so that he can replace him with

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Speaker 9: somebody who is going to I guess cut rates aggressively,

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Speaker 9: all of which you know, will continue to raise the

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Speaker 9: specter of further dollar weakness, and I guess raised the

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Speaker 9: spector of can the FED maintain independence under pressure from

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Speaker 9: the United States present?

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Speaker 3: Christian, thanks so much, portfolio manager at ninety one, just

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Speaker 3: after six thirty, what.

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Speaker 1: Stephen on seven two seven oh two one seven two, Well.

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Speaker 3: I've sort of been twenty four report today and obviously

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Speaker 3: they've tried nothing correctly so to try and get some

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Speaker 3: sort of reaction from the mobile phone industry about the

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Speaker 3: new data role over rules that came out of IKARSA

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Speaker 3: this week. We spoke to AKASA. Basically, if you have

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Speaker 3: a mobile data bundle and you don't use all of

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Speaker 3: the data tester roll over at least once. That's only

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Speaker 3: coming in from the beginning of next year, and from

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Speaker 3: what I could see, basically the cell phone industry complaining

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Speaker 3: that they weren't listened to, which is a bit like

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Speaker 3: saying to someone we think you've made lots of money,

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Speaker 3: we want you to make less money. It really doesn't

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Speaker 3: matter what you say to them, how much you listen

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Speaker 3: to them, they're always going to come back and say that.

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Speaker 3: What we don't have yet is any clarity on whether

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Speaker 3: they're actually going to go to court to stop it.

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Speaker 3: And I suspect, being I'm afraid to say slightly cynical

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Speaker 3: about business organizations, that we might have to wait a

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Speaker 3: little while and it might be just before they're actually

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Speaker 3: brought in so towards the end of the year that

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Speaker 3: we actually find out whether or not there's going to

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Speaker 3: be a case. I'd watch that one closely. Oh seven

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Speaker 3: two seven oh two one seven oh two two with.

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Speaker 1: Email him on Stephen at seven oh two dot co dotz.

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Speaker 3: Thirteen minutes to seven time on News Today. The amount

440
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 3: of coal exported through the Richards Bay Coal Terminal last

441
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 3: year was up by eleven percent. That's still significantly below

442
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: the figure recorded back in twenty seventeen, but it's also

443
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: a massive improvement. Professor Young Haavena is a professor of

444
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 3: logistics at the University of Stellenbosch and director of the

445
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: GAIN Group. Young good evening, we've seen so many more

446
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 3: trains going on that Transnett route. What's really changed to

447
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 3: allow this to happen?

448
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 5: I think the most thanksfu Evice, I think the most

449
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 5: important change you refer back to a few years is

450
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 5: a very low point that we've got to run about

451
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two. I remember correctly, sadly at the point

452
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 5: when the cold crist is very high because of the

453
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 5: Ukrainian War. Since then, a few things has happened. Initially

454
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 5: it was Mining Council, it was the people from business

455
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 5: approaching the president and the Nationalistics Crisis Committee being formed,

456
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 5: and some work being done from the private sector to

457
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 5: really help. I think what really changes is was the

458
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 5: new leadership. To translate, they've been in Charles now for

459
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 5: a little bit less than two years. I think Michelle

460
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 5: Phillips as the Sea and then obviously Russell Biks as

461
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 5: the head of the railways, and they've done significant improvements

462
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 5: since then. And then one must remember. I mean, if

463
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 5: you talk about numbers, they need to get tough about

464
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 5: seventy five million tons A dropped to fifty used to

465
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 5: be seventy five. We dropped to fifty million tons. I

466
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 5: lost a third for the biggest cash card of the

467
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 5: owayad and you must remember. Clawing back from there it

468
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 5: requires quite a few things, and they've done the obvious things.

469
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 5: Initially I thought, okay, you're doing all the things these days.

470
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 5: They're doing really interesting and clever stuff. But they're still

471
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 5: doing all of this without the major maintenance backlocks, the

472
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 5: investment that is required to make that work. They've not

473
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 5: been able to do that yet for lots of reasons.

474
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 5: But I've got it out from fifty to over sixty

475
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 5: million pounds the rate that they're running at at the moment,

476
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 5: another firsteing or so to go, and for that some

477
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 5: major works can be required.

478
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 3: I mean, one of the big problems was cable theft,

479
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: I mean simple kind of criminality or sabotage. Now, I

480
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: don't expect trans Nett to tell us about everything they've

481
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 3: done to bring that down, but whatever they're doing on

482
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: those routes, it's working well.

483
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 5: It's all of the areas. And one of the things

484
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 5: that you talk about, the previous management of TRANSNS literally

485
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 5: hit behind the locomotive problem. But you can break the

486
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 5: problem up into a few areas apart from the big

487
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 5: maintenance works that still hasn't been done. And in order

488
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 5: to get their independence, assessment was done. And I think

489
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 5: there's negotiations going on the team transmit and big business

490
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 5: about the artists is going to be funded. These are Yeah,

491
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 5: we're talking about big transactions that sort of borders on

492
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 5: VISPSP top of transaction. But for the rest it's locomotives

493
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 5: is maybe twenty percent of the problem. Safety and vandalism

494
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 5: was another twenty percent of so of the problem. But

495
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 5: then it was normal inability to run an eutroad, which

496
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 5: the previous management below rooting and scheduling, the way we

497
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 5: staff is deployed. And for all of these things, RASNA

498
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 5: strands some really creative solutions. And I learned something today

499
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 5: that I didn't know. I thought I knew everything about that.

500
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 5: About that goal line. You know, we run three hundred

501
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 5: wagon trains on iron on line and two hundred dagon

502
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 5: trains on the goal line. They are secretly in the

503
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 5: last few months started running three under plane. They've done

504
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 5: all the tests, they made it work, and running three

505
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 5: hundred wagon trains on that go line, so it's not

506
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 5: only more trains, but as area trains, and that is

507
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 5: great engineering and that's hard work. So I hope they

508
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 5: can't give the next step. Now we're just required to

509
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,959
Speaker 5: get this done. And that is the major investment in

510
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 5: a maintenance that sell behind that transmit cannot fund from

511
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 5: the redallianceships.

512
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 3: So we've got those improvements. I'm presuming these will whatever's

513
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 3: working there will work on the other trans net lines

514
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 3: as well, or certainly the major ones. Could this be

515
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 3: the air when our economy starts to really feel the

516
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 3: impact of improved trans neitt logistics and improved railway system.

517
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 5: You touching on a better sweet, better sweet element of

518
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 5: this of this thing. Transmit for obvious reasons, immediately jumped

519
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 5: in and work on the two cashcows, which is the

520
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 5: goal line and iron on line. And I have to

521
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 5: say also different work around manganese. A lot of people

522
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 5: miss the major medicle of manganese. You've seen numbers so

523
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 5: that twenty years ago two million times now in a

524
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 5: region of twelve million times, and that is fantastic improvement.

525
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 5: The solution for the general faith business of transmit. I'm

526
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 5: afraid that should be on the rail and our two

527
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 5: major corridors, especially the Capitone corridor and the Hotel corridor.

528
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 5: I'm not seeing that yet. I'm not seeing improvement. I'm

529
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 5: not seeing equipment in numbers. We know what needs to

530
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 5: be done, but it's much more complex and a lot

531
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 5: of people need to come to the party to make

532
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 5: this work. The one aspect that will make it work

533
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 5: as private sector access and I think the attractions of

534
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 5: the world, the grinds of the world. It's going to

535
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 5: bring us trains. We know the traction this is made

536
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 5: in our major investment inam running stock, et cetera. But

537
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 5: and the big part is the infrastructure is broken and

538
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 5: there we haven't got a specific solution yet. I'm not

539
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 5: saying people are not working on it, but I've not

540
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 5: seen the solution that's going to give us the railway

541
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 5: that we should have, and we should start pushing for that.

