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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk little. The Money Show with Stephen Crutis is

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Speaker 2: brought to you by ABS of Corporate and Investment Banking,

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Speaker 2: a Pan African bank that's invested in your story because

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Speaker 2: your story matters. Good evening, I'm Stephen Crutis. Seven minutes

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Speaker 2: after six. I'm still we'll try to just understand what

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Speaker 2: is going on with Donald Trump and Greenland? Can someone

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Speaker 2: please just make it make sense? I mean okay. He

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Speaker 2: says that you know, as the US president, they must

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Speaker 2: have Greenland. It will keep the US more secure. No

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Speaker 2: other US present has said anything like it. He then says, well,

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Speaker 2: if you don't like it, I'm gonna put tariffs against you. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's gonna end. Well, you've got the Canadian Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: in Beijing last week. By the way, if you learn

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Speaker 2: nothing at all from how tariffs can back fire, and

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Speaker 2: mister Trump will then take a look at that. All

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Speaker 2: that's happening is that your longest land neighbor is now

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Speaker 2: suddenly closing up to Beijing because you've given them no choice.

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Speaker 2: Then you've got this astonishing letter to the Norwegian Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister which He basically says, well, you didn't give me

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Speaker 2: the Nobel Peace Prize, and therefore I want Greenland. I

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Speaker 2: don't think I need to pursue peace anymore. I'm just

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Speaker 2: gonna do whatever the US wants. I mean, it is

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Speaker 2: I just I don't even know where to begin. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there was a time, I think when we used to

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Speaker 2: look in society and look at people and say to

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Speaker 2: our children, be like them. Well, geesh, wow, boy, are

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Speaker 2: those days and politics long gone. It's just bizarre. I

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Speaker 2: don't even know how to kind of really begin anyway.

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Speaker 2: You'll speak to people who do know where to begin,

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Speaker 2: Thank goodness. We'll speak to Donald MacKaye, the Trade advisor

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Speaker 2: at EXA International, the director at x A Trade International. Gosh,

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Speaker 2: ht me stop it again, shall We will speak to

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Speaker 2: Donald mckuye, the director at XA International Trade Advisors. You

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Speaker 2: see how a battle to make things make sense. Also,

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Speaker 2: Professor David Monyai at the University of Johannesburg just to

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Speaker 2: can understanding now the rest of the world sees Trump

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Speaker 2: as well, because it just doesn't really make sense. Also,

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Speaker 2: ahead of all of this, we've got the World Economic

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Speaker 2: Forum in Davos, and Trump is due bizarrely to speak

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Speaker 2: there tomorrow. It's kind of trump face to face with

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Speaker 2: the forces of globalization. If you will, John Stopford's head

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Speaker 2: of Multi sid Income at ninety one, he'll give you

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Speaker 2: a view around that. We saw last week the closure

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Speaker 2: of the British American Tobacco Tobacco, their tobacco factory in Heidelberg,

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Speaker 2: the announcement there and the sum of US saw the

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Speaker 2: CEO of Business Leadership South Africa is talking about the

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Speaker 2: listed economy. Well here here herview, they've joined a body

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Speaker 2: that works against that, but also what she thinks government

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Speaker 2: should do. And then the Indian Central Bank their reserve

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Speaker 2: bank governor saying today and this is a report from

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Speaker 2: Reuter's suggesting that the countries that belong to bricks should

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Speaker 2: include us, should link their digital currencies. In other words,

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Speaker 2: you'll be able to trade with each other very easily.

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Speaker 2: Now you might ask yourself if he gets cut out

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Speaker 2: of that. I'll give you hint. The dollar, what used

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Speaker 2: to be the almighty dollar, gets cut out of that.

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Speaker 2: We'll speak to Stephen Waki Sidley about that. I think

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Speaker 2: that's going to be a very interesting conversation. Don't forget

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Speaker 2: from seven point thirty the business of retail, but also

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Speaker 2: how you go from being a top sportsperson to retail.

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Speaker 2: Amber Penny as the co founder and chief retail officer

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Speaker 2: at Farah, but before that she actually played water polo

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Speaker 2: for South Africa. I find that a really interesting story,

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Speaker 2: so looking forward to that conversation as well. Could to

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Speaker 2: hear from you tonight on A double one double A

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Speaker 2: three oh seven oh two two one four four six

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Speaker 2: O five six seven and of course seven two seven

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Speaker 2: oh two seven one seven oh two The.

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Speaker 1: Lanly Show with Stephen Kruders Live on ninety two point

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Speaker 1: seven and one O six FM, streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 1: Media Plus.

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Speaker 3: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: Figures out today showing the amount of solar generation capacity

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Speaker 2: in Africa is about one and a half times bigger

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Speaker 2: than we thought it was, in fact two and a

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Speaker 2: half times bigger than we thought it was, and I

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Speaker 2: wonder if what the situation is here. So here, I

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Speaker 2: suppose is my question. Despite the fact we don't have

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Speaker 2: load shedding, would you still get solar if you could?

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Speaker 2: And what's your experience of using it being whether you

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Speaker 2: run it for your corporate or whether you actually have

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Speaker 2: it at home. What's your experience been? And I know

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Speaker 2: in Joe Big City power now once everyone with solo

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Speaker 2: to go off prepaid and go postpaid. Now, I have

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Speaker 2: to tell you that I have had previous experience with

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Speaker 2: the Joe Big billing system. So this scares me and

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Speaker 2: it might well scare you. You your views on that too,

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Speaker 2: Oh seven two seven oh two one seven o two.

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Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Howitz on seven O two

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Speaker 3: seven o two.

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Speaker 2: Twelve after six were European leaders scrambling now to reach

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Speaker 2: a consolidated position to respond to the latest tariffs from

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Speaker 2: the US President Donald Trump. He says you'll impose or

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Speaker 2: has imposed, tariffs on eight countries that oppose his taking

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Speaker 2: over Greenland from Denmark. The also considering what's called an

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Speaker 2: anti coercion instrument. It would limit the trade the US

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Speaker 2: can do with the EU. In response, we start a

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Speaker 2: coverage of it all with Donald mackay, the director at

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Speaker 2: XA International Trade Advisors, Donald good Evening. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think at the end of last year we thought maybe

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Speaker 2: the worst of the trade wars with the Trump administration

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Speaker 2: were over, and suddenly they're front and center again.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it would appear soly not even a month into

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Speaker 4: the new year.

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Speaker 2: Stephen, One of the strange things about this is that

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Speaker 2: these tariffs have nothing to do with trade. So I

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Speaker 2: can understand if you think you have a trade problem,

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Speaker 2: so for example, the US in China, maybe maybe a

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Speaker 2: tariff can help you rectify that. This is about something

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Speaker 2: completely different. This is about using tariffs to punish, to

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Speaker 2: punish countries for their geopolitical position.

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Speaker 4: Yep. Trump seems to have only one tool in the toolbox,

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Speaker 4: and that is a hammer called tariffs. So that seems

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Speaker 4: to be his solution to absolutely everything. It's astonishing.

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Speaker 2: Have we ever seen anything like this in the modern

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Speaker 2: era before, a country using its trade position to impose

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Speaker 2: tariffs against other countries not because of a trade issue,

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Speaker 2: but because of their actual sort of viewpoint or their

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Speaker 2: stance and other issues.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so we have. They tend to come out of

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Speaker 4: authoritarian that perhaps the US is now becoming one of those.

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Speaker 4: But think of a couple of years ago when Australia said, look,

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Speaker 4: maybe we need to look at the source of the

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Speaker 4: COVID virus who mcro coll China took action against Australia

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Speaker 4: because they didn't like what Australia had said. So this

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Speaker 4: does happen, it's unusual. Of course, you have to be

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Speaker 4: a truly dominant country in your region to pull it off.

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Speaker 4: It does happen, but it's incredibly unusual for it to

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Speaker 4: come out of a Western democratic state.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't work. I mean, sure, it's pressure, but then you're

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Speaker 2: also forcing, and in this case, democracies democratically elected leaders

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Speaker 2: to back down in front of their constituencies, and I

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Speaker 2: imagine they wouldn't want to do that.

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Speaker 4: No, the only reason countries like China get away with

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Speaker 4: that is because of the incredibly oppressive environment Locally. It's

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Speaker 4: considerably harder to do in a country like the US.

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Speaker 4: So no, I think it'd be very hard to pull

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Speaker 4: off people. Also, not forget that this is the US

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Speaker 4: consumer that is put in the bill. So really, what

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Speaker 4: President Trump is saying is, if you don't let me

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Speaker 4: buy greenland, take greenland, et cetera, I'm going to raise

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Speaker 4: the taxes on my own domestic consumers.

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Speaker 5: At some point.

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Speaker 4: That has to surely have a high political cost.

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Speaker 2: The EU is looking at this anti coercion instrument before,

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Speaker 2: how does that work? Would it actually have an impact

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Speaker 2: on the US?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I could?

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Speaker 4: I mean, we you know, the EU is an incredibly

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Speaker 4: slow moving animal, but when they do move, they are

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Speaker 4: rather formidable. So absolutely it could work. And I think

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Speaker 4: we're in a position where, you know, I think the

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Speaker 4: EU has behaved honorably up until now, but I don't

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Speaker 4: think President Trump will back down until he feels pain.

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Speaker 4: We saw the same thing with China, and when China

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Speaker 4: retaliated on the rare Earth, he quickly shifted his position.

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Speaker 4: He seems to only respond to a show of strength,

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Speaker 4: and I suspect that's exactly what the EU is going

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Speaker 4: to do.

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Speaker 2: Donald Mackay, thank you, Director at XA International Trade Advisors,

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Speaker 2: do appreciate the time. Meanwhile, Trump writing to the Norwegian

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister Jean A. Scar Stoor, saying that's because he

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Speaker 2: did not receive the Nobel Peace Prize, he no longer

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Speaker 2: felt any obligation to pursue peace. Instead, he'll do what

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Speaker 2: is good and proper for the US. He goes on

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Speaker 2: to say, the world is not secure until the US

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Speaker 2: is complete and total control of Greenland. Professor David Manya

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Speaker 2: is the director of the Center of Africa China Studies

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Speaker 2: at the University of Johannesburg. David Good evening, it's hard

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Speaker 2: to understand what on earth Trump is going on about.

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Speaker 6: The many is really really out of order. But I

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Speaker 6: think a better way of looking at it is just

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Speaker 6: to put a much more a bigger context that the

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Speaker 6: world we live in is changing. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 6: it has already changed. It is no longer the personating

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Speaker 6: forty five world order where we talk about democracy, human

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Speaker 6: rights and all nice cities. To use Miller's it is,

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Speaker 6: we're going back to your naked imperialism where people understand

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Speaker 6: nothing else other than power. So the use of force

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Speaker 6: out it to the previous speaker, that is not only

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Speaker 6: tariffs that he's using in his toolbox, is the military's.

