1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: And so to our next conversation. A few years ago, 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: during an interview on Steve Bartlett's Diary of a CEO podcast, 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: Seth Rogan actor Seth Rogan, spoke very candidly about how 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: not having children had definitely played a huge part in 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: his success. He and his wife, Lauren Lauren Miller, have 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: been child free and happily married since twenty eleven, and 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: when Bartlett asked Seth to consider that maybe becoming parents 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: might have made his and Lauren's lives happier, he disagreed strongly. 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: And he's not alone. He's one of an awful lot 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: of people, a growing number, I think of people who 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: are choosing not to have children. I think the prevailing 12 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: belief across the world is that having children is almost 13 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: not only the k I don't know about the key 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: to happiness, but certainly something that we should all aspire to. 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: You know. It's an assumption that we're all going to 16 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: have children. It's why people ask people endlessly and nosalie, 17 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: when you're going to have kids. And I think we've 18 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: started to accept that maybe it's not okay to ask 19 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: those questions now, but for a long time, and I 20 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: think there's still a generation that doesn't quite understand why 21 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: it's not okay to ask people when they're going to 22 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: have children, why they're not going to have children. A 23 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: growing number of people are saying that the idea that 24 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: you can't that you can live child free and be fulfilled. 25 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: The number of people who are saying that that is 26 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: a perfectly reasonable thing to live child free and have 27 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: a fulfilled life is growing. They say that they're very 28 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: content and happy, fulfilled, probably better off financially. It's a 29 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: topic I think that's often misunderstood, sometimes judged, and maybe 30 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: these days is talked about more often. So this morning 31 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: we're opening up that conversation and I would love to 32 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: hear from you, whatever side of the fence you sit on. 33 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: And as we welcome our guest, Candice brestlet to join 34 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: us my own thoughts on this. As a mother of 35 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: two children, I of course one always feels like you 36 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: have to preface it with the caveat of I love 37 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: my children, and of course I do. Of course I 38 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: love my children, and I love a lot of being 39 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: a mother. I don't love a lot of being There's 40 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: a lot of things that I don't love about motherhood, 41 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: and it has got nothing to do with my children. 42 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: My children, as far as I'm concerned, are wonderful and 43 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: gorgeous and smart and intelligent and funny and all the 44 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: rest of it. Motherhood is a different concept to loving 45 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: your children. Those are two separate things. And the way 46 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: that we are expected to mother, and I'm saying mother 47 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: because I am a mother, as opposed to fatherhood. But 48 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: I think though there's a nuance there as well. And 49 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: I've said it before. We're expected to work like we 50 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: don't have children, have children like we don't work. And 51 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: I wonder if I had grown up in a society 52 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: that didn't almost expect me to have children, and had 53 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: had celebrated an idea that I would be able to 54 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: have a completely fulfilled life without having them. I wonder 55 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: whether I would have had them if there was as 56 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: much support for not having them as having them can 57 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: as welcome. 58 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 2: Hi, thanks so much, good morning morning. 59 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: How First of all, never mind all this. How are 60 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: you feeling after high rocks? 61 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 3: Honestly? Surprisingly? 62 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 2: Okay? 63 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: Are you? Was it your first one? 64 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: It was my first time because I am good. 65 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but. 66 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: I can walk. I got out of bed with our calling, 67 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: and for me, that is an absolute win. Are you? 68 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: What was your time? Not that it's relevant, really it 69 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: was over two hours, which. 70 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: Honestly was absolutely fine, amazing. I was never aiming for, like, 71 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: you know, a sub sixty. I was there to have 72 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: a good time, to enjoy the vibe and just to 73 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: kind of show what our body can do. Amazing take 74 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: tic tick. Just absolutely thought. 75 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: Oh absolute, you madam, Absolutely fantastic. Congratulations on it. All right, 76 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: so let's let's let's talk about this. Was there an 77 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: age at which you realized not for me, don't want 78 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: to do that? 79 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I mean there was before that. It was, 80 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: as you mentioned, just an assumption that you make. I mean, 81 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: you finished school, maybe you got a university, You meet somebody, 82 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: and then you get married and then you have a child. 