542
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 5: We know it can be done. The solution as such

543
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 5: as not on the table yet. The minute has gone

544
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 5: out on PSP request as we know, we've not seen

545
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 5: out of that yet. How this is going to work.

546
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 5: I know that they're working hard on it, but as

547
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 5: should have in general, we've not seen it that it's

548
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 5: going to work, and we really need to push that

549
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 5: the genda now.

550
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: Professor, thank you so much. Professor anhavan Achaz, Professor of

551
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 3: Logistics at the University of Sembosch, Director of the Gain Group.

552
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 10: The Money Show with Stephen Kuetz is brought to you

553
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 10: by ABS as cib a Pan African bank invested in

554
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 10: your story and the potential it can unlock because your

555
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 10: story matters as as the rest of the FSP Well.

556
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 3: More evidence today that we might, let me just say,

557
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 3: might start to feel our economy is turning around. This

558
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: year the Paying Net Salary Index, showing that people earning

559
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: between five thousand and one hundred thousand rand a month

560
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 3: did get an increase in real terms last year of

561
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: half a percent. It's the second year of proper income growth.

562
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 3: Elise Krueger is an independent economist who looks at these

563
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: numbers put them together at least good evening, How have

564
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 3: salaries been moving over the last few months. I mean

565
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 3: we see all of the sort of good economic news

566
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 3: things see in the line and a good aligned in

567
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 3: a good direction. That doesn't always mean we feel richer.

568
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 11: Good Evening Stevens. Yes, you know, if you look at

569
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 11: a lot of part of last year salaries that flattened

570
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 11: somewhat compared to early in the years. So if you

571
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 11: look at the first half, you know, salary increases were

572
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 11: in the order phenomenal terms of about four point seven percent,

573
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 11: and then the full years numbers came out about three

574
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 11: point seven. So we have seen a bit of flattening

575
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 11: out of the end of the year. But you know,

576
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 11: typically for celeary data, it's good to look at an

577
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 11: annual average rather than to look at quarters or even

578
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 11: whole twelve years. So the three point seven compared to

579
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 11: four point six percent in the previous years, so somewhat

580
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 11: of a moderation.

581
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 12: But also a continuation.

582
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 11: Of growth in salaries.

583
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, what I suppose you're looking at is

584
00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 3: average salary growth and average inflation. And the Reserve Bank

585
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 3: now wants to limit inflation expectations. They want us to

586
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 3: presume and assume that inflation will remain low. And that

587
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 3: doesn't that then feed into what buses will give workers.

588
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 3: They will give them smaller increases.

589
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 12: Yes, absolutely, and if we can manage to get.

590
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 11: CPI to say a three percent you know, a long

591
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 11: term and you know, sort of target at that level

592
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 11: and it realizes, then one could say, you know, it

593
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 11: is fair and would expect in a three percent plus

594
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 11: some form of a real increase, you know, on top

595
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 11: of that, just to to get your employees to at

596
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 11: least keep up with it puts in power and I

597
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 11: think we will see that at the time, Steven, But

598
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 11: it will take time for experise.

599
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 5: Mon.

600
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 3: That's quite al right, is welcome on the Money Show.

601
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 12: It's will take time, you know, for us to see.

602
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 11: That declining trend in white settlements, especially given that you've

603
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 11: got quite a few multi year ways agree immens that

604
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 11: are still you know, running and we will see the

605
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 11: year two, three and four and someone still coming through

606
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 11: at quite high levels compete to a year ago. We

607
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 11: competed at three percent targeted in net orders say that.

608
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I suppose a big part of this is

609
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 3: around what skills you have. We have millions unfortunately, millions

610
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 3: of people who don't have jobs in South Africa can't

611
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 3: get jobs. If you have skills, I presume that it's

612
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 3: much easier to argue for a bigger than inflation increase

613
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 3: if there's a shortage of those skills in your sector,

614
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 3: and if we start to see that happening, that suggests

615
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 3: that things are moving in certain sectors of our economy.

616
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 11: That is definitely true. As Stephen, I think we are

617
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 11: seeing a lot of that, and leeds a lot of folds.

618
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 11: They talk about skill shortage and the impact on wage

619
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 11: settlements and wage negotiations, and also the whole theme of

620
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 11: retention of talent. So once you've got your workers with

621
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 11: that are highly skilled, you with like to keep things.

622
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 12: Therefore, it becomes.

623
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 6: Quite an important.

624
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 11: Negotiating you know, aspect for workers if they do have

625
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 11: a skill skill that they know the company needs and

626
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 11: companies are willing to pay for that.

627
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 12: So I think it will be really stick to specific.

628
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 11: Therefore, you looking at looking at an average is almost

629
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 11: like a dipstick for the whole economy. But there will

630
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 11: be different segments that will fear better compete to others.

631
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 3: I suppose if you consider that for quite a long time,

632
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 3: salaries haven't really improved in real terms for most people.

633
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 3: Even if things do look up, there's still so much

634
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 3: sort of recovery to do. I mean GDP per capital,

635
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 3: the amount that each person earned in a year, and

636
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 3: South hasn't really increased for a very long time.

637
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 11: Yeah, indeed true. And we also have quite an erosion

638
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 11: of our salaries in the in the years twenty two

639
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 11: twenty three, you know, after COVID, and we are still

640
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 11: if you compete to those levels in built and we

641
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 11: are still playing catch up. So yes, you know, it's

642
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 11: great if we can ad consecutive years of real increases

643
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 11: in wages, but we are still if you could do

644
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 11: comparisons to a couple of years ago, we are still lagging.

645
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 3: Eliz Kruger, thanks so much. Independent economists puts those numbers together,

646
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: Ready to appreciate that so much to talk about when

647
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 3: it comes to your salary and how much it's worth

648
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 3: in real terms. In a moment, we will be looking

649
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 3: at business unusual and why it is that so many

650
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 3: of us could get all the tools we need on

651
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 3: our phone or on a relatively cheap device, and yet

652
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 3: very few of us are using all of those tools

653
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 3: that are available. Suppose if you wanted to put a

654
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: headline to it, it would be why a behavior is

655
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: becoming more important than technology? Technology? We all have it's

656
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 3: in your pocket with the money show seven o'clock.

657
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephens on seven o two.

658
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 7: Let's walk little.

659
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis has brought to you

660
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 3: by abs of corporates and investment banking, a Pan African

661
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 3: bank that's an invested in your story because your story

662
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 3: matter is good. Evening seven minutes after seven the time

663
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 3: will be speaking to Richard Mulholland, the founder of the

664
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 3: AI Agency Too Many Robots, about this quite simple idea

665
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 3: in a way that almost everything you need to do

666
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 3: you could probably do with your cell phone. If it's

667
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 3: above a certain standard, and so many of them are,

668
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 3: you could probably do almost everything. You wouldn't need the

669
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 3: very expensive device to use Google software, free software whatever

670
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 3: from the cloud and off you go. So why do

671
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: so few of us do it? It's a question I

672
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 3: think that's going to get to the heart of so

673
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 3: many companies. Wendy Nola, your consumer Ninja, has refused to

674
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 3: tell me much about what we're talking about tonight, but

675
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 3: she says it is about the fact that the Money

676
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: Show that'll be us helped someone to buy a house. Now,

677
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 3: I'm hoping that it works out as a good investment,

678
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 3: but clearly there's a very interesting story she has to tell,

679
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 3: So I will hear the story along with you in

680
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 3: about ten minutes. And then if I look behind me,

681
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 3: there is Vernustacky is the CEO of a Stubber and

682
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 3: the co founder of the company Jenny Internet. He'll be

683
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,479
Speaker 3: on your radio in about twenty minutes. Time. He got

684
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 3: started early. You know, some shape shifters I've noticed start

685
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,959
Speaker 3: sort of mid career. Some start early. He started while

686
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 3: he was at school and did some very interesting things.

