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Speaker 1: Seven oh two, we get breakfast psychological wellness.

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Speaker 2: Doctor gorci Ganni.

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Speaker 3: It's nine minutes after nine o'clock, time for us to

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Speaker 3: talk psychological wellness for this week, and we're talking about

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Speaker 3: the psychology behind certainty. Do we actually ever have certainty?

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Speaker 3: Or do we create certainty? We say certain things are

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Speaker 3: certain so that we have peace, we have a sense

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Speaker 3: of Okay, this thing is what it is. I don't

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Speaker 3: need to think about it again. And you shove it

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Speaker 3: away and you close that tab. Is that what we're

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Speaker 3: doing when we talk about things being certain? What happens

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Speaker 3: when it turns out that the thing you thought was true,

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Speaker 3: the thing you thought was certain. What happens when it

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Speaker 3: turns out not to be true and it is suddenly uncertain.

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Speaker 3: And we've all had that experience. It happens a lot

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Speaker 3: in romantic relationships. You'll hear people say things like, oh,

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Speaker 3: suddenly I didn't know them anymore, or suddenly I didn't

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Speaker 3: recognize the person I married or the person I was worth,

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Speaker 3: the person I lived with.

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Speaker 2: Because what you thought was certain, what you thought was.

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Speaker 3: True, this was irrefutable, this was a fact actually turned

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Speaker 3: out not to be So are they certainties in life?

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Speaker 3: Are the things you can say this is one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent true? Or have we kind of done that help

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Speaker 3: us navigate what can often be a tricky experience of

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Speaker 3: being human. Give us a call on one one eighty

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Speaker 3: three or seven two cent us an SMS on three

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Speaker 3: one seven o two. Share your experiences of when you

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Speaker 3: thought the thing was absolutely true, for certain, it couldn't

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Speaker 3: be challenged, the logic was solid, turned out that it wasn't.

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Speaker 3: Send us a voice note I know seven two seven

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Speaker 3: two one seven oh two joints always by our residents.

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Speaker 3: Clinical psychologist, doctor Corci, doctor Jannet, A very good morning too.

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Speaker 1: Looks good morning, good morning to you too.

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Speaker 3: So we meet once again to ask thing difficult, confusing

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Speaker 3: questions about what it means.

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Speaker 2: To be human?

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Speaker 1: Right we rettl the cage.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: So this week we're talking about the idea of certainty.

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Speaker 3: And it's interesting because the article you sad says it

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Speaker 3: is the illusion of certainty.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't even qualt it the idea.

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Speaker 3: It is an illusion, which is it appears to be

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Speaker 3: a real thing, but like an illusion.

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Speaker 2: It is not.

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Speaker 1: It's the mirage on the road as you drive right.

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Speaker 1: And I mean even I just found that just like

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Speaker 1: that really caught my attention, just that title, because I

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Speaker 1: just it jerked me, you know, like I had to, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's give this a thing, you know, because it really

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Speaker 1: is shaking the brain or the way that we generally

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Speaker 1: process and try to make sense of the world. And

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Speaker 1: so what's interesting, of course, is, you know, we always

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Speaker 1: go to the evolutionary box and say nature does not

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Speaker 1: work against itself, nature does not waste. So what is

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Speaker 1: this proclivity and why is it such an you know,

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Speaker 1: an innate part of being human, so that there must

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Speaker 1: be some logic to this madness. And we and we

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Speaker 1: go back and we and we look at primitive man.

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Speaker 1: How have we been able to navigate uncertainty in the

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Speaker 1: space that we are thrust into and have to not

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Speaker 1: just exist but kind of eke out some form of

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Speaker 1: living right, And we have had to We use this

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Speaker 1: colloquially and we say, you must connect the dots. You

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Speaker 1: must connect the dots. And that's exactly what humans have

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Speaker 1: had to do and continue to have to do. And

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Speaker 1: in connecting the dots, our survival depended on our ability

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Speaker 1: to connect the dots. If the grass seems to be

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Speaker 1: moving in a certain way, you need to connect the

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Speaker 1: dots because if you didn't, you know, you would find

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Speaker 1: yourself you could easily turn into fruit salad. So we've

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Speaker 1: had to kind of make that very quick connection, and

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Speaker 1: that's why we talk about the reptilian brain. That's the

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Speaker 1: reptilian brain that you know is the primary brain. That

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Speaker 1: is the brain that develops to ensure our survival. And

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Speaker 1: so in order to survive, you have to quickly connect

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Speaker 1: the dots. And that's why we call it a knee

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Speaker 1: jerk reaction, your fight, flight, freeze and phone. You know,

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Speaker 1: your knee jerk reaction, that's your instinct, that's your reflex,

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Speaker 1: and that's what all of this comes from.

