1
00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:05,560
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Credits on seven

2
00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:05,960
Speaker 1: oh two.

3
00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:07,440
Speaker 2: Let's walk little.

4
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:09,799
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

5
00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,640
Speaker 3: by Abscess CIB proud host of the Africa Impact Matters

6
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 3: series podcast Absurus and authorized FSP and registered credit provider.

7
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,720
Speaker 3: Good evening, Welcome to the program. I'm Stephen Curtis. Nine

8
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,880
Speaker 3: minutes after six a time. Well, an important day for

9
00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 3: celse they listed. You'll hear from their CEO in a

10
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,200
Speaker 3: couple of moments, as George Mendez. Important conversations of course

11
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,040
Speaker 3: around the future of the prepaid market and what cell

12
00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,080
Speaker 3: phones their whole business is going to look like. In

13
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,960
Speaker 3: South Africa. Peter Warton Hoods, the CEO of the Life

14
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,560
Speaker 3: Healthcare Group. They had quite strong results today, spending a

15
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,480
Speaker 3: lot of money on Capex. You'll hear from him too.

16
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,839
Speaker 3: We'll also look ahead to Black Friday. I have to

17
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,560
Speaker 3: say two things about Black Friday. The first is there's

18
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,800
Speaker 3: no better day for someone to try and steal money

19
00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 3: from you. It happened to me last year. I was

20
00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 3: lucky enough to get it back. Just was money taken

21
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,680
Speaker 3: out of my credit cardictut Just if I were you.

22
00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,679
Speaker 3: A couple of times tomorrow and then again on Saturday morning.

23
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,679
Speaker 3: Just do a quick check. Just have a quick look,

24
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,960
Speaker 3: make sure you haven't lost anything. Go into your credit

25
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,880
Speaker 3: card account, go into your normal accounts. Just make sure

26
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:13,759
Speaker 3: that money hasn't been taken. If they're going to go,

27
00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,040
Speaker 3: tomorrow is a very good day for them to try.

28
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,400
Speaker 3: That would be the first thing. The second thing is

29
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,880
Speaker 3: I would like to hear from you if you ever

30
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,959
Speaker 3: actually had a good deal on a Black Friday. Did

31
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,560
Speaker 3: you park outside a shopping center at four o'clock in

32
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,559
Speaker 3: the morning and get the big TV? Did you do

33
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,600
Speaker 3: something else? Did you, I don't know, get a good

34
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,080
Speaker 3: bicycle or a good cell phone or something, or maybe

35
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,399
Speaker 3: you just got something even more interesting than that, the

36
00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,039
Speaker 3: best deal you ever got on a Black Friday? Please

37
00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,280
Speaker 3: on O seven to seven oh two one seven oh two,

38
00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,759
Speaker 3: and talking of Black Friday investments school, tonight we will

39
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 3: talk about share discounts, which is about as close to

40
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,440
Speaker 3: a Black Friday as I could manage to get. Investments school.

41
00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,400
Speaker 3: Good to hear from you tonight on a double one

42
00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 3: DOAA three oh seven two two one four four six

43
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 3: O five six seven, And of course you've wid your

44
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,960
Speaker 3: best Black Friday Ideals on seven two seven O two

45
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,160
Speaker 3: one seven O two.

46
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,520
Speaker 4: The Money Show with Stephen Kruders live on ninety two

47
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,960
Speaker 4: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

48
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 4: Media Plus.

49
00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 2: Naven and DStv channel eight five.

50
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 3: Six Well Life Healthcare reporting it's normalized earnings per share

51
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,519
Speaker 3: up by over ten percent in the air to the

52
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,360
Speaker 3: end of September. The group also expanding it's been able

53
00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,120
Speaker 3: to increase its paid patient days. Peter Wharton Hood's the

54
00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 3: CEO of the Life Healthcare Group, Peter good evening, your

55
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,960
Speaker 3: paid patient days are up by one point one percent,

56
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,359
Speaker 3: your occupancy US hire at sixty nine point seven percent.

57
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 3: Do you believe you'll be able to increase those metrics

58
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 3: still further?

59
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 5: Yes, Stephen, we do. We've got some ambitious plans which

60
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 5: we which we guarded the market to in our outlook statement,

61
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,760
Speaker 5: to make further investments in infrastructure, recruit doctors and that's

62
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,919
Speaker 5: how you drive improvements in volume. It's about having more

63
00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,840
Speaker 5: facilities and more specialist doctors with a mission privileges to

64
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:01,640
Speaker 5: your hospitals.

65
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,959
Speaker 3: You're investing in particular areas, in fact two and a

66
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,120
Speaker 3: half billion rand on capex. Where are you spending that money?

67
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:09,919
Speaker 3: Where is that where do you think this growth is

68
00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,040
Speaker 3: going to come geographically and by sort of sector.

69
00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,880
Speaker 5: One of the bigger commitments that this group has made

70
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,760
Speaker 5: in the last ten years, in actual fact, it's the

71
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,360
Speaker 5: first new build hospital in a decade for Life Healthcare

72
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,600
Speaker 5: is in Life Parle Valley, jacent to the the in

73
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,800
Speaker 5: the Parle Valley Frontshook area. That will be one hundred

74
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,960
Speaker 5: and forty beds initially, but we're building the underlying infrastructure

75
00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 5: to Kateter hopefully one day for two two hundred and

76
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,280
Speaker 5: fifty beds, which is a really big hospital. We then

77
00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:47,040
Speaker 5: got a selection of existing facility expansion opportunities. During the

78
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,360
Speaker 5: course of the year, we will add a further eighty

79
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:54,040
Speaker 5: nine beds through a number of our different hospitals spread

80
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,520
Speaker 5: around the country. We're adding a cat lab in Mount Edgecombe.

81
00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 5: We're adding a new vascular lab in Life Light Rose Park.

82
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,520
Speaker 5: We expanding our complementary services of cute rehabilitation beds, renal stations,

83
00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:11,640
Speaker 5: pet TT sites and the psychotron investment that we made

84
00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,840
Speaker 5: some time ago going online in mid Rand during the

85
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:20,840
Speaker 5: course of Q two. So it's where the opportunities are

86
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,800
Speaker 5: that we are specifically following them. Were concious its geographically concentrated.

87
00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:25,840
Speaker 5: It's pretty diverse.

88
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,880
Speaker 3: I mean, clearly, you see a lot of room for growth.

89
00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 3: You see a middle class that will be able to

90
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:32,600
Speaker 3: afford your services.

91
00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,360
Speaker 5: We also see a competitive boundaries being stretched. By investing

92
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,400
Speaker 5: in these specific areas, we are able to attract patients

93
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:47,160
Speaker 5: into our facilities. The domain of improvements in the economic

94
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 5: circumstances and growth in the insurance market is a long

95
00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,240
Speaker 5: shot at the moments, Steven, Lots of other things outside

96
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,039
Speaker 5: of our control need to take place for that to happen.

97
00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 5: We remain optimistic that the private healthcare market will grow

98
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,320
Speaker 5: in due course, but for the moment, in a flat market,

99
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,440
Speaker 5: we think that making smart investments in the right places

100
00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 5: is the way for us to grow our share slightly disproportionately.

101
00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,159
Speaker 3: You want to recruit one hundred and forty new specialists,

102
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,760
Speaker 3: and I presume you mean specialist doctors, and I mean

103
00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,720
Speaker 3: one of the perennial stories in South Africa has been

104
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,080
Speaker 3: we'll have a shortage of doctors, specially specialists. Are you

105
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,360
Speaker 3: finding that specialists? Are you able to find them? Are

106
00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,640
Speaker 3: they happy to stay in South Africa and work for

107
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:27,960
Speaker 3: groups like yours?

108
00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 5: Absolutely? I think the myth that we slayed about a

109
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,800
Speaker 5: year back was this constant discussion that specialist doctors are

110
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,919
Speaker 5: emigrating from South Africa is just not true in that

111
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,040
Speaker 5: if I get my mats correct, Stephen, the stat to

112
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,760
Speaker 5: the end of September of twenty twenty four, which is

113
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,000
Speaker 5: the one that I can still recall, of the doctors

114
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 5: that left the platform, I think seven of those were

115
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,040
Speaker 5: immigrations and three of those returned within six months, so

116
00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:01,960
Speaker 5: it's this very very small number. A worry, however, is

117
00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 5: young doctors not specialized, not getting chances to specialize in

118
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,080
Speaker 5: South Africa. That's the longer term worry for the country.

119
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,800
Speaker 5: And what we do there is we have committed to

120
00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,880
Speaker 5: close to half a billion round over nine years to

121
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,200
Speaker 5: actually fund the training of specialist positions so that we

122
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 5: are also making the contribution to society because with our specialists,

123
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,159
Speaker 5: we don't we don't have a business. So it's the

124
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,600
Speaker 5: lifeblood of our business and we take it very very seriously.

125
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,839
Speaker 3: We've seen various groups opposing the introduction of a national

126
00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,680
Speaker 3: health insurance system and it seems to me, and this

127
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,280
Speaker 3: would be my view, Beet, and I'm going to ask

128
00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,440
Speaker 3: you if you agree with it. It would seem to

129
00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,480
Speaker 3: me that the prospect of an NHI has probably receded

130
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,279
Speaker 3: over the last year, if you go back to where

131
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,520
Speaker 3: we were before the election, was possibly more likely than

132
00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 3: it is now. I could be wrong on that. Would

133
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,279
Speaker 3: you agree with that or do you see it differently?

134
00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 5: Well, it's certainly subject to so many challenges and contests

135
00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,280
Speaker 5: from legal perspective that the road lights, however it may

136
00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 5: have been planned, has been significantly hampered. Life healthcare stance

137
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 5: is not to lead to confrontation. We've held a widespread

138
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,920
Speaker 5: belief that the ultimate ambition statement to deliver quality, accessible

139
00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,440
Speaker 5: healthcare to South Africans, and no decent human and certainly

140
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,920
Speaker 5: no hospital operator would argue with that as a statement

141
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,320
Speaker 5: of intent. The challenge over from a life health care perspective,

142
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,720
Speaker 5: we just didn't agree with the way that the government

143
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 5: introduced the concept and we didn't agree with the plan

144
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,320
Speaker 5: that they had in place because we advocated in the

145
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 5: parliamentary hearings for a building block approach. Let's train more doctors,

146
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,080
Speaker 5: let's train more nurses. Let's upgrade and revitalize the state

147
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,720
Speaker 5: facility health care facilities that are already in existence. Let's

148
00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,440
Speaker 5: get improve hospital management in place, and let's find a

149
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 5: way of collaborating so that private actually plays a role

150
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,920
Speaker 5: in this improvement for all of South Africa. And as

151
00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 5: you can see and have heard, that's hardly how the

152
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,480
Speaker 5: discussions of God, it's been all about financing and it's

153
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,800
Speaker 5: all about being court in battle and nothing tangible has

154
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,800
Speaker 5: actually taken place. Peter, I think there's a lot of

155
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,600
Speaker 5: water to PLI under the bridges, even lots to go.

156
00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it would seem so, Peter Wartenhood, thank you,

157
00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,080
Speaker 3: CEO for the Life Healthcare Group. Seventeen after six.

158
00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,720
Speaker 2: The Money Show on seven Notes.

159
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 3: Monday to Friday, six to eight pm, well Selsea listening today.

160
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 3: It's share price opening at thirty six round fifty. They

161
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 3: went up by about a rand to share by the closed,

162
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,840
Speaker 3: meaning that the company's valued are just over nine billion rand.

163
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,080
Speaker 3: There had been an initial valuation from Blue Label ahead

164
00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,800
Speaker 3: of the listing at around twelve billion rand. The CEO

165
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 3: at celca as George Mendez Y George, good evening, Congratulations

166
00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 3: on the listing. Firstly, how do you feel about the valuation?

