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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk at all. The Money Show with Stephen Curtis

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Speaker 2: is brought to you by Absent Corporate and Investment Banking,

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Speaker 2: proud sponsors of GTR Africa twenty twenty six enabling trade

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Speaker 2: flows for Growth ABSODS, a registered FSP. Good evening, Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the program. I'm Stephen Curtis. Ten minutes after six

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Speaker 2: Again oil just I suppose the right word is scrambling

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Speaker 2: markets interesting to see, not for the first time, but

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Speaker 2: certainly I think a more sustained increase in the prices

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Speaker 2: of shares like Cecil and Tungala, And I think the realization.

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Speaker 2: I think two things are happening, connected to each other.

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Speaker 2: The one is the sense that actually, this is not

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Speaker 2: going to end soon. The new Supreme Leader in Iran

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Speaker 2: saying today that they'll keep the straight up whom was closed.

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Speaker 2: That's the first thing. And the second, I think is

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Speaker 2: also how difficult it's going to be. Let me overuse

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Speaker 2: the word to unscramble the mess, simply because even if

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Speaker 2: things stop tomorrow, even if the conflicts stop tomorrow, and

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Speaker 2: I'm afraid to say, I don't think that'll happen. What

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Speaker 2: it does mean the ships are in the wrong place,

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Speaker 2: pumps oil oil, pumps of stop pumping, all of that

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Speaker 2: sort of thing, and that really is the problem. So

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a little while, I'm afraid interesting

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Speaker 2: to see some strong results out despite all of that.

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Speaker 2: And obviously for periods before this, some Chabalala record a

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Speaker 2: standard bank, really a record year for them, record earnings.

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Speaker 2: They're able to increase new customers by three percent when

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Speaker 2: you consider they have twenty million, that's quite astonishing. Really,

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Speaker 2: we'll talk about oil. We'll speak to some Tabalala in

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Speaker 2: a moment Sanisha Pakaasami is the chief economists that Momentum Investments,

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Speaker 2: will get her view on what's going to happen in

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Speaker 2: the Middle East, what's happening with oil prices and the

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Speaker 2: impact on that. Some of them reporting today a bit

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Speaker 2: of a strange sort of thing happening with their headline earnings.

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Speaker 2: But we'll get their chie We'll ask their chief financial officer,

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Speaker 2: Abigail mccorba, to just explain that I did get really

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Speaker 2: strong figures in new business, which I think should a

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Speaker 2: lay concerns. And then one of the big stories of

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Speaker 2: the day in a way is around retirement. Andrew Woodburne

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Speaker 2: will talk to you about that. But here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: Sabania Stillwater said they're actually going to scrap their retirement

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Speaker 2: age for non executive directors. And what that means is,

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Speaker 2: if you're a non execut director, they'll have an annual assessment.

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Speaker 2: I have a couple of thoughts about this. The first is,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't like to be the person who has to

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Speaker 2: go to the chair of the board and say, I'm sorry, sir,

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Speaker 2: you're sixty six or ma'am, but you failed your annual assessment.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to be that person. I imagine now

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Speaker 2: they'll outsource that. The other thing, though, and I must

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Speaker 2: just say this, is that if you stay on too long,

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Speaker 2: you stop young talent. You frustrate young talent, you frustrate

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Speaker 2: people you know like me. If you leave too early,

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Speaker 2: well you lose the wisdom of you know someone like me.

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Speaker 2: So let me ask you a question. Do you think

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Speaker 2: that we should scrap retire at ages and do you

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Speaker 2: think older people should be allowed to stay on for

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Speaker 2: longer or do you think no, they've had their turn.

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Speaker 2: We must actually let younger people in. And then if

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Speaker 2: I may on seven two seven oh two one seven

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Speaker 2: o two, And if you like, when you give me

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Speaker 2: your view, you may just want to give me a

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Speaker 2: hint of how old you are, because that might well

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Speaker 2: be the main factor. I think I know one or

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Speaker 2: two young people will be like, no, retire, make at sixty.

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Speaker 2: And I know one or two older people who'll say no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: no no. I have all of this wisdom to give.

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Speaker 2: Interested in your view? Please oh seven two seven two

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Speaker 2: one seven fourteen after six The.

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Speaker 1: Bloody Show with Stephen krudis live on ninety two point

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Speaker 1: seven and one o six FM, streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 1: Media Plus NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: Standard Bank rarely reporting record earnings today their corporate and

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Speaker 2: investment banking unit their insurance and asset management unit, helping

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Speaker 2: it to lift earnings by eleven percent for the year

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Speaker 2: to the end of December, headline earnings up by seven percent.

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Speaker 2: That excludes their earnings from Liberty. Some Tabalada is the

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Speaker 2: group CEO at Standard Banks. Some good evening, Good to

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Speaker 2: talk to you again, and thanks for your time. I mean, really,

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Speaker 2: I suppose record briefing by some record breaking in terms

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Speaker 2: of some metrics you are able to increase your customers

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Speaker 2: by three percent. I realize you have a lot of momentum,

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Speaker 2: but you're clearly taking measures to keep that momentum going.

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Speaker 3: Mister Photos always lovely to chat to you, and yes, indeed,

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Speaker 3: Standard Bank is just continuing to do the basics, focusing

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Speaker 3: on client experience, making our clients happy so that they

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Speaker 3: hold more products with us, they use more of our cards,

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Speaker 3: they make more payments with us, they borrow more from us,

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Speaker 3: they buy more insurance from us, and so forth. So

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Speaker 3: it's both increasing the customer numbers as well as increasing

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Speaker 3: their the happiness with which our customers are willing to

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Speaker 3: use our products, and that is simply what we've been

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Speaker 3: doing day.

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Speaker 2: In, day out. So I mean, I understand that, but

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Speaker 2: your personal and private banking unit, they increased earnings only

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Speaker 2: by by three percent. Was that a little disappointing on

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Speaker 2: our high interest rates I imagine were affected, it would have.

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Speaker 3: Been significantly higher. The South African number is around ten percent.

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Speaker 3: The down draft was as a consequence of challenges we

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Speaker 3: had in a couple of African countries, in particular Botswana,

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Speaker 3: But for those countries that number would have been much

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Speaker 3: much better. The second one, of course, was they suffered

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Speaker 3: what is called the endowment effect in off four operations,

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Speaker 3: in other words, declining interest rate squeezing against savings and capital,

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Speaker 3: where that the pricing of those deposits does not change

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Speaker 3: all in all, however, that business is going gangbusters, Stephen

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Speaker 3: is doing really well.

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Speaker 2: And your business and commercial banking units. I mean the

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Speaker 2: figure I saw was it was down by four percent?

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Speaker 2: Is are you a little worried about that?

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Speaker 3: Yet not at all same story declining interest rates. That

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Speaker 3: business is very much a deposit taking business, much less

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Speaker 3: a lending business. That's the first thing. Secondly, it's got

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Speaker 3: a higher cost income ratios or consequence of investments we've

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Speaker 3: been making, some of which we've spoken about publicly, and

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Speaker 3: most importantly as given that business generator turner equity of

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Speaker 3: thirty eight percent, it's a fantastic business.

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Speaker 2: Sure, you talk about the opportunities across Africa, they're still significant.

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Speaker 2: You could probably even go further and say very significant.

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Speaker 2: You also say you recognize the challenges your face from

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Speaker 2: increased competition and from fintech firms in particular. So a

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Speaker 2: bank is big as yours, what's a twenty million customers?

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Speaker 2: How do you make sure it's still agile enough to

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Speaker 2: take on what I think are going to be a

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Speaker 2: lot more small, newer, quite nimble players in the fintech space.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, we have lost some trouble and that was

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Speaker 2: on a landline. I'm not entirely sure how that happened,

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Speaker 2: but I think we'll call him back so we can

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Speaker 2: complete the interview. But that certainly was unexpected, and we

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Speaker 2: can't even blame a cell phone network this time. But that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was quite strange. Let's see if we're able to

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Speaker 2: just get him back to complete that interview. As I say, unexpected,

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Speaker 2: also questions to come around sort of the situation in

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Speaker 2: the Middle East. We'll try and get him back as well,

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Speaker 2: but I think we might actually be battling a little

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Speaker 2: bit with that, I'm afraid to say, because there are

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Speaker 2: some interesting conversations to have around all of this. We'll

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Speaker 2: be talking about oil in just a moment, too, because

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Speaker 2: there are various things to talk about there. That's a

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Speaker 2: story that I suspect is going to be developing for

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Speaker 2: quite some time, and I imagine you'll hear people talk

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Speaker 2: about it for a while almost no matter what happens.

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Speaker 2: I'm afraid in the conflict with you run a lot

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Speaker 2: it back with us. So I'm sorry about that. Really

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Speaker 2: don't know what happened there.

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Speaker 3: The question I was asked the wonders of modern technology.

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Speaker 2: Things get better as we get older. I was asking

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Speaker 2: how you make sure that a bank as big as

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Speaker 2: yours twenty million customers, is agile enough to take on smaller,

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Speaker 2: newer players that will be fairly nimble.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was saying to Stephen that we recognize that

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Speaker 3: the African continent is blessed with all these new entrants

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Speaker 3: that are being really wonderful things for clients. It's increasing

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Speaker 3: competition and forcing the banks to respond. Fortunately, at Standard Bank,

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Speaker 3: as you know, we've spent billions over twenty five billion

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Speaker 3: rand in investing in our core banking system, and then

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Speaker 3: over time we've increasingly focused on the front end. That's

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Speaker 3: allowed us, for example, to get a large proportion of

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Speaker 3: our servers onto the cloud. It's putting us in a

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Speaker 3: position to roll out artificial intelligence, including urgentic artificial intelligence.

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Speaker 3: It's getting us into a position where we can move

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Speaker 3: faster on providing new payment rails, tokenized as sets and

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Speaker 3: so forth. All of these are modernizing the bank in

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Speaker 3: response to these new entrants, whether they be payments for

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Speaker 3: retail customers or payments and lending products for business customers.

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Speaker 3: So the summary is, it's great, it's great competition, and

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Speaker 3: we are ready to respond. And I do know that

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Speaker 3: other larger competitors are the same. We are racing to compete.

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Speaker 2: Used did expect your banking revenue growth to be in

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Speaker 2: the high single digits in this period? How worried are

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Speaker 2: you about the conflict involving the US Iran Israel. Iran's

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Speaker 2: response could actually disrupt that.

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Speaker 3: We're incredibly worried about it. And as we've always said,

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Speaker 3: we we do scenario planning. We look at what the

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Speaker 3: worst case scenario could be, we look at what the

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Speaker 3: base case could be, and we watch the environment. We

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Speaker 3: constantly analyze it. Our risk committee and our risk teams

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Speaker 3: are meeting every day to stay close to what's happening

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Speaker 3: with the oil price. And you know, there's a scenario

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Speaker 3: where the world price, you know, averages eighty dollars per

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Speaker 3: barrel and the conflict is short. That does not shave

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Speaker 3: much off GDP growth. You can think of a scenario

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Speaker 3: where it's above one hundred dollars, it's above hundred dollars

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Speaker 3: today and that goes on for a year, a massive

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Speaker 3: and significant diminution of global GDP as a consequence of that.