687
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 3: So we'll hear about that. Looking forward to that conversation

688
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 3: and that story from seven point thirty.

689
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 1: The Money Show with Stephen krudis live on ninety two

690
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

691
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: Media Plus.

692
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 7: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

693
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 3: I had to smile a little bit this morning. I

694
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 3: don't know if you recall. I started the show yesterday

695
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 3: talking about the major supply chain problems that Starbucks in

696
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 3: the US has head not Starbucks here, but Starbucks in

697
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 3: the US, and how it is they have too many suppliers,

698
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 3: so too many small suppliers and not enough big ones.

699
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 3: They battle literally to get the right kind of lid

700
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 3: for some of the coffee, they're not getting enough milk.

701
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 3: Sometimes they're too much of this sandwich and not enough

702
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 3: of that one, all of those kind of problems. And

703
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 3: I was asking you on O seven two seven oh

704
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,439
Speaker 3: two one seven oh two, what kind of supply chain

705
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 3: problems you've seen? You know, and you can't get what

706
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 3: you expected to get, and how do you feel about it? Well,

707
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 3: I saw today that the Gianna Cooppolis family, they're quite

708
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 3: a well known family in parts of Quasil until I understand.

709
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: I don't think I've ever spoken to a member of

710
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 3: the family, but what they sort of famous for in

711
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: some ways is that they own quite a large number

712
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 3: of SPA outlets. So SPA franchises in the way SPA

713
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,439
Speaker 3: works is unlike say Pick and Pay or Checkers, which

714
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 3: owns most of their outlets. Those chains own most of

715
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 3: their outlets. SPA works on a more of a franchise model.

716
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 3: You have to buy I think it's eighty or ninety

717
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 3: percent of everything you sell at the zoop market from SPA,

718
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 3: and the Gena Cooppolis family are suing them for one

719
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 3: hundred and seventy million rand because of supply chain problems,

720
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 3: And it just shows you what the steaks are. Their

721
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 3: point is that everything was sort of working until a

722
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 3: brand new SAP system. Where have we heard this story before?

723
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 3: A new IT system was brought in and suddenly they

724
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 3: couldn't get anything that they needed. As a result, they

725
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 3: lost a huge amount of sales. And you can imagine

726
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 3: how that can happen. At some point we need to

727
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 3: speak to some supply chain specialists and just get a

728
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 3: deeper understanding of how it works. How difficult is it

729
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 3: to get that bottle of pepsi and that can of

730
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 3: coke to the right place at the right time. What

731
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 3: happens if a branch of McDonald's only gets the bottoms

732
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 3: of the burgers but not the tops all of that

733
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 3: kind of thing. You know, what does burger king do?

734
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 3: I think there's going to be some very interesting conversations

735
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 3: that come out of it. If you have any experience,

736
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 3: or some people you'd suggest we talked to, won't you

737
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 3: get in touch please on O seven two seven oh

738
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 3: two one seven oh two, eleven minutes after seven.

739
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 7: Money show business unusual.

740
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 3: Well, I suppose one of the things that's so interesting

741
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 3: about the way the world is now is that you can,

742
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 3: I'm sure use chat GPT on your phone. In fact,

743
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 3: I know you can because even I have. And yet

744
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 3: so few of us are using all of the things

745
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 3: that are available for us. So why is that? Richard

746
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 3: Mulfolland is the founder of the AI agency Too Many

747
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 3: Robot's the author of the book Relentless Relevant. How's it? Richard?

748
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 3: Has been a long time, So good evening, Good to

749
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 3: talk again. We all have kind of most of what

750
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 3: we need in our pocket, and we have internet access,

751
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 3: we have AI, and yet we're not actually using it

752
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 3: to anything like the full potential. Oh, very few of

753
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 3: us are.

754
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 13: Yeah, student, I'm also grit schat you again. I think

755
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 13: you're absolutely right. So there was a William Gibson quote

756
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 13: that I recently kind of appeared up for me again

757
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 13: a few weeks ago, and it was the future is

758
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 13: already here. It's just not very evenly distributed. And that

759
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 13: quote has been in the prevailing wisdom for so long

760
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 13: that we've always just kind of accepted it as always

761
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 13: been true.

762
00:42:58,760 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 3: Now.

763
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 13: I believe it was true in ninety nine when he

764
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 13: said it, but I absolutely don't think that it's true now.

765
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 13: You know, like the billionaires in the world don't have

766
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 13: better phones in their pockets than we do. And the

767
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 13: phones we have in our pockets now are better, you know,

768
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 13: by an order of magnitude than they create supercomputers that

769
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 13: were available twenty years ago, and yet people are still

770
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 13: using them to you know, scroll TikTok, and not nearly

771
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 13: to the potential that they can. And it's not just

772
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 13: cell phones, it's three D printers, it's vibe coding tools.

773
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 13: I just don't think that we have realized that the

774
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 13: future is more evenly distributed than ever before, and I

775
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 13: don't think we're embracing that.

776
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 3: Why do you think that happens? I mean, is it

777
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 3: because we're too busy doing other things, by which I

778
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,439
Speaker 3: mean kind of twentieth century things. Is it because we

779
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 3: just never get time to play? Is it because don't

780
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:52,399
Speaker 3: you dare I'm too old?

781
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's I think it's all of those.

782
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 11: You know.

783
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 13: On my first book, legac Side, I spoke about the

784
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 13: fact that legacy thinking is the silent killer progress. It's

785
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 13: the idea that we solve a problem in our brain

786
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 13: and then we check it off and we move on

787
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 13: to new things, but we never go back to those

788
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 13: old things to say are they still relevant? And so,

789
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 13: you know, for me, the technological barrier has been removed,

790
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 13: but not the psychological one, So starting something is still scary.

791
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 13: Now people don't feel because they can't build anymore, but

792
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 13: they fail because they're waiting to be ready, or to

793
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 13: be perfect, or for permission. And ironically, now execution is cheap,

794
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 13: but excuses are expensive, and I think that people are

795
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 13: using excuses far too much for not doing things. And

796
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 13: I just think that a lot of people don't realize

797
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 13: they can do it.

798
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 9: Yet.

799
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 13: People are still paying software subscriptions to a lot of

800
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 13: software as a service tools that they could quite easily

801
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 13: create an under a day a version that would work

802
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 13: very well for themselves, and they just don't quite mind

803
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 13: blowing to me.

804
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 3: Okay, So if everyone has access to everything, what skills

805
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 3: kind of matter? I mean, what what suddenly becomes your

806
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 3: competitive age as a person trying to sort of stay

807
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 3: employed in this environment?

808
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 14: Yeah?

809
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 13: I think that's really interesting, right, because if everybody can

810
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 13: make anything, then all of a sudden, the most important

811
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 13: choice is.

812
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 7: Is judgment, Like what is worth building?