167
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,680
Speaker 3: I imagine, like any CEO, you might have wanted it

168
00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:45,439
Speaker 3: to be a bit higher.

169
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, thanks very much an exciting day for us. But yes,

170
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 6: the factor of many things when you talk about the

171
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 6: starting valuation, So would we have preferred a higher number,

172
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,640
Speaker 6: I think certainly. But given all the data equity conversion

173
00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,280
Speaker 6: instruments and we created a performance a consolidated view of

174
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,880
Speaker 6: the assets we've taken, it made it a little bit

175
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,680
Speaker 6: tricky for investors. So well, perhaps you haven't got enough

176
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,319
Speaker 6: of a track record in the new format for the

177
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,079
Speaker 6: valuation to be higher, But we okay with it. We're

178
00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 6: perfectly comfortable. I think now it's only got an upside

179
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:17,560
Speaker 6: from it from our point of view.

180
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,280
Speaker 3: You've had a difficult time obviously for various reasons. I

181
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 3: know that you believe so Elsie as a very compelling

182
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 3: investment case. Why do you believe it's going to make

183
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:28,960
Speaker 3: money in the future?

184
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 6: Yeh, thank you. We certainly believe that. Our Kapex Light model,

185
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 6: we've pioneered a new network strategy, so we reckon that

186
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,120
Speaker 6: if you've got physical infrastructure, there's going to be some

187
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,800
Speaker 6: consolidation that takes place. And the model that we've gone

188
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,439
Speaker 6: after is a kapex light model. So we've got a

189
00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,200
Speaker 6: virtual radio access network, we buy access and a sphere

190
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,000
Speaker 6: capacity from MTN and Votcom in terms of great partnerships

191
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,760
Speaker 6: that we've got with them, and that gives us access

192
00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,040
Speaker 6: to twenty eight thousand radio base stations, where within we

193
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,160
Speaker 6: have five five hundred of our own. We also use

194
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,480
Speaker 6: a dual multi operator core network strategy which allows us

195
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,839
Speaker 6: to move traffic between the two. But importantly, I mean

196
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,079
Speaker 6: having another base station next to three or four existing

197
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,480
Speaker 6: good base stations doesn't seem logical when you look at

198
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,920
Speaker 6: market consolidations. So there's no secret at market consolidation will

199
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,160
Speaker 6: happen in future, and we think the first phase of

200
00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,719
Speaker 6: these are infrastructure consolidation, so that technology strategy is a

201
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,040
Speaker 6: very different one. We also have a platform for growth.

202
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,199
Speaker 6: We've got four engines. We think we'll do well in

203
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,040
Speaker 6: prepaid new products and propositions, distribution channels on the back

204
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,679
Speaker 6: of a good quality network. Post bed business that we

205
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,560
Speaker 6: required back now from CC an enterprise business that's got

206
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,400
Speaker 6: lots of upside and opportunity off a very low base,

207
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,320
Speaker 6: and now mb and O business has got great partnerships

208
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,640
Speaker 6: and that's growing really really nicely, and it gets us

209
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,000
Speaker 6: to market segments that we haven't reached before.

210
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,040
Speaker 3: Okay, so all of that may be true, but it's

211
00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,439
Speaker 3: also growing more competitive. I mean, telcome's clearly taking prepaid

212
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,440
Speaker 3: customers from VOTERICOM and MTN, and I imagine, I mean

213
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 3: most of your customers are prepaid. I imagine they give

214
00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:06,960
Speaker 3: use of competition as well.

215
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,320
Speaker 6: Absolutely, I think Telcom have been a great competitor. They've

216
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,199
Speaker 6: done very well twelve quarters in a row, and I

217
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 6: think they're running a phenomenal business. We have seen some

218
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,760
Speaker 6: contraction by the other two players in prepaid. From a

219
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,200
Speaker 6: revenue point of view, we think we'll be able to

220
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,880
Speaker 6: go positive. So we think we've got a growth story

221
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,600
Speaker 6: coming off a lower base. We've got exciting opportunities and

222
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,360
Speaker 6: propositions for a customer centric organization, so we think we'll

223
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,760
Speaker 6: be able to take some share there. We also very

224
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,720
Speaker 6: lean and agile organization. Were only nine hundred people, so

225
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,480
Speaker 6: a strong partnership model on how to get to market.

226
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,440
Speaker 6: So it's compelling and so far we see decent results

227
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,240
Speaker 6: and we think it's at the beginning of an our story.

228
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,480
Speaker 3: You make the point that you don't have capital expenditure, fine,

229
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:51,839
Speaker 3: it makes you very flexible. There's a lot you can

230
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 3: do with that. It does mean though, that you depend

231
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,520
Speaker 3: literally for your very existence on MTN and Votericon. Are

232
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 3: those still comfortable relationships? I realize there are quite a

233
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 3: few pluses for them, but your business still does depend

234
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,520
Speaker 3: in the end on your relationships with rivals.

235
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,000
Speaker 6: We do believe that there's going to be a consolidation,

236
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,200
Speaker 6: and infrastructure consolidation helps in many many ways. We even

237
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,880
Speaker 6: believe that between the two main competitors there'll be a consolidation.

238
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,280
Speaker 6: You've seen it already with some of the passive elements

239
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,520
Speaker 6: of the network. It's going more to the active side

240
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,360
Speaker 6: of the network. So as long as there's one operator

241
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,040
Speaker 6: at least in the sector too preferably, we think we've

242
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,080
Speaker 6: got a business model because I really don't believe that

243
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,640
Speaker 6: the future game is about only the mobile base stations.

244
00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,920
Speaker 6: I think there'll be consolidation at different levels. We own

245
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,720
Speaker 6: a spectrum, we're going to own core, so we've got

246
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,440
Speaker 6: all the other aspects except the physical towers of a

247
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,160
Speaker 6: full mobile network operator. And in future, when you look

248
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,000
Speaker 6: at LEO so low Earth orbit satellites, who knows how

249
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,040
Speaker 6: much traffic that will carry compared to terrestrial versus the

250
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,760
Speaker 6: non terrestrial spectrum. So maybe still structures in the future.

251
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,800
Speaker 6: I don't say the opposite lead altogether, but they become

252
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,120
Speaker 6: less of a dependency when it comes to infrastructure. So

253
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 6: we think we were positioning ourselves for where the future

254
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:07,920
Speaker 6: is growing.

255
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,640
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean a lot of things are going to change.

256
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,720
Speaker 3: That'll mean there's going to be a lot of pressure

257
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,720
Speaker 3: on you. As all of these things change, they're more

258
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,320
Speaker 3: and more ways to communicate. You're going have to say

259
00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 3: very much on the ball. I'm not saying that you

260
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,160
Speaker 3: can't do that. I'm just saying, in a way, your

261
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 3: entire business model is going to rely to an extent

262
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 3: on your rivals and then saying one step ahead of

263
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 3: the game. And the game includes some very good players.

264
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 6: Absolutely, I think that's what keeps you sharp and focused.

265
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,280
Speaker 6: You've got good competition. I think we're leading the pack

266
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,280
Speaker 6: when it comes to our MV and O strategy. We're

267
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,080
Speaker 6: going after market segments with very good partners. We've done

268
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,280
Speaker 6: so intentionally and deliberately. We're probably the only partner that

269
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,679
Speaker 6: has done so intentionally and deliberately, and that's got some

270
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:54,199
Speaker 6: good growth. We've already put out through this roadshow process

271
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,559
Speaker 6: that four point seven million customers on our MV and

272
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,839
Speaker 6: O platform in terms of the HLR player form is

273
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 6: a sizable number, and we think it's at the beginning

274
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,760
Speaker 6: of a very good growth story. So it's different than

275
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 6: it arrives at the market through a strong partnership model.

276
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:10,959
Speaker 6: So if you think of if we want to go

277
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,800
Speaker 6: off a particular segment, we could either build a proposition

278
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,760
Speaker 6: ourselves and give it a name and fund it, or

279
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,120
Speaker 6: you partner very deeply with the kind of partners that

280
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,840
Speaker 6: we have and you get to that market segment quite quickly.

281
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 6: And given our P and L structure, so we don't

282
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 6: have no CAPEX which is CAPEX light, we still spend

283
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,240
Speaker 6: between six fifty and eight hundred million, is the guidance

284
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,640
Speaker 6: we've given on systems, etc. That are largely customer facing.

285
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,000
Speaker 6: We've revamped seventy stores, so the money goes into the

286
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,680
Speaker 6: customer facing stuff. But we do believe that we've got

287
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 6: a really good positioning for the market, albeit it with

288
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,040
Speaker 6: a very strong competition.

289
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,440
Speaker 3: Most of your customers are prepaid. Do you think that's

290
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,360
Speaker 3: going to be the basis that we're offering for a

291
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 3: long time? I mean, within all of these changes, is

292
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,640
Speaker 3: it still going to be prepaid, which is where most

293
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:57,880
Speaker 3: of your customers will come from.

294
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,280
Speaker 6: It's the biggest rand value and it's the biggest revenue generator.

295
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:04,680
Speaker 3: Today.

296
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 6: We think that's changing. It will still be large, but

297
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,000
Speaker 6: if you look at the disproportionate growth, for sure, mv

298
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 6: ando growth will be disproportionate. Enterprise at a percentage level

299
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 6: will be very high. Given we're coming off a low base.

300
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,440
Speaker 6: We haven't participated in public sector business for a long

301
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,680
Speaker 6: long time as self. We've got some really great partners

302
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,440
Speaker 6: that we've signed up, so that's boding well in terms

303
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 6: of percentage revenue growth or for low rand value. And

304
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,440
Speaker 6: then our post paid business we've been fixing and part

305
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,800
Speaker 6: of the debt to equity conversion instruments that we used

306
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,880
Speaker 6: as part of this process was to acquire a CEC

307
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 6: communication equipment company back from Blue Label, which is effectively

308
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,440
Speaker 6: the post paid handset financing business. So we will run

309
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 6: that post pat business, and we think given that that

310
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,320
Speaker 6: business has been in decline for a number of years,

311
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,040
Speaker 6: we've now stabilized that and it's got some significant upside.

312
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 6: We have channels, as an example, distribution channel that we've.

313
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:01,080
Speaker 3: Never had before.

314
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,640
Speaker 6: So if you take I Store, we were the only

315
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,240
Speaker 6: network not integrated, then that's a high value segment customer base,

316
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,400
Speaker 6: a number of new tariff fans, so we think we

317
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,240
Speaker 6: will position for regaining some share in that space as well.

318
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 3: George Mende is the CEO of sel C, Thanks very much. Indeed,

319
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,800
Speaker 3: the Money Show the market Governor's portfolio manager at Rand

320
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 3: Swiss House of I mean CELSE, I don't know, maybe

321
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,120
Speaker 3: it was just me, but a sense of disappointment with

322
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 3: the valuation, perhaps.

323
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,640
Speaker 7: Yes, a slight disappointment. They were hoping for a little

324
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 7: bit of higher price, so it came on, you know,

325
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 7: little at the lower end of expectations. So look, it's

326
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,840
Speaker 7: kind of polling stable there, but you know, who knows

327
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,120
Speaker 7: how much of that is, like, you know, just the

328
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 7: kind of winterwestimating at the start of the listing. In

329
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,120
Speaker 7: terms of the actual you know, business going forward, it's

330
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 7: obviously a very competitive space and this is by far

331
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 7: the smallest player that's listed in the space at the moment.

332
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,360
Speaker 3: And I mean that prepaid competition is going to be relentless.

333
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,480
Speaker 3: Telcome is bringing a lot of pressure on MTN Veroticom

334
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 3: and CELSCEA must be feeling that.