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Speaker 3: We've already seen the impact. For example, interest rates are

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Speaker 3: likely to be cut only twice this year, whereas we

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Speaker 3: thought in South Africa they'd be cut three times twenty

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Speaker 3: five basis points each. We think now it will be

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Speaker 3: twice in May and then in September, and then again

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Speaker 3: early next year. Clearly that is because you know, a

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Speaker 3: higher oil price feeds into high inflation and therefore slows

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Speaker 3: down GDP growth. So the summary is we are deeply concerned,

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Speaker 3: but we have planned for the worst and hope for

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Speaker 3: the best, and keep changing our plans as we.

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Speaker 2: Get more facts. Not much else anyone can do. I

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Speaker 2: suppose some of you did at Standard Bank recently change

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Speaker 2: the retirement policy. There was one or two slight unfortunate events.

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Speaker 2: You moved it from sixty to sixty three. Do you

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Speaker 2: think that goes far enough? And I asked, because Savania

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Speaker 2: announced today they were scrapping their retirement age for non

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Speaker 2: executive directors completely. And some I know plenty of people

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Speaker 2: who are you know, sixty three thereabouts. So we'll have

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Speaker 2: plenty to.

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Speaker 3: Give, you know, Stephen, want has to approach this better

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Speaker 3: with a big dose of humility. We don't really know

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Speaker 3: and the issue is complicated, and I did hear your

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Speaker 3: debate a little bit earlier. You need to create space

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Speaker 3: for younger people coming through on the one hand, but

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Speaker 3: you've also got to continue to have access to the knowledge, skill,

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Speaker 3: talent and wisdom of older people who are working for

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Speaker 3: much longer. Most people can work growt up to the

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Speaker 3: you know, mid to late seven. They've got the energy,

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Speaker 3: the brains, the know how and you ought to.

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Speaker 2: Have access to it.

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Speaker 3: And so we need to just keep looking at what

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Speaker 3: happens globally, keep understanding what the dynamics are in South Africa,

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Speaker 3: and to keep working on the policies. The current policy

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Speaker 3: at Standard Bank is that it is sixty three and

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Speaker 3: as the board thinks about these things, it may or

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Speaker 3: may not change that in the medium to long term,

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Speaker 3: but for now it is sixty three.

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Speaker 2: Some Tchavalada really enjoyed the chat. Thanks so much, the

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Speaker 2: group CEO at Standard Bank. Twenty three minutes after six.

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Speaker 1: The Money Show with Stephen on seven O two seven O.

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Speaker 2: Two oil prices driving markets again today obviously after the

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Speaker 2: new Supreme Leader of Iran, Mohabahamanei said they would ensure

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Speaker 2: the Straits of Humus would remain closed. They've been attacked

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Speaker 2: on several tankers in that area. No one's able to

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Speaker 2: sail through. Millions of barrels of oil pretty much bottled

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Speaker 2: up in that area. Nisha Pakarasami is the chief economist

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Speaker 2: a Momentum Investments nishe Good evening. I suppose for the market,

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Speaker 2: Hamone's comments might carry more weight than what the International

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Speaker 2: Energy Agency said. I suppose to put it bluntly, the

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Speaker 2: West just doesn't have enough oil and reserve to make

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Speaker 2: up for what's trapped in the Gulf.

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Speaker 4: Good evening, Stephen, and hello to all of your listeners.

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Speaker 4: You know, indeed, I think we are at a quite

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Speaker 4: a pivotal junction now. It's quite difficult to see who's

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Speaker 4: actually calling the shots. And you know, if the United

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Speaker 4: States is an example, de clears an end to the war,

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Speaker 4: if they define some kind of military endgame, it's not

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Speaker 4: there certainty that Iran would pull back, given that there

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Speaker 4: is a very high level of mistrust. Given the incursion,

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Speaker 4: the twelve Days strike that occurred in June last year

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Speaker 4: with Israel and what has happened this time around with

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Speaker 4: both Israel and the United States. So I think that

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Speaker 4: you know, a massive trust deficit between the two doesn't

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Speaker 4: really give Iran any guarantee that no one will attack

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Speaker 4: them again. And so we also know that with the

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Speaker 4: US administration, they're not really willing to be very flexible

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Speaker 4: at this stage, and so it's very difficult to actually

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Speaker 4: tell who holds all the cards.

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Speaker 2: I suppose. The other thing is that even if I mean,

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Speaker 2: it would probably require a dose of magic, some kind

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Speaker 2: of ceasefire, the picture now is so messy and complicated.

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Speaker 2: Oil pumps have stopped producing, tankers are in the wrong place.

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Speaker 2: I mean, oil prices wouldn't just go down.

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Speaker 4: I think, you know, there are also others spillovers. As

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Speaker 4: you mentioned, it's oil prices, but you know, fertilizer prices

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Speaker 4: were also affected. We've seen that seventy percent of the

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Speaker 4: Gulf regions are actually dependent on food imports from the

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Speaker 4: Strait of Rooms as well. You know what can happen

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Speaker 4: from here to see things settling down, I think we

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Speaker 4: do need to see a bit of flexibility from the

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Speaker 4: United States. You know, the one thing that they could

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Speaker 4: potentially do is lift sanctions, something that's likely at this stage,

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Speaker 4: but that is something that could show Iran that they

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Speaker 4: are trying to meet them halfway and maybe to establish

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Speaker 4: a very firm, concrete guarantee from a third party that

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Speaker 4: no one will attack him again. And I think with

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Speaker 4: asked that Iran doesn't have that certainty. And this is

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Speaker 4: what makes the you know, the question around the duration

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Speaker 4: of this war very tricky to call.

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Speaker 2: Anyone considering buying a new car or upgrading right now

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Speaker 2: is probably going to spend their weekend looking at electric

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Speaker 2: or hybrid cars. And my point of this is that

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Speaker 2: could this shock, no matter when or how it ends,

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Speaker 2: have quite long term consequences. I mean, Trump is an

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Speaker 2: oil guy, drill baby, drill. I can't help but wonder

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Speaker 2: if maybe he's going to push many people further away

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Speaker 2: from oil over the longer term as a result of

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Speaker 2: this look.

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Speaker 4: I think, broadly speaking, there are probably three kinds of

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Speaker 4: scenarios that could play out. You know, not too long ago,

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Speaker 4: there was a force which was for potential regime shift,

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Speaker 4: but we've seen that the sun of the now deceased

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Speaker 4: Supreme Leader. You know, it's also likely to take a

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Speaker 4: pretty hard line stance, given that many of these family

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Speaker 4: members were killed in this war. If we look at

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Speaker 4: the remaining scenarios, there's a potential for severe but you know,

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Speaker 4: more of a short lived conflict, and the nature of

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Speaker 4: that scenario would include something like a capitulation to Israel

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Speaker 4: and the United States, so some kind of very quick

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Speaker 4: military defeat. And in that kind of scenario, you could

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Speaker 4: potentially get oil prices that react on a higher level

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Speaker 4: for a couple of weeks, but by the end of

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Speaker 4: the year settle somewhere around sixty five dollars per barrel.

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Speaker 4: We could potentially get a longer term conflict, and that

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Speaker 4: in itself could be one of two scenarios, one in

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Speaker 4: which there's more limited damage to the goals energy infrastructure,

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Speaker 4: so nothing that's you know, really permanent damage that can

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Speaker 4: potentially be repaired reasonably quickly. And so you could see

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Speaker 4: you know, oil price jumping to around that one hundred

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Speaker 4: and twenty two hundred and fifty dollars per barrel level,

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Speaker 4: which is you know, not totally unforeseen, given that we've

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Speaker 4: had the oil price in intradrate trading earlier on this

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Speaker 4: week touching one twenty to the dollar. And then settling

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Speaker 4: around let's say ninety dollars per barrel eighty to ninety

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Speaker 4: by the end of the year. And I think in

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Speaker 4: the most severe kind of scenarios, you have a longer

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Speaker 4: term conflict, so rather than a number of weeks, it

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Speaker 4: becomes a number of months. But you have far more

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Speaker 4: longer term damage to the production capacity, so lasting damage

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Speaker 4: to the Gulf energy infrastructure. And in that kind of world,

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Speaker 4: we could potentially see, you know, the nominal price of

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Speaker 4: oil getting to one hundred and fifty dollars per barrel,

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Speaker 4: and it could stay there for a number of months.

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Speaker 4: And I think in that kind of scenario, you know,

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Speaker 4: you'd start to see some kind of substitution efects taking place.

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Speaker 2: Sure, thank you very much. Indeed, Senisa Pakarrossami, chief economist

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Speaker 2: at Momentum Investments, doesn't they thinking about does.

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Speaker 1: It no money show the market?

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Speaker 2: The governor is portfolio manager at RAND so good evening

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Speaker 2: Standard Bank. I mean, lots of momentum. That still they

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Speaker 2: seem to be doing quite.

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Speaker 5: A lot, right, Oh yes, look at talking about you know,

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Speaker 5: looking up that digital you know, customer base. Today they

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Speaker 5: were basically fat for the day. But considering the fact

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Speaker 5: that you saw. You know, if you love to look

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Speaker 5: at the competitors like Winston's, you know, ned Bank down

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Speaker 5: three percent, you know, First Round down two and a half,

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Speaker 5: Upside down two point seven, et cetera. The market looked

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Speaker 5: at this reasonably positively. I do think with regards to

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Speaker 5: the banking sector. Ever, the shifter was digital. Though it

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Speaker 5: might be positive in the short term, in the longer time,

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Speaker 5: it does really eat into the established banks, you know

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Speaker 5: Mote with their established a branches, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Sam, I mean, the market didn't like the result. The

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Speaker 2: headline earnings were down, the company itself saying that that

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Speaker 2: was because of a technical issue. I mean they knew

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Speaker 2: business revenues were very strong.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Look, I mean when you are in the it called

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Speaker 5: party that ass management business, and you had kind of

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Speaker 5: years so that Africa had last year. With regards to

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Speaker 5: you know, it's called a performance. It does our market,

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Speaker 5: you would expect, you know, some reasonably good results. That

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Speaker 5: being said, like you mentioned, there was you know, some

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Speaker 5: issues here that the market was not positive about it.

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Speaker 5: And look, we were expecting some positive results to come

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Speaker 5: out here. It's not exactly you know, difficult to figure

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Speaker 5: out that if you are doing as management and your

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Speaker 5: market to prey market is of party plus percent for

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Speaker 5: the year, you would be looking at, you know, reasonably

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Speaker 5: good results coming through and with.