813
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 9: No?

814
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 7: You know what's good? And I think the most important.

815
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 13: Tool that we have is curiosity, And I think that

816
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 13: people aren't curious enough they're not seeing themselves as makers.

817
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 13: I also believe by the way that in the future

818
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 13: we're entering into every single human should have multiple income streams.

819
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 13: The idea of being reliant on a single source of

820
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 13: income in the next two years it seems like a really, really,

821
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 13: really dangerous idea. And we now have these tools that

822
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 13: can allow people to have, you know, four or five

823
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 13: six different income streams. Potentially, some of them might be

824
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 13: to be smaller than they're getting from their salary. But

825
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 13: if they are not curious enough to explore them, and

826
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 13: if they don't have the judgment to try and think

827
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 13: about interesting, cool ideas, then then they'll lose potentially. But

828
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 13: I think that the tools are out there and people

829
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 13: are just not embracing them, isn't there.

830
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 7: I mean, also, yeah, I think they have to have

831
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 7: a bias for action.

832
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 13: So sorry, I think people have to have a bias

833
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 13: towards action. They have to realize that they have to

834
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 13: be makers, and I believe that a lot of people

835
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 13: and entrepreneurs are just not doing that.

836
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 3: At the same time, I mean, so all of that

837
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: must be true. I think people are sometimes consumed by

838
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 3: their day, you know, they just don't have time to

839
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 3: get into it. And I suppose that takes us back

840
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 3: to something many people have said, is that you do

841
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 3: need to give yourself an hour a week or an

842
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 3: hour a day to do new things and play new things,

843
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 3: especially if you're running a small business.

844
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 13: One hundred percent agree with you. You know, last night,

845
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 13: I finished work, I went to a jiu jitsu class.

846
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 13: I came home and I sat and I was vibe

847
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 13: couding a new tool that I'm looking.

848
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 7: At creating for professional speakers.

849
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 13: Now, obviously I was building a tool that I would

850
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 13: want to use, but I had so much fun.

851
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 7: It doesn't feel like work. This new technology.

852
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 13: Is it's like a fear ground, and when you dig

853
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 13: into it and you realize what's absolutely possible, it really

854
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 13: is a super fun way to spend an evening. But

855
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 13: I find that people aren't doing it because they think

856
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 13: of it as work and they think that, you know,

857
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 13: they don't want to switch over at the end of

858
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 13: the day.

859
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 7: They want to switch off.

860
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 13: And I do believe that we need to have the

861
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 13: mindset that you know, at five o'clock switch over and

862
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 13: doom squalling doesn't feel like a reasonable use of time.

863
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 3: Oh sure, are they particular practical steps that a business

864
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 3: owner could take to sort of, you know, try and

865
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: act on the future in a way.

866
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 9: Yeah.

867
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 13: Absolutely, Now everybody, every business owner I know currently uses

868
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 13: you know, an LM of some sorts, Gemini, CHTBT, things

869
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 13: like that. Really really good way to start, and in fact,

870
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 13: the way I start every single one of these projects

871
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 13: that I'm working on is I just have a really

872
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 13: reasonable conversation about a point of view about my industry

873
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 13: with one of these tools, and in each instance they

874
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 13: will write you the starting code that you can take

875
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 13: into another service like Claude or Replets.

876
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 7: You know, you'd be able to.

877
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 13: Literally get started with the tool in under an hour

878
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 13: and all you have to do is have a conversation

879
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 13: with your LLM around your industry, around the problems that

880
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 13: you're facing in your business, problems that you wish you

881
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 13: would like to solve for yourself. And the interesting thing

882
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 13: that will happen is if you solve a problem for yourself,

883
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 13: you may find that it's a problem that other people have.

884
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 13: Like I'm not sure if you remember the messaging tool slack.

885
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 13: Slack was actually an internal tool that was created for

886
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 13: a gaming company that was trying to launch a game

887
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 13: the game never took off, but the little messaging tools

888
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 13: they created just to solve the problem that they had

889
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 13: and game design did and was sold for billions of dollars.

890
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 3: So interesting. Richard Muholland, thank you so much, founder of

891
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 3: AI agency Too Many Robots and author of the book

892
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 3: Relentless Relevance. Eighteen minutes after seven.

893
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 7: The Money Show consumer Ninja.

894
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 3: Well, your consumer Ninja, of course, is Wendy Nler, and

895
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 3: she joins us. Now, how's it, Wendy, you're talking tonight

896
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 3: about how I don't know how I got involved in

897
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 3: this or how the Money Show did, how we helped

898
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 3: the listener buy a house, and you got some feedback

899
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 3: from a regular listener, I have Stephen.

900
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 11: Hello.

901
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 14: It's always gratifying when you get feedback like this. It's

902
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 14: very seldom, actually you put advice out and you think, well,

903
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:44,479
Speaker 14: maybe that'll help someone, but you're never quite sure. So yeah,

904
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 14: I got an email from Matthew earlier in the week

905
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 14: and it began. I listened to your segment on The

906
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 14: Money Show every week the podcast, and I just wanted

907
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 14: to say thank you. My wife and I I'll buy

908
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 14: our first home together, and thanks to you, I knew

909
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 14: how too, then he goes on to.

910
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 15: List all the precautions that he took. So I thought

911
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 15: it was worth sharing because it's quite good key advice

912
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,760
Speaker 15: on you know, how to go by and buying a house.

913
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 3: What was on his list, because I mean, he would

914
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 3: have taken some time to put it together, and it's obvious.

915
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 3: It's not stuff that's always obvious.

916
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 14: Okay, Yeah, So I found it really interesting.

917
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 15: He said.

918
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 14: He first got Inspector Home. That's one of these professional

919
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 14: property inspection companies. There are others. House Check is another one.

920
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 14: I think that's the biggest one in the country, but

921
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 14: there are many. They got Inspector Home out to check.

922
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 15: That the home that they were buying was sound. He says.

923
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 15: It's an old home built one hundred years ago in.

924
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 14: Parktown, North So this was crucial, he says, because he

925
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 14: has the thing. According to John Graham, who's the head

926
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 14: of house Check, one of which is one of the

927
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 14: one of these companies, only between three and five percent

928
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 14: of homeowners do this on average. I don't know about you, seven,

929
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 14: but I found that horrifying statistics given and probably because

930
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 14: I get the emails from people who weren't told that

931
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 14: there was damp or you know, a dodgy roof and

932
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 14: found out the hard expensive way later. So so yeah,

933
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 14: for me, it's a no brain And I was so

934
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 14: so many so few people do it that when not

935
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 14: Matthew told me about it, I was like, oh, that's

936
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 14: that made my day.

937
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:21,760
Speaker 15: Yeah.

938
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 3: And the main issues, I mean, there are obviously so

939
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 3: many things that can happen with the house, it's such

940
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 3: a big purchase.

941
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 14: The main ones are no plans or an extension done

942
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 14: in addition done no plans, and that's a big issue.

943
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 14: Roof poorly constructed or badly maintained or both, non compliant

944
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 14: installations of geezers and damp it's a huge one have

945
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 14: in many of those cases. And then walls and roots

946
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 14: are not built to building regulations standards and also boundary walls,

947
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 14: and this of course is a big issue if you

948
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 14: have an insurance plan. Is a big storm, it's your area,

949
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 14: the roof aves in, the wall falls down, and then

950
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 14: you're insurer comes back and it's a huge reason for

951
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 14: rejections that come back and say, oh but ursas the

952
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 14: wall wasn't built according to regulations and that's why it

953
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 14: felt downe The storm is just a contributing factor. So yeah,

954
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 14: the Graham of house Check says no one should put

955
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 14: an offer and to purchase without making it a conditional

956
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 14: upon a satisfactory home inspection.