335
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,639
Speaker 7: Oh yes, well certainly. Look, I think the overall sector

336
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,959
Speaker 7: is likely to grow up in valuation over the next

337
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:09,719
Speaker 7: little while because of the fact that you know, as

338
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 7: a comes into play, we're likely to see an increased

339
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 7: in demand for data usage. But in terms of the

340
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 7: you know, what's going to be required for that. You

341
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,199
Speaker 7: are going to be acquiring are capacity and you need

342
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,119
Speaker 7: be kind of capital to invest in that. So I

343
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:24,639
Speaker 7: don't know if that's going to be something that the

344
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,280
Speaker 7: CELTSI is going to be able to compete in those

345
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,880
Speaker 7: of the bigger votcoms eventel comes out there.

346
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,879
Speaker 3: Life healthcare, their profits are up quite nicely. They're obviously

347
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,640
Speaker 3: very confident about the future as well.

348
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,119
Speaker 7: Yeah. Look, I mean obviously asking some popularity in South Africa,

349
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 7: which is obviously something to be you know, looks at favorably.

350
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 7: They did have a significant you know, accounting mass that

351
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,719
Speaker 7: they had to push through and that obviously did affect them.

352
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,640
Speaker 7: But yeah, they are things, like I said, the positivity

353
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 7: in South Africa, and.

354
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 3: I mean it seems to me there was a time

355
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,920
Speaker 3: when I thought maybe the NHI was going to threaten

356
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 3: some of the private healthcare groups. For the moment. If

357
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 3: you look at their figures, look at net K yesterday,

358
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 3: they've probably got a long way before the NHI comes

359
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 3: even close to them.

360
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,199
Speaker 7: Yes, I mean, look at we're having obviously look at

361
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,399
Speaker 7: the government to trying to you know, do what it

362
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 7: does in following procesures and so on, and you know

363
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,639
Speaker 7: that kind of moves slower than a government implementation especially

364
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 7: I think as big as in Hime. So we need

365
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 7: to basically you know, obviously accept that become in the future.

366
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 7: But at the moment, you know, these companies plus seeing

367
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 7: an opportunity for business and Stuartricta.

368
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 3: Sobo Sun had results out today there are only one percent.

369
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, look it's been a bit of a bad deal

370
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,920
Speaker 7: for the company. I look moving towards more online you

371
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 7: know it's gambling, you know the online gampling space at

372
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 7: this stuff. Uh, if it's an interest industry overall in

373
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 7: terms of like it's effect on the overall economy, it's

374
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,639
Speaker 7: short term positive if it is that you know, generation

375
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 7: of activity as well as in terms of what's been

376
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 7: happening with regards to tax collection et cetera, and in

377
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,400
Speaker 7: fact the governments to get actually you know taxing there.

378
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,879
Speaker 7: But you know you look at them, well how in

379
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 7: a metal health as well in the US? Uh, you great,

380
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 7: when are like gambling is introduced.

381
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 3: Then I'm just going to ask you to move around

382
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,640
Speaker 3: a little bit of strengthen the signal on your cell phone.

383
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 3: US markets closed today, it's Black Friday, It's Black Friday,

384
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 3: it's it's Thanksgiving. I should say Black Friday tomorrow. Google's

385
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 3: had a really interesting week as a Gemini issue, and

386
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,240
Speaker 3: then of course there's that deal around AI chips with Meta.

387
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,359
Speaker 3: Suddenly Google's looking very very strong again.

388
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 7: Yeah. Look, I mean a couple of years ago we

389
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 7: had calls for such an a del sounded for child

390
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 7: to resign because they thought she might have been missing

391
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,400
Speaker 7: the AI. You can up raised such an a deeala

392
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 7: with Microsoft was alviously it's got one of the guys

393
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 7: in Mills spaces actually leading the space with the open

394
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 7: air and so on. But let's not forget that Google

395
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 7: is the company that should created the AA technology that

396
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,439
Speaker 7: other people are using. It has, you know, it's called

397
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 7: fingers way more sup creation with the TPS. Obviously, it

398
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 7: has a bit of probably database of data that any

399
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 7: company in the world would like to for instance, Gmail

400
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 7: as well as YouTube, which is kind of using at

401
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 7: the moment, so they always had a huge advantage. It's

402
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 7: just kind of getting on the ong way, and I

403
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 7: think what's happened last week is they kind of taketting

404
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 7: more seriously, the one day for the company is affected.

405
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 7: The filth, which is the probably the most positable single,

406
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 7: is like to be canibalized by going forward verb.

407
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 3: I'm afraid we are losing you on that line. Thank you,

408
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 3: Viv Governor, his portfolio manager at rans Swiss, in a

409
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,479
Speaker 3: couple of moments more on and nearly said Thanksgiving more

410
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 3: on Black Friday, just what to expect tomorrow. It might

411
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,959
Speaker 3: just be me, maybe the advertising is no longer following

412
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,680
Speaker 3: me around on the interweb or something. I just don't

413
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 3: seem to see as much of a buzz or feel

414
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 3: as much of a buzz about Black Friday as I did,

415
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 3: say last year, or perhaps even the year before. I

416
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,639
Speaker 3: don't know how you're feeling about it. But also, your

417
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 3: best Friday, Black Friday deal that you've ever had so far?

418
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 3: On seven two seven two one seven o two just

419
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 3: on six thirty, what's up to Stephen?

420
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 2: On seven two seven oh two one.

421
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,400
Speaker 3: Seven question tonight the best Black Friday deal you ever got?

422
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 3: And you can't say you got married on Black Friday? Hey,

423
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:18,160
Speaker 3: Stephen has to going Ryan.

424
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, So a couple years ago a Black Friday, voter

425
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 8: Com had a really good deal for their home fiber

426
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 8: and I was like four nineteen nine.

427
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 3: It was stupid.

428
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 8: So I signed a contract and I just haven't renewed that.

429
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 8: You try to upgrade me. I'm like, thanks, no, thanks,

430
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 8: I keep pent them on because the contract on that

431
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 8: Black Friday was there was no terms in terms of ads,

432
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 8: and it's been a blessing to be able to just

433
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 8: pay very little for very good insets.

434
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 6: So yeah, thank you.

435
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 3: Black Fights. Is that the first time in recorded human

436
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 3: history that a customer has got one over a cell

437
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,640
Speaker 3: phone network of some description in any way? I don't

438
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 3: know if that's ever happened before. That actually happens that

439
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 3: they didn't read the fine print. I think we need

440
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 3: to mark this day. We need to get the historians

441
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 3: on it, because it just never happens. Your best Black

442
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 3: Friday deal seven two seven two one seven O two

443
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 3: seven two with.

444
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 2: Stephen Email him on Stephen at seven O two dot

445
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 2: co dot.

446
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 3: Eddy eighteen minutes now to seven the time or Black

447
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,679
Speaker 3: Friday tomorrow. Just a reminder if you really do need

448
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 3: to keep an eye on your bank account tomorrow. It's

449
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 3: a very good day for people to try and steal

450
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 3: from you. I just don't feel the same buzz here,

451
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 3: the same kind of noise around Black Friday this year

452
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 3: than I did last year. Maybe I'm gone blind or something.

453
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 3: Connea is the research director at for Cheezy Research, Connie,

454
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 3: Good evening.

455
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 7: Is it just me?

456
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 3: Was Black Friday not got the same buzzes last year?

457
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 9: Good evening, Stephen, thank you so much for having me

458
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 9: on here. So you are absolutely all feeling it. You're

459
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 9: not the only one that's not feeling the hype and excitement,

460
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 9: and it is actually a general consensus, and it's quite

461
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 9: interesting the evolution if you think about when Black Friday

462
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 9: was first introduced to as the South African and how

463
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 9: it is really really shifted and moved till today. Absolutely

464
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 9: ethic the great What do you.

465
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 3: Think has changed? I mean, if you ask me, Stephen,

466
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 3: what what what? What image do you see in your

467
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 3: head over Black Friday? I kind of see it. I

468
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 3: kind of see people outside a big store trying to

469
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 3: find the biggest television they can, you know, that kind

470
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 3: of electronic segments in particular, And then I suppose everyone

471
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 3: else got involved in it. And maybe it just went

472
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: a bit two mainstream.

473
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 9: If that's the thing, you know, I suppose you could

474
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 9: say it's gone mainstream. So the answer really is there

475
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 9: is still it's not completely closed off. People are not

476
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 9: completely closed from Black Fridays and so forth, but there

477
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 9: is something around savvy spending that they are realizing. So

478
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 9: it is actually more of a planned purchase. You start

479
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 9: saving up for the Black Friday, and that's simply driven

480
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 9: by the fact that they've realized over the years that

481
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 9: the discounts are not quite what they would have anticipated

482
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 9: them to be. You are not actually getting things at

483
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 9: near nothing. So what is happening is that continuous are

484
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 9: spending widely the months ahead of Black Friday, and actually

485
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 9: they know very well what they are going to be buying,

486
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 9: where they're going to be buying it, and they can

487
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 9: actually even tell you if it is a good enough

488
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 9: deal or not. So they are quite happy to actually say,

489
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 9: you know what, it's not worth my time, this is

490
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 9: not worth the discount, and actually I think, how past

491
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 9: you know, I'll give it a pass until I am

492
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 9: quite ready. So that hype and that gemmetry around Black

493
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 9: Friday has definitely waned around South Africans much more savvy,

494
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 9: far more planned, and to be honest with you, a

495
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 9: lot more critical about how deep that discount is because

496
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 9: we have always known and expected that Black Friday discounts

497
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 9: will be very deep and you're going to save look,

498
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 9: but it actually isn't that way.

499
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 3: Could it partly also be because there's so many different

500
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,959
Speaker 3: ways to sort of check on prices now to compare

501
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 3: because everything's now online, so you can know well in

502
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: advance with the price of something will be on Black Friday,

503
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: and therefore you don't actually have to leave your house anymore.

504
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 9: That is one aspect of it, so that actually contributes

505
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 9: to the planned purchase, so you can't start looking and

506
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 9: compare across retailers and so forth. But that's just only

507
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 9: one aspect of it, so.

508
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 2: An other past is fact.

509
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 9: Then Black Friday is not actually just limited to one Friday,

510
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 9: which is the last Friday of the month. Many many retailers,

511
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 9: many many stores are actually making it a Black November,

512
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 9: so you actually do have time from your October salary

513
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 9: and planning actually up until your November salary and planning

514
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 9: around that, so you've got a bigger window to kind

515
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 9: of just kind of start comparing you can go and

516
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 9: see and touch and feel and experience whatever it is

517
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 9: that you want to buy. But absolutely it is there

518
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 9: is a massiveist and we are seeing that with consumers

519
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 9: telling us, you know, where as researchers think, Anny, my

520
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 9: purchase is planned and the plant purchase tends to be

521
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 9: around those high ticket items, so the televisions, you know,

522
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 9: like a bed that I've been saving for for months,

523
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 9: and then it is also around January things that I need,

524
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 9: so they are looking at them such as stationary and

525
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 9: they are looking at what can I get from my children,

526
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 9: what uniform at this point, So it is very, very

527
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 9: very cognisense of their spending and absolutely absolutely well planned.

528
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: Kenny, I'm just going to put you back to our

529
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 3: producers for a second and see if we can just

530
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 3: improve the strength on your voice. I mean, there's so

531
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 3: many things around Black Friday that are so interesting. I

532
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 3: do wonder if there's a kind of dilution of the

533
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: whole idea, and I wonder if that's part of it

534
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: as well. Is that just because there's so much advertising

535
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: coming at you all the time, Black Friday, Black November,

536
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 3: black whatever, and that just sort of remove some of

537
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 3: the some of it from it cunny. There's there's another

538
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 3: question which I think is really important, and and that's

539
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: also about the fact that Walmart branded stores are opening

540
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 3: tomorrow and I just haven't seen much buzz around them.