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Speaker 2: Means very quickly oil prices. You would have heard the

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Speaker 2: conversation with Nisha Pakarassami a moment ago. Where's your stance

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Speaker 2: on it at the moment?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, I think we need to consider what happens

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Speaker 5: if it does go beyond you know, the next month

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Speaker 5: or so. At that point in time, we would have

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Speaker 5: all prices well above one hundred. I mean they already

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Speaker 5: had one hundred of the moment. The impact on global

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Speaker 5: economic growth is going to be quite devastating and it

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Speaker 5: could easy push a contract to Africa into a recession.

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Speaker 5: Consider the fact that we barely do one plus percent

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Speaker 5: growth rate and if you look at the opera is

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Speaker 5: it's probably decreasing growths bying excess. On one button for you,

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Speaker 5: given stays with.

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Speaker 2: It is both governor thank you portfolio manager at rand Swiss.

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Speaker 2: What's up? Stephen on seven two seven oh two one

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Speaker 2: seven twenty three minutes towards seven o'clock. Now, I've been

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Speaker 2: described as many things, but shy and retiring is not

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Speaker 2: among them, which may explain my views on retirement, but

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Speaker 2: I'm much more interested in yours. Seven to two, seven

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Speaker 2: oh two one, seven o two. You heard the issue

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Speaker 2: of the retirement age, Sabanya scrapping their retirement age for

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Speaker 2: non executive directors. You heard some chabalala on the subject.

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Speaker 2: Your thoughts tonight, Ty Steven, are you to show up

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Speaker 2: with this one.

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Speaker 7: By the time left the Motendust, he was at one

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Speaker 7: and just after his retirement age, he was a sales

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Speaker 7: person and he did not want to become a manager.

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Speaker 7: He made a lot of minds self person, you know,

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Speaker 7: successful so as we believe in, and modern manager. So

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Speaker 7: he never wanted to become a self pion. So at

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Speaker 7: the age of eighty one, from the retirement the age,

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Speaker 7: they started giving him a one year one year of

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Speaker 7: contracts renewing every month's life. Was like an independent contractor

391
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Speaker 7: there to settle cass because he just according to him,

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Speaker 7: he said he didn't want to go home because if

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Speaker 7: it goes home stays at home, then it's gonna die.

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Speaker 7: So he continued on waking.

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Speaker 8: Today.

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Speaker 9: I think he's.

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Speaker 10: Around eighty three.

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Speaker 7: I wonder how he's almost check up on him.

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Speaker 2: So interesting, I know plenty of people who say that

400
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Speaker 2: if I stopped working out there, I do understand that.

401
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 2: Other voice notes, oh no, not just yet. So yeah,

402
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Speaker 2: I mean look, I mean I do get that, and

403
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Speaker 2: I know that people will often say the later you retire,

404
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Speaker 2: the longer you will live. The trick, of course, is

405
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Speaker 2: you've got to enjoy what you do. And I do

406
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Speaker 2: remember something sit with me actually a little bit. Warren

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Speaker 2: Ingram said to us once. If you're like sixty and

408
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Speaker 2: you're in a position where you just haven't saved enough

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Speaker 2: to retire, you need to start looking for what you

410
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Speaker 2: can do as you get older. Whatever it is, some

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Speaker 2: skill you can develop, or something so that you can

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Speaker 2: keep working into your seventies. And I thought that was

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Speaker 2: very interesting advice. Twenty one minutes to seven, Stephen is

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Speaker 2: one x at at Stephen, sixteen minutes now to seven

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Speaker 2: the time, Good to year from you tonight. Well, I

416
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Speaker 2: suppose an intriguing market reaction to some numbs results today.

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Speaker 2: It's headline earnings were down eighteen percent, but if you

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Speaker 2: look through the numbers, I mean, new business revenues up

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Speaker 2: very strongly, like for like earnings up by around twenty percent.

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Speaker 2: Abigail Mukuba is the group chief financial officer at Sunderon Abigail.

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Speaker 2: Good evening, Thanks for the time. I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: It seemed to me that what happened was one of

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Speaker 2: those technical measures you had to deal with capy Tech.

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Speaker 2: It ended in twenty twenty four. You got a big

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Speaker 2: capital paout then that made this year's headline earnings look

426
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Speaker 2: lower for you. Is that the right way to understand

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Speaker 2: what happened.

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Speaker 11: Good evening, Stephen. It's exactly that we had a very

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Speaker 11: high base in twenty twenty four, and that high base

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Speaker 11: was driven by you're saying the payout that we got

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Speaker 11: at the end of the JV with Capitec. We had

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Speaker 11: a seven year JV and part of that settlement at

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Speaker 11: the end of the seven year we got about one

434
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 11: point four billion in recapture fee that we consider to

435
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 11: be one of that was last year. We also had

436
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 11: other one off in as far as some of the

437
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 11: restructuring of our portfolio that we did, particularly the assets

438
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 11: that we sold into our JZ with Alians. I think

439
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 11: also the one thing to flag is that we also

440
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 11: had in twenty twenty five the rent strengthening significantly, particularly

441
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 11: in the last quarter, and that also impacted our the

442
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 11: comparability of our results. So I would to your point,

443
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 11: it's corprotectivity. It's one of items as well as the

444
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 11: impact of for an exchange.

445
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 2: The issue of foreign exchange. I mean, obviously in your

446
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 2: business a large portion of your funds are held off. Sure,

447
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 2: that's kind of how it works. So I mean, suddenly

448
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 2: exchange rates because of what happened to the round last year,

449
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: although that's all been reversed, but hopefully only just for

450
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 2: the moment, But suddenly managing exchange rates might be a

451
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 2: little bit more complicated. We'll become used to kind of

452
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 2: one scenario.

453
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 11: So we we're lucky enough that in our world we

454
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 11: look at the very, very long term. Generally, we keep customers'

455
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 11: assets for purposes of You start working at twenty one

456
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,479
Speaker 11: or twenty five, and you're going to retire at sixty

457
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 11: sixty five years old, so we look through the cycle.

458
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 11: We don't look at the annual wel activity and the

459
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 11: way we manage our.

460
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 2: Wow, second time we've lost an interview. I suspect that

461
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: this may not be on the side of our guests. Sorry,

462
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 2: Abigail mccoubet will have her back in just a sec.

463
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, very strange. Already I can see someone of

464
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 2: the phone technical to say, yo, so we'll try and

465
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: sort that out for a call. Hard to do a

466
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 2: radio show if your phone system is working again on mccouba.

467
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: I think that might have been us. Sorry about that.

468
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 2: We were talking Where were we were talking about you?

469
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 2: You were talking about exchange rates and how you look

470
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 2: through the long term.

471
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 11: Yeah, so I was saying that we generally look through

472
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 11: careers of our customers where you generally start saving in

473
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 11: your twenties and you want your payout in your sixties.

474
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 11: So we are required to look through the cycle, and

475
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 11: our assets and liability management strategies obviously take that into consideration.

476
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 11: So we don't look at the year to year or

477
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 11: monthly for an exchange up and down, and that's why

478
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 11: you will see when we report our results, we generally

479
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 11: focus on underlying earnings excluding the impacts for an exchange.

480
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 11: As well as bond markets.

481
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 2: Move your life insurance net cash flows. I think they doubled.

482
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 2: Where's that new business coming from? I mean, what drove that?

483
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 11: A lot of it is coming from the if you

484
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,479
Speaker 11: look at the dynamic within the South African context, well,

485
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 11: I suppose it's globally as well. We saw equity markets

486
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 11: doing brilliantly end of last year, and that you see

487
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 11: in the behavior of people who then start to move

488
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 11: some of their funds to invest in equities and also

489
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 11: to bring it on shore with the point of the

490
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 11: exchange rate as well as being able to invest on

491
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 11: rallying on the rally of the equity markets, that drove

492
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 11: a lot of that net client cash flow. What was

493
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 11: exciting for us is we were in the middle of

494
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 11: corproductivity was ninety one, particularly for our asset management business,

495
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 11: but that if you look at the South African asset

496
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 11: management operations, they delivered quite a sgnificant part of our

497
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 11: net client cash flow during this period.

498
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: Your joint venture with go Time, and I think one

499
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: of your colleagues suggested, this is going to be very

500
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: very significant going forward. I mean go Time used to

501
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: be called Time Bank. How big is that for you?

502
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 2: I mean digital banking show the way forward obviously also

503
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: very competitive. So any mistake made now of long term

504
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 2: consequences for later.

505
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's significant for us from a strategic direction perspective

506
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 11: and us attaining our twenty thirty goal and vision. We

507
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 11: have announced that in our South Africa business, we talk

508
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 11: about a winning as one South Africa that we've got

509
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 11: a proposed retail credit to adventure with go Time, and

510
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 11: we would like that to grow obviously significantly, and we

511
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 11: believe that it can grow significantly given the South African ecosystem. However,

512
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 11: the process still with regulatory approvals a bit difficult to

513
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 11: actually go into their details, but the logical the strategy

514
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 11: behind it is we want to introduce transactional banking capabilities

515
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 11: to our clients and in true Sanlam style, we generally

516
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 11: like to do such initiatives with partners and that's why

517
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 11: we have partnered with Go Time.

518
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 12: Was there a.

519
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: Particular reason why go Tom, I mean, look, I mean

520
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 2: I can see the attraction. They have been growing very strongly.

521
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 11: It's mainly there. They're digital capabilities. They are far advanced

522
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 11: compared to if you look at the rest of the

523
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 11: South African banks. They've got digital capabilities that have been

524
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 11: proven already in the East in terms of if you

525
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 11: look at countries towards the East, but also in in

526
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 11: if you look in Brazil, there's the shareholder, there's one

527
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 11: of Go Time shareholders is actually in in Brazil and

528
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 11: that's a quite a significant bank in Brazil that is

529
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 11: quite advanced digitally, So we wanted a solution that would

530
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 11: work in an advanced digitally world going forward. We all

531
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 11: know the advancement of AI and everything else. It was

532
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 11: to say you don't want to have a traditional bank,

533
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 11: but one that is digitally active.

534
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: Abigail mccobert really appreciate the time. Sorry for that interruption,

535
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: Thank you, Chief Financial officer at Sanlam.

536
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 8: The Money Show, Stephen Krutz is brought to you by APPS,

537
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 8: our corporate and investment backing proud sponsors of GTR Africa

538
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 8: twenty twenty six, enabling trade flows for growth APS as

539
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 8: a registered FSP.

540
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: Eight minutes to seven of the mining firms Savania's Silwater

541
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: announcing today it's scrapping its mandatory retirement age for its

542
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: executive directors. That means that they can stay in office

543
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: for much longer. There'll be an annual assessment. Andrew Woodburn

544
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: is a managing director at AM Rob Woodburn man expert

545
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: on this kind of thing. Andrew good Evening, look, retirement

546
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: ages seemed obvious at one point. We're all living a

547
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: lot longer, some of us, I suppose they're living a

548
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: lot harder, but people are generally healthier than their grandparents were.

