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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk little. The Money Show with Stephen Croutis is

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Speaker 2: brought to you by abscess cib Discover the latest trends

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Speaker 2: shaping digital assets across Africa. Download the ABS Africa Digital

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Speaker 2: Assets Insides twenty twenty five. Good evening, Welcome to the program.

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Speaker 2: Ten minutes after six times Stephen crutis. Quite a packed show,

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Speaker 2: actually partly because of what happened at trans Net today.

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Speaker 2: A nice big ceremony, the handing over if you like,

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Speaker 2: well not really the handing over. Let me let me

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Speaker 2: dial that back, should I say? The signing of the

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Speaker 2: formal agreements between trans Net and International Container Terminal Services Incorporated.

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Speaker 2: A lot more money to go into Peer two in

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Speaker 2: the Port of Durban, A lot of money that's needed

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Speaker 2: eleven billion rand in fact, so very interesting to see

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Speaker 2: how that changes. We'll speak to Andrew Pike, the head

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Speaker 2: of Ports, Transport and Logistics at Bowman's non professor and

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Speaker 2: Haavencher about in just a moment news yesterday as The

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Speaker 2: Money Show is sort of going to air finishing really

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Speaker 2: confirmation about the meetings and the shareholders' decisions at Anglo

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Speaker 2: and a tech they've sealed that fifty billion dollar merger.

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Speaker 2: Speak to Mining David Mackay from Mining MX, the editor

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Speaker 2: there about that in a moment. There's always this. Wherever

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Speaker 2: you look at that merger, you'll hear the phrase merger

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Speaker 2: of equals. It's an interesting phrase. But the real story,

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Speaker 2: I think is going to be about copper and they're

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Speaker 2: going to really have very much control, not quite control,

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Speaker 2: but something close to it of global supplies. Timers Smith,

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Speaker 2: the features writer, film and series reviewer. We'll speak to him.

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Speaker 2: He's a business there on Sunday Times. Netflix has made

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Speaker 2: a seventy two billion dollar bid for Warner Brothers Discovery

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Speaker 2: Paramount suddenly had a counter offer of one hundred and

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Speaker 2: eight billion dollars. At play is the content you watch

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Speaker 2: and how valuable is that content? Really is the question.

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Speaker 2: But also if you think that DStv is probably at

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Speaker 2: this stage going to have to remove some of the

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Speaker 2: Water Brothers channels, how that's going to play out? I

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Speaker 2: think that's going to be a very interesting conversation. And

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Speaker 2: don't forget as well tonight. Of course, now we'll speak

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Speaker 2: to John hunt the person who helped to form Huntless

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Speaker 2: Scarus and then has been working at other agencies, leading

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Speaker 2: other agencies and created some of the most memorable adverts

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Speaker 2: that you can remember rarely looking forward to that conversation

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Speaker 2: tonight on The Money Show, Good to Hear from You

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Speaker 2: O double one DOUAA three oh seven, O two two

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Speaker 2: one four four six O five six seven and Voice

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Speaker 2: Notes tonight on seven two seven oh two one seven

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Speaker 2: oh two.

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Speaker 1: The Lney Show with Stephen Kruders Live on ninety two

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Speaker 1: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 1: Media Plus.

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Speaker 3: NAP and TSTV channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: Well the final ceremony today. It's a twenty five year

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Speaker 2: partnership agreement between trans Net and International Container Terminal Services Incorporated.

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Speaker 2: It'll see Peer two at Durban Harbor being run by ICTSI.

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Speaker 2: Per two is the busiest part of our busiest harbor.

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Speaker 2: It needs a huge amount of investment and to improve

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Speaker 2: the number of containers that can load and unload and

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Speaker 2: particularly the speed at which it does that. Andrew Pike

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Speaker 2: is the head of Ports, Transport and Logistics at Bowman's. Andrew,

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Speaker 2: good evening, Thanks for your time. How do these agreements work,

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Speaker 2: What does ICTSI have to do and what do they

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Speaker 2: get in return.

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Speaker 4: My good evening, Stephen, and thank you for your invitation.

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Speaker 4: So it's not a traditional concession, it's rather the sale

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Speaker 4: of the business of PER two. So what Transit have

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Speaker 4: done is they have formed a special purpose vehicle which

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Speaker 4: will be called Durban Gateway Terminal, so that will be

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Speaker 4: the new name of the terminal in fact. And what

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Speaker 4: they've done is Transit Port Terminals, who were the operators

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Speaker 4: the whole business has been sold to the SPV And

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Speaker 4: what will now happen sort of immediately afterwards and the

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Speaker 4: agreements have all been signed, is that ICTSI will acquire

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Speaker 4: fifty percent minus one share in the SPV and that

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Speaker 4: they will have a majority on the board and they

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Speaker 4: will basically be given operational control of the whole of

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Speaker 4: PER two, so they will be running it completely as

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Speaker 4: they feel fit, but obviously Reporting two transnet and through

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Speaker 4: through the trans net hierarchy you know, up to up

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Speaker 4: to the dot. But it's it's a hugely significant development

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Speaker 4: because first of all, it's the first of its kind

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Speaker 4: in the port sector in South Africa, and it also,

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Speaker 4: assuming it works, it also creates a fantastic blueprint for

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Speaker 4: other PSP projects. And Michelle Phillips at Transnet in a

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Speaker 4: speech this morning mentioned one or two of those other

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Speaker 4: projects that are pending or in the wings.

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Speaker 2: Are they commitments that ICTSI is being held to. It's

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Speaker 2: promised a certain level of investment. If it doesn't live

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Speaker 2: up to that, does that sort of render it all

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Speaker 2: null invoid? Is there a way to kind of make

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Speaker 2: sure that investment happens.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, the purchase price, or the bid price

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Speaker 4: as you'll know it as a competitive bid is the

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Speaker 4: round equivalent of six hundred million dollars. So that will

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Speaker 4: be paid by on the closing date, which will be

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Speaker 4: a few weeks from now. The thereafter they will invest

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Speaker 4: in the in the port, but they will be given

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Speaker 4: in due course some key performance indicators and targets to meet.

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Speaker 4: But overall the game plan is to increase productivity from

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Speaker 4: about the current level of two million TuS which is

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Speaker 4: twenty foot container units per annum to about two point

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Speaker 4: eight that's the game plan. And then obviously they will

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Speaker 4: aim to shorten vessels stays alongside quite significantly. That will

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Speaker 4: have a knock on effect of vessels not sitting outside

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Speaker 4: for so long, and apart from anything else, it ought

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Speaker 4: to bring down the freight rates quite considerably if ships

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Speaker 4: are not sitting around and having to having us pay

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Speaker 4: for them to sit around.

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Speaker 2: And obviously the more they invest, the more cargo gets

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Speaker 2: loaded and unloaded there, and the more money they make

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Speaker 2: from that cargo.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. But of course you know one of the

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Speaker 4: i won't say showstop has been one of the bottlenecks,

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Speaker 4: and I'm sure the Professor Harvinker will will tell you

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Speaker 4: some more about it. But like any port or terminal,

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Speaker 4: unless you've got cargo going through it, it's not going

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Speaker 4: to make money. So you've got to make sure that

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Speaker 4: the cargo gets to and from the hinter land and

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Speaker 4: through the port, and that of course requires the rail

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Speaker 4: services to up their game. You'll also be familiar with

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Speaker 4: the recent irfps and slight allocations to eleven operators, so

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Speaker 4: hopefully the whole system will start working a lot better together.

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Speaker 4: But there are some dependencies and moving cargo back and

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Speaker 4: forth is for one of them.

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Speaker 2: Andrew Pike, thank you so much. The head of Ports,

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Speaker 2: Transport and Logistics at Bowman's Well Professor anhavenher as a

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Speaker 2: professor of logistics at the University of seven Boschon, Director

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Speaker 2: of the Gain Group, Young good evening, Good to talk

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Speaker 2: to you again. We know a lot of work needs

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Speaker 2: to be done at the terminal. What do you expect

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Speaker 2: to change there? What do you think is actually now

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Speaker 2: going to happen to the machinery of that terminal itself.

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Speaker 5: I think it's been mentioned very well now. If we

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Speaker 5: can increase the volumes, if we can decrease the waking times,

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Speaker 5: it will just make the logistics costs in South Africa

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Speaker 5: so much cheaper and so much better. This for me

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Speaker 5: confirms also what the Minister is saying, and that she

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Speaker 5: focuses on improving logistics not necessarily about transmit and this

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Speaker 5: is in many respects the right move to make. I mean,

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Speaker 5: in South Africa, roughly, our domestic cost of transport is

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Speaker 5: equal to the matter of time cost of transport. To you,

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Speaker 5: you move all everything in South Africa that needs to

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Speaker 5: go to ports and come from the ports back into

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Speaker 5: our system, it's just as expensive as the matter of

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Speaker 5: time lead towards the foreign port and most of that

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Speaker 5: a large chunk of that is the cause of delays

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Speaker 5: in the port ships that wait, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 5: So just this is this is a good move in

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Speaker 5: a big way. I'm I'm very art and to hear

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Speaker 5: about this, and it comes in the same year as

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Speaker 5: has been mentioned about the slot sales of getting private

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Speaker 5: private chain operating companies on our over line. A lot

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Speaker 5: of good, good things that are happening in the last

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Speaker 5: three years since our railbaw uh, since our policy has

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Speaker 5: been approved. So I'm very positive about this.

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Speaker 2: So there's going to be a lot of money being invested.

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Speaker 2: How long do you think it all takes before we

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Speaker 2: start to see some improvements. I mean, I presume not

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Speaker 2: day one, but sometimes when the private sector is motivated,

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Speaker 2: you can see a change on day two.

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Speaker 5: I think if you think about ports and you think

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Speaker 5: about their airway and we have to talk about their way,

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Speaker 5: we have a running start yet because Michelle, Michelle understand ports.

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Speaker 5: The previous speaker and referred to Michelle, she understand ports.

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Speaker 5: At some stage of her life she was she was

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Speaker 5: the head of ports, the port terminal operations in Transmit.

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Speaker 5: She understands it. And when she took over the reins

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Speaker 5: about eighteen months ago, a soon she promised us we

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Speaker 5: should make some improvements, and she already started with that.