541
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 3: You know, I remember when when mass when Walmart brought

542
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 3: part of mass Mark, it was a big deal. It

543
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: was a big, big deal. And I think it's landing

544
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 3: tomorrow with kind of more of a you know, just

545
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: a kind of not even a splash. I think people

546
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 3: aren't even noticing. Do they just leave it too late?

547
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: Not really.

548
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 9: I mean, the conversations around mas Mart and Walmart have

549
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 9: been happening for quite a while. But what happened a

550
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 9: few years ago. You might remember with Cambridge, when all

551
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 9: these Cambridge stores were launched, and there was an expectation

552
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 9: that we will see more consumers going into this friendly

553
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 9: of buying in big items in discounts and selling their

554
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 9: troneys and so forth. It isn't really so anymore. And

555
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 9: that's really driven by the fact that so much changes

556
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 9: on a daily basis before you know it. For example,

557
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 9: petrol has gone higher. That means it also impacts the

558
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 9: price of how much your taxi will cost you to

559
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 9: get to work. So because life is just so unpredictable.

560
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 9: You also find with parents, for example, the school will

561
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 9: say you need this item or that item tomorrow or

562
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 9: next week, people are not able to plan that far

563
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 9: in advance. So having stores such as your Walmart where

564
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 9: they do encourage your bulk purchases, and your Cambridges that

565
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 9: do say if you're buying bug you get a deeper

566
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 9: and a better discount, people are simply not ready to

567
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 9: plan that for in advance. Life is changing on the

568
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 9: daily and there's so much that is unexpected. So weekly

569
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 9: and even daily top hups by families and individuals is

570
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 9: really the trend, and that's where things are going because

571
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 9: I do not want to be caught unprepared or aware

572
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 9: that something is going to change tomorrow and it impacts

573
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 9: not just me but my whole family. So you know,

574
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 9: if they are aware, from what we have seen in

575
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 9: the data, this systimply the excitement just isn't there because

576
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 9: it doesn't really fit with the current lost time and

577
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 9: my needs today, which is the money is there off

578
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 9: in my pocket, then it is sitting in my grocery

579
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 9: cupboard or in my pantry.

580
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 3: How fascinating. Thank you Connie Motsua is the research directorate

581
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 3: for Cheesy Research Black Friday Tomorrow, looking forward to seeing

582
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 3: how that all plays out. Eleven minutes now to seven.

583
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 10: The Money Show Stephen Croutes is brought to you by

584
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 10: apps CIB proud host of the Africa Impact Matters series podcast,

585
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 10: Perhaps Authorized FSP and registered credit provider.

586
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 4: Steven's on The Money Show six to eight pm.

587
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 3: The Money Shows in conversation with Momentum discussing the importance

588
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 3: of focus in the Science of a Success. We're back

589
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 3: for our weekly series on the Momentum Science of Success campaign,

590
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: exploring your money fingerprint and how it shapes the way

591
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: that you think, feel and behave with money. You may

592
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: remember a couple of weeks ago we spoke to doctor

593
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 3: Muslim Tom Bernie. Tonight, we're actually joined by his wife,

594
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 3: the broadcaster entrepreneur. She's also a former Miss South Africa,

595
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 3: Liesel loriamton Bernie. He's also completed the Money Fingerprint Assessment.

596
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 3: Paul Nixon back with us as well, Momentum's head of

597
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: Behavioral Finance, just to look at the behavioral insights of

598
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: it all, Liesel Good Evening. It's it's wonderful to meet

599
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: you over the phone. You've lived a very public life,

600
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: You've been Miss South Africa, you're in the media. Entrepreneurship.

601
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: When you think about money, when you think about what

602
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: being successful means to you, now, what experiences when you

603
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 3: were much younger, what sort of shaped your mindset?

604
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 11: Thank you so so much for having me this evening

605
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 11: to answer that question. I think Paul and I had

606
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 11: a huge conversation around this a couple of weeks ago.

607
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 11: And it's stiff growing up with slightly less or less then,

608
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 11: you know, having not ever had backup savings. Because my

609
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 11: grandmom was the one who raised me, and she was

610
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 11: also the one who raised everyone and looked after everyone

611
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 11: in our family. There was never that little pocket that

612
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 11: we could go and tap into, and that definitely shaped

613
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 11: the way I look at money today, like I need

614
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 11: to have savings, I need to have that little pocket

615
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 11: that I can tap into should things go wrong, and

616
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 11: also if I do need to celebrate myself at any point.

617
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 3: I mean, Paul Liesel's talking there about things that happened

618
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: a very long time ago and she was very young.

619
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 3: I mean those childhood memories, those kind of memories of money,

620
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 3: they must influence us as adults.

621
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 12: We've all got stories about money as kids, I mean,

622
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 12: if I can. There's some common key themes around those

623
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 12: stories as well. One of them is anxiety, which Lithla's

624
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 12: just mentioned now. So I mean I remember growing up

625
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 12: as well. I mean, you know, one of my good

626
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 12: friends in primary school, I noticed one day he wasn't school.

627
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 12: Then they wasn't at school, and you know, we found

628
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 12: out a couple of weeks softerwards that his dad had

629
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 12: gone to the casino and sort of lost the house

630
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 12: on the you know, on the table. So that obviously

631
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 12: created a lot of anxiety, and and that creates some

632
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 12: very negative associations, often with money. But obviously people respond

633
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 12: differently to these. And you know, another key theme is

634
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 12: definitely the kind of status, the status thing, right, I mean,

635
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 12: as kids, we we go to other people's houses and parties,

636
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 12: engagements and whatnot, and we realize very quickly that sometimes

637
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 12: people have more than us or we have less than them,

638
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 12: and how we treated in those situations as well. So

639
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 12: these kind of things all contribute to the attitudes that

640
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 12: we form around money, and you know, anxiety and that

641
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 12: net worth equal self worth or to the big ones.

642
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 3: I mean, liesel you you completed momentums, money fingerprints. I mean,

643
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 3: doing a test, it digs into emotions, it digs into behavior.

644
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 3: It's not just sort of numbers and budgeting. I mean

645
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 3: what struck you most about it?

646
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 11: I think when I was excited and standing by to

647
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 11: do the test, you know, I was so stafy ready

648
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 11: with how much savings do you have a month? And

649
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 11: how much income do you have? And you know, what

650
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 11: are you doing? What are you investing? And the part

651
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 11: when it's in was asking me things that was definitely

652
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 11: tapping into my emotions, my anxiety, my stresses around money.

653
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 11: Was something that really shocked me because here I was

654
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 11: thinking that Paul and the rest of them, I'm the

655
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 11: engine seeing, would be more interested in what I'm doing

656
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 11: with my money, but rather they were interested in how

657
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 11: my emotions and my thought processes around money actually affects

658
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 11: what I actually do with my money.

659
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 3: I mean also, many of us we look disciplined, we

660
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 3: look like we're in charge, but there's a sort of

661
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: invisible stress about money. I mean it's quite common you

662
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 3: look like you're in control, but jish go underneath the

663
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 3: surface and people are scared.

664
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, and the simple reason for that, Steven,

665
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 12: I think it's just, you know, control does not necessarily

666
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 12: equal peace.

667
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 3: So a lot of us can be very disciplined with money.

668
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 12: We can be very rigid in our budgeting process, for example,

669
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 12: but we can still have a lot of anxiety money

670
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 12: I'm not having enough, or disappointing people or you know,

671
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 12: getting back into hardship for example. So you know, financial

672
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 12: wellbeing is not just about the numbers part, which is

673
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 12: obviously important. That's the budgeting and the discipline side. It's

674
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 12: also about you know, your you know, the piece that

675
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 12: you can generate from you know, from having money as well.

676
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 12: So so well being has got you know, we need

677
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 12: to consider both of those dimensions also. I mean, you've

678
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 12: been in the public eye for so much of your life,

679
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 12: and there's an expectation you must have money, you must

680
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 12: you know, arrive in this car.

681
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: It must be an uber black. You know, how do

682
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 3: you maintain your own sort of financial boundaries without being

683
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 3: pulled into all of that?

684
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 11: In my thirties now I'm very much better at doing that.

685
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 11: I think when you're a bit younger, the uber black

686
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 11: and the who's driving which car is a very important thing.

687
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 11: But what I've learned, you know, over the last maybe

688
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 11: couple of years, is surrounding myself with people who don't

689
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 11: just focus on you know, what is the fanciest and

690
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 11: the nicest, Surrounding myself with people who are planning for

691
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 11: their futures, people who are focused on investing and growing

692
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 11: their lives, not just in the moment of now, because

693
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 11: I think if we do live in that space of

694
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 11: who's shining right now, who's got the fanciest car right now,

695
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 11: we don't think about the future, and that brings about,

696
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 11: you know, being unfocused and being un or disinterested or

697
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 11: rather a lack of interest in what.

698
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 3: You are going to be doing with your future.

699
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,919
Speaker 11: So mainly for me now, I always say to my husband,

700
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 11: I like hanging out with people that are older than me,

701
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 11: mainly because I can sit around with their wisdom. And

702
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 11: that comes from that part of like what did you do,

703
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 11: how were you doing, and what is your focus that

704
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 11: got you to you know, the place that you are

705
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 11: right now. And I love being around individuals who are

706
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 11: focused on the future, future investments, future property, and you know,

707
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 11: just future lifestyle.

708
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 13: Paul.

709
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 3: I mean, if you looked at Instagram, you think everybody

710
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 3: drove a soft top, and everybody you know drank only

711
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 3: the finest French that's so irish that I mean that

712
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 3: must show up in people's fingerprints. And yet you've got

713
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 3: to stay focused.

714
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 12: Yeah, indeed. So I mean there's you know, Morganhuzzle. We've

715
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 12: mentioned him a few times, you know, over these chats

716
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 12: as well, a wonderful book called The Psychology of Money.

717
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 12: He talks about the man in the car paradox, you know,

718
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 12: which is you know, when you when you see someone

719
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 12: driving a Ferrari for example. You know a lot of people,

720
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 12: you know, you don't actually look through at the person

721
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 12: in that car. You just think about how cool would

722
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 12: I look in that car?

723
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 3: You know.

724
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 12: So we just want to make sure obviously that people

725
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 12: there's nothing wrong with wanting nice things and buying nice things.

726
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 12: We just want to make obviously sure that you don't

727
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 12: that you get what you pay for. So if you're

728
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 12: buying these nice things to get to get other people's respect,

729
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 12: you're probably not getting what you paid for. And you know,

730
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 12: obviously the discipline side comes to that as well. So

731
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 12: can you actually afford it? And what opportunities are you

732
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 12: for going by you know, by by you know, spending

733
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 12: that way now, Liz.

734
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 3: I mean you look back on your own journey. Was

735
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 3: there a particular shift, a particular mindset shift. Maybe you're

736
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 3: something in your behavior, but that made you just feel

737
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 3: a lot more empowered about managing your money.

738
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 11: I think it's having the understanding of a hairdress studied

739
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 11: here and is good at hair a doctor. My husband's

740
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 11: a doctor, so shout out to him. He studied medicine

741
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 11: and he's a really good doctor.

742
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 14: Me.

743
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 11: I'm not a financial advisor. I'm not a person who

744
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 11: necessarily works in finance. What made my behavioral shift move

745
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 11: over the last couple of years was understanding that if

746
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 11: I need to be looking after my money or any

747
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 11: aspect in my life, I need a professional or someone

748
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 11: that is at least more educated in that space than

749
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 11: I am. So when it comes to, for example, my finances,

750
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 11: I need someone who knows finances. You know, we sit

751
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 11: around and you listen to Oma and Mom give you

752
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 11: the information that they have, but it is so limited

753
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 11: because yes, again, my mom is an educator. My grandmother

754
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 11: was an educator, very very respected, very very well educated woman,

755
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 11: but not necessarily in finance. So I think if you

756
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 11: can break that down even just to friends and family

757
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 11: that sometimes you do need somebody who is a bit

758
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 11: smarter than you in the aspects or the avenue you're

759
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 11: trying to go down to help you with those things.