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Speaker 3: So it's always interesting learning about the human brain because

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Speaker 3: part of the thing that kept us alive that kind

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Speaker 3: of helps us eventually become dominant specie kind of top

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Speaker 3: of the future. We dominate both animals and you know,

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Speaker 3: terrain is also the thing that's kind of made us

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Speaker 3: a little bit not unhappy, but it's given.

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Speaker 2: Us a lot of questions. Here's what I mean.

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Speaker 3: So I did anthropology in vasity, and one of the

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Speaker 3: first things they teach you in anthro is part of

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Speaker 3: the thing that makes us special that a lot of

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Speaker 3: other mammals and animals don't have. If we have this

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Speaker 3: really expensive brain that can reflect on itself and reflect

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Speaker 3: on the world and create culture, so systems of meaning,

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Speaker 3: systems of being, things around who we are. We now

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Speaker 3: know other animals can also have complex systems, orcas elephants. Interestingly,

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Speaker 3: these are matuallylineal societies, but we'll come back to that

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Speaker 3: another day. So this brain of ours, this really great

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Speaker 3: brain of ours, helps us make sense of things.

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Speaker 2: Who am I?

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Speaker 3: What is the meaning of life? How do I feel

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Speaker 3: about coci? How do I feel about the rain? Right

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Speaker 3: kind of having us answer or ask all of these questions.

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Speaker 3: But it also seems that in the same way the

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Speaker 3: brain is able to do that, and that is amazing

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Speaker 3: and it's allowed us to progress. It's also the thing

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Speaker 3: that seems to stress us out. The brain cannot tolerate

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Speaker 3: too many questions.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and so when there are too.

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Speaker 3: Many questions or what people would call tabs, so you

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Speaker 3: have all of these tabs open running in the background.

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Speaker 2: The brain doesn't seem to like.

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Speaker 3: That either, and so we go for shorthand available quick answers,

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Speaker 3: those knee jerke yep things. Because while it is able

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Speaker 3: to be quite complex and deep.

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Speaker 2: Too much of it is not good also.

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Speaker 1: Yes, or system overload. Yeah, And I do want us

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Speaker 1: to make a point that you're saying. Will come back

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Speaker 1: to that at another time, because even the matrilineality of

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Speaker 1: society was about the expansiveness of being. And again, if

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Speaker 1: we look at it evolutionarily, the petrilineal brain is a

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Speaker 1: very reductionist brain because if we look at the two species,

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Speaker 1: the male and female body, and how it is endowed.

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Speaker 1: The male body, the physique of it was about being

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Speaker 1: the physicality and being able to read the threat and

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Speaker 1: being able to react to the threat, minimize, mitigate, protect

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Speaker 1: right and be able to provide, you know, whereas the

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Speaker 1: matrilineal body is designed to handle vulnerability, to handle the

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Speaker 1: capacity of the female body to bear another human being

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Speaker 1: growing inside of it, not knowing what is going on,

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Speaker 1: when is it doing? What is that? And the other

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Speaker 1: when this incent is born, it doesn't talk, So the

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Speaker 1: female brain has to figure out what does it need?

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Speaker 1: What does it There's so much complexity in that, right,

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Speaker 1: And so we can see in these two you know,

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Speaker 1: forms of body of human bodies that were meant to

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Speaker 1: serve a complimentary and have a complemental relationship in the

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Speaker 1: advancement in the survival of the species. But what we

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Speaker 1: have seen is that the patrilineal brain is the brain

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Speaker 1: that lives on the illusion of certainty, like it needs

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Speaker 1: to reduce things. That's why, you know, we'll see women

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Speaker 1: will often say, you know, I'm not asking for a solution.

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Speaker 1: Men want to solve the problem because the brain wants to,

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Speaker 1: you know, minimize things so that there's action to take.