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Speaker 5: The sport has already improved the terminal has already improved.

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Speaker 5: There's a lot of things that's already in place, So

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Speaker 5: I think we have a running start and things will

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Speaker 5: get better quicker quickly. The problem is that Oway. The

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Speaker 5: problem is that away. Yes we have private sector not anticipating.

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Speaker 5: We've not completely figured out yet how to fix the infrastructure.

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Speaker 5: The oil infrastructure is very broken and that needs to

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Speaker 5: be fixed on. And that specific line from Urban to

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Speaker 5: Johannesburg is a focus line and I have not seen

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Speaker 5: very very specific plans about how we're going to improve that.

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Speaker 5: But we busy with it and we'll get there.

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Speaker 2: You heard Andrew Pike earlier talking about how different the

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Speaker 2: steel was to what tends to happen in South Africa before.

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Speaker 2: How different does this steal to the way other ports

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Speaker 2: are run around the world.

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Speaker 5: It is, I don't I think private sector owned terminals

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Speaker 5: is the normal norm around the world. So in South Africa,

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Speaker 5: the fact that it's all belonged to the same company

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Speaker 5: in South Africa, that this whole mess that we at

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Speaker 5: I should report it the mess. But I mean we're

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Speaker 5: ports a side of these port terminals where roway line

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Speaker 5: infrastructure and rail operations and pipeline everything was thrown into

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Speaker 5: the same company. You go back since we created TRANSMIT,

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Speaker 5: you can even throw in South African Airways as part

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Speaker 5: of this. Transmit at some stage was the biggest road

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Speaker 5: freight operator in South Africa if you go back to

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Speaker 5: nineteen ninety. We needed this unbunding. We really desperately need

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Speaker 5: this unbunding. This is I've always said the problem that

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Speaker 5: we have with TRANSMIT. It's a cheaper problem to solve

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Speaker 5: than ESCOM, but much more complex. There's a huge amount

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Speaker 5: of complexities around that. So moving this, moving the terminal

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Speaker 5: out is really an important step. But we do have

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Speaker 5: either privately owned terminals in South Africa. Obviously, I mean

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Speaker 5: the Riches Bay cold terminal is the biggest example, but

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Speaker 5: there's some others as well. Some of the fuel terminals

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Speaker 5: was also privately owned, so we do have a blueprint

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Speaker 5: for that. It does exist and so they should go well.

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Speaker 5: That should go well. The only only thing that we

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Speaker 5: need to remember is the ministers for setting up a regulator,

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Speaker 5: so a trans single transport economic Regulator, the builder that

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Speaker 5: was signed into law by the Resident last year in junior,

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Speaker 5: if I remember correctly, that still needs to be implemented

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Speaker 5: and a minister's moving fast to do that. I mean

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Speaker 5: she's she's appointed to God, she's beginning to point the management.

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Speaker 5: But the regulator will have to do some catch up

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Speaker 5: year because to some extent we now do have a

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Speaker 5: private sector monopoly. We're one of our largest trade movements

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Speaker 5: in South Africa. So that might be for some people

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Speaker 5: a bit of a waddy, and I can understand why.

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Speaker 5: But I'm sure that catch up will happen and we

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Speaker 5: will get the regulation in place that is important for

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Speaker 5: this professor.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Professor annhavan Has, a Professor of

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Speaker 2: Logistics at the University of Sea Boson, Director of the

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Speaker 2: Game Group. Twenty two minutes after sixteen.

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Speaker 1: That's on The Money Show six to eight pm.

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Speaker 2: We full steam ahead. It seems for the Anglo Tech mergers.

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Speaker 2: Shareholders of both Anglo American and the Canadian firm Tech

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Speaker 2: verting overwhelmingly for them to become one operation. It'll be

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Speaker 2: headquartered in Canada, primary listing in London. The two firms

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Speaker 2: keep repeating it will be a merger of equals. David

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Speaker 2: McKay is the editor at Mining MS. David, A good evening,

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Speaker 2: thanks for your time. Obviously, the management of both of

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Speaker 2: these companies want this merger to happen. Shareholders clearly agree

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Speaker 2: with them. It's obviously unsoppable.

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Speaker 6: Now not quite. It still has to pass some regulatory hurdle,

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Speaker 6: or specifically the Canadian government in terms of the Canada

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Speaker 6: Investment Act, still has to pick over this and decide.

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Speaker 6: I think the acid test is whether it's there's a

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Speaker 6: net benefit to Canada. I think that's what they'll be

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Speaker 6: looking at so that. I think this China regulatory support

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Speaker 6: has to come through as well, based on antitrust issues.

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Speaker 6: But I think, you know, barring a hiccup, the deals through.

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Speaker 6: But it's not done. Util it's done.

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Speaker 2: The two parties keep saying it's a merger of equals.

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Speaker 2: If it's a merger of equals, is that of net

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Speaker 2: benefit to Canada or am I stretching the English language

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Speaker 2: a bit.

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Speaker 6: I think this is a deal simon a tech a

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Speaker 6: scene in Canada, a little bit like Anglo is to ours,

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Speaker 6: even though Anglo I mean think of it in a

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Speaker 6: way as I said, everything company it certainly has its

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Speaker 6: roots here, but not much in the way of assets.

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Speaker 6: Some in Canada tech this kind of occupies a similar

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Speaker 6: place in the corporate history and the landscape as it were,

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Speaker 6: So a deal kind of had to be fashioned that

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Speaker 6: ticked some boxes politically, and so you know, I think

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Speaker 6: Anglo is the company taking over of Tech, certainly, but

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Speaker 6: it has to be presented in a way that you know,

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Speaker 6: meets their Canadian government. So you know, the deputy CEO

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Speaker 6: will be from Tech. The board is a fifty to

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Speaker 6: fifty board and headquartered in Vancouver, and I think Mark Carney,

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Speaker 6: the president, was that was something that he personally insisted upon.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, I mean, is there ever a merger of equals? No,

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Speaker 6: I think one company takes.

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Speaker 2: Over the other.

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Speaker 6: But I mean what I would say Stephen is I mean,

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Speaker 6: there is what's nice about this?

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Speaker 2: Not nice?

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Speaker 6: But why does deal has has kind of when a

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Speaker 6: love of approval is desert strong industrial logic for it,

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Speaker 6: and so it really has that in its favor. It

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Speaker 6: makes a bit of a standout piece of M and

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Speaker 6: A in the mining sector lately.

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Speaker 2: A lot of that. I presume it's because of copper

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Speaker 2: if you look at it, if you look on paper,

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Speaker 2: I mean it's future demandful for copper. That makes a

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Speaker 2: lot of sense. There is a lot of eggs in

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Speaker 2: one basket, though I.

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Speaker 6: Know, I mean I do, I do worry about that.

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Speaker 6: In a sense, it just depends what way you think

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Speaker 6: the copper market's going. Miners are optimistic souls. I guess

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Speaker 6: they have to be, and so they always believe in

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Speaker 6: an ever ascending price of their chosen commodity. In the

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Speaker 6: case of this merger, it's seventy percent exposed to copper.

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Speaker 6: So the notion of it, of their being really a

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Speaker 6: diversified company is rapidly becoming unfashionable and is copper forever

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Speaker 6: heading north crikey. It's a bit of a beat, but

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Speaker 6: it's what investors want.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it seems so. You make such an interesting

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Speaker 2: common and I think we all kind of know about it.

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Speaker 2: The history of Anglo and South Africa in some ways,

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Speaker 2: you know, mining created the modern industrial South Africa we

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Speaker 2: sort of know today, had huge social impacts, brought people together,

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Speaker 2: all of us. Very contested and it's a very difficult history.

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Speaker 2: There are quite a few social groups who sort of

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Speaker 2: see Anglo kind of now as leaving South Africa. Their

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Speaker 2: argument is that Anglo became richer, has essentially taken South

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Speaker 2: African assets, grown rich, and is now really leaving and

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Speaker 2: is not paying the full cost of that. How do

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Speaker 2: you say that. I mean you made the point that

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Speaker 2: most of its assets haven't been in South Africa for

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Speaker 2: some time.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think it is divesting from South Africa.

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Speaker 6: You can't get away from that, but value well to

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Speaker 6: whom I think from an investor point of view, investors are,

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Speaker 6: you know, have gotten good value out of this. So

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Speaker 6: the de merger of our Terra was a success and

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Speaker 6: the demerger of the cold Less it's also into Tungel,

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Speaker 6: has also been a big success as well. I think

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Speaker 6: the pressure comes from the communities who are left behind.

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Speaker 6: I don't have the facts and figures to hand, unfortunately,

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Speaker 6: but Anglo has said it's still committed to let's call

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Speaker 6: it kind of legacy investment and it will still be

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Speaker 6: invested in cumber iron Ore, which has quite a major

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Speaker 6: footprint up in the Northern Cape. So yeah, I mean

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Speaker 6: it's a questionable one. There is Anglo divesting from South Ethicas, sure,

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Speaker 6: but I think it really works for them to make

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Speaker 6: sure that the social investment continues, at least for a time.

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Speaker 2: David Makai, thank you so much. Editor at Mining Imax

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Speaker 2: The Minor Show, Chris Stewarts a portfolio manager at ninety

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Speaker 2: one Chris, Good evening, mister Price. I'm sure quite proud

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Speaker 2: of their acquisition of a nice, new, shiny retail chain

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Speaker 2: in Central and Eastern Europe, but man and investors don't agree.

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Speaker 2: I was told Chris Steward was with us. I don't know, Chris,

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Speaker 2: if you've muted yourself, which I mattered, will be a

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Speaker 2: mistake on your side if that were to happen, unlike

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Speaker 2: Steward was on mute. Congratulations Chris y yes, okay, very much,

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Speaker 2: mister Price. I'm making the point that I'm sure they

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Speaker 2: were quite proud of their acquisition, thought it made a

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Speaker 2: lot of sense, but investors disagree.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, the market responding very negatively to the proposed acquisition today.

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Speaker 7: You know, Okay, let's admit that mister Price is ex

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Speaker 7: divident today. So of the thirty nine percent share price move,

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Speaker 7: maybe one and a half percent can be ascribed.