760
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 11: And for me, meeting someone who was well verse and

761
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 11: who was a financial advisor in my mid twenties was

762
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 11: definitely the best thing that could have ever happened to me.

763
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 4: Paul.

764
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: If you want to uncover your own money fingerprint, you

765
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 3: want to know more about the science of success campaign,

766
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 3: where would you go? Yeah, you can just visit money

767
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 3: Fingerprint dot kosa and take the test there and yeah,

768
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 3: I learn about these things for yourself, paorl nexton thank

769
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 3: you ahead of Behavioral Financed Momentum Liezel Lauri, Tim Benny

770
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 3: the broadcaster personality former Miss South Africa really do appreciate

771
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 3: the time. Thank you very much indeed for you.

772
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen's credits on seven

773
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: O two, Let's walk little.

774
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Crotis is brought to you

775
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 3: by Abscess cib proud host of the Africa Impact Matters

776
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 3: series podcast. Abstru is an authorized FSP and registered credit provider.

777
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 3: Eight minutes after seven Lots going on, will speak to

778
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 3: sipumelele zondie in a moment. What's been happening in London.

779
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 3: There's been a big cyber attack there looks like some

780
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: councils have actually been hacked. This is becoming a huge problem,

781
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 3: by the way in so many places. Small business focus,

782
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 3: wonderful question a boring businesses still boring, some corbo wOBA

783
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 3: will be with you. And then an investment School, the

784
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 3: pre Black Friday edition of Investment School. It's all about

785
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 3: shared discounts. Why it is that you can have a

786
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 3: holding company that holds certain shares in them and the

787
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 3: value of the holding company looks less than the actual

788
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 3: value of the shares they hold. Why does that happen?

789
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 3: Why do they trade at a discount and how does

790
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 3: it work? That's the focus of Investment School this evening.

791
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: Good to hear from you, of course on a double

792
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 3: ONEA three seven O two two one four four six

793
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 3: O five six seven and Voice notes on seven two

794
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 3: seven oh two one seven oh two.

795
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 4: The Honey Show with Stephen Krutz live on ninety two

796
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 4: point seven and one o six FM streaming on the

797
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 4: Prime Media Plus.

798
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: NAP and D the channel eight five six.

799
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 3: So I said last night, it seemed to me that

800
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 3: was reporting on Bloomberg that the US President Donald Trump

801
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 3: might say South Africa is not invited to the G twenty.

802
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 3: It's being held in Miami next year, and that would

803
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 3: sort of be in response to what our president sorrow

804
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 3: on my Pausa and our government had correctly in my view,

805
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 3: sort of managed and the way in which we had

806
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 3: managed the G twenty over the weekend. We know the

807
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 3: Trump administration didn't want a leaders declaration, we know they boycotted.

808
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: We know that all of the other nations of the

809
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 3: G twenty went ahead and actually passed the declaration and

810
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 3: basically defied in a way, and I think an important way,

811
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 3: the Trump administration. So when Trump does the several things

812
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 3: come to mind and you try to wonder what is

813
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 3: the actual aim. So is the actual aim to isolate

814
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 3: South Africa. If that's the actual aim, it's obviously going

815
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 3: to fail because all of the other countries that were

816
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 3: here agreed with us. So what you're doing is you're

817
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 3: forcing those countries to decide to be with South Africa

818
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,959
Speaker 3: or to be with the United States. And the Trump

819
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 3: administration now from the declaration, which basically points to we'll

820
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 3: work together and we look forward seeing each other under

821
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 3: the under the British presidency in twenty twenty seven. If

822
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 3: you look at that, you can see it seems obvious

823
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 3: to me that any move against South Africa in the

824
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: G twenty is actually going to isolate the United States

825
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 3: more than anyone else. More than isolating South Africa forces

826
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 3: everybody who agrees with us to sort of publicly agree

827
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 3: with us in some of those countries, I think are

828
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 3: going to do that. So then your question would be okay,

829
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: but why would Trump want to be isolated? And then

830
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: I think, well, actually, this is what comes out of

831
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 3: the typical kind of strong man playbook, because if the

832
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 3: US is isolated, he can say it's the world against

833
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 3: us and you need me to protect you. And that,

834
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 3: for me, is where the key to all of this lies.

835
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: The net result of him isolating South Africa is actually

836
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 3: going to be isolated. The isolation of the unis United States,

837
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 3: and that's what Trump wants because then he can say, look,

838
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 3: everyone is against us, you have to vote for me.

839
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 3: It's all about domestic politics. It's also about race in

840
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: my view as well, very much about race, because he

841
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 3: keeps lying about what's happening here, but I found it very,

842
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 3: very interesting. They have a big topic we're talking about tonight.

843
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 3: Black Friday. Voice notes still coming through Best Deals seven

844
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 3: seven two one seven two.

845
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 14: Stephen.

846
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 15: Yeah, the best Black Friday deal I've ever had was

847
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 15: when I was looking for a monitor.

848
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 16: Okay, a bit of bird talk, but I was looking

849
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 16: for a monitor that had at least HDM my two

850
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 16: points up.

851
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 3: And now come Black Friday, this was the last year.

852
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 15: It so happened that the monitor that I was looking

853
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 15: at didn't get a deal, but another monitor that was

854
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 15: even better, that had Azmi two point one, which was

855
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 15: exactly what I needed. It happened to be on sale

856
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 15: and it was five hundred rand less than the monitor

857
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 15: I was looking at.

858
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 14: So I was like, this is a no brain.

859
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 3: Now I'll go.

860
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 16: I'll go with the monitor that has what I need.

861
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 16: I can run the stuff I want, well not run,

862
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 16: but you have the repress rate I want with a

863
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 16: correct forts. But that was the best Black Friday deal

864
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 16: I've ever had.

865
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 7: Thank you.

866
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 3: I love the detail about it, the technical detail. It's

867
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 3: just great. I mean, I'm completely with you, so thank

868
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 3: you for that. Really do appreciate it. Thirteen after seven.

869
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 2: How Money Show takes Thursday.

870
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 3: Well, in the UK, London dealing with what seems to

871
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: be quite a sophisticated, coordinated set of cyber attacks. Some

872
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 3: of its councils have been targeted, and we see a

873
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 3: lot more of these things we've heard in the past

874
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 3: about how they hold people to ransom see Pumalela zondies

875
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 3: artic exper see Pumalella hous it. What happened in the UK?

876
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 17: Hello Stephen, It seems like there are a couple of

877
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 17: consoles like Kansas and Charlsia are Westminster and Hamma Smith

878
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 17: and Fulham. And it seems like THEA as you rightfully

879
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 17: say so I was suffered a cyber attack and it's

880
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 17: they haven't made public the extent of the information or

881
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 17: the data that has been taken. But what's happened is

882
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 17: that the City of London, the Metropolitan Council there, has

883
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 17: decided that they're going to shut down a lot of

884
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 17: their services in order for them to investigate what's been

885
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 17: done or protect what hasn't been hit just yet. So

886
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 17: if you are traveling to London, as we know that

887
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 17: a lot of South Africans do, if you have friends

888
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 17: and relatives that don't know what's going on, as we

889
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 17: do know that the city that most South Africans who

890
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 17: live off that the country lives in. That's what's happened

891
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 17: in London. That's why they probably can't do a lot

892
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 17: of what they easily do when they're getting trying to

893
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 17: get their council services. It's because they're stuffered a sable attack.

894
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 3: Do we know who would actually do this, and I

895
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 3: mean this is always the problems, very difficult to know

896
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 3: who the individuals actually are.

897
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 17: The police that's I say, they already do know. They

898
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 17: said they sort of figured it out on Wednesday and

899
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 17: nights that took to be last night, but they haven't

900
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 17: made that public yet.

901
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 5: And it's actually not the.

902
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 17: First time that this happens, because there was I believe

903
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 17: it was Hackney a couple of years ago, about five

904
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 17: or so years ago, and there close to half a

905
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 17: million residents data was stolen by the hackers. So that's

906
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 17: the information that they probably have been looking for to

907
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 17: try and figure out the information that the residents of

908
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 17: the place would have when they're trying to do this.

909
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 3: So often, I mean, we get told what to be

910
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 3: careful of, we get told not to sort of allow

911
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 3: ourselves to be fish, that's fish with a pH. We

912
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: go on all of these lessons that our companies make

913
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 3: us go on, and yet these attackers are getting more sophisticated,

914
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: and I suppose somewhere in this AI is probably helping

915
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 3: them more than it's helping me.

916
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 5: Well totally.

917
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 17: There's also been what hell is believed by those in

918
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 17: the space that has been the first ever AI cyber attack.

919
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 17: And do they believe that it is a group called

920
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 17: GTG ten zero or two that carried this out targeting

921
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 17: about organizations in We don't know where these sarity organizations

922
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 17: are just yet, but it's an AI. So they say

923
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 17: about eighty percent of this was carried out by AI,

924
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 17: with human intervention probably performing about ten to twenty percent

925
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 17: of the tasks.

926
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,399
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean, if you've got AI agents that can't

927
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 3: really be controlled by humans, they run autonomously and they're

928
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 3: able to hack into systems, I mean, I don't know

929
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 3: who's going to control them. I mean I can sort

930
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 3: of see where this movie ends, and Bruce Willis isn't

931
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: going to save us this time.

932
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 7: Well, you see, that's the thing.

933
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 17: Year At least we do hear that there's about twenty

934
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 17: percent of the trusts were carried out by humans, and

935
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 17: that twenty percent includes basically identifying who the targets will

936
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 17: be and then allowing AI to do the rest of

937
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 17: are of the work. And like, once they've pointed at

938
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 17: the target, AI goes in. AI cracks the passwords or

939
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 17: whatever passwords we're there. I extract the information. But AI

940
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 17: gets better, especially as it lands in the wrong hands.

941
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 17: AI is possibly going to be trained to figure out

942
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 17: who to target, and as you say, it might actually

943
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 17: not have great repercussions because now it's AI figuring out

944
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 17: who to target, or maybe even AI deciding to target

945
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 17: just about everybody in order for it to get the

946
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 17: information that it wants.

947
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 3: Who do these attackers target? And I know it's often

948
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 3: sort of state facilities, hospitals, there's an oil pipeline in

949
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 3: the states, and council buildings of councils.

950
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 17: Obviously, in this particular incident and topic has it's a

951
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 17: an organization that's involved in cybersecurity. They said that they

952
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 17: used their their code AI and they say what they

953
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 17: figured it out is that they targeted all sorts. Really, again,

954
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 17: they haven't said I have gone public with who the

955
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 17: thirty organizations. They have said that governments were targeted, they

956
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 17: have said that their corporations were targeted. So they've targeted

957
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 17: just about a myriad of organizations that could include a

958
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 17: state's government and their entities as well.

959
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 3: And sper Maleta. Good to talk to you, though, as

960
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 3: always such a difficult topic. See put Mallerna Zodie I'll

961
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 3: take expert.

962
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: The money shows Small Business.

963
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 3: Focus tonight, discussing the question are boring businesses really boring?

964
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 3: Actually quite an interesting question if you think about it,

965
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 3: because some things look quite boring on the surface, but

966
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 3: running a business is never boring. So Cobo Rubert is

967
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 3: not entrepreneurial business strategist Koba. Good evening, everyone, when you

968
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 3: when you hear of a new business, I can't almost

969
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 3: automatically think I'm gonna hear the phrase ai afterwards, I'm

970
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 3: gonna hear unicorn something like that, but that's surely not

971
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 3: what most people are doing.