957
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 15: Well, of course you would, that's his business.

958
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 14: But I completely agree that it is crazy to do that.

959
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 14: But if you didn't think of it before you bought

960
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 14: the house and moved, and you should absolutely do it

961
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,919
Speaker 14: now to for that insurance reason, right to make sure

962
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 14: that you're not sitting with a problem that means you're

963
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 14: going to be wasting your premiums. You're never ever going

964
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 14: to get a successful storm plan.

965
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I see that, and I suppose I

966
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 3: mean you think about a conditional offer, and I think, well, then,

967
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 3: Joe Berg, I'm sure you could do that. In Cape Town,

968
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 3: the person is just going to take, you know, in

969
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 3: some parts of Cape Town, we'll just take the next

970
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: offer that's not conditional, because there's such a shortage of

971
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 3: property in some places.

972
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 15: Absolutely so in Cape Town.

973
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 14: I can totally see that being a problem, and it

974
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 14: has been worrying me.

975
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 15: I've been thinking about this.

976
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 14: If you look at if you look at listings for

977
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 14: anything from a studio apartment to your average.

978
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 15: Home in Cape Town. You'll see under offer sold sold sold.

979
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 14: I mean, it's just absolutely crazy, huge shortage of stock

980
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 14: and too many people wanting to buy. And so I

981
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 14: can imagine if you said to the agent, well, I'm

982
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:29,919
Speaker 14: here's my offer, but I'm making it conditional upon getting

983
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 14: a check done first, which is the wise advice.

984
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 15: You'll lose out. It's a difficult one for me.

985
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 14: Because I foresee, especially in the Cape Town era, because

986
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 14: of that, I foresee problems, big problems with think about it,

987
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 14: you can sell just about anything so that you didn't

988
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 14: know any of the problems were there, and desperate buyer

989
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 14: who was like the lucky one and inverted commerce lands

990
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 14: up with big structural issues to deal with very expensively later.

991
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 3: These inspections are very expensive, Wendy.

992
00:53:58,840 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 15: Look it's all relative.

993
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 14: They're about fall to five thousand rand for the average

994
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 14: size house.

995
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 15: And you think of what they're doing. They're checking getting.

996
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 14: In the roof, they're checking your plans, they checking the

997
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 14: integrity of your boundary walls, checking to see that was

998
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 14: built according to regulation, all the things that could trip

999
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 14: you up later. So it might seem like buying a

1000
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 14: house is so expensive, and now there's this extra thing

1001
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 14: when you consider what is what's at stake. I really

1002
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 14: think it's crazy, crazy, risky to to not get that

1003
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 14: check done before you sign on that dotted line and commit.

1004
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 14: So yeah, it's a difficult one, but I talk about

1005
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 14: it a lot because, as I say, I get a

1006
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 14: lot of emails from people who didn't and then really

1007
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 14: really lived to regret it.

1008
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 3: I mean, was that other advice that that.

1009
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 14: Yeah, A few more things on this list was I

1010
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 14: made sure the home had approved plans so that we

1011
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 14: can properly ensure the home.

1012
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 15: He says, they didn't.

1013
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 14: Have the plans ready for him, so they're getting them

1014
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 14: done now the sales. So I was like, yay, so

1015
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 14: glad to hear that, because that would have been a

1016
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 14: mistake if he hadn't known to do it. And also

1017
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 14: how to avoid remember we talk about business economic slorry,

1018
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 14: business email compromised when you're paying your money over to

1019
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 14: the convincing attorneys and you and and yeah, the brook

1020
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 14: jumps in the middle, intersects the email, puts their bank

1021
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 14: details there, and and you go and pay the crook

1022
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 14: instead of the transferring attorneys.

1023
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 15: So he's done all those checks.

1024
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 14: And test he did a test one hundred rand to

1025
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 14: see it landed in the corrector cart. He says, I

1026
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 14: just wanted to say thank you for all the lessons.

1027
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 14: There's still a way to go and purchase purchasing the home.

1028
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 15: Bond approvals, et cetera. But I feel a little.

1029
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 14: Bit more knowledgeable going into the whole process and hopefully

1030
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 14: everything continues smoothly. And I certainly hope so too. Yeah,

1031
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 14: as I say, really gratified.

1032
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,720
Speaker 3: That, I mean, I mean, I was just thinking about

1033
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 3: how do you make sure you're paying it into the

1034
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 3: right thing, And I was thinking, oh, I would take

1035
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 3: my phone to the attorney's office and make them put

1036
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 3: in details.

1037
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 14: There's there Also I should add here that the other

1038
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 14: thing you can and must do is most of the

1039
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 14: banks will have a little If you look at when

1040
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 14: you go to pay do an EFT, you'll see a

1041
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 14: little thing that says something like verification. It's really an

1042
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,720
Speaker 14: expense of a few rand. And so if you're paying

1043
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 14: to the name of your transferring at Tourney or the

1044
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 14: legal practice, you can check that that actually is the

1045
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 14: practice's account and if it's not a match, your bank

1046
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 14: will tell you. So that's another way to find out.

1047
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 14: But I mean at one hundred rand or ten rand.

1048
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 15: Check is is foolproof as well.

1049
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 3: Wendy know that. Thank you so much, ready to appreciate it.

1050
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 3: Our consumer Ninja helping you buy a house and just

1051
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 3: get through life on The Money Show every week. Wendy,

1052
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 3: thanks the Money Show. Shape Shift is twenty two minutes

1053
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 3: now to eighth the time, so you'll know that many

1054
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 3: of the people who've sat now shape shift a seat

1055
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 3: started there, whatever it is that they've done. Kind of

1056
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 3: halfway through a career, someone will get to the age

1057
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 3: of thirty, thirty five, forty in decide I don't want

1058
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 3: to do this anymore. They'll spot a gap, or they'll

1059
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,919
Speaker 3: do what they're always doing, but they started their own thing.

1060
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 3: Some of our shape shifters are a complete opposite that

1061
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 3: they were knocking on doors selling things at a young age.

1062
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,919
Speaker 3: Our shape Shifter tonight is one of those. He got

1063
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 3: going while he was still I had to read it

1064
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 3: twice to make sure I'd got it correct, just still

1065
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 3: at school. Werner Stuckey is the CEO of Stubbart, the

1066
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 3: co founder of Jenny Internet, and he started vernon Good

1067
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 3: Evening it was an internet service provider while he was

1068
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 3: still at school.

1069
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, that's correct. In the days of dial up.

1070
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 3: I mean I remember the telecom signal and dial up

1071
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 3: in my head. I don't think i'll ever I mean,

1072
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 3: it's changed so much. How on earth did you end

1073
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 3: up doing that?

1074
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1075
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 16: I think we were like exposed to technology from a

1076
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 16: young age. And then yeah, those US robotics modems. We

1077
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 16: used to go out in the town and install them

1078
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 16: on our bicycles after school. So my brother and I

1079
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 16: that we were fifteen and thirteen at the time, setting

1080
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 16: up email addresses, email but moilboxes, those type of things.

1081
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 3: Pop free, wasn't that you always had to get something

1082
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 3: to do with top three and was it? I I

1083
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 3: can't even remember.

1084
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 16: As MTP and pop three and you had to get

1085
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 16: all those settings and set it up and yeah, I

1086
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 16: diagnosed why it's not working that.