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Speaker 6: He's using the military we've seen with Venezuela. I think

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Speaker 6: we're going to see this show playing in so many

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Speaker 6: areas currently is doing with Iran, and I think so

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Speaker 6: many countries will face the same. I think what makes

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Speaker 6: it unique is that it's no longer only doing it

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Speaker 6: to countries traditionally seen as openings of Nared States and

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Speaker 6: Western world. He's doing to the very same family that

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Speaker 6: all the years and decades have been working with the

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Speaker 6: nared Sids in its walls in Iraq, in Libya, Afghanistan,

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Speaker 6: and therefore I think we see that shift and fragmentation

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Speaker 6: of the world that we.

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Speaker 2: Know it's one thing for him to be doing this

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Speaker 2: and pursuing that sort of imperial approach, however you want

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Speaker 2: to call it. I completely agree with what you say

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Speaker 2: about the use of power, but pursue so pursuing Venezuela

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Speaker 2: or Iran long term enemies of the US, Okay, that

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Speaker 2: would be rational, I suppose, difficult, complicated, but rational. But

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Speaker 2: Greenland doesn't seem to me to be rational. So it's

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Speaker 2: one thing to try and understand what someone is trying

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Speaker 2: to do through the use of share military or economic power.

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Speaker 2: But is where we are now the pursuit of Greenland rational.

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Speaker 6: If we continue to look at the world from the

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Speaker 6: lenses of impersonating for referve world, it's irrational. But the

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Speaker 6: world that is living in and what is pursuing uppermost

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Speaker 6: force stand alone, it is rational in his world because

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Speaker 6: there is nothing different between Venezuela and Greenland. Venezuela had

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Speaker 6: nothing to do with Maduro. It has to do with

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Speaker 6: all the price of will on the world stage and

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Speaker 6: to maney China in Russia. So it's if he can

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Speaker 6: reasset a declining USA Germany through the old tools in

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Speaker 6: your oil, the use of dollar, the one that you've

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Speaker 6: just mentioned, and the digital curage, a number of issues

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Speaker 6: where US power is in decline and he's trying to

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Speaker 6: reasset using force. And therefore Green stands on that way.

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Speaker 6: In minerals, it is on the ship lanes. It strategically

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Speaker 6: should there be a warm for missiles and to project

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Speaker 6: and expand US territory in a way. And therefore his

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Speaker 6: unapologetic and the beauty of the man is that we

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Speaker 6: know he'll do what he says, and he's much better

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Speaker 6: in my view than by then.

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Speaker 2: In the meantime we see a reaction in all sorts

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Speaker 2: of ways. The Canadian Prime Minister Mark Karney, I mean,

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Speaker 2: he was in Beijing last week and he's not going

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Speaker 2: to be the last leader. And that is that leads

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Speaker 2: a country that's been trading heavily with the US going

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Speaker 2: to Beijing, and that makes the US weaker.

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Speaker 6: The changes that are taking place therefore is no longer ideological.

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Speaker 6: I think what we were entering that world where it's

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Speaker 6: much more pragmatic, where they're no longer so called Western world.

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Speaker 6: I think in my own prediction as we am in bricks,

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Speaker 6: South Africa in bricks, and many other African countries future bricks,

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Speaker 6: who will be now concerned with some so called Western

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Speaker 6: world joining bricks and therefore that fragmentation you see it

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Speaker 6: within the global sort as well as in the global North,

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Speaker 6: where countries are now really following their co interests, regardless

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Speaker 6: of all the normative issues of human rights and democracy.

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Speaker 6: And I think what Canadians are doing and it's a

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Speaker 6: classical way that we can do business with China if

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Speaker 6: nisis does not and is a way of pushing in

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Speaker 6: that is sits in so many areas.

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Speaker 2: Professor David Muni, I think you directed the Center for

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Speaker 2: Africa China Studies at the University of Johannesburg. You with

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Speaker 2: the Money Show twenty one minutes after six while while

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Speaker 2: all of this is happening around Greenland, around NATO, around

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Speaker 2: the US's relationship with the EU. At the same time, tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: Trump himself is due to speak at the World Economic

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Speaker 2: for a meeting in DeVos. John Stopford is the head

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Speaker 2: of Multi Asset Income at ninety one John good Evening.

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Speaker 2: It seems to me and certainly my experience of DeVos

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Speaker 2: limited as it is, is that DeVos and the World

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Speaker 2: Economic Forum are sort of symbols of people who want

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Speaker 2: greater globalization. Trump completely wants the opposite. Tomorrow should be

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Speaker 2: quite interesting.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's correct.

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Speaker 7: So it certainly represents to some extent the old world order,

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Speaker 7: and I think people had assumed that it was a

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Speaker 7: thing of the past essentially, but.

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Speaker 5: It has two useful.

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Speaker 7: Things that are maybe helpful to Trump and helpful to

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Speaker 7: other people as well. It's a gathering of the great

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Speaker 7: and the good, so heads of state, ministers, CEOs, NGO

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Speaker 7: leaders and so on. And as well as having formal sessions,

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Speaker 7: there's lots of opportunities for bilateral meetings, for informal dialogue, etc.

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Speaker 7: And I think that serves a function or a purpose.

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Speaker 7: But also it was used last year by Trump as

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Speaker 7: essentially the launchpad for a lot of the things that

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Speaker 7: he's done since. So he introduced we talked about Canada

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Speaker 7: and Greenland potentially being part of the US's ambition to

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Speaker 7: take over. He talked about basically the world needing to

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Speaker 7: move manufacturing to the US and the introduction of tariffs.

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Speaker 7: So it's an opportunity for him to grandstand to basically

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Speaker 7: rub the nose, rub the noses of other countries, you know,

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Speaker 7: into the dirt perhaps, And I think it's also an

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Speaker 7: opportunity for him to play to a domestic audience. So

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Speaker 7: it's not what it was, but it's pretty important because

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Speaker 7: it's an opportunity for us to hear what Trump has

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Speaker 7: got planned for us all and to hear what he's thinking.

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Speaker 2: Is it also a useful opportunity for the great and

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Speaker 2: the good who opposed Trump to get together to sort

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Speaker 2: of perhaps coordinate that as well.

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Speaker 5: Possibly.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I think there's an opportunity for lots of

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Speaker 7: conversations to happen, and there are often conversations between people

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Speaker 7: who don't necessarily meet regularly, so certainly business and government

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Speaker 7: across the world, you know, but also individual leaders and

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Speaker 7: often leaders who aren't naturally aligned, so you can have

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Speaker 7: a lot of dialogue, a lot of conversations. I doubt

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Speaker 7: it's unfortunately or maybe fortunately, depending on your point of view,

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Speaker 7: the world has been very ineffective at grouping together or

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Speaker 7: coming together to oppose the kinds of policies that Trump

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Speaker 7: has implemented that have impacted the rest of the world.

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Speaker 7: Everyone has sort of essentially dealt with him on a

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Speaker 7: bilateral basis, and I'm not sure that necessarily changes, but

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Speaker 7: there are opportunities to compare notes, to discuss things, and

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Speaker 7: not least for some people to actually talk face to

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Speaker 7: face with Trump and his entourage, so people like Scott

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Speaker 7: Bess and the Treasury Secretary and so on who will

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Speaker 7: also be there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there have been times when it seems to

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Speaker 2: me that the World Economic Forum meeting and DeVos has

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Speaker 2: been critically important, then maybe wasn't quite so important. I

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Speaker 2: think it's been a tough sort of few years in

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Speaker 2: a way. Now I imagine the entire story of the World

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Speaker 2: Economic Forum this week is probably going to be about Trump,

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Speaker 2: no matter what Klaus Schwab and all of the other

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Speaker 2: people at the World Economic Forum actually want the story

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Speaker 2: to be.

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Speaker 7: I think that's largely true, certainly in terms of I

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Speaker 7: think that the press, the column inches in newspapers or

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Speaker 7: online or whatever, it will be. I think Trump will dominate,

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Speaker 7: and I think that's what he wants to do. I

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Speaker 7: think he wants to, you know, tell the world what

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Speaker 7: they should do and how how it's going to benefit

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Speaker 7: America and so on. I mean, there are going to

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Speaker 7: be interesting meetings going on around that. So as we say,

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Speaker 7: as I said, there will be you know, opportunities for

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Speaker 7: other world leaders to meet and potentially to interact with Trump.

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Speaker 7: But also you know, you're going to have the heads

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Speaker 7: of you know, most of the big AI companies there.

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Speaker 7: You know, that's obviously a pretty big theme, lots of

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Speaker 7: you know, the sort of that there's still the group

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Speaker 7: around the world trying to deal with climate change, you know,

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Speaker 7: a lot then will be represented and so on. So

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Speaker 7: it's an opportunity to compare notes, to try and influence,

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Speaker 7: to agree things informally and hopefully build stronger relationships globally.

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Speaker 7: But as you say, it's challenged in a world where

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Speaker 7: we have this dominant personality who's doing things that are

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Speaker 7: largely in the interests of America, unless in the interests

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Speaker 7: of everyone else.

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Speaker 2: John Sofford, thank you so much. Of Multi Asset Income.

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Speaker 2: At A ninety one twenty seven minutes now after six

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Speaker 2: the Money Show, Meryl picks, a portfolio manager at the

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Speaker 2: old mutual investment Group, Meryl good evening, Well, let's pick

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Speaker 2: that conversation up at Greenland Trump all of that. I

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Speaker 2: never thought i'd use the phrase that Greenland is pushing

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Speaker 2: precious metals stronger. But this is where we are right now.

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Speaker 8: Good evening, Good even to your listeners, and welcome to

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Speaker 8: the other side of the looking gloss has already been.

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Speaker 8: It feels like a few years has alrealy happened in

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Speaker 8: the past a few weeks. And I think Greenland is interesting.

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Speaker 8: It happens to start with a G, and we can

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Speaker 8: talk about two g's geography and geology, the two things

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Speaker 8: that I think trumpsy is in Greenland.

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Speaker 9: People have been talking.

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Speaker 8: About its resource environments rare earth, iron, potential, natural gas

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Speaker 8: and oil reserves, but then geography is the other bit.

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Speaker 8: As someone else mentioned, it is on the flight path

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Speaker 8: for potential nuclear missile attacks from Russia, apparently on the

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Speaker 8: shortest flight path. And in eighteen sixty seven under Andrew

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Speaker 8: Johnson and in nineteen forty nine under Truman, America has

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Speaker 8: tried to do this before. So we are as in

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Speaker 8: by Greenland or strikes some kind of a deal with Greenland.

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Speaker 8: You know, back in the eighteen hundreds they bought Alaska

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Speaker 8: from Russia. So it's such an interesting time where just

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Speaker 8: because something is new to memory, it doesn't mean it's

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Speaker 8: you to.