972
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,919
Speaker 13: Good evening, Thank you so much for having me as usual,

973
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,919
Speaker 13: And that's exactly it. Right. It feels like if.

974
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 18: You keep listening about all the things about business, that

975
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 18: everyone's building the next unicorn, which then isn't a unicorn, right?

976
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 18: They're supposed to be rare, and everyone's building the next

977
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 18: and lateral learning models type solution, and like you say,

978
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 18: I mean, for most part, most entrepreneurs are just not

979
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 18: in that line of business. Some entrepreneurs are doing boring

980
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 18: businesses and sometimes making a bit more money with a

981
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 18: little more less risk actually than some of the incredible

982
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 18: tech stuff that we think is kind of the norm

983
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 18: in the small business space.

984
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 3: So I mean, does that mean that we could all

985
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 3: be focused on the wrong thing. We're all looking for

986
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 3: the single horned animal when really what we should be

987
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 3: doing is actually looking for opportunities to make money.

988
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 18: You've nail on the head there, looking for opportunities to

989
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 18: make money and serve needs that customers have. And the

990
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 18: reality is, I mean a silly example, I really want

991
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 18: to own a car wash. You know, if I think

992
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 18: about little things that I spend money on on a weekly, daily,

993
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 18: monthly basis that just tick away slowly but surely.

994
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 13: But also often are really old school business models.

995
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 18: Right, So there's a trend of late which is being

996
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 18: seen and those who have some capital are moving on it.

997
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 18: Where if you think about the typical generations, I'm a millennial,

998
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 18: so millennials gen zs all after the Tech eight I

999
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 18: boom some more than others, and our boomer generations are

1000
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 18: getting older and letting go of some really money printing

1001
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 18: businesses car washers as an example, aircorn conditioning companies.

1002
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 19: Right.

1003
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 18: And the question with this and the opportunity that exists

1004
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 18: is there are really simple efficiencies that can be included

1005
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 18: into those models that would actually take those businesses to

1006
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 18: the next level.

1007
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 13: And you're not starting a business from zero.

1008
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 3: I mean you take over a small hairdresser. I mean

1009
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 3: you're not going to go out of business, or a

1010
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 3: makeup artness or something like that. I mean, I mean,

1011
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 3: are they boring businesses we use every day of the week.

1012
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 3: We don't really think about it. I'm thinking about people

1013
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 3: who I don't know sell toilet paper at a taxi

1014
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 3: rank or something.

1015
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:05,919
Speaker 18: I think there's a lot of businesses that you don't

1016
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 18: think too much about, and I like to challenge the

1017
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 18: fact that they're boring. I mean, I really think that

1018
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 18: there's so many things that haven't been sold for efficiency.

1019
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 13: So there's probably something.

1020
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 18: You moan about on a regular basis that you have

1021
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 18: to do often, but you don't like how it works.

1022
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 18: And you think that it can be improved, and the

1023
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 18: reality is that's a business that's an opportunity.

1024
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 13: I mean, I was using the car wash example. I

1025
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 13: hate the car wash.

1026
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 18: My car is normally really dirty on the outside, really

1027
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 18: clean on the inside, because I would much rather prefer

1028
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 18: a quicker process, one that is somewhat automated, so I'm

1029
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 18: not checking if the guys forgot to clean my wheels

1030
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 18: or the roof of the car, or underneath the bonnet

1031
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 18: or whatever it is, and actually get to a point

1032
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 18: where I'm not kind of counting pennies for how many

1033
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 18: car washes I need in a month, but perhaps maybe

1034
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 18: a subscription model to actually say, or wash your car

1035
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 18: as many times as you need and if you hit

1036
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 18: a button, we'll come do it at your house, because

1037
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 18: today you can't drive out to us. So there's a

1038
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 18: lot of kind of those businesses that have been owned

1039
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 18: predominantly by the boomer generation, and as they decide to

1040
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 18: cash in some of that wealth in those family businesses,

1041
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 18: they're actually offloading those businesses, which creates an opportunity to

1042
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 18: acquire a business and effectively make it more efficient and

1043
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 18: continue to make good money.

1044
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,919
Speaker 3: I mean, who owns these businesses. You suggest older people,

1045
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 3: but I imagine people who've been running them for quite

1046
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 3: a long time.

1047
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 18: There we go, and that's normally the thing that they've

1048
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 18: started these business a while ago. I mean, I've got

1049
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 18: an incredible entrepreneur who's retired, supposedly on paper and actually

1050
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 18: is running an oven installation business.

1051
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 3: Wow.

1052
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 18: Imports impressive ovens from overseas, and he calls himself the

1053
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 18: oven installation Mechanic. This guy used to be the CEO

1054
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 18: of one of the credit bureau businesses.

1055
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 13: So you're right. It's people who've been running these.

1056
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 18: Businesses for a while, sometimes quietly on the side, sometimes

1057
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 18: doing it to keep them so busy, and there comes

1058
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 18: a point where they're kind of trying to consolidate their

1059
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 18: net worth and consolidate time to spend with grandchildren, and

1060
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 18: are actually looking for either partners to invest and get

1061
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 18: involved in the business or actually to sell it out completely.

1062
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 3: And I suppose the other thing is that running any

1063
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 3: kind of business but almost by definition, can't be boring

1064
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 3: because there's so much to do. I mean, you might

1065
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 3: not enjoy all of it. I mean, I would be

1066
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 3: a disaster with accounts, but and possibly car washinges. But

1067
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 3: but there is so much that you've got to do.

1068
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 3: You've got to manage this, you've got to manage that,

1069
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 3: you've got to sell, you've got to get yourself out there,

1070
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 3: and just being busy means that you're not bored exactly.

1071
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 18: So I don't think any business is boring, like you said,

1072
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 18: I mean I think that even if you think it

1073
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 18: initially looks boring on the surface, there are many different,

1074
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 18: interesting and exciting ways to make it more efficient and

1075
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 18: make it a better business. But definitely not boring because

1076
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 18: being an entrepreneur is one of those things where you

1077
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 18: effectively are doing a couple of jobs, probably five to

1078
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 18: ten as one person, and that means that you constantly

1079
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 18: on your toes and constantly trying to figure out how

1080
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 18: to stay on top.

1081
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 13: So definitely not boring.

1082
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 3: And also being an entrepreneur just looking for new customers,

1083
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 3: keeping things going. I mean, if you go and look

1084
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 3: at what's going on around a car wash, there are

1085
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 3: so many different things you do it right. I mean,

1086
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 3: you can do hair at the same time as you're

1087
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 3: getting your car washed. I mean, there's no reason why

1088
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 3: you can't have a little orchuit.

1089
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 13: Correct. So it's like if you're doing that car wash.

1090
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 13: Where's the best location for a car wash?

1091
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 18: What other ancillary services should you be doing when people

1092
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 18: are sitting there for the forty five minutes waiting for

1093
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 18: their car to be ready.

1094
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 13: What else could you cross? Oll that's a lot better

1095
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 13: than some of.

1096
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 18: The picnic benches that you see people sitting at at

1097
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 18: the garage. You know, even for I mean something simple.

1098
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 18: Plumbing businesses are I mean if you've hung out with

1099
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 18: a plumber and got to find out how much they make,

1100
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 18: you know.

1101
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 13: Tiler's, you know, pest control.

1102
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 18: I was shocked recently by a pest control guy who

1103
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 18: came to do a session at my home and finding

1104
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:56,399
Speaker 18: out how much.

1105
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 13: He makes, but also what he used to do. People

1106
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 13: are walking.

1107
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 18: Away from kind of these sexy jobs to actually take

1108
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 18: on businesses such as these and are actually finding it

1109
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 18: an appropriate challenge.

1110
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 3: I don't know with pest control. Is that why everyone's

1111
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 3: arguing about bee all the time? Thanks so much for

1112
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 3: coming through, ready to appreciate it. Some corba UBA's the

1113
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 3: entrepreneur and business strategist.

1114
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 2: The Money Show Investment School.

1115
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 3: Twenty four minutes now to eighth the time time for

1116
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 3: Investment School tonight. Well, there was an opinion piece by

1117
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 3: the Element Investment Manager c O Keith maclachlin. This week

1118
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 3: was our Moneyweb. It's all about discounts, and in the

1119
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 3: spirit of Black Friday tomorrow, we thought we would focus

1120
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 3: on discounts share discounts, but in this case, what we're

1121
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 3: really talking about is the difference between the value of

1122
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 3: a share and the value of a holding company that

1123
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 3: might own that share. Both of these would be listed

1124
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,399
Speaker 3: and why there is a difference between them. If you're

1125
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: a bit lost, so am i. Gary Boysen is the

1126
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 3: director at rand Swiss. Patrick Matidias the head of equities

1127
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 3: at Aliwani Capital Partners. Gents, Good evening, Garry. Let me

1128
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 3: start with you, Okay, let me try and explain what

1129
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 3: I think I'm talking about, and you can give me

1130
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 3: a mark out of ten. Be nice. Let me use

1131
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 3: the example of nas Pez, if has a stake in

1132
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 3: ten cents, has a share price. If you look at

1133
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 3: nas Paez, sometimes the value of nas Pez seems to

1134
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 3: be below the value of tencent. Or another example would

1135
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 3: be Breat. There's a difference between the value of the

1136
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 3: shares they hold in some companies and their own share price.

1137
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 3: How did I do?

1138
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:27,359
Speaker 20: Yeah?

1139
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:27,879
Speaker 3: Pretty good.

1140
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 20: Yeah, I think that's that's a reasonable explanation. And another

1141
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,240
Speaker 20: one would be pick and pay in boxer I suppose

1142
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 20: as well. So sometimes it pick and pays steak that

1143
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 20: it holds in boxer is larger than the whole share

1144
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 20: price of pick and pair. So how do you explain that?

1145
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 20: And there's many ways to explain it. And there's many

1146
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 20: reasons that you get these discounts to, specifically in holding companies.

1147
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 20: And yeah, I think the piece that Keith was writing,

1148
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 20: you know, it's just highlighting that these discounts. I think

1149
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 20: a lot of investors look at a discount like I

1150
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 20: and think, oh yeah, I mean you've probably heard it

1151
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 20: a million times. Oh well, you know, if you buy

1152
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 20: naspas at these levels, you know you're getting ten cent,

1153
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 20: but you get all the other businesses for free. But

1154
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 20: the fact is in the fact, the point that Keith

1155
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 20: I think was making was that many of these discounts

1156
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 20: they exist for a reason, and that reason is often

1157
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 20: the risk associated with holding, you know, the alternative structure.

1158
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 20: And like I said, the discounts in holding companies can

1159
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 20: be for many reasons. I mean you might remember a

1160
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 20: storier years ago as well, which I think was an

1161
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 20: anchor capital firm at that stage and that had a

1162
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 20: wonderful you know, spread of international instruments. It became a

1163
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 20: listed equity and it was really it was kind of

1164
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 20: the It was the fees through the structure that was

1165
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 20: creating the discounts. So yeah, absolutely, you could could have

1166
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 20: gone and bold a story at that stage. You would

1167
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 20: have had you know, the net asset value of the

1168
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 20: share was way above what the market price of the

1169
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 20: share was. But there was a good reason for that

1170
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 20: discount because there was an expensive fee structure in place

1171
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 20: which eventually got unwound. So so yeah, many reasons for it.

1172
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 20: And I think that again, like I said, the point

1173
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 20: that Keith is making is when things are discounted, when

1174
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 20: when things aren't special, just look on why they're on

1175
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 20: special as well.

1176
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 3: Okay, so so Patrick, I need to and let's just

1177
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 3: go into some of the reasons to why this happens,

1178
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 3: because on the face of it, it would seem to

1179
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 3: me bizarre that a company like Bread and there are

1180
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 3: other examples, I think our season other where you can

1181
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 3: hold the value, you can hold shares that are a

1182
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 3: certain value of x, and yet the holding company that

1183
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 3: owns those shares is less than x Patrick, what are

1184
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 3: some of the more what are some of the sort

1185
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 3: of common reasons as to why this happens.