549
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: There must be pros and cons to scrapping a retirement

550
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 2: age and all sorts of directions.

551
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 12: Good evening, Steven and your listeners exactly, and I love

552
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 12: the voice messages from your listeners, because of course nobody

553
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 12: can father time. So this issue affects all of us,

554
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 12: whether you're a youngster climbing the ladder, whether you're in

555
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 12: the middle of your career delivering great results, or whether

556
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 12: in some cases, and I say this is the best

557
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 12: of intention, you're an old bull leading from the front

558
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 12: and utilizing your deep experience to contribute to the organization.

559
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 12: So there are plus and minuses to this. But we're

560
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 12: absolutely seeing a trend both globally and in particular in

561
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 12: emerging markets for other reasons, where talent is kept on longer.

562
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 12: And I'm okay with that because I think in the

563
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 12: modern era it's about the comparison of delivery of results

564
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 12: against mandate, and in fact the age element is becoming

565
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 12: less of a material thought process.

566
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 5: Although you can go and.

567
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 12: Look at the big accounting firms, in many cases they're

568
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 12: very strict about sixty. So there's no right answer to this,

569
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 12: But we're absolutely seeing a trend towards keeping great leadership,

570
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 12: great talent longer, provided of course, that it meets the

571
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 12: criteria that the particular institution and either board or executive

572
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 12: committee needs.

573
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: Isn't one of the problems. If I were a younger

574
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: person coming up, I would see this happening, and I'll

575
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: be quite frustrated. And I would also think to myself,

576
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: this is older people on the board making decisions for

577
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: older people in the leadership, and in fact me, myself

578
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: and I and all of my younger friends or younger

579
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: colleagues are being pushed out or held back.

580
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 12: So it's a good question, But I do want to

581
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 12: make a clear distinction between the executive committee that those

582
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 12: of us who go to work every single day and

583
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 12: are in the prime of our careers and rarely are

584
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 12: looking to deliver significant performance results outputs against mandate. That

585
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 12: is Stephen, as you and I would like to call it,

586
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 12: people with a job versus the board. That is essentially

587
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 12: now a much more strategic governance, ethics, sustainability. The famous

588
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 12: esg orientated and don't go to work every day. They

589
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 12: often only meet somewhere between four to six times a year,

590
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 12: the role that play is significantly different.

591
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 4: We look for both.

592
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 5: Steady hand on the wheel.

593
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 12: We look for calm in prices.

594
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 5: We look for strategic.

595
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 12: Guidance and advisory to the people with daily jobs, the

596
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 12: CEO and the EXCO. And so if you extend the

597
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 12: opportunity on the board, I don't see that as excluding

598
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 12: up and coming talent from an opportunity. I'm more of

599
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 12: a free marketeer, and I will say to a young

600
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 12: person who feels they're ready for a board role, well,

601
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 12: then you need to illustrate that you are the best

602
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 12: individual for the seat and on a regular basis, prove

603
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 12: that you are worth your seat. And therefore age is

604
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 12: almost irrelevant. It's about are you delivering against mandate? Are

605
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 12: you the best individual for the opportunity that that institution needs,

606
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 12: and if so, you'll get the opportunity.

607
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 5: Whether there is a valid.

608
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 12: Concern if you're younger climbing the ladder, it is the

609
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 12: next rung blocked. But in many cases I prefer the

610
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 12: performance objective of well then are you as good or

611
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 12: better than that individual who's blocking you? And you and

612
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 12: I Stephen, when we look at the companies that you review,

613
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 12: many many cases see reached structs see operating models. Changed

614
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 12: seek either consolidation, centralization or decentralizing, where younger individuals absolutely

615
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 12: get the opportunity and in some cases lead. Using the

616
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 12: age element here, older individuals because they're either more agile,

617
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 12: they're more progressive, they're more technically capable, they're more technically able,

618
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 12: they've got more energy, they can go longer, they can

619
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 12: go harder, they're more aggressive in the market. So it's

620
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 12: horses for courses here. And I would say to young

621
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 12: people absolutely, it is not holding you back, and you

622
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 12: should not use that as an excuse to feel that

623
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 12: you don't have the opportunity. You should be shooting at performance.

624
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 2: It's tempting to think, well, there's something happening in the

625
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: South African market, maybe it's too small, and that's why

626
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 2: we're seeing talent leadership leaders being asked to stay on

627
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 2: for longer. But it would also seem to me that

628
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 2: leadership is something people generally get better. But as they

629
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: get older. We all know people with more experience than us,

630
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 2: and we all look up to them and respect them

631
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 2: because they know things that we don't. They have a

632
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: sense of things. They may on one level, as you

633
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: get older, sometimes you don't rush to judgment as you

634
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 2: do when you're younger, but you also know how a

635
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: situation is going to end, and so might I suppose

636
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: if you look at the scope of human history, or

637
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: certainly a corporate history, be inevitable that leaders would get older.

638
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 12: And I think that that's the element of maturity. It's

639
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 12: the element of wisdom. And you may equate wisdom with

640
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 12: gray hair at times, but there are absolutely individuals in

641
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 12: their forties who illustrate wonderful wisdom. I mean, I think

642
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 12: in a world where you know, some of my clients

643
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 12: use the WUKA term, where the volatility of the environment

644
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 12: can be the oil press can be up one day

645
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 12: and then some announcement get mad and the oil prices

646
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 12: is back down again, where that maturity, the calmness, intuition,

647
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 12: experience rarely comes into play, the strategic ability to contribute,

648
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 12: and then there is absolutely an element of leadership which

649
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 12: does fall from I've had more breaths the concept of

650
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 12: the ten thousand hours to greatness concept, but I'm very

651
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 12: careful not to just say older people are more mature

652
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 12: and better. I always use the framework that must be

653
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,479
Speaker 12: applied for the role as desired and who is best

654
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 12: fit against both the strategic requirements, the output of the role,

655
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 12: the institutional needs and so on. So I think we

656
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 12: are an emerging market. We are suffering from a talent

657
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 12: pool reduction, and therefore one of the ways to mitigate

658
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 12: that is to open it up for individuals who absolutely

659
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 12: have shown the capable, they interested, they're engaged, they have

660
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 12: the track record, they're respected, and therefore use that regular

661
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 12: assessment model to see how long do they go and

662
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 12: are we all in agreement and when it's time, it's

663
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 12: still time. But I think the modernization of this concept

664
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 12: means we are leaving behind. We retire at sixty.

665
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: Andrew Wooburn, thanks so much. Good to chat Managing director

666
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: of AMROP woodburn Man's fascinating your views on this two

667
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: seven oh two, one, seven oh two, just on seven

668
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 2: o'clock and.

669
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: Now The Money Show with Stephen Scribers on seven oh two.

670
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 2: Let's walk lit on The Money Show with Stephen Curtis

671
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: is brought to you by ABS of Corporates and Investment Banking,

672
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: proud sponsors of GTR Africa twenty twenty six, Enabling Trade

673
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: Flows for Growth Absence Registered FSB eight minutes after seven.

674
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: All right, lots to come. Don't forget investment school. This

675
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: evening quite intriguing actually about dividend focused investing. So in

676
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 2: other words, you're looking at the dividends you'll get paid

677
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: while you own the shares, rather than the sort of

678
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: future value of the shares. Obviously you keep an eye

679
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 2: on that too. We speak to see Pomolele Zondie in

680
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: just a moment of tickes, but he's been looking at

681
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: the online gambling issue. And then when you're a small

682
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 2: business in small business focus, how do you go about

683
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 2: hiring the right people, how do you manage the salary

684
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 2: for it? All of that such and not as the

685
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: CEO at job Crystal. I think that'll be quite a

686
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: useful conversation. Good to hear from you. O double one

687
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 2: double A three oh seven O two two one four

688
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: four six F five six seven and voice notes on

689
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: seven two seven oh two one seven oh two The Lanely.

690
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: Show with Stephen Kruders live on ninety two point seven

691
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: and one O six FM, streaming on the Prime Media

692
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: Plus NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

693
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: Well, there was an interesting comment in Parliament yesterday by

694
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: Dedis Martana. He is in charge of the commission that

695
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 2: sort of investigates enforcements Black economic empowerment, And he was

696
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: saying yesterday that there are a large number of companies

697
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 2: that are just not reporting on THEE and he feels

698
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: that if they're not reporting on it, they're not implementing it.

699
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 2: And I think he's probably right on that. And he

700
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: also says, you know, there's no power under the law

701
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: to kind of force compliance, and there's a sense I

702
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: think around THEE which might be one of the contributing

703
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 2: factors towards us. Obviously, there's no penalty in your against it,

704
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 2: or it doesn't suit you whatever, you're not going to

705
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: do something. And you can say the same about p

706
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 2: or anti b or anti smoking legislation. You know, depending

707
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 2: on where you sit on these things, or where you

708
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 2: stand on these things, that's what's going to happen. The

709
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: other thing, though, is that I think and this may

710
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 2: be and this may be a sort of wrong perception.

711
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 2: So it's more of a feeling really, and you know,

712
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: you might have a different you might have a strong

713
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: different view. But I wonder if some businesses or some

714
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 2: business leaders just think, look, the ANC seems to be

715
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 2: on its way up. This is their view. The ANC

716
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: seems to be on its way out. They're the ones

717
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: who supported push Champion campaign for put B in the law.

718
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: No one else is defending it, so actually it's just

719
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: going to go away. And in the meantime, we're not

720
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 2: going to bother. And when that feeling takes hole, it's

721
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: actually quite hard to reverse things. And what I don't

722
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: see with B, and I think I've made this point before,

723
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 2: is outside of the A and C, how many people

724
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 2: defend it. You'll get one or two political parties in

725
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: different ways, but very few other people, business groups whatever,

726
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: will come and actively defend it. And I sometimes think

727
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 2: what's going wrong in this debate is we're hearing, for

728
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 2: the most part one side sometimes because of the Americans

729
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: or whatever it is, but we're not hearing the other

730
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 2: side often enough. And I wonder if that might be

731
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: a political problem. Eleven after seven, how many shows take Thursday,

732
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 2: well see Pumoalella Zondies your tech expert on the line

733
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 2: now at a good evening to you. And thus for

734
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 2: us really worried about online gambling and worried essentially about students.

735
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 2: I suppose what's the right phrase, blowing their money on

736
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 2: it and they're actually working with the National Gambling Board.

737
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 2: There's also suggestions of a twenty percent levey on gross

738
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: gambling revenue from online betting, So good evening, Sippulmeleta. I mean,

739
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 2: I've seen so many different predictions, surveys, guestimates about online

740
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 2: gambling in South Africa. From the numbers you've seen, how

741
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 2: big is it?

742
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 6: The government itselfs is hello schieff and let's start there.