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Speaker 10: History and we have to.

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Speaker 8: He is going back to some interesting playbooks, you know,

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Speaker 8: even the tariffs. He had to wind back about a

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Speaker 8: century to see when last have these types of tactics

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Speaker 8: been employed. He's referencing, you know, the Monroe era. So

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Speaker 8: these things are not new. There's just new to our era,

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Speaker 8: to our recent memory. But certainly structuring things have changed,

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Speaker 8: and that does have impact on two different jeeps. Globalization

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Speaker 8: that you've talked about before and gold. I think so

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Speaker 8: the so far yes today is actually outstripping goal's performance,

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Speaker 8: but the precious metals complex in totality is reacting to, yeah,

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Speaker 8: the safe haven demand. And also you mentioned bitcoin. There

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Speaker 8: was a news flat there about China agreeing to let

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Speaker 8: Zambia settle trades in Remini.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 8: So it's it's all part of the broader theme of

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Speaker 8: fracturing into blocks, into spheres of influence, and it is

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Speaker 8: going to have an impact on the long term integrity

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Speaker 8: of the dollar in in our view, imperialism is not cheap.

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Speaker 8: If that's where we're going back. It's got physical implications.

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Speaker 8: If if if the EU wants to step in and

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Speaker 8: you know, defend and show some sort of show of force,

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Speaker 8: that's not cheap either, and all of these things detract

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Speaker 8: from productive investment and economies consumption, you know, infrastructure, so

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Speaker 8: there will be winners and los losers there, and then

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Speaker 8: move away from globalization will be inflationary, which again reinforces

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Speaker 8: the gold piece and the fact that we're in an

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Speaker 8: era where resource imperial imperialistic tendencies towards countries that have resources.

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Speaker 8: We actually see that as quite a bullish signal for

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Speaker 8: commodities in general. So if you are looking for confirmation

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Speaker 8: that there's a long term, you know, structural bullish story

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Speaker 8: to look for commodities is probably it.

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Speaker 2: Sure imperialism is not cheap. There is so much to

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Speaker 2: say about such an interesting statement, Meryll Peck, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much. Really do appreciate that, really puts it all

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Speaker 2: in context so nicely for US portfolio manager, the old

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Speaker 2: Mutual Investment Group six thirty the time.

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Speaker 3: WhatsApps Stephen on seven two seven two one seven oh two.

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Speaker 2: Well, WhatsApp's coming through, voice notes coming through as well.

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Speaker 2: Pulle is saying the lone crusade of Donald Trump as consequences,

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Speaker 2: the world is changing, its unavoidable. So is geopolitics as

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Speaker 2: well as narratives kidnapping is sitting present of another country

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Speaker 2: is absurd and neither annexing an independent country or solution.

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Speaker 2: Africa is beginning to claim ownership of their near, their

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Speaker 2: rare earth minerals. Okay there four, says Stephen. I asked

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Speaker 2: about solely your experience of solar, whether you've done it,

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Speaker 2: are you still wanting to do it? Leir Force design

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Speaker 2: stat cellar at home in September twenty five, that was

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Speaker 2: the last sum I bought electricity. I purchased two two

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Speaker 2: thousand rounds worth. That gave me five hundred and four kilo.

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Speaker 2: What hours I still have one hundred and fifty kilo?

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Speaker 2: What hours? I run a geezer and a pool every day.

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Speaker 2: Voice notes too on the situation around Greenland tonight.

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Speaker 11: Didn't I find it very ironic that the EU was

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Speaker 11: very quick to act on an the attempt to take Greenland,

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Speaker 11: but they were very quiet when when Venezuela was invaded.

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Speaker 11: They didn't condemn a Trump. Now, the thing is that

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Speaker 11: you let him get away with one thing, then he

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Speaker 11: will think that he can do it again somewhere else.

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Speaker 11: So the EU must actually, you know, stand up for

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Speaker 11: all countries, not just for the countries in their own region.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, hild From. It's a solid point, Henry, I

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Speaker 2: mean difficult to argue with and yar, some EU countries

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Speaker 2: were a little bit kind of complicated around Venezuela. Let

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Speaker 2: me say that so I hear you a very interesting

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Speaker 2: point your views seven two seven oh two one seven

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Speaker 2: oh two The Lonely Show.

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Speaker 1: With Stephen Kruders live on ninety two point seven and

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Speaker 1: one six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 3: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of card it to seven the time All

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Speaker 2: Business Leadership Essa saying today it's joined the Illicit Economy

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Speaker 2: Task Force, which was created by the Consumer Goods Council

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Speaker 2: after last week's decision by British American Tobacco to close

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Speaker 2: down its only cigarette factory in Heidelberg, BAD saying it

436
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: can no longer compete with the elicit tobacco industry, which

437
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: now counts for three quarters of all cigarettes sold in

438
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: South Africa. Buss Zoom of Warsaw is the CEO at

439
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 2: Business Leadership ASA. Bussusiera, good evening, Thanks for your time.

440
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: This crisis around tobacco, I suppose has been a long time.

441
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 2: I'm coming there's another crisis liming with doc. Why do

442
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: you think the olicted economy is growing so quickly?

443
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think it's as a director's alt giving of

444
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 12: an epic failure by government, because it's not like they

445
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 12: don't know what is happening.

446
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 2: You know.

447
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 12: This is a classical textbookcase of a car heading towards

448
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 12: a crash in slow motion. Warning lights were flashing for years,

449
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 12: with both business and the company itself repeated lier raising alarms,

450
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 12: yet the signals fell on fears. I myself at Keist,

451
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 12: for the past eight years, have been involved alongside PAT

452
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 12: and the industry, you know, in engagements with government, with sas,

453
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 12: with National Treasury, as recenter of November twenty twenty five

454
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 12: with the Minister Tao at a meeting that was requested

455
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 12: by myself as BLSA, where I was joined by the

456
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 12: industry leaders including the Group C of PAT, where they

457
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 12: were actually saying that if there's going to be no

458
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 12: interventions there unfortunately going to have to shut down the

459
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 12: black you know, and nothing has been done you know

460
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 12: by any of government over the years, and now the

461
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 12: economy is paying with almost thirty five thousand jobs.

462
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 4: So it's very unfortunate. Steven.

463
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 12: But it's also a traffical example of government talking left

464
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 12: and walking right. If we are serious about the industrialization

465
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 12: and gender, who are serious about driving expert left growth.

466
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 12: If we are serious about the localization and gender, which

467
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 12: are all corner stones by the way of our growing economy,

468
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 12: we need to start by protecting the manufacturing sector, as

469
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 12: you're rightfully saying. You know, it's not just the tobacco industry.

470
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 12: You have the auto industry also, you know, raising the

471
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 12: same concerns the seven OEMs in this country are saying

472
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 12: to government, we are facing an existential crisis if you're

473
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 12: not going to deal with the dumping you know of

474
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 12: cars from China, India and Thailand. And government has done

475
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 12: absolutely nothing. They've written to the president, They've britten to

476
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 12: the detay. See, I'm now trying to intervene us being

477
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 12: as say to say, we need to wake up and

478
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 12: pay attention to what is actually being done. Stevin. We

479
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 12: are sitting here with the homegrown problem. Government has allowed

480
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 12: they listed you know, market to grow to the extent

481
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 12: that it has actually grown to seventy five percent of

482
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,719
Speaker 12: the market is listed. Thirty billion rands in indirect taxes

483
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 12: every year is what they listened to trade is actually

484
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 12: crossing the country about seventy two billion rans. You know,

485
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 12: in potential to relative taxes is what is actually being

486
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 12: evaded due to the elicit cigarette. We know all of this,

487
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 12: and we have done nothing about it. In what world

488
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 12: is this normalized? How does this make any sense?

489
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: Stivin So, I mean, particularly with alcohol and tobacco, there's

490
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: a big incentive for government to tax them and to

491
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: tax them heavily, and there's actually public pressure to tax them.

492
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: Have they simply gone too far with taxes on those

493
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: two items?

494
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 12: You know, if thore was even if ninety percent, you know,

495
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 12: even if fifty percent or seventy percent, you know, the

496
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 12: numbers were sitched, about twenty percent of the market being lifted.

497
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 12: It's therefore, you know, makes sense, you know, for actually

498
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 12: a government to actually continue increasing taxis. But if you're

499
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 12: going to sit in a company, you know, where onlyterly

500
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 12: five percent of your plant is actually operating, there's no

501
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 12: business case for you to continue operating, because how do

502
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 12: you then continuously justify carrying all of these running costs,

503
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 12: most of which are fixed. It's just commercially unfeasible. So

504
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 12: if you were to actually protect these industries deal with

505
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 12: the illicit market. Then you can try these excise duties

506
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 12: until you blew in the face because you've got a

507
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 12: flourishing legal market. But it doesn't make sense that you're

508
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 12: going to actually continue, you know, with these heavy excise

509
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 12: duties on cigarettes and tobacco, and yet on the other hand,

510
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 12: you're not protecting them, you're allowing the illicit market to

511
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 12: actually flourish. So I really think that it is not

512
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 12: just a function of excise duties. The industry has been

513
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 12: paying those for years, but I think now it's a

514
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 12: double wayning of the fact that the text is a

515
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 12: and yet you know they're actually not being assisted in

516
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 12: terms of dealing with the illicit market. You know, it's

517
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 12: very interesting sting because SARS will tell you that a

518
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 12: whole lot of these companies you know that are responsible

519
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 12: for manufacturing these ilicit brands are actually SEARCH registered companies,

520
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 12: I mean surces on record. They're saying, they're confirmed itself

521
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 12: that the vast majority of illicit cigare rites found in

522
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 12: South Africa are brands belonging to local manufacturing companies registered

523
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 12: with SARS. So how we know who these people are?

524
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 12: Why are we not closing down on it. It's interesting

525
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 12: for you you listen to the Magener Commission, Lieutenant General

526
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 12: Dunsanukumalo says, in our analysis and assessment, it became clear

527
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 12: that almost the entire subs infrastructure and how thing was working.

528
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 4: For the katail.

529
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 12: Some of that kattel, I'm sure is this illicit trade

530
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 12: katail that government is just choosing to do nothing about

531
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 12: precisely because they are directly benefiting from the mess you

532
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 12: know that is happening in as vis this is consented.

533
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean it seems to me, you know, and

534
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: everyone's been talking about all the good news we've seen

535
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: over the last sort of five months or so, that

536
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 2: crime has been for a very long time. The big

537
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: issue facing our society, from what you said was to say,

538
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 2: where you're not expecting anything to change.