1186
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 14: Yeah, good intin, guys, and thanks for having me once again.

1187
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 19: I think the other more common reason tends to be taxation,

1188
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 19: you know, So so to extend that at some point

1189
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 19: that holding by the holding company into the underlying may

1190
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 19: be sold, it tends to trigger a whole lot of

1191
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 19: capital gains taxes. So you have to account for that

1192
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 19: in terms of the valuation of the underlying holding through

1193
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 19: the holding company. But I think, you know, before we

1194
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 19: even go to some of the reasons, I think there

1195
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,439
Speaker 19: are other elements or other dynamics where you do see

1196
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 19: at discounts. So it's not only a holding company and

1197
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 19: it's underlign, but an entergy itself. You know, you have

1198
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 19: what we call the intrinsic value, and then you have

1199
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 19: the share price. So most often those two are different

1200
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 19: numbers but pertending to the same company, and it can

1201
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 19: either be a premium or a discount, you know, depending

1202
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 19: on how the market views that company as a standarone,

1203
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 19: you know, given its own fundamental valuation and what the

1204
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 19: share price is implying. So so I think that many

1205
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 19: other types of examples where do you get to see

1206
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 19: discounts versus premiums. For example, one thing that one that

1207
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 19: I explained, but another one amner of interest is a

1208
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 19: company trading at a discount its own book value.

1209
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 1: Right.

1210
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 19: And sometimes you find companies where there isn't much on

1211
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 19: the on the balance sheet, but the share price is

1212
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 19: actually a lot on the cash on the balance sheet.

1213
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 14: Right.

1214
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 19: So so you have a lot of these examples where

1215
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 19: you have some anomalies which clearly from an investor point

1216
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 19: of view, it creates a lot of opportunities where if

1217
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 19: you are right, you can make a lot of money.

1218
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 14: Has and ran those discounts or premiums and open up

1219
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 14: and closes.

1220
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 3: Okay, so Patrick, I just want to understand this. So say,

1221
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 3: for example, you take a company. Let's just say the

1222
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 3: company owns a factory. The factory is worth a million round.

1223
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 3: You look at the share price of the company and

1224
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 3: the company is only worth three quarters of a million round.

1225
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 3: Is that what you mean when you're talking about the

1226
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 3: share price versus the asset book?

1227
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 19: Yeah, So in that case it's the book value of

1228
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 19: the business. Then that book value after taking out liabilities

1229
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 19: for example, and then comparing that to the share price

1230
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 19: to say, actually, if I were to you know, close

1231
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 19: this business today and sell off the assets, what can

1232
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 19: I get versus what the share price is implying.

1233
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 14: Right, So there is also that element.

1234
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 19: And then a much teakier one is where you look

1235
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 19: at the true value drivers of the company. So you

1236
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 19: then try and focus the innings and over the long term,

1237
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 19: and it discount those back and then say what is

1238
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 19: this business worth, you know, given the fundamentals, And then

1239
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 19: why is the share price implaying given no idea?

1240
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 14: Where's training at?

1241
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 19: You know, on the on the JC and that difference

1242
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 19: you know, if you are right and you're on the

1243
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 19: right side of it, you know, you you know, it

1244
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 19: can open up a close.

1245
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 14: If it's a premium, it miss expensive.

1246
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 19: If it's a discountry, mister, is value And therefore, as

1247
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 19: I said, I'm from an investments by point of view,

1248
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 19: you know, you can make quite a bit of money

1249
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 19: if you are on the right side of things.

1250
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 3: Gary, why would the discount exist? And then close?

1251
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,919
Speaker 20: And it's a we can get quite philosophical here because

1252
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 20: it's an excellent example that you've used there. You know,

1253
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 20: you've got a company that maybe is worth you know,

1254
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 20: let's say three quarters of the value of the factory.

1255
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 20: The factory is worth a million, round, the company is

1256
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 20: only worth seven hundred and fifty thousand.

1257
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 11: Now.

1258
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 20: The problem is, and I think what a lot of

1259
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 20: people don't recognize, is there's a difference between owning the

1260
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 20: company that owns the factory, even if it's its only asset,

1261
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 20: and owning the factory directly. And that company has a

1262
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 20: management team that you're buying into as well, And often

1263
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 20: what happens is and I I take Patrick's point one

1264
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 20: hundred percent, he is absolutely answering this in a textbook way.

1265
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 20: And typically, you know, you would expect the management team

1266
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 20: is rational, they're not crazy, they're not going to burn

1267
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 20: down the factory. But sometimes you have terrible management teams

1268
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 20: in place. And you've now bought the company that owns

1269
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 20: the factory, that has an insane management team that happens

1270
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 20: to just go and burn down their own factory. Your

1271
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 20: company is now worth more. So there's a risk in

1272
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 20: owning the company versus owning the underlying asset, and often

1273
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 20: that also explains the discount.

1274
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 3: Now, but just to be clear, the risk is that

1275
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 3: you don't control it directly. It's not that you don't

1276
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 3: control it directly that they are in this case. Like

1277
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 3: I'm just using management as an example, but there are

1278
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 3: other risk factors that the market is perceiving that you

1279
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 3: might not be perceiving. You're looking at you know, just

1280
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 3: looking at the book value, looking at the at the

1281
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 3: share price and going, oh, well, there's a discount that

1282
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 3: must close. It can close in two ways, so either

1283
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 3: the market is going to be right or the analyst

1284
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 3: is going to be right, and both have expectations feeding

1285
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 3: into them. So the market price is obviously the price

1286
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 3: discovery is created through many buyers and sellers coming together

1287
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 3: and going, I think this is expand I think this

1288
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 3: is cheap, and shares trade on an exchange and price

1289
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 3: this price is formed and it's you know, if you

1290
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 3: look at efficient market hypothesis for example, like you know,

1291
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 3: the prices can be pretty accurate, especially in liquid markets,

1292
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 3: and the idea you know naspas. I mean one of

1293
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 3: the explanations around the discount and naspath was that you know,

1294
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 3: the South African capital market just wasn't big enough to

1295
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 3: close the discount. So you know, obviously went through the

1296
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 3: very complex, you know, transaction, you know, the process split,

1297
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 3: the listing, you know in Europe, and the idea that

1298
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 3: this is going to have access bigger capital markets and

1299
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 3: that's definitely going to close the discount. That discount didn't close,

1300
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 3: So the hypothespothesis was wrong. And I think at this

1301
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 3: stage you've just got to also bear in mind that

1302
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 3: when you do identify a discount, it can close in

1303
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 3: two ways. One, you know that the discount can close

1304
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 3: because the market that there's all those buyers and sellers

1305
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 3: are the price discovery is wrong, and eventually it will

1306
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 3: reflect the true value.

1307
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 20: So the share price of your factory that's set to

1308
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 20: get seven hundred and fifty thousand eventually moves up to

1309
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 20: a million, or those hidden risks that you didn't assess

1310
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 20: that the market, you know, the almost the group think,

1311
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 20: you know, the wisdom that is many people looking at this,

1312
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 20: rather than the single analyst that is making assumptions in

1313
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:17,960
Speaker 20: terms of what that underlying factory is worth that maybe thought, oh,

1314
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 20: it's definitely worth a million, because I've looked at all

1315
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 20: the factories in the area and they're all worth about

1316
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 20: the million, and it looks the same. But he hasn't

1317
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 20: gone into the basement and realized there's structural deficiencies there

1318
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 20: that the market has picked up that he hasn't. So

1319
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 20: there's also an assumption coming from the analyst, and one

1320
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 20: of them is going to be right. Often it's the market.

1321
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 20: Often it's the analyst. A good analyst that has assessed

1322
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 20: it correctly and has identified the market mispricing generally does

1323
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 20: very well. An analyst that misses the risk and misidentifies

1324
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 20: why the discount exists in the first place loses.

1325
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 3: A lot of money. Okay, So, okay, that's very clear,

1326
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 3: thank you, Patrick. Then, now, in some cases the discount

1327
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 3: is big. We're talking millions and millions of rand and

1328
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 3: the people who are involved, so think great as a

1329
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 3: holding company, think arc think whichever are people who are

1330
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 3: all very clever. So why then, if you're a holding company,

1331
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 3: would you structure things in a particular way which means

1332
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 3: that you'll share prices trading at a discount. Is it

1333
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 3: a sign that something is being mismanaged somewhere?

1334
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 19: Well, I'm not sure this mismanaged, Leer's say, because that

1335
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 19: implies an element of willful fraud.

1336
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 14: Sure, but I think what tends to happen is the market.

1337
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 19: Tends not to believe you know the underlying value of

1338
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 19: those businesses, right, so, so so there's a mismash. There's

1339
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 19: a dislocation between let's say you know the sum of

1340
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 19: the path you know, so to speak, where if you

1341
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 19: were to unbundle you know, which tends to be the

1342
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 19: case in terms of trying to unlock value and close

1343
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 19: the discount where you find that you know, this better

1344
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 19: price discovery upon unbundling, and therefore that are discount closes.

1345
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 19: But most often than not, it's the market just not

1346
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 19: believing whatever the underlying value may be. And what tends

1347
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 19: to happen is, you know, the disbelief tends to come

1348
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:13,600
Speaker 19: around because you do not have much visibility into some

1349
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 19: of those businesses. So you find that they're unlisted, they're

1350
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 19: very sort of a niche and maybe a bit more

1351
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 19: tricky to find information about because the disclosure is not

1352
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 19: that fantastic. So so the market then places a discount,

1353
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 19: often above perhaps what the directors may say, you know,

1354
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 19: those are assets are held at So you then end

1355
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 19: up with a business that is trading at a discount

1356
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 19: to some of the paths, and then the discountant as

1357
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 19: said it tends to then get closed up. Sme, there's

1358
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 19: better visibility, especially if those businesses are also making money

1359
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 19: and you can see the cash coming through and there's

1360
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 19: better disclosure and all those good things. Or if management

1361
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 19: decides that, look, this discount is not reflective of the

1362
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 19: true value of the ondling holdings, and therefore they would

1363
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 19: like to you know, spin it out and list that

1364
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 19: the something lying separately, or you know, give them back

1365
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 19: an unbundle and therefore unlock a very for shovel us

1366
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 19: that way.

1367
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 3: This also then, so Gary, does a discount always close

1368
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 3: or can I go on like this for a very

1369
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 3: long time?

1370
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 20: No, it definitely doesn't always close. So it's Yeah, discounts

1371
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 20: can can last for ages, and there's plenty of examples

1372
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 20: of them, and the Naspasa is a perfect example. I

1373
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 20: mean the discount inside naspas. If you do, as Patrick saying,

1374
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 20: some of the parts valuation, you take they're holding in

1375
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 20: ten cent, you kind of value all the underlying businesses

1376
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 20: you add them all together. That's some of the part's calculation.

1377
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 20: That discount has been around perpetually. And I mean, now

1378
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 20: you know after obviously you know, obviously moving the process,

1379
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 20: listening you know into Europe, they're now trying financial engineering

1380
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 20: to close the discount. It's literally sell off pieces of

1381
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 20: ten cent to generate cash so we can buy our

1382
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 20: own stock to try and force the mechanics of the

1383
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 20: market to come together, because they are holding onto this

1384
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 20: belief that it's just too big and that the broader

1385
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 20: market doesn't understand what's going on. And I think that's

1386
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 20: a dangerous assumption, and it's.

1387
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 3: Going to say you're betting against a whole market.