743
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 6: The government itself is sill an in people about twenty

744
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 6: five point seven a percent, and that's year on year

745
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 6: when you're looking at twenty twenty three to twenty twenty four, right,

746
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 6: So they say that the shift from forty seven point

747
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 6: two billion in twenty twenty two twenty three to fifty

748
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 6: nine point three billion, So that is a huge increase

749
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 6: if you're looking at forty seven to fifty nine billion

750
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 6: in that one year. So there is a massive increase

751
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 6: that seems to be happening annually. And therefore it seems

752
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 6: like they're appetite is increasing and not in a small manner,

753
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 6: and it seems like it's it's growing quite massively in

754
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 6: South Africa.

755
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: I mean, what is that doing to casinos? And surely

756
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: they're on the decline.

757
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 6: Well, casinos are on the decline, and I suppose that

758
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 6: you may think of the stigma that casino started to have,

759
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 6: right you mentioned spoking just now. It's sort of like

760
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 6: a with cigarettes having a stigma, but it seems that

761
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 6: people shift to something else, So it's the same. It's

762
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 6: the same thing here where it's happening on various platforms

763
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 6: that are online sports. Betting is a huge one where

764
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 6: that they're worried about. So students seem to be spending

765
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 6: there and asrust money on betting on various games locally

766
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 6: and internationally.

767
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I think a lot of people see it,

768
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: and it can be advertised. I suppose it's participating in

769
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 2: sport makes you feel a part of it. Is this

770
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 2: different from from esports or online gaming.

771
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 6: It's completely different from esports because with esports, you think

772
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 6: about somebody who's sitting at home, maybe playing a game

773
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 6: of SIFA with somebody who's in a different part of

774
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 6: the world. Some people play esports professionally. Yes, there is

775
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 6: money to be played for. There are in sports leagues

776
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 6: that people play in as well, and sometimes they could

777
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 6: sit in an organize facility, a room where they are

778
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 6: competing against each other, So that's more organized, and they

779
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 6: it's organized more like a sports tournament or a sports competition,

780
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,720
Speaker 6: whereas here it's people who essentially are trying to predict

781
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 6: what's going to be happening. And yet their money most

782
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 6: of the time is being put into the and and

783
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 6: and it doesn't grow, disappears. And actually today I heard

784
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 6: of a student who did win four thousand rands, decided

785
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 6: to take that an our four thousand runt, put it

786
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 6: back in, and all of us then disappeared. When he

787
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 6: put it back in, it didn't win anything back after

788
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 6: after the first win.

789
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: So students in particular seem to be quite vulnerable to this.

790
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 2: I mean, is this why the gambling board is getting

791
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 2: involved here with nurse Fars?

792
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 6: I also suppose it's the yes, it is. And I

793
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 6: also suppose the amount of time that people are spending

794
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 6: on their mobile devices, because when you think about your

795
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 6: mobile device, you move, you shift from one thing to

796
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 6: the next, and our students as well, they'll be shifting

797
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 6: from one thing to the next, and then they watch

798
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 6: these games and they're hoping to make a quick back,

799
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 6: and they're hoping that some of that and it's us

800
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 6: money is going to grow beyond the one thousand, seven

801
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 6: hundred rand allowance as that they would be getting and

802
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 6: that that end up with more money. And also because

803
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 6: they're all watching sports and so it may seem harmless

804
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 6: because it's on a a device.

805
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: I mean, isn't that interesting? So stats say now includes

806
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: online gambling in their numbers. It's part of household consumption

807
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: and the recreation category. What does that tell us about

808
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: household spending? How much of it's going in that direction.

809
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 6: Well, that's the thing, the fact that it would be

810
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,479
Speaker 6: included there. That means this is not something that people

811
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 6: do once in a while recreationally. This means that in

812
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 6: certain households, this is money that is spent every single

813
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 6: month going into online bed. The sports pare saying online

814
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 6: gambling of various kinds hence that massive increase that we

815
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 6: we spoke about earlier when we started this conversation as well,

816
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 6: which means this is not just a small recreational thing

817
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 6: that people do. This is something that people put money

818
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,720
Speaker 6: in and yes, it could contribute significantly to the economy.

819
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 6: But there is worry that the gambling board has has

820
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 6: raised hands. They are partnering with Anasas in order to

821
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 6: caution students because clearly the industry itself is also worried

822
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 6: about it. Hence the this this partnership in the gambling board.

823
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 2: And no, I'm sure, I mean, I'm sure that's for

824
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 2: says it's it's quite difficult to change behavior in some ways.

825
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 2: Government's looking at a proposed taxing online gambling, and they're

826
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 2: all sorts of suggestions, but it does look like it

827
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 2: might be about twenty percent, and I imagine they've they've

828
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 2: done some thinking about why specifically that figure.

829
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 6: And there are people in the gambling industry are opposed

830
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 6: to this because they're saying that there could be overreach

831
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 6: when it comes to and over regulation as well when

832
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 6: it's but obviously industry is industry, and because they're they're

833
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 6: worried about profits. But I suppose that the government might

834
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 6: say they're looking at it like the syntaxis that government

835
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 6: has on various things like like alcohol, like cigarettes, and

836
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 6: they're now stretching over through through the gambling industry and

837
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 6: they're saying, well, let's just have that in a twenty

838
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 6: percent on.

839
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,959
Speaker 2: Tax, thank you very much. Indeed, put moolela z Ondie

840
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 2: ready to appreciate the time he's our techa Expertill herem

841
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 2: every time at this at the stage during the week

842
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 2: on the Money Show. There's so much to look at

843
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 2: with this issue. And I'm sure there'll be arguments from

844
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 2: the online gambling industry too to say, look, this is

845
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: the contribution we're making, this is how much by law

846
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 2: they have to pay back a certain amount, and so

847
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 2: all of those things I think will be very, very interesting.

848
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 2: Microsoft South Africa has launched Mission Next, a high impact

849
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 2: equity equivalent investment program campaign calling on South Africa's most ambitious,

850
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 2: future ready black owned smmes to own their next phase

851
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 2: of growth. Mission Next forms part of Microsoft's commitment to

852
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: empower establish black owned businesses with the tools, skills, and

853
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 2: global tier technology required for rapid scaling.

854
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 10: Stephen has gone x at at Stephen.

855
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 2: Well a reminder that in a few moments we'll be

856
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: talking about dividend focused investing, not something I've ever really

857
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 2: thought about. And I was trying to think we had

858
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 2: any conversations. We've had a converse about how dividends work,

859
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: but I don't think we've ever had one about why

860
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: you would invest in that way rather than just looking

861
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: at the future value of share prices. So I'm really

862
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: looking forward to that and in fact Vincent, Anthony Rajah

863
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: and Roy Mtorney will be with us, So looking forward

864
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: to that conversation. Investment School. If you ever i'm not

865
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 2: sure how or why something works in a particular way

866
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: or some technical aspect of investing, why don't you actually

867
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 2: let us know. Stephen at seven oh two Stephen at

868
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 2: cape talk dot dot today will get me and you

869
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: could make your proposal there also on HO seven two

870
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 2: seven oh two one seven oh two. If there's something

871
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 2: you're a little unsure of as to why it works

872
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: like this or whatever it is, I think that could

873
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 2: be quite useful if you've got some things that you

874
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 2: just want to understand a little bit better, and we'll

875
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 2: see what we can do. Lucky enough to have access

876
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: to people who'll come in and school you and me

877
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 2: on Investment School nineteen after seven.

878
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 9: The money shows small business focus.

879
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: You know, when you starting a business, you're running a

880
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 2: small business and in the end, your biggest cost so

881
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 2: often is people, and they're what's going to cost you

882
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: the most money. They're also the most important thing, you know,

883
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: if you do well there that's going to make or

884
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 2: break your business. It also means that you have to

885
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 2: pay them in the appropriate way session not is the

886
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 2: CEO a job Crystal Sasha, good evening. It's interesting because

887
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 2: normally when companies are looking at employing people, they'll look

888
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 2: at certain benchmarks, and smaller companies, I think, don't always

889
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 2: look at the same benchmarks. They don't always have the

890
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 2: same information. Do they sometimes get their job off a

891
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: salary just wrong as a result, Yes, Hi.

892
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 13: Stephen, thanks very much for having us on. So Yes,

893
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 13: for small business, it's often salary benchmarks in the history

894
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 13: side has always more been for a corporate base because

895
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 13: it's been quite expensive. Now obviously with at the end

896
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 13: of AI, sms now have the ability to be able

897
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,439
Speaker 13: to get benchmark data and a fraction of the cost

898
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 13: because often sms pay people what they can afford based

899
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 13: on their budget, not in what the market is paying.

900
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 2: And I mean that's the issue, isn't it. A bigger

901
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 2: firm could always pay more. You have to maybe find

902
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 2: other ways to compensate, and one of them would be

903
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: you know, you'll learn more and this is I think

904
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 2: absolutely true. You'll learn more in a smaller firm than

905
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 2: a bigger one.

906
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 13: Absolutely, you learn more, you do more, you know, so

907
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 13: we kind of call it the pie for SME is smaller,

908
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 13: but you get to do more parts of it. So

909
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 13: you definitely get much more experience in SME and sm

910
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 13: should use that in their talk kit. You know, they're

911
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 13: not as structured with the red tape, which is definitely

912
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 13: a plus for many people, as well as flexibility remote working,

913
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,439
Speaker 13: which corporates aren't always available able to offer.

914
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: I mean when a small company sort of battles to

915
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 2: pay a competitive salary or just kind of gets it wrong.

916
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 2: So it's I mean I sometimes think it's you know,

917
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 2: the owner just saying, well, let me just do this.

918
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 2: You know, you only have one person really in many

919
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 2: case is working out what the job offer will be.

920
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 2: You don't have the same number. You know in other

921
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,959
Speaker 2: companies you'll have a group of people for this level,

922
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 2: we'll pay this. You don't have nearly as much input.

923
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 2: It's a completely different way of working.

924
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 13: Yes, absolutely, and that's why benchmark data is available now

925
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 13: for SMEs and it's able to help that pure owner founder.

926
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 13: You know, usually we found it it's one person doing

927
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 13: most of it until about fifty employees where that SME

928
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 13: founder can now be able to get benchmark data at

929
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 13: a kind of a click a button, which is great

930
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 13: for SMEs.

931
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 2: Now, I mean, where's the best place to look for that?

932
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: Because if you put into any kind of search engine,

933
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 2: you know what would you pay I don't know, a

934
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: radio presenter or a small business expert. You're going to

935
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 2: get a dollar value. You're not going to get a

936
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 2: round value.

937
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 13: Absolutely, so most of Google is going to be looking

938
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 13: at the US data. You can now use a job crystal.

939
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 13: We've created a tool where you can enter a job

940
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 13: description rather than just working on job title, which will

941
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 13: tell you what that pays and what's being paid in

942
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 13: the market with enough detail like what is the junior

943
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 13: intermediates and senior level, as well as what is the

944
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 13: gender pay gap and the provincial pay gap, which is amazing.

945
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: Sure, no, that is interesting. I mean talking about gender

946
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 2: pay gap. I mean we know that it exists, we

947
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 2: know that it's still a big thing in South Africa.