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Speaker 8: To the exhibdent.

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Speaker 7: But the fact is double digital clients in the share price,

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Speaker 7: in the market really saying they don't like the look

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Speaker 7: of this transaction. Mister Price historically has been quite successful

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Speaker 7: in acquisitions domestically and indeed incorporating those you know those

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Speaker 7: acquisitions domestically and achieving the benefits that they have promised. However,

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Speaker 7: the international expansion track record has been considerably more jaded.

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Speaker 8: And this is a large transaction.

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Speaker 7: I mean, this is a big deal, you know, paying

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Speaker 7: up to I guess close to twenty percent of their

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Speaker 7: market capitalization is the ticket size for this transaction. The

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Speaker 7: balance sheet goes from being in a position of net

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Speaker 7: cash to being in a position of a reasonable amount

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Speaker 7: of net debt, which I don't think the market likes.

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Speaker 7: And the business they're acquiring while operating, I guess, in

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Speaker 7: a value segment that offers plenty of runway for growth,

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Speaker 7: or at least they indicate that it offers plenty of

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Speaker 7: runway for growth. Is a small player in a black market,

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Speaker 7: has been owned by private equity for a number of

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Speaker 7: years and has shown very little growth into what is

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Speaker 7: supposedly this growth market. So, you know, although some of

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Speaker 7: the you know, the business model appears quite similar to

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Speaker 7: mister Price, there's a lot of expo to the German

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Speaker 7: economy in particular, And this is a business that you know,

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Speaker 7: looks like an expensive acquisition. It increases balance sheet risks significantly,

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Speaker 7: and in a business that looks as though it has

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Speaker 7: been performing fairly poorly for a significant number of years.

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Speaker 2: Retail sales figures up two point nine percent year on

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Speaker 2: here in October. We're heading into the busy Christmas season.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, the retail sales number today, another incremental number, I guess,

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Speaker 7: another slight notch on the essay consumer belt, indicating that,

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Speaker 7: you know, perhaps the South African consumer is not as

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Speaker 7: dead as everyone perhaps was discounting, you know, lower interest rates,

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Speaker 7: slightly better jobs numbers, a slightly more optimistic consumer. And

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Speaker 7: that's reflected again today in a reasonably robust retail sales

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Speaker 7: number that builds on the back of last month's retail

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Speaker 7: sales number and some signs. If you speak to those

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Speaker 7: in the market who have direct exposure to the Schumak

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Speaker 7: engaged with all the banks quite recently, they are, I guess,

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Speaker 7: cautiously optimistic that things are looking a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Better and very quickly. The Fed tonight, I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think most people are expecting a cut, but the tone,

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Speaker 2: the comments from Donald Trump quite recently, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: to look for.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Davis cut or Hawker's cut. I think, you know,

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Speaker 7: the twenty five basis point cut is fairly secure.

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Speaker 2: If that doesn't come through.

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Speaker 7: Then you know we're going to see a fairly violent

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Speaker 7: negative market reaction to it. But I think that's probably

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Speaker 7: fairly secure. It's all about what does the FED forward

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Speaker 7: looking dot pluck look like. Do they indicate more than

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Speaker 7: one rate cut next year? Currently sort of only indicating

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Speaker 7: one twenty five bases point cut next year at the

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Speaker 7: market until recently looking for three, still looking for two.

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Speaker 7: So I think there's a fairly significant chance that the

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Speaker 7: outlook is disappointing relative to market expectations. But we must

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Speaker 7: remember that the current FED governor is not likely to

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Speaker 7: be in charge for that much longer, and maybe we

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Speaker 7: see a more davish appointment put in that is more

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Speaker 7: leaning towards I guess what the President of the United

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Speaker 7: States would like, and that is the more aggressive break cuts.

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Speaker 2: Christia, thank you so much, Portfolio manager. At ninety one,

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Speaker 2: Just after six thirty, Stephen has gone X at ab Stephen, Well,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how much attention you've paid to the

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Speaker 2: conversations about the NHI here on the Money Show, but

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Speaker 2: the Money Show being well, I suppose the Money Show

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Speaker 2: we've probably on balance had maybe just over probably over

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Speaker 2: half of the voices. Probably a little bit more than

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Speaker 2: half of the voices you've heard have been people who

404
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Speaker 2: are opposed to the NHI, the National Health Insurance Scheme,

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Speaker 2: and that that doesn't surprise me. They're many people in

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Speaker 2: our society who are opposed to it. But I was

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Speaker 2: just thinking about that a little bit when I looked

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Speaker 2: at the results of a new survey. It's from the

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Speaker 2: Institute for Justice and Reconciliation. They're barometer. They do a barometer,

410
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Speaker 2: they do a big pole, they ask people all sorts

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Speaker 2: of questions from their pole. Sixty one percent, sixty one

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Speaker 2: percent of people in South Africa support the NAHI. And

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Speaker 2: just to sort of reminder, I suppose where the majority

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Speaker 2: of our country is, sixty one percent of people support

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Speaker 2: the concept of an NHI. I should also tell you

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Speaker 2: that very few people trust politicians, but I didn't tell

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Speaker 2: you because you knew that already. Seven two with.

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Speaker 8: Stephen Email him on Stephen at seven O two dot

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Speaker 8: co DOTZA.

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Speaker 2: Thirteen minutes to seven. Well, in the US, that massive

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Speaker 2: corporate fighter is underway, probably going to have an impact

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Speaker 2: on what you watch on your phone or TV and

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Speaker 2: how much you pay for it. Warner Brothers Discovery. They've

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Speaker 2: been in talks to merge with Paramount Skydance. Netflix then

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Speaker 2: actually said they would buy the studio and streaming parts

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Speaker 2: of Warner Brothers Discovery, the good parts. Paramount then launched

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Speaker 2: a hostile takeover bid. Timon Psmith is a features writer,

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Speaker 2: film and series reviewer Time and Good Evening. These are

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Speaker 2: literally the biggest American names in international entertainment. What are

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Speaker 2: they really in fighting for? At the back of this,

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Speaker 2: I presume it's content and Warner Brothers.

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Speaker 3: I'll see runnan hear to your listeners. Yes, obviously the

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Speaker 3: major prize here for both is Warner Brothers and the

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Speaker 3: archive of HBOS, and there'll be a few subscriber benefits

435
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 3: from whoever wins the battle as far as HBOS, Warner

436
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 3: Brothers of streaming service HBO Max is content, although there

437
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 3: is obviously a lot of overlap between people who subscribe

438
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 3: to both Netflix and HBO Max and vice versa for.

439
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: Paramount, how valuable is the content? Paramounts are offering a

440
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 2: lot more money than Netflix. Is it really worth it?

441
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: I mean, one offer is seventy two billion, the others

442
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 2: one hundred and eight billion dollars.

443
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 3: I think Netflix obviously only want the content. I mean

444
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 3: as well, they want the studio, they want they want

445
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 3: HBO and they want HBO mix. Paramounts wants everything, including

446
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 3: the television side of things, so they would also then

447
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 3: gain control of CNN and discovery products. So for them,

448
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 3: I suppose for subscribers, ultimately we don't have much control

449
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: over you know how this all ends up. But for subscribers,

450
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 3: I would imagine that the Netflix deal is better in

451
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 3: so far as you'll get more access to better product

452
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 3: at one place, and eventually, obviously they will charge more,

453
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 3: but subscriber fees are currently limited by rising costs of

454
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 3: living fees all over the world, which also put a

455
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 3: damper on how much streaming services can increase their fees.

456
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 3: If people are so they still want customer paramount for

457
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 3: me is probably the more dangerous option, and that's just

458
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 3: based on the fact that you know, ever since the

459
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 3: Skuydance murder, they have done all sorts of things to

460
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 3: bend over backwards for Donald Trump. As you know, you

461
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 3: see what they did at CBS. The idea of them,

462
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 3: of of David Ellison and Paramounts Guidance been in charge

463
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 3: of something like CNN doesn't seem to be a good

464
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 3: idea for the future of what's left of the idea

465
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 3: of kind of free and fair and you know, objective media.

466
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what would happened in the CNN newsroom,

467
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 2: talking of which I mean DStv are still in negotiations

468
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: with Warner Brothers to try and keep CNN on their platform.

469
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: There are other channels too, but I would imagine that

470
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: if you're DStv or Can Plus, I should say, quite

471
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: hard to get Warner Brothers attention. At the moment.

472
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 8: It's quite hard.

473
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 3: Obviously. They reports are saying that they basically stuck because

474
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,719
Speaker 3: can our clue don't want to come up on their price.

475
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 3: As far as the office concern, now, with all of

476
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 3: this that's happening, it's going to only create lesson make

477
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 3: less and less attention available to us as far as

478
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 3: the parent company is concerned. But the contracts for those

479
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 3: shows for multifor can Alt Blue runoffs at the end

480
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: of this month, so I'm not quite sure where it's

481
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 3: going to leave them. And obviously they're customers who are

482
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: already quite upset about this announcement.

483
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: I'm sure Time and Smith, thank you. Features writer, Film

484
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 2: and series reviewer appreciate the time. Nine minutes to seven.

485
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 9: The Money Show Steeple Protest is brought to you by

486
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 9: Abscess the ib Discover the latest trends shaping digital assets

487
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 9: across Africa. Download the Africa Digital Assets inside twenty twenty five.

488
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 2: We're going to hear from you tonight and you might

489
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: well have been affected by this next story because news

490
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 2: breaking overnight the financial sector. The Financial Sector Conduct Authority

491
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 2: finally issuing fines of more than two billion round on

492
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 2: the trading platform Banks. So it's been found guilty of

493
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: lying to clients, misappropriating funds, promising unrealistic returns to clients.

494
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 2: I suppose if you remove the legal language, I mean,

495
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: it looks a lot like they were just stealing money.

496
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: Let me put it like this, Certainly their clients are

497
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 2: the ones who are out of pocket. The directors HARDL.

498
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 2: Seckler and Warwick Schneider are now liable for the fines.

499
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: Another director, Manuel de Andrada, has been fined twenty million Rand.