83 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: And that's kind of the assumed life path that I 84 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 2: think as woman we kind of grow up into. And 85 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: I mean I tack those boxes, got married, and then 86 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 2: we're like, okay, cool, well I suppose I suppose we 87 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 2: need to have kids because that's what people do. And 88 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: then after about four years I was setty. I was like, 89 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 2: I don't actually know if I want to do this, 90 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,799 Speaker 2: And it was just like the kind of penny drop 91 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: that it was just such an assumption we never ever 92 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 2: thought to actually question. It was just something you did. 93 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: And remembering that there's actually agency in that choice. And 94 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 2: it was around the age of City, I was like, 95 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 2: we're really happy. I don't feel like anything's missing. I 96 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 2: also never had that deep maternal urge because everyone's like, oh, 97 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: you know, just wait, you know, the hormones ll kick 98 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: in or just wait, because obviously, if you don't want children, 99 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 2: there is something wrong with you and you need to 100 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: wait for that to be fixed. And that was ten 101 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 2: years ago, and. 102 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: And and the maternal urge so awful that never that 103 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: never kicked in, right. 104 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: No, I mean we say kick in like you know, 105 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 2: it's it's the other shoe that drops. It's the thing 106 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 2: that you know comes in to fix you. It makes 107 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: you the whole woman that you're meant to be on 108 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: this earth to fulfill your progress, your purpose of procreation. 109 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 2: So yeah, that was ten years ago, and my decision 110 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: hasn't changed, and if it does change, I were one 111 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: hundred percent adopts. I think that was also a very 112 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: key factor for me, that having children out of a 113 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: sense of obligation, because people think I should is one 114 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: not a good enough reason and would not be fair 115 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: obviously to the child, nor to me, especially with so 116 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 2: many children both needing homes and so many couples desperate 117 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 2: for children who possibly can't have children, for me to 118 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: just bring life into this world out of a sense 119 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: of societal pressure obligation just seemed deeply irresponsible. As well. 120 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: The fact that you'd been married for four years before 121 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: you sort of thought, hmm, actually, don't think this is 122 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: going to be for me. I mean I would say 123 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: that twenty six. I'm thinking what I was I was 124 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: going into rehabit twenty six. I mean I don't I 125 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: wasn't you know, I was not. Yeah, I wasn't having 126 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: any kinds of kids that I was. But twenty six 127 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: is quite young, so I'm wondering. So that's that's point 128 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: number one. But also, had you had a conversation with 129 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: with your husband? 130 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: Yes, so, yeah, I got marrim when I was twenty six, 131 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: because that's what you do, right, You find a man 132 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: and then and then you get married. And I mean 133 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: I wanted to get married, so that wasn't sure. And 134 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 2: we absolutely, I mean we had planned kids names we 135 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 2: had nine in place. 136 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting, So what how does one move 137 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: away from that? Or again, was the plant because kids names? 138 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: To be talking about kids' names signals intention, right, that is, 139 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: we intend to do this and we want to do this. 140 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: But to then get what was what? What? What was 141 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: your life? Were you completely sort of fulfilled and happy 142 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: in your life at thirty honestly? 143 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 3: Yes? 144 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And. 145 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 3: I think again just the realization that you get to 146 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: question the assumption that's made about how you should live 147 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 3: your life. 148 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: It doesn't happen. I mean obviously at twenty six. Sometimes 149 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 2: it doesn't happen at thirty. I mean, I'm sure I'm 150 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 2: going to be questioning assumptions until the day I die. 151 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: So I don't pretend to be like, you know, the 152 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: article of all you know wisdom. Yeah, but at City, 153 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 2: I was like, we started questioning how, you know, we 154 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: wanted to live our lives and the decisions you wanted 155 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: to make and the choices you wanted to make versus 156 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 2: the assumptions that society had kind of made on our 157 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: behalf that we just stepped into with. That's questioning kind 158 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 2: of your agency in that decision making process. 159 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: Had your husband said to you, But I do want 160 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: to have children. What what would that have what? What 161 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: would that have created? 