1087
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so good.

1088
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 3: Where were you when all of this was happening. You

1089
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,439
Speaker 3: weren't in Joeburg. You were in puma Langa.

1090
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 16: Yes, in a small town called Fork Trust, So on

1091
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 16: the border of Bazilinadal and Pumalanga.

1092
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 3: Were there many other ISPs then for Trust?

1093
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 2: No? No, no, not many?

1094
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 3: When was this so? Yeah?

1095
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 2: There was? That must have been late nineteen nineties.

1096
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean to a lot of people at

1097
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 3: the time, as strange as it may seem now, the

1098
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 3: Internet was this thing that other people did. Now you're

1099
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 3: bringing the Internet into people's home, you're bringing it on

1100
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 3: your bicycle. I mean, that must have been quite a

1101
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 3: fun thing to do as a young as a younger person.

1102
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was really fun.

1103
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 16: And then luck we were first reselling dial up because

1104
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 16: you couldn't get licenses those days, and then you as

1105
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 16: the telecoms in this we opened up. We took each

1106
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 16: successive step, so we got a van's license, and then

1107
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 16: we got the the S license.

1108
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 3: After that, you're gonna have to tell me what a

1109
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 3: van's license is.

1110
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 16: Yeah, So there were there was like the previous licenses

1111
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 16: which allowed you to resell Talcom's Internet. And then there

1112
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 16: was a famous case with Ultra and Altic and they

1113
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 16: took they took the took the regulator to court, and

1114
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 16: out of that came a e CNS license. And they

1115
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 16: made two types of licenses, a country wide license and

1116
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 16: like a provincial license. And due to some stroke of

1117
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 16: like they said if you were in three provinces or more,

1118
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 16: you'd they'd give you a coverage of a country wide license,

1119
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 16: and if you were only in like less than that,

1120
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 16: you'd only get a province license. Now, if you go

1121
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 16: back to Fortress, your seats on the border of Kazilinatal

1122
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 16: and Puma Langa and just up the road is free state.

1123
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 16: So I think we're probably the smallest ip ever to

1124
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 16: go from Van's license countrywide ECNS license in one step.

1125
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 3: That's amazing, I mean, and just to realize that this

1126
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 3: was the case that you could do it. Yeah, So

1127
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 3: you were at school when things started to change, and

1128
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 3: I presume you were finishing school. Did you have an

1129
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 3: idea as you were finishing school. I don't know how

1130
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 3: your parents felt about you using your bicycles for productive

1131
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 3: Internet purposes, but did you get a sense this is

1132
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 3: what this kind of industry is what you were going

1133
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 3: to do?

1134
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think I knew it was in tech or

1135
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 16: in software actually as well. So I was writing software

1136
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 16: from a young age as well. My dad actually gave

1137
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 16: me a visual Basic three book I think I was twelve,

1138
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 16: and he asked me to write him a stock management

1139
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 16: system for his business. That was a little bit above

1140
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 16: what I was capable of at the time, but yeah,

1141
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 16: I always knew it was tech, and I was actually thinking, Yeah,

1142
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 16: I didn't really ever think of a profession growing up.

1143
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 16: I think there was a time where I wanted to

1144
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 16: become a doctor, but that was very young, and then

1145
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 16: after that I always sort of knew I wanted to

1146
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 16: run my own business.

1147
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 3: And your parents were encouraging. I mean, if they're giving

1148
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 3: you books on basic three and they're they're asking you

1149
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 3: to write it, I presume they weren't asking you to

1150
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 3: write it down by pen there was a computer around.

1151
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 16: Yes, my parents are very encouraging and job that we

1152
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 16: come from a family business in the area. So look,

1153
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 16: I think I learned a lot of just business just

1154
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 16: by osmosis, like the family business.

1155
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 3: I can just imagine. So as you finished school, what

1156
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 3: were you thinking of doing. I mean a lot of

1157
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 3: people in that environment, some people immediately want to go

1158
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 3: and start their business. I'm turning eighteen now, Dad, I'm

1159
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 3: registering it in my name, as some people go and study.

1160
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 3: I don't know if you thought of along those lines.

1161
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 16: Yeah, I was thinking along those lines, but I sort

1162
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 16: of had the choice made for me in a sense.

1163
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 16: So I was in grade eleven and I got a

1164
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 16: letter from the German army and they conscripted me. So

1165
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 16: Germany still had conscription, Yes, and they conscripted me through

1166
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 16: some era in the system in Germany because I can

1167
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 16: speak German, although my grandfather's and raised in Germany.

1168
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 3: And they're the citizenship system through where they call it

1169
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 3: blood but they mean from your parents. Yeah.

1170
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 16: Yeah, so I was born in South Africa and my

1171
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 16: dad as well. Yeah, and I got this letter in Fortrest.

1172
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 16: Turns out was like an error and I could have

1173
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 16: gotten out of it, but I said, no, let's let's

1174
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 16: go after my tric owl. I'll go do my service

1175
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 16: in Germany.

1176
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 2: So wow.

1177
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hate to say it that they might call

1178
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 3: people up again. You know they're looking, I mean people

1179
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 3: thinking aloud about conscription in Germany, which is a big,

1180
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 3: big issue. Okay, So you come back to South Africa

1181
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 3: after that experience. I presume the first thing he did

1182
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 3: was remove the uniform. And now you're running a I mean,

1183
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 3: was your brother already running a business. Were you looking

1184
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 3: at joining him? Did you decide to do your own thing?

1185
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 16: Because so we had we had about ninety clients on

1186
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 16: dialogue subscriptions by the time we left school.

1187
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:51,959
Speaker 2: Just in the area.

1188
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 16: Yeah, and so while I was away, you were sort

1189
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 16: of turning to the customers. And then he went to

1190
01:02:57,840 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 16: England for a year and I was back to then

1191
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 16: I was looking after the customers and then we sort

1192
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 16: of just grew it from there. Moving to an ECNS

1193
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 16: license allowed us to start building our own network, and

1194
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:10,919
Speaker 16: I think that's the big switch. That's where we could

1195
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 16: sort of focus on the actually building an internet company.

1196
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 3: So to do that you would need capital as well,

1197
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 3: and you probably weren't getting it too much from anti

1198
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 3: customers and folks rests, so you've had to get money

1199
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 3: from somewhere. And at the time, you know, I'm always

1200
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 3: interested in in kind of waves of technology, which that

1201
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 3: was AI is the current wave obviously, and you were

1202
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 3: you weren't just taking advantage of it, you were helping

1203
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 3: to drive it. Was it difficult to convince people of

1204
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 3: what you were trying to do. I mean, did your

1205
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 3: bank manager know what on earth you were talking about? Yeah?

1206
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 16: I think banks banks operated a little bit differently those days,

1207
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 16: you know, So we knew you know, the bank manager

1208
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 16: from the running club, you know, and it's a small town,

1209
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 16: so yeah, the the I mean, we we were probably

1210
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 16: the only company in fortiss that asked our bank for

1211
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 16: direct debit facility so that debit people's accounts, and I

1212
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 16: remember that was like such a difficult thing for them

1213
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 16: to arrange for us, but yeah, they were they were

1214
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 16: very supportive.

1215
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 2: And then yeah, we just grew grew it from there.

1216
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 3: When you're scaling up and you're beginning to now have

1217
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 3: your own network, so you get investments and you go

1218
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 3: from there, but you're also now for the first time,

1219
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 3: I presume, dealing with competitors, people who, depending on where

1220
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 3: you are and the geography, people who may be used

1221
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 3: to getting into a bigger market. What was that like,

1222
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 3: because scaling up for a lot of businesses is really hard.