948
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: Do we have any data about whether there's a difference

949
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 2: in the gender pay gap between smaller firms and other firms.

950
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 13: I don't know. If we've dug enough into that detail

951
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 13: and it'll be quite interesting. What we do find in

952
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 13: general is men get about twenty four percent more salary

953
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 13: wise than females. Not in every section, in every industry,

954
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 13: but on average we find that, and I think that's

955
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 13: between between small business and between corporates.

956
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: Is it a good idea to be transparent? You're working

957
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 2: with a small group of people. You'll know who's worth what.

958
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 2: You'll have your own sense of it. If people get

959
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 2: the wrong end of the stick, if they misunderstand what

960
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 2: someone is earning, I mean all sorts of horrible emotions

961
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 2: and a small team, that's a bad idea. On the

962
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 2: other hand, giving on an increase and not others can

963
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 2: cause its own problems. How transparent should you be?

964
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 13: Yeah, I think it's a tricky one. You know. We

965
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 13: we often as business owners ask our staff not to

966
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 13: discuss salaries, but yeah, it often is discussed. And so

967
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 13: whatever you kind of give to the team, you need

968
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 13: to understand that it's probably going to be shared. So

969
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 13: I generally always say that when you do a benchmarking

970
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 13: exercise and look at for your full staff, discuss it

971
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 13: with absolutely everyone, and you can explain to you know,

972
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 13: for your sales staff, we're not going to increase your

973
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 13: base salary, but your commission is being changed. As an example,

974
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 13: so again you've got a lot more toolkits in your

975
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 13: kind of disposal as SMEs where you can go and

976
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 13: choose different things that you can offer different parts of

977
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 13: your employment.

978
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 2: You can also, I suppose explain this person does this,

979
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 2: this is why, and that person does that, because in

980
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: a small team, the chances are someone will eventually ask

981
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 2: the boss.

982
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 13: Exactly, And I think that's you know, a salary benchmarketing

983
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 13: a should be used on the other side. So as

984
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 13: an employee, you can go get a benchmark data and

985
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 13: take that through to your bus and say, look, this

986
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 13: is what the market's paying, this is what you're giving me.

987
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 13: How do we get how do we match that gap

988
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 13: and discuss that openly.

989
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 2: Are they differences between the cities in terms of salaries

990
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 2: that are paid? And I find that such an interesting

991
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 2: question because I mean, it will obviously depend on what

992
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 2: you do, and imagine there's a very big urban rural

993
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 2: difference too.

994
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 13: Yeah, and look, so there's always been an argument between

995
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 13: Joebert Cape Town Johannesburg store pays more. We find about

996
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 13: ten percent on average with then Cape Tong but then

997
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 13: it does, it really goes down. It's Johannesburg, Cape Town Quasdunatal.

998
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 13: You know, Eastern Cape Northwest is at the bottom, so

999
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 13: it does go down. There is a provincial pay gap

1000
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 13: we're finding. It's it's murky a little bit on the

1001
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 13: remote side. So if you're remote working in the Johannesburg

1002
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 13: versus remote working in Cape Town, it's similar, but Johannesburg

1003
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 13: stog gets paid.

1004
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 2: More well, I mean, of course, and when someone feels underpaid,

1005
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 2: what tends to happen because if you get that wrong,

1006
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: I mean they would I presume start to sort of

1007
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: look around or damage you or something.

1008
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 13: Yeah, so kind of what happens is obviously, if you

1009
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,839
Speaker 13: find out that you know, you could get paid more

1010
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 13: for the same job, you generally obviously always are looking

1011
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 13: around and you're opening that door, and you're also not

1012
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 13: putting one hundred percent into the business. You know, you

1013
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 13: can often say it's if you're not earning what you

1014
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 13: should be earning. You could go, Okay, well I'm not

1015
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 13: going to work eight hours a day. I'm going to

1016
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 13: work six hours a day. So it's not quite the

1017
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 13: quiet quitting, but it's a little bit more of not

1018
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 13: being completely one hundred percent present because you're feeling life's

1019
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 13: unfair or this is unfair and trying to figure that out,

1020
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 13: spend more time looking for a job.

1021
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 2: A big company say they employ you know, one hundred people,

1022
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 2: one of those people goes, you have to replace that person.

1023
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 2: That that person's only sort of one percent of your company.

1024
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 2: If you like a small company ten people, one of

1025
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 2: those people goes because they're unhappy because they weren't paid properly.

1026
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 2: You're now looking for ten percent and it requires and

1027
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 2: you're looking for a new person with a small team,

1028
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 2: so there must be quite a big cost to that

1029
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 2: sort of employee change for the owner slash founder slash

1030
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 2: manager of a small firm.

1031
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 13: Absolutely, and you know, obviously not paying people will has

1032
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 13: two kinds of problems. You take longer to recruit because

1033
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 13: obviously you're not paying market value, so you find it

1034
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 13: more difficult to find your talent.

1035
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 2: When you're not.

1036
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 13: Paying the right salaries, your staff turnover is higher, so

1037
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 13: you've got two problems when you don't get the right salary.

1038
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 13: Recruitment costs are expensive again with AI coming and that

1039
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 13: that is getting reduced, which is great, but obviously the

1040
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 13: opportunity cost of training the new person and then them

1041
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 13: leaving within a short period of time causes more opportunity

1042
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 13: cost obviously on the owner's side. And be able to

1043
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 13: do that we do take SME, so anything from five

1044
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 13: hundred employees and less of looking kind of at the

1045
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 13: SME sector when we do that.

1046
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,439
Speaker 2: Sasha, thanks so much, the CEO of job Crystal. Really

1047
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 2: interesting thing to consider. Twenty seven after seven.

1048
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 14: That's the sound of your business growing, whether you're starting

1049
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 14: out or scaling up. Turn your passion into profit with

1050
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 14: capy Tech Business Banking. Save up to fifty fees, get

1051
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 14: fast credit approvals, personalized support and forex for your business.

1052
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 14: Open your business banking account on our app bank on

1053
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 14: better with cappy Tech, the business bank for everyone. Capy

1054
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 14: Tech is an authorized FSP Fortunble six' nine teas and

1055
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 14: c's apply.

1056
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 9: Coming.

1057
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 2: Up the Aubriamer sunga show on.

1058
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 13: Eight.

1059
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 2: Aubrimasungo good, evening how's it? Going see you all a

1060
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 2: very very. GOOD i hope you're doing. Well, yeah, look

1061
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 2: you know tomorrow's.

1062
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 10: All.

1063
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 2: Right so lit's sir tell you what's happening on the.

1064
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 15: Show Doctor Zamo macito's author of the Book This Country

1065
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 15: Hates Our boys as my guest in the four hour

1066
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 15: and it Is, Oh i've had some conversations with, Him.

1067
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 15: Menda it is an interesting conversation. Altogether but we're talking

1068
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 15: about the issue of gender. ISSUES i suppose In South.

1069
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 2: Africa CAN i just say we're talking about gender based

1070
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 2: violence all the time and THERE'S i know there's some work,

1071
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 2: done BUT i get a little frustrated BECAUSE i think

1072
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 2: we're not doing enough work on the interior, minds the

1073
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 2: interior thoughts of young. Men we're doing a bit and

1074
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: presuming your book is about, that and that's precisely what

1075
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 2: the book is.

1076
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 15: About is he's arguing exactly the same way that you're

1077
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 15: arguing right, now and he really goes into some. Detail

1078
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 15: in the second hour of the, show we are looking

1079
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 15: at The Mazando Commission Tabisokorba senior And wood's news reporter

1080
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 15: will be telling us what's going on. THERE i think

1081
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 15: we're going to center the conversation around The President cyril

1082
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 15: not willing to publicize The Mazanga commission interim. REPORT i

1083
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 15: think is going to be a big part of that

1084
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 15: conversation and the course of the extension of The Mazanga

1085
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 15: commission and all of the drama. There bubba And denzel

1086
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 15: joins us half an hour later to talk about the

1087
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 15: wrapping up of the parliamentary at The Money.

1088
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 2: Show Investment school twenty four minutes now to eight or.

1089
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 2: So often on Investment school you hear conversations that are

1090
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 2: rarely about investing in the. Future what will the future

1091
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 2: price of this? Bee what will the future price of that?

1092
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 2: Be why did this person lose money when they bought

1093
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 2: and sold when they bought and sold a share, tonight

1094
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 2: we're actually not focusing on, that BUT i suppose you

1095
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 2: could call it in a way investing for the. Present

1096
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 2: we're talking about, dividends the money that you get because

1097
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 2: you own a. Share Vincent Anthony raja is THE ceo

1098
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 2: Of Differential. Capital he joins us. Online Roy, mattorney this

1099
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 2: portfolio manager at ninety One, james good. Evening thanks so

1100
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 2: much for coming. In, ROY i think first time we've

1101
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 2: had you on Investment. School. Welcome you'll see. That of,

1102
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 2: course we're very you, know stiff and. Sober here we

1103
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 2: all wear. Uniforms just to sort of start off, with

1104
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 2: what would the difference between dividend investing and growth investing

1105
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 2: be what what sort of differentiates your strategy and your

1106
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 2: brain one from the.

1107
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 10: Other those are polar opposite ways of. Investing so when

1108
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 10: you invest as a dividend, investor what you're looking for

1109
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 10: is mature companies that generate a lot of profits in.

1110
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 10: Cash they reinvest for their capex and for their, expansion

1111
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 10: and they have excess cash, afterwards and they're willing to

1112
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 10: pay that out as, dividends and over time they grow those.

1113
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 10: Dividends so when you look at their, earnings they're probably not,

1114
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 10: growing but the dividends continue to grow at least at.

1115
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 10: Inflation growth, investing on the other, hand is investing in

1116
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 10: companies that are going through an aggressive investment phase because

1117
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 10: their markets are, growing they're becoming more dominant in their,

1118
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 10: industries and what you're hoping for is over the longer,

1119
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 10: term their share price raises and the value of your investment.

1120
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,919
Speaker 10: Increases so the key difference is the dividend investor gets cash,

1121
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 10: today the growth investor hopes to get cash in the.

1122
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: Future, vincent would that mean then that you kind of

1123
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 2: want Different it sort of depends what you want to,

1124
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 2: do what your aim, is but different types of people

1125
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 2: will invest in different. Ways so if you have a

1126
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 2: shorter term, horizon maybe a, RETIREE i suppose dividends might

1127
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 2: be the way for. It yeah that's.

1128
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 9: Right good, Evening, stephen and good, Evening roy and to your.

1129
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 9: Listeners yeah that's. RIGHT i THINK i think the time

1130
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 9: frame is an important. CONSIDERATION i think you, know, generally

1131
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 9: like Like roy, said, dividends you certainly are, investing certainly

1132
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 9: for the nearer.

1133
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 2: Term that's your your.