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Speaker 1: Whereas the female brain can sit with so many things

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Speaker 1: and that's why we do so many things multipas can

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Speaker 1: it can handle more complexity. And it is in that

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Speaker 1: that the patrilineal brain has overtaken and that's why societies

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Speaker 1: have shifted from matrilineal. To your point that you are making,

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Speaker 1: and it's a very beautiful point, and so I'm saying

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Speaker 1: it is actually an integral part of this discussion and

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Speaker 1: not one to be shelved. So yeah, that's the illusion

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Speaker 1: of certainty that we have moved and reduced the tabs

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Speaker 1: so that there is no ability, there's controllability, there's some

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Speaker 1: way in which we can manage what is happening in life.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, again it is about finding the sweet spot,

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Speaker 1: and we seem to rather tend to toggle in that

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Speaker 1: patrilineality of the brain. We tend to toggle between polarities

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Speaker 1: because then we swing from one end to the other

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Speaker 1: end of the pendulum. It's much more complex to sit

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Speaker 1: with the end rather than all of things.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So an interesting contribution from Nanny on what app says,

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Speaker 3: good morning girds. I think there is certainty, but not

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Speaker 3: necessarily permanent. We often forget that people and circumstances change,

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Speaker 3: which I think that's a fascinating texture. Right, So the

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Speaker 3: idea that you can be sure of things, but that

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Speaker 3: the thing can change.

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Speaker 2: So, for instance, you work a job.

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Speaker 3: You've worked at that job for five years, ten years,

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Speaker 3: twenty years, as many of us experienced in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: suddenly that job is gone. So you were certain, you

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Speaker 3: were absolutely certain, you absolutely had that job, and then

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Speaker 3: it all changed. And because that changed, other things changed

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Speaker 3: as well. Suddenly you were behind on your mortgage repayment,

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Speaker 3: or you were behind on school fees.

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Speaker 2: So things that were certain.

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Speaker 1: Suddenly are not necessarily permanent. That's just such. Yes, that's

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Speaker 1: such a This is a conversation have with people in

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Speaker 1: United I do corporate training sessions, and this conversation invariably

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Speaker 1: comes up. It happened just Thursday Friday as a running

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Speaker 1: a session with UNISA, and there's a whole conversation about

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Speaker 1: being permanent or having a contract position. And I ask

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Speaker 1: people which job is permanent? There's no such thing. And

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Speaker 1: it is again this illusion of certainty. There is no

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Speaker 1: such thing. And I often will say, just because you

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Speaker 1: were given a letter of appointment and it had the

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Speaker 1: words pe r, that is certain that those words were

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Speaker 1: there in the letter of appointment, But it does not

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Speaker 1: mean that the job itself is permanent, right.

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Speaker 3: And so then how does this also, I just manifest

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Speaker 3: in our fear of change. So our brain likes certain things.

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Speaker 3: Our brain is not designed to make us happy. It's

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Speaker 3: meant to keep us alive. And I remember a couple

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Speaker 3: of weeks ago you were saying the brain works with facts,

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Speaker 3: not concepts. And so sometimes it is a fact that

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Speaker 3: I'm in this marriage, and that is a comforting fact. However,

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Speaker 3: should that marriage fall apart for whatever reason, things changed,

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Speaker 3: Relationships change, circumstances change. People often struggle to then move.

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Speaker 3: There's a book called Who Move My Cheese? And it's

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Speaker 3: about these mice who figure who all respond differently to

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Speaker 3: cheese being moved. So your cheese has moved, and some

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Speaker 3: people struggle to move with the cheese because is it

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Speaker 3: our brains then that are holding onto well, this is true,

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Speaker 3: this was our truth, This was our north star. We

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Speaker 3: could rely on this, This was it was irrefutable, it

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Speaker 3: was undisputed. And now all of that is gone. And

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Speaker 3: so our brains struggle with that because also now they

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Speaker 3: have to deal with a new concept as opposed to

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Speaker 3: the fact of this thing, even.

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Speaker 1: The new concept being, even the concept of self. Who

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Speaker 1: am I? Now now that this thing is gone? Right?

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Speaker 1: And it doesn't help that. Of course, part of marriage

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Speaker 1: is those vowels that say until death to us? Part

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Speaker 1: what does that tell us? It tells us this is

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Speaker 1: now taking care of Tick. You're riding into the sunset

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Speaker 1: of life. This is how your life is gonna go.

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Speaker 1: And of course, and I've always asked this question. The

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Speaker 1: question we don't ask is the death of what The

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Speaker 1: assumption is the death of the two human beings, the

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Speaker 1: physical death of the two human beings. But as we know,

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Speaker 1: and we see this all the time, that death happens

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Speaker 1: long before the death in many instances, it happens long

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Speaker 1: before the death of the two people, because it is

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Speaker 1: the death of what brought us together. That is the

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Speaker 1: death right. But we assume and it gives us a

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Speaker 1: sense of certainty. So the need for certainty, it confers

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Speaker 1: no ability, right. It says, we know how we're gonna

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Speaker 1: plan this thing, so we've got a handle on it.