1223
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 16: Yeah, so yeah, I think we took we took quite

1224
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 16: a difficult route there. So we're most of it's all

1225
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 16: just organic growth and we built like this franchise model.

1226
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 16: So we were very fortunate to have some great partners

1227
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 16: in different areas regions in South Africa that we sort

1228
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 16: of they helped us build up the infrastructure and we

1229
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 16: sort of ran support and core network and those type

1230
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 16: of sales services centrally. So we built it up like

1231
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 16: with a network of partners and grew across South Africa

1232
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 16: go that.

1233
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 3: Way, and I mean you are working suddenly with a

1234
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 3: lot of people, and sometimes people are quite difficult. I mean,

1235
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,439
Speaker 3: did you find yourself dealing with problems that you thought, ah,

1236
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 3: it was easier, you know when I was just right

1237
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 3: selling ips?

1238
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, yeah, there was quite adjustment for me.

1239
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 16: I think my brother is more the people person and

1240
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 16: I was much more on the technical side.

1241
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 3: So we had a good partnership that way around. It's

1242
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 3: amazing to see how quickly it grew. What do you

1243
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 3: think helped you to succeed? So obviously you knew what

1244
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 3: you were doing and you would have provided a reliable service.

1245
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 3: Otherwise none of us would ever have worked. But what

1246
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 3: do you think was I mean, was there something you

1247
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 3: were doing that was different? Did you get your pricing right?

1248
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:43,919
Speaker 3: Was there something else?

1249
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 16: Yeah, So we focused on just building our own network,

1250
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 16: so instead of reselling somebody else's service. So we when

1251
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 16: we operated in what's called fixed wireless technology, so we

1252
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 16: built towers and put these radio sectors up, and so

1253
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 16: it's sort of a niche technology and we also a

1254
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 16: niche market, so it's more like rural, smaller towns. We

1255
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 16: didn't focus on the big metropolitan areas, so and then

1256
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 16: we branched out in different African countries, you know, just

1257
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 16: following this niche model, you know, focus on what we're

1258
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:14,920
Speaker 16: really good at.

1259
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 3: And obviously there was a lot of a lot of

1260
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 3: customers for you in smaller towns and everybody wanted to

1261
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 3: be on the Internet. Everybody still does.

1262
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, we are.

1263
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 16: We found our nation in smaller towns, and especially with

1264
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 16: a partner model, you get you know, you just get

1265
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 16: that that distribution and that local presence with a partner

1266
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 16: model that we followed.

1267
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 3: You've recently moved into AI and we're going to talk

1268
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 3: a little bit more about that in a moment. Vernerstucky

1269
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 3: is your shape shift to this week, the CEO of

1270
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:44,480
Speaker 3: Stubba and co founder of Jenny Internet. Twelve minutes NATA, The.

1271
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 10: Money Show with Stephen Quotas is brought to you by

1272
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 10: abs A cib a Pan African bank invested in your

1273
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 10: story and the potential it can unlock, because your story

1274
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 10: matters as as the rest of the FSP The Money Show.

1275
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 3: Shift is Werner Stuckey is the CEO of Stubborn, co

1276
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 3: founder of Jenny Internet. Ten minutes to eighth the time

1277
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 3: so when you did very nicely out of the Internet model,

1278
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 3: you sort of pushed and rode that wave. And you've

1279
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 3: recently more recently moved into sort of AI and you

1280
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 3: have a particular service you arefer to customers, and it's

1281
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 3: about I mean, basically using AI to provide certain services.

1282
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 3: How does that work?

1283
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1284
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 16: So I think there's sort of two main categories that

1285
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 16: I usually put it in, and the one is like

1286
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 16: augmenting the human. So these are like your Gemini CHATGBT,

1287
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 16: really like a tool that somebody's using to like make

1288
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 16: them work better or faster. And what we're doing is

1289
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:43,439
Speaker 16: really the end automational of a particular job or role

1290
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 16: that's sort of mundane task that you can release, like

1291
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:49,920
Speaker 16: some bottlenecks in business, so that we be like like

1292
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 16: completely customer support, like supporting a customer over WhatsApp or

1293
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 16: a web chat channel or email even and just doing

1294
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 16: that whole job role end to end.

1295
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 3: I mean there's some things where I sort of want to,

1296
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 3: you know, communicate with a service provider about something that's

1297
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 3: actually quite simple to fix. Sometimes I do want to

1298
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 3: speak to a human. How complex are the things that

1299
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 3: AI models can now solve?

1300
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 14: Yeah?

1301
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 16: I think that's where like the people are underestimating like

1302
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 16: how well they can solve this. And really the way

1303
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 16: we build it is we just give it the same

1304
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 16: tools that you're giving humans. So we actually give it

1305
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 16: a computer and it uses interfaces like the humans would use,

1306
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 16: and then you give it different tools to like probe.

1307
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 16: If we're building, for example, a customer service agent for

1308
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 16: an ISP, we'll give it exact same tools we give

1309
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 16: the human support agent, so allow it to bing that's

1310
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 16: like a test tool for connectivity. And then we'd give

1311
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 16: it a user name and a log into the support

1312
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 16: PORDL to pick up the customers invoices statements and answer

1313
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 16: them that way. And I think like the best where

1314
01:08:57,320 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 16: the technology is because a lot of people have got

1315
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 16: a bad feeling about chat points. The previous wave of

1316
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 16: chatbots were bolt very differently and people got a really

1317
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 16: bad experience with those. And what I often say is

1318
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 16: like in my previous business and in this business, the

1319
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 16: best technology is invisible. Like your Internet when it just works,

1320
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 16: you never realize that you've got an Internet service provider,

1321
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 16: and that's the best Internet. It's just invisible. And the

1322
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 16: same is with AI agents when you've put them into

1323
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 16: your business. Many of our customers, customers don't realize they

1324
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,719
Speaker 16: speaking to AI. They just feel it's like a friendly

1325
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 16: person on the other end of the email that's helping them,

1326
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 16: you know, with invoice or a query on their account.

1327
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:36,400
Speaker 6: Sure.

1328
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 3: I mean sometimes when I can't tell, I just insert

1329
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 3: a little joke that a human would sort of respond to.

1330
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 3: And I mean I think I think when AI can

1331
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 3: do jokes, that's it. We're done. It's time to go

1332
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 3: and do something else.

1333
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've we've had some crazy stories.

1334
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 16: I mean we had we had a case with one

1335
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 16: of our customers where because our agents also work over

1336
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 16: WhatsApp and they just respond to voice notes and pictures whatever,

1337
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 16: you wouldn't really realize. And the one particular case, the

1338
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 16: customer spoke English but in a very heavy Afrikaance accent.

1339
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 16: I think there was one yard that slipped in somewhere,

1340
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 16: but everything was in English, and the model, the large

1341
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 16: language model, responded in perfect Afrikaans in text, and from

1342
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 16: then all the conversation just continued in Afrikaans, perfect Afrikaans.

1343
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:29,639
Speaker 16: And this person was blown away that the agent couldn't

1344
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 16: do that, could speak to him in Afrikaans. He had

1345
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,600
Speaker 16: no idea. He wasn't speaking to human. I think he

1346
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 16: just thought, Wow, this is brilliant. I got an afrikaance agent.