500
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: To other people, Muhammad Bux and Henry Simpson have been

501
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: fined as well. Unie Saba is an independent financial trainer

502
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: and coach. Unice good Evening, Good to talk to you. Again,

503
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: so many people have lost so much money here. There

504
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 2: are so many I don't know, platforms scams like this.

505
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: Why are they so difficult to stop?

506
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 3: Good Stevens.

507
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 10: It's going to be difficult for them to be stopped

508
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 10: by whoever they's government or the SECA and everybody else,

509
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 10: because they've seen the loops. They've been studying the system.

510
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 10: They study the financial systems, the banking system, and they

511
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 10: also study consumer behavior, and they've identified how gullible we are,

512
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 10: particularly when it comes to things like investments. Most of

513
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 10: the consumers or potential investors, banking clients are looking for

514
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 10: opportunities to grow their money. They're looking for investments that

515
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 10: yield a better return, that give a higher interest rate.

516
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 10: So that's where we are gullible. Now, these cameras will

517
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 10: take opportunity of such behavior and they will put forward

518
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 10: a proposition that says, if you bring so much over here,

519
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 10: as opposed to your bank that gives you peanuts, we

520
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 10: will give you, you know, triple the interest, you know,

521
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 10: three not three percent, but we can go seven, eight, ten, twelve,

522
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 10: up to fifteen. I've seen one that offers twenty percent

523
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 10: interest rate. I mean, ask yourself, how do they do that.

524
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 10: We've had a debate before on one of my sessions

525
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 10: when we were talking about this, to say no, the

526
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 10: people that offer a higher interest rate are actually legit

527
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 10: because the bankers are the ones that are scamming us.

528
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 10: They are in a position to give a higher interest rate,

529
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 10: but they choose not to. So when these guys come

530
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 10: with a better interest rate, we think that's actually what

531
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 10: we deserve, and as a result, we will fall for

532
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 10: such illusions and propositions, if I may call it that.

533
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: I imagine that social media is a big part of this.

534
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: This is where the advertising comes in. This is people

535
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: are this is how they get their message out, and

536
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 2: this is also where you have an audience of people

537
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: who are kind of lapping it up and not always

538
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: thinking critically.

539
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 6: Very true.

540
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 10: Now now that you mentioned social media, Steven, how many

541
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 10: banks that we know would put in an advert and

542
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 10: lure you to come and invest via social media. So

543
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 10: that's one of the redfles that we need to look at.

544
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 10: How do ordinary well known, well good standing banks or

545
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 10: financial institutions would would advertise and try and attract new

546
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 10: money from new clients via social media. So we need

547
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,719
Speaker 10: to look at the trends. We need to look at

548
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 10: the patterns. And no, social media is growing as a

549
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 10: platform for advertising. But look at look at the body

550
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 10: of the advert, look at.

551
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 8: The language used.

552
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 10: Yes, schemers will try and copy and mimic whatever else

553
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 10: that the companies do, their financial institutions do. But if

554
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 10: we if we peel our eyes and get to know

555
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 10: how the bank, your bank advertises, how your bank speaks

556
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 10: to you, try and be knowledgeable and and and spot

557
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 10: the difference. You know, you know those games that we

558
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 10: usually play that say spot the difference. They usually is

559
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 10: a little bit of something that is off, something that

560
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 10: is odd, even though it looks legit. Then let's say

561
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 10: they're good enough, and it's it's looking almost proper legit.

562
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 10: The lesson here is hang up. Once you've spoken to them,

563
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 10: they've sold to you whatever they are selling, and they've

564
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 10: made these beautiful promises, it is okay. Do not take

565
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 10: up the deal right away, hang up, phone back, rather

566
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 10: call your bank or call somebody else to verify this

567
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 10: offer that you've just gotten. Or maybe if you feel

568
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 10: it sounds so good, maybe pay them a visit in person.

569
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 10: Because you don't know them, you're dealing with them for

570
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 10: the first time. If it is from someone that says

571
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 10: you bank with bank X, and they claim they're also

572
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 10: calling from your bank, call your bank back on the

573
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 10: normal number and ask for their maybe investment department, and

574
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 10: speak to an investor or an investment specialist from your bank,

575
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 10: and you will therefore find that ninety percent of the

576
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 10: time that was incorrect. The banker who will call you

577
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 10: by name, and they have a different way of verifying you.

578
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 10: Another thing that we need to be very cautious on, Stephen,

579
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 10: is just singing your name and singing your ID number

580
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 10: two people that you've never spoken to. So when they

581
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 10: start asking for your personal details, I normally say, what

582
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 10: is this about? What are we talking about? No, it's

583
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 10: a beautiful investment product, is what investment is it? Then

584
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 10: they tell me what is it that you're talking about?

585
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 10: So to sign you up today? It's a specialty. The

586
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 10: interest rate has gone to have been everything. Thank you

587
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 10: very much. Let me think about it. Let's talk tomorrow.

588
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 10: When they start pushing, then I know that it's not right.

589
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: Is there something about South Africa that makes us more vulnerable?

590
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: And I can think of two things. Perhaps the one

591
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: is that financial education until recently wasn't really something that

592
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 2: was taught in school. It is a bit more now.

593
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: And the other is that we as South African has

594
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: actually spend a lot more time online and on social

595
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: media than people in many other countries. Is that a

596
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 2: bad mix?

597
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 10: Very true, not a bad mix at all. You actually

598
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 10: hear it on the name. Financial education is lacking in

599
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 10: South Africa for some people that get to know that,

600
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 10: they've gotten to know about it because finances are so

601
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,479
Speaker 10: personal and there's an African where they say we have

602
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 10: come we veryclme, very shy to talk about, uncomfortable to

603
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 10: talk about our own finances. So when we have an opportunity,

604
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 10: as I said you said earlier on that I conduct

605
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 10: financial education financial sessions to groups or individuals and coaching

606
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 10: people are very very very bottled up when it comes

607
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 10: to their finances. That's where we fall short because when

608
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 10: the information is available, we are not free and comfortable

609
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 10: to go out and get it and also open up

610
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 10: about our mistakes in front of financial shortcoming so that

611
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 10: we can be coached to say it's best to do

612
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 10: it this way. That's one.

613
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 6: Two.

614
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 10: On social media, Yes, we spend a heck of a

615
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 10: lot of time on social media, reading on stories and

616
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 10: other people's experiences, and maybe that's where also these cameras

617
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 10: find an opportunity to flood us with what seems attractive

618
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 10: interest rates. But thirdly, Steven, is that we have an

619
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 10: element of being gullible of looking for builder a better yield,

620
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 10: better paying investments in order because we are not knowledgeable

621
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 10: with a trend, so that you are able to spot

622
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 10: what looks odd out of the ordinary.

623
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: Unis thank you so much, Uni Sabia as an independent

624
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: financial trainer and coach. You are the Money Show in

625
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: about half an hour. John Hunt, the co founder of

626
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: Huntlascaris and TBWA, he'll be on your radio. It's seven o'clock.

627
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 9: And now The Money Show with Stephen Scridits on.

628
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 2: Seven oh two. Let's walk little. The Money Show with

629
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 2: Stephen Crotus is brought to you by Absters cib Discover

630
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: the latest trends shaping digital assets across Africa. Download the

631
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 2: Africa Digital Assets Insights twenty twenty five. Well lots to

632
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: come as eight minutes after seven. Don't forget John Hunt,

633
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 2: the co founder of TBWA and Huntla Scars. It's been

634
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: in advertising since nineteen eighty three. What did he do

635
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 2: before advertising? I hear you ask will be my first

636
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: question to him when he joins us. He'll be our

637
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 2: shape shift to this evening from seven thirty. Also lost

638
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: to ask about Nando's. He played a big role in

639
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 2: their advertising campaigns. And why has no one copied them?

640
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: They generate so much word of mouth they have over

641
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: the years. Why does no one sort of do the

642
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: same kind of thing? Are they too scared? Are they

643
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: too chicken? I don't know, we'll ask. I think there's

644
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 2: some interesting questions there. And also if you look at

645
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: how advertising has changed, she went from the kind of

646
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: big budget looks like a movie for thirty seconds, kind

647
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: of huge amounts of money spent on the execution to

648
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: a kind of digital advertising which follows you around the

649
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: webin is just irritating and pops up and gets in

650
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 2: the way. Where's advertising going?

651
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 8: Really?

652
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 2: Looking forward to our shape shifter tonight, John Hunt. Also,

653
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: of course we'll speak to Superba Moil in a moment

654
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 2: about organizational behavior and talking about business unusual. And then

655
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 2: your consumer Ninja Wendy Nola don't forget, she'll be with

656
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 2: you in a little while as well. Well, you know

657
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: how to get in Touch A double one doua A

658
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 2: three seven two two one four four six O five

659
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,479
Speaker 2: six seven and Voice Notes tonight on seven two seven

660
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 2: oh two one seven oh two.

661
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: The Loney Show with Stephen krutis live on ninety two

662
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

663
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: Media Plus.

664
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 11: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

665
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: Well you'll know, of course, the A and C is

666
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 2: holding its National General Council in Boxburg, their sort of

667
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: midterm review if you like, and there are quite a

668
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 2: few questions to ask around it. But the Deputy President,

669
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: Paul Matchettila, he gave an interview I think it was

670
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 2: to the Sunday Times, but I saw it in Business

671
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: Day Now. He said that one of the things the

672
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: ANC needed to do was regulate the funding of internal

673
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 2: leadership campaigns in the A and C. And this gets

674
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 2: to the heart of one of the big problems in

675
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: the party. Everyone who knows the A and C's followed it.

676
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 2: If you've been sort of awake over the last twenty years,

677
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: you'll know this that people are able to go into

678
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: the A and C, spend huge amounts of money and

679
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: basically win a campaign. For years, the A and C

680
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: itself has complained that in leadership election years, the number

681
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: of branches would suddenly explode because each branch would send

682
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 2: a delegate and it only costs you twelve rand a member.