162 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, that would have been tricky. And I 163 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 2: completely understand that there are situations where partners do change 164 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 2: their minds once they're married, on either side either do 165 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: wanting or not wanting, and I mean, I can only 166 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: imagine how complicated and tricky that must be. Yeah, very 167 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: thankfully we were on the same page. If we weren't, 168 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. Yeah. 169 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. You you mentioned that people who choose not to 170 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: have children often judge what has that looked like in 171 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: your own life, because there is an assumption. I mean, 172 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: I had my kids pretty late I had I had 173 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: my daughter when I turned thirty nine, and had my 174 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: son when I turned forty two, And so during my thirties, 175 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: the assumption was by people who didn't know me when 176 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: they just met me, that I had children, which was 177 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: funny because I never felt I never felt like a mother, 178 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: So when people would assume that I had children, I 179 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: was always quite shocked. I always felt like, I'm just 180 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: not giving off mummy vibes at all. It's so, but 181 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: then it wasn't that. It's that I was a woman 182 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: of a certain age. It wasn't about mummy vibes. It 183 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: was just the assumption that you must have children. And 184 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: when I said I didn't, people were shocked. So what 185 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: reactions do you get from people? 186 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 2: I think, because it's been quite a long time. I mean, 187 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: at work, people like they know, their concision is quite clear. 188 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: And with people I meet new people, fresh people, fresh 189 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 2: need people who don't yet you know, like you know 190 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: my dark solowty twisted history. There is still an element 191 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 2: of surprise in my friendship circle, my close friends. There 192 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 2: are two of us who don't have children. Everybody else does. 193 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: But of course they've been friends for years and years, 194 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 2: so they understand my decision. But yeah, of course, I 195 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: mean I am a woman of a certain age. I 196 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: have been married for about eleven years. So of course 197 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: the assumption is that, I mean, by this stage I 198 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 2: should have school growing children, let alone like children full stop. 199 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: I should be I don't know, pe kit after school 200 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: and lunchboxes and homework age children. And there are still 201 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 2: kind of like you know, a questioner, oh tankfully not 202 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 2: the but why which is nice because I am at 203 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 2: least I suppose fortunate to say that it's a choice 204 00:11:55,679 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 2: I'm making. But again, for those for whom it's not 205 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 2: a choice not to have children, what a heartbreaking, deeply personal, 206 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: like irresponsible question to ask. Yeah, I mean, full stop, yeah, 207 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: I agree, I agree. So yeah, at least I'm comfortable 208 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: and like, you know, can that that quite strong me 209 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: with that answer. But the person asking that question doesn't 210 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: know that, right, which is why again, to everyone listening, 211 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 2: that is not a question to be asked. 212 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: And I think that is such a such a valid point. 213 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: As well as somebody who who got to sort of 214 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: mid thirties and then realized after years of thinking I 215 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't have children and I didn't want children, and then 216 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: wanting them and conceiving very quickly. I can't imagine the 217 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: level of grief and trauma that one experiences when you 218 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: when the thing, the thing that you really want to do, 219 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: you're not able to do. Here's a if you're just 220 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: joining us, By the way, we're chatting to a Candice 221 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: Pressa who is talking about her decision to remain child free. 222 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: Happily child free had got married at twenty six, realized 223 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: by the age of thirty that actually, no, we don't 224 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: want to I don't want to student husband that want 225 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: to have children and how people have dealt with that 226 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: and the kind of external societal judgment pressure conversations that 227 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: that brings up. Here's a question for you, can is 228 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 1: is your decision? Is your choice absolute or was it 229 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: based on percentage? And what I mean by that was 230 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: when I realized that maybe, oh maybe maybe I would 231 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: like to have children, there was a point for me 232 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: where I kind of thought, if I don't, the regret 233 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: that I haven't will be greater than the feeling of 234 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: what am I trying to say? That I would end 235 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: up with regret that would usurp the having them, if 236 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: that makes sense. So I knew that even if I 237 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: even if I did, if I didn't, that would make 238 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: me sadder than than kind of I'm not being I'm 239 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: not clear. 240 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean. 241 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I mean, I took a melotone in 242 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: last night to sleep, and it's something is messed with me. 243 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: It's a perimenopause. It's clapping me for six it's oh, no, 244 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: bleak times ahead. Although I mean, you know, what could 245 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: you do? 246 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: Yeah? 247 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: So, so was it was your decision absolute? 248 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 3: It was? 249 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: That's so interesting? There is no so you won't weighing 250 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: up against a balance of. 251 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: It might be nice. No, no, it's it's a it's 252 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 2: a firm decision. There is no I mean again, these 253 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: magical hormones people telling me about my kick in in 254 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: a few months and suddenly make me desperate for children. 