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Speaker 1: We know how to control, we can plan around it.

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Speaker 1: And that's why the default setting is to look for that.

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Speaker 1: It's because the basic brain is the reptilian brain that

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Speaker 1: needs to know. It needs concrete information it is and

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Speaker 1: it is whired in a certain way that it serves

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Speaker 1: the purpose for which it is designed, which is to

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Speaker 1: keep us alive. And so we need to know is

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Speaker 1: this car coming at me or not? And it needs

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Speaker 1: to be black or white, yes or no it's not.

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Speaker 1: We don't have the luxury of saying, well, i'll see,

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Speaker 1: maybe it will miss me a little, or you know.

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Speaker 1: We need to know for sure, and that is why

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Speaker 1: we talk about the knee jerk reaction. The reflexes instinct

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Speaker 1: tells us fight slight freeze phone quickly because your survival

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Speaker 1: depends on that. And when that is taken away, let's

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Speaker 1: go back to the interest. So that's the first brain

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Speaker 1: that gets laid in the human body. And then there's

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Speaker 1: what we get an upgrade of the mammalian brain. That's

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Speaker 1: superstructure that sits above. So we evolve, even just physiologically,

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Speaker 1: we evolve from the basic infrastructure into a more sophisticated infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: that infrastructure that has the prefrontal cortex that gives us

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Speaker 1: that ability to stand outside of ourselves and to be

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Speaker 1: able to reflect on who we are, to ask those complex,

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Speaker 1: open ended questions. Where the world can be abstract, we

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Speaker 1: can create, we can envision things that don't exist, which

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Speaker 1: has allowed human beings to be in the world that

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Speaker 1: we have created. I mean, we were talking just recently

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Speaker 1: about AI. What the hell is this thing that we

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Speaker 1: are inventing? And it is that brain. And so there's

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Speaker 1: really that complexity. It gives us complexity, and so it

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Speaker 1: is the dance between these two brains. And once we

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Speaker 1: we look from the mammalian brain perspective, it gives us complexity.

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Speaker 1: It confers a world that has mutually inclusive concepts and

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Speaker 1: things that coexist, which makes it more complicated and therefore

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Speaker 1: it burns more fuel. It takes a lot from us

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Speaker 1: to sit with and juggle all these dynamics all at

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Speaker 1: once and have to still survive while we are also

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Speaker 1: navigating this complexity. And so you can see the burden

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Speaker 1: that it places on the system. And that is why

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Speaker 1: the kind of the default bias is a reductionism. And

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Speaker 1: and and yet we also live in a world that

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Speaker 1: we have complexified, and so it kind of we have

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Speaker 1: to sit and and and sit with this this this

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Speaker 1: rub against these dynamics that are all happening ones because

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Speaker 1: guess what the conspiracy talked about, what is it to

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Speaker 1: be human? You have both these two brains sitting in

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Speaker 1: the same skull, all operating at the same time. So

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Speaker 1: which one is coming to handle which situation in any moment?

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Speaker 1: The default setting says, in that crucial moment, get certainty

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Speaker 1: about this. And getting certainty is about going into the

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Speaker 1: reptilian brain that wants to know is it black of white?

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Speaker 1: Is it me or you? Those yes, no, very concrete

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Speaker 1: level reasoning. And yet it may be the very downfall

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Speaker 1: of us in handling complexity because that brain does not

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Speaker 1: have the capacity operates on one g. It doesn't have

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Speaker 1: the capacity to handle complexity and we live in a

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Speaker 1: complex world.

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Speaker 3: And so then even as we seek out I guess

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Speaker 3: that kind of neat box, right, I'm looking for certainty.

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Speaker 3: It must be neat, it must be easily accessible. That

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Speaker 3: mentalized shouldn't use a lot of brain power. I don't

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Speaker 3: want lots of open tabs. Doesn't mean necessarily that what

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Speaker 3: we know, what we believe or know to be certain,

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Speaker 3: is the truth. An example, there are people who, in

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Speaker 3: their heart of hearts believe the earth is flat. That

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Speaker 3: is a certainty for them, It is a truth for them.

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Speaker 3: It helps them sleep at night that the earth is

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Speaker 3: a disc it is flat.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: And so just because the thing is a certainty and

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Speaker 3: your brain has said, okay, this is for us, this

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Speaker 3: is a certainty, this is a truth, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: it is true. And so you must also kind of

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Speaker 3: interrogate that as well. The things I believe to be certain,

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Speaker 3: the things I believe to be true about myself, about

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Speaker 3: other people, about the earth, right, are they.