539
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 12: You know, I'm really hoping, and I'm really hoping, and

540
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 12: I think this is what I've actually articulated going into

541
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 12: twenty twenty six that the three big things that we'd

542
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 12: like to see the business community in this year is

543
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 12: obviously the advancement of the transport logistics. You know are

544
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 12: WAG reforms that are being done. But the other one

545
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 12: is the Majnger Commissions. Given that is actually going to

546
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 12: be coming out with that report soon, Let's see what

547
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 12: recommendations are actually going to be implemented. Let's see if

548
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 12: we can use this commission report the same way we

549
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 12: use the Helfer report, you know that led to changes

550
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 12: in fast the same way we used I think it's

551
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 12: for the Party report that led to the changes in

552
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 12: the PAC. Can we not use this report as a

553
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 12: catalyst to finally make changes in our criminal justice system?

554
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 12: Because all the elements of the criminal justice system from

555
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 12: what is coming out of the Mahlanga Commission, I trually

556
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 12: somehow compromise. So are we going to spend all of

557
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 12: this mondy and all of this time having this conversation

558
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 12: and nothing is going to come of it. It doesn't

559
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 12: make sense. So let's hopefully we are banking on rite

560
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 12: as the business community were watching this clodly and I

561
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 12: think we're ready to actually take government on in terms

562
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 12: of ensurance that something comes out of this report and

563
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 12: therefore the reforms to the entire criminal justice system was.

564
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: A sum of Also, thank you so much for your

565
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 2: business leadership in South Africa.

566
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 13: The Money Show with Stephen Cuetters is brought to you

567
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,239
Speaker 13: by ABS as cib a Pan African bank invested in

568
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 13: your story and the potential it can unlock because.

569
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 5: Your story matters.

570
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: As as a restered fsp SEX managed to seven other

571
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: report from Roytis today saying the Reserve Bank Committee is

572
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: proposing that bricks countries link their official digital currencies and

573
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: that that would help cross border and tourism payments. It

574
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: would also cut out the dollar than Wiki. Sidley is

575
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 2: the partner at Bridge Capital and Professor of Practice at

576
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: the Jannesburg Business School at the University of Johannesburg. Stephen

577
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: Good evening, How would a link like this of digital

578
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: currencies from different countries actually work?

579
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 14: Yeah, Hi, Stephen. There's quite a lot of much about

580
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 14: nothing in this announcement. I think that some analysts reacted

581
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 14: very sensationally to the announcement thinking that there was a

582
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 14: massive change and it would caused the dollarization. And it

583
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 14: was not a massive change. And neither with the causey dollarization,

584
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 14: and neither has it been specified about how the thing's

585
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 14: going to work. So just in background, it was it

586
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 14: was not a formal communicate. It was the Reserve Bank

587
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 14: of India recommended to the government that proposal be put

588
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 14: on the agenda for the twenty twenty six Brick summits.

589
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 14: So it's no more than there. It's just a recommendation

590
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 14: for proposal. But even if you take that as red

591
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 14: there are many different ways this bridge can exist. It

592
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 14: is not a CBDC or a brick CBDC. What is

593
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 14: they are saying is each country is free to build

594
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 14: their own central bank digital currencies and use this undefined

595
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 14: thing as a bridge between them in order to speed

596
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 14: up payment and make it more efficient. Which is a

597
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 14: good thing, But in fact there are two problems with this.

598
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 14: The dollar will not be displaced. In fact, surprising statistically,

599
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 14: you Stephen, the dollar is more dominant now than it

600
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 14: was one year ago. The second thing is Trump has

601
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 14: said that anybody tries to do anything to dedollarize one

602
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 14: hundred percent tariffs, and you know, if nothing else, his

603
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 14: bullying is very very effective. So this, even if it

604
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 14: is implemented, even if it's in its undefined current form,

605
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 14: it's not going to have much impact.

606
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: The other problem I suppose, as a I told me

607
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: today when I asked it, we don't have as South

608
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 2: Africa an official single digital currency from the res Bank,

609
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: although it is investigating one.

610
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 14: Yeah, they'd been investigating it for a long time. And

611
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 14: let me say that there are people within the Reserve

612
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 14: Bank who are very clever and understand the space to

613
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 14: get from very clever people at the Reserve Bank to

614
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 14: a policy paper that turns into legislation at the Parliament

615
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 14: is a very very long bridge. So I think that

616
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 14: there are people with the Reserve Bank who would like

617
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 14: to start building one. I think the ability to explain

618
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 14: that in simple terms to one of our people in

619
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 14: Parliament is going to be at all order. But yes,

620
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 14: so correct. We have no digital currency here, and neither

621
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 14: do some of the other countries and bricks by the way,

622
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 14: it's China and it's India, which is not blockchain based.

623
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 14: It's got nothing to do with it, and there's some

624
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 14: other efforts around there. So there's a lot to be

625
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 14: done before the scene becomes reality.

626
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: Does the US have one countries like that? And the

627
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: reason I ask is that often in the past, what

628
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 2: Western countries do with sort of high finance, if I

629
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: can call this, that tends set a trend. Is there

630
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 2: any kind of obvious way in which countries would create

631
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: as a digital currency for themselves that would work, that

632
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: is anywhere close to being adopted as a kind of norm.

633
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 14: Us is an interesting case. There was quite a lot

634
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 14: of noise about this and people thinking that this may

635
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 14: be a good idea in government. And then Trump came

636
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 14: along basically said of a might dead body because his

637
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 14: domestic audience does not want the prospect of a central

638
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 14: bank digital currency that can see all their transactions. And

639
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 14: the central bank digital currency is basically a digital representation

640
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 14: of cash, and right now, with cash, if you go

641
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 14: in a lick astorre New Empire under proof vodka, nobody

642
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 14: can see that transaction. So he's come up very strongly

643
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 14: against it. He said, stable coins, which has got nothing

644
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 14: to do with the central Bank, is fine with me,

645
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 14: but we will never do a central bank digital currency.

646
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 14: Various other countries are at various stages of experimenting. But

647
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 14: the problem is, in order to build these things, because

648
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 14: we're global world, we have to have interoperability rules between

649
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 14: countries that have their own CBDCs, and we have none

650
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 14: of that because it is inordinately and exuberantly complicated to

651
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 14: do so. We have Swift, which was built up over

652
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 14: a long period of time the Swift network, which is

653
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 14: into country trade, works very very well, but it's in Dallas.

654
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting you say we're a globalized world.

655
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: I was sort of thinking to myself, well, I'm not

656
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: sure for how much longer. But all of this then

657
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 2: would suggest that in fact, the Swift system, cash, using

658
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: your credit card, all of that is going to be

659
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 2: around with us for a lot longer than we might

660
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 2: have thought.

661
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 14: Now Swift is moving to blockchain, so they're putting what

662
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 14: they currently have onto the blockchain simply because it's cheaper

663
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 14: and more reliable and more secure. But it will still

664
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 14: be Swift. Our credit cards are now have the ability

665
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 14: to pay in bitcoin either and sable coins and of

666
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 14: Mary Southern Country, so we still will have that, although

667
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 14: there will be other currencies added to the ability to pay.

668
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 14: So they are not shedding their skins completely. They're adding

669
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 14: new capabilities as they arrive from the world of cryptos.

670
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 2: Stephen Boaki said, thank you so much, really to appreciate

671
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: the time. Partner at Bridige Capital, Professor of Practice at

672
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 2: the Johannesburg Business School at the University of Johannesburg. In

673
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 2: a moment, doctor Ritabila Milamu from the essay photovol Take

674
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,959
Speaker 2: Industry Association, how quickly our solar industry is growing, how

675
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 2: quickly Africa's is growing as well. That's still to come.

676
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 2: Don't forget from the Pool to retail in at seven thirty,

677
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: with The Money Show at seven.

678
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Credits on seven

679
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: o two.

680
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: Next walk little. The Money Show with Stephen Curtis has

681
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 2: brought to you by ABS, the Corporate and Investment Banking,

682
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: a Pan African bank that's invested in your story because

683
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: your story matters. Five after seven, Well plenty to come

684
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 2: in the next little while. Doctor Ritebila Milamu's the CEO

685
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 2: of the essay photovol Take Industry Association, looking forward to

686
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: talking to her about how quickly the solar industry is growing,

687
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 2: not just here but around Africa as well. I don't

688
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 2: know how you feel about stress, how you get through

689
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: the day, and they're different types, you know. I always

690
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: sort of think of short term stress. Am I going

691
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: to get this deadline? Am I going to get all

692
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: my prep done before six o'clock on the start of

693
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 2: the Money Show? And then longer term stress, which I'm

694
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 2: sure you share with me, Am I going to earn

695
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: enough money for the family this year? Am I going

696
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 2: to do this? Is this all going to work over

697
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: the longer term? Those kind of two different types of stress.

698
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: And someone who's a lot of experience about it is

699
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: Richard Sutton. He's the founder in CEO of Sudden Health

700
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 2: and the Performance and he's written a book about it.

701
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: It's called Shift Happens. Yeah, I got it too, and

702
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 2: essentially how to build that confidence under pressure and then

703
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 2: the journey from the water polo pool to retail. Amber Penny,

704
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 2: who's the co founder and chief detail officer at Farah,

705
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 2: will talk to her and how I make my money

706
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 2: and she is basically being involved in starting a company

707
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: at quite a young age, if I may say, taken

708
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: her experience of elite sport to starting a company. They

709
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 2: do something particularly interesting around selling cheaper clothes. Good to

710
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: hear from you O double one double A three oh

711
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 2: seven O two two one four four six O five

712
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: six seven and voice notes of course on seven two

713
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 2: one seven seven to seven oh two one seven oh

714
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 2: two seven minutes now after seven up.

715
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 3: Stephen on seven two seven oh two one seven O

716
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 3: two All right.

717
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 2: Well, voice notes coming through and of course the Trump

718
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 2: conversation kicking off quite a lot of thoughts.

719
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 15: I think the one thing that then I'm learning is

720
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 15: that Trump is vocal about something that all these other

721
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 15: countries are doing. China and Russia were were were quiet

722
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 15: when one of their allies.

723
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 5: Was being was being invaded.

724
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: That speaks volumes. Speaking of which.

725
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 15: Donald Trump has sold the oil for Quennezuela.

726
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 2: Who bought it? Sam here from Danville? Yes, Sam, interesting point. Actually,

727
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 2: I don't know who bought it. I mean, I presume

728
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: the American oil industry. I'm not really sure. Kevin's puts

729
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 2: a very interesting point on what's that line? He says, Stephen,

730
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 2: if Trump makes it more expensive to import goods into America,

731
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: doesn't that incentivize businesses in America to manufacture and produce

732
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 2: the same goods in America more deeply, thereby stimulating the economy,

733
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: increasing tax revenue, and creating employment. Of South Africa is

734
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 2: selling America oranges now the price of orange South African

735
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: oranges goes up by fifty percent because of the tariffs.