683
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: You have one hundred members, you have a new branch,

684
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 2: one thousand grand. Suddenly there you are. So you know,

685
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: all sorts of things that have been happening around this

686
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 2: and on paper, I mean, in principle you would have

687
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 2: to agree with the Deputy President. Of course, the party

688
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: needs to regulate the funding of internal elections, but isn't

689
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 2: it a bit like asking the sun to go the

690
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: other way? I have no idea how you would go

691
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 2: about and do that. Would you make them put their

692
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 2: hands in their hearts and say we pledged to be

693
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 2: open and honest their politicians, sir? I mean, come on,

694
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 2: as the Institute for Reconciliation reminds us, most of us

695
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 2: don't trust them. There's a reason for that, politicians. That

696
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: is so, I don't know how you fix this. I

697
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 2: don't actually think that you can. And I think in

698
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 2: some cases we might see a huge amount of money

699
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: being spent on internal leadership battles and political parties that's

700
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: out of all portion so what those parties are spending

701
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: in elections. I mean, because whoever wins would really be

702
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 2: in power. Certainly that's what we've seen in the past.

703
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 2: I do think where politics is changing, that's no longer

704
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: the case sounds interested in what Muchatilaz said. But internal

705
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: spending on internal election leadership campaigns in political parties is

706
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 2: a bit like a black box to me. I have

707
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: no idea what's inside there, and it may at some

708
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: point be the case in the DA too. I have

709
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 2: no idea how much an election an internal election campaign costs,

710
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 2: but it must cost something. I do wonder if you've

711
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 2: got any suggestions On seven two seven oh two one

712
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 2: seven oh two. It's twelve after seven.

713
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 11: Show Business Unusual.

714
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: Sapiare Moyo is the organizational behavior specialist, and he joins

715
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 2: us now with Business Unusual, so perware high, good evening.

716
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 2: The human habits we've abandoned, you sort of suggesting we

717
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 2: bring them back in twenty twenty six. What kind of

718
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 2: human habits are you thinking about?

719
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, good evening, Steven and I thought, as we are

720
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 6: nudging ourselves towards the end of the year, I think

721
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 6: we need to talk about some of the things I

722
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 6: think we have abandoned. So if you just think about

723
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 6: how our life are, our lives are at the moment,

724
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 6: if really I've created our lives carriers attach. We have

725
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 6: a lot of comfort. But I think along the way

726
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 6: some of the things that we've dropped that are hugely

727
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 6: important for our well being around our invite us to

728
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 6: think about them as we had to the breaks. It's

729
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 6: just simple habits that really really grunted us, and we

730
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 6: took them for granted. Those the time I walked everywhere,

731
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 6: all the time I had unstructured time outside. I think

732
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 6: taking slow, aimless walk, just working for its own sake

733
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 6: and not rushing too much. And I don't know about

734
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 6: used even if you've ever tried to have and unguarded

735
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 6: conversations without an agenda with a stranger these days, and

736
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 6: I think people are so guarded because of obviously the

737
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 6: world that we're in. But we know that those are

738
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 6: the type of things we need and we want to

739
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 6: detach from work because they're almost like our natural regulators.

740
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 6: I think they come, they never system. They give us

741
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 6: micro moments of recovery. So and I invite us to

742
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,280
Speaker 6: be human this December and have conversations love with the stranger.

743
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 6: Put that phone away. On that queue, I need to

744
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 6: say the bank, but we don't even go at the

745
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,919
Speaker 6: bank brand anymore. Maybe when you're going over that till

746
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 6: and have a conversation.

747
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: And I mean, I was going to say, I could

748
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 2: sum up all of your suggestions by saying, just throw

749
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 2: your phone away. So much of the kind of you know,

750
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: there's a famous poem the world is too much with us,

751
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: But that was before phones. Something really does seem to

752
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 2: have changed in human beings in the last twenty years

753
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: about how connected we are compared to how connected we

754
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: used to be.

755
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 8: Oh.

756
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 6: Absolutely, and the phone has exacerbated that. But I think

757
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 6: slightly before that, I think the pace and pressure, the

758
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 6: culture of being always on. I think somehow we've gone

759
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 6: into a point where we've garified the hussle culture, email, what'sapp,

760
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 6: we have the fear of missing out. We've normalized this

761
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 6: idea that you have to be always connected. And I

762
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 6: think how people panic, for example, when I put my

763
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 6: phone away, Oh my goodness, you can't be contacted. But

764
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 6: I think that's that excessive productivity culture is really bad.

765
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 6: But what is even why is that it is so

766
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 6: ingrained in us now that if something doesn't look productive,

767
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 6: you aterually feel guilty without anybody else saying anything about you.

768
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 6: So you're sitting outside, you're walking a little bit slowly,

769
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 6: and you feel guilty. You feel like chetting to an

770
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 6: avia is a.

771
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 8: Waste of time.

772
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 6: I mean, you see the gods up when you just

773
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 6: greet a neighbor wherever we are. And this organization and

774
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 6: digital life more time indoors is unfortunately not served us

775
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 6: well for natural things that we used to do naturally.

776
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 6: And I think we might have to think about that

777
00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 6: as we head to the print.

778
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: Do we sometimes forget the things that actually make us happy?

779
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: And I'll give you a couple of examples of what

780
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 2: I think actually do genuinely make us happy. I had

781
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: the wonderful privilege over the weekend Sunday afternoon, found myself

782
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 2: with a group of old friends just sitting around a

783
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: table talking. Yes there was you know, a glass of

784
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 2: something cold too, but just sort of sitting around talking,

785
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 2: not doing anything else but that kind of connection. No

786
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 2: one was looking at their phones. And sometimes I've been

787
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: with people where you know, someone will say I think this,

788
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: and someone will say, no, that fact is wrong, and

789
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: I'll say, don't get your phones out. Let's rather have

790
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: the argument, because that's a lot more fun than knowing

791
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: who's actually right. I'm not interested in being right. I

792
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: want to have the conversation.

793
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 6: Oh absolutely. I think we've forgotten that. And one of

794
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 6: the things that we will forgotten Stevin, is that human beings,

795
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 6: generally speaking, we are so bad at knowing what will

796
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 6: actually make us hippy. So our minds lie to us

797
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 6: about what are the things that will actually make us happy.

798
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 6: So we think solitude, being alone all the time will

799
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 6: make us happy. In fact, when you get that invitation

800
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 6: to go and have some social connection with your friends,

801
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 6: you dread it sometimes. But we are so bad at

802
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 6: this that research has proving time and time again that

803
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 6: anticipatory anticipating emotion is not something.

804
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 8: That we do well.

805
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 6: So most of the time we think that situation will

806
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 6: be bad, but it turns out to be far better

807
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 6: than the things that we thought we would do. So

808
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 6: social connection we will never go wrong because it could

809
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 6: cor regulate our emotions. But I think we've reached that

810
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 6: point where we listen to our brain a little bit

811
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 6: too much about what will make us hapepy. So we

812
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 6: think being closed we've reached a point where we believe,

813
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 6: you know, all of us are now introverted to have

814
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 6: conversations with people, but taking care of relationships. Unstructured conversations

815
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 6: with friends and those types of things are the things

816
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 6: that actually make us happy. And one of the reasons

817
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 6: that is is that most of our conversations are no

818
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 6: longer at the relaxed pace that you had with your friends.

819
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 6: For example, these past weekends were now used to modern

820
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 6: conversations being transactional networking and pitching and strategizing, and so

821
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 6: these conversations that you had over the weekend where we're

822
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 6: really trying to impress each other, even that argument, even

823
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 6: if you lose it, you don't care, right, You're not

824
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 6: trying to get anything from your friend. There's no anyal,

825
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 6: there's no strategy behind what you're doing. You're having conversations

826
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 6: for being for its sake and just being human. That's

827
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 6: spiring of conversations. Those are the things that we've forgotten

828
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 6: that actually the things that make us happy. And I

829
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 6: want to provoke us and implore us to go bick

830
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 6: to those things.

831
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 2: Has something changed in how we see strangers, but strangers,

832
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 2: I mean people we don't know yet, And I mean

833
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: there's a wonderful phrase. I think that British people say

834
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 2: this of American people, and they mean it in a

835
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: slightly disparaging, in a slightly negative way. They say Americans

836
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: see strangers as friends they haven't met yet, and that's

837
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: not what British people do. But I wonder sometimes in

838
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: cities that stranger, Oh, if you're a stranger, you're a danger,

839
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 2: and there is that lack of talking, whereas in other areas,

840
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 2: if I go on holiday to a rural area and

841
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: you see someone, you're much more likely to have a

842
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 2: conversation with them than you are in a city. And

843
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: I think it's actually getting harder to kind of remove

844
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 2: my city vibe from when I'm in a rural area.

845
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 6: Oh, Steven, I think you've hit enough, because I think

846
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 6: you know many of us.

847
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 8: That's why many of.

848
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 6: The people who have home in rural areas are so

849
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 6: happy to go back home, because there's something that they

850
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 6: connect with that many of us in the cities are

851
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 6: just not getting, and the idea that conversations with strangers

852
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 6: can actually be both safe and beneficial. But I think

853
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 6: we've become so cautious. The world has moved into a

854
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 6: point where somebody that you don't know might potentially be criminal.

855
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 8: It's not safe.

856
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 6: And therefore we've actually created situations where we're contributing to

857
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 6: our loneliness that a potential conversation with someone we no

858
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 6: longer see it as an opportunity to get any new perspective.

859
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 6: And I think we've become inward looking so much to

860
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 6: a point that we're not benefiting from these things, and

861
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 6: and and that sense of community is definitely drinking because

862
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 6: you are not opening ourselves up. So one of the

863
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 6: things I've tried to do now, you know, is to

864
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 6: intentionally have a different posture. When I go to my

865
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 6: favorite restaurant for coffee where I sometimes work, I put

866
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 6: my headphones down a little bit and I have a

867
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 6: posture where I want to say hi to somebody.

868
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 2: And if you think about.

869
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 6: It, restaurants are generally a safe place. But because we

870
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 6: have not trained ourselves to open our stands anymore, we

871
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 6: have a close stance. And I think it might just

872
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 6: be beneficial for us to trust your guard again and

873
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 6: open yourself up again, because there are certain pleasures that

874
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 6: you can just get from a conversation that flow almost

875
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 6: like a random ping pong with somebody else's delightful and

876
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 6: the benefits are absolutely incredible.