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Speaker 1: My truth may not be sexually truth yeah, truthful?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And so even that is and for us.

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Speaker 1: To do that, it means we have to second guess ourselves.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you need to think about why do I believe

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Speaker 3: that to be true.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, which is as long as you know And

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Speaker 1: here's the big word, googs believe as long as you

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Speaker 1: know that it is your belief. But we very easily

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Speaker 1: turned belief into a fact. And here's another you know trick.

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Speaker 1: I often't say this in training. The fact is that

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Speaker 1: gooks told me that you said this, that and the other.

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Speaker 1: That is a fact, right, But what gooks told me

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Speaker 1: may not be a fact. And we often get those

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Speaker 1: of them.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, yes, yep, because.

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Speaker 1: That's my truth. May not be because even as.

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Speaker 3: We're listening, right, it is tempered by kind of what

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Speaker 3: we're feeling at the time.

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Speaker 2: Say you message me on what sepp.

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Speaker 3: You send me a message saying hey, but because you

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Speaker 3: didn't use a full stop, I suddenly saying, ah, it's

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Speaker 3: cause he upset with me. Cause he's upset with me.

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Speaker 3: Why is Cosy upset with me?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: It was that thing from two years ago. But that's

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Speaker 3: probably not happening. It's just because as I'm reading your message,

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Speaker 3: like all of my feelings, my biases, my experiences are

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Speaker 3: connecting the dots, yes, even if the dots aren't actually

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Speaker 3: they you just said hey.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because you know, we make it make sense. That's

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Speaker 1: the coherence, right, coherence based reasoning. We want things to cohere,

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Speaker 1: to belong together, to make sense for us. And that

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Speaker 1: is why the word remember it's to remember, which is

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Speaker 1: to put together what belongs together. So we will make

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Speaker 1: it make sense because otherwise what are we going to

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Speaker 1: do about it? Unknowability means there's uncertainty, and therefore we

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Speaker 1: creates anxiety in the system, and so what we want

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Speaker 1: is to reduce that so that there's homeostasis in the system.

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Speaker 1: And therefore we will kind of force squares into circles

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Speaker 1: because that gives coherence rather than you know, what's the

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Speaker 1: opposite of incoherence. There's another word. We'll get to that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So a message here from a d in the

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Speaker 3: East End. She says, I'm loving this conversation. Happier Sunday

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Speaker 3: Googs and doctor COSSI. I think for me it is

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Speaker 3: all thanks to my own experiences, which have taught me

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Speaker 3: to detach myself as far as possible from people and

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Speaker 3: from things to bring it into the picture. Back then,

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Speaker 3: I'd never thought when I got into my beautiful wedding

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Speaker 3: gown that I'd be divorced four years afterwards that when

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Speaker 3: I would go to such extra miles to push boundaries,

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Speaker 3: work extra hours, support even colleagues I did not have

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Speaker 3: to but wanted to, that some of those people would

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Speaker 3: contribute to me losing my job. That's someone I took

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Speaker 3: as my sister because we started on the same day

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Speaker 3: in a new role in a new environment in her

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Speaker 3: foreign town. That that person turned out to be my

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Speaker 3: enemy later. Perhaps there are other examples I could give,

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Speaker 3: but for me, I always say that these things have

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Speaker 3: been a big blessing on my front. I don't easily

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Speaker 3: shake panic or losing people or someone not showing me loyalty.

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Speaker 3: I in turn, have learned the art of not attaching

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Speaker 3: myself to people or a job, almost as if they

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Speaker 3: prepared me to face anything at any time. That's a

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Speaker 3: message from dmazmand Ooh.

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Speaker 1: D that is deep. That is deep, and that at

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Speaker 1: the heart of that is the principle of detached attachments.

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Speaker 2: That thing, hold it will happen to you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, hold it, hold it likely and no, it

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Speaker 1: is just one of the possible permeations of variables in life.