1347
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 3: Have they made any mistakes, the AI agents? I mean,

1348
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 3: I mean they must, I mean have they got a

1349
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 3: meaning wrong? Misunderstood? Maybe? What's the phrase hallucinated? Yes?

1350
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 16: So hallucination is mostly the fault of the designer or

1351
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 16: the boulder of a system that would be us or

1352
01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 16: our platform, because there's some context missing. There's a context

1353
01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 16: in these cases often where the intelligence comes from, Like

1354
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 16: you could, you know, employ Einstein and put him in

1355
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 16: your business is not going to be very useful unless

1356
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 16: you give him tools and context and a job. You know,

1357
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 16: this is a job, this is what you should do.

1358
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 16: So the other the hallucinations are mostly a result of that.

1359
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 16: But when it comes to the accuracy and the mistakes,

1360
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:24,799
Speaker 16: what you really trying to achieve because these are imprecise problems,

1361
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 16: like the problem doesn't have a precise answer. Yeah, that

1362
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 16: that humans are doing, and so what you're really trying

1363
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 16: to achieve is just is your accuracy as high or

1364
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 16: better than humans? There will be mistakes, but is it

1365
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 16: as high or better than what your humans are And

1366
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:41,520
Speaker 16: that has been achieving in my opinion.

1367
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I suppose that's a very interesting way to look

1368
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 3: at it. So, so how do you see the future

1369
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 3: of a iron work? And I mean so many people

1370
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:53,799
Speaker 3: have said twenty twenty six is the year this company

1371
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,560
Speaker 3: will properly and I kind of want to yawn, But

1372
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 3: how do you see sort of what happens to work

1373
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:02,839
Speaker 3: in an era of AI?

1374
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 16: So I think that's more on sort of that like

1375
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 16: augmenting the human side of AI. So what we're doing

1376
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 16: is like just the you know, getting rid of mundane desks,

1377
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 16: and you know, some people say, look, that's you know,

1378
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,679
Speaker 16: isn't that taking away jobs? But really I think it's

1379
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:21,640
Speaker 16: it's going to unleash people to do better things. I

1380
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 16: don't think that it's going to take away jobs. I

1381
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 16: think it's just going to there's so much slack, so

1382
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:29,839
Speaker 16: much stuff that's not done in these large organizations. Especially Yeah,

1383
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 16: that if you can just get drun rid of that

1384
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 16: bottleneck of the mundane work, which AI is great at.

1385
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 16: You know, often say it's AI gives you diligence at

1386
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 16: scale for for for these mundane tasks, because like after

1387
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 16: the third time a human is doing the exact same

1388
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 16: stuff getting bored. AI is just you know, the same

1389
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 16: thing over and over. It just keeps keeps at it too.

1390
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 16: So I hear that argument, and I think, I think

1391
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 16: that must be right. In the same way that you

1392
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 16: know and iPhone does so many things for you and

1393
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 16: created so many industries along the way. I do worry

1394
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 16: because most people's first jobs were mundane and what they

1395
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 16: were actually doing was, yes, they were being bored and

1396
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:13,839
Speaker 16: complaining about it, but they were also in a working

1397
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:17,599
Speaker 16: environment and soaking up knowledge. At the same time, they

1398
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 16: were watching people do things that were less than mundane,

1399
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 16: or they were really learning an industry about what to do,

1400
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:26,960
Speaker 16: and some thing's not mundane. How worried should I be

1401
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:30,679
Speaker 16: about younger people in particular? Yeah, so that's the one

1402
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:32,720
Speaker 16: that's that's a difficut question. I've also thought about it.

1403
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 16: I don't think I've really got an answer for how

1404
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 16: do you get, you know, the people across that gap,

1405
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:41,520
Speaker 16: because that even in the job and the job opening statistics,

1406
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 16: that's showing right that those entry level jobs are now

1407
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 16: drying up first. So I think there are going to

1408
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 16: be some tough periods that we're going to have to

1409
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 16: go through, but I think we'll figure it out.

1410
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 3: I mean, the only solutions I can see are kind

1411
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 3: of jobs and sort of NGOs or things like that,

1412
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,440
Speaker 3: or that everybody studies for even longer than they are already,

1413
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 3: or some combination of those things that gets them over

1414
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 3: that hump.

1415
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think otherwise, you know, maybe we should just

1416
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:11,600
Speaker 16: skip the them having them do mundane, mundane jobs and

1417
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 16: just let them do creative jobs all the way. Because, like,

1418
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 16: if you go back to like the augmenting the human pot,

1419
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 16: I think your previous guest as well was mentioning some

1420
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 16: of the tools. And what I often say to people

1421
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 16: is that people that are worried about AI doing art

1422
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:27,639
Speaker 16: and AI doing poem and writing and that, but actually

1423
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 16: what it's doing is just divorcing, you know, skill and creativity.

1424
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 16: Because now you know, I can think of like this

1425
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 16: beautiful info diagram that I want to yeah, produce, but

1426
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:38,559
Speaker 16: I don't have a skill to produce it.

1427
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 2: With AI.

1428
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 16: Now if I can articulate myself, I can get the

1429
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 16: diagram out.

1430
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,599
Speaker 2: So maybe we should just let everybody just decreative stuff.

1431
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 3: M Then there's a tradition on the shape shifter segment

1432
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 3: that we ask someone what they do for fun, but

1433
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 3: it comes with the rule. It comes with two rules.

1434
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:54,639
Speaker 3: You're not allowed to say anything related to your work

1435
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 3: and you're not allowed to say jogging and spending time

1436
01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 3: with your family because so many people give those answers.

1437
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 3: Is anything you do for fun?

1438
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:07,679
Speaker 16: So, Stephen, I'm actually the the Africa Championship, Africa champion

1439
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 16: for one wheeling really, yes, and.

1440
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 3: So one wheeling it's like a unicycle.

1441
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 16: That's like a unicycle, yes, and so how did you

1442
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:18,440
Speaker 16: get to do that?

1443
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 3: They taught you in the German.

1444
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 16: So so I hosted the championship and five of my

1445
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 16: friends attended and there was no one else in in

1446
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 16: Africa really that has one of these, Right, that's advantage

1447
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 16: of having a niche.

1448
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 2: Sport that you're good at. Yes.

1449
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 16: So it's like an electric electric skateboard you with one

1450
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 16: wheel in the middle. Yeah, it goes about kilimeters on

1451
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 16: a charge, a lot of fun. I hosted it in

1452
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 16: a forest in Celari's boss and uh one. I think

1453
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:52,120
Speaker 16: that does answer your question, Bernard Stuckey, it does. He's

1454
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:55,040
Speaker 16: a champion. I don't even know what to call it,

1455
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 16: not uni cyclist, single wall thing. He's the CEO of

1456
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 16: and he's the co founder of Jenny Internet Fanna, thanks

1457
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:02,439
Speaker 16: so much for coming in.

1458
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:06,679
Speaker 10: The Money Show with Stephen Quotas is brought to you

1459
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 10: by abs as cib a Pan African bank invested in

1460
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:13,720
Speaker 10: your story and the potential it can unlock because your

1461
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 10: story matters.

1462
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 9: APPS is a.

1463
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:19,759
Speaker 3: Richter fsp Well. After a very strong open in the US,

1464
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 3: things turning a little bit differently. The Dow jones up

1465
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 3: point zero to the Nastaic down point zero eight ps

1466
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:29,240
Speaker 3: and P five hundred down point one three. That interest

1467
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 3: rate decision from the US Federal Reserve is still to come.

1468
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 3: We're back tomorrow. Good evening, it's eight o'clock