877
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 2: I've been watching, and I'm sure you have two watching

878
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,879
Speaker 2: all of the conversations in the commentary around Australia's ban

879
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 2: on social media for people under the age of eighteen,

880
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 2: and I've yet to hear someone say this is a

881
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: bad thing. Everyone seems to think it's a good thing.

882
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 2: If it's a good thing for people who are fifteen,

883
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: I can't help but think it's a good thing for

884
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: someone who's forty five, and that maybe in ten years

885
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: from now we might actually see, you know, people advising

886
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 2: each other as they get older stay of social media.

887
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a brilliant thing for us through Stephen, and

888
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 6: I think many of us are not realizing how how

889
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 6: much we are losing out or not having these conversations

890
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 6: with other people. In fact, we've somehow out thought that

891
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 6: the things that will bring us any joy are found

892
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 6: in phones, and that's because of obviously there's a little

893
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 6: doses of dopamine, but you can tell that after you've scrolled,

894
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 6: nothing is fulfilling. So the kind of feeling you've had

895
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 6: when you when you're with your friends over the weekends

896
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 6: I've had just about two weeks ago, assembled a group

897
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 6: of friends as well, just conversations, and the amount of

898
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 6: fulfillment after that is absolutely incredible. No one looked at

899
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 6: the phone. In fact, one of our friends who like

900
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 6: content taking up their phone to capture and everyone was

901
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 6: like no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no. And

902
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 6: and there's a there's a there's a quiet realization that

903
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 6: we no longer have moments where we could just connect

904
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 6: for its own sake. And it looks like many of us.

905
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: I've realized this.

906
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 6: Now. All we need is that intentionality for you to

907
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 6: put that phone down, for someone to take the initiative

908
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 6: of scheduling the conversations and so on, and just if

909
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 6: you could just have the ability to pin at your

910
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 6: stance and let the universe supprise you to the upside,

911
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 6: because those are the things that really.

912
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 2: Bring us through Sapia with Moya, Thank you so much.

913
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 2: Really enjoyed that conversation. Organizational behavior specialist twenty two minutes

914
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 2: now after seven the time the Money Show consumer Ninja, Well,

915
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, but there's something about

916
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: the car industry at the moment that is keeping Wendy

917
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 2: Nola out Consumer Ninja, very very interested, and I think

918
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 2: it's partly the complexity of what you're actually buying the

919
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 2: value of it, but maybe it's also a comment just

920
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 2: perhaps on the nature of the industry. Wendy Good Evening.

921
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 2: We're looking at warranties tonight. Now, normally, if you look

922
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 2: at the warranty and the service and the maintenance plan,

923
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: you know three years or five years should be three

924
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: years or five years. You're suggesting actually that some cars

925
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 2: have been registered on the Namster system a year before,

926
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: which means instead of three years or five years, you're

927
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 2: getting two years or four years.

928
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 12: How does this happen, Steve Years, It's notally just a

929
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 12: year's discrepancy. And I've had quite a few of these cases,

930
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 12: not a deluge.

931
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 11: But enough so.

932
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 12: And the person normally only finds out when they go

933
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 12: to take the car for the first service, right, so

934
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 12: they you think you think that if you buy a

935
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 12: new car, the date of the start date of the warranty,

936
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 12: the service plan, the maintenance plan, which all carry a

937
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 12: lot of value, right, a.

938
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 11: Huge amount of value.

939
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 12: You think it should be the day you drive the

940
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 12: shining new car off the shore and floor. But in

941
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 12: these cases, when they go for the first service, the

942
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 12: dealership will say, but you've missed a service, And it

943
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 12: turns out the car was registered actually the year.

944
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 11: Before, and they call it a pre sale. That word

945
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 11: could apply to other things, but one of the words,

946
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 11: the terms.

947
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 12: That's used to describe it is a pre sale. And

948
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 12: there are a number of ways. There's reasons for this.

949
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 12: So I was once told in a couple of cases

950
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 12: that it was a sale that fell through at the

951
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 12: last moment, so it was registered in the name of

952
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 12: would be buyer, the warranty, et cetera was activated and

953
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 12: then it fell through and then never disclosed it. Or

954
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 12: it could be the dealership registering with the or the yeah,

955
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 12: registering a sale OEM reports to NAMSA to get to

956
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 12: meet the targets, and then the car is sold a

957
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 12: little while later. Yeah, it can be prejudicial, as you

958
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 12: can imagine.

959
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it can also cost you a huge

960
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 2: amount of money. How does this sort of thing then happen?

961
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm guessing you've been looking at one of

962
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 2: these cases and this has affected someone quite strongly.

963
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 11: It has.

964
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,399
Speaker 12: So in November last year, a debor traded in her

965
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 12: car a Master Dealership and hutting, and she bought a

966
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 12: Cherry Tea Go for Pro as new with just three

967
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,240
Speaker 12: hundred and fifty kilometers on it. So dealership had bought

968
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 12: the car and sold to them as new from a

969
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 12: Cherry dealership. Right when she took it for its first

970
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 12: service last month, so a year after she bought it,

971
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 12: she was told that service had been missed and the

972
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 12: vehicle reflects on Cherry system. So she took a car

973
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 12: to a Cherry dealership, right, it reflects on Cherry's system

974
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 12: as a twenty three model, not a twenty twenty four model.

975
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 12: But it's INATTUS registration certificate is actually has it as

976
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 12: a twenty twenty four model, So it's it's she tried

977
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 12: to sell it to I don't know we about cars

978
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 12: for example, they would not they would take it as

979
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 12: a twenty four model or would be fine. But what

980
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 12: she's missed a year of service, maintenance and warranty, and

981
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 12: she wanted to know, she wanted readress. She either wanted

982
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 12: a new car or she wanted some kind of discount

983
00:53:58,360 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 12: given to her as a refund.

984
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 2: What do you think would have been fair here? I mean,

985
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 2: this is quite a strange thing, and she should she

986
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 2: should have been told beforehand what the real story was.

987
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 2: I mean that for me would be the.

988
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 11: Note of course.

989
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 12: I mean the Consumer Protection Act is all about disclosure

990
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 12: and letting the consumer make a informed decisions.

991
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 11: So the dealer and I had no reason to not

992
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 11: believe him.

993
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 12: He said he bought when he bought the car that

994
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 12: charity Little didn't disclosed any pre sale.

995
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:24,919
Speaker 11: He bought it as a new car, and he thought

996
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,399
Speaker 11: all was well. He seemed pretty reasonable. I engaged with him.

997
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 12: I said, look, the point is that this buy I

998
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 12: should not be prejudiced at all.

999
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 8: So she needs.

1000
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 11: Extra X three year's warranty, service plan and maintenance plan.

1001
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 12: The good news was that that she was happy with

1002
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 12: the car and it had been driving for a year,

1003
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 12: no problem, mechanically sound all good. So I said, well,

1004
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 12: you haven't mentioned in their correspondence. I saw they hadn't

1005
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 12: mentioned anything about the warranty, so that needs to be fixed.

1006
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 11: That's a big one.

1007
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 12: You can't miss out of a year as warranty, and

1008
00:54:58,239 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 12: also the maintenance plan.

1009
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 11: So in the end he's going to make a refund.

1010
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 12: In other words, her give her something to compensate her

1011
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 12: and make sure he's gone to Cherry, that's spoken to them,

1012
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 12: and they're going to sort out between them that she will.

1013
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 11: Get those extra years on all those three covers. So

1014
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 11: all good.

1015
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 12: But again I just thought it was a good I

1016
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 12: don't think you've ever spoken about it, about this particular thing, Steve,

1017
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 12: and it's not something you think to check.

1018
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 11: On a new car, so's nobody.

1019
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 2: The question to ask you isn't isn't a problem then

1020
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 2: that it's actually a twenty twenty three model and not

1021
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 2: a twenty twenty four. I mean, that's still going to

1022
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 2: be a problem.

1023
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 12: I don't know, it's still a twenty twenty four model.

1024
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 12: She's registered as the first owner, and the you know,

1025
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 12: artists registration certificate what do we used to call a

1026
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 12: logbook in the old days, has it as a twenty

1027
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 12: twenty four model. The only place that it's the twenty

1028
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 12: twenty three appears is with Cherry itself.

1029
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 11: So and there's been you.

1030
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 12: Know, undertakings and whatever that she will never be preduced

1031
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 12: by that, and I'm now a witness to that, so

1032
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,760
Speaker 12: I'll make sure it doesn't happen. But on them line

1033
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 12: is you need to ask if you're in a new

1034
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 12: car when is that warrant? When are the warranties and

1035
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 12: plans going to be activated? It must be today when

1036
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 12: I take delivery of the car, and just ask that

1037
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 12: question upfronts that you don't get the nasty shock at

1038
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 12: your first service.

1039
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: I mean, once again, it's back to this. You've got

1040
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 2: to read the fine printing. You've got to before you

1041
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 2: go in. I've always thought it a good idea to

1042
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 2: take a list of questions that you've caught about.

1043
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 12: Yes, I just I'm talking about this because I mean

1044
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 12: even I wouldn't have thought that this could be a

1045
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 12: thing something you needed to check until I got these cases.

1046
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 12: So to add that one to the list is query

1047
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 12: start date of warranty, service plan and maintenance plan.

1048
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 2: Wendy Nola how consumer Ninja, thank you very much, indeed

1049
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 2: really appreciate it for the money. Show Shape Shifters twenty

1050
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 2: three minutes now to eight the time. Well, there are

1051
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 2: very few people who can claim to have been working

1052
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 2: in one field for a very long time and in

1053
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 2: that time have actually had an impact from popular culture,

1054
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 2: nudged it along in some way. One person who's been

1055
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 2: able to do that and has played quite a big role,

1056
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: I think is John Hunt. First he found it the

1057
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 2: advertising agency Huntless Scarrus, who wasn't on his own. Of course,

1058
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 2: he ended up leading the global firm TBWA. He's now

1059
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 2: retiring as their worldwide creative chair. He's done all sorts

1060
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 2: of things along the way and created some of the

1061
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 2: images and messages that you will probably remember. John Hunt.

1062
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 2: Good evening to you, and it's wonderful to meet you,

1063
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 2: and thank you for taking the time to speak to us.

1064
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 8: Hi, Stephen, thanks for asking me.