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Speaker 1: If it is this today, it doesn't mean it will

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Speaker 1: be that tomorrow. And this is what you know, marriage

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Speaker 1: seeks to take away, if we look at it socially

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Speaker 1: from human beings, a sense of eye belong to my,

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Speaker 1: that possessive pronoun of my says, this is how things

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Speaker 1: are going to be. And we have created a sense

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Speaker 1: of a narrative in society that says, this is the

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Speaker 1: conveyor belt, and this is how things go, this is

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Speaker 1: how this traffic moves. And you know, and when your

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Speaker 1: aunt in that stream, society kind of says, hey, what's

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Speaker 1: wrong with you? You know, just tow the line. This

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Speaker 1: is how we do things here. And if you don't,

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Speaker 1: you kind of choose to stand outside. You know, you

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Speaker 1: get the social frown. What's wrong with you? Why? How

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Speaker 1: come you don't have children? Why are you not married?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 1: There's always a thou shout in society and in a sense,

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Speaker 1: and this is why, controversially I say marriage has outlived

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Speaker 1: its usefulness. Marriage as a contract has outlived its usefulness.

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Speaker 1: And this is just my pedestrian spark at it and

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Speaker 1: kidd it. My argument is that marriage was the DNA

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Speaker 1: of the time because marriage said, if you see this

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Speaker 1: person and that person, they belong together. So if you

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Speaker 1: see a little one that comes out of this house.

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Speaker 1: They are the two people that created this little one.

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Speaker 1: And so what happens. This is how we're going to

401
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: order society. Let this one marry this one, and we

402
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: know where they are, we know what's going on, who

403
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: belongs where, who is under which roof, there's some sort

404
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: of order in society. Again, you see that illusion of certainty,

405
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: because we know we find out in human records so

406
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: so many times millennially, even in the Bible, that so

407
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: and so didn't quite belong to so and so. But

408
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: we wanted a frame that keeps us with some sort

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Speaker 1: of knowing coherence as opposed to the word I was

410
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: looking for the dissonance, right, and now like why do

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Speaker 1: you need that? There is DNA now where you can

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Speaker 1: establish who belongs, who's the gin pool of whom and

413
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 1: so on. We can clear that up. And hence I'm saying, so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so why do we need marriage except for me? If

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Speaker 1: we're talking about marriage, for example, if we are talking

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Speaker 1: about a marriage of minds, a coming together of minds,

417
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Speaker 1: a coherence of mind and spirit and all those sorts

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00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: of things. Again, coherence, which is a correlation, not a

419
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: causal relationship. That says because of this. The certainty is

420
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Speaker 1: that this is how things will become. It just says,

421
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: this is who we are today and this is what

422
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: we like. We enjoy this company, and we think that

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Speaker 1: we will want to spend more and more time together.

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Speaker 1: What that may become, we don't know. We will walk

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Speaker 1: that road. We build that road as we walk it,

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00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: and that it's a lot of uncertainty. It creates panic

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00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: for people, and people don't want that. People tell me

428
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: and so that I can know how this thing's gonna

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00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: play out.

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00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 3: Right, Hm, I feel like we've just started this conversation

431
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 3: we have.

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00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: I mean, gooks, have you seen this new show called

433
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: what a What of the Age Of? On Netflix? This

434
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: is these relationships where the new love is blind kind

435
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: of thing. What's it called Age of?

436
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: I've not seen it?

437
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: Oh you must? You must say the date like like yes,

438
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: like love is blind. They date, but they don't know

439
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: each other's ages, and then they like each other. Yes,

440
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: they choose they like each other, and then they go

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00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: into what they call a commitment room. And only in

442
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: the commitment room when they have agreed they want to

443
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: commit they then reveal their ages and find out one

444
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: is double. The Age of the other and what's going

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00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: to happen?

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00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 3: Now?

447
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: What does this all mean? You have to watch it?

448
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm honest, yep, I'm adding it to my list.

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00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 3: Always a great place chatting to you. Thank you so

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00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 3: much for your time.

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00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: Fun, fun, fun, Thank you so much.

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00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 3: That's our residents psychologist, doctor corci Gian. If there's a

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00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 3: topic you'd like for us to discuss, send it through

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00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 3: to us on googs at seven o two dotio dot today.

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00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 3: That's g ugs at seven o two dot TiO dot today.

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00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 3: Coming up, we speak to Spontane Shabalala. He's the leader

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00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 3: of Lady Smith Black Mambasa. Also speak to Mussocosa. He

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00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: is a cultural thinker and a musician. He is along

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00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: with doctor Dudouzo Makartini. They are featured on the new

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00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 3: Ladysmith Black Mambasa album titled One Voice, One World. So

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00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 3: we'll speak to them about the album and also play

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00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 3: the lead single from that album as well. But first,

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00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 3: it's twenty four minutes before ten o'clock. Let's checking with

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00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 3: your latest out Witness News Sport with title Malodo