1134
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 9: Sense you probably need the income for various, reasons so

1135
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 9: you want to match that against your own, requirements and

1136
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 9: that's where the thinking. Goes but maybe just to tack

1137
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 9: onto something That roy, said there's an important component to

1138
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 9: think when you're investing like, that and when you're considering

1139
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 9: this investment is what is the company. Doing so what

1140
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 9: you'll find is companies that have very high returns on

1141
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 9: the capital that they reinvest into their. Business by, definition

1142
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 9: they don't need to hold a lot of their capital, back,

1143
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 9: right so they can pay their access as a.

1144
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 2: Dividend sometimes you.

1145
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 9: In industries that are in a bit of decline and

1146
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 9: they're going to have to hold more and more and,

1147
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 9: more or there's capital requirements from, regulators et, cetera and

1148
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 9: that starts to then eroad the ability to pay out those.

1149
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 2: Dividends so those are the things you then start to

1150
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: bear and need to bear in. Mind, ROY i, mean

1151
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 2: one of the things is that you're looking for a regular.

1152
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 2: Investment you're looking for a reliable income, stream and with

1153
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 2: dividends you get that without actually having to sell the

1154
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 2: Share you still keep it.

1155
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 10: Afterwards, no, absolutely it's almost like having your cake and.

1156
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 10: Eating so the thing, is technically, speaking the share price.

1157
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 10: Adjusts so if the company declares the, dividend the share

1158
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 10: price goes up by that, amount and when they paid

1159
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 10: out it comes. Down but over, time what you've basically

1160
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 10: done is you've kept your. Shareholding the value of your

1161
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 10: shares has probably gone, up but you definitely have cash

1162
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 10: in your. Pocket so it's the most concrete way of

1163
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 10: assessing a successful. Company when when that company pays you,

1164
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 10: cash it must mean that they're doing something, right so

1165
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 10: to the to the lay investor the man in the.

1166
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 10: Street when when when you see a company growing dividends

1167
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 10: consistently over the, years your first assumption is that this

1168
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 10: is a successful company because they take care of all

1169
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 10: of their, stakeholders they give you, cash they reinvest in

1170
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 10: their business and they continue being sustainable over the longer.

1171
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 2: Term AND i mean the other, THING i mean events

1172
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 2: do you might have a view on. This when you get,

1173
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 2: dividends you get paid. Out if you can keep that,

1174
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 2: money you can reinvest that money and say you have

1175
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 2: a compounding. Effect you, know one becomes goodness knows. What,

1176
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 2: yeah that's, Right.

1177
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 9: STEPHEN i think many investors do reinvest their dividends back

1178
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 9: into the company, because Like roy, mentioned your understanding of

1179
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 9: the company its track record might mean that it consistently

1180
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 9: grows its, dividends and therefore you might also value the

1181
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 9: fact that relative to everything else out, there you've got

1182
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 9: this safe pair of hands that just continues to grow and.

1183
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 2: Compound and that's one way of looking at.

1184
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 9: It what we've also noticed in some of the property

1185
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 9: companies they actually give you the option so instead of

1186
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 9: receiving a, dividend they, say would you like to receive more,

1187
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 9: Shares and they might even give you a, Discount so

1188
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 9: instead of getting if they were paying five rand in,

1189
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 9: dividends they might give you five rand fifty in new.

1190
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 9: Shares so that's something we've seen in.

1191
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 6: With some of the.

1192
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 2: Companies, sure how, INTERESTING i mean the one of the

1193
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 2: reasons we invest is because of, inflation because you, know

1194
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 2: it's a. Thief Right does a Dividend does a dividend strategy.

1195
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 5: Help you with?

1196
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 13: That?

1197
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 9: No.

1198
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 10: Absolutely if you have a portfolio of companies that pay growing,

1199
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 10: dividends and THESE i think globally they're known as dividend.

1200
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 10: Aristocrats so every year you get a dividend and the

1201
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 10: next year it. Grows that tends to keep up with.

1202
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 10: Inflation and in that, way again we go back to

1203
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 10: the analogy that you that it's a bird in the.

1204
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 10: Hand so you've got your initial, investment the dividend keeps.

1205
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 10: Growing you can have some of, it consume some of,

1206
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 10: it you can reinvest. Some but you're beating their. Enemy

1207
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 10: you're beating. Inflation you're you're earning ahead of it and

1208
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 10: your asset remain.

1209
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 2: SECURE i, mean how important are dividend? ARISTOCRATS i mean

1210
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 2: there are a couple you're allowed to. Mention oh, yeah, no,

1211
01:05:59,120 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 2: absolutely there's.

1212
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:02,640
Speaker 10: NO i mean In South africa we have companies like,

1213
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 10: Bidcop we've Got British american, tobacco all of, these like

1214
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 10: Like vincent, said the property, companies they all have high.

1215
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 10: Yields they've consistently paid through their. History, internationally there's even

1216
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 10: ets you can buy of dividend aristocrats of companies that

1217
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 10: have been paying dividends for, Years caterpillar and the. Like, so,

1218
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 10: no they. Exist there's there's no real secret about, these

1219
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 10: and as an, investor you can actually put portfolios of

1220
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 10: these together and keep on reinvesting until you need the Cash.

1221
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 2: Vincent when you go this. Route so when you look

1222
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 2: at at dividends and you focus on, that do they

1223
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 2: change the way in which you BEHAVE i, mean if

1224
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 2: you're getting, did if you're getting paid out from, dividends

1225
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 2: you're not going to sell that, share are?

1226
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 13: You?

1227
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 9: Yeah Typically that's What i've, Noticed but it also depends

1228
01:06:55,760 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 9: on the type of. INVESTOR i find, that you, know retired,

1229
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 9: individuals you, know they really like that that feature That

1230
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 9: roy is, mentioned the high and growing. DIVIDEND i do

1231
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 9: find in certain cases there are reasons to potentially think

1232
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 9: about selling some of the high dividend. Payers so maybe

1233
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 9: just to, focus you, know to be, interesting to see

1234
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 9: What roy. Thinks you, know some in some in that

1235
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 9: bucket you, have like the likes of biitcop that you,

1236
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 9: know they just. Grow there's a there's a great growing

1237
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 9: industry that they're investing, into et. Cetera they have population,

1238
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 9: dynamics the whole. Lot but then you've got companies Like

1239
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 9: british In american, tobacco WHERE i have noticed that in

1240
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 9: some cases certain investors have sold out of, it partly

1241
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 9: on the fact that you know their their investment proposition

1242
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 9: is not as strong because the population of smokers is declining,

1243
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 9: worldwide potentially at a faster pace than you can increase

1244
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 9: the price of cigarettes to the remaining smoking, population and

1245
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 9: the threat of the e cigarettes and the lack of

1246
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 9: regulation in that market is just potentially a major. Headwind

1247
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 9: so you certainly have cases like that where, again going

1248
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 9: back to that COMMENT i, made where the dynamics around

1249
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 9: the industry that allow for a low amount of capital

1250
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 9: to be retained by the, company if that starts to,

1251
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 9: change that might give you a reason to, say, WELL

1252
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:30,640
Speaker 9: i don't necessarily need to keep this particular. Investment let

1253
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 9: me just diversify to some of the. Others, ROY i mean.

1254
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 10: Your view on, that, Yeah AND i completely agree with,

1255
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 10: Him AND i think it's important to make a distinction

1256
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 10: because there are things that these pitfalls in this form of,

1257
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 10: investing because if you just SAY i invest in a

1258
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 10: high dividend, yielding which means the ratio of the dividend

1259
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 10: page to the share price is. High you could actually

1260
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 10: be missing. OUT i mean that those could be value.

1261
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 10: Traps those could be companies whose share prices have fallen

1262
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 10: and as a, result the dividend yield looks. Rich you

1263
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 10: need to look at dividend growth as a starting, point

1264
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 10: and that's where your investment would be. Secure but, then

1265
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 10: just panning out a little, BIT i think there is

1266
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 10: room in every portfolio for these dividend growth businesses and growth.

1267
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:26,839
Speaker 10: Businesses if you think about, it the dividend growth business

1268
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 10: creates capital for you to throw in on the other,

1269
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 10: side particularly when you're at your early stages of, investing

1270
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 10: so you may not have disposable income from your job

1271
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 10: or your business or, whatever but your portfolio funds, itself

1272
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 10: and every six months or, so there's an amount of

1273
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 10: money that comes in that you can put. Either if

1274
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 10: you're feeling, bullish if you're feeling, excited you go into

1275
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,560
Speaker 10: the growth. Side if you're feeling it's dark times like

1276
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 10: we have right, now you go back into the dividend.

1277
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 10: Side and you combine those two and by the time

1278
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 10: you're ready to start harvesting from your, portfolio it's growth

1279
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 10: on without much input from.

1280
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 2: You, vincent there was a phrase That roy, used their dividend.

1281
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 2: TRAP i mean it sounds like something that could almost be. Contagious,

1282
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:15,480
Speaker 2: yeah it's actually an amazing.

1283
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 9: Illusion that happens, Sometimes steve so the concept That roy

1284
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 9: is referring to this sometimes when a share price has

1285
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 9: fallen so much and you look through the back window

1286
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:30,839
Speaker 9: as to what dividend they've just, paid as an, example

1287
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 9: and you, say, well you know, this this is an amazing.

1288
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 9: Investment it's got a great yield Underpin but then the reality,

1289
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 9: is let's call, it the circumstances that allowed that high

1290
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 9: dividend might not have been sustainable at. All and then

1291
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 9: you find that the dividend itself starts to collapse shortly.

1292
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 9: Thereafter and that's that's happened a number of. Times tends to,

1293
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,800
Speaker 9: happen more so in the financial. Sector so you, KNOW

1294
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 9: i remember one of the you, know if you're the,

1295
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 9: banks you go. Back there was a period in time

1296
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 9: where things Like African bank were trading on high dividend,

1297
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 9: yields but those dividends never materialized And that's why it's,

1298
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 9: important you know that that value trap sort of you

1299
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 9: think there's value, here but it turns out it never,

1300
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 9: arrives or in worse, cases you end up losing your

1301
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 9: capital as. Well so you, KNOW i Think roy makes

1302
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 9: an exceptionally important point that dividend has to, grow and

1303
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 9: some of the great opportunities you see in your investing

1304
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 9: sort of life cycle or career is where you can

1305
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 9: find something that's on a high dividend yield that will

1306
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 9: surprise the market in growing from that, base.

1307
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 13: You.

1308
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,560
Speaker 9: KNOW i think of stocks most more recently Like, coronation

1309
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 9: which at some point IN, absa which we're sitting at

1310
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 9: very high dividend yields because the share price is so

1311
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 9: low relative to the cash, generation and those those share

1312
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 9: prices of come up quite quite a lot since their.