1065
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 2: I know you started your career in advertising back in

1066
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three, but I promised the Money Show audience

1067
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 2: earlier that I wasn't going to start there. I was

1068
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 2: going to ask what were you doing before that?

1069
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 8: Well? That was kind of embarrassing because I was a

1070
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 8: insurance claims clark who did some prelance writing and someone

1071
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 8: picked up I Giles and said, the hell is aing

1072
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 8: and no deep strategy. But before eighty three, I'd worked

1073
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 8: at one or two agencies, and I've traveled quite a lot,

1074
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 8: but I was essentially a new boy to advertising in

1075
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 8: eighty three, I.

1076
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 2: Mean, in that era, and it's hard to almost describe.

1077
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 2: I sort of see it kind of the media is

1078
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 2: sort of black and white. It just wasn't as rich

1079
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 2: as it is now. We'd only had TV for about

1080
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 2: seven years. Suddenly you come on the scene with huntless scars.

1081
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 2: I think it's regular scars, isn't it. What was driving

1082
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 2: you to do that? What made you think you could?

1083
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 2: You could suddenly kind of almost out of nowhere, as

1084
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 2: you describe it, do that.

1085
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,919
Speaker 8: So it sounds very obvious now, but back in the day,

1086
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 8: advertising was quite sort of a little bit old school

1087
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 8: tie and it was who you knew. And we came

1088
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 8: up with the revolutionary idea of let's see my the

1089
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 8: work it producers, which now obviously sounds very obvious, but

1090
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 8: in those days were quite revelationary. So we would say

1091
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 8: that the clients, you know, we pitch for nothing, our

1092
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 8: work will end up being better and therefore serving your

1093
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 8: purposes more, whether it's getting your brand image or sales.

1094
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 8: So from day one we were about to work, which

1095
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 8: was a kind of obvious thing to say now, but

1096
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 8: back then it was quite you know, quite a revelation.

1097
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 2: Were you putting in more hours than your competitors, you

1098
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 2: must have done I mean, oh yeah, I mean the

1099
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 2: idea is one thing, but a lot of sweat too.

1100
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 8: Yeah, huge amounts of sweat. And you know, that's the

1101
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 8: advantage of being so naive. You don't really know, you

1102
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 8: don't know the rules yet. So of course sometimes you

1103
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 8: run into a brick wall at one hundred miles an hour,

1104
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 8: But then other times you create a new place in

1105
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 8: a new space. And we were very lucky to early

1106
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 8: on get some clients who were sort of a kindred

1107
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 8: spirit and they really helped us as much as you know,

1108
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 8: we helped them.

1109
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 2: This was the mid nineteen eighties, and I mean in

1110
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 2: South Africa was such a different place. It wasn't nearly

1111
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: as free as it is now. There were obviously a

1112
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 2: lot more barriers to creativity. Was it harder to push

1113
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 2: the envelope creatively then than it is now?

1114
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 8: Oh? Absolutely. I mean you have no idea what the

1115
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 8: SABC censorship laws were. We did one. I remember a

1116
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 8: Beachees commercial where we made the mistake of having two

1117
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 8: dancers in a diner touch each other and the one

1118
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 8: was a darker color, so we had to edit that out.

1119
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 8: I mean, it was pretty nutty times and a Part

1120
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 8: eight ruled the SABC, which ruled the airways. It was

1121
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 8: a pretty much a one dimensional show.

1122
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 2: Did that kind of counterintuitively allow you to stand out

1123
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 2: a little bit more if you were prepared to do

1124
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 2: things other people wouldn't and just push that envelope, see

1125
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 2: how far you could go.

1126
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, we very quickly reclaim the sort of the cheeky

1127
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 8: agency and the one that broke the rules. And I

1128
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 8: was forever being hauled up in front of the ASA

1129
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 8: I think it was called in those days, and particularly

1130
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 8: with the early Nando's work, everyone was a bit of

1131
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 8: shock horror, loved it. But at the same time, you know,

1132
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 8: there's many many a grumble about taking the mickey out

1133
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 8: of everything. Basically it was just not dumb.

1134
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 2: I have a strange question about how consumers understand advertising.

1135
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 2: So consumers now compared to their not think consumers now

1136
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 2: and have a great understanding of what advertising is. They

1137
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 2: decode messages, they see messages in a way that they

1138
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 2: understand and they know that it's a core to action.

1139
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 2: But consumers then were not quite in the same place.

1140
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 2: I sort of mentioned that TV was only sort of

1141
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 2: seven years old in South Africa at the time. Was

1142
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 2: it actually harder to get through to consumers then?

1143
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 8: In a funny way, I think it was the opposite.

1144
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 8: I think it was easier because if you got sixteen

1145
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 8: TV commercials on TV SABC TV one, you know, there

1146
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 8: was an age where people found the test pack very interesting.

1147
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 8: So they were locked on a few media to particularly television,

1148
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 8: but radio as well. So there was this sort of

1149
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 8: those days, fewer media but much more concentrated. Now there's

1150
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 8: such a fragmentation of media, it's quite difficult to sometimes

1151
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 8: know when to catch a particular age group to watch TV.

1152
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 8: You know, they scrolling, et cetera, et cetera. So it's

1153
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 8: more finicky from a media point of view, just because

1154
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 8: there's so many options.

1155
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety comes along, and I'm sure, like like everybody,

1156
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 2: you kind of realized that a lot was going to change,

1157
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 2: and you ended up working for the A and C

1158
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 2: in their election campaign from nineteen ninety three. A better

1159
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 2: Life for All I think was their slogan then. And

1160
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 2: now how did that happen? I mean, who made the

1161
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 2: first approach? I mean, did Walter Sosula? Was someone you

1162
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 2: know knock on your door and say, excuse me, are you?

1163
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 2: John hunt Well?

1164
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 8: Almost as mythological is that a gentleman was sitting in

1165
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 8: our reception area a very old suit, was like a

1166
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 8: nineteen sixty suit and a battered briefcase. It really had

1167
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 8: seen some miles and he asked to see me and

1168
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 8: he was a representative of the ANC and it was

1169
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 8: literally that simple. Someone walked into the building and that's

1170
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 8: how we started the chat. And I suppose in those days,

1171
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 8: you know, maybe they knew us a little bit by reputation,

1172
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 8: but then it was very very secretive, lots of third

1173
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 8: force sort of discussions. We were we had to build

1174
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 8: a fence around an agency. We had a couple of

1175
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 8: bomb threats, so it was a very different time. But

1176
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 8: the advantage was that we were in the eye of

1177
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 8: the storm, so we could see everything, you know, while

1178
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 8: history was kind of unfolding. So it was a privilege

1179
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 8: to be part of that.

1180
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 2: I mean, your life changed after that because things went

1181
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 2: kind of international and you went to TBWA and you

1182
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 2: ended up sort of running out the creative director. Obviously

1183
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 2: very different. I mean, your life must have changed from

1184
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 2: kind of South Africa being by that stage a leader

1185
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 2: in this industry and suddenly going global.

1186
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 8: So New York is very different to Johannesburg. Spent a

1187
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 8: couple of years there, but most of my time traveling,

1188
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 8: so there was a very different world. But I think

1189
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 8: it spoke to the South African advertising industry of that time,

1190
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 8: because you know that they wanted me to run tbw

1191
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 8: A globally was a huge on a very different world

1192
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 8: in terms of scale, But funnily enough, the basics stay

1193
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 8: the same. You know, how do you come up with

1194
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 8: an original idea? How do you make it relevant? How

1195
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 8: do you make it unexpectedly relevant? Because if it's just relevant,

1196
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 8: it's probably boring. If it's just unexpected, it might be meaningless.

1197
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 8: So the basic tenets of marketing and advertising really stay

1198
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 8: the same whether you're in Hong Kong, New York, you know, Milan,

1199
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 8: same story.

1200
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 2: Really, the fact that we're such a diverse society does

1201
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 2: that help in a way for someone who's going, you know,

1202
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 2: going to basically have to work for a global audience, as.

1203
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 8: You were hugely South Africans Tuesday travel very well because

1204
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 8: we don't wear our nationality on our sleeves, so we

1205
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 8: don't appear as we're French or English or American, and

1206
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 8: we get on with everyone. We work hard, and we

1207
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 8: have this innate ability, which sounds strange from a country

1208
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 8: that birth departate. We have this innate ability to work

1209
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 8: well with people without sort of you know, sticking the

1210
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 8: chest out and beating up and saying you know you will,

1211
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 8: you will. We seem to integrate well. And that was

1212
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 8: the best training I could possibly have ever had.

1213
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 2: You spoke about ideas. Is there a way that you

1214
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 2: come up with an idea? I mean, I don't know

1215
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 2: if you have a very if you have a waterproof

1216
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 2: notepad in your shower or something. But is there a

1217
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 2: process you follow, particularly when you were putting in all

1218
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 2: of those hours of perspiration you know before a free pitch.

1219
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 2: Is there a process to your idea?

1220
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 8: Less a process, But there are certain things that make

1221
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 8: an idea jump or or not. I'm not a big

1222
01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 8: one on fear. You know, fear is good for a

1223
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 8: day headline because you have to meet it. But and

1224
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 8: again around the world, get a diverse group of people together,

1225
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 8: think openly, honestly about it. Don't be intimidated by the problem,

1226
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 8: and please leave your ego at the door so that

1227
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 8: everyone we're all equal before the idea and often the

1228
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 8: junior in the room, or god forbid, even the client

1229
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 8: comes up with an idea. So the ability to be

1230
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,479
Speaker 8: open and sometimes let the idea breathe a bit, because

1231
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 8: it can start with signing a bit silly, but if

1232
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 8: it's a truly original idea, you won't have a reference point.

1233
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 8: So most clients, most agencies get into the habit of

1234
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 8: just making kind of incremental changes. The really great ones

1235
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 8: come up with something really original, higher risk, but potentially

1236
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 8: much higher reward.

1237
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 2: On that point, the Nando's are to advertising, and you

1238
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 2: you were a big part in starting that and the

1239
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 2: way that Nando's gets people talking even now, I mean

1240
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 2: they've done some ads. I remember during the Zooming era

1241
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 2: they had. I think it was only on YouTube. I

1242
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 2: don't think I saw it on TV, but it was.