255 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 2: But as it stands, it is a very absolute, very 256 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 2: easy no if. But when decision for me, how. 257 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: Do you respond to somebody or how would you respond 258 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: to someone who says, oh, you regret it later? Because 259 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: the idea is is that we're all going to suddenly 260 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: become decrepit in our old age, and who's going to 261 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: look after it is? Doesn't it You're going to be 262 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: lonely old cat lady. That's the no one interesting that 263 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: I've never heard anyone talk about lonely old cat man. 264 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: But that's a conversation for another day. 265 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, the things I could 266 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 2: say that are not suitable. 267 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: For sure, Yeah exactly. 268 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I mean I think in general, living a 269 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 2: life under the pressure of decidst expectations of what they 270 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 2: think it should be is a wasted life. I mean, 271 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 2: if you just keep chasing the I mean, just like 272 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: you meet a man and your parents are public or 273 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 2: people like when are you getting married? And then when 274 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: are you having a children? And then like when's the 275 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: next one coming? I mean, the goalpost keep moving. There 276 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: is never there is never a take it off, you know, 277 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 2: be happy you're done. Now, we're going to leave you alone. 278 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: Set a way to live your life. That is what 279 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 2: it is. And yeah, truly I do stand firm in 280 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: that I don't want children, and I really wish that 281 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: it wasn't so much the prevailing factor by which we 282 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: judge the worth of a woman's life. 283 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 3: I know. 284 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: I mean, we're so much more. I mean, you are 285 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 2: so much more than a mother. 286 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, it's being without. 287 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: Children absolutely fulfilling and wonderful and successful, and your contribution 288 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 2: to society is so much more than just the fact 289 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: that you happen to also have children. 290 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: Honestly, being a mother is far is very far down 291 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: the list of things I do well exactly. 292 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: But it would your contribution to society have been meaningless 293 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: if you had not had children. 294 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: I know, I know somebody said to me when I 295 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: when I found out I was pregnant with my much 296 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: planned for daughter, it wasn't you know what I wasn't 297 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: we wanted to have children in there. And somebody said 298 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: to me, it's going to be the best thing you 299 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: ever do. And I took absolute umbrage to that. And 300 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: she meant it in a very sweet way, but the 301 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: way that I received it was maybe a bit skew. 302 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: But and I remember saying to her, I hope not 303 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: because I felt like suddenly everything and I was literally 304 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: at like a lawn. I was doing something like a 305 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: book event. You know, my first book had done really well. 306 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: I was middle of writing my second one. We'd just 307 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: run one in Radio award. All these things that meant 308 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: an enormous amount to me that I had, I'd spent years, 309 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: you know, crafting, you know, kind of perfecting a craft 310 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: and all of this thing that things that really meant 311 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: something to me, and the things that I had moved 312 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: through in my life to achieve those things. And then 313 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: suddenly it was like, Oh, now that I've got you know, 314 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: now that I've got knocked up, that's the thing that 315 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: that's the thing that's really gonna gonna people are going 316 00:17:58,400 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: to remember me by. 317 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 2: And I thought, God, I don't going to validate that's 318 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: going to. 319 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: Validate my existence that's going to make your your life 320 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: now worthwhile. And then the other thing being is that 321 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: had I known how life was going to be, you know, 322 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: I'm a solo parent, I'd never intended on that. That 323 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: wasn't that wasn't the part of the That wasn't part 324 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: of the deal. And not that you know I again 325 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: and the feeling to suddenly say, not that I regret 326 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: having my children, because I don't, but the caveat again. 327 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: But solo parenting is not for sissies. You know that 328 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: there is a level of hard that often usurps my enjoyment, 329 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: not my love, my enjoyment of motherhood. You know that 330 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: I can't get that. That's it now, that that's that's 331 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: the And it could be it could be that there's 332 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: a relationship breakdown, and it could be that your your 333 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: financial circumstances change, or it could be that you have, 334 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: you know, an epiphany in life that you want to 335 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: go and do something and realize that actually I can't 336 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: do that because you know that the situation doesn't allow. 