736
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 2: When American farmers now start growing oranges that they can

737
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: sell for fifty percent less than South African oranges, and

738
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: pretty soon South Africa will not be able to export

739
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: oranges to America again, because America will be producing its

740
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 2: own oranges. What am I missing here, Kevin? So, Kevin,

741
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 2: it's a really interesting point that you make, and on

742
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 2: one level you may turn out to be correct. But

743
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: trade happens because different countries have different advantages for different reasons.

744
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: And to put it another way, if it was economical

745
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 2: for the US to bar to basically produce oranges at

746
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: a cheap rate, well then they would have done that. Instead,

747
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 2: it isn't, certainly not all year round, and the solution

748
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 2: to that was to go and find cheaper oranges, and

749
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 2: they found them here. Orange is a bit of a

750
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 2: complicated example because it's seasonal. But let's just take for example,

751
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: making cell phones. The United States used to make cell

752
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: phones by the bucket load. In fact, they don't anymore.

753
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: Why because Apple found a way to do it more cheaply,

754
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 2: using people in China and more and more in India,

755
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: to the point where the US no longer has the

756
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: capacity to produce the kind of smartphone that you might like. Now,

757
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 2: it could be that the US could regain that capacity,

758
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: and we've seen many people who've worked in that industry.

759
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: Making this point, it would cost about five times or

760
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: at least twice as much to get that cell phone

761
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: made in the United States then it would be to

762
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: produce it in China. It basically boils down to that.

763
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 2: So in the end, Kevin, on one level, you may

764
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 2: be right, but it will make life in the United

765
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 2: States much more expensive because the big story about globalization

766
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,479
Speaker 2: and trade over the last or I don't know, fifty years,

767
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: seventy years is that in the end it makes goods

768
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: cheaper for everyone everywhere. The other thing about trade, by

769
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 2: the way, is that it often stops wars. Although I

770
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 2: may need to remind you I learned over the Christmas

771
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: period in a book I was reading that before the

772
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: world first World War, the two biggest trading partners in

773
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 2: the world were Germany and the UK.

774
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 16: As on the.

775
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 3: Money shows six to eight pm.

776
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: Ten after seven, Well after that, cheerful thoughts. Some interesting

777
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,479
Speaker 2: numbers coming from the Africa Solar Industry Association today showing

778
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 2: up the amount of solar power being produced in Africa

779
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: is actually much bigger than previously thought. So previously it

780
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 2: was thought there was around twenty three gigawatts of solar

781
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 2: generation capacity. The Africa Solar Outlook twenty twenty six reports

782
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 2: suggests it's actually around sixty four gigawatts. I mean, that's

783
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: a lot more than we previously thought. Doctor Ritabila Milamu

784
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: is the CEO of the South African photovol Take Industry

785
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 2: Association Retabila. Good evening and thanks so much for your time.

786
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 2: We see this huge jump in what we think is

787
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 2: happening in Africa. I presume you've also seen a big

788
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 2: jump in the amount of solar generating capacity in South

789
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 2: Africa over the last few years.

790
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 9: Yesh got in in Steven and got in into your

791
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 9: listeners and wishing all of you a happy twenty twenty six. Indeed,

792
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 9: we have seen an increase in in the installed solar

793
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 9: PIVA capacity, but I must emphasize that our very best

794
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 9: years were during lordship. Our best year by far was

795
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 9: twenty twenty four. However, the instore capacity is still increasing

796
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 9: and the number of reasons for that. I think it's

797
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 9: important to note that faller and storage or that has

798
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 9: been one of the key drivers for this. A trend

799
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 9: that we are observing in South Africa really driven by

800
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 9: the commercial and industrial sectors.

801
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 2: So there was a time when a solar panel was

802
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: useful only during the day. That's rarely changed. But more importantly,

803
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 2: the economics of that storage has changed, and I presume

804
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 2: that starts to make it more attractive, particularly because eskem's

805
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 2: prices have got so high.

806
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 9: Absolutely, in fact, we are on record as an industry

807
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 9: association to indicate that what actually reduced the severity of

808
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 9: law shedding wasn't just solar alone, it was sola in storage.

809
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 9: Most households understood that you needed a combination of both

810
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 9: a PV as well as BASS to secure yourself against

811
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 9: the impact of load shedding. But I think government is

812
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 9: also realizing that the combination of both renewable energy solar

813
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 9: specifically and BASS is one of the interventions and solutions

814
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 9: that will ensure that as a country will remain energy secure.

815
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 9: But again, as you indicate, the industry itself and business

816
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,919
Speaker 9: is realizing the benefits of both solar and PASS and

817
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 9: they are by far the biggest drivers of this market.

818
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 4: Yeah.

819
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 9: I think we're looking at about eleven gigawats of install

820
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 9: solar PAVY capacity, and well over half of that is

821
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 9: in the commercial and industrial segment. And of course REP

822
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 9: has some about just shy of three gigawats of capacity installed,

823
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 9: but by far commercial and industry market segment, it has

824
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 9: led the charge on solar and best installations.

825
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I would imagine still for many industries now

826
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 2: a solar and storage installation over time will pay itself

827
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 2: off quite quickly and so for probably quite a long time,

828
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: there'll be a sort of they'll be sustained demand for

829
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 2: your industry, for your industry absolutely.

830
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,439
Speaker 9: I mean, if you considered some of the insights from

831
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 9: this Er Market Outlook report, you may have noticed that

832
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 9: the prices of our best specifically, which has been relatively

833
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 9: higher than that of modules, which have gone down by

834
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 9: ninety five percent in the past twenty years. Beirs have

835
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 9: gone down by at least sixty seventy percent in the

836
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 9: past eight years. And so it's making an investment in

837
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 9: Bosola and there's really attractive for business and household and

838
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 9: as you highlighted, in the light of the increases above

839
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 9: inflation or three times the inflation that we are seeing

840
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 9: with Escomb, the BET and Sola are becoming a nobray

841
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 9: and a really in Africa.

842
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 2: We thought that there was twenty three gigawats of solar

843
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 2: generation capacity. This report suggests is actually closer to sixty

844
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 2: four gigawads. How tightly do we monitor the amount of

845
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: solar capacity in South Africa? There must be some people

846
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: who've imported their own stuff, wouldn't necessarily checked in a

847
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 2: container or whatever and set up set themselves up. Do

848
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 2: we monitor it very tightly?

849
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 9: Yeah, we do. Actually, Steven, we had a conversation with

850
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 9: OURCA before they published this report, and I think our

851
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 9: we realized that we estimate the South Africa has about

852
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 9: thirty percent less than what the export market is export

853
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 9: data is indicating, and we do think that is maybe

854
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 9: stop pout for some of the upcoming projects, but possibly

855
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 9: also exported in the region, especially the Sadak region. So

856
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 9: whilst elsewhere in the continent we're seeing three or four

857
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 9: times more export than what is currently reported, in South Africa,

858
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 9: we are looking at about thirty percent more than what

859
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 9: we report, and we report we follow those statistics very closely.

860
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 9: We follow NASA data. We work with some companies to

861
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 9: use satellite imagery to estimate what they installed capacity.

862
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 2: I mean, the other piece of information may or may

863
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 2: not be useful, is it seems to be a decline

864
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 2: in the volume of electricity sold by ESCAM.

865
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 9: Absolutely absolutely, and I think what's what has been helpful

866
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 9: is that ESCOM has been publishing they installed or the

867
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 9: the the capacity that is coming from SOLA and this

868
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 9: estimating that non reprojects are about seven KICK and we estimate

869
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 9: about eight KICK. And that's why you are seeing a

870
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 9: lot more sales within municipalities of electricity because most affluent

871
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 9: neighborhoods have a combination of both solar and storage doctory systems.

872
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: Doctor Resabille Malama, thank you so much, really to appreciate

873
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 2: that the very enlightening the seer of the South African

874
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 2: Photovoltaic Industry Association Show Business Books twenty minutes now after

875
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 2: save the time. I don't know how you feel during

876
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 2: the week and at the end of it, but I'm

877
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: sure somewhere along the line you must feel stress. You

878
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 2: have a lot to do, you have very little time

879
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 2: to do it, or worse, you don't know how to

880
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: start something, which stresses you out even more. Or worse,

881
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 2: you get a sense that you're kind of feeling that

882
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 2: you've failed at something you don't really know what to

883
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 2: do next. Well, someone's written a book about just that.

884
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 2: The book is called I'll say this very carefully. Shift happens.

885
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 2: It's by Richard Sutton. He's the founder and CEO at

886
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 2: Sutton Health and the performance Richard, good evening, Thank you

887
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 2: for your time. You talk about dealing with stress in

888
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 2: the book and you say it's from your own experiences.

889
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 2: What kind of sort of lessons are you sharing in this.

890
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 17: Book, Good evening, and thank you for having me on

891
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 17: the show. So there are are many lessons, very much

892
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 17: centering around finding mearity, finding meaning, finding purpose, being able

893
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 17: to turn stress off at well. But it also kind

894
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 17: of points after paradigm shift in terms of we assume

895
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 17: that stress is bad, but the reality is that all

896
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 17: great things in our life actually come from stress, and

897
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 17: the stress actual is that that brings about, in many respects,

898
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 17: superpowers that exist within us, more strength, more mental acurity,

899
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 17: more focus, more everything. So it kind of looks at

900
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 17: it in a very contextual way and doesn't dismiss or

901
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 17: diminish how tough the world is and how challenging life is,

902
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 17: but really up resources you or one so that one

903
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 17: is equipped to find one's path and ultimately arrive in

904
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 17: one's destination.

905
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 2: I've met people who look quite bored or don't really

906
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 2: get anything done until you put them in a very

907
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: stressful situation and suddenly they rarely perform. I mean, there

908
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 2: are plenty of people like that, and we've probably all

909
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 2: had moments.

910
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 5: Like that too, very very much so.

911
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,240
Speaker 16: And the thing is that the best version of self,

912
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,720
Speaker 16: that version that we want to be, is broad about

913
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 16: by a little bit of stretch in our lives where

914
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 16: we pushed beyond what we're comfortable doing, or we challenged

915
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 16: just above and beyond what's familiar to us, and something

916
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 16: happens in us. We become mobiliz become in a child,

917
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 16: we become alive that there's this light and if you

918
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 16: look at the degrees we got in the school we completed,

919
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 16: and the relationships were in and all these big masters

920
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 16: in our lives that were quite stressful. So you're so

921
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 16: right in saying it's just you can turn on something, well,

922
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 16: not something, it's ancestral software, the stress axis that that

923
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 16: brings about what we're capable of.

924
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 2: You talk about turning stress off, and I presume there

925
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 2: would be reasons why you would do that. How does

926
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 2: that work?

927
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 5: So the difference between good and bad stress, essentially is

928
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 5: time and magnitude so if we stress for short intervals,

929
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 5: it was actually very mobilizing, very health promote positive thing.