1243
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 2: It was police officers getting ready for a cavalcade of

1244
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 2: some leaders vehicles to come through an intersection. I mean,

1245
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 2: it was obvious what they were saying, but it was

1246
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:28,959
Speaker 2: kind of I remember watching it, going, oh, but everybody

1247
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 2: I knew had seen it, you know, And yet it wasn't,

1248
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 2: as far as I know, on TV. Why does no

1249
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:39,679
Speaker 2: one else do that? Because obviously the word of mouth

1250
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 2: getting people talking, it's free. It transmits itself. In an

1251
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 2: era of WhatsApp groups, I'm sure that's even more the case,

1252
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 2: and yet no one else seems to take the same approach.

1253
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, there are many, many reasons for that. So we

1254
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 8: worked with Nando's for I think about the first ten

1255
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 8: years of their existence. We started when there were three

1256
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 8: stores and now I'm happy to say I'm still very

1257
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 8: good friends with them, and we to pijabber a lot globally.

1258
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 8: But we went to them with the simple premise, you're tiny,

1259
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 8: you're being massively outspent. Your chicken is hot, spicy. How

1260
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 8: about your marketing and your advertising matches that? And we

1261
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 8: called it the first irreverent brand in South Africa. Now,

1262
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,679
Speaker 8: when you're very small, you almost have nothing to lose.

1263
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 8: And what was wonderful with that story was it worked immediately,

1264
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:38,680
Speaker 8: so there wasn't a case of us just being controversial

1265
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 8: for controversial. It played into sales. So of course more

1266
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 8: leads to more, but it's a difficult to sell to

1267
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 8: a client who's more conservatively minded because there's a higher risk.

1268
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 8: The great thing with Manners, because it started out like that,

1269
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 8: it starts giving it a lot of you know, it's

1270
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 8: on a long leash, so maybe you we I mean,

1271
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 8: probably our most controversial one was we walked a lady

1272
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 8: who had a you know, she was blind. She had

1273
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 8: a guide dog, and the dog walked her into the

1274
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 8: pole so that he can eat the Nando's she just bought.

1275
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 8: I mean, that was incredibly controversial and that I mean

1276
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 8: we thought it was funny. You know, I'm not sure

1277
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 8: today if that would be seen as hilarious or not.

1278
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 8: But it worked at worked at work. But there's pushback. Oh,

1279
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 8: it's just Nando's, is probably you know, we got away

1280
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 8: with a lot of stuff because we were that's just Nando's.

1281
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 8: So more courage hyper risk strategy. Most clients take the

1282
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 8: step not easy, but the more incremental route.

1283
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 2: I presume you don't have to name examples if you

1284
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:55,639
Speaker 2: don't want to, but there might be an advertial too

1285
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 2: that you maybe regretful, didn't land as you would like.

1286
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I imagine pretty early on your radar for

1287
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 2: what won't work got pretty good pretty quickly.

1288
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:09,759
Speaker 8: It's got I think. So having said that, far from perfect,

1289
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 8: we had a couple of clangers, and you know, that's

1290
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 8: how you learn. You think you're very smart when things

1291
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 8: go your way, but you the true learning is when

1292
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 8: you really cock up, and we certainly had our fair

1293
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:30,640
Speaker 8: share of those. So certainly we never sat with some

1294
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 8: kind of crystal ball that pulls us what to do

1295
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 8: every time. Because we took higher risks, we probably had

1296
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 8: a relatively higher proportion of failures. But that was our

1297
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 8: DNA and it kind of gives you a lot of

1298
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 8: adrenaline and sleepless nights.

1299
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 2: John Hunton is our shape Shift tonight on The Money Show.

1300
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 2: He's the co founder of Huntlascarus and at tbw A.

1301
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 2: He's retiring. We have a few more minutes with them

1302
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 2: in take minutes to eight.

1303
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,760
Speaker 9: The Money Show Stevel Crotes is brought to you by

1304
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:09,799
Speaker 9: abscess cib Discover the latest twinds shaping digital assets across Africa.

1305
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 9: Download the ABSTH Africa Digital Assets Insights twenty twenty five.

1306
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 2: The Money Show shape Shift is six minutes to eight.

1307
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:22,040
Speaker 2: John hunt is our extra special shape Shift tonight, the

1308
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 2: co founder of Huntless, Scars and TVWA. John, I do

1309
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 2: want to talk a little bit about how advertising is changing.

1310
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 2: You talked about how it's fracturing. So in the eighties

1311
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 2: and nineties you were already print, radio and television, so

1312
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:38,799
Speaker 2: much of it is online now. The way people spend

1313
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 2: money on advertising has changed dramatically. Does that mean the

1314
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 2: advertising we see now is just not as good? Have

1315
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 2: we gone and this will be slightly unfair, but have

1316
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 2: we gone from a sort of big budget, thirty seconds

1317
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 2: television commercial to a really irritating pop up on Money's website?

1318
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 8: To a certain degree, yes, have to be on a

1319
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 8: there there's almost just a noise level where you're in

1320
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 8: the presence of messages. I'm not sure always if they

1321
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 8: particularly cleverly constructed, but that is the nature of the

1322
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 8: world today. And while you keep scrolling, they're going to keep,

1323
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 8: you know, making sure that there's another and another and another.

1324
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 8: The problem is your bandwidth is now so full that

1325
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 8: to get through is not such an easy task, and

1326
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 8: we all battle with that in terms of how do

1327
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:38,320
Speaker 8: we get to the how do you make it stick?

1328
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 8: You certainly can get it everywhere, particularly if you have

1329
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:44,719
Speaker 8: a decent budget, but how do you get it to stick?

1330
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 8: How do you make it meaningful? How do you have

1331
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 8: it locked in someone's memory and how do they then

1332
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 8: actually act on that message? It's tough.

1333
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 2: Well, how are the best people doing it? I mean,

1334
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 2: do you have to still build it around a big

1335
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 2: campaign in sort of formal media and sort of translate that.

1336
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:05,880
Speaker 2: Can you actually run a big campaign like that on

1337
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,600
Speaker 2: social media? I remember an energy drink that did that

1338
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 2: very successfully.

1339
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:12,640
Speaker 8: Yeah. Oh, there are many many ways of doing it.

1340
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:18,679
Speaker 8: There's no one format anymore. And you know, the digital

1341
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 8: world or it's so all encompassing now it almost changes,

1342
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 8: you know, about a half hour. So you can probably

1343
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 8: the brands that stand for something and they have a

1344
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 8: kind of ballast so that you believe in the fundamentals

1345
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 8: of the brand, and then it scatters across all different

1346
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 8: parts of the world. Digitally, probably have a better chance.

1347
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 8: But as I say that, there'll be someone somewhere who

1348
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,479
Speaker 8: will just come up with a super clever idea to

1349
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 8: a very specific market with the right influencer with the

1350
01:14:56,320 --> 01:15:00,560
Speaker 8: new brand, and it takes fire again. So that's our problem.

1351
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:03,879
Speaker 8: There's not a vacuum pact one size fits all anymore.

1352
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 2: John. Normally in these interviews I ask someone what they

1353
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 2: do for fun, and particularly what they read. But you

1354
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:13,799
Speaker 2: don't just read. You write as well, novels and plays.

1355
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:15,760
Speaker 2: Is that something that still interests you? I mean you're

1356
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 2: obviously very good at it.

1357
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 8: Sure, that's the advertising keeps you solvent And then all

1358
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 8: the other stuff keeps you sane. So I'm busy on

1359
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 8: another book now, and in my next life, we've started

1360
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:37,960
Speaker 8: a little publishing house. So my love for writing and

1361
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 8: reading is really what stays me. It's my go to

1362
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 8: my happy place. So I've never ever stopped writing, and

1363
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,120
Speaker 8: hopefully in the near future something will pop out.

1364
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 2: I mean, is there something something particular about writing that

1365
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 2: you enjoy, a sort of interior life issue or something.

1366
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:03,000
Speaker 8: I think it's my kind of meditation. I can get

1367
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:06,640
Speaker 8: quite grumpy about it because it's not always the easiest

1368
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:10,920
Speaker 8: thing and it's solitary, but I find it therapeutic. So

1369
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 8: as weird as it sounds, while all these other things

1370
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 8: are going on, if I can have two three hours

1371
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 8: at the table and just writing, I feel much better

1372
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:23,640
Speaker 8: by the end of that process. And I've been like

1373
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,720
Speaker 8: that all my life. So some people play golf, some

1374
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,799
Speaker 8: people go for runs. I sit down with this stupid

1375
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 8: pen in my hand and scribble on a piece of paper.

1376
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:34,320
Speaker 2: You'll miss the advertising, though, won't you.

1377
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 8: Yes. I mean, it's been such a wonderful, wonderful sort

1378
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 8: of rollercoaster ride, and I've met so many wonderful people

1379
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:50,719
Speaker 8: and travel the world and it's been terrific, but I'm

1380
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 8: also very happy now to stay on as chairman. But

1381
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 8: I'm not very happy to go to John two point

1382
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:03,480
Speaker 8: zero or maybe I don't know, ready for the next challenge.

1383
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 2: John has been wonderful talking to you. Enjoy a very

1384
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 2: well earned retirement and thank you so much. John Hunt

1385
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:12,600
Speaker 2: is the co founder of Huntless, SCARUS and TBWA.

1386
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 9: The Money Show Stevel Crotes is brought to you by

1387
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 9: absas cib Discover the latest trends shaping digital assets across Africa.

1388
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:26,719
Speaker 9: Download the ABSTH Africa Digital Assets Insights twenty twenty five.

1389
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 2: Well in the US, a mixed picture waiting, of course,

1390
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 2: the interest rate decision that Dal Jones up point three

1391
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 2: to seven, the Nastick down point two eight, the S

1392
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:38,360
Speaker 2: and P five hundred up point zero five. What is

1393
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 2: going to happen later tonight, Jerome Powell in a couple

1394
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,640
Speaker 2: of hours will let us know. We'll have full analysis

1395
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 2: on that and more tomorrow. The Money Show back tomorrow.

1396
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 2: Good evening, It's eight