1388
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 20: And I think obviously mentioned the efficient market hypothesis and

1389
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 20: just to build on that, it works better in very liquid,

1390
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 20: you know, very transparent companies at Patrick one hundred percent, right,

1391
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 20: you know where those discounts where you're not getting proper

1392
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 20: price discoveries often where there are opaque assets that you

1393
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 20: can't understand that maybe management understands a lot better than

1394
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 20: you because you don't have the same kind of access

1395
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 20: that they have. And also in smaller cap stocks, I

1396
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 20: mean that you know, those kind of discounts happen all

1397
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 20: the time. Our market is awash with companies that trade

1398
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 20: below the net asset value, for example, because there just

1399
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 20: isn't enough buying and selling. They're not enough people in them.

1400
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 20: When we say the market, who will be talking about

1401
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 20: it's all the buyers and sellers, and if the you know,

1402
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 20: if you're looking at a fairly liquid stock that has

1403
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 20: three or four people buying or selling it on a day,

1404
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 20: that's not proper price discovery, you know. But if you're

1405
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 20: looking at a large into nationally listed business with millions

1406
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 20: of transactions going through every day and huge value, you've

1407
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:08,759
Speaker 20: got to assume that price discovery is pretty good.

1408
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 3: Which means that in video's valuation must be correct.

1409
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 20: It's a great question. That's a great question from an

1410
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 20: efficient market hypothesis point of view. Yes, in videos valuation

1411
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 20: is correct. And what you're looking at there is it's

1412
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 20: just two different mechanisms of value in the stock. Your

1413
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 20: your pricing of the stock is all the buyers and

1414
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 20: sellers deciding, you know, there's enough people buying this that

1415
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 20: feel that there is value, and it's almost like a

1416
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 20: betting market. Yeah, like it's a it's it's the voting

1417
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 20: mechanism in the short term. But you know, the analyst

1418
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 20: that's saying this is way overvalued, they have their own

1419
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 20: set of assumptions. They're one person that's going weight this

1420
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 20: is overvalued because I don't believe that they're going to

1421
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:50,639
Speaker 20: get their warning's growth because I believe. I mean, there's

1422
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 20: obviously Michael Burry is doing the rounds on in video

1423
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:55,640
Speaker 20: at the moment, you know, and there's many reasons that

1424
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 20: he's given why why feels and videos overvalued, But that's

1425
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:01,760
Speaker 20: one man's perception of it, and he's either going to.

1426
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 3: Be right or he's going to be wrong. We're speaking

1427
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 3: to Gary boys and director at rand Swiss, Patrick Matidi,

1428
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 3: head of Equities at Aliwani Capital Partners. We're talking tonight

1429
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 3: about the net about discounts on share prices and why

1430
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 3: they exist. The Black Friday edition sort of of the

1431
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 3: Investment School.

1432
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 10: From The Money Show Step Crouters, is brought to you

1433
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 10: by abs Cid Proud, host of the Africa Impact Matters

1434
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 10: series podcast, perhaps authorized FSP and registered credit provider, The

1435
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 10: Money Show Investment School.

1436
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 3: Eight minutes to eighth. Patrick Mattidi is head of Multi

1437
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 3: Asset Strategies at Alawani Capital Partners. Gary Boysen's director at

1438
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 3: rand Swiss. We're discussing the shared discounts. Why it is

1439
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:49,360
Speaker 3: that some shairs traded a discount to the underlying value.

1440
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 3: Patrick This is really a bigger question about assessing value.

1441
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 3: So if you assess capy Tech, for example, capy Tech

1442
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 3: is not the sum of the total value of its

1443
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 3: branches and its IT infrastructure and its cash holdings. It's

1444
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 3: actually something completely different. It's it's brand, it's the people

1445
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 3: who work for it, it's the management team. There's a

1446
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 3: lot more value in the company that that you can't

1447
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 3: just look at through his book value.

1448
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:24,240
Speaker 14: Yeah, absolutely, Steven, So I think a step back.

1449
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 19: I mean, if if you if you sh you try

1450
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:30,560
Speaker 19: and differentiate between value and price, right, So so the

1451
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 19: you know, the logic goes that values what you get

1452
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 19: and then price is what you pay. Right, and to

1453
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 19: the extent that the two are different than than you

1454
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,680
Speaker 19: know that there's that there n list opportunity. I think

1455
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 19: in the case of let's say Capitec or any other entity,

1456
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 19: you know, what we call value is a function of

1457
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 19: what we see as the true value creation drivers of

1458
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:53,599
Speaker 19: that entity.

1459
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 14: You know, for a shave a wealth creation point of view.

1460
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 14: So so so so yes, you need to understand how

1461
01:11:58,280 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 14: they make money.

1462
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,280
Speaker 19: You need to understan and you know the sustainability of

1463
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 19: other actually go around making money and then place some

1464
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 19: valuation on that to get to a value and then

1465
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 19: compare that number to what the share market is cleared

1466
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 19: telling you. And to the extent that you know the value,

1467
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 19: the underlying intrinsic value is higher than the share price,

1468
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 19: it means that indeed, if you are right in your assumptions,

1469
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 19: there's an opportunity to buy. And the other way also,

1470
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 19: you know, if your your assessment of the true value

1471
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:29,760
Speaker 19: creation potential of this entity, you know, yields a much

1472
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 19: lower value right compared to where the share price is.

1473
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 19: Then obviously in to avoid it, because if you are right,

1474
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 19: I will lose money if you're invest in that entity.

1475
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:40,800
Speaker 19: So so so so yes, and there's a lot that

1476
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 19: can be captured into valuation over and above what you

1477
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 19: can plug into a spreadsheet. You know you need you

1478
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 19: do need to look at another quality of management, right

1479
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 19: be true because are two businesses in the same industry.

1480
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 19: You know, they may have the same drivers you know,

1481
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 19: from an underlying fundamental point of view, but the main

1482
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 19: difference in terms of in a shell of creation and

1483
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 19: then then track record you can lie in one management

1484
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 19: team versus another. And that also a few other factors

1485
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 19: that again you can't plank into spreadsheet. But from a

1486
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 19: qualitative point of view, you do need to consider of

1487
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:14,960
Speaker 19: and above that looking at.

1488
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 3: The numbers, Gary, one of those factors would actually be

1489
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 3: what you believe is going to happen, not what the

1490
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 3: value is now. So often the value of a share

1491
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 3: and video is a good example is forward looking. It's

1492
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 3: what and capitec too, it's what you think is going

1493
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:30,840
Speaker 3: to happen, not what is happening now, which means there's

1494
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 3: an element of prediction of crystal ball gazing to it.

1495
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 20: I would say absolutely that it's not just an element,

1496
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 20: that's the whole game. And if you think about it,

1497
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 20: you know, just from like a really fundamental point of view,

1498
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 20: when you buy a share, what are you buying. You're

1499
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:46,640
Speaker 20: buying an ownership stake in a business. So what do

1500
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 20: you get as an owner of a business. You get

1501
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 20: a claim, You get a claim on all those assets,

1502
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:53,679
Speaker 20: and you get more importantly, claim on all future cash

1503
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 20: flows that that business creates. So I mean the argument

1504
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 20: there is to create the to form your intrinsic value

1505
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 20: in your mind, you need to essentially take all those

1506
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 20: future values of all that cash that's going to be

1507
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 20: generated and present value to today. Because that that is

1508
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:12,040
Speaker 20: essentially what it is, and you've got to just make

1509
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 20: sure that you apply the right discount rate. That's what

1510
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 20: your share price is worth. But when you think about

1511
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 20: it as by becoming an owner of a business, whether

1512
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 20: that's a Capitech, you get to have Capitech indefinitely. Whateveritrac

1513
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 20: creates in value forever is you are going to have

1514
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 20: a claim on that and your assumptions of what that

1515
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 20: potentially can be. That that is the whole game is

1516
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 20: trying to understand how long will Capitech be around creating

1517
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 20: value and repaying it for you, and how much are

1518
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 20: you repaired to pay. The discount value is obviously essentially

1519
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:44,600
Speaker 20: like the inflation rate and plus any risk premium that

1520
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:47,080
Speaker 20: you're going to put on that as well. So yeah,

1521
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:50,160
Speaker 20: that's that's the game. It's trying to work out how

1522
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 20: much are you going to get out of it? I mean,

1523
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:54,559
Speaker 20: Warren Buffett's got a great analogy. He talks about Esop,

1524
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 20: you know, two six hundred years ago, you know, saying

1525
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 20: he's taught you everything you need to know about it investments,

1526
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 20: saying you know, a bird in the hand is worth

1527
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 20: two in the bush. And the question that you've got

1528
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,960
Speaker 20: to ask yourself is also you know, how certain are

1529
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 20: we that there are birds in that bush? And how

1530
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:10,599
Speaker 20: soon can we get those birds out of the bush?

1531
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:12,599
Speaker 20: And then you can decide whether you want to trade

1532
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 20: your bird in the hand for those two in the bush.

1533
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 20: And it's that simple. Patrick, You've got a minute left.

1534
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:22,839
Speaker 3: But as markets would, you would think get more efficient,

1535
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:26,559
Speaker 3: the ways of understanding companies get better. Do you think

1536
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 3: that we will see this kind of thing, this kind

1537
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 3: of shared discount, happening less often? In other words, do

1538
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 3: you think that investment strategies will improve, more mechanisms to

1539
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 3: close the discount will be found, and in fact we'll

1540
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:43,799
Speaker 3: see this happening less often and a discount being closed

1541
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 3: more quickly. Or do you think it's not going to

1542
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 3: work like that at all?

1543
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 14: I think Stephen, the markets obviously do. Do you evolve?

1544
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 19: You now, have you know a much more Let's say,

1545
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 19: you know, sort of a plug doing the world where

1546
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:00,759
Speaker 19: a guy sitting in Cape Town for exams can trade

1547
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 19: any market you know in the world, and and vice versa.

1548
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 19: So so the markets are getting it, you know, a

1549
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 19: lot more efficient what my liquidity is flushing through. But

1550
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:12,639
Speaker 19: I think also, you know, for as long as you'll

1551
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 19: have different players with different approaches in terms of evaluation,

1552
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:19,639
Speaker 19: as seeing the prospects of a company through different lenses.

1553
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 19: You know, you'll always have you know, those discounts opening

1554
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:24,760
Speaker 19: up and closing, right So, I don't think you can

1555
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 19: eliminate you know, that completely at the point where it

1556
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 19: is narrow and unlegetable. But I think you know to

1557
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 19: the extend that also you have companies with their own

1558
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:36,719
Speaker 19: unique circumstances. You know that that that that that environment

1559
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 19: will ebb and flow, and I think for us as investors,

1560
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 19: we should welcome that because that presents and opportunities right

1561
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 19: where if if you are on the right side of things,

1562
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 19: you've done your work, You've done your homework. You know

1563
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:49,640
Speaker 19: you have the ability and the potential. You know we

1564
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 19: can make you a good returns for yourself and for

1565
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 19: free investors.

1566
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Indeed, Gary Boysen's director at rand Swiss,

1567
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 3: Patric Matidious head of Multi Strategies at Aliwani Capital Park

1568
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 3: and is the business of shared discouncil discounts and share values,

1569
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 3: whatever the technical term is. Ahead of Black Friday on

1570
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 3: Investment School, the.

1571
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:12,679
Speaker 10: Money Show Stephen Croutis is brought to you by apsas

1572
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 10: CIB proud host of the Africa Impact Matters series podcast,

1573
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 10: perhaps authorized FSP and registered credit provider.

1574
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 3: Well in the US, on wall streets, the turkey is browning,

1575
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 3: The family is ready, and the car is parked to

1576
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 3: get out quickly tomorrow morning so that everyone can go

1577
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:36,400
Speaker 3: Black Friday shopping because in the United States it's Thanksgiving

1578
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 3: and markets are closed. Unfortunately, Truth Social is open good evening.

1579
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 3: It's eight o'clock