930
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 5: When the stress is protracted, and protracted means different things

931
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 5: to different people. It could be for a period of days,

932
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 5: it could be a period of months. But when stress

933
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 5: is protect it becomes very destructive in that it's a

934
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 5: very strong biological entity on its side, it's upregulating multiple systems.

935
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 5: It becomes exhausting. At the same time, we all have

936
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 5: a tolerance, a tolerance to challenges and tolerance to whatever

937
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 5: we confront it within our life, and when we perceive

938
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,760
Speaker 5: that tolerance to kind of cross a threshold and become

939
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 5: a threat, all of a sudden, our stress responds to

940
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 5: become disproportional. So really, ultimately our journey towards the actualization

941
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 5: of self very much centers around a couple of things.

942
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 5: Whe Is I know myself, Two I can control myself,

943
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 5: and three I hold myself accountable for doing that.

944
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 16: And within the book there's so many tools and so

945
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 16: many leavers that one can pull. Where we feel that

946
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 16: this is a little bit too much, is to go

947
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 16: on a little bit too far? How do I self regulate?

948
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 16: How do I self manage? How do I reset and

949
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 16: start with a fresh perspective and emotional composure.

950
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 2: Sort of closely aligned to it. I think is something

951
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 2: that I think the older I get, the more important

952
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: I realized this is. And I'm talking specifically about confidence.

953
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 2: And I can see people and I think, well, that

954
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 2: person has got a brain much bigger than they're letting on,

955
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 2: or they have this kind of ability or whatever, and

956
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: I can see what's holding them back. There's confidence. And

957
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 2: in fact, people as people get older, I sometimes think

958
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 2: they start to sort of maybe gain a little bit

959
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 2: more confidence. I certainly hope. So how can you manage

960
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 2: your confidence? I mean, I think we've all had moments

961
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 2: where we've sort of been knocked down. How do you

962
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 2: get back up again?

963
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 8: You know, we.

964
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 16: Assume that it's only us who go through these questions,

965
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 16: questions on self worth and self esteem and imposter syndrome,

966
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 16: and we think that the outside world is not suffering

967
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 16: or not struggling with these perceptions. There was an interesting

968
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 16: I gave a keynote for a very successful organization and

969
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 16: the invited all their peers and colleagues within the industry

970
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 16: and had this group about one hundred leaders, all highly

971
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 16: accomplished or highly successful, and we had this anonymous platform

972
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,439
Speaker 16: where the question that I put forward to the group

973
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 16: is what do you believe your biggest limitation in life is?

974
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 16: And it was aggregated anonymous and or kind of all

975
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 16: the statements are coming up on the screen, and every

976
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 16: single statement was confidence, self worth, imposter syndrome, not believing

977
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 16: in myself.

978
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 5: Those were the big barriers. So you look at that

979
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 5: and you realize that we're on this shared journey.

980
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 16: This is the thing. The ultimate, the ultimate expression of

981
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 16: our fullest potential lies in the fact that we believe

982
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 16: that we can achieve what we want to achieve. So

983
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 16: to go back to your question, you know we're looking

984
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 16: at confidence. What are those big corrosive entities in terms

985
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 16: of confidence? And interestingly enough, disproportional stress or unmanaged stress

986
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 16: is one of the biggest protagonists in that the primary

987
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,479
Speaker 16: stress woman. Cortisol has a very destructive effect in terms

988
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 16: of brain behaviors and brain circuits. And one of the

989
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 16: side effects is not just abdominal pain or getting colds

990
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 16: and food more regularly, or feeling a little bit down,

991
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 16: a little bit anxious, but actually this corrosion of self esteem,

992
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 16: self worth, self confidence. So if we can manage our

993
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 16: stress responses, control them, use it when we need it,

994
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 16: and subjugate it when we don't need it. We can

995
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 16: start kind of shifting this internal state that lends itself

996
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 16: towards the opportunity to develop confidence in other ways through

997
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 16: vicious experiences and other mechanisms.

998
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 2: You talk a little bit about meditation, which I've got

999
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: to tell you, which is not rarely my vibe. Maybe

1000
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: it should be does that help? I know plenty of

1001
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 2: people who say to me it.

1002
00:57:55,640 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 18: Really does help, or it makes a massive difference, And

1003
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 18: I have to share those sentiments with you, and that

1004
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 18: it's not my five either, but I've made it my vibe,

1005
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 18: and just because it's so powerful.

1006
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 5: And if you look at the world around us, the

1007
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 5: world around us are just loaded with distractions.

1008
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 16: Our phone is going every couple of seconds, if not

1009
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 16: even in shorter times.

1010
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 5: We have to answer emails.

1011
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 16: We're having conversations whilst I'm answering emails whilst looking at

1012
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 16: our phone, whilst the world around us is so distracted.

1013
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 16: So when you look at meditation, it's quite interesting because

1014
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 16: it's almost training our brain and our thought processes to

1015
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 16: become more centered instead of speeding up and everything in

1016
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 16: the world around us is about going faster and quicker

1017
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 16: and at more pace. It's about slowing down, which ultimately

1018
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 16: is a calibrator. But there's so many studies showing increased

1019
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 16: brain volume, increased capacity for folks and attention, stabilized mood,

1020
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 16: improved recovery. It's the research on the data is spectacular

1021
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 16: in this in this context.

1022
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 2: Richard Sutton, thank you very much. Indeed, founder and CEO

1023
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: at Sudden Health and the Performance. The book is called

1024
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 2: Shift Happens by Richard Sutton, fascinating twenty eight minutes now

1025
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 2: after seven.

1026
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 3: How Money Show How I Make My money?

1027
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 2: Twenty four minutes now to eighth the time. I'm sure

1028
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,959
Speaker 2: from time to time you've been into a clothing store

1029
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 2: and you've looked around and you've looked at something. You

1030
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 2: know that moment where you take your left hand or

1031
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 2: your right hand and you put the fabric, often from

1032
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 2: the sleeve or the bottom of it, and you just

1033
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 2: feel that you know that feeling, and you think to yourself,

1034
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 2: this is quite nice. I think I'm gonna I think

1035
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 2: I really want this. And then you look at the

1036
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 2: price and you think to yourself, hmm, never gonna pay

1037
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 2: that much for it, and yet so many of those

1038
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 2: garments end up being classified as what's called overstocked. And

1039
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 2: into this gap comes a company called Farroh. They take

1040
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 2: what other people haven't sold, they sell it at a

1041
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 2: major discount. And the person who helped to start it

1042
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 2: Namers and Penny. She's the co founder and she's operating

1043
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: officer at Farrow Amber. Good evening. Thanks so much for

1044
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 2: joining us and explaining your career to us tonight.

1045
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 10: Hi, Steve, thanks so much, Thanks for having me. It's

1046
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 10: great to be here.

1047
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: How does it work? How does your model work compared

1048
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 2: to how other retail chains work. I mean many of

1049
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 2: them will have goods made for them and they sell them.

1050
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 2: You do something slightly different.

1051
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 10: Exactly, Yes, So we look to buy the overstock from

1052
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 10: brands kind of globally and locally, so a little bit

1053
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 10: of a distributed model there, and we essentially buy the

1054
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 10: overstock all the products that's you know, from last season

1055
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 10: or often actually from the current season that hasn't sold yet,

1056
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 10: so it's still you know, great, a brand new stock

1057
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 10: that of course, with this, you know, the rise and

1058
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 10: the global overstock crisis, brands are really really in trouble.

1059
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 10: With the overproduction and the over manufacturing of garments to

1060
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 10: keep up with fast fashion trends. And so we come

1061
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 10: in and offer them a you know, kind of cost

1062
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 10: price for the good cover their base and obviously then

1063
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 10: allows us to pass that serving onto the customer. So

1064
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 10: we essentially import or kind of as I said, purchased

1065
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 10: locally from from brands, and we redistributed through our stores

1066
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 10: at an out left price. So kind of global brands

1067
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 10: like Zara, a lot of the intertext brands Zara pullinber Bershka,

1068
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 10: so those European brands, we struggle to get you at

1069
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 10: an accessible price. And then also top sports brands, you know,

1070
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 10: like Adidas, et cetera, et cetera, and we essentially sell

1071
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,439
Speaker 10: that through our stores at an outlet price.

1072
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 19: I have so many questions about this business model, and

1073
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 19: my first is why is there an overstock crisis? Is

1074
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 19: it just because they Is it because they price themselves

1075
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 19: out of the market because too many of us are

1076
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 19: feeling that that material and going no, but not a chance?

1077
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 10: No, I mean yes, But also to be honest with you,

1078
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 10: I mean, if you think about fast fashion, right, so

1079
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 10: think about the way that trends are moving through the

1080
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 10: world at the moment. So I mean you think about

1081
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 10: the most recent trends of you know, those kind of

1082
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 10: pump or ballet slippers for women. I mean those have

1083
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 10: been in for a season and they're already moving out

1084
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 10: in terms of trends. And so what these big post

1085
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 10: fashion retailers are doing is they are having to manufacture

1086
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 10: goods at such a large scale in terms of quantity

1087
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 10: to be able to distribute enough products but keep up

1088
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 10: with a trend that is only available for a season.

1089
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 10: And so if you aren't manufacturing at a rapid speed

1090
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 10: and distributing enough product, you losing out. But then on

1091
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 10: the flip side, there's obviously a huge amount that is

1092
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 10: over manufactured and when the trend goes out of season,

1093
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 10: they left with a bunch of stock that is you know,

1094
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 10: so now, for example, the stuff that they haven't sold

1095
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 10: of the pump flats, those are brand new, beautiful garments,

1096
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 10: so Zara pump flat that would have absolutely flown in

1097
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 10: the previous season because they were in trend. Now they

1098
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 10: slipped with a huge amount of overstock and they can't

1099
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 10: do anything with it. So the brand loses money as

1100
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 10: well as you know, a lot of the problem with

1101
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 10: these class fashioned brands is that they end up incinerating

1102
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 10: the stock or sending it to the landfills. And so

1103
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 10: instead of them doing that and using money, we offer

1104
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 10: the garments an extra life cycle and a market that

1105
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 10: probably couldn't afford the full price. So we're giving people

1106
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 10: accessibility to these global brands. But it's also products that

1107
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 10: would have just been gone or gone to complete waste.

1108
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 10: So it's crazy. And obviously with the rise of e

1109
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 10: commerce as well, So if you imagine, you know, there's

1110
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 10: such a trend overseas of buying, for example, online, you

1111
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 10: buy a jersey that is a medium and at large,

1112
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 10: and you because you want to try it on, but

1113
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 10: it's the same jersey, So you buy the jersey, you

1114
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 10: try both on, and you return the one. Often that

1115
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 10: return gunment goes into the overstock tile, so operationally to

1116
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,439
Speaker 10: put that back into the kind of mainstream stock file

1117
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 10: is super tricky. And so these the kind of return

1118
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 10: stock and overstock just grows and grows and grows, and

1119
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 10: so you know, as this e commerce trend.