1313
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 9: LOWS i think at some point you could have Bought

1314
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:07,759
Speaker 9: coronation on a dividend yield of thirteen, percent so relative

1315
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 9: to the rands you put, in you'd have gotten a

1316
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 9: dividend yield after tax of thirteen which is. Amazing AND

1317
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 9: i Think apso was that. Similar not quite as high as,

1318
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 9: that but maybe ten eleven. PERCENT roy interest rates are

1319
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 9: sort of, LOATH i mean not be for. Long how

1320
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:26,719
Speaker 9: do you rising interest? Rates sort of dividend.

1321
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:30,719
Speaker 10: Stocks so the thing about raising interest rates is remember

1322
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 10: people invest on the basis of. Risk so as interest rates,

1323
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 10: raise you FIGURE i can earn exactly the same without

1324
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 10: taking the risk of. Equity SO i can put my

1325
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 10: money in a government bond or in a fixed deposit.

1326
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 10: Somewhere because the banks have to be competitive and they

1327
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 10: increase their. Rates so then you start asking for a

1328
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:56,960
Speaker 10: greater you become more discerning about the dividend stocks that

1329
01:12:57,120 --> 01:12:59,560
Speaker 10: you're that you're looking at. There but THEN i go

1330
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 10: back to the beginning as. Well if the dividend stock

1331
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:05,040
Speaker 10: is a great quality, stock and if you got it

1332
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 10: at a great, valuation so relatively, cheap and you believe

1333
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,600
Speaker 10: the yield is going rather the dividend distribution is going to,

1334
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:15,679
Speaker 10: grow then you've got a big margin of safety through

1335
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 10: the interestrate. Cycle and that's that's rather the way to.

1336
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 10: Think but if you're looking at pure mature companies that

1337
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 10: and that pay a consistent, dividend then when interest rates,

1338
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 10: raised that share praise has to come down to compensate

1339
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 10: so that the yield goes.

1340
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 2: Up we're speaking To ROY moltoni portfolio manager at ninety

1341
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 2: one And Vincent anthony rajas here Of Differential Capital Investment.

1342
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 2: School this evening dividend Focused, investing you'll cause your questions

1343
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 2: seven two seven oh two one seven two nine Minutes stay.

1344
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 8: The Money Show Stupid crotes is brought to you BY

1345
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:54,759
Speaker 8: Appsol corporate And Investment, backing proud sponsors OF Gtr africa

1346
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:57,520
Speaker 8: twenty twenty, six enabling trade flows.

1347
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 2: For, growth as is the REGISTERED Fp The Money Show Investment.

1348
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,439
Speaker 2: School we're talking about dividend to focus investing tonight On

1349
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 2: Investment School Vincent Anthony Rancher see Of Differential, Capital ROY

1350
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 2: mottni portfolio manager at ninety. One, vincent sometimes companies don't

1351
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 2: pay dividends and that must be an issue for the

1352
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 2: people who hold those. Shares is it always bad news

1353
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:26,719
Speaker 2: when that, Happens not at, All Steve.

1354
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 9: Up, sometimes in cases where companies that you know actually

1355
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 9: can't pay, dividend share prices, go you, know through the,

1356
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 9: roof purely because if that company is retaining its capital

1357
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 9: for growth and everything that it's reinvesting is resulting in

1358
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 9: more and more, scale typically that can be you, know

1359
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 9: a very awesome. Sign so you, know one thinks of

1360
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 9: companies such like such A discovery which you, know the

1361
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 9: dividends is very low relative to the share price and

1362
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 9: it's always been the, case and then the bulls there

1363
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 9: would argue that it's able to reinvest that money and

1364
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 9: generate you, know extremely superior. Returns and therefore there's an

1365
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:10,760
Speaker 9: example of a company that doesn't pay. Much there's very

1366
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 9: low dividend. YIELD i think the expectations are of a

1367
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:17,600
Speaker 9: different dividend of AROUND i think it's around four or

1368
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 9: five rand and the share price is two hundred and

1369
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 9: Fifty ruand now so there's an example there where where

1370
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 9: it can turn out to be good for investors that

1371
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:32,240
Speaker 9: are invested in. That, then of course you have companies

1372
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 9: that don't pay dividends because there's something going wrong and getting,

1373
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 9: worse and you, know that's a that's a horrible sign

1374
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:45,599
Speaker 9: and often a potentially fatal one where a company holds its,

1375
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 9: dividends and that happens a lot as. Well typically In South,

1376
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 9: africa that tends to happen due to over leveraged, companies

1377
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:57,160
Speaker 9: so companies stretched as balance sheet too, much as geared

1378
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 9: up and maybe just To roy's, point the interust rates have,

1379
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:05,280
Speaker 9: risen and that's not only hurt the share, price but

1380
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:08,840
Speaker 9: now the interest costs that are bearing down on the,

1381
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:12,439
Speaker 9: company you, know produce its ability or eliminate its ability

1382
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 9: to pay, dividends and then you have a problem a Big.

1383
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah So roy AND i mean in the, end what

1384
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:20,360
Speaker 2: we what we do is we have, money we have,

1385
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 2: capital and we want to invest. That, now if you

1386
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:25,680
Speaker 2: put it into a share, price you put in put

1387
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 2: it in a two. Rand if the share price goes

1388
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:31,600
Speaker 2: to four, rand you get that. Back plus if you

1389
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 2: invest in, dividends you're doing this in a different. Way

1390
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 2: so when the dividend comes to, you so it's a

1391
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:41,920
Speaker 2: sort of money that's been generated for you or can

1392
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:44,560
Speaker 2: it just be your own money you've invested in it

1393
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 2: now just coming.

1394
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:48,360
Speaker 10: Back, yeah that's that's an interesting way to think of,

1395
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:52,400
Speaker 10: it because ultimately what it is is you set money,

1396
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 10: aside or you lent the company, money you took, risks

1397
01:16:56,479 --> 01:17:00,639
Speaker 10: the company went out and its income and gave you something. Back,

1398
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:05,640
Speaker 10: remember values reflected in the income you make and the

1399
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 10: value of your. Share the value of your share is

1400
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:11,560
Speaker 10: driven by many other. Things so if if if the

1401
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:15,639
Speaker 10: income is, growing generally the value of your share will keep.

1402
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 10: Growing but also remember there's another very interesting thing that

1403
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:22,560
Speaker 10: you could. Do if the company wasn't paying, dividends you

1404
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 10: can manufacture your own dividend simply by selling off shares

1405
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 10: every so. Often, yeah you're holding would, fall but you'd

1406
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 10: still have cash in the. Pocket so that's the equivalence

1407
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 10: that you're talking. About you could think of it as

1408
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 10: the company giving you back money or as a company

1409
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:44,640
Speaker 10: earning an income to service your return. Requirements either of

1410
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 10: them is exactly the. Same the investor just earns a.

1411
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 10: Return one we call capital gain and the other we

1412
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 10: call it dividend.

1413
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 2: VINCENT i, mean so most of the time you AND

1414
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:58,879
Speaker 2: i have spoken about growth, investing this is dividend, investing

1415
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 2: which which sort of wins over the longer. Term AND i, mean,

1416
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 2: look it's usually quite a long. Game, Yeah, steve that's

1417
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 2: a that's a very tricky. ONE i, mean it's hard

1418
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 2: to say in general terms what wins in terms of absolute.

1419
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 2: Return but this is probably WHERE i THINK i need

1420
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:24,560
Speaker 2: to bring the risk into the. Equation if you factor in,

1421
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:27,880
Speaker 2: risk so you know the chances of.

1422
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 9: A real volatile drop in your capital, VALUES i think

1423
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 9: it's quite safe to say that, empirically the dividend paying

1424
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:40,479
Speaker 9: companies are the ones you want to invest, in Right

1425
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:43,240
Speaker 9: and There i'm saying is if you don't want to

1426
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 9: necessarily wake up one, afternoon then there's been a complete

1427
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:51,880
Speaker 9: collapse in share, prices the growth prospects of the world have.

1428
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 9: Dampened you'll find these points in time due to this extreme,

1429
01:18:55,240 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 9: volatility your your your growth stocks then under perform and

1430
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 9: there will be periods of time where your growth or

1431
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 9: low dividend payers then look like a terrible. Investments and

1432
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:08,880
Speaker 9: those periods of time can be, long you, know fifteen

1433
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 9: years or, so and that's WHY i think you need

1434
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:15,240
Speaker 9: to factor in the. Risk, however if your time horizon

1435
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 9: is really, long you, KNOW i would say well north

1436
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:24,639
Speaker 9: of say twenty, years maybe approaching the thirty year. Mark

1437
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 9: and here's the important. Caveat if your growth stocks are

1438
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:34,760
Speaker 9: the ones that, survive you can substantially. Outperform you, know

1439
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 9: there's a study that's done by a guy Called best

1440
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,120
Speaker 9: and been, there which IS i think you show that

1441
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 9: almost all the returns on THE s AND p five

1442
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:44,559
Speaker 9: hundred were generated by a small fraction of the shares

1443
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:47,720
Speaker 9: E those that. Survived so this is where you need

1444
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 9: to be very clear in terms of what are those

1445
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:53,160
Speaker 9: growth stocks that. Survived and that's WHY i say that

1446
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:56,640
Speaker 9: also elevates the. Risk so going back to balancing the

1447
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 9: risk in, MIND i think if that's a priority for,

1448
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 9: you your time horises are listed sort of fifteen years or.

1449
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 9: SO i think the dividends generally tend to be safer

1450
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 9: investments for most.

1451
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 2: Investors, roy we've got ten seconds, left would you agree fifteen? Years,

1452
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:15,679
Speaker 2: well no company grows.

1453
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 10: Forever and IF i give you an, example you Had

1454
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 10: cisco in the tech boom that was the big go go,

1455
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 10: company wasn't paying, dividends was growing, aggressively share price got

1456
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:29,479
Speaker 10: stuck for twenty. Years now it's a nice high yielding dividend.

1457
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 10: Play just goes to show, you, yes the longer horizon

1458
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 10: does pay, off but also that you can't have one

1459
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:38,799
Speaker 10: without the. Other you have growth and you have dividend

1460
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 10: investing at different life.

1461
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:43,760
Speaker 2: Stages Roy, mattoni thank, you portfolio manager at ninety One

1462
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 2: Vincent Anthony rajers here At Differential capital On Investment. School, tonight.

1463
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:52,160
Speaker 8: The Money Show Stupid protest is brought to you BY

1464
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:56,839
Speaker 8: Appsol corporate And investment Backing proud sponsors OF Gtr africa

1465
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 8: twenty twenty, six enabling trade flows for.

1466
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:04,880
Speaker 2: Growth ours is THE Richiterasb, Well i'm afraid. Oil the oil,

1467
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 2: SHOCK i think we can call it. That still having

1468
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 2: a big impact ON us, markets The Dow jones down

1469
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:12,639
Speaker 2: one point zero nine, percent monastic down one point three

1470
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 2: five AND s AND p five hundred down one point

1471
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:18,840
Speaker 2: one three money show back tomorrow that evening eight o'clock