337 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: There's any number of reasons why the idea of isn't 338 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: what you end. 339 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 2: Up with, As with anything in life, As with anything 340 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 2: in life, Yeah, so just I mean, if people want 341 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 2: to have children, my goodness, please go ahead. Like if 342 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,239 Speaker 2: that's something you want for yourself, absolutely, and if you 343 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 2: can't and you want to, my heart does break for you. 344 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 2: And I really hope that you get your dream. But 345 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: on the same side, one other, the side of the coin. 346 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 2: If it's not your dream, yeah, realize you don't have to. 347 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: I would love your choice, right, and I would love 348 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: for us to give more room as a society for 349 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: people to explore free from judgment and shame the possibility 350 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: that that might not be something that they want to do. 351 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: I was listening to a podcast at the SmartLess Podcast 352 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: the other day and Sean Hayes was talking about how 353 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: he and his husband and have kind of gone back 354 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: and forth, back and forth over having children, and what 355 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: they've decided is that because and they say, we both 356 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: we love kids, we love spending time with kids, but 357 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 1: because they're both not yes, let's one hundred percent do it, 358 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: they don't want to do it. And then like, it's 359 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: not that we don't like them, it's not that you know, 360 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: but because we're not both jumping up and down excited 361 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,719 Speaker 1: about it, they're like, well, why would we do that, 362 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: and why would we do that to a child that 363 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: we don't one hundred percent passionately want and think that 364 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: experience will fulfill us and be good for them. 365 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,360 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I mean I read something I mean Instagram 366 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 2: wisdom as a cliche for a reason. I mean, if 367 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: you are, especially a woman who doesn't follow a sewhi 368 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: traditional life path, then when else are you celebrated? If 369 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: it's not an engagement, part of your kitchen tea or 370 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 2: a wedding or your child's play ye, or you're funeral, 371 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 2: when else are you actually sent rated? And I mean 372 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 2: as a woman, I would love us to celebrate each 373 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 2: other more for milestones that aren't potentially traditional. Maybe it's 374 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: I mean freaking hierarchs last night. Yeah, that is a 375 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 2: moment to celebrate. Yeah, you've got a promotion at work. 376 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 2: That is a reason to celebrate you you know, and 377 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 2: it's a horrible relationship that is a reason to celebrate 378 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 2: and bring your community and your girlfriends together. You don't 379 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 2: have to wait until you know, a kitchen tea or 380 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 2: wedding or your child's first birthday. I think there is 381 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 2: a big gap for more celebration around maybe less traditional milestones. 382 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: This is and I think that's missing. 383 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: I agree, and this is this is this next question 384 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: might sound a little bit odd, but it comes. But 385 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: I hope you understand where it's coming from. And I'm 386 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: not saying that you don't. But do you like children? 387 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: And I say that because just to qualify again, because 388 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm just walking on a whole earn eventshells. 389 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: But I don't want it to be like, well do 390 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: you even like them? You know, what sort of a 391 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: horrible old crone are you that doesn't act? But because actually, 392 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: up until the age, up until the time that I 393 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: had my own children, I not to say I don't 394 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: like children, but spending time with a lot of young 395 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: children or any children was not in my top five, 396 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: top ten, top one hundred list of things to do. 397 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you, it's still not. I have 398 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: to do it by virtue of the fact that I've 399 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: got children and they have friends, and I like to 400 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: spend time with my own children, but just that kind 401 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: of you know, and nieces and nephews and you know, 402 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: familial but seeking out children or actively being like, oh, 403 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: would I rather go to the gym or go to 404 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: a museum on my you know with somebody or or 405 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: spend time with girlfriends, or would I rather go to 406 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: somebody's house where there's going to be ten kids screaming around. 407 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: I'll take the first option. Don't think that that makes 408 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: me a bad person or not a good woman. It's 409 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: just who I am. So that's why I ask the 410 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: question in that like, do you are there kids that 411 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: you spend time around? Do you enjoy that? Or are 412 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: you just someone who, like me, could could not be 413 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: around them and been perfectly happy. 414 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: So I haven't. I'm an only child, so I grew 415 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 2: up in a fairly a solitary child free existence, right, 416 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: so just extended family as well. I didn't grow up 417 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: around a lot of children. Very used to my own company. 