1120
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 4: Is growing, so is overstock.

1121
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,479
Speaker 10: So those two things combined, it's just you know, leading

1122
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 10: us into the fashion industry being a huge, huge problem

1123
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 10: for the environment.

1124
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 2: Amber. I mean to hear you describe this industry as

1125
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 2: to remind me of a very old American expression that's

1126
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 2: a heck of a way to run a railroad. In

1127
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 2: other words, it's all a bit mad. I'm slightly surprised

1128
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,439
Speaker 2: in a way that these chains haven't found a way

1129
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 2: to sell it themselves. And I realized that you've provided

1130
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 2: that solution for them and for your end customers. But

1131
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 2: I would have thought that, you know, they would just have,

1132
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 2: you know, because they're all owned, half of them our

1133
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 2: own by multinationals. Anyway, they will just sort of send

1134
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 2: it down the chain, down their own chain rather than selling.

1135
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 4: It to you.

1136
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 10: Yes, although I think you know the problem with that

1137
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 10: is so there's there are also other other stuff kind

1138
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 10: of distributors globally, So obviously you know the likes of tkmapps,

1139
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 10: TJX in the US, and then there's obviously their own

1140
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 10: sort of branded artlets. But again, you can only reduce

1141
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 10: the price so much in your own outset before you

1142
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 10: start kind of you know, absolutely cannibalizing your own market.

1143
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 10: So if there's a distribution channel that isn't within your

1144
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 10: own market, so for example, you know, Zaro Global would

1145
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 10: much rather solve their product through our markets where they

1146
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 10: feel it's you know, quite a fresh market that probably

1147
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 10: couldn't afford a large percentage of the stock in itself,

1148
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 10: rather than send it to the UK where a huge

1149
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 10: percentage of that market is buying Zara full price as

1150
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 10: it is, so it's sort of cannibalizing their own their

1151
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 10: own market that side. So I think that that new

1152
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 10: channel of distribution is definitely quite a big selling point

1153
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 10: for us and seemingly has landed quite well with the

1154
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 10: brand in terms of being able to tap into a

1155
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 10: market that they feel they haven't rarely managed to crack the.

1156
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 2: Full uh to sort of spot a gap like this.

1157
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 2: I mean, have you described as co founders, so I

1158
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 2: presume there's another co founder or co founders, how would you,

1159
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 2: I mean, how would someone even know that this is

1160
01:05:57,800 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 2: all happening. You would have to have some experience, and

1161
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 2: I suppose key to that then is the relationship with

1162
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 2: the person you're buying the stuff from.

1163
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 10: Yes, yes, totally, And I think it was quite a

1164
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 10: crazy journey in the way that Sarah started. I mean,

1165
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 10: so my co founder David Thaw and I have really

1166
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 10: had been plugged into the kind of you know, global

1167
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 10: of Starck crisis for a while, and I think we

1168
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 10: had been hearing of these companies globally that had tried

1169
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 10: to solve this again and again and again and failed.

1170
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 10: And I think we were at the time raising raising

1171
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 10: capital for a different business. And I think, you know,

1172
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 10: through the network of our investors as well as just

1173
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 10: kind of conversations with people in the industry, we really

1174
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 10: started to identify a gap where the distribution and a

1175
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 10: new channel through the use of a lot of technology

1176
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 10: as well, is very kind of optimal for this model.

1177
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 10: And so I think it was really through a series

1178
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 10: of conversations and just like taking the plunge, I mean,

1179
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 10: I can't say it was a light bulb moment. I think,

1180
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 10: you know, it was multiple conversations, digging into different industries, understanding,

1181
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 10: you know, why the brands globally had failed previously, how

1182
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 10: we can do things differently, and then rarely working on

1183
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 10: those relationships in terms of bringing on the right people. So,

1184
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 10: since it's in section in twenty twenty, I want to say,

1185
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 10: in twenty twenty two kills like a lifetime. But we

1186
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 10: we've brought on two other co founders so William mccaren

1187
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 10: from the UK, and then a guy called Chris mccanna

1188
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 10: who was at Supervolus before us, and he's really kind

1189
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 10: of yeah, just shaped the company in a way with

1190
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 10: a lot of retail experience, and so I think between

1191
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 10: the four of us, you know, Dave and I being

1192
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 10: predominantly from a startup background, and then Will and Chris

1193
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 10: having a little bit more retail experience. Will had previously

1194
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 10: started a second hand clothing business in Kenya, and so

1195
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 10: there was a lot of expertise that kind of came

1196
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 10: together to the table, and then through investor relations really

1197
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 10: just opened up a world of supply and I think,

1198
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 10: you know, initially obviously conversations our wholesalers and with third parties,

1199
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 10: and I think the more we started to dig, the

1200
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:08,479
Speaker 10: more we realized the demand is direct from the brand

1201
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 10: and we can actually kind of cut off that middle man.

1202
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,960
Speaker 10: And now you know, a huge percentage of our stock

1203
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 10: it comes direct from the brand themselves. So really kind

1204
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 10: of forming those relationships to figure out how this can

1205
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 10: be a mutually beneficial partnership for their man, for us,

1206
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:25,719
Speaker 10: and for our customers.

1207
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 2: Of course, there's certain things so you kind of need

1208
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 2: to make both ends work. So you need to make

1209
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 2: sure that you get the product that you need. Okay,

1210
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 2: spotted the gap there, but you also need to have

1211
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 2: places where you can sell it here, and you would

1212
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 2: have had to set that up, you would have needed

1213
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 2: capital to do that, you would have had to know

1214
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 2: where to do it, and that can be quite interesting.

1215
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, I don't know if Sentence City's

1216
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 2: the right place for a thing like this. Maybe it is,

1217
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 2: I have no idea.

1218
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:53,600
Speaker 3: What was that like.

1219
01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 2: Because you can't just put a store like this selling

1220
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 2: originally high end but now to better price stuff everywhere.

1221
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 2: You've got to be nice strategic about things like that.

1222
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think you know we have

1223
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 10: to thoughso be careful as to where we operate, so

1224
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 10: we don't you know, step on folders with our with

1225
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:17,640
Speaker 10: our local partners. I think we really are about making this,

1226
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 10: as you said, you know, beneficial for all parties, and

1227
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 10: so we are very cautious. And we've obviously got kind

1228
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 10: of very good relationships with our local distributors and good

1229
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 10: agreements as to where we can and can't operate, and

1230
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 10: so we really are kind of cautious with that. I

1231
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:35,679
Speaker 10: think the Honestly, one of the biggest challenges and biggest

1232
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 10: learnings was figuring out how to set up these kind

1233
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 10: of locations that scale because essentially, to give you an

1234
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 10: overview of the challenge, I mean, the nature of the

1235
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 10: inventory is largely one of a kind, so you aren't

1236
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:51,560
Speaker 10: bringing in an item that has skew depth, So you

1237
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 10: don't have size and curves of one item, right, So

1238
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 10: you're bringing in maybe as our jersey that's the medium,

1239
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 10: but it might be the only one of that jersey.

1240
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 10: And do you imagine that in a store space. It's

1241
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:06,839
Speaker 10: quite tricky because every store location has different inventry. Firstly, Secondly,

1242
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 10: you know, finding the right the exact right customer profile

1243
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 10: for us when I think our product largely appeals to

1244
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 10: a big kind of percentage of a population, as well

1245
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 10: as trying to appease a very FoST rollout that's sort

1246
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 10: of been you know, agreed upon with our investors. But

1247
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:28,880
Speaker 10: also you know, internally we've got a very sort of

1248
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 10: aggressive growth plan. So trying to marry all of those

1249
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 10: things while you know, trying to find the right locations

1250
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 10: has been honestly, really really challenging. I think we've made

1251
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 10: a lot of mistakes along the way, and I think

1252
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 10: really where we're at now is we've opened I mean,

1253
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 10: we started twenty twenty four with twenty twenty five with

1254
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 10: four stores.

1255
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 4: So last year we started with four.

1256
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 10: Stores, we ended with eighteen. So just in last year

1257
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 10: we opened twelve stores. So I mean someone we were

1258
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 10: opening four stores at a time. So with that, I

1259
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 10: mean you can imagine only having operated for a year

1260
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 10: before that, we rarely had to sprint before we could walk,

1261
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 10: So I mean we made a lot of errors, We

1262
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 10: learned a lot as to where the prime locations are,

1263
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 10: and I think we've had enough distribution where we can

1264
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 10: see exactly where the sweet spot is. So I think

1265
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 10: now we've got a really good kind of concept of

1266
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 10: the locations we're looking for, and we've been lucky in

1267
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:24,680
Speaker 10: the sense of they have started to really kind of

1268
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 10: open up for us. And I think we're now building

1269
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 10: the right kind of partnerships with the landlords and et cetera.

1270
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 10: But honestly, the beginning was just a lot of trial

1271
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 10: and error and a lot of talking to network and

1272
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 10: figuring out what might work and what might not. But again,

1273
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,680
Speaker 10: you know, when you're moving this fast, it really is

1274
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 10: largely trial and error and going with your gut.

1275
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 2: And I mean you also need to you need to

1276
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 2: sort of educate the customer. I suppose that this kind

1277
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 2: of thing is available. So you're advertising the way you

1278
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:59,680
Speaker 2: tell people that you can't just say best brands are

1279
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 2: cheap prices. It's going to maybe be a little bit

1280
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 2: more almost subversive. Is that the right word. You don't

1281
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 2: want to irritate the big brands.

1282
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 10: No, we actually haven't found too much red tape in

1283
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 10: terms of the marketing. I mean there is some sort

1284
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 10: of red tape obviously with global partners, and we need

1285
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 10: to be we need to, you know, stick to certain

1286
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,759
Speaker 10: kind of agreements and things. But I would say, actually,

1287
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 10: you know what we found as a brand, and I

1288
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 10: suppose this also comes from who we have internally. We

1289
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 10: rarely do stand for and want to stand for transparency

1290
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 10: and authenticity. And I think something that we've seen fashion

1291
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,640
Speaker 10: brands and where we've seen fashion brands go wrong is

1292
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 10: they're highly curated. You don't rarely understand you know, what's

1293
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 10: under the rug if you lift it up, Like what

1294
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 10: is their manufacturing process, what materials are they using. I

1295
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,719
Speaker 10: think there's a lot of there's a lot of mistrust

1296
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 10: that's developed in the fashion industry, and so for us,

1297
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 10: we really want to build a brand where people can

1298
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 10: ask all the questions they want. So, you know, initially,

1299
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 10: I think it's a little bit better now because we've

1300
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:00,720
Speaker 10: got a lot of like, you know, more stores. But

1301
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 10: in the beginning, you can imagine someone's walking into promenade

1302
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 10: more and seeing a Zara puffa jacket for four hundred brand,

1303
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:10,600
Speaker 10: and they're going, no, no, it doesn't seem legitimate, Like

1304
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 10: where these guys getting their products. I've never seen the

1305
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 10: store before.

1306
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 18: Is it real?

1307
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:15,680
Speaker 7: Is it not?

1308
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 10: There was a lot of doubts in the beginning, and

1309
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 10: I think through consistent communication and also just through growth

1310
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 10: and kind of you know, organically showing people, you know,

1311
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 10: ask the questions, we can tell you the detail, like

1312
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 10: there's there's nothing to hide here. I think that's rarely

1313
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 10: helped with the word of mouth, and I think has

1314
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 10: rarely helped people actually connect with the brand and feel

1315
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 10: like they're almost building it alongside us. I mean, it's

1316
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 10: really cool. Like our social media and we always chuckle

1317
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 10: internally because our social media is just filled with the

1318
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 10: ends of like suggestions on how to run Fara. Oh

1319
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:50,719
Speaker 10: so it's like and not necessarily like returns policies, but like, hey, guys,

1320
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 10: I really think you should try get this brand, or

1321
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 10: like you know, it just feels like customers because we

1322
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,559
Speaker 10: also use customers and a lot of our our marketing contents.

1323
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 10: I think they feel almost like they work for the

1324
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 10: like they're part of us building this company, like they've

1325
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 10: seen us from one store to eighteen, and so there

1326
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 10: is this close relationship, and I think that gets fostered

1327
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 10: the more transparent we are about what we do. And

1328
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 10: I think that's really the the such of our marketing

1329
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 10: and our advertisments, just being as explicit as we can

1330
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 10: be so that people don't don't have this kind of

1331
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 10: doubt in the brand.

1332
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 2: Amber Penny is the co founder and chief operating officer

1333
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 2: at Pharaoh. We're talking to her for the next few minutes.

1334
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:31,639
Speaker 2: Just gone nine minutes now to eight.

1335
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 13: The Money Show with Stephen Quetis is brought to you

1336
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:38,600
Speaker 13: by abs as cib a Pan African bank invested in

1337
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 13: your story and the potential it can unlock because your

1338
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 13: story matters as as a register their.

1339
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 3: FSP how many how I make my money?

1340
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:51,719
Speaker 2: Seven minutes to eight. Amber Penny is the co founder

1341
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 2: and chief operating officer at Pharaoh Amber. I'm only going

1342
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 2: to ask you one question about this promise that I

1343
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:00,560
Speaker 2: know that you played water polo for South Africa. You

1344
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 2: played college water polo in the US, which I don't

1345
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 2: know much about it. I know someone who swims for

1346
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 2: a college in the US, and I understand it's quite

1347
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 2: a competitive environment sport at such an elite level. Did

1348
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 2: that help you prepare for this in any way? If

1349
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 2: there's one thing I know about water polo, I think

1350
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 2: I didn't even survive half a lesson is that you

1351
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:22,560
Speaker 2: have to be very fit and very disciplined.

1352
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 10: Yes, yeah, no, for sure, Stephen. I mean I think

1353
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,720
Speaker 10: it's probably the fundament of everything. I think if I

1354
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 10: really think about why I got into the startup space,

1355
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 10: I mean, straight off the bat off the university was

1356
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 10: really because I think I was looking for that same adrenaline,

1357
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 10: but also feeling of challenge and kind of being excuse

1358
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 10: upon but thrown in the deep end was really kind

1359
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 10: of I suppose having to strive and push myself to

1360
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 10: achieve new kind of great heights. I think I you know,

1361
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 10: I participated in performance supports my whole life. When I

1362
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,719
Speaker 10: was from when I was three years old, I competed

1363
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 10: in the martial arts taekwondo and competed all over the

1364
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 10: world for South Africa, and then obviously, you know, went

1365
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 10: into play water pulo quite seriously, and I've played water

1366
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:15,519
Speaker 10: pull it up until up until last year. And I

1367
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:20,600
Speaker 10: think really all of that has formed a behavior in

1368
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:25,719
Speaker 10: me that that is definitely disciplined, but also enjoys being

1369
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,479
Speaker 10: challenged and enjoys kind of taking the plunge. I think

1370
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 10: I really needed that in my career, and I think

1371
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 10: the two roles where I didn't feel that challenged, I

1372
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:36,760
Speaker 10: kind of found myself getting bored quite quickly. And so

1373
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:39,880
Speaker 10: I think this environment, as much as it, you know,

1374
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 10: comes with all of its its stress and it's really hard.

1375
01:16:43,439 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 10: I think a huge part of me gets so much

1376
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 10: purpose and so much performance from us because I think

1377
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 10: it's just the way that I've been wired for so long.

1378
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that must have started for you at quite a

1379
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:58,920
Speaker 2: young age, that determination to succeed. I mean, was at school.

1380
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 2: I imagine you played water p there was was it

1381
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 2: a family thing, was it something else that that gave

1382
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:05,760
Speaker 2: you that or I mean, I know, I know some

1383
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 2: people are just born with it. You might be one

1384
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 2: of those.

1385
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:08,760
Speaker 3: No.

1386
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:10,680
Speaker 10: No, I think it was a family thing. I mean

1387
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 10: I mentioned competing in a martial arts when I was

1388
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:18,479
Speaker 10: when I was little, and my whole family actually did

1389
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 10: it quite quite a crazy story. But my older brother

1390
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 10: started it, I think when he was about five and

1391
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 10: I was three, and I really kind of obviously wanted

1392
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:31,679
Speaker 10: to do everything he did, and so I started taekwondo

1393
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:33,800
Speaker 10: as well, and we did it together, and then both

1394
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 10: my parents actually started competing too, and so the four

1395
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 10: of us would travel. We competed for South Africa, and

1396
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 10: we'd travel to world championships all over the world, and

1397
01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 10: that really was my whole childhood until I was about fourteen,

1398
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 10: which was when I stopped takwonda and then moved on

1399
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,720
Speaker 10: to play play water polo quite seriously. So I really

1400
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:54,680
Speaker 10: think it was ingrained in me from from then. I

1401
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:58,800
Speaker 10: mean I was always fighting. I was the youngest black

1402
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 10: belt world at one stage, actually, and I was I

1403
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 10: was competing against boys who were three years older than

1404
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 10: me from when I was small. So I think you know,

1405
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:09,640
Speaker 10: that feeling of being always a little bit out of

1406
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:12,679
Speaker 10: your depth but kind of wanting to constantly push yourself,

1407
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:14,760
Speaker 10: I think is really was really ingrained in me from that,

1408
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:17,720
Speaker 10: and I think just my family being orientated around that

1409
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:22,440
Speaker 10: together was a huge sort of you know, character building exercise.

1410
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 2: Sure, quite something I have to ask with what you're

1411
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 2: doing now at Pharaoh. There's an intense competition in the

1412
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 2: retail clothing market, and not just from the brands that

1413
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:38,800
Speaker 2: have sold you their overstock stuff, but from stuff that

1414
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 2: might look very similar to it, which is new. And

1415
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:44,719
Speaker 2: I'm particularly interested in what sort of Timu and Shayin

1416
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 2: do because they're sort of mechanisms move so quickly. They're

1417
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 2: able to sort of see something coming in and produce that,

1418
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 2: you know, it seems sometimes almost overnight. And I and

1419
01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 2: they also do an incredibly cheap rice and let mus

1420
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:02,599
Speaker 2: make it quite tough for you to compete in that market,

1421
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 2: for sure, one hundred percent.

1422
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:07,280
Speaker 10: And I think especially if you know, I think it

1423
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,599
Speaker 10: depends on what the customer wants, so you know, maybe

1424
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:13,720
Speaker 10: playing in a space where you are working with a

1425
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:16,559
Speaker 10: customer who rarely really is just looking for the cheapest

1426
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 10: price of a T shirt. For sure, we don't compete

1427
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:22,719
Speaker 10: in that category. We aren't trying to beat the cheapest

1428
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 10: T shirt price. What we are trying to do is

1429
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 10: give people access to quality at an affordable price. So

1430
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 10: I think it's more of a value deals oriented model

1431
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 10: where we don't want to compromise on the quality and

1432
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 10: the shopping experience, but we want to give accessibility. And

1433
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 10: so from a price perspective, I think we want to

1434
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:44,839
Speaker 10: come in where you know that you're buying a product

1435
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 10: that has longevity, that's not going to last you one

1436
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:48,719
Speaker 10: season and then you're going to have to throw it away,

1437
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 10: but it's something that you can still you know, maybe

1438
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:55,439
Speaker 10: save up for or afford, you know, kind of quite frequently,

1439
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,920
Speaker 10: versus playing the full price of the brand or buying

1440
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:01,120
Speaker 10: a you know, a sheer or a temo product that's

1441
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 10: probably going to last you a few weeks and then break.

1442
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:06,559
Speaker 10: So I think that that's kind of the sweet spot

1443
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:09,639
Speaker 10: where we are trying to play. It is really giving

1444
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:12,879
Speaker 10: people access to quality at an affordable price.

1445
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:14,800
Speaker 2: And the penny. It has been wonderful to talk to you.

1446
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:17,439
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Such an interesting story. I really

1447
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 2: do appreciate it. The co founder and chief operating officer

1448
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:23,000
Speaker 2: at a Pharaoh. What an interesting business model that is.

1449
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:26,640
Speaker 13: The Money Show with Stephen Kuetters is brought to you

1450
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 13: by abs A, cib A Pan African Bank invested in

1451
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:33,840
Speaker 13: your story and the potential I can unlock because your

1452
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:35,160
Speaker 13: story matters.

1453
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:36,800
Speaker 5: That does the rest f SP.

1454
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:37,840
Speaker 8: Well.

1455
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:41,000
Speaker 2: US markets closed tonight, so no update there for you.

1456
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:42,840
Speaker 2: Of course, I think the big focus of much of

1457
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 2: the world is going to be what sort of happens

1458
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 2: next over Greenland. I'm reminded of Meryl Pickard market commentator tonight,

1459
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 2: just putting this all in historical context, and of course

1460
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 2: what happens next. The other problem is if Trump goes

1461
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 2: on to say in his letter to the Norse Agent

1462
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 2: Prime Minister that the world won't be safe until the

1463
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 2: US absolutely controls Greenland. Will it be safe if the

1464
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 2: world doesn't control Denmark or Britain or I don't know,

1465
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 2: if the US doesn't control all of Europe. I mean,

1466
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 2: where does it end? And isn't that one of the

1467
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 2: problems that the world might soon face. Well, there's a

1468
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:20,960
Speaker 2: cheerful thought for you to get through the rest of

1469
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:23,799
Speaker 2: the evening. Aubrey Masango is next. We'll see you tomorrow.

1470
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 2: Good evening, It's eight o'clock