418 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 2: So I mean, if we're looking to explain my choice, 419 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 2: I mean, yes, there are some not surprises. And of 420 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 2: my close circle of female friends, only one has a 421 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 2: young child who I've known since the time she was born, 422 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 2: so I also have a sample size of one, so 423 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: my child explosure is very limited. I might have changed 424 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 2: a happy once in my life, but it's not. Wow. 425 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: I never grew up with like you know, big picnics 426 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: of friends and all their kind of toddlers falling around 427 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 2: on the grass. Yeah, that's just not how my my 428 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 2: friendship circle so evolved. Yeah, to be honest, Yeah, I 429 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 2: mean one of my other very very good friends is 430 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 2: a mom of teenagers, and I only met them when 431 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 2: they were like twelve and fourteen. So no, I wouldn't 432 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 2: inherently seek out the company of children. No, I would 433 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: see you in the gym and we would live together. 434 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. And although although you say that, Candice, as you know, 435 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: I have seen you in the gym, and I've been 436 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: I've been too shy to come and say hello, which 437 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: I won't be doing now. I shall come and I 438 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: shall come in and cost you the next time that 439 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: I see you in the gym. But yeah, listen, I've 440 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: loved this conversation and I want to thank you for 441 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: your your honesty, and you're willing to speak on a 442 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: topic that is so often misconstrued misunderstood. Think, I think, 443 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: particularly from a saying, particularly from a from a woman's perspective. 444 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: I don't know actually that that's true, because I have 445 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: I've spoken to somebody before, a gentleman who went viral 446 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: when he posted about undergoing a vasectomy in his I 447 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: think either late twenties or early thirties, and people then 448 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: questioned his whole manhood, and he was like, this isn't weird. 449 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: It's just who I am, So I don't it's I 450 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 1: think it's people take issue for different reasons. For men, 451 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: it's that kind of the patriarchy and the spreading your seed, no, 452 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: and all of that kind of thing virility exactly exactly, 453 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: Whereas for women it's about what kind of you know, 454 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: what kind of shrivelled again shrivelled? I crone, are you that? 455 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: What kind of how selfish? Which is such a strange 456 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: thing to say, isn't it, because as a mom of 457 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: two with you know, a solo parent with frequent burnout? 458 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: What selfish? Actually? Is that the fact that often I 459 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: don't you know, I've brought children into the world in 460 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: a situation where I didn't know the relationship was going 461 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: to turn out that the way that it did, and 462 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: now my children maybe get less of me than I 463 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: had imagined that they would. I mean, I'm not saying, 464 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, obviously didn't do it on purpose, but that 465 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: the idea that you would be called selfish because you've 466 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: chosen not to bring children into you know, children that 467 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: were not wanted it into the world. Listen, I embrace 468 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: you in your child free life. I celebrate you. You 469 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: get to sleep when you like, you can travel when 470 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: you like, presumably, and I'll say when you like. Obviously 471 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: you don't. You know your life isn't completely devoid of responsibility, 472 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: but you know it's it's the choice that you've made. 473 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: And I love that for you. I love that you 474 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: have felt able to make that choice. And I'm sure 475 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: there is a generation of women I wonder if we're 476 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: moving out of it now more who didn't feel that way. 477 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, as a kind of wrapping up 478 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: of the segment, there is a number of I first 479 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: heard somebody say to me a few oh gosh, probably 480 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: about ten years ago, and is the it's the parent 481 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: of a very good friend of mine who told me 482 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: that if she could do her time again, and she 483 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: had three boys, if she could do it all again, 484 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: she wouldn't have children. And I remember at the time 485 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: thinking like, gosh, what an awful thing to say as 486 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: a mother. Now I understand exactly what she meant. It 487 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: had no bearing on her love for her children whatsoever. 488 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: I'm hearing more and more women not just of my 489 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: but of all ages saying the same thing. And that 490 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: can't be for nothing, can it? 491 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 2: And the honesty is admirable because I can only imagine 492 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 2: imagine the response that people and the judgment exactly. 493 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent, Candace. I'm gonna let you go 494 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: and rest it. What's your plan for today? Post high Rocks? 495 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 2: I have a cabin full of East Eggs which I 496 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 2: just wok for you, which I'll be enjoying. 497 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: In my high amolish those I love that gun, the bed, 498 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 1: oh good stuff. You deserve it. Candace, thanks very much 499 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: indeed for joining us. Lovely to have you with this. 500 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: Candace Pressa sharing with us her decision and the reasons 501 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: behind